polls today, predictions ? ?

[Muncie]

I say 8

[bjf123]

I say 8

Agreed.


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[GIMMFD]

Yeah, no way we drop out of top 10 after dismantling Butler, but gosh that Villanova loss hurt.

[GoMuskies]

I think 10. We're going to get punished by that gaudy Villanova score, and Butler isn't "name brand" enough for us to get proper credit for that win.

[xubrew]

The trick to guessing the rankings in the AP poll is to try and guess how the writers who only saw the game they were assigned to cover will vote.

The trick to guessing the rankings in the coaches poll is to try and guess how the DOBOs who vote for the coaches who have probably only seen their own team and their opponents play, will vote.

The other big thing is to not overthink it. And, if you think about it at all, you're probably overthinking it.

[Muncie]

X 5 in new Massey http://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm

[BandAid]

12. I hope to be pleasantly surprised (instead of angrily surprised if I say 8)

[xukeith]

I think 10. We're going to get punished by that gaudy Villanova score, and Butler isn't "name brand" enough for us to get proper credit for that win.
I agree. I say 10 or 11.
Providence is the big winner(top 10).

Villanova will be 12-14

Butler will drop to 20-24.
Seton Hall might crack top 25. Maybe.

[XMuskieFTW]

Seeing a lot of 9s in polls. I'd say 9-10.

[BMoreX]

12 in coaches poll is beyond stupid.

[GoMuskies]

12 in coaches poll is beyond stupid.

Yes, that polls is "interesting" this week.

[blueblood]

12 in coaches poll is beyond stupid.
Don't know which is dumber . . . that X was dropped 6 spots in a week where in two top 25 games it won one and and lost one . . . or that X is then still ranked one spot above the team that beat it by 31?

[Muncie]

These polls are really about branding, I trust Power/computer indexes more; and you can bet Vegas does also (excuse terrible pun)

[Muncie]

Gonzaga 22 coaches poll, 45 RPI.......branding rules

[paulxu]

X 5 in new Massey http://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm

6th.

But I'd still like to see 8/9 in AP.

[GoMuskies]

Gonzaga 22 coaches poll, 45 RPI.......branding rules

I wouldn't use RPI for those purposes. RPI is pretty stupid (except that it is wonderful and useful with X #1). Sagarin and Massey composite are the way to go.

[GoMuskies]

The computers really don't like Providence, by the way.

[Muncie]

Yes 6 I need new glasses

[xufan2434]

Don't know which is dumber . . . that X was dropped 6 spots in a week where in two top 25 games it won one and and lost one . . . or that X is then still ranked one spot above the team that beat it by 31?

Coaches poll is a complete joke. No one on that board who gets to vote has any clue what they're talking about. Not that I'm mad, but fact that X is ahead of Nova is laughable. AP should be more accurate. Also, not sure what system is really the best. RPI gets bashed every year but somehow it's still around?

[xukeith]

UC dropped out. Seton Hall get no attention.
Good for Providence!

I hope X wins next 5 games! That will secure a top 10 ranking.

[paulxu]

Here's a guy who set out to tweak the RPI a couple years ago:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2015/03/12/michigan-state-kevin-pauga/70194756/

His track record last year:

http://www.kpisports.net/2015/03/18/defining-the-accuracy-of-kpi/

And current standings:

http://www.kpisports.net/rankings/kpibasketball/

[Masterofreality]

10 in the AP just released

Providence 8, Nova 11, Butler 18.

Screw the "coaches" errrrrrrrrr, DBO's.

[GoMuskies]

Suck it Villanova! I'm surprised (and pleased) Butler only fell 9 spots.

[Masterofreality]

Suck it Villanova! I'm surprised (and pleased) Butler only fell 9 spots.

Talk about "Branding"? Arizona is 7th despite losing to Providence, who is 8th. Whaaaaa?

[LA Muskie]

UC dropped out. Seton Hall get no attention.
Good for Providence!

I hope X wins next 5 games! That will secure a top 10 ranking.
Seton Hall sits at at RPI 42 (SOS 153) and KenPom 42 (SOS 265). Somewhat surprised they didn't receive any votes, but I'm not sure they actually deserved any.

[LA Muskie]

Talk about "Branding"? Arizona is 7th despite losing to Providence, who is 8th. Whaaaaa?
Well, we do check in at #10 ahead of #11 Villanova despite getting shellacked. H2H matchups certainly matter, but are obviously not determinative of ranking. That said, I agree that AZ is overestimated and Providence overlooked.

[Masterofreality]

No A10 schools listed. 2 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC and 4 Big East. I think we can say that we are definitely now in a "Power Conference".

6 ACC, 4 Big 12, 4 Big East, 4 Big Ten, 3 SEC, 2 PAC 12, 2 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAC.

[BMoreX]

lol at Providence below Arizona. Both have 1 loss. Arizona's loss? To Providence.

[Masterofreality]

Well, we do check in at #10 ahead of #11 Villanova despite getting shellacked. H2H matchups certainly matter, but are obviously not determinative of ranking. That said, I agree that AZ is overestimated and Providence overlooked.

We did lose on Novas home court and Providence won fair and square on a neutral court.

[Muncie]

Dayton 25th in AP

[Xavier]

We did lose on Novas home court and Providence won fair and square on a neutral court.

I can see it both ways- I mean we lost by 30, if we were completely healthy then I think Nova would have been 10 and X 11. Still, I am surprised we are ranked above them but ill take it.

[Pajama Joe]

13-0 SMU 15th in AP, not even a vote in coaches.

[XUMIOH12]

13-0 SMU 15th in AP, not even a vote in coaches.

i guess thats what happens when you get caught cheating

[XUMIOH12]

i guess thats what happens when you get caught cheating

i dont think other coaches appreciate that

[GoMuskies]

Did you just quote yourself within a minute of posting? Nice!

[THRILLHOUSE]

SMU doesn't have any votes in the coaches because a team that is on probation is not eligible for the Coaches Poll:

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaches_Poll :

"Since 1974, teams on probation are not recognized in the poll of coaches while the AP permits their inclusion."

[XUMIOH12]

Did you just quote yourself within a minute of posting? Nice!

a rare feat indeed haha

[xubrew]

lol at Providence below Arizona. Both have 1 loss. Arizona's loss? To Providence.

And Providence lost before Arizona. That's why Zona is higher.

Not saying it should be that way. But, it is that way.

[RP_Gambit]

And Providence lost before Arizona. That's why Zona is higher.

Not saying it should be that way. But, it is that way.

Providence lost to Michigan State after they beat Arizona.

Also, the coaches are not allowed to vote for SMU since they are not allowed to play in post season.

[xubrew]

Providence lost to Michigan State after they beat Arizona.

Also, the coaches are not allowed to vote for SMU since they are not allowed to play in post season.

Yes. I know that. I also know how the polls generally work. Who you lose to doesn't matter. If the #20th ranked team loses in triple overtime on the road to the #1 team, and the #21 and #22 teams both beat div3 teams, they'll still end up passing the previous #20 team. When your most recent loss was is the most important factor, and how many games you've lost is the other important factor. Nova has two losses, and we have one. Essentially, we've gone to the back of the line of the one loss teams, but are still ahead of most of the two loss teams. That's why the polls are so inaccurate a lot of the time. The bracketology sites actually give you a better idea of how good a team typically is than the human polls.

Most coaches only watch their own team and their opponents. Most writers only watch the teams and games they're assigned to cover. Other than that, most of them just look at scores and records. They don't think about who a team beat or who they lost to in the five minutes or less they spend voting.

[GIMMFD]

I think I'm more salty about Kentucky with 2 losses to non-top 25 teams being ahead of us than anything..

[xubrew]

I think I'm more salty about Kentucky with 2 losses to non-top 25 teams being ahead of us than anything..

I get that because I used to be the same way, but I just don't care anymore. The rankings have no shelf life. They're only relevant in the moment and then everyone forgets all about them when the next one comes out. For instance, no one remembers that at this time last year Texas was ranked #10. I didn't even remember until I went back and looked it up. All anyone remembers is that they struggled all throughout conference play and barely snuck into the NCAA Tournament. The polls are interesting, but in the grand scheme of things they're not really that important.

[LA Muskie]

I get that because I used to be the same way, but I just don't care anymore. The rankings have no shelf life. They're only relevant in the moment and then everyone forgets all about them when the next one comes out. For instance, no one remembers that at this time last year Texas was ranked #10. I didn't even remember until I went back and looked it up. All anyone remembers is that they struggled all throughout conference play and barely snuck into the NCAA Tournament. The polls are interesting, but in the grand scheme of things they're not really that important.
I think they are important for marketing purposes. Kids (and their parents) eat that stuff up. So do most fans. Maybe they shouldn't matter, but I don't think it's realistic to say they don't.

[BMoreX]

I think they are important for marketing purposes. Kids (and their parents) eat that stuff up. So do most fans. Maybe they shouldn't matter, but I don't think it's realistic to say they don't.

Exactly. They're important in that we're discussing them right now. ESPN shows AP Top 25 highlights.

From a basketball standpoint there are much better rankings but from a marketing standpoint, these two are still very important and very popular.

