Fire Marvin Lewis!

[Snipe]

Seriously.

You can't fire the players, but you can fire the coach.

Marvin is a nice guy.

Marvin is 0-7 in the playoffs.

Last night is the straw that broke the camels back.

Either we fire him right now or next spring we sacrifice him to the Sun God. I am fine either way. Just thought Marvin might want a heads up.

I sat in the rain for hours and we finally had reached what I thought was a consequential victory. Then it was all ripped away. Is it Marvin's fault? I don't care about the answer to those questions. I want his head toppling down the pyramid while the blood is still spurting out. I am calling for the full Aztec on Marvin Lewis if he isn't willing to go quietly. And it has to be a public execution at this point just to exorcise the demons.

Bruce Coslet was a horrible coach. We didn't cut his head off. We didn't even fire him. Get that again. Coslet was never fired.

Things were so bad Coslet just up and quit. How many NFL coaches just up and quit? As far as I can tell, just Bruce Coslet. He didn't resign. The season wasn't even over. He just said, this place is a vortex of suck ass, and I for one cannot take it anymore. You cannot pay me enough to coach another game. Take this job and shove it, I am leaving town on the next plane and I am never coming back.

Now I might think in the future it may be beneficial to hunt Bruce down and give him the full Aztec as well. If things don't change as they say "Heads are gonna roll". We need to start with Marvin Lewis. DEAD! Might even have to find out where David Shula is hiding to exorcise all the demons.

Marvin is a good man. Because of that, I say we spare his wife and children. They don't have to go too, at least not at this point.

I am pissed. I was looking for a form to fill out to officially resign as a Bengal fan. My brother informed me that it wasn't that easy. I am not allowed to leave. Well if I am not allowed to leave then sweet Jesus heads have to roll.

After his head tumbles down the steps of the pyramid in the full Aztec, we need to impale his skull on a large pike. For full effect and (pour encourager les autres) we need to mount that mighty head speckled pike right outside the stadium for all to see.

You know how Clemson players lovingly touch the rock before games? I am thinking we can duplicate that and have an honest to goodness tradition right here is the Queen City.

I want his head on a pike, and I want it now.

[UCGRAD4X]

Seriously.

You can't fire the players, but you can fire the coach.

Marvin is a nice guy.

Marvin is 0-7 in the playoffs.

Last night is the straw that broke the camels back.

Either we fire him right now or next spring we sacrifice him to the Sun God. I am fine either way. Just thought Marvin might want a heads up.

I sat in the rain for hours and we finally had reached what I thought was a consequential victory. Then it was all ripped away. Is it Marvin's fault? I don't care about the answer to those questions. I want his head toppling down the pyramid while the blood is still spurting out. I am calling for the full Aztec on Marvin Lewis if he isn't willing to go quietly. And it has to be a public execution at this point just to exorcise the demons.

Bruce Coslet was a horrible coach. We didn't cut his head off. We didn't even fire him. Get that again. Coslet was never fired.

Things were so bad Coslet just up and quit. How many NFL coaches just up and quit? As far as I can tell, just Bruce Coslet. He didn't resign. The season wasn't even over. He just said, this place is a vortex of suck ass, and I for one cannot take it anymore. You cannot pay me enough to coach another game. Take this job and shove it, I am leaving town on the next plane and I am never coming back.

Now I might think in the future it may be beneficial to hunt Bruce down and give him the full Aztec as well. If things don't change as they say "Heads are gonna roll". We need to start with Marvin Lewis. DEAD! Might even have to find out where David Shula is hiding to exorcise all the demons.

Marvin is a good man. Because of that, I say we spare his wife and children. They don't have to go too, at least not at this point.

I am pissed. I was looking for a form to fill out to officially resign as a Bengal fan. My brother informed me that it wasn't that easy. I am not allowed to leave. Well if I am not allowed to leave then sweet Jesus heads have to roll.

After his head tumbles down the steps of the pyramid in the full Aztec, we need to impale his skull on a large pike. For full effect and (pour encourager les autres) we need to mount that mighty head speckled pike right outside the stadium for all to see.

You know how Clemson players lovingly touch the rock before games? I am thinking we can duplicate that and have an honest to goodness tradition right here is the Queen City.

I want his head on a pike, and I want it now.

So, just to clarify, Snipe is not in favor of Marvin or his decapitated body coaching the Bengals hence-forth.

[xu82]

So, just to clarify, Snipe is not in favor of Marvin or his decapitated body coaching the Bengals hence-forth.

It does kinda sound that way....hard to tell for sure.

