Most delicious non-conference W

[JAPER]

Pick an opponent that was the most savory victory in the Fall semester, non-conference season, 2015-style.

I'd pick Michigan.

Merry Christmas...

[drudy23]

No contest.

[D-West & PO-Z]

This is tough for me. I could go UM because it was the first big game and on the road and I was there but I think I lean towards either UC (there too and always great to beat sUCks) or UD because, ya know, we killed them and it was so fun to watch.

Think I'll go sUCks followed by UD and UM.

[Juice]

No contest.

Absolutely. It's UC. It's our in town rival and also the best win on the schedule so far based on KenPom rankings.

[Emp]

Dayton. Just shut up, okay? How does Forever work for you?

[JAPER]

Win at Big 10 team on the road compared to aack team at home? I may be biased but I think Michigan will do well in the new year. Both W's tasty...

[spursy]

I think wake will end up being better than Michigan at the end of the year, making the comeback victory that much better. We won our road tests. But goddamn, beating Dayton by 29 to win an early season tournament felt really freaking good.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[MADXSTER]

Michigan was awesome. That game showed everyone the possibilities. UC, nough said. VD 30 point ass kicking is gonna get my vote.

[XMuskieFTW]

I mean if I hadn't gone to any id say UC, but I was front row at the Michigan game and euphoria that that game brought was higher than any one I've watched on tv this year so I have to go Mich personally.

[Xavier]

I don't think Michigan is too good but they might still make the tournament. For me it's UC easily. Then likely a tie between UD and Wake. 18 point come back? That was sweet.

[X-Fan]

I was tempted to pick Wake, but it was only so exhilarating because of the bad 1st half.

Not to sound like a jerk, but UC was more of a relief than tasty. Pregame I felt X was clearly the better team, so I was only worried about a crazy loss.

Vd, meh. Great to destroy them, but they really didn't belong on the same court as X.

All that said, it had to be Michigan. I was there. On the road, ranked B1G team, and X beasted them. Every time Mich made a run, X had the answer. Total team effort on both ends of the court. It was awesome!!!!

[Kahns Krazy]

Shaking off a tradition of shitting our pants in exempt tournaments, with VD being kind enough to make the final and get a vintage Jimmy Carter thumping? That's the winner for me this year. I love beating UC but we get to do that every year.

[X-man]

The Vd win, while less important than our wins at Michigan or Wake, was the most "tasty" win for me because it was such a humiliation for that loser fan base of theirs. It will not likely change their delusional belief that they can play with the big boys, but it has to gnaw at them in the back of their tiny brains. That said, I am totally fine with that win being our last game with those losers.

[xu82]

I selfishly had to vote "other" for the Auburn win. I was at the double OT loss last year and the revenge game at Cintas this year. Very satisfying to send scoreboard photos to my Auburn buddies.

[XUMIOH12]

for me it was Dayton, because we crushed them, and wont be playing them again anytime soon. They will have to sit with that loss for years.

[OTRMUSKIE]

VD hands down was awesome. Their fan base for whatever reason believed that were on the same level as X. After that win and seeing that they arnt that good this year is so fulfilling for me. After Arch leaves this year that program will be sooooo thankful they are in the A10 where they can compete again for 8th place and a NIT bid.

[MuskiePimp23]

This is tough for me. I could go UM because it was the first big game and on the road and I was there but I think I lean towards either UC (there too and always great to beat sUCks) or vd because, ya know, we killed them and it was so fun to watch.

Think I'll go sUCks followed by vd and UM.

Fixed it for you.

[gladdenguy]

I voted Wake. The 2nd half comeback showed this team is both mentally and physically tough as nails. Add to it that this team hadn't trailed by more than 7 points in any game. They trailed by 18 on the road.
Then if that weren't enough it took them 2 minutes to get back in the game. Also went up 9 late, gave up an 8-0 run to put Wake within 1 and still ended up covering the 7 point line.
Also, Farr and Reynolds were in foul trouble the entire game. Mack did a fantastic job handling that.

Just an unbelievable win tapping off the non conference schedule.

[xeus]

I think Michigan was the most important win, but I have to go with VD for the most delicious. UC is always great, but the fact that VD was an absolute smackdown was just perfect.

[Masterofreality]

SucKS......always.

But boat racing the Cryers to a drowning was pretty sweet.

[joe titan]

I am slightly surprised that more who voted Michigan omitted the fact that Michigan knocked off XU in NIT and NCAA games in not so distant past. That little bit of payback enhances some flavor for the win there this year.

