I always expected X to get here but ...

[Murph85]

Now that the program is where it is I am giddy. We have had great teams, yes we have, but never so solid in every position, never with the confidence our coach is staying a long time and never with a more solid recruiting class. For me , even the question of C Mack's coaching ability has been erased.

I was a bit skeptical of my own expectations of this year's team being too lofty and probably not realistic. Glad I was wrong. This year is going to be really fun but even with that said, man are we going to be a team to be reckoned with for a long long time. The stable is full and the underclass players are going to be legendary. It took a few years to rise up in the A 10. The Big East will belong to X in the same way.

There were times over the years I thought the ascent was in jeopardy of ending due to coaching changes and AD changes. All programs seem to have a hiccup or two. Glad I was wrong on that as well. The journey over the past 30 or so years has been fun but being where we alway strived to be is awesome. If any trolls out there are upset with my confidence in the program, feel free to point out the weaknesses of the program or this year's team. I would love to hear some Gayton nonsense responses but probably not going to happen i'm guessing.

[MADXSTER]

Xavier has had a great program for the last 30 years but was missing a couple of items.....1) Being part of a top 5 league 2) A long term coach 3) A Final Four/ National Championship.

I believe 1 and 2 are now taken care of and 3 is on the horizon.

[xudash]

Now that the program is where it is I am giddy. We have had great teams, yes we have, but never so solid in every position, never with the confidence our coach is staying a long time and never with a more solid recruiting class. For me , even the question of C Mack's coaching ability has been erased.

I was a bit skeptical of my own expectations of this year's team being too lofty and probably not realistic. Glad I was wrong. This year is going to be really fun but even with that said, man are we going to be a team to be reckoned with for a long long time. The stable is full and the underclass players are going to be legendary. It took a few years to rise up in the A 10. The Big East will belong to X in the same way.

There were times over the years I thought the ascent was in jeopardy of ending due to coaching changes and AD changes. All programs seem to have a hiccup or two. Glad I was wrong on that as well. The journey over the past 30 or so years has been fun but being where we alway strived to be is awesome. If any trolls out there are upset with my confidence in the program, feel free to point out the weaknesses of the program or this year's team. I would love to hear some Gayton nonsense responses but probably not going to happen i'm guessing.

I agree with all your thoughts Murph save for one: the idea of dominating the Big East like we did the MCC and the A10. I believe we'll be a real player and one of the top performers in the conference consistently, but I don't see us dominating it. The C7, with Villanova, Georgetown and Marquette in there, in particular, will represent program strength that is nothing like what we experienced in the other two conferences.

Otherwise, and as MADXSTER so succinctly pointed out, we have most definitely fixed the conference affiliation issue and I believe Chris is home for a long time.

Now it's up to match-ups, fate and timing in the NCAA Tournament.

[Murph85]

Yes I will agree we are not going to own the BE, just be the Villenova as it stands.

We have been a great program for 30 years to be sure but my contention is we have reached a point where ther is no longer playing time for Andrew Taylor or projects like the 6 '9 guy from three years back, Jeff Robinson. The time of two star maybes and filling open scholarships with walk ons is done. We have 3 four stars for 2016 and with the recognition we are getting I am confident we are going to see top 30 types on a regular basis.

It still amazes me that X has not had a miss on coaches in all this time. Kentucky and Indiana have had terrible picks even when they are dream job destinations. We also do not sit in a situation like Gayton knowing our coach is waiting for the big call much like Sean Miller or Thad.

For the first time in years I don't really care if UC pulls out a victory, it just doesn't matter, we are the program. Do not understand this as not wanting to keep the midget winless as Cintas, I do, but we have a very solid team brimming with final four potential.

[xudash]

Yes I will agree we are not going to own the BE, just be the Villenova as it stands.

We have been a great program for 30 years to be sure but my contention is we have reached a point where ther is no longer playing time for Andrew Taylor or projects like the 6 '9 guy from three years back, Jeff Robinson. The time of two star maybes and filling open scholarships with walk ons is done. We have 3 four stars for 2016 and with the recognition we are getting I am confident we are going to see top 30 types on a regular basis.