[waggy]

I really don't care about winning anymore. I just want to maim as many Steelers as possible now. Give me 22 Vontaze Burfict's, and keep the refs at home. They're worthless anyway.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Starting off the post "yeah, I agree, this should be the end of Marvins tenure in Cincy". Then I get to the end of the post:

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120921164818/dragonage/images/thumb/2/2a/Anchorman-well-that-escalated-quickly.jpg/500px-Anchorman-well-that-escalated-quickly.jpg

[X-Fan]

I am pissed. I was looking for a form to fill out to officially resign as a Bengal fan. My brother informed me that it wasn't that easy. I am not allowed to leave. Well if I am not allowed to leave then sweet Jesus heads have to roll.


Actually you can leave. I was a diehard Bungles fan through the "Lost Years".

Called for Mike Brown to hire a GM for years. He never did but lucked out hiring Marvin Lewis.

Was there when Kimo took out Carsons knee.

There when almost every Bungle was arrested over a 4 years span.

Watched MB continue to sign low character guy after low character guy. Why? Because he LOVES a bargain. Because the franchise was such a joke no player in their right mind or with ANY other option would come as a Free Agent.

Marvin made them respectable. Then came the last straw for me. MB re-signed Chris Henry for a THIRD time. Said he believes in 2nd chances. BS! MB believes in ONE thing: Making money. Not winning, or investing in the franchise/city/county. Not appreciating that the city/county bends over backwards for his team and foots the bill on ridiculous items the team should be paying for. MB will continue to do the BARE MINIMUM needed to keep the money flowing and the fans off his back. He does not give one eff about winning.

So, after Chris Henry was signed I said "That's it." I divorced the Bungles in 2007 and will not root for them again until Mike Brown is dead. I highly recommend it as it's been one of my best fan decisions ever. #NFLFreeAgent

[bleedXblue]

Agree on all fronts with MB. He wont change a thing with Lewis. He's a loser. Has been and will always be. I do feel sorry for Bengals fans. Its such a great product and many of us have been rooting for the team for decades. Its as plain as the nose on your face. Marvin cant coach in game and he lacks the toughness needed to control his players. Nothings gonna change. Nothing.

[bjf123]

I'll be shocked as hell if MB fires Marvin. He's taken the team to the playoffs five years in a row. He tied the franchise record for wins this year. The fact that he also has the record for most post season games without a win is irrelevant to MB. What I'd like to see is Marvin moved into the GM role and a new head coach brought in. Maybe it's Hue Jackson.

Unfortunately, I think this year was the Bengals' shot at something special. If Dalton doesn't get hurt, I think we win in Denver and get the 1 seed. The team is going to lose too many players to free agency and won't replace them with anyone special, so making the playoffs next year will be much tougher.


Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[X-Fan]

This is completely unsurprising: Bengals not planning to make coaching change, sources say (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14542549/cincinnati-bengals-not-planning-fire-marvin-lewis?ex_cid=espnfb)

[LadyMuskie]

We sucked when Shula was our coach. We sucked when Coslet was our coach. We sucked when LeBeau was our coach. We not only sucked, but also kept criminal defense attorneys rolling in dough under Lewis the first few years. Now we don't suck quite as bad, but we still lose a lot of games we should win and we can't buy our way into a second playoff game. The only thing that has remained a constant through all of this: The Brown Family. Lewis isn't a strong coach, but Mike Brown doesn't want a strong coach. He'd never hire a coach like Belichek, for example, because then he'd have to defer some of his authority to said coach. So, we're stuck with mamby pamby Marvin Lewis who's just good enough to get us to the playoffs, but has very little control over his players. So, our two options as Bengals fans are either to live with the mind-numbingly bad team that we had through the nineties, or watch the Bengals get thisclose to something special and then piss it all away by underachieving or being stupid. Choose wisely.

[Tardy Turtle]

I really don't care about winning anymore. I just want to maim as many Steelers as possible now. Give me 22 Vontaze Burfict's, and keep the refs at home. They're worthless anyway.

I can hardly imagine how proud Baby Jeebus must be of you right now!

[Cheesehead]

If you keep Lewis you are saying never winning a playoff game is acceptable. I guess that's the Bengals way and the Mike Brown way but it's not acceptable for the rest of the NFL. I am a Packer fan and I can tell you with 100% certainty Mike McCarthy would not have a job if did what Marvin has done.

Enough is enough.

[X-Fan]

If you keep Lewis you are saying never winning a playoff game is acceptable. I guess that's the Bengals way and the Mike Brown way but it's not acceptable for the rest of the NFL. I am a Packer fan and I can tell you with 100% certainty Mike McCarthy would not have a job if did what Marvin has done.

Enough is enough.
1901
YES! That is EXACTLY what I'm saying!

[Masterofreality]

One thing you can count on is that Hue Jackson is gone. That is a big loss for the staff.

[bleedXblue]

One thing you can count on is that Hue Jackson is gone. That is a big loss for the staff.

