Todd Frazier to the White Sox

[nuts4xu]

In a 3 team deal with the Dodgers, the Reds are sending Todd Frazier to the White Sox. Specific details to follow...

Bleacher Report ‏@BR_MLB 3m3 minutes ago
Reds trade All-Star 3B Todd Frazier to White Sox, per @JonHeymanCBS

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 3m3 minutes ago
The #Dodgers get Frankie Montas, Michah Johnson, Trayce Thompson; #Reds get Jose Peraza, Scott Schebler, Brandon Dixon. @JonHeymanCBS

[Cheesehead]

No real reason to attend any games this season.This team will be bad, bad, bad.

[XUMIOH12]

Reds are starting their firesale. Going to be a rough couple years for them. Peraza is a pretty good prospect though.

[coasterville95]

And you know ticket and concession prices won't go down to compensate for the bad product on the field.

Or maybe by July they will need nickel beer night.

[X-band '01]

Reds are starting their firesale. Going to be a rough couple years for them. Peraza is a pretty good prospect though.

Had Aroldis Chapman behaved himself this offseason, he'd likely be gone by now as well.

[LadyMuskie]

Nice to see the Castellinis are buying into the Mike Brown program of how to destroy a sports franchise and make an entire city hate you in fell swoop. Very thoughtful of them to support a fellow sports franchisee like that.

[X-band '01]

LadyMuskie, if you've seen how teams like the Royals, Cubs, Astros, Blue Jays and Pirates have been able to rebound after years of bad baseball, the Reds are better off just starting over from scratch. It sucks to see Frazier go, but his trade value right now is as high as it's going to be for the foreseeable future. I posted in another thread that Johnny Cueto signed a free agent deal with the Giants for 6 years and $130 million; there's no way the Reds would be able to pay that kind of money right now.

EDIT: Actually they could, but you could also expect ticket prices to jump sharply in the process. The Reds have always been on the affordable side compared to other MLB teams.

[Juice]

Nice to see the Castellinis are buying into the Mike Brown program of how to destroy a sports franchise and make an entire city hate you in fell swoop. Very thoughtful of them to support a fellow sports franchisee like that.

The problem with the Reds is that their window closed way too quickly. The fire sale and rebuild has to happen because this even before losing Leake, Cueto, Frazier, Chapman (probably soon), BP (probably soon), etc. was a mediocre team at best that was quickly aging. The Pirates are young and the Cubs are a young team with tons of money to spend. Castellini has screwed some things up but at least he is willing to spend money. The Reds had the highest payroll in the division in 2014 and a few million behind in 2015.

[LadyMuskie]

LadyMuskie, if you've seen how teams like the Royals, Cubs, Astros, Blue Jays and Pirates have been able to rebound after years of bad baseball, the Reds are better off just starting over from scratch. It sucks to see Frazier go, but his trade value right now is as high as it's going to be for the foreseeable future. I posted in another thread that Johnny Cueto signed a free agent deal with the Giants for 6 years and $130 million; there's no way the Reds would be able to pay that kind of money right now.

EDIT: Actually they could, but you could also expect ticket prices to jump sharply in the process. The Reds have always been on the affordable side compared to other MLB teams.

Time will tell, and maybe it will work. I'm doubtful, but whatevs. Baseball has a hard enough time getting people to sit through the slog of a game when it's 95 degrees out and 100% humidity. Take away all the good, personable, fun players from the team and what's the point? We actually turned down free Diamond Seats in September because meh. They suck. It's a waste of time. We've been several times before. This coming year will be even worse. Going to a game will be akin to receiving a punishment.

I get that we need a younger team to compete, but I really haven't seen ANYTHING that the Castellinis have done (outside of the mustaches for the All Star Game and those festivities) that leads me to believe they have a clue on how to build a winning team. If you want to get rid of someone sucking up cash flow (even on a small scale) and not producing, I'd have started with Jockety and Price. Then I'd get in my time machine and undo the stupidity that is Votto's contract.