It still amazes me that X has not had a miss on coaches in all this time. Kentucky and Indiana have had terrible picks even when they are dream job destinations. We also do not sit in a situation like Gayton knowing our coach is waiting for the big call much like Sean Miller or Thad.

For the first time in years I don't really care if UC pulls out a victory, it just doesn't matter, we are the program. Do not understand this as not wanting to keep the midget winless as Cintas, I do, but we have a very solid team brimming with final four potential.

Totally agree.

[xdude]

My buddies and I at the game Sat against Western Ky all agreed. We cannot, at this point, claim this to be the best Xavier squad ever. But we easily agreed that this is the deepest basketball team Xavier University has ever had. How long since we started Stenger? No offense, just fun...

[Milhouse]

See the thing is you don't need to dominate league play to be a great team come tournament time. I mean you do in a10 or midmajor leagues. But look at uconn in 2011. 9th in league. .500 league record. National champs.

Big east is deep. Heck I think we are one year off being close to an 8 bid team (st. John's and DePaul not gonna cut it next year).

[XU-PA]

I vowed to get the David West tattoo on my upper right arm when the Musketeers made it to the final 4,,,,, should I start interviewing artists now?

[kyxu]

Xavier is looking very good right now and I didn't expect them to look this good as we're barely into December, but let's all calm our tatas on this "best team" or "deepest team" in Xavier history. These basketball seasons are marathons, and we're going to hit lulls in the season where we're all lamenting the disappearance of "that Xavier team from late November."

We are going to lose more than a few games this season, some to teams we have no business losing, so let's just enjoy this one as it unfolds.

[XMuskieFTW]

Xavier is looking very good right now and I didn't expect them to look this good as we're barely into December, but let's all calm our tatas on this "best team" or "deepest team" in Xavier history. These basketball seasons are marathons, and we're going to hit lulls in the season where we're all lamenting the disappearance of "that Xavier team from late November."

We are going to lose more than a few games this season, some to teams we have no business losing, so let's just enjoy this one as it unfolds.

Are we though? Why do we always have to lose games we shouldn't lose? I can see this team taking care of business and not losing outside of the crosstown, @ wake, and to a top half of the big east team.

[Muskie1995]

I vowed to get the David West tattoo on my upper right arm when the Musketeers made it to the final 4,,,,, should I start interviewing artists now?

Not trying to offend you but that seems something like a UK fan would do. I would use the money you could spend on a tattoo and go to the Final four game.

[TUclutch]

Xavier has had a great program for the last 30 years but was missing a couple of items.....1) Being part of a top 5 league 2) A long term coach 3) A Final Four/ National Championship.

I believe 1 and 2 are now taken care of and 3 is on the horizon.

This. Xavier was getting good recruits, but simply the name Big East puts us in contention for the top 30 way more consistently. I don't see Mack leaving for many other jobs at all. Combine those, and number 3 should arrive shortly

[kyxu]

Are we though? Why do we always have to lose games we shouldn't lose? I can see this team taking care of business and not losing outside of the crosstown, @ wake, and to a top half of the big east team.

Oh trust me, it will happen. And everyone on this board calling this the best Xavier team in history is going to go f*@king nuts when it does.

[Dante'sInferno]

I think that a good touch point for this team is the 2011-12 team. That's the last time that I went into a season feeling like it wasn't crazy to hope for a Final Four appearance. And that team was nasty on paper:

1 Senior year for Tu, Freshman year for Dee
2 Junior years for Lyons and Redford (in a potential breakout year!)
3 Dez and Justin Martin (who had promise, even if it never came through)
4 Isaiah Philmore and Travis Taylor
5 Senior year for Frease and transfer year for Andre Walker
11th and 12th men - Jeff Robinson and Eric Stenger

That team was arguably as deep, if not deeper, than this year's team. And I'm definitely not trying to jinx anything by bringing that squad up the week before another shootout. But the point is - you never know what's going to happen.