Why?

We won before him and we'll win after him.

[Masterofreality]

Why?

We won before him and we'll win after him.

"Won" is a relative term. He did a better job with Dalton than any of his previous coaches....and still no playoff win. Did a pretty good job bringing MCCarron along too.

I love the way people discount the important role of assistant coaches. If you doubt that, just look at how Jim O'Neil screwed up the highest paid defense in the NFL for the Browns this year. Hue Jackson can coach. Hell, he went 8-8 with a tumult racked Raiders team, then stupid Davis fired him.

The Bengals will miss that guy. Trust me.

[Juice]

"Won" is a relative term. He did a better job with Dalton than any of his previous coaches....and still no playoff win. Did a pretty good job bringing MCCarron along too.

I love the way people discount the important role of assistant coaches. If you doubt that, just look at how Jim O'Neil screwed up the highest paid defense in the NFL for the Browns this year. Hue Jackson can coach. Hell, he went 8-8 with a tumult racked Raiders team, then stupid Davis fired him.

The Bengals will miss that guy. Trust me.

Hue is really good.

Recent Raiders' season:



2003 2003 NFL AFC West 3rd 4 12 0
2004 2004 NFL AFC West 4th 5 11 0
2005 2005 NFL AFC West 4th 4 12 0
2006 2006 NFL AFC West 4th 2 14 0
2007 2007 NFL AFC West 4th 4 12 0
2008 2008 NFL AFC West 3rd 5 11 0
2009 2009 NFL AFC West 3rd 5 11 0
2010 2010 NFL AFC West 3rd 8 8 0
2011 2011 NFL AFC West 3rd 8 8 0
2012 2012 NFL AFC West 3rd 4 12 0
2013 2013 NFL AFC West 4th 4 12 0
2014 2014 NFL AFC West 4th 3 13 0
2015 2015 NFL AFC West 3rd 7 9 0

Two of these seasons aren't like the others. Hue was involved in one of them.

[gladdenguy]

One thing you can count on is that Hue Jackson is gone. That is a big loss for the staff.

I for one think Hue Jackson was terrible in the 2nd half of the year. His play calling was not good (the 2 point conversion was disgusting up 16-15). Dalton with his weapons will be just fine regardless of who is calling plays. Go ahead Hue.....don't let the door hit ya in the ass.

[sirthought]

I can accept not winning a playoff game. Each separate loss has had it's faults, but it's the players on the field who are screwing up.
I prefer to have more wins than losses throughout the entire season, and that is more the result of the coaching staff planning and preparation.

I wouldn't blame a fan for not wanting to support it, but after going through what the franchise has had with losing, I'd say these last few years have been enjoyable, although disappointing that they haven't gone further. Not sure that that disappointment is worth chucking it all and starting over with the risk of going back to what here before.

[Juice]

I for one think Hue Jackson was terrible in the 2nd half of the year. His play calling was not good (the 2 point conversion was disgusting up 16-15). Dalton with his weapons will be just fine regardless of who is calling plays. Go ahead Hue.....don't let the door hit ya in the ass.

Marvin Jones and Mohammed Sanu are both free agents. Eiffert was always hurt. The weapons are good if they are there to actually play for the Bengals.

[DoubleD86]

I can accept not winning a playoff game. Each separate loss has had it's faults, but it's the players on the field who are screwing up.
I prefer to have more wins than losses throughout the entire season, and that is more the result of the coaching staff planning and preparation.

I wouldn't blame a fan for not wanting to support it, but after going through what the franchise has had with losing, I'd say these last few years have been enjoyable, although disappointing that they haven't gone further. Not sure that that disappointment is worth chucking it all and starting over with the risk of going back to what here before.

This is my feeling about Marvin Lewis. For the most part, I don't think Marvin has been the issue in most of the losses. Yes, an argument saying 0-7 has to reflect on him to some extent is likely true, but in the same token most of them have been on the players (imo).

Give me someone who gets his team in the playoffs every year and I am happy. One way or the other, a playoff game win will come if you are always there. This just feels like an assumption that a team is supposed to take the next step and if not, move on. If Marvin starts winning one playoff game every year, how many years until it is "make the AFC Championship or fire Marvin" or "Make the Super Bowl or fire Marvin"? I liken it to the Eagles with Andy Reid. They fired him because he wasn't winning enough in the playoffs. Since he is gone, look where the Eagles have been and look where the Chiefs have been. A good coach puts their team in the playoffs in the position to win, give me that opportunity to make a run every year.

[blobfan]

It doesn't matter who's coach as long as the team's General Manager has a career-long history of losing.

[bleedXblue]

"Won" is a relative term. He did a better job with Dalton than any of his previous coaches....and still no playoff win. Did a pretty good job bringing MCCarron along too.