[XMuskieFTW]

Time will tell, and maybe it will work. I'm doubtful, but whatevs. Baseball has a hard enough time getting people to sit through the slog of a game when it's 95 degrees out and 100% humidity. Take away all the good, personable, fun players from the team and what's the point? We actually turned down free Diamond Seats in September because meh. They suck. It's a waste of time. We've been several times before. This coming year will be even worse. Going to a game will be akin to receiving a punishment.

I get that we need a younger team to compete, but I really haven't seen ANYTHING that the Castellinis have done (outside of the mustaches for the All Star Game and those festivities) that leads me to believe they have a clue on how to build a winning team. If you want to get rid of someone sucking up cash flow (even on a small scale) and not producing, I'd have started with Jockety and Price. Then I'd get in my time machine and undo the stupidity that is Votto's contract.

As a non-Reds fan, what is the issue with Votto's contract? He's making 22.5 million a year for a great average, power, and an absolutely ridiculous obp. Especially with the way market prices are rising, I could see that type of production making 35-40 mil a year in 5 years or so. To have him locked in for as long as you do for only 22.5 mil a year seems like a good deal to me unless there's a significant drop off in production.

[Xville]

I'm a Cardinals Fan so no real dog in the fight here, but I will say that offering Votto that long of a contract was a little crazy....i think offering that long of a contract to anyone in pro sports is just dumb...it very rarely ever works out.

Its interesting though to see Jocketty sticking around for a rebuild....he was a winner in St. Louis but he completely gutted the farm system and is why he eventually got canned. I'm shocked he wants to stay for it to be honest.

Unfortunately, because of all the guaranteed money, more teams than not, are going to have to go the fire sale route every ten years or so. There is just way way too much money given to some of these players it's insane. It would be nice to see some kind of salary cap in baseball happen, but I don't forsee it ever occurring.

[Xville]

As a non-Reds fan, what is the issue with Votto's contract? He's making 22.5 million a year for a great average, power, and an absolutely ridiculous obp. Especially with the way market prices are rising, I could see that type of production making 35-40 mil a year in 5 years or so. To have him locked in for as long as you do for only 22.5 mil a year seems like a good deal to me unless there's a significant drop off in production.

Its not necessarily the amount that i think is the problem, it is the length of the contract...paying a guy twenty something million when he is 40 is asinine...he isn't barry bonds shooting roids up in his behind. He is going to breakdown. Also, the reds are mid-market. They have to be a bit more careful with their dollars than an east or west coast team that have money flooding in.

[muskiefan82]

We actually turned down free Diamond Seats in September because meh. They suck. It's a waste of time. .

Diamond seats are about the food, not the product on the field

[bleedXblue]

Its not necessarily the amount that i think is the problem, it is the length of the contract...paying a guy twenty something million when he is 40 is asinine...he isn't barry bonds shooting roids up in his behind. He is going to breakdown. Also, the reds are mid-market. They have to be a bit more careful with their dollars than an east or west coast team that have money flooding in.

Add to that that as a small market club, we've got like 20% of the overall payroll slotted to him. A lot different of you have an extra 20,30, or 40 million a year to play with.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Diamond seats are about the food, not the product on the field

Seriously, I have been in them on a couple occasions and my little brother and I one time made it our mission to order at least 1 thing every time the guy came to ask us if we wanted anything. It was pretty gluttonous, that on top of the booze and the buffet beforehand.

Next time you dont want them Lady Muskie, shoot me a PM, I'll take them.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Speaking of huge contracts I heard on sports talk radio the other day someone referencing Bryce Harper's next contract being like 12-15 years for close to half a billion dollars.

Half a billion! HA.

[XMuskieFTW]

I don't know a ton about the inner workings of contracts, but as a Tigers fan we are paying Cabrera about 350 million over a 10 year span until he is 42(with an option for age 43 year lol). Anyways, I'm heard that that contract will probably gross the Tigers about 1 billion dollars over its entirety just by having him. With the way player contracts, TV deals, etc are skyrocketing I believe it.

[GoMuskies]

Diamond seats are about the food, not the product on the field

The free beer, too.

[Xville]

I don't know a ton about the inner workings of contracts, but as a Tigers fan we are paying Cabrera about 350 million over a 10 year span until he is 42(with an option for age 43 year lol). Anyways, I'm heard that that contract will probably gross the Tigers about 1 billion dollars over its entirety just by having him. With the way player contracts, TV deals, etc are skyrocketing I believe it.