Sumner could hit a huge freshman wall. And with the sophomore slump that Larry Austin is working through, that would leave the point guard spot very shaky. I would say that Trevon and Farr have exceeded expectations so far. They might slow down. Hopefully not. But it could happen. Makinde, Kaiser and O'Mara might not progress the way that we hope. At the very least, there are going to be off nights.

The 2011 team also started 8-0, and was ranked #8 after beating Cincy. I'm loving every second of this season. But I'm trying to not get ahead of myself.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think that a good touch point for this team is the 2011-12 team. That's the last time that I went into a season feeling like it wasn't crazy to hope for a Final Four appearance. And that team was nasty on paper:

1 Senior year for Tu, Freshman year for Dee
2 Junior years for Lyons and Redford (in a potential breakout year!)
3 Dez and Justin Martin (who had promise, even if it never came through)
4 Isaiah Philmore and Travis Taylor
5 Senior year for Frease and transfer year for Andre Walker
11th and 12th men - Jeff Robinson and Eric Stenger

That team was arguably as deep, if not deeper, than this year's team. And I'm definitely not trying to jinx anything by bringing that squad up the week before another shootout. But the point is - you never know what's going to happen.

Sumner could hit a huge freshman wall. And with the sophomore slump that Larry Austin is working through, that would leave the point guard spot very shaky. I would say that Trevon and Farr have exceeded expectations so far. They might slow down. Hopefully not. But it could happen. Makinde, Kaiser and O'Mara might not progress the way that we hope. At the very least, there are going to be off nights.

The 2011 team also started 8-0, and was ranked #8 after beating Cincy. I'm loving every second of this season. But I'm trying to not get ahead of myself.

The depth of that team wasnt as strong I dont think. I think to some extent you are looking at that team from today's view and attributing things they did later to their skills then. Dee, Martin, and Reford didnt contribute much. Taylor wasnt the player he would become. Stenger actually wasnt even on that team.

[GoMuskies]

See the thing is you don't need to dominate league play to be a great team come tournament time. I mean you do in a10 or midmajor leagues. But look at uconn in 2011. 9th in league. .500 league record. National champs.


Yeah, and our favorite team ever (to date) came in 4th in its division in the A-10. But I get the point.

[xu82]

I think that a good touch point for this team is the 2011-12 team. That's the last time that I went into a season feeling like it wasn't crazy to hope for a Final Four appearance. And that team was nasty on paper:

1 Senior year for Tu, Freshman year for Dee
2 Junior years for Lyons and Redford (in a potential breakout year!)
3 Dez and Justin Martin (who had promise, even if it never came through)
4 Isaiah Philmore and Travis Taylor
5 Senior year for Frease and transfer year for Andre Walker
11th and 12th men - Jeff Robinson and Eric Stenger

That team was arguably as deep, if not deeper, than this year's team. And I'm definitely not trying to jinx anything by bringing that squad up the week before another shootout. But the point is - you never know what's going to happen.

Sumner could hit a huge freshman wall. And with the sophomore slump that Larry Austin is working through, that would leave the point guard spot very shaky. I would say that Trevon and Farr have exceeded expectations so far. They might slow down. Hopefully not. But it could happen. Makinde, Kaiser and O'Mara might not progress the way that we hope. At the very least, there are going to be off nights.

The 2011 team also started 8-0, and was ranked #8 after beating Cincy. I'm loving every second of this season. But I'm trying to not get ahead of myself.

Tu was the real deal, but those other guys don't compare to the current roster. Then again, March is Point Guard Season.

[Dante'sInferno]

The depth of that team wasnt as strong I dont think. I think to some extent you are looking at that team from today's view and attributing things they did later to their skills then. Dee, Martin, and Reford didnt contribute much. Taylor wasnt the player he would become. Stenger actually wasnt even on that team.