I love the way people discount the important role of assistant coaches. If you doubt that, just look at how Jim O'Neil screwed up the highest paid defense in the NFL for the Browns this year. Hue Jackson can coach. Hell, he went 8-8 with a tumult racked Raiders team, then stupid Davis fired him.

The Bengals will miss that guy. Trust me.

Winning is not relative. It's pretty damn black and white. I not discounting assistant coaches, I'm discounting Hue Jackson.

[bleedXblue]

hue is really good.

Recent raiders' season:



Two of these seasons aren't like the others. Hue was involved in one of them.

lol!

[D-West & PO-Z]

This is my feeling about Marvin Lewis. For the most part, I don't think Marvin has been the issue in most of the losses. Yes, an argument saying 0-7 has to reflect on him to some extent is likely true, but in the same token most of them have been on the players (imo).

Give me someone who gets his team in the playoffs every year and I am happy. One way or the other, a playoff game win will come if you are always there. This just feels like an assumption that a team is supposed to take the next step and if not, move on. If Marvin starts winning one playoff game every year, how many years until it is "make the AFC Championship or fire Marvin" or "Make the Super Bowl or fire Marvin"? I liken it to the Eagles with Andy Reid. They fired him because he wasn't winning enough in the playoffs. Since he is gone, look where the Eagles have been and look where the Chiefs have been. A good coach puts their team in the playoffs in the position to win, give me that opportunity to make a run every year.

Andy Reid made it top like 4 straight NFC championship games and 1 SB, so to compare Marvin Lewis/ the Bengals to him/ the Eagles is silly. The Eagles went a different direction and they stopped winning playoff games (the whole point of football), if the Bengals went a different direction and they continued to not win playoff games then nothing is lost. Even if they went another direction and missed the playoffs still nothing would be lost because either way they werent winning in the playoffs.

I guess it depends on your goal for your team, is it to win in the regular season just to make it entertaining for the fans and keep them happy in spite of not being able to win in the playoffs or is it to try an win playoff games? Some Bengals fans seem so scare of getting rid of Marvin because they dont want to fall into irrelevance that they are sacrificing a chance to get a coach who cant actually get them somewhere in the playoffs. Is a new coach guaranteed to do so? No but at this point Marvin hasnt shown anything to make anyone believe he can lead a team to a playoff win has he?

And when you ask this:

If Marvin starts winning one playoff game every year, how many years until it is "make the AFC Championship or fire Marvin" or "Make the Super Bowl or fire Marvin"?


What is wrong with it becoming that? It should become that question next after a playoff win, that would be the natural progression. Why would/should Marvin get a pass from increase expectations? That makes no sense to me.

[Xville]

This is my feeling about Marvin Lewis. For the most part, I don't think Marvin has been the issue in most of the losses. Yes, an argument saying 0-7 has to reflect on him to some extent is likely true, but in the same token most of them have been on the players (imo).

Give me someone who gets his team in the playoffs every year and I am happy. One way or the other, a playoff game win will come if you are always there. This just feels like an assumption that a team is supposed to take the next step and if not, move on. If Marvin starts winning one playoff game every year, how many years until it is "make the AFC Championship or fire Marvin" or "Make the Super Bowl or fire Marvin"? I liken it to the Eagles with Andy Reid. They fired him because he wasn't winning enough in the playoffs. Since he is gone, look where the Eagles have been and look where the Chiefs have been. A good coach puts their team in the playoffs in the position to win, give me that opportunity to make a run every year.

It doesn't have to. He has already been there 7 times and not won one. The law of averages doesn't apply here.

[XU 87]

. I am not discounting assistant coaches, I'm discounting Hue Jackson.

Why? The guy was a very good coordinator. There's a reason so many teams are interviewing him.

[sirthought]

Again, I'd prefer to see more wins than losses week after week throughout a season, than get bent out of shape about one or two games late in the season.

Sure, I'd like for them to win a Super Bowl. But not as much as I hated the time when the team lost week after week for years.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Again, I'd prefer to see more wins than losses week after week throughout a season, than get bent out of shape about one or two games late in the season.

Sure, I'd like for them to win a Super Bowl. But not as much as I hated the time when the team lost week after week for years.

This is not directed at you specifically and no offense intended, but that just seems like such a loser attitude. Seems though that a lot of Bengals fans feel the same way. It isnt just one or two games at the end of the year, it is the playoffs and the winning in those is the only thing that really should matter.

I am a Giants fan (the ultimate boom or bust team over the last 8 years) and the Giants have won 2 SB's since 07-08 season and almost every other season they missed the playoffs, save I think 2.

While it sucks the Giants have been out of the playoffs so much there is no way I would trade those 2 SB wins for seeing my team instead make the playoffs every year.