[xubrew]

I think they are important for marketing purposes. Kids (and their parents) eat that stuff up. So do most fans. Maybe they shouldn't matter, but I don't think it's realistic to say they don't.

My point is that I really don't think anyone remembers or cares where anyone was ranked last week. When this week becomes next week, they won't care either. Look at where LSU started, and look at where they are now. Where they started is having no impact or meaning whatsoever on how anyone currently feels about LSU. I agree that if a team is able to stay in the rankings for several weeks at a time all the way through the end of the season it makes an impression. But, I still think people value the rankings way too much. I just finally got to a place to where I realized how grossly inaccurate they can be, and that no one will remember this week's rankings a week from now anyway.

[xudash]

I think they are important for marketing purposes. Kids (and their parents) eat that stuff up. So do most fans. Maybe they shouldn't matter, but I don't think it's realistic to say they don't.

This. Period. End of story.

Rankings are very, very important. Branding. Exposure. If you don't believe they're important as a sports fan, so be it, but they're very valuable from a business/marketing standpoint as far as the University is concerned.

Who in their right mind believes anyone associated with Duke University would prefer to have the Blue Devils never ranked?

[xu82]

"Top 10" will always have a nice ring to it.

Computer rankings didn't see Ed go off on a stretcher before the blowout loss at Nova.

[XUFan09]

Although I feel like Brew is being a bit too flippant, I do agree with his general premise. On the individual week-to-week level, rankings don't really matter. It doesn't really matter that Xavier is #10 instead of #8 this week or that they didn't quite crack the top 5 last week. What does matter is staying in rankings for several weeks at a time. Xavier has been top 10 for three straight weeks now, and they've been ranked for most of the season. That's something where there's a definite marketing boost.

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[MADXSTER]

With all due respect to UK, Xavier would thump them IMO.

[xudash]

This. Period. End of story.

Rankings are very, very important. Branding. Exposure. If you don't believe they're important as a sports fan, so be it, but they're very valuable from a business/marketing standpoint as far as the University is concerned.

Who in their right mind believes anyone associated with Duke University would prefer to have the Blue Devils never ranked?

Actually, I'll take back one part of what I wrote before: caring about rankings as a sports fan. You should absolutely care about rankings as a sports fan as well. You're team being ranked means that your cheering for a solid program that is performing well.

I truly don't understand anyone who thinks that being ranked isn't all that important.

[xubrew]

Although I feel like Brew is being a bit too flippant, I do agree with his general premise. On the individual week-to-week level, rankings don't really matter. It doesn't really matter that Xavier is #10 instead of #8 this week or that they didn't quite crack the top 5 last week. What does matter is staying in rankings for several weeks at a time. Xavier has been top 10 for three straight weeks now, and they've been ranked for most of the season. That's something where there's a definite marketing boost.

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Perhaps I am being too flippant, but the rankings just don't have a long term and lasting impression on anyone. They're fireworks. They're this big exciting thing....but only for a second. It's pretty much forgotten as soon as its over. For instance....

Texas, South Carolina, Wyoming, Colorado State, TCU, Creighton, and Seton Hall were all teams that were in the rankings more than Xavier was last year. I don't think it made any sort of lasting impression though. No one thinks of those teams as having better years than Xavier. At the end of the year no one thought of them as being better brands or having more exposure than Xavier. The vast majority of people, including most basketball fans, completely forgot that they were even in the rankings even though it was as recent as last season. No one thinks of California as a top 25, much less a top 15 team today. People probably don't think about them at all, even though they were ranked in the top fifteen just five weeks ago.

[nasdadjr]

First of all who cares the coaches poll means zero. Still top 10 in AP after the drubbing is fine with me. The good thing that matters is that on Jerry Palm podcast today he was already talking about the sumner loss and how Xavier was not motivated after that which is true. I only say it's a good thing cause if a big national media guy is saying it already then the committee knows it as well and are hearing it. If we beat Villanova on our home court sweep butler and split with providence with no more than 4 total losses including the tournament then we are going to be squared in the one/ two seed conversation

[XUFan09]

Brew, it's easy to find teams that were in the rankings more than Xavier last year, as Xavier was hardly in the rankings. When this season is over, though, try to find multiple teams who were in the rankings more weeks than Xavier has been already who ended up not mattering. It will be a challenge.

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[xubrew]

Brew, it's easy to find teams that were in the rankings more than Xavier last year, as Xavier was hardly in the rankings. When this season is over, though, try to find multiple teams who were in the rankings more weeks than Xavier has been already who ended up not mattering. It will be a challenge.

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That's precisely my point. Where you are when the season is over is what makes the deepest impression. Those teams were in the rankings longer than Xavier, but yet people had a much better impression of X than those other teams by the time it was over.

[waggy]

The computers really don't like Providence, by the way.

Stems from when they had some close games, that wouldn't have been, except for injuries.

[BMoreX]

Virginia loses to Va Tech and should plummet down the polls.

[waggy]

Here's a guy who set out to tweak the RPI a couple years ago:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2015/03/12/michigan-state-kevin-pauga/70194756/



Tweak the RPI? I read his algorithm page, and his formula isn't like the RPI formula at all.


The KPI uses opponent winning percentage, opponent strength of schedule, scoring margin, pace and location in its rankings. And the adjustments for home/road/neutral are set by the data, not pre-determined — in other words, if a college basketball season ever saw road teams win more than home teams, home wins would count for more than road wins.

"It's become one of the favorites in the room," MSU athletic director Mark Hollis said of the 10-member selection committee and the KPI, which Hollis brought to the committee in 2013 after encouraging Pauga to make it public.

For the 2013-14 season, the committee used the KPI as a discussion point. This season, it has become part of a breakdown sheet each Monday delivered to committee members, comparing the RPI top 100 with KPI, Sagarin, Pomeroy, BPI and LRMC rankings.

I wonder how accurate that last bolded quote is? Were those the only ratings used? And what/who is LRMC?

[XUFan09]

That's precisely my point. Where you are when the season is over is what makes the deepest impression. Those teams were in the rankings longer than Xavier, but yet people had a much better impression of X than those other teams by the time it was over.
But my point is about sustained rankings. Generally, the examples you gave are of teams that were only ranked one to three weeks. That's not that significant. Xavier, on the other hand, has been ranked for 6 or 7 weeks, nearly the entire season so far.

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[paulxu]

Tweak the RPI? I read his algorithm page, and his formula isn't like the RPI formula at all.

I wonder how accurate that last bolded quote is? Were those the only ratings used? And what/who is LRMC?

Some of his data points are the same, or the same worded differently.

Google is your friend: https://www2.isye.gatech.edu/~jsokol/lrmc/about/

[xubrew]

But my point is about sustained rankings. Generally, the examples you gave are of teams that were only ranked one to three weeks. That's not that significant. Xavier, on the other hand, has been ranked for 6 or 7 weeks, nearly the entire season so far.

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I don't disagree. Xavier wasn't ranked AT ALL during the regular season last year, but still ended up making a much bigger impression than teams that were in the rankings at various points. If you don't finish in the rankings then people won't remember that you were ever in them. If you do finish in the rankings, then people won't remember that you were ever out of them.

[waggy]

Google is your friend: https://www2.isye.gatech.edu/~jsokol/lrmc/about/


Thanks.

[XfansinKy]

I don't know. It just seems easier for prospective recruits to follow Xavier when they are in the top 25. It seems as if not only do news and sports channels show the top 25 teams more, but they also show highlights of the games a lot more than not. I've heard recruits say in interviews they liked Xavier because they're always in the top 25. Honestly, I don't think many people care about post season rankings other than the Final 4 because the season's over and nobody really cares who's ranked 22nd or whatever, other than the hardcore fans of the particular school/team. I think being ranked during the season while recruits get to see Xavier's ranking every single day is not just important, it's paramount.

[MuskieXU]

The KPI uses opponent winning percentage, opponent strength of schedule, scoring margin, pace and location in its rankings. And the adjustments for home/road/neutral are set by the data, not pre-determined — in other words, if a college basketball season ever saw road teams win more than home teams, home wins would count for more than road wins.

"It's become one of the favorites in the room," MSU athletic director Mark Hollis said of the 10-member selection committee and the KPI, which Hollis brought to the committee in 2013 after encouraging Pauga to make it public.

For the 2013-14 season, the committee used the KPI as a discussion point. This season, it has become part of a breakdown sheet each Monday delivered to committee members, comparing the RPI top 100 with KPI, Sagarin, Pomeroy, BPI and LRMC rankings.



I wonder how accurate that last bolded quote is? Were those the only ratings used? And what/who is LRMC?

Seconded. I pay a lot of attention to the process and had never heard that. It could explain why UCLA got in, however.