[xubrew]

I am slightly surprised that more who voted Michigan omitted the fact that Michigan knocked off XU in NIT and NCAA games in not so distant past. That little bit of payback enhances some flavor for the win there this year.

Michigan and Xavier last met in the NCAA Tournament in 1989. None of the players on either team were even born yet. Hell, most of their parents probably hadn't even met yet. I don't think it qualifies as payback if none of the current players had anything to do with the last meeting.

[bobbiemcgee]

Crushing VD and bringing home the trophy was the best given our spotty tournament results of recent years. Loved Mack with the Big East pullover to emphasize the fact they weren't invited and were playing against a different breed. Where is the Blackburn-Mc Cafferty?

[xubrew]

Crushing VD and bringing home the trophy was the best given our spotty tournament results of recent years. Loved Mack with the Big East pullover to emphasize the fact they weren't invited and were playing against a different breed. Where is the Blackburn-Mc Cafferty?

Let 'em keep it. If/when we do resume the series, we'll bring our trophy and they can bring theirs.

[jhelmes37]

I'd have to say Michigan.

NOBODY picked us to win. NOBODY.

And we manhandled them. And turned the upper end zone into an XU home game.

That was the game where everyone collectively said......"we may just have something here........"

[MuskiePimp23]

I'd have to say Michigan.

NOBODY picked us to win. NOBODY.

And we manhandled them. And turned the upper end zone into an XU home game.

That was the game where everyone collectively said......"we may just have something here........"

I assume you are talking National writers picking us? Myron Medcalf of ESPN picked us to win.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I assume you are talking National writers picking us? Myron Medcalf of ESPN picked us to win.

Less than 50% of our own fans on this board picked us to win.

[Drew]

VD and it's not even close. Don't know how many here frequent the Holy Land of Hoops, but that fanbase went from posting non stop drivel to completely quiet after that game. It has increased my quality of life substantialy.

[jimbob]

VD.

Mrs Jimbob and I are keeping that game on our DVR. We have it cued to 0:54 left in the second half when the camera zooms in on the shell-shocked doofus sitting on the Flyer bench contemplating the series of poor life choices that led him to his present predicament. We play it every now and again for a good laugh.

[Milhouse]

UD and its not even close.

I was at the game and we stayed at the team hotel. At the game it was 80% flyer fans 20% xavier. At the Hotel I'd say it was probably a 7-8 to 1 ratio. Literally seeing them all week, high fiving each other etc...

I LOVED being at the game (also wearing my Big East T-Shirt & Hat) and just being able to walk around so boastful for the 24 hours following the game. Heck even running into tons of UD fans at the airport the next day. There was NOTHING they could say but "Xavier looks really really good".

The rhetoric leading up to the game was all "Xavier is trying to keep us out of the BE, Xavier is scared, etc..."

Just being there for the 30 pt beatdown with it basically being an away game was definitely one of my favorite X memories.

[Masterofreality]

VD and it's not even close. Don't know how many here frequent the Holy Land of Hoops, but that fanbase went from posting non stop drivel to completely quiet after that game. It has increased my quality of life substantialy.

Trust me. Cryers are not letting that "VD to the BE" narrative die. My nephew (who we have NO control over) and his wife are huge VD honks and grads. Their non-stop commentary all though the Holidays is that the league just cannot keep vdump out, then they list delusional reasons, that are only significant to them, why the inclusion is only a matter of time. Uh, no.

The bloated self-importance that the Cryers show is comical, and hilariously so.

And although I picked beating the Borecats, because it always is the sweetest every year, I cannot deny the richness of the win in Orlando, plus the genius clever trolling by one Chris Mack with his very fashionable Big East pullover outer shirt.
Just outstanding.

BTW. One last thing. Have you noticed that not just Xavier, but NO Big East team will play VD? This despite past long term games between schools like Marquette, DePaul and others? There is a reason for that. VD is on no BE radar screen, anywhere.

[UCGRAD4X]

Thanks, Jasper, for the opportunity to put the OOC in perspective over the long break.

This is such a cerebral group (slight sarcasm font inactive) that the thread hinges on the word delicious (and I am assuming you chose the term carefully - but I could be wrong...and often am).

Michigan may have been the most important to getting Xavier noticed nationally. As was mentioned, almost nobody, and only the disillusionally irrational on this board (present company included) picked them to win. Until the Wake game it was the only true road game. Previously unranked, 4th place pick in an under-respected conference, spanked a Big10 name in their "B1G" house. I think a lot of people decided to start paying more attention to X at that point.