I don't know how that number could ever be figured out but that benefits two people...Cabrera and the owner. Pro sports salaries are all together stupid, but baseball takes it to a whole other level.

[vee4xu]

Nice to see the Castellinis are buying into the Mike Brown program of how to destroy a sports franchise and make an entire city hate you in fell swoop. Very thoughtful of them to support a fellow sports franchisee like that.

Yeah, I get it. I feel the same way about Truck Stop Jimmy and the Clowns.

[LadyMuskie]

Diamond seats are about the food, not the product on the field

True. But we'd already been twice this year and it was one of those days when it felt like we were living on the equator because of the humidity.

[bjf123]

Unfortunately, because of all the guaranteed money, more teams than not, are going to have to go the fire sale route every ten years or so. There is just way way too much money given to some of these players it's insane. It would be nice to see some kind of salary cap in baseball happen, but I don't forsee it ever occurring.

That's what I really don't like about baseball. The guaranteed salaries have gotten way out of hand. If a team isn't winning, and they have some players who will command huge raises when their current contracts are up, the only thing they can do is have the proverbial fire sale, start rebuilding, and hope for the best. Of course, if you're the Yankees or Dodgers, none of this applies. You just pay the players.


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[D-West & PO-Z]

True. But we'd already been twice this year and it was one of those days when it felt like we were living on the equator because of the humidity.

High Roller, that's awesome. That set up is fantastic. I got to sit front row right in the middle one game, it was awesome.

[XU 87]

On paper, I'm not a huge fan of this trade. The Reds traded an All-Star third baseman, who has two years left before free agency, and got three prospects. Of those prospects, the top one is a second baseman who has absolutely no power and has a good but not great OBP. He steals bases, but the Sabremetrics guys will tell us that base stealing is overrated.

The other two guys we got- one is 25 years old and is the 13th ranked player in the Dodgers minor league system. I think the other guy is ranked around 20 in the Dodgers system. They seem to be a bench player and marginal MLB player respectively.

If the Reds would have gotten these guys for Chapman, fine. But I would expect more for Frazier.

Jocketty is good at making trades, so we'll see.

[xeus]

Great, now they've traded bat boy Teddy Kremer to Atlanta for two prospects. This is getting out of control.

http://www.xavierhoops.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1869&stc=1

[LadyMuskie]

High Roller, that's awesome. That set up is fantastic. I got to sit front row right in the middle one game, it was awesome.

Ha ha. No. We're not high rollers. Hubby just knows the right people.

That said, you're right - it is an extremely cool experience, and one I hope everyone gets to try at some point.

[Xavier]

Seriously, I have been in them on a couple occasions and my little brother and I one time made it our mission to order at least 1 thing every time the guy came to ask us if we wanted anything. It was pretty gluttonous, that on top of the booze and the buffet beforehand.

Next time you dont want them Lady Muskie, shoot me a PM, I'll take them.

Pretty lame move (unless you spent a lot on tips).

[GoMuskies]

Pretty lame move


The hell with that. If you're in the Diamond Seats only once, you've got to take full advantage!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Pretty lame move (unless you spent a lot on tips).

I'm guessing you've never been in the seats. They automatically come to every row and take everyone's order in the row and go to each subsequent row behind to the end, then go get all the food and deliver it and start the whole process over again no matter what. Someone from every row is ordering somehting all the time, so at most the only extra work we created was a corn dog, pretzel, or ice cream on his tray.

That being said I'm sure my dad (my brother I was referencing was 13 at the time, we were with our parents) tipped the guy nicely.


(yes, I was an adult....yes I let my dad tip for me as well, no shame)

[Xtemporaneous]

Great, now they've traded bat boy Teddy Kremer to Atlanta for two prospects. This is getting out of control.

http://www.xavierhoops.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1869&stc=1

Reps XEUS! That's funny. You know I actually feel bad for Teddy. Todd was his #1 for sure.

[coasterville95]

Where did you hear Atlanta, I read in a reputable sports column it was Oakland for the bat boy.

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