[Masterofreality]

Well, the KPI loves Xavier too. #1

http://www.kpisports.net/rankings/kpibasketball/

[blueblob06]

I don't know. It just seems easier for prospective recruits to follow Xavier when they are in the top 25. It seems as if not only do news and sports channels show the top 25 teams more, but they also show highlights of the games a lot more than not. I've heard recruits say in interviews they liked Xavier because they're always in the top 25. Honestly, I don't think many people care about post season rankings other than the Final 4 because the season's over and nobody really cares who's ranked 22nd or whatever, other than the hardcore fans of the particular school/team. I think being ranked during the season while recruits get to see Xavier's ranking every single day is not just important, it's paramount.
Agreed. I watched SportsCenter every morning growing up, most of my friends did too. While I was not in the running for a basketball scholarship, I'm positive high school players watch highlights, follow ESPN/others on Twitter, and on and on. When Xavier is ranked, highlights of their game are aired on SportsCenter every hour that night and the next morning (along with most other sports shows). When they are not ranked, they are usually not aired. That is huge. You will even see high school prospects tweet stuff like "Wow, just saw the Sumner dunk!", etc, etc. Not to mention that the more people see your brand, the more likely they'll buy tickets to a game, buy a Xavier hat, etc.

[xudash]

I don't disagree. Xavier wasn't ranked AT ALL during the regular season last year, but still ended up making a much bigger impression than teams that were in the rankings at various points. If you don't finish in the rankings then people won't remember that you were ever in them. If you do finish in the rankings, then people won't remember that you were ever out of them.

You simply aren't looking at this the right way.

It's this simple: we want Xavier to be PRESENT at all times, where "being present" means being in the media and in the minds of fans and followers. In our case, that generally means being present during the collegiate basketball season. We want Xavier to be present during the entire season because that means Xavier is succeeding on the court, and it would therefore follow that we would be ranked, and enjoying media exposure. Being ranked equates to success, and it puts you in an exclusive club (25) by definition.

It matters being ranked during the season.

It matters making it to the Tournament and performing well in it.

Again, it all matters. Pour it on. Succeed. Have the BRAND be known far and wide for how it distinguishes itself in the sport.

What would ND's brand be like today had Knute Rockne not accepted its offer to coach football there?

Xavier now receive over 10,000 applications a year. Would that be happening without the success of our basketball program? I doubt it. Could that figure go up if we were to punch out another E8, or make a F4? Probably.

[paulxu]

could that figure go up when we were to punch out another e8, or make a f4? Probably.

ftfy

[xubrew]

You simply aren't looking at this the right way.

It's this simple: we want Xavier to be PRESENT at all times, where "being present" means being in the media and in the minds of fans and followers. In our case, that generally means being present during the collegiate basketball season. We want Xavier to be present during the entire season because that means Xavier is succeeding on the court, and it would therefore follow that we would be ranked, and enjoying media exposure. Being ranked equates to success, and it puts you in an exclusive club (25) by definition.

It matters being ranked during the season.

It matters making it to the Tournament and performing well in it.

Again, it all matters. Pour it on. Succeed. Have the BRAND be known far and wide for how it distinguishes itself in the sport.

What would ND's brand be like today had Knute Rockne not accepted its offer to coach football there?

Xavier now receive over 10,000 applications a year. Would that be happening without the success of our basketball program? I doubt it. Could that figure go up if we were to punch out another E8, or make a F4? Probably.

I understand that, and I completely agree with that.

My only point is that I feel that if you're not there at the end of the year, then no one will ever remember that you were there during the year. At the end of the season if you go back and look through the rankings week by week, it's actually kind of surprising to see some of the teams that were in the rankings and that you completely forgot about once they dropped out. That's my only point.

...and, I'll also start taking it more seriously when the actual voters start taking it more seriously. Having someone else vote for you and then signing your name on it is not taking it seriously. Forgetting to vote or simply not voting is not taking it seriously. Spending a grand total of five minutes on it while just glancing through the scores of the games you didn't cover is not taking it seriously. I'm not saying I don't see your point. Hell, I agree with your point. But, I also don't think it's an accurate indicator of how good teams actually are, and I don't think the individual weekly polls make a strong lasting impression once the season is over.

I actually think it would be much better if the selection committee released a weekly poll like the football committee does.

[DoubleD86]

I understand that, and I completely agree with that.

My only point is that I feel that if you're not there at the end of the year, then no one will ever remember that you were there during the year. At the end of the season if you go back and look through the rankings week by week, it's actually kind of surprising to see some of the teams that were in the rankings and that you completely forgot about once they dropped out. That's my only point.

...and, I'll also start taking it more seriously when the actual voters start taking it more seriously. Having someone else vote for you and then signing your name on it is not taking it seriously. Forgetting to vote or simply not voting is not taking it seriously. Spending a grand total of five minutes on it while just glancing through the scores of the games you didn't cover is not taking it seriously. I'm not saying I don't see your point. Hell, I agree with your point. But, I also don't think it's an accurate indicator of how good teams actually are, and I don't think the individual weekly polls make a strong lasting impression once the season is over.

I actually think it would be much better if the selection committee released a weekly poll like the football committee does.

I get what you are saying Brew, and I agree with you to an extent. Here's where I differ from you though. You are correct that when assessing the season, people don't remember early-mid polls and how you end matters more. Still, those 3-4 weeks spent in the Top 25 mattered at the time and gained more exposure and more recognition for those teams. Yes, it may not be sustained or go very far, but you don't take away those 2-3 weeks of recognition and exposure. How valuable are those couple of weeks? I have no idea. But they are still there and it is a value regardless of how the season ends up. Obviously, it is a much lower value than the tourney success and overall success, but a value nonetheless.

I'm with whoever mentioned they don't care about specific rankings, just certain milestones. Being ranked, being top 15, being top 10, being top 5 and being #1 are the levels I put things at and even then, I don't care that much one way or the other. It is just a nice added value to a season when those thresholds are met. The biggest thing is that with higher rankings follows more coverage (written and digital) in the media which leads to more exposure and brand value. Without that run to #6, Xavier doesn't have article after article written about them. Even if they flame out, that positive value still happened and can't be taken away.

[UCGRAD4X]

Well, the KPI loves Xavier too. #1

http://www.kpisports.net/rankings/kpibasketball/

"KPI Rankings are designed to rank resumes and not necessarily who is the better team"

I'm not really sure what that means!

[DoubleD86]

Some voters vote on who they think is better, not who has done better. They are clarifying that their rankings are based on who has done better, not who they think would win in a matchup.

[nuts4xu]

Some voters vote on who they think is better, not who has done better. They are clarifying that their rankings are based on who has done better, not who they think would win in a matchup.

That is very subjective and seems like a bad way to compare teams.

[xukeith]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/powerrankings

X 8th

3 BE teams in top 10

[UCGRAD4X]

I assume a top ten team in college basketball to mean one of the ten best teams.

Isn't the whole point is to ultimately determine who the best team is?

I understand because of match-ups and off-days and what not, the National Champion may not necessarily be the best team in the nation, but that's the idea. Since best team is such a subjective notion and depends on so many variables, the tournament is the way we have decided to make that determination. There are other ways to measure (polls, metrics, and what-not) but the tournament is the de facto, agreed-upon measure. Everything else is really just leading up to where a particular poll or metric put a team come tournament time.

If a particular measuring devise doesn't serve the purpose of telling us which teams are best, what's the point?

[xu82]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/powerrankings

X 8th

3 BE teams in top 10

X is actually 9th, but still top 10. And 4 in the top 20.

[D-West & PO-Z]

X is actually 9th, but still top 10. And 4 in the top 20.

As high as 6, as low as 12.

[xu82]

As high as 6, as low as 12.

I was referring to the link he provided.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I was referring to the link he provided.

Yeah I know, I was just providing further detail. Lunardi had us as high as 6 ain the ESPN rankings and two of their voters had us as low as 12.

[Xpectations]

Sagarin rankings show that X is the only team with 5 Top-50 wins.

And all of those wins are against teams in the Top 35 of the Sagarin rankings: Butler #21, Michigan #24, UC #32, Dayton #33, USC #34.

Out of those Top 35 teams, X has the highest Sagarin SOS at #11.

[UCGRAD4X]

Sagarin rankings show that X is the only team with 5 Top-50 wins.

And all of those wins are against teams in the Top 35 of the Sagarin rankings: Butler #21, Michigan #24, UC #32, Dayton #33, USC #34.

Out of those Top 35 teams, X has the highest Sagarin SOS at #11.

What happens to SOS after tonight?

[xu82]

What happens to SOS after tonight?

....we won't talk about it any more?

[Xpectations]

What happens to SOS after tonight?

Yeah, it sucks that a Big East opponent is going to harm our SOS to the degree that St. John's will.

Using KenPom rankings (where it's easy to compare previous seasons), St. John's ranking is the lowest ranking of any Big East team in the history of KenPom rankings (since 2002).

Their current KenPom ranking of #242 is the lowest by far of any Big East team. The only other teams that exceeded #200 were: Rutgers at #209 in 2007, WVU at #202 in 2002.

[XUMIOH12]

Sagarin rankings show that X is the only team with 5 Top-50 wins.

And all of those wins are against teams in the Top 35 of the Sagarin rankings: Butler #21, Michigan #24, UC #32, Dayton #33, USC #34.

Out of those Top 35 teams, X has the highest Sagarin SOS at #11.

But no top 20 wins, which is a knock that some people have against Xavier.

[Masterofreality]

But no top 20 wins, which is a knock that some people have against Xavier.