If I am to consider the word delicious more carefully - I can see a great case for the vd game for the reasons already covered. First - it was dayton - so - duh! Secondly, it was such a thoroughly delicious spanking that maybe, JUST MAYBE, it will tamp down the cryers to the BE dillusion coming from the great-blight-north. But most important, IMHO, was the terrible early season tourney runs of the recent past. My personal expectations were pretty low, however 'good' I though the team was (is) - I just did not trust the format.

It is always satisfying to beat UC, and I have personal reasons to make this especially true - but was expected.

The WAKE game answered (at least to some degree) the response to adversity question. It is also a game a part of me had admitted "well, it is inevitable that they would lose at some point" and then so proud to have been proven wrong. This is a game so may past teams would have lost - and this team probably should have. The simple fact is, they didn't, and in fairly spectacular fashion.

Another important factor is that WAKE happens to be the most recent victory. With my poor memory and attention span that is always a consideration.

So my vote for 'delicious' has to go to the Orlando finale.

Other games have carried their own significance that would warrant a vote in a poll with a different flavor.

[Xpectations]

Most years, I would say UC. But this season, the Dayton game meant more, primarily because of how we beat them down in such spectacular fashion. Leading up to the Shootout, most UC fans I knew were simply hoping to keep it close. Even though they felt Mick had his best team, they knew XU had zipped right past them.

Leading up to the Dayton game, I kept hearing how Archie had placed them on equal footing with X ... how X was afraid to play them ... how this was their best team since their glory days ... how they deserved to be in the Big East ... how it would be XU's worst nightmare if they had to play UD in Orlando ... etc.

Mack and the guys basically sent them home crying. They were forced to deal with the reality that they aren't even close to being on XU's level, though I still hear delusions that the top half of the A-10 is on par with the top half of the Big East, which is beyond laughable.

UD fans can't handle the truth.

[XU-XHI]

Most years it would be UC no matter what but this time I had to vote VD since they begged and begged for the game and then got what they asked for + some.

[MuskieXU]

Beating UC will always be the most satisfying to me, but Dayton could very well end up being the most important non-conference victory of the year.

[muethibp]

Beating the absolute tar out of Dayton was easily my most enjoyable viewing experience.

[muethibp]

Trust me. Cryers are not letting that "VD to the BE" narrative die. My nephew (who we have NO control over) and his wife are huge VD honks and grads. Their non-stop commentary all though the Holidays is that the league just cannot keep vdump out, then they list delusional reasons, that are only significant to them, why the inclusion is only a matter of time. Uh, no.

The bloated self-importance that the Cryers show is comical, and hilariously so.

And although I picked beating the Borecats, because it always is the sweetest every year, I cannot deny the richness of the win in Orlando, plus the genius clever trolling by one Chris Mack with his very fashionable Big East pullover outer shirt.
Just outstanding.

BTW. One last thing. Have you noticed that not just Xavier, but NO Big East team will play VD? This despite past long term games between schools like Marquette, DePaul and others? There is a reason for that. VD is on no BE radar screen, anywhere.

I don't ever see it working out for Dayton in the Big East.

For Dayton to get it, first the BE has to want to expand. That the true round robin - one of the last around - is fantastic appears to be an almost unanimous view among fans and the schools. It's almost certainly undoable with 12 schools. Financially, the FS1 deal is for like 10 more years so there's no pressing need to expand to satisfy television partners. And why would they want to cut two more schools into that deal anyway?

If there is expansion, it's also not clear to me that Dayton adds anything. If the BE wants to add, it will be to add two new markets for television purposes. St. Louis is the most logical add: it fits culturally (Catholic) and geographically as a bridge to Creighton and as a western rival for Marquette and Depaul, and adds a nice new television market. So then there's just one spot left.

UD fits culturally but adds nothing regarding television. Either is lumped into the Cincinnati TV market - which Xavier covers - or if it is considered its own market, then it's basically a non-event.

Richmond or VCU would probably make more sense as the 12th team. Or maybe even Duquesne if they can continue to not be terrible.

[waggy]

Smaller is better. Expansion benefits football conferences maybe. But the BE would be fools to expand.

[XU 87]

I don't ever see it working out for Dayton in the Big East.

For Dayton to get it, first the BE has to want to expand. That the true round robin - one of the last around - is fantastic appears to be an almost unanimous view among fans and the schools. It's almost certainly undoable with 12 schools. Financially, the FS1 deal is for like 10 more years so there's no pressing need to expand to satisfy television partners. And why would they want to cut two more schools into that deal anyway?

If there is expansion, it's also not clear to me that Dayton adds anything. If the BE wants to add, it will be to add two new markets for television purposes. St. Louis is the most logical add: it fits culturally (Catholic) and geographically as a bridge to Creighton and as a western rival for Marquette and Depaul, and adds a nice new television market. So then there's just one spot left.