For sure. Some of those guys definitely became bigger contributors as time went on. But my point is that I don't want to hype this team the way that I remember hyping that team back in the day. Some of the guys on this team are inevitably going to regress.

But I will say that 2011 was the last (or only) season for Holloway, Lyons, Wells, and Frease, who were the core of that team. And I think that if that team, pre-brawl, played this year's team as they are now - I would put my money on Tu.

[drudy23]

I think that a good touch point for this team is the 2011-12 team. That's the last time that I went into a season feeling like it wasn't crazy to hope for a Final Four appearance. And that team was nasty on paper:

1 Senior year for Tu, Freshman year for Dee
2 Junior years for Lyons and Redford (in a potential breakout year!)
3 Dez and Justin Martin (who had promise, even if it never came through)
4 Isaiah Philmore and Travis Taylor
5 Senior year for Frease and transfer year for Andre Walker
11th and 12th men - Jeff Robinson and Eric Stenger

That team was arguably as deep, if not deeper, than this year's team. And I'm definitely not trying to jinx anything by bringing that squad up the week before another shootout. But the point is - you never know what's going to happen.

Sumner could hit a huge freshman wall. And with the sophomore slump that Larry Austin is working through, that would leave the point guard spot very shaky. I would say that Trevon and Farr have exceeded expectations so far. They might slow down. Hopefully not. But it could happen. Makinde, Kaiser and O'Mara might not progress the way that we hope. At the very least, there are going to be off nights.

The 2011 team also started 8-0, and was ranked #8 after beating Cincy. I'm loving every second of this season. But I'm trying to not get ahead of myself.

?????

Justin Martin, Philmore, Taylor, Robinson, Andre Walker and Stenger? Would you replace any guys on the current roster with these guys? I wouldn't.

[MADXSTER]

ink that t And with the sophomore slump that Larry Austin is working through

He had 1 bad game. 1 That does not qualify as a slump much less a sophomore season slump in my book.

[MauriceX]

?????

Justin Martin, Philmore, Taylor, Robinson, Andre Walker and Stenger? Would you replace any guys on the current roster with these guys? I wouldn't.

In my mind, the closest comparison to this year's team is the 2007-08 squad just because of the extreme balance of the team. Lavender, Brown, Duncan, Anderson, Raymond, and Burrell all averaged 9.7 or more points per game. Jason Love and Dante Jackson were lesser contributors on that team as well.

This year, we have Bluiett, Sumner, Davis, Farr, Macura, and Reynolds averaging 10.4+ with Abell, and O'Mara almost equal to Jackson/Love. Plus we have Austin Jr., Gates, and London.

That 07-08 team won 30 games and went to the elite eight. So... you know... Good year. Like others have said, it is still early and there is a lot of season left, but the current squad has the potential to be better than this.

[drudy23]

Jason Love and Dante Jackson were lesser contributors on that team as well.



From a stat perspective ONLY...those two were major contributors in more ways than one. Jason Love may have been the most important person on that team.

[Dante'sInferno]

He had 1 bad game. 1 That does not qualify as a slump much less a sophomore season slump in my book.

You're right. Slump is too strong of a word. And I don't think that this team needs Austin to provide a lot of offense. It seems like he's already a leader, and he does a good job of getting the team fired up.

[Dante'sInferno]

?????

Justin Martin, Philmore, Taylor, Robinson, Andre Walker and Stenger? Would you replace any guys on the current roster with these guys? I wouldn't.

Hey, Andre Walker was pretty smooth. Justin Martin was a highly touted freshman (think Kaiser Gates). And Philmore, Taylor and Robinson line up pretty well to where Makinde and O'Mara are right now. Stenger played the same role on that team that Tim Stainbrook plays on this team. The difference is that the guys on this team seem to have much higher upsides. We'll find out.

That 2011 was a rock solid 8-0. They had wins at #20 Vanderbilt and vs Purdue and Butler, to go along with the stomping of UC. I think the horribleness of the brawl clouds the memory of how excited Xavier fans were about that team.