Butler's 20th in Sagarin. Of what measurement do you speak?

http://sagarin.com/sports/cbsend.htm

[XUMIOH12]

Butler's 20th in Sagarin. Of what measurement do you speak?

http://sagarin.com/sports/cbsend.htm

Come on. I was referring to the numbers in the previous post that is quoted. Its not like i think we dont have any great wins, but some people try to say that since we havent beaten a top 10 team or whatever and that we havent really proven to be ranked this high.

[Masterofreality]

Come on. I was referring to the numbers in the previous post that is quoted. Its not like i think we dont have any great wins, but some people try to say that since we havent beaten a top 10 team or whatever and that we havent really proven to be ranked this high.

Just adjusting for the sake of accuracy. :smile:

#HatersGonnaHate

[Xville]

Come on. I was referring to the numbers in the previous post that is quoted. Its not like i think we dont have any great wins, but some people try to say that since we havent beaten a top 10 team or whatever and that we havent really proven to be ranked this high.

I don't think we have proven to be among the elite teams yet. However, very few have..Kansas, Oklahoma, Michigan State and maybe one or two more have because they have played and beaten other top 10 teams. Whether you like it or not, Xavier hasn't...yet. Yes I know Butler was 9 at the time but they had already lost once that week and I think we can all agree they probably aren't a top 10 team.

Anyways, Xavier has some really good wins, and on paper and eye-test I think Xavier may just be an elite team, but I don't think they have proven it yet, and thats ok...plenty of time to do just that.

[UCGRAD4X]

I don't think we have proven to be among the elite teams yet. However, very few have..Kansas, Oklahoma, Michigan State and maybe one or two more have because they have played and beaten other top 10 teams. Whether you like it or not, Xavier hasn't...yet. Yes I know Butler was 9 at the time but they had already lost once that week and I think we can all agree they probably aren't a top 10 team.

Anyways, Xavier has some really good wins, and on paper and eye-test I think Xavier may just be an elite team, but I don't think they have proven it yet, and thats ok...plenty of time to do just that.

No proof against St. Johns (unless you count "Beating the teams you are supposed to beat" - there is that)..:zzz:

[UCGRAD4X]

What happens to SOS after tonight?

Surprisingly, only went from #2 to #3.

So, ok then.

[muskiefan82]

Surprisingly, only went from #2 to #3.

So, ok then.

Road game. Only reason it wasn't impacted more severely.

[xubrew]

A few things about the SOS ranking....

The one that most websites use (Warren Nolan, Jerry Palm, ESPN, etc) is way too generic. It's simply the second and third layer of the RPI, which comes out to 2/3rds your opponent's winning percentage, and 1/3rd your opponents' opponent's winning percentage. That's it. The game's location is not factored in.

What's crazy is that the formula the selection committee uses is even more generic than the already too generic formula that most of the media uses. It's your opponent's winning percentage. That's it. Saint John's is 6-9. That's a .333 winning percentage. It's averaged up with all the other winning percentages, and your SOS is where you rank after that's averaged.

The long of the short is that it's too generic to be precise, and that seems to be the way the committee likes it. They like general ratings of relative strength, and they want to decide for themselves how strong a team is or isn't.

I hope that wasn't too boring for most of you.

[GoMuskies]

Saint John's is 6-9. That's a .333 winning percentage.


You didn't do well in math, did you?

[muskiefan82]

Saint John's is 6-9. That's a .333 winning percentage.




You didn't do well in math, did you?

Perhaps .400 equals .333 in the new common core math.

[xubrew]

You didn't do well in math, did you?

I....

I'm.......


.......

.......


.....I'll just show myself out.

[paulxu]

What's crazy is that the formula the selection committee uses is even more generic than the already too generic formula that most of the media uses. It's your opponent's winning percentage. That's it. Saint John's is 6-9. That's a .333 winning percentage. It's averaged up with all the other winning percentages, and your SOS is where you rank after that's averaged.

I think (?) I disagree. If a SOS is actually who you've played against, and who they have played against...it is automatically figured into the RPI that the NCAA uses...which is 25% your record, 50% your opponents, and 25% your opponents' opponents.

I'm just confused on how/where/when the weighting for road vs home game comes into play. Whether it's ever part of RPI or is it used in another rating index.

[xubrew]

I think (?) I disagree. If a SOS is actually who you've played against, and who they have played against...it is automatically figured into the RPI that the NCAA uses...which is 25% your record, 50% your opponents, and 25% your opponents' opponents.

I'm just confused on how/where/when the weighting for road vs home game comes into play. Whether it's ever part of RPI or is it used in another rating index.

I'm not sure what you're asking, but...

The RPI is basically 25-50-25 that you mentioned. 25% that is your own record is weighted toward home and way. You got 0.6 wins for winning at home and 1.4 wins for winning on the road. In other words if a team is 3-1, but played all those games at home, their adjusted record is 1.8-1.4.

the SOS formula is just the 50-25 part of the 25-50-25 formula that you mentioned, but when you lop off the first 25%, the 50-25 becomes 66%-33%. That's what the media uses when ranking strength of schedule.

the committee doesn't even use that. They just use the 50%. So, all SOS is to the committee is an average of your opponents win/loss record. Home and road records aren't weighted at all in this index.

Now, having said that, the committee can weigh it in because it's a subjective process. They can weigh in whatever they'd like.

[xu82]

I'm not sure what you're asking, but...

The RPI is basically 25-50-25 that you mentioned. 25% that is your own record is weighted toward home and way. You got 0.6 wins for winning at home and 1.4 wins for winning on the road. In other words if a team is 3-1, but played all those games at home, their adjusted record is 1.8-1.4.

the SOS formula is just the 50-25 part of the 25-50-25 formula that you mentioned, but when you lop off the first 25%, it 50-25 becomes 66%-33%. That's what the media uses when ranking strength of schedule.

the committee doesn't even use that. They just use the 50%. So, all SOS is to the committee is an average of your opponents win/loss record. Home and road records aren't weighted at all in this index.

Now, having said that, the committee can weigh it in because it's a subjective process. They can weigh in whatever they'd like.

That sounded pretty "mathy", but I'll take your word for it.

[xukeith]

That sounded pretty "mathy", but I'll take your word for it.

As a math teacher, A Plus!

[paulxu]

the SOS formula is just the 50-25 part of the 25-50-25 formula that you mentioned, but when you lop off the first 25%, the 50-25 becomes 66%-33%. That's what the media uses when ranking strength of schedule.

the committee doesn't even use that. They just use the 50%. So, all SOS is to the committee is an average of your opponents win/loss record. Home and road records aren't weighted at all in this index.

That's where I have the problem. I think it's incorrect to say the committee "doesn't use that." By virtue of the fact that they do use RPI, they are using ALL the components of it. It's their primary guide. By using RPI they perforce have to be using the first 25% which is your own W/L record. So, you can say when they talk about strength of schedule that they are only using the last two components...but they are also using the first one as well.

[xubrew]

That's where I have the problem. I think it's incorrect to say the committee "doesn't use that." By virtue of the fact that they do use RPI, they are using ALL the components of it. It's their primary guide. By using RPI they perforce have to be using the first 25% which is your own W/L record. So, you can say when they talk about strength of schedule that they are only using the last two components...but they are also using the first one as well.

Ahh, I see what you're saying.

The SOS metric that the committee looks at does not factor in home/road record. I'm speaking simply in terms of how the metric is calculated. The RPI does. The SOS does not.

But, winning on the road is hugely important to the committee. In fact there have been a few years where I thought the committee pretty much only looked at what teams did on the road.

[paulxu]

It's nice to know they also look at injuries to key players.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/mens-basketball-selections-101-selections

[xubrew]

It's nice to know they also look at injuries to key players.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/mens-basketball-selections-101-selections

Yup, they do. Each committee member has three or four conferences that they monitor, and they give weekly reports all season long. I'm sure they know about Sumner.

[X-band '01]

It's nice to know they also look at injuries to key players.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/mens-basketball-selections-101-selections

Do they look at teams that get food poisoning from Chipotle (i.e. Boston College)?

[GoMuskies]

Do they look at teams that get food poisoning from Chipotle (i.e. Boston College)?

Or teams that experience jetlag due to flying from Orlando to Southwestern Ohio?

[paulxu]

Do I want sUCks to win tonight to help our RPI or something?

They tried to start another brawl tonight.

[xu82]

Do I want sUCks to win tonight to help our RPI or something?

They tried to start another brawl tonight.

Mick keeps telling them to be tough.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Do I want sUCks to win tonight to help our RPI or something?

They tried to start another brawl tonight.

Xavier just mentioned in the game by Len Elmore.

[xu82]

Xavier just mentioned in the game by Len Elmore.

Was it a Brawl reference, or a Xavier is good comment? Or other?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Was it a Brawl reference, or a Xavier is good comment? Or other?

Didnt hear the beginning but heard him say Xavier is a national contender.

[xu82]

Didnt hear the beginning but heard him say Xavier is a national contender.

Nice, I hope every 4 and 5 star guy out there heard the same thing.

[Masterofreality]

Mick keeps telling them to be tough.

Yeah, well, too bad The Leprechaun can't tell them a decent offensive play to run. Horrible end of game offense.

[xu82]

Yeah, well, too bad The Leprechaun can't tell them a decent offensive play to run. Horrible end of game offense.

If you can't play.....Brawl.