UD fits culturally but adds nothing regarding television. Either is lumped into the Cincinnati TV market - which Xavier covers - or if it is considered its own market, then it's basically a non-event.

Richmond or VCU would probably make more sense as the 12th team. Or maybe even Duquesne if they can continue to not be terrible.

Good stuff. I don't see the BE expanding unless the new team/market brings in higher tv revenues. I don't think the Dayton/Montgomery County market adds much for tv revenue purposes. There's a reason about 20 years ago UD was left out of the formation of Conference USA when Marquette and DePaul were included.

[STL_XUfan]

Good stuff. I don't see the BE expanding unless the new team/market brings in higher tv revenues. I don't think the Dayton/Montgomery County market adds much for tv revenue purposes. There's a reason about 20 years ago UD was left out of the formation of Conference USA when Marquette and DePaul were included.

Honest question, with FS1 already being a standard package across the US, why do television markets really matter? I mean sure, more TVs in STL will flip on FS1 if SLU is playing, but will that bump be enough to make up for a subpar game?

Wouldn't the better strategy be to have more big games that draw national attention? Xavier and Butler have tiny fanbases, but I bet #6 v. #9 will cause a lot of people to flip on the game all across the US. Therefore, don't we want to concentrate on adding teams that increase the competitiveness of the conference, rather than trying to concentrate on new markets?

[UCGRAD4X]

Honest question, with FS1 already being a standard package across the US, why do television markets really matter? I mean sure, more TVs in STL will flip on FS1 if SLU is playing, but will that bump be enough to make up for a subpar game?

Wouldn't the better strategy be to have more big games that draw national attention? Xavier and Butler have tiny fanbases, but I bet #6 v. #9 will cause a lot of people to flip on the game all across the US. Therefore, don't we want to concentrate on adding teams that increase the competitiveness of the conference, rather than trying to concentrate on new markets?

I guess part of the theory is that, once in the Big East, a team will be better able to recruit, get better by scheduling and playing good competition, make and advance in the tournament more consistently....recruit...better...etc.

Having a larger market and fanbase helps either way.

[xubrew]

Two things...

1. The Big East shouldn't add ANYONE, unless TWO teams leave. Not anyone. Not ever. There isn't a single basketball conference that has gotten a higher percentage of teams in by playing an unbalanced schedule than they did when they played a balanced schedule. Only once did the Old Big East get more than half their teams in once they went past ten. The ACC never did it once they went past ten, and they used to do it more often than not.

Now, having said that....

2. People need to realize and accept that Dayton is a separate television market from Cincinnati. It has different local affiliates, and if I'm not mistaken it even has different providers. But, perhaps most importantly, Nielsen, which is the gold standard for ratings, says it's a different market. IT'S A DIFFERENT MARKET!! Saying that Dayton and Xavier are in the same television market is kind of like saying the Indians and Reds are both in the National League. It's just factually not true and people who try and say that it is sound utterly ridiculous.

[XU 87]

Honest question, with FS1 already being a standard package across the US, why do television markets really matter? I mean sure, more TVs in STL will flip on FS1 if SLU is playing, but will that bump be enough to make up for a subpar game?

Wouldn't the better strategy be to have more big games that draw national attention? Xavier and Butler have tiny fanbases, but I bet #6 v. #9 will cause a lot of people to flip on the game all across the US. Therefore, don't we want to concentrate on adding teams that increase the competitiveness of the conference, rather than trying to concentrate on new markets?

I think you raise valid points. I'm not sure of the answers, other than league affiliations are now basically based on tv markets (See Big Ten for example, although the Big Ten wants the Big Ten Network in these markets, which is why Rutgers and Maryland are in the Big Ten.)

[xubrew]

Honest question, with FS1 already being a standard package across the US, why do television markets really matter? I mean sure, more TVs in STL will flip on FS1 if SLU is playing, but will that bump be enough to make up for a subpar game?

Wouldn't the better strategy be to have more big games that draw national attention? Xavier and Butler have tiny fanbases, but I bet #6 v. #9 will cause a lot of people to flip on the game all across the US. Therefore, don't we want to concentrate on adding teams that increase the competitiveness of the conference, rather than trying to concentrate on new markets?

That's a really good question that people have different opinions on.

I personally would argue that it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the number of overall viewers. But, others look at what the ratings are in the individual markets. So, if the overall national rating is a 0.1 with around 300k viewers, but the rating in the Cincinnati market is a close to a 9 or 10 (or higher), then it enables advertisers and providers to target the Cincinnati area.