[MauriceX]

From a stat perspective ONLY...those two were major contributors in more ways than one. Jason Love may have been the most important person on that team.

Are we talking about the same year? Don't get me wrong, I'm not downplaying Love's stats. 6 points and 5.5 rebounds per game as a sophomore is pretty good. But I thought his emergence as being the "most important person on the team" didn't come until later in his career. Especially when we had people like Lavender and Brown in the starting lineup and Duncan as our first man off the bench.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Hey, Andre Walker was pretty smooth. Justin Martin was a highly touted freshman (think Kaiser Gates). And Philmore, Taylor and Robinson line up pretty well to where Makinde and O'Mara are right now. Stenger played the same role on that team that Tim Stainbrook plays on this team. The difference is that the guys on this team seem to have much higher upsides. We'll find out.

That 2011 was a rock solid 8-0. They had wins at #20 Vanderbilt and vs Purdue and Butler, to go along with the stomping of UC. I think the horribleness of the brawl clouds the memory of how excited Xavier fans were about that team.

Stenger wasnt on that team.

[drudy23]

Are we talking about the same year? Don't get me wrong, I'm not downplaying Love's stats. 6 points and 5.5 rebounds per game as a sophomore is pretty good. But I thought his emergence as being the "most important person on the team" didn't come until later in his career. Especially when we had people like Lavender and Brown in the starting lineup and Duncan as our first man off the bench.

I don't know...they all run together at this point.

[Dante'sInferno]

Stenger wasnt on that team.

My goal is to turn this thread into an argument about whether or not Eric Stenger rode the bench as a sophomore in 2011-12. (Joke)

[AviatorX]

Philmore was also sitting out that season.

[Xavier]

Yeah, I'm not sure they are even in the conversation. I'd take the Crawford and Tu team before them. Overal that team isn't better than this years but its hard to bet against Crawford lead team In a one game situation.

[Murph85]

I loved that team for certain. BJ Raymond sinking the 3 to beat West Virginian and more importantly Huggins is clearly one of the time capsule moments.

That being said I can't see that team beating this one. CJ Anderson could go inside on the A 10. Can't see this against Big East. Love was not what he was as a Senior so really nobody to stop a guy like Reynolds/Farr. they would have been dominated on the glass head up.

Sumner while still in the developmental stage is 6'6 with a burst superior to anyone on that team. It is not my way to criticize any Muskie team or the accomplishments but if, and there is an if, this team moves in the direction I think it is moving, it could compete with that UCLA team which exposed that team for it's shortcomings.

Of interest is that team had one of the higher rated recruits, Adrian Grave. Complete bust.

[Milhouse]

I'd take senior year travis taylor again in a heart beat. Had he played his JR year like he did his SR who knows what that team would have been....

I think we'll have someone very similar to him in Tyrique Jones.

[Murph85]

I hear T Jones is an absolute beast of a rebounder but not so great offensively. I read somewhere that he may be the best rebounder in the entire class.

Gotta wonder if Taylor would be able to score the way he did in a better league. He really did have to do a lot with the defense focusing on him but 18 or so games were against the likes of Fordam, St. Bonventure, Richmond .... no real big men to stop him. St. Johns would have out half his shots in the cheering section last year.

[GoMuskies]

if, and there is an if, this team moves in the direction I think it is moving, it could compete with that UCLA team which exposed that team for it's shortcomings.

Hell, Western Kentucky competed with that UCLA team. Xavier just laid a complete egg in the Elite Eight.

[XUFan09]

Are we talking about the same year? Don't get me wrong, I'm not downplaying Love's stats. 6 points and 5.5 rebounds per game as a sophomore is pretty good. But I thought his emergence as being the "most important person on the team" didn't come until later in his career. Especially when we had people like Lavender and Brown in the starting lineup and Duncan as our first man off the bench.

He was possibly the best post defender on the team, certainly better than Josh Duncan. That's an important player to have in your arsenal.