[UCGRAD4X]

Listened to a little bit of the broadcast in my travels last night. Commentary consisted almost exclusively about fouls being called. "OMG" "That's terrible" "Nickle/Dime" "Ticky-tack" without a lot of real explanation, just a lot of mild expletives.

Nothing more entertaining than listening to "the refs are out to get us" commentary.

Granted, at the time the fouls were like UC 7- SMU 1

I wonder why?

Must be the refs!

[BMoreX]

So #4, 7, 8 and 9 in the rankings all lost this week to unranked teams. Xavier, despite a crap performance at St. John's, could be back to #6 in the next polls unless someone leapfrogs us or Virginia (#4) doesn't fall too much.

[xukeith]

So #4, 7, 8 and 9 in the rankings all lost this week to unranked teams. Xavier, despite a crap performance at St. John's, could be back to #6 in the next polls unless someone leapfrogs us or Virginia (#4) doesn't fall too much.

I bet #8

[EastCoastXman]

We will definitely move up but not past VA. If Nova wins at Butler this weekend, they will probably jump us. 6-8 a good possibility.

[X-man]

Do I want sUCks to win tonight to help our RPI or something?

They tried to start another brawl tonight.

Explain, please. I didn't see the game.

[paulxu]

Explain, please. I didn't see the game.


http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:14526739

[Masterofreality]

Listened to a little bit of the broadcast in my travels last night. Commentary consisted almost exclusively about fouls being called. "OMG" "That's terrible" "Nickle/Dime" "Ticky-tack" without a lot of real explanation, just a lot of mild expletives.

Nothing more entertaining than listening to "the refs are out to get us" commentary.

Granted, at the time the fouls were like UC 7- SMU 1

I wonder why?

Must be the refs!

Sounds like typical "Angry Dan" Hoard and his minion Chuck Maychock. Those guys are hacks. Joe and Byron, despite not having any formal broadcast training are sooooooooooo much better. how Hoard is the Bengals announcer is a mystery for the ages.

[muskiefan82]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:14526739

WHAT?!?!? Do you mean that maybe, just maybe, UC can be at fault for some bad behavior on the court? Not possible. Clearly, they were just trying to show their coach they are tough.

[xubrew]

UC is just five total points and about fifteen total seconds away from having just one loss with three wins over top twenty teams and probably ranked at or near the top ten. It would actually be better for us if they were.

[X-man]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:14526739

Thanks, man.

[UCGRAD4X]

Sounds like typical "Angry Dan" Hoard and his minion Chuck Maychock. Those guys are hacks. Joe and Byron, despite not having any formal broadcast training are sooooooooooo much better. how Hoard is the Bengals announcer is a mystery for the ages.

Not sure who was with Hoard - didn't sound like Maychock. I don't generally listen to B'kitten basketball.

[X-band '01]

Terry Nelson pinch hits for Machock on his off nights.

[xeus]

Not sure who was with Hoard - didn't sound like Maychock. I don't generally listen to B'kitten basketball.

That was Terry "Xavier doesn't really have a chance (http://enquirer.com/editions/2001/12/14/spt_these_days_nelson.html)" Nelson. Clown.

[XU 87]

UC is just five total points and about fifteen total seconds away from having just one loss with three wins over top twenty teams and probably ranked at or near the top ten. It would actually be better for us if they were.

Maybe for RPI, but not for those of us who root for UC to get their ass kicked every game so we can then ask our UC friends the next day after such ass kicking, "How did UC do last night?"

[Masterofreality]

UC is just five total points and about fifteen total seconds away from having just one loss with three wins over top twenty teams and probably ranked at or near the top ten. It would actually be better for us if they were.

We don't need their stinking help. We're good enough. We're smart enough. And, doggone it...People LIKE us!!!

F-em. Hope they lose every freaking game!!

[muskiefan82]

uc is just five total points, about fifteen total seconds, and 1-2 feet from a normal sized coach away from having just one loss with three wins over top twenty teams and probably ranked at or near the top ten. It would actually be better for us if they were.

ftfy

[X-man]

Sounds like typical "Angry Dan" Hoard and his minion Chuck Maychock. Those guys are hacks. Joe and Byron, despite not having any formal broadcast training are sooooooooooo much better. how Hoard is the Bengals announcer is a mystery for the ages.

Maychock may have been good at one point in time. He is worthless as an announcer now. He contributes NOTHING to the broadcasts.

[Muskie1000]

Maybe for RPI, but not for those of us who root for UC to get their ass kicked every game so we can then ask our UC friends the next day after such ass kicking, "How did UC do last night?"

exactly

[UCGRAD4X]

Maychock may have been good at one point in time. He is worthless as an announcer now. He contributes NOTHING to the broadcasts.

Nelson was adding nothing to the broadcast either - just groaning and muttering about the fouls - not any insight. But, as I said, this was a very brief and infrequent foray into the UC radio. Nelson should not submit this snippet in his resume portfolio.

[xumuskies08]

Sounds like typical "Angry Dan" Hoard and his minion Chuck Maychock. Those guys are hacks. Joe and Byron, despite not having any formal broadcast training are sooooooooooo much better. how Hoard is the Bengals announcer is a mystery for the ages.

Meh, I like Hoard. He might get a little upset and homer-ish, but if it's your team that's what you want. I'd rather have that over somebody like Jim Kelch. I like him on the Bengals games.

[Masterofreality]

Xavier up to 8th in the USA Today Coaches Poll.
No AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC schools ranked, because SMU, you know. This is like Convict USA all over again.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I am guessing 6 in AP unless Nova jumps us which I could see then 7th.

[Xville]

Wow...Duke is the most overrated team in the country. What have they done to deserve #6? I hope we play them in the tourney so we can teabag them up and down the floor.

[GoMuskies]

The state of Indiana is owning the bottom of the poll. 23-25.

[GoMuskies]

GW and Dayton both received significant votes for the Coaches' Poll this week, too. Clearly, some of these voters are not paying any attention at all.

[Masterofreality]

Xavier 7, Villanova 6 in AP this week.

Providence 12. Butler hangs in tied for 23.

[X-band '01]

AP Poll is out (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/rankings/ap)

Villanova #6, Xavier #7

At least Miami (#8) is above Duke (#9) in this poll. Arizona and Virginia went into freefall; South Carolina and Texas A&M got nice bumps. It's too bad that USC just missed the Top 25 behind Gonzaga.

[Xville]

Kansas is going to be lucky to hold onto that #1 ranking this week....@WVU is not a fun place to play as a visiting team.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Dropped to #2 in RPI behind Nova.

[paulxu]

Dropped to #2 in RPI behind Nova.

Huh? http://www.rpiforecast.com/live-rpi.html

[xukeith]

Still #1
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2016/rpi

[xukeith]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings

7th in AP 8th in ESPN/USA Today

[D-West & PO-Z]

Huh? http://www.rpiforecast.com/live-rpi.html


Still #1
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2016/rpi

Sorry I was going off of ESPN's, I didnt know there were different RPIs.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi

[D-West & PO-Z]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings

7th in AP 8th in ESPN/USA Today

ESPN doesnt sponsor the coaches poll anymore.

They use the AP when showing highlights and scores.

[bobbiemcgee]

The state of Indiana is owning the bottom of the poll. 23-25.

Was actually glad to see BU still in the Top 25....losses to 6,7,8 and 12.

[D-West & PO-Z]

XU 7th in ESPN power rankings.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/powerrankings

As high as 7, as low as 9.

[X-band '01]

AP Poll by Voters (http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/xu/2015)

Xavier's range shrunk to #5-#11 this week; someone actually had the Muskies #19 last week (Jeff Faraudo). He quickly saw the error of his ways and moved X up to #10 this week.

[paulxu]

I decided to look at the top of the rankings last week, and compare to current records (only MSU plays today).

1 Kansas 14-1/15-2 RPI 4 SOS 4
2 Oklaho 13-1/15-1 RPI 2 SOS 6
3 Marylan 15-1/16-2 RPI 13 SOS 74
4 MSU 16-1/16-2 RPI 12 SOS 47
5 UNC 15-2/16-2 RPI 5 SOS 29
6 Villa 14-2/16-2 RPI 1 SOS 1
7 XU 14-1/16-1 RPI 3 SOS 10

Kansas, Maryland and MSU had loses.

If you didn't have names in front of the records, it would seem that XU would easily be in the top 5 on Monday.

If you did it by RPI, we'd be #3. If you did it by SOS we'd be #4. If you did it by W/L's we'd be #1.
If you did it by a combination of RPI, SOS and W/L's we'd be #1 or #2.

Will be interesting to see where we get placed.

[94GRAD]

I decided to look at the top of the rankings last week, and compare to current records (only MSU plays today).

1 Kansas 14-1/15-2 RPI 4 SOS 4
2 Oklaho 13-1/15-1 RPI 2 SOS 6
3 Marylan 15-1/16-2 RPI 13 SOS 74
4 MSU 16-1/16-2 RPI 12 SOS 47
5 UNC 15-2/16-2 RPI 5 SOS 29
6 Villa 14-2/16-2 RPI 1 SOS 1
7 XU 14-1/16-1 RPI 3 SOS 10

Kansas, Maryland and MSU had loses.