[XUFan09]

Honest question, with FS1 already being a standard package across the US, why do television markets really matter? I mean sure, more TVs in STL will flip on FS1 if SLU is playing, but will that bump be enough to make up for a subpar game?

Wouldn't the better strategy be to have more big games that draw national attention? Xavier and Butler have tiny fanbases, but I bet #6 v. #9 will cause a lot of people to flip on the game all across the US. Therefore, don't we want to concentrate on adding teams that increase the competitiveness of the conference, rather than trying to concentrate on new markets?
I agree with this, as the worst thing to do would be to water down the basketball product for the sake of quantity.

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[XU 87]

Two things...


2. People need to realize and accept that Dayton is a separate television market from Cincinnati. It has different local affiliates, and if I'm not mistaken it even has different providers. But, perhaps most importantly, Nielsen, which is the gold standard for ratings, says it's a different market. IT'S A DIFFERENT MARKET!! Saying that Dayton and Xavier are in the same television market is kind of like saying the Indians and Reds are both in the National League. It's just factually not true and people who try and say that it is sound utterly ridiculous.

That's true, but because VD didn't get in either the BE or the Conference USA, it seems that the VD market isn't very important to tv. It's a relatively small and isolated market.

[Milhouse]

You are mistaken on the different providers part - same cable provider- those are NEARLY all zoned by state, but in some counties on state borders it can get a little funky. Time Warner Cable is the most prevelant cable provider in Dayton with +/- 55% and then it's Dish & Direct TV. Dayton does have some AT&T up north but I think its less than 1% of the population. AT&T has a do not compete clause that overlaps with TWC I believe it is, so you'll rarely find both in the same market.

Used to work in TV.

TV RTGs are declining nearly everywhere. How FS1 responds digitally will be a bigger deciding factor on the future of the network than anything.

What we need is for FS1 to go all in on B1G. If they can lock that down it'll be even better for us.

[xubrew]

That's true, but because VD didn't get in either the BE or the Conference USA, it seems that the VD market isn't very important to tv. It's a relatively small and isolated market.

It's fair to say that it's small and isolated. It's just flat out incorrect to say it's the same as Cincinnati. I was just making that point because people seem to want to insist that they're in the same market as Xavier, and they're not.

[xudash]

http://www.tvb.org/media/file/2015-2016-dma-ranks.pdf

They are not in the same television market.

And Fox, the President of Georgetown, the President of Villanova, the President of Marquette, et al, the Big East offices in New York and anyone else remotely connected to the success of the Big East on the media presence side could not give a rats ass about the 64th rated television market in the United States.

[wkrq59]

Michigan was awesome. That game showed everyone the possibilities. UC, nough said. VD 30 point ass kicking is gonna get my vote.

Michigan for many reasons. True road game, very, very tough place to win. Remy Abell took over that game at the start. He had been there twice with Ind. and provided a mature leadership that showed how XU could and did win. HEY, 16 point victory on a Big Ten team's home floor is the stuff NCAA tournament resumes are built on.

[XU 87]

http://www.tvb.org/media/file/2015-2016-dma-ranks.pdf

They are not in the same television market.

And Fox, the President of Georgetown, the President of Villanova, the President of Marquette, et al, the Big East offices in New York and anyone else remotely connected to the success of the Big East on the media presence side could not give a rats ass about the 64th rated television market in the United States.

Dayton market is at least bigger than the Omaha market.

One thing- Cincinnati has a larger metro population than Columbus (by more than 100,000). Does anyone know how Columbus can be a bigger tv market than Cincinnati (by more than 50,000)?

[paulxu]

Holy crap! The Spartanburg market is next in line to Cincinnati! Let's get Wofford in the BE.

(OK, I admit it also includes Greenville, Anderson and Asheville. BTW, Asheville is farther from Sptn/Grnv than Dayton is from Cincinnati. And although Dayton may be a different measurable media market for Nielson, I bet there's a lot of overlap. I wonder how many Dayton people watch Cincinnati broadcasted stuff.)

[XUFan09]

Dayton market is at least bigger than the Omaha market.

One thing- Cincinnati has a larger metro population than Columbus (by more than 100,000). Does anyone know how Columbus can be a bigger tv market than Cincinnati (by more than 50,000)?
Does the Columbus market include "nearby" towns, like Wilmington and Waynesville (that are about half way to Cincinnati, actually)?

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[xudash]

Yes, keep in mind that I posted Nielsen rating data, and they measure things their own way.

MSA data are as follows: http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

There is no reason to compare Omaha to Dayton in all this, so far as Omaha - Creighton - made it to the club already.