[LA Muskie]

I understand that Marvin has been able to successfully coach the Bengals to the playoffs. I also understand that his playoff record is pretty abysmal. My question -- and I don't care enough about it to do the research myself, but I care just enough to pose the question -- is whether that is a statistical anomaly or rooted more deeply in performance. What has the Bengals regular season record against playoff teams been the last few years? Is he good at beating bad teams, but bad at beating good teams? Again, I honestly have no idea...

[Xville]

I understand that Marvin has been able to successfully coach the Bengals to the playoffs. I also understand that his playoff record is pretty abysmal. My question -- and I don't care enough about it to do the research myself, but I care just enough to pose the question -- is whether that is a statistical anomaly or rooted more deeply in performance. What has the Bengals regular season record against playoff teams been the last few years? Is he good at beating bad teams, but bad at beating good teams? Again, I honestly have no idea...

So I looked up the last three years because I didn't care to do anymore than that and I think that gives us enough of a conclusion.

2015

3-4 against playoff teams
9-0 non-playoff teams

2014

4-4 playoff teams
7-1 non-playoff teams

2013

4-0 playoff teams
7-5 non-playoff teams

So maybe its just the sphincter gets a little tight when the playoffs come around who knows....One of these years they beat the Chargers toward the end of the regular season, and in the playoffs they got manhandled.

Some of these years in the playoffs they have had injuries, but good teams overcome these even against playoff teams...hell look at the Patriots.

[sirthought]

This is not directed at you specifically and no offense intended, but that just seems like such a loser attitude. Seems though that a lot of Bengals fans feel the same way. It isnt just one or two games at the end of the year, it is the playoffs and the winning in those is the only thing that really should matter.

I am a Giants fan (the ultimate boom or bust team over the last 8 years) and the Giants have won 2 SB's since 07-08 season and almost every other season they missed the playoffs, save I think 2.

While it sucks the Giants have been out of the playoffs so much there is no way I would trade those 2 SB wins for seeing my team instead make the playoffs every year.

I get that it's the playoffs and you should want your team to win at all costs…BUT this is just a game and a manufactured system designed for entertainment. Each match is it's own challenge no matter where you are in the process. If you want to take it more seriously than that, then that's your problem.

I was a huge XU hoops fan even when the team wasn't winning as big as they do now, or playing the biggest schedule. If the game is fun and I can learn about and root for the players involved, then I'll follow it.

If you only want to root for someone who can win in the playoffs year after year, then who's losing now?

[LA Muskie]

Thanks Xville. That's very helpful. What I read into that is that Marvin is pretty damn good at not losing to bad teams -- especially in the last 2 years -- but about .500 against good teams. Which frankly isn't a bad percentage against good teams. I feel like he's probably horribly "unlucky" (in KenPom terms). Even if they were generally the lower-seeded team, they still should probably be no worse than 2-5 in their 1st games.

[Masterofreality]

Looking more and more like Hue will be Head Coaching on the beautiful North Coast of America. Hmmm. RG3 showing up too?

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Hue, or anyone for that matter, would be a complete idiot to accept the head coaching job for the Browns. On the bright side he could come back and again be the OC in 2-3 years.

[Masterofreality]

Hue, or anyone for that matter, would be a complete idiot to accept the head coaching job for the Browns. On the bright side he could come back and again be the OC in 2-3 years.

As idiot as anyone was for accepting the Bengals coaching job? For a TWENTY year period from 1991 to 2010, the Bengals had exactly two, that's TWO winning seasons with 4 other .500 seasons. For any Bengals fan to talk about someone not taking a coaching job because of the franchise, is very, very rich.

The Bengals can't even blame their former idiot owner for moving the original franchise- the same idiot owner that fired the guy that started the Bengals. Nope. All the same people in the same town. Well done.

[XU 87]

Given other choices, there are other NFL jobs out there right now I would take over the Browns' job. That said, are they going to hire a coach before they hire a GM? That seems kind of stupid and ass backwards.

[bleedXblue]

Looking more and more like Hue will be Head Coaching on the beautiful North Coast of America. Hmmm. RG3 showing up too?

He isn't taking that job. If he does, he's a fool.

[Masterofreality]

Given other choices, there are other NFL jobs out there right now I would take over the Browns' job. That said, are they going to hire a coach before they hire a GM? That seems kind of stupid and ass backwards.

That was already decided. They are.

[Masterofreality]

He isn't taking that job. If he does, he's a fool.

'49ers have dropped out because Browns and Hue are close to a deal.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I get that it's the playoffs and you should want your team to win at all costs…BUT this is just a game and a manufactured system designed for entertainment. Each match is it's own challenge no matter where you are in the process. If you want to take it more seriously than that, then that's your problem.