If you didn't have names in front of the records, it would seem that XU would easily be in the top 5 on Monday.

If you did it by RPI, we'd be #3. If you did it by SOS we'd be #4. If you did it by W/L's we'd be #1.
If you did it by a combination of RPI, SOS and W/L's we'd be #1 or #2.

Will be interesting to see where we get placed.

#5

[Always Learning]

We move up to #6. MSU out of Top Ten.
KU # 1, Okla #2, Maryland # 3, UNC #4, 'Nova #5

Ain't it fun watching Dickie's Dukies fall by the wayside?

This is heady air guys!

[LA Muskie]

Here's what I see:
1. Oklahoma
2. North Carolina
3. Villanova
4. Kansas
5. Xavier
6. Maryland
7. MSU
8. WVU
9. SMU
10. Iowa


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Strange Brew]

We move up to #6. MSU out of Top Ten.
KU # 1, Okla #2, Maryland # 3, UNC #4, 'Nova #5

Ain't it fun watching Dickie's Dukies fall by the wayside?

This is heady air guys!

I think #5 and I'm pinching myself while doing so. This year has been so much fun so far! Makes me miss going to games and indirectly paying 94's mortgage.

[OTRMUSKIE]

You guys are all wrong. #1,3,4 all lost this week. So the top 4 will be......... Also the way I look at it is X should hold serve at home and the top 3 have a great chance to lose this week. X will be #1 going into Providence.

1.Oklahoma
2. UNC
3. Nova
4. X
5. Dayton (multiply by 20)
6. Cincinnati (multiply by 30)

[94GRAD]

You guys are all wrong. #1,3,4 all lost this week. So the top 4 will be......... Also the way I look at it is X should hold serve at home and the top 3 have a great chance to lose this week. X will be #1 going into Providence.

1.Oklahoma
2. UNC
3. Nova
4. X
5. Dayton (multiply by 20)
6. Cincinnati (multiply by 30)

We are not going to jump Kansas.

[LA Muskie]

I don't see Kansas dropping to lower than 4th with a road loss at WVU. But I'd take your Top 4...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OTRMUSKIE]

We dropped 4 spots after losing to nova on the road with our best player out. Kansas is dropping 4 spots in the AP. Kansas will be 5

[LA Muskie]

Like I said, I'll be happy if you're right and I'm wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xuwin]

We dropped 4 spots after losing to nova on the road with our best player out. Kansas is dropping 4 spots in the AP. Kansas will be 5

We dropped 4 spots for losing by 30 points.

[XUFan09]

We dropped 4 spots after losing to nova on the road with our best player out. Kansas is dropping 4 spots in the AP. Kansas will be 5
You are assuming equality in perception. Just consider how long it took Duke and UK to drop out of the top 10.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

You are assuming equality in perception. Just consider how long it took Duke and UK to drop out of the top 10.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Parrish has them gone from the Top 25:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25452461/both-kentucky-and-duke-drop-completely-out-of-the-cbs-sports-top-25-and-one

[94GRAD]

We dropped 4 spots after losing to nova on the road with our best player out. Kansas is dropping 4 spots in the AP. Kansas will be 5

I will bet you a night of drinking at Danas against 1 Captain and Coke we will not jump Kansas.

[XUFan09]

Parrish has them gone from the Top 25:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25452461/both-kentucky-and-duke-drop-completely-out-of-the-cbs-sports-top-25-and-one
I'm not talking about now. I'm talking about earlier this season when they stuck around the top 10 way too long. I know Duke is still technically on the edge of the top 10 right now, though.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[X-band '01]

Sparty is struggling at Wisconsin today.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Michigan St. lost again this week. Wisconsin beat them by 1 pt. today.

[X-Fan]

Michigan St. lost again this week. Wisconsin beat them by 1 pt. today.

Wow! Sparty loses by 1 to a bad Wisconsin team. Blew a small lead in the last 2 minutes. Wiscy down 4 with 30 sec to go. Hits 3, MSU turnover on inbounds, layup by Wiscy to go up 1, Sparty misses shot at buzzer to win. Bad loss.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Mich. St. will drop out of top 10 next week for sure. Good thing for us. X should be ranked #5 by AP at least.

[Masterofreality]

We are not going to jump Kansas.

Agree. I say #5

[OTRMUSKIE]

I will bet you a night of drinking at Danas against 1 Captain and Coke we will not jump Kansas.

So if I win I get a free night of drinking at Dana's? And if I lose I just have to buy one captain and Coke? Do I get to drink the captain too?

[X-band '01]

West Virginia, Iowa, Texas A&M and USC are all going to get big jumps in the polls this week. Iowa would be getting 1st-place votes if not for the choke job at Iowa State.

[94GRAD]

So if I win I get a free night of drinking at Dana's? And if I lose I just have to buy one captain and Coke? Do I get to drink the captain too?

Yes

[xu82]

Yes

You are a shrewd negotiator. I had an attorney like you once.

[Masterofreality]

Seth Davis has X 6th this week. 'Nova 5th. West Virginia 3rd!

[X-band '01]

West Virginia would have deserved 3rd had they been able to win at Oklahoma. Maybe he thought they did win?

[LA Muskie]

West Virginia would have deserved 3rd had they been able to win at Oklahoma. Maybe he thought they did win?
Seth is one of the few voters who is vocal about the fact that polls shouldn't be about who won, who lost, and moving them up in lockstep as a result. He's also a fan of advanced metrics.

I haven't watched WVU play enough to know where they deserve to be ranked. But they do check in at #5 KenPom and #4 Sagarin -- ahead of us in both. Incidentally, Villanova is #1 in both of those ranking systems.

WVU doesn't fare so well in the RPI. But...well...the RPI sucks. Even if it does like us this year.

[XUFan09]

.

[vee4xu]

X is 5th in the 1/17 CBS Sports 25+1 poll.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Oh, something tough has happened or is happening in a player's life? That guy can join the club; there are already a lot of members. Garrett is enough of a competitor that he would probably embarrassed at something suggesting such a thing.

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Wrong thread?

[XUFan09]

Wrong thread?
D'oh! Don't know how that happened.

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[xu82]

.

Slipping?

[xeus]

I'm cool with 5, 6, or 7. Whatever. Let's keep winning.

[xu82]

I'm cool with 5, 6, or 7. Whatever. Let's keep winning.

EXACTLY! Top 10 is cool, #1 would be awesome, but it's all a crap shoot. Just keep winning.

[XUMIOH12]

i'm thinking we should be 5 this week.

[STL_XUfan]

My guess is 6. I have seen a lot of 5-7 rankings in the writers that put their ballots out monday morning, but none higher than 5. Therefore, unless there are numerous split votes, I think we end up at 6.

[xukeith]

My guess is 6. I have seen a lot of 5-7 rankings in the writers that put their ballots out monday morning, but none higher than 5. Therefore, unless there are numerous split votes, I think we end up at 6.
villanova will be 5th X ill be 6

[Masterofreality]

USA Today- Xavier 6th (up 2 from last week's poll), Villanova 4th
Four BE teams still ranked.

http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/basketball-men/polls/coaches-poll/

[XUMIOH12]

based on actual resume Xavier should be 2 or 3. the "name brand" teams are getting more respect still.

[GoMuskies]

We should be ahead of Maryland....but I don't care THAT much in the middle of January.

[BMoreX]

Maryland ahead of us is laugh out loud funny.

[Masterofreality]

Maryland ahead of us is laugh out loud funny.

They did blow that powerhouse team coached by Beaknose off the floor, tho....(but 12 RPI vs X at 3)

Still might get to 5 in the AP.

[XUMIOH12]

We should be ahead of Maryland....but I don't care THAT much in the middle of January.

yeah exactly

[xukeith]

On Twitter, WVU tweeted WV is #7 now in USA today poll.
I don't see the link yet. AP is not out.

[xukeith]

http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/basketball-men/polls/coaches-poll/

Villanova 4
XU 6th

[Masterofreality]

On Twitter, WVU tweeted WV is #7 now in USA today poll.
I don't see the link yet. AP is not out.

Check my post with the link. Thuggy is 7.

[XUFan09]

They did blow that powerhouse team coached by Beaknose off the floor, tho....(but 12 RPI vs X at 3)

Still might get to 5 in the AP.

Yeah, I doubt the coaches (excuse me, DBOs) are aware that the regularly top 25 Ohio State is having a bad year and is now #78 in Kenpom. Maryland should be beating them up at home if they claim to be a top 10 team.

[xukeith]

Maryland ahead of us is laugh out loud funny.

Maryland is 0-2 against top 50 rpi teams. Wow! X is 4-1.

[GIMMFD]

That overrated Maryland team will get exposed when it truly matters, all we need to do is keep winning. We have a good team, people are noticing, that's what matters.

[Emp]

Rankings feel good in January, better in March. Enjoying one game at a time is a great reward for long time, long hopeful supporters.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Maryland is 0-2 against top 50 rpi teams. Wow! X is 4-1.

5-1 from what I see, but again I am looking at ESPN's and I now know that may be off.

[LA Muskie]

Maryland is overrated. Villanova and WVU are both underrated. At least based on KenPom and Sagarin -- both of which I find far more meaningful than the RPI. (We are KenPom #8 and Sagarin #9.)