VD fans love to argue against the Jesuit conspiracy, and I love reading about that every time they do that.

[xubrew]

You are mistaken on the different providers part - same cable provider- those are NEARLY all zoned by state, but in some counties on state borders it can get a little funky. Time Warner Cable is the most prevelant cable provider in Dayton with +/- 55% and then it's Dish & Direct TV. Dayton does have some AT&T up north but I think its less than 1% of the population. AT&T has a do not compete clause that overlaps with TWC I believe it is, so you'll rarely find both in the same market.

Used to work in TV.

TV RTGs are declining nearly everywhere. How FS1 responds digitally will be a bigger deciding factor on the future of the network than anything.

What we need is for FS1 to go all in on B1G. If they can lock that down it'll be even better for us.

Thanks for clarifying about the providers. But, if you used to work in TV then you know that Dayton is a separate market.

TV ratings are declining for several reasons. There are more games on now than ever before, so if the same number of people are watching basketball but have more games to choose from, the ratings are going to be lower.

A lot of traditional and regional rivalries are gone, which is less interesting to the casual fan.

A lot more games are on cable instead of free to air local networks. As recently as ten years ago ESPN U, NBC Sports, and CBS Sports didn't exist. Games were on local affiliates, which meant in that city even people without cable were able to watch. Now, there are a lot more games on networks that you need more than just basic cable to access.

In a nutshell, there are more games on more channels than ever before, but not as many people get those channels, and what is on isn't as interesting to the casual fans as a lot of the old rivalries and match ups used to be. You have fewer people watching with a lot more games to choose from, which means less viewers per game. The casual person living in Missouri probably used to watch when the games were on free to air local networks, and when they were playing their old conference rivals from the Big Eight/Big Twelve. Those same people aren't going to pay extra for the SEC Network to see them play against Auburn, Tennessee, and Georgia.

[paulxu]

You are mistaken on the different providers part - same cable provider- those are NEARLY all zoned by state, but in some counties on state borders it can get a little funky.

I've never worked in TV. But I think, if it is correct, the bolded part is Dayton's biggest problem in joining the BE.
Ohio is covered with X, just like Indiana with Butler.
If Fox regionalizes some BE games, as they have done already in our OOC schedule, then you want more states...not more schools in the same state.

[Drew]

Jesus. Dayton could grow by 30 million residents and they still aren't getting in. Because they are trash.

[xubrew]

I've never worked in TV. But I think, if it is correct, the bolded part is Dayton's biggest problem in joining the BE.
Ohio is covered with X, just like Indiana with Butler.
If Fox regionalizes some BE games, as they have done already in our OOC schedule, then you want more states...not more schools in the same state.

It's my understanding that Fox had nothing to do with who got in and who didn't. Dayton's biggest problem is that the current Big East membership doesn't want to expand.

[XU 23]

Jesus. Dayton could grow by 30 million residents and they still aren't getting in. Because they are trash.

Who wants to live in Dayton?

[Nigel Tufnel]

Does the Columbus market include "nearby" towns, like Wilmington and Waynesville (that are about half way to Cincinnati, actually)?

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No way Columbus includes Wilmington or Waynesville. Waynesville is likely Dayton and Wilmington is Cincinnati. But Columbus has Reynoldsburg, Circleville, Grove City, and a lot of other suburbs, probably going as far south as Washington Court House and as far north as Delaware.

[paulxu]

It's my understanding that Fox had nothing to do with who got in and who didn't. Dayton's biggest problem is that the current Big East membership doesn't want to expand.

I wasn't implying that Fox made the decision. I was trying to point out that the BE presidents might want to maximize everything about the league, and if they chose to expand might use the state zoning impact of cable set-up as part of their decision process. Fox wouldn't decide, but as their financial partner would probably have some input at the table.

[Milhouse]

Thanks for clarifying about the providers. But, if you used to work in TV then you know that Dayton is a separate market.

TV ratings are declining for several reasons. There are more games on now than ever before, so if the same number of people are watching basketball but have more games to choose from, the ratings are going to be lower.

A lot of traditional and regional rivalries are gone, which is less interesting to the casual fan.

A lot more games are on cable instead of free to air local networks. As recently as ten years ago ESPN U, NBC Sports, and CBS Sports didn't exist. Games were on local affiliates, which meant in that city even people without cable were able to watch. Now, there are a lot more games on networks that you need more than just basic cable to access.