[XUFan09]

?????

Justin Martin, Philmore, Taylor, Robinson, Andre Walker and Stenger? Would you replace any guys on the current roster with these guys? I wouldn't.

If we're talking for just one year, Andre Walker, without hestitation, yes. Put him in as the third big on the team, with the versatility to play the 3 or 4, and this is a better team. He's a good ballhandler and distributor (perfect for all the other scoring options), a solid rebounder, and a good defender for positions 3 through 5 and maybe even against a 2 at times. There's a reason he was a starter on a team that started the season 8-0, was ranked top 10, and finished the season with a Sweet 16.

[xudash]

I've always argued that its very important to be ranked among the elite of college basketball; to be recognized as being one of the best, rather than being in a position of usually having to prove that at year-end via success in the NCAA Tournament. Frankly, success as measured by every possible program metric is important, because it simply adds to the brand over time. Think Duke. Think Kentucky.

Having our name clip along the bottom banner of the TV channel many nights because we're ranked is a good thing. Awareness. Image.

And then there is this quote from Chris Mack in today's Enquirer, reflecting on the "ranking buzz":

“It’s something you can’t really control, you can’t stop,” Mack said. “Anything today is exposed times 20 with social media and just everybody trying to get a sound bite. As coaches, you really try to guard against it and you try to warn your team that you’re only who you are on game night. I mean, it’s great for the program. It’s great for recruiting. But for this team, it doesn’t help any.”

As for not helping with this team, I can accept the point about it being a distraction of sorts. The way to fix that through human nature is to get ranked, stay ranked and become used to being ranked from all that.

Again, it's ALL important: pre-season rankings, in-season rankings, piling up wins in the OOC, playing well in conference play, making it to the Tournament and then going deep within it.

I believe we are at the BEGINNING of a new era in Xavier basketball. It came about with Xavier's inclusion in the Big East and with Chris Mack settling in on Victory Parkway for the long-term. We should think in terms of the success we're enjoying now as the level of success we should enjoy for a while. We should believe our recruiting will continue to be strong - be very strong. This success feeds on itself.

Imagine if Jalen Reynolds actually fulfills his promise this year. Murph is right.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I loved that team for certain. BJ Raymond sinking the 3 to beat West Virginian and more importantly Huggins is clearly one of the time capsule moments.

I was at that game and in the West Virginia section. Besides Brown's jumper at 5/3rd, it was best XU game I have seen in person.

I think what separates this team from most of our others is the quality of talent from the #1 to #13 on the scholarship list. If one guy has a tough couple of weeks Mack has a bench he can go to with talent, where in years past his bench has had much lesser talented players.

[gladdenguy]

Hell, Western Kentucky competed with that UCLA team. Xavier just laid a complete egg in the Elite Eight.

I agree. UCLA, with all that NBA talent, clicked on all cylinders and had their best game of the tournament. Combine that with the fact that we didn't shoot the ball well and we got blown out. I was really surprised UCLA didn't win it all. But if you look at their 5 games of the tournament they were absolutely clicking against us. Not using that as an excuse.....they just beat us bad. I don't think they were 19 points better than that Xavier team....but that night they were.

[GoMuskies]

Xavier sucked out loud that day. It was a very disappointing finish for what was (hopefully prior to this year) our best team ever.

[MuskieXU]

I believe we are at the BEGINNING of a new era in Xavier basketball. It came about with Xavier's inclusion in the Big East and with Chris Mack settling in on Victory Parkway for the long-term. We should think in terms of the success we're enjoying now as the level of success we should enjoy for a while. We should believe our recruiting will continue to be strong - be very strong. This success feeds on itself.

This is what I came here to say. I think this team is very good but I expect teams like this to be the new normal. We are no longer in a position where we need the stars to align to make a run in March, we now have the players to do so pretty much year in and year out. The next step is to start competing for conference championships and top 4 seeds, and if we can do this consistently we will eventually get a Final 4.