[XUFan09]

Maryland is 1-2 against Kenpom top 50 teams, 5-2 against the top 75. Clearly they can beat NIT teams.

Edit: I'll be fair to them. Beating an NIT-level team on the road is like beating a top 25 team on a neutral floor. So, we can count the wins over Wisconsin and Northwestern as really good wins and say they are 3-2 against tournament-level competition. Still not outstanding, but their two losses came on the road against a top 10 team and a team just outside the top 25. In the end, I don't think they are a top 5 team, but I could see an argument for the top 10. Realistically, I would put them in the top 15.

[LA Muskie]

5-1 from what I see, but again I am looking at ESPN's and I now know that may be off.

We are also 5-1 vs KenPom Top 50 vs 1-2 for Maryland (KenPom #14).

[THRILLHOUSE]

Duke at #12 is about 7 - 10 spots too high as well. And UK at #19 is a bit high too, could argue they shouldn't be ranked at all.

[scoscox]

Having a pretty huge sample size at this point and saying those 5 teams are better than us, I just don't see it, but this poll also has Duke at 12 and UVA at 13, so it's kind of hard to take seriously.

[THRILLHOUSE]

#5 in the AP http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll

[BMoreX]

AP Poll #5

[Masterofreality]

AP Poll- Xavier up to 5th. Villanova 4th.

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll

Top 5 Baby! That's one hand!!!

By the way. USC enters both polls.

[GIMMFD]

Maryland is overrated. Villanova and WVU are both underrated. At least based on KenPom and Sagarin -- both of which I find far more meaningful than the RPI. (We are KenPom #8 and Sagarin #9.)

Big WVU fan, I've said it time and time again, it's just the press and forcing turnovers, they have a morbidly bad offense, can't shoot free throws worth shit, but that "Press Virginia" defense is MEAN. They'll force you to get out of your comfort zone, and if you don't have high IQ players, it can be a tricky situation. I watched all of the Kansas/WVU game and most of the Oklahoma/WVU game, they play great defense, but man it's bad when they can't hit a bucket. The truth is, there's no elite team this year, which makes life more interesting for us fans.

[LA Muskie]

Duke at #12 is about 7 - 10 spots too high as well. And UK at #19 is a bit high too, could argue they shouldn't be ranked at all.

Duke probably deserves to still be ranked. KenPom has them at 18, Sagarin at 16. But UK? They have no business being in the polls right now. But they could still bust some brackets if they make the tourney (and I presume they will, if for no other reason than they are UK).

[bleedXblue]

And now we wait for the lunacy of the coaches poll.......

[GoMuskies]

And now we wait for the lunacy of the coaches poll.......

You're an hour behind.

[XUFan09]

Since I tried to evaluate Maryland's wins/losses based off venue, I'll do it for Xavier too. Here are the teams in order of relative difficulty with tiers.

Loss - Road game vs. #1 Villanova
Win - Road game vs. #31 Michigan
Win - Neutral game vs. #22 USC
------------------------------------------
Win - Neutral game vs. #47 Dayton
Win - Road game vs. #103 Marquette
------------------------------------------
Win - Road game vs. #128 Wake Forest
Win - Home game vs. #33 Cincinnati
Win - Home game vs. #36 Butler
Win - Neutral game vs. #80 Alabama

So, Xavier is 2-1 vs the venue-adjusted Kenpom top 25, 4-1 vs. the top 50, and 8-1 vs. the top 80.

[LA Muskie]

Since I tried to evaluate Maryland's wins/losses based off venue, I'll do it for Xavier too. Here are the teams in order of relative difficulty with tiers.

Loss - Road game vs. #1 Villanova
Win - Road game vs. #31 Michigan
Win - Neutral game vs. #22 USC
------------------------------------------
Win - Neutral game vs. #47 Dayton
Win - Road game vs. #103 Marquette
------------------------------------------
Win - Road game vs. #128 Wake Forest
Win - Home game vs. #33 Cincinnati
Win - Home game vs. #36 Butler
Win - Neutral game vs. #80 Alabama

So, Xavier is 2-1 vs the venue-adjusted Kenpom top 25, 4-1 vs. the top 50, and 8-1 vs. the top 80.

What adjustment are you making for venue? Because I see 5-1 vs the top 50

[XU '11]

Since I tried to evaluate Maryland's wins/losses based off venue, I'll do it for Xavier too. Here are the teams in order of relative difficulty with tiers.

Loss - Road game vs. #1 Villanova
Win - Road game vs. #31 Michigan
Win - Neutral game vs. #22 USC
------------------------------------------
Win - Neutral game vs. #47 Dayton
Win - Road game vs. #103 Marquette
------------------------------------------
Win - Road game vs. #128 Wake Forest
Win - Home game vs. #33 Cincinnati
Win - Home game vs. #36 Butler
Win - Neutral game vs. #80 Alabama

So, Xavier is 2-1 vs the venue-adjusted Kenpom top 25, 4-1 vs. the top 50, and 8-1 vs. the top 80.

If you subscribe to KenPom, he does that on each team's page. Tags games as top 50 or top 100, adjusted for venue.

Maryland is 3-2 against top 50 competition, 1-0 against 51-100.
Xavier is 3-1 against the top 50, 5-0 against 51-100.

[XUFan09]

Big WVU fan, I've said it time and time again, it's just the press and forcing turnovers, they have a morbidly bad offense, can't shoot free throws worth shit, but that "Press Virginia" defense is MEAN. They'll force you to get out of your comfort zone, and if you don't have high IQ players, it can be a tricky situation. I watched all of the Kansas/WVU game and most of the Oklahoma/WVU game, they play great defense, but man it's bad when they can't hit a bucket. The truth is, there's no elite team this year, which makes life more interesting for us fans.

WVU is an interesting team to evaluate...They are the worst in the nation at sending opponents to the FT line, at 58.5% FTA/FGA, but they are the best in the nation at forcing turnovers, at 28.1% of best possessions. They are also #3 in the nation in opponents' three-point percentage and mediocre in terms of opponents' two-point percentage for a combined top 50 ranking in opponents' effective field goal percentage. They are a top 50 defensive rebounding team too. All in all, these extremes lead to them being the #2 defense in the nation.

On offense, they are a really bad shooting team who doesn't keep control of the ball, but they are #2 in offensive rebounding rate and they get to the line a lot (#5 in the nation), plus they apparently score effectively closer to the rim at #38 in two-point percentage. Just a weird team, once again, and they come in as the #29 offense in the nation.

[bobbiemcgee]

The Advocare Classic just keeps on giving with USC ranked #21.

[XUFan09]

What adjustment are you making for venue? Because I see 5-1 vs the top 50

I'm following another formula used by the Selection Committee for RPI purposes, as it should roughly translate. I forgot that Kenpom had his own formula now.

[GoMuskies]

The Advocare Classic just keeps on giving with USC ranked #21.

7 of the 8 teams that played in that tournament are currently receiving at least one vote in the poll.

[LA Muskie]

If you subscribe to KenPom, he does that on each team's page. Tags games as top 50 or top 100, adjusted for venue.

Maryland is 3-2 against top 50 competition, 1-0 against 51-100.
Xavier is 3-1 against the top 50, 5-0 against 51-100.
Thanks for letting me know that. I never even noticed those A and B marks until you mentioned it.

[X-band '01]

I'd argue USC should be ranked even higher than #21; they could vault even higher if they manage a win or two on their Oregon roadie this week.

We'll see just how real Maryland is when they go to play at Sparty's house this weekend.

[LA Muskie]

I'm following another formula used by the Selection Committee for RPI purposes, as it should roughly translate. I forgot that Kenpom had his own formula now. Where do you access that?

On the individual team page, there are A's and B's designated on the right side column. A is Top 50 adjusted; B is Top 100 adjusted. (I just learned this thanks to '11.)

[LA Muskie]

WVU is an interesting team to evaluate...They are the worst in the nation at sending opponents to the FT line, at 58.5% FTA/FGA, but they are the best in the nation at forcing turnovers, at 28.1% of best possessions. They are also #3 in the nation in opponents' three-point percentage and mediocre in terms of opponents' two-point percentage for a combined top 50 ranking in opponents' effective field goal percentage. They are a top 50 defensive rebounding team too. All in all, these extremes lead to them being the #2 defense in the nation.

On offense, they are a really bad shooting team who doesn't keep control of the ball, but they are #2 in offensive rebounding rate and they get to the line a lot (#5 in the nation), plus they apparently score effectively closer to the rim at #38 in two-point percentage. Just a weird team, once again, and they come in as the #29 offense in the nation.
Sounds to me they succeed at playing ugly. Which, let's be honest is a reflection on their coach. Their offense may look like shit, but at #29 they find ugly ways to score the ball.

[XUFan09]

On the individual team page, there are A's and B's designated on the right side column. A is Top 50 adjusted; B is Top 100 adjusted. (I just learned this thanks to '11.)