In a nutshell, there are more games on more channels than ever before, but not as many people get those channels, and what is on isn't as interesting to the casual fans as a lot of the old rivalries and match ups used to be. You have fewer people watching with a lot more games to choose from, which means less viewers per game. The casual person living in Missouri probably used to watch when the games were on free to air local networks, and when they were playing their old conference rivals from the Big Eight/Big Twelve. Those same people aren't going to pay extra for the SEC Network to see them play against Auburn, Tennessee, and Georgia.

Right it is a seperate market. I never said it wasn't. And it's actually a pretty high sports market, usually does better numbers in college basketball and football than Cincinnati even. But it's still a small market.

I'd actually argue you have more people watching/paying attention than EVER before. But you're right that it is far more segmented. You can be in New York and catch every Xavier game on TV or follow along on your phone. Previously that wasn't possible even 15 years ago.

There used to be a handful of games on nationally, now nearly every game is broadcast through some cable provider.

[Milhouse]

Does the Columbus market include "nearby" towns, like Wilmington and Waynesville (that are about half way to Cincinnati, actually)?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

There's a lot of small towns that are overlapped in cases like this. Even as far north as Springboro cable stations will still carry Dayton & Cincinnati affiliates. There's usually an overlap counted by nielsen too, but there's a lot of political "gerrymandering" when it comes to Nielsen zones as well.

All this will be moot in 20 years or so I imagine.

[MuskieXU]

I understand Dayton is a different TV market than Xavier but I dont necessarily think its about adding "new markets" as much as it is about expanding your conference footprint. Adding a completely new state to the conference in Missouri by adding SLU accomplishes a lot more than adding a city 45 minutes away from a current member. People in Dayton, especially Dayton fans, are already very much aware of the Big East and I would venture to say a lot of them probably watch Xavier and BE games if for no other reason than to root against the conference that snubbed them. I know I am very much in tune with whats going on in the AAC or A10 because of Dayton or UC, but have no idea whats going on with the WCC or WAC even though they are comparable leagues. With that in mind, adding St. Louis or another new geography to the BE attracts not only SLU fans but probably also draws eyes from other schools in the state and has a much bigger overall impact than simply adding a new city thats a stones throw from a current member.

To be clear, I do not think we should or will add SLU but if we expand I think they would be the first to get the invite. A tiny part of me is still holding out hope that we could find a way to add Gonzaga (Boise State was in the old BE after all) but realistically I dont think that will be possible.

[xubrew]

I understand Dayton is a different TV market than Xavier but I dont necessarily think its about adding "new markets" as much as it is about expanding your conference footprint. Adding a completely new state to the conference in Missouri by adding SLU accomplishes a lot more than adding a city 45 minutes away from a current member. People in Dayton, especially Dayton fans, are already very much aware of the Big East and I would venture to say a lot of them probably watch Xavier and BE games if for no other reason than to root against the conference that snubbed them. I know I am very much in tune with whats going on in the AAC or A10 because of Dayton or UC, but have no idea whats going on with the WCC or WAC even though they are comparable leagues. With that in mind, adding St. Louis or another new geography to the BE attracts not only SLU fans but probably also draws eyes from other schools in the state and has a much bigger overall impact than simply adding a new city thats a stones throw from a current member.

To be clear, I do not think we should or will add SLU but if we expand I think they would be the first to get the invite. A tiny part of me is still holding out hope that we could find a way to add Gonzaga (Boise State was in the old BE after all) but realistically I dont think that will be possible.

Your last paragraph makes the most sense. Expanding your footprint doesn't make you any better. In fact, the best you can hope for is to not get any worse. The A10 added Missouri and North Carolina, and was never as good as a fourteen team league as it was as a twelve or ten team league. The Big East is big enough as it is. If anything, we could do with one less team.

[paulxu]

I like the BE the size that it is.
But the Atlantic 10 set a record for the conference with 6 bids when they had 13 members, waiting for Davidson to join.
That didn't seem to hurt them as much as you note. I don't think they ever had 6 bids with 10 or 12 members. I'd be surprised if they had 5.

[MuskieXU]

Your last paragraph makes the most sense. Expanding your footprint doesn't make you any better. In fact, the best you can hope for is to not get any worse. The A10 added Missouri and North Carolina, and was never as good as a fourteen team league as it was as a twelve or ten team league. The Big East is big enough as it is. If anything, we could do with one less team.

Totally agreed. Short of Gonzaga, which again I dont see happening, there arent any teams we can add that will make the conference better and therefore I would be strongly against adding teams. If, however, the Big East gets greedy and wants to add teams to try and increase paydays then my first paragraph was why I think Dayton would not receive an invite.

[xu82]

I love the current home and home format, and can't see any team(s) we need enough to mess with that.