I was a huge XU hoops fan even when the team wasn't winning as big as they do now, or playing the biggest schedule. If the game is fun and I can learn about and root for the players involved, then I'll follow it.

If you only want to root for someone who can win in the playoffs year after year, then who's losing now?

I was actually going to reference XU because I thought that might be used. Difference is this is the pro's and every team in the pro's has an equal opportunity and chance to win it all and lots of teams go from being terrible to the best in any given year.

College is completely different, there are really only a handful of teams that can realistically expect to win year in and year out. Luckily XU has progressed to the point of getting closer to that category but before they started getting there it was fun to see them just make the tourney and win a game or two because I never realistically expected it to be possible to be much more than that.

Apples and oranges.

[X-band '01]

Hue, or anyone for that matter, would be a complete idiot to accept the head coaching job for the Browns. On the bright side he could come back and again be the OC in 2-3 years.

That's okay - he can return after he and his GM are inevitably fired in 2 years.

[XU 87]

That was already decided. They are.

That just seems a poor way of doing things. Most teams would let his future boss (the future GM) have some say in the hire.

[bleedXblue]

That just seems a poor way of doing things. Most teams would let his future boss (the future GM) have some say in the hire.

Can they please hire Marvin?

[XU 87]

Can they please hire Marvin?

If we can compare pre and post Marvin, Marvin has done a great job here.

So be careful what you wish for.

[Masterofreality]

That just seems a poor way of doing things. Most teams would let his future boss (the future GM) have some say in the hire.

Haslam is trying something different. They hired "Moneyball" analytic guy Paul DePodesta from the Mets and he with another analytic guy Sashi Brown and the new "GM" hire-who is planned to be an "Eyeball Talent Expert" will basically be a GM by Committee. What the hell. How much worse could it work? Hue would also have final say so over roster spots.

if it works, it's revolutionary, but if not, well, we suck anyway.

[XU 87]

Hue would have final say over the roster? What is Hue's experience and history in drafting and player development?

[Masterofreality]

Hue would have final say over the roster? What is Hue's experience and history in drafting and player development?

Should have said "Active Roster".
Hue will have input in drafts prep, but won't be actually picking the players. He would have final say so over who is cut and who is kept after roster is assembled.

[LA Muskie]

Given other choices, there are other NFL jobs out there right now I would take over the Browns' job. That said, are they going to hire a coach before they hire a GM? That seems kind of stupid and ass backwards.
They already announced they are hiring the coach first, and that the coach will be on the GM selection committee. GM's are basically being marginalized. Given the absurdly short leash new coaches now are on (2-3 years, sometimes just 1), they all want personnel control. And of course a boatload of money. So coaches are now constructing their own teams, with GM's primarily being reduced to contract negotiators/salary cap managers. And given the proliferation of team presidents and/or active owners, all but the a few of the most powerful GM's have little by way of decision-making authority as well.

[D-West & PO-Z]

They already announced they are hiring the coach first, and that the coach will be on the GM selection committee. GM's are basically being marginalized. Given the absurdly short leash new coaches now are on (2-3 years, sometimes just 1), they all want personnel control. And of course a boatload of money. So coaches are now constructing their own teams, with GM's primarily being reduced to contract negotiators/salary cap managers. And given the proliferation of team presidents and/or active owners, all but the a few of the most powerful GM's have little by way of decision-making authority as well.

Can someone please take away Jerry Reese's decision making power? Please?

The Giants should have canned him instead of Coughlin.

[XU 87]

Interesting concept- the new head coach gets to have input on who is boss will be. We'll see if this works, but it seems a strange way of doing things.

I will add- I think Hue Jackson will be a good head coach. I just question how much input a new head coach with one year of head coaching experience should have over picking the GM and how much control (as opposed to input) he should have over personnel issues.

[Xpectations]

'49ers have dropped out because Browns and Hue are close to a deal.

Hue's family did not want to go all the way back out to the West Coast again if they had alternatives.

[scoscox]

Andy Reid made it top like 4 straight NFC championship games and 1 SB, so to compare Marvin Lewis/ the Bengals to him/ the Eagles is silly. The Eagles went a different direction and they stopped winning playoff games (the whole point of football), if the Bengals went a different direction and they continued to not win playoff games then nothing is lost. Even if they went another direction and missed the playoffs still nothing would be lost because either way they werent winning in the playoffs.

I guess it depends on your goal for your team, is it to win in the regular season just to make it entertaining for the fans and keep them happy in spite of not being able to win in the playoffs or is it to try an win playoff games? Some Bengals fans seem so scare of getting rid of Marvin because they dont want to fall into irrelevance that they are sacrificing a chance to get a coach who cant actually get them somewhere in the playoffs. Is a new coach guaranteed to do so? No but at this point Marvin hasnt shown anything to make anyone believe he can lead a team to a playoff win has he?