Yeah, I just edited my recent post because I saw that. I put Marquette in the top 50 tier, because they came in at #52, and the next team didn't come in until #70 (Wake Forest). That was more my manual adjustments than something that is technically correct, but I figure it doesn't hurt when the Selection Committee does that all the time. ;-)

[XUFan09]

Sounds to me they succeed at playing ugly. Which, let's be honest is a reflection on their coach. Their offense may look like shit, but at #29 they find ugly ways to score the ball.

Yup. Because of that, though, I would never think them to be worthy of a #1 seed and their resume will probably end up proving that. Their game is so dependent on certain factors, and if those factors don't work out, they are in serious trouble.

[bleedXblue]

Gonzaga out of both polls. :)

[letskeepitreal]

WVU may win ugly but their defensive pressure at times is very intense. Although I don't really follow much of their stats, I would imagine that they force a lot of turnovers

[XUFan09]

Although I don't really follow much of their stats, I would imagine that they force a lot of turnovers

Like I said above, #1 in the country at 28.1% of possessions.

[XUMIOH12]

Like I said above, #1 in the country at 28.1% of possessions.

dont feel like looking it up again, but when i checked a week or two ago, they were forcing over 22 turnovers per game

[OTRMUSKIE]

Well I will go,to Dana's and drink my captain and Coke since I lost the bet. Still think X should be ranked 4th but top 5 sure is nice!!!!!!!

[94GRAD]

Well I will go,to Dana's and drink my captain and Coke since I lost the bet. Still think X should be ranked 4th but top 5 sure is nice!!!!!!!

The Special tomorrow is $15 Captain and Coke's. :crazy:

[STL_XUfan]

This week:

We love the noble Gentleman from East Lansing: Graham Couch

and

Hate the pompous jack ass from San Jose: Jon Wilner

http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/xu/2015

[GIMMFD]

WVU is an interesting team to evaluate...They are the worst in the nation at sending opponents to the FT line, at 58.5% FTA/FGA, but they are the best in the nation at forcing turnovers, at 28.1% of best possessions. They are also #3 in the nation in opponents' three-point percentage and mediocre in terms of opponents' two-point percentage for a combined top 50 ranking in opponents' effective field goal percentage. They are a top 50 defensive rebounding team too. All in all, these extremes lead to them being the #2 defense in the nation.

On offense, they are a really bad shooting team who doesn't keep control of the ball, but they are #2 in offensive rebounding rate and they get to the line a lot (#5 in the nation), plus they apparently score effectively closer to the rim at #38 in two-point percentage. Just a weird team, once again, and they come in as the #29 offense in the nation.

Jonathon Holton and Devin Williams rebound offensively very well, kind of like Farr and Reynolds. They get majority of their points with guards driving in and being aggressive, or put backs from bad shots. They cannot shoot the 3 ball well, if they had one pure shooter even it would help them out tremendously, the Oklahoma game was very winnable for them, and they should have stomped UVA, but when the shots don't fall, and teams have other bigs that can rebound well and keep them off the offensive glass, it's practically kryptonite. Huggins admits to not being able to score, and that's why he uses the press.

[letskeepitreal]

Dick Vitale, Mark Berman and Seth Davis had us at #6 and John Rothstein had us at #8. What the hell were these guys thinking? Piss on them all!

[chico]

AP Poll- Xavier up to 5th. Villanova 4th.

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll

Top 5 Baby! That's one hand!!!

By the way. USC enters both polls.

I guess we can now say Finally 5.

[skyking]

Dick Vitale, Mark Berman and Seth Davis had us at #6 and John Rothstein had us at #8. What the hell were these guys thinking? Piss on them all!

But Graham Couch of the Lansing State Journal has us as a "2". He is clearly the smartest man on the panel. (I may get a subscription.)

[Masterofreality]

I guess we can now say Finally 5.

I'm still waiting for my 2004 "Final 5" T shirt from Snipe....or was it Fred Garvin?

Been so long, I can't recall.

[chico]

I'm still waiting for my 2004 "Final 5" T shirt from Snipe....or was it Fred Garvin?

Been so long, I can't recall.

I think it was Snipe.

This might be a good year for a return trip to Vegas - maybe an XH trip there for the first round. We'd bring that place to it's knees.

[paulxu]

The power of name/history/etc.

XU 16-1 RPI 3 SOS 10 AP #5

UNC 16-2 RPI 5 SOS 29 AP #2

[GoMuskies]

I think it was Snipe.

This might be a good year for a return trip to Vegas - maybe an XH trip there for the first round. We'd bring that place to it's knees.

How about St. Louis instead?

[LA Muskie]

On the other hand, UNC is ahead of us in both KenPom and Sagarin metrics. So maybe it's not just about the name on the front of the jersey...


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[chico]

How about St. Louis instead?

How about Vegas and Houston?

[D-West & PO-Z]

How about Vegas and Houston?

I've got the Vegas part locked up and if we make it to Houston I'll be there too.

[paulxu]

I'm fascinated by how easy we have settled into being in the top 10 in the country.
It's as if we have been here all along, and just sort of roll with it.
Suppose it's natural to some extent, but truth be told it's unusual (and I'm loving it!)

The season is a meat grinder and I'm enjoying every turn of the crank.
We "expect" to beat Georgetown...that's a far cry from the days when we "might" win against that sort of competition.
It's been a slow build over the years to get here, and a fun ride.
The challenge will be to stay at this level and earn the Villanova type respect on a year in/year out basis.
One Final Four will go a long, long way towards that goal.

[GoMuskies]

We "expect" to beat Georgetown...that's a far cry from the days when we "might" win against that sort of competition.



Honestly, it's been a really, really long time since we would not have expected to win at home against a team of the caliber coming to Cintas tonight.

[xubrew]

I think Oklahoma is better than we are. I know they didn't win at Iowa State or at Kansas, but those are actually tougher games to win than winning in the Final Four because they're true road games against teams that never lose at home (well, except to Baylor).

Other than that, I'm not sure anyone else clearly is. Not even Villanova. Now, Nova is clearly better than we are when they're at the Pavilion, and they're a bad match up for us, so they'd probably beat us more times than not. BUT, I think Xavier is capable of beating teams that are just a terrible match up for Nova. Nova relies so much on outside shooting, and playing at home gives them an even bigger advantage than most other teams for that reason. I don't think we get crushed by Oklahoma and Virginia quite like they did, and if anything I think Xavier could beat Virginia.

I think we're #2 or #3. I really do. People may accuse me of being a homer, but keep in mind that I'm also oftentimes accused of being a pessimist. We are REAALLLLY freakin' good!!

[xuwin]

I think Oklahoma is better than we are. I know they didn't win at Iowa State or at Kansas, but those are actually tougher games to win than winning in the Final Four because they're true road games against teams that never lose at home (well, except to Baylor).

Other than that, I'm not sure anyone else clearly is. Not even Villanova. Now, Nova is clearly better than we are when they're at the Pavilion, and they're a bad match up for us, so they'd probably beat us more times than not. BUT, I think Xavier is capable of beating teams that are just a terrible match up for Nova. Nova relies so much on outside shooting, and playing at home gives them an even bigger advantage than most other teams for that reason. I don't think we get crushed by Oklahoma and Virginia quite like they did, and if anything I think Xavier could beat Virginia.

I think we're #2 or #3. I really do. People may accuse me of being a homer, but keep in mind that I'm also oftentimes accused of being a pessimist. We are REAALLLLY freakin' good!!

I'm not sure that Oklahoma is better than we are. They only go about 6 deep and are showing signs of wearing down. I watched the Oklahoma/Iowa St game last night and neither team had any depth at all. Both teams were gassed at the end. Xavier would not be in that position at the end of the game with our depth. I'm not sure that there are any teams that can go as deep as we can at every position with quality players.

[xubrew]

I'm not sure that Oklahoma is better than we are. They only go about 6 deep and are showing signs of wearing down. I watched the Oklahoma/Iowa St game last night and neither team had any depth at all. Both teams were gassed at the end. Xavier would not be in that position at the end of the game with our depth. I'm not sure that there are any teams that can go as deep as we can at every position with quality players.

Perhaps. But, keep in mind that we have only played one game in an environment like that, and it didn't go well. I think Oklahoma wins both of the games they lost if they're not true road games. Hell, they almost won both of them as it was. But, I see your point about their depth.

[paulxu]

Polls and bracket placements are fluid throughout the year.
Near the end, most of them get things close to right on selection Sunday.
This guy (I think) is now being used by the committee along with RPI.
I'd like to stay in his top 4 all year right where we are. (OK, change places with Nova.)

http://www.kpisports.net/rankings/kpibasketball/

[Masterofreality]

I'm fascinated by how easy we have settled into being in the top 10 in the country.
It's as if we have been here all along, and just sort of roll with it.
Suppose it's natural to some extent, but truth be told it's unusual (and I'm loving it!)
.

I'm actually of the opinion that those of us who are close to the program KNOW we've been here all along, but the rest of the world is surprised. Like I've said many times before, "Xavier is an overnight sensation 30 years in the making" but we've been there for a long time. For whatever reason, unlike Gone-zaga, we've never had that big media advocate to push our agenda. How many times have we discussed on numerous boards how we should be ranked higher, or ranked at all? Hey, Gone-zaga doesn't have a Final Four either, but no one has ever given Xavier a hint of their juice.

Screw it. #BustTheF-IngDoorDown