[Masterofreality]

Trust me. Cryers are not letting that "VD to the BE" narrative die. My nephew (who we have NO control over) and his wife are huge VD honks and grads. Their non-stop commentary all though the Holidays is that the league just cannot keep vdump out, then they list delusional reasons, that are only significant to them, why the inclusion is only a matter of time. Uh, no.

The bloated self-importance that the Cryers show is comical, and hilariously so.

And although I picked beating the Borecats, because it always is the sweetest every year, I cannot deny the richness of the win in Orlando, plus the genius clever trolling by one Chris Mack with his very fashionable Big East pullover outer shirt.
Just outstanding.

BTW. One last thing. Have you noticed that not just Xavier, but NO Big East team will play VD? This despite past long term games between schools like Marquette, DePaul and others? There is a reason for that. VD is on no BE radar screen, anywhere.

Back to this, here is a quote from Greg Christopher in the Enemaquirer last winter:

"You just returned from Big East meetings. Is there any talk of conference expansion?

GC: No. You never want to say never but in the short term – however you want to define the short term, whether it's 3 years, 5 years, I don't know what it is – I don't see the conference expanding. It's not on the presidents' radar. It's certainly not on the athletic directors' radar. We don't make the decision. But everybody's happy with the 10, everybody likes the round robin.

FOX seems to be in a good place, not that they have a vote per se but they have a voice. One thing we heard from them after this last season on the scheduling front was, "Is there way to systematically put in more big games in the early season?" And that's where the Gavitt Tipoff Games with the Big Ten came out. That was part of the reason for the Big Ten relationship because FOX is the rights-holder with the Big Ten "

[xubrew]

I like the BE the size that it is.
But the Atlantic 10 set a record for the conference with 6 bids when they had 13 members, waiting for Davidson to join.
That didn't seem to hurt them as much as you note. I don't think they ever had 6 bids with 10 or 12 members. I'd be surprised if they had 5.

They had five a couple of times. And yes, they set a record with thirteen members. That was their SMALLEST lineup in almost a decade.

[muskiefan82]

It may end up that USC ends up being the best victory. I would not have thought that at all.

[MADXSTER]

Villanova will be our best win by seasons end. Sharpie!

[LA Muskie]

Villanova will be our best win by seasons end. Sharpie!
Yes. It almost certainly will be. But this topic is about non-conference opponents, which 'Nova most assuredly is not.

[MADXSTER]

Yes. It almost certainly will be. But this topic is about non-conference opponents, which 'Nova most assuredly is not.

Oops. Well then Xavier must beat them like a red headed non-conference step child.

[muskiefan82]

The Advocare Championship is working out better than any tournament could have possible anticipated. There is no way that the people who put this together could see that ALL 8 teams would currently be at #53 RPI or better.

#2 X
#9 Iowa
#15 VD
#16 USC
#26 Monmouth
#41 Wichita St.
#42 Alabama
#53 Notre Dame

This is turning out to have been one hell of a field for RPI purposes.

[DoubleD86]

The Advocare Championship is working out better than any tournament could have possible anticipated. There is no way that the people who put this together could see that ALL 8 teams would currently be at #53 RPI or better.

#2 X
#9 Iowa
#15 VD
#16 USC
#26 Monmouth
#41 Wichita St.
#42 Alabama
#53 Notre Dame

This is turning out to have been one hell of a field for RPI purposes.

Also, interesting that USC got 0 votes in this poll yet, as of now (and if I am not mistaken) is the highest rated win via KenPom and the AP.

[UCGRAD4X]

Yes. It almost certainly will be. But this topic is about non-conference opponents, which 'Nova most assuredly is not.

Oops. Well then Xavier must beat them like a red headed non-conference step child.

Beat them so bad they'll wish they weren't!

[scoscox]

I can't wait to get Nova in Cintas. Edmond is such a big deal coming back especially against Nova in regards to taking care of the ball and running the offense and bothering shorter guards defensively. Will definitely be a fun game. The amount of great home games per season is so much higher now that we're in the Big East it's incredible and I love it.

[Masterofreality]

The Advocare Championship is working out better than any tournament could have possible anticipated. There is no way that the people who put this together could see that ALL 8 teams would currently be at #53 RPI or better.

#2 X
#9 Iowa
#15 VD
#16 USC
#26 Monmouth
#41 Wichita St.
#42 Alabama
#53 Notre Dame

This is turning out to have been one hell of a field for RPI purposes.

That was a helluva Tournament. When you look at the teams now compared to "pre-season" prognosticators' toutings, you see how much BS there is in analysts early musings. Ha, Notre Dame is last on that list (For those who are convinced of my Notre Dame "Hate Obsession" :lol: )