And when you ask this:

If Marvin starts winning one playoff game every year, how many years until it is "make the AFC Championship or fire Marvin" or "Make the Super Bowl or fire Marvin"?


What is wrong with it becoming that? It should become that question next after a playoff win, that would be the natural progression. Why would/should Marvin get a pass from increase expectations? That makes no sense to me.

Because success in the NFL is often the result of good coaching and organizational structure. Excellence is fragile in the NFL. Something could definitely be lost if the Bengals got rid of him. I like getting to the playoffs and having a good team every year and would rather not go back to the lions, browns, and raiders fraternity of awful. When Marvin got here, people were beyond excited to even go .500. It's a little ridiculous to be honest that Marvin has to face this scrutiny every year, but has continued to improve every year, despite losing coordinators and completely overhauling the roster multiple times. The Bengals have been lucky to have him, so unless Bill Belichick suddenly gets an urge to take on the Cincinnati job, I don't see how the Bengals could justify going in any other direction. Remember too that we lost our starting quarterback three weeks before the playoffs and put up the best regular season in franchise history. The pieces are there and the wins will continue to come for the foreseeable future.

[paulxu]

You don't need a new coach in Cleveland.

What you need is............a Streetcar!

http://www.clevelandstreetcar.org/


Show your support for Streetcars in Cleveland.

This Saturday is the Fist Public meeting to discuss the Transit on the West 25th st corridor.

I don't know what a "Fist" Public meeting is...and don't think I really want to know.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It's a little ridiculous to be honest that Marvin has to face this scrutiny every year, but has continued to improve every year, despite losing coordinators and completely overhauling the roster multiple times.

HA! Tell that to the two time Super Bowl winning, future HOF coach that just got run out of NY. He would die to have the "scrutiny" Marvin has to go through. So would Andy Reid.

The game is about winning championships, obviously only one team can do that every year so I would never be one to say a season is a failure or waste unless you win it all, but how many years/chances do you give a guy to win A SINGLE PLAYOFF GAME? Every year it is a new excuse for the guy. It has gone from young players, to injuries, to blaming the players for not getting it done, to the players having a total meltdown and penalties, and refs.

Serious question, is there a number of years or chances or first round losses that would make enough enough for you? If the Bengals have a winning record the next 3 years and make the playoffs each of those years and go 0-3, does Marvin still get to keep his job? Or if this happens again next year is he done? Or the next? Is 0-10 the limit? 0-8? Or is there no limit as long as he wins in the regular season and gets the Bengals to the playoffs?

[scoscox]

Also, Marvin's relationship with Mike Brown is a huge deal. The trust he's built up in the organization is so important, but D-West is right in that I (and other fans I'm sure) are scared of letting him go. Why wouldn't we be? Good coaches are hard to find and it's a small fraternity. Paul Brown dominated every level of football he touched for 40 years. A good coach is probably the most valuable asset a team can have for sustained success.

[scoscox]

HA! Tell that to the two time Super Bowl winning, future HOF coach that just got run out of NY. He would die to have the "scrutiny" Marvin has to go through. So would Andy Reid.

The game is about winning championships, obviously only one team can do that every year so I would never be one to say a season is a failure or waste unless you win it all, but how many years/chances do you give a guy to win A SINGLE PLAYOFF GAME? Every year it is a new excuse for the guy. It has gone from young players, to injuries, to blaming the players for not getting it done, to the players having a total meltdown and penalties, and refs.

Serious question, is there a number of years or chances or first round losses that would make enough enough for you? If the Bengals have a winning record the next 3 years and make the playoffs each of those years and go 0-3, does Marvin still get to keep his job? Or if this happens again next year is he done? Or the next? Is 0-10 the limit? 0-8? Or is there no limit as long as he wins in the regular season and gets the Bengals to the playoffs?

That's true and the consensus on both of their firings was that they were inexplicable. People around the league were wondering what was going through both organizations heads at the time, in regards to Coughlin and Reid. The 49ers as well when they got rid of Jim Harbaugh. It seems that fans are quickly spoiled in the NFL.

Back to edit when I read your full post. I would say if he doesn't win in the next two years I could justify the Bengals getting rid of him, just because this team is so good that if they were to choke in the next few years, it might start to feel more and more like Marvin had maxed out his potential, but up to this point he has improved the team and organization every year. The Bengals haven't even been to the Super Bowl since 1988 so I think you're actually being a little ridiculous when you compare those situations to the Bengals. Still, I have a pretty good feeling the Bengals will be winning a lot of playoff games in the next few years and this conversation won't matter.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Also, Marvin's relationship with Mike Brown is a huge deal. The trust he's built up in the organization is so important, but D-West is right in that I (and other fans I'm sure) are scared of letting him go. Why wouldn't we be? Good coaches are hard to find and it's a small fraternity. Paul Brown dominated every level of football he touched for 40 years. A good coach is probably the most valuable asset a team can have for sustained success.

Because you have a talented team that has no business not having won a playoff game sometime is the last 5 years. Because even if you hired a new coach and he didnt win right away you would be no less close to the ultimate goal of a championship. Because once you know you have a guy who cant (for whatever reasons) win in the playoffs why not take a chance to find one who can?

[D-West & PO-Z]

That's true and the consensus on both of their firings was that they were inexplicable. People around the league were wondering what was going through both organizations heads at the time, in regards to Coughlin and Reid. The 49ers as well when they got rid of Jim Harbaugh. It seems that fans are quickly spoiled in the NFL.

To be fair to the Giants organization they 100% needed change. They havent been to the playoffs since winning it all in 2011 season. I just think they fired the wrong guy, should have been the GM. I do think Coughlin's age had a lot to do with it too though.

And to be honest I think just as many people are wondering what is going on in the heads of the Bengals organizations keeping Marvin year after year.

[sirthought]

The overall track record needs to be taken into account versus just playoff record.
It's one thing if the team is failing consistently and never improving, but this is a team which had major issues despite having the highest paid QB in the NFL.

That QB left, we got Andy Dalton and AJ Green, and you can argue that performance has improved year after year since then.

I could see all kinds of scenarios that would be better than Cincinnati's, but those are a lot of "what ifs."

[sirthought]

Around the Horn discusses the fall of the Bengals. Most of them find no fault with Marvin Lewis.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5WVoUyFaeY

[Cheesehead]

Around the Horn discusses the fall of the Bengals. Most of them find no fault with Marvin Lewis.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5WVoUyFaeY
And?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Looking more and more like Hue will be Head Coaching on the beautiful North Coast of America. Hmmm. RG3 showing up too?

Hue being interviewed by the Giants. Would have to think if they offer he'd prefer that situation over Cleveland.

[RoseyMuskie]

I believe the truth with Lewis lies somewhere in between both sides of the argument. I'm a firm believer that setting a goal of the playoffs, and letting everything else play its course is a reasonable expectation for an NFL. We saw the oddities that occurred this past weekend once the "tournament" started.

That being said, the Lewis regime feels similar to that of Oliver Purnell's regime at Dayton or Clemson.

As an outsider, I'd probably say it's time to move on from Lewis, but the other side of the coin is just about equally as valid. I think Lewis has a great eye for talent, but his X's and O's seem lacking at times.

[DoubleD86]

I believe the truth with Lewis lies somewhere in between both sides of the argument. I'm a firm believer that setting a goal of the playoffs, and letting everything else play its course is a reasonable expectation for an NFL. We saw the oddities that occurred this past weekend once the "tournament" started.

That being said, the Lewis regime feels similar to that of Oliver Purnell's regime at Dayton or Clemson.

As an outsider, I'd probably say it's time to move on from Lewis, but the other side of the coin is just about equally as valid. I think Lewis has a great eye for talent, but his X's and O's seem lacking at times.

The beginning of your point is my feeling too. I don't agree with the Championship or bust way of evaluating a team, and it seems to be way too prevalent in American sports. Things are way too gray to be so black and white about it. If you don't think the past 5-10 years has been better than the 20 years previous to that, I just can't agree. Whether it's your intention or not, saying winning in the playoffs is all that matters means you are arguing the last 30 years are all the same. To me, that is just ridiculous. There can be differing levels of success and evaluating those differing levels is important.

Plus, as was shown earlier, it isn't like Marvin can't beat playoff teams. I know 7 games is getting up there, but each game is a volatile, random SSS and I'd rather have a team in the top 3 of the AFC in the playoffs each year and take the chances of his playoff record improving than most alternatives. No, I don't think Marvin is the best coach in the league or irreplaceable. But I think he is better than a whole hell of a lot of alternatives and I'm happy staying with him because I don't believe he is so terribly bad at playoff coaching that he becomes an incredible net negative. Make the playoff each year and he will at least get lucky and win one.

[scoscox]

Couldn't agree more. Almost exactly how I feel about it. Also, this was one of the first years the Bengals were in the playoffs, where I really think they were a definitively better team, meaning I expected them to win and go a few rounds, so in one way this was the hardest loss, especially after we appeared to have it locked up. Losing our starting quarterback hurt that notion, also.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Make the playoff each year and he will at least get lucky and win one.

That is quite the standard for the head coach of a team.

It has to pain Bengals fans to see several coordinators leave who have been pretty successful elsewhere. I would have to imagine if it could be done over most would have wanted to keep Zimmer and get Marvin into a front office position or just outright fire him.