[xufan2434]

Hell, Western Kentucky competed with that UCLA team. Xavier just laid a complete egg in the Elite Eight.

Pretty easy for them to overlook a Western Kentucky team and really come to play against X in the elite 8.. That team was absolutely loaded. Westbrook, Love, Collison, Josh Shipp, Mbah a Moute. To be honest, it felt like everyone but Derrick Brown was intimidated from the get go. If that UCLA team played to it's capabilities (they did), there was no way X was winning no matter how they showed up.

Will say, I don't see this team being intimidated by anyone. It's not who these guys are. Mack not only recruited scorers but just straight up winners. Sumner, Macura, Bluiett all led their teams to state titles at some point and JP hit the game winner as time expired. Could be the difference between this team and ones in the past.

[xudash]

Pretty easy for them to overlook a Western Kentucky team and really come to play against X in the elite 8.. That team was absolutely loaded. Westbrook, Love, Collison, Josh Shipp, Mbah a Moute. To be honest, it felt like everyone but Derrick Brown was intimidated from the get go. If that UCLA team played to it's capabilities (they did), there was no way X was winning no matter how they showed up.

Will say, I don't see this team being intimidated by anyone. It's not who these guys are. Mack not only recruited scorers but just straight up winners. Sumner, Macura, Bluiett all led their teams to state titles at some point and JP hit the game winner as time expired. Could be the difference between this team and ones in the past.

Will be the difference.

[D-West & PO-Z]

“It’s something you can’t really control, you can’t stop,” Mack said. “Anything today is exposed times 20 with social media and just everybody trying to get a sound bite. As coaches, you really try to guard against it and you try to warn your team that you’re only who you are on game night. I mean, it’s great for the program. It’s great for recruiting. But for this team, it doesn’t help any.”




Wait, Mack said being ranked helps recruiting? Didn't anyone tell Mack that Emp said it didnt? What is going on, I am so confused!?

[XUFan09]

Wait, Mack said being ranked helps recruiting? Didn't anyone tell Mack that Emp said it didnt? What is going on, I am so confused!?
Ha!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[waggy]

As for not helping with this team, I can accept the point about it being a distraction of sorts. The way to fix that through human nature is to get ranked, stay ranked and become used to being ranked from all that.


If the program goes where everyone hopes it does, then handling success, and playing as a constant frontrunner goes with the territory.

[XUFan09]

If the program goes where everyone hopes it does, then handling success, and playing as a constant frontrunner goes with the territory.
Agreed. The initial experience takes getting used to, but after awhile, the team will develop the Jason-Love attitude of expecting to be there.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[MauriceX]

Sumner, Macura, Bluiett all led their teams to state titles at some point and JP hit the game winner as time expired. Could be the difference between this team and ones in the past.

While I agree that this year's team would be competitive with the 2007-08 squad, I don't think it's a surefire win. The 07-08 team won 30 games for a reason. I think it's tough to remember that far back, but they were a beast. Plus we had a ton of senior leadership on that team. And Burrell's defense was insane.

I also agree that the above point is a big difference between the 07-08 team and this year. The 07-08 team was criticized for not having a go-to guy. Which leads to other posters saying a Crawford-led team is better, though they lacked balance. I think this years team has both elements. We have tons of balance, but we also have multiple guys who I think can be the "go-to" guy in close games.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Not to derail the thread but, speaking of "go to guy" if we need one bucket at the end of the game to tie or win, who do we go to?

I think we could go several ways but I think my nuber 1 option would be to run some sort of play that results with the ball in Trevon's hands for a jump shot to win. I want him taking the last shot but not necessarily with the ball in his hands the entire time with time ticking off.

I think my next go to option would be Myles with the ball in his hands and a drive to the bucket and a shot or with potential for a kick out. Could be similar play for Sumner but I have more trust in Myles to make the right play at this point.

[MADXSTER]

Not to derail the thread but, speaking of "go to guy" if we need one bucket at the end of the game to tie or win, who do we go to?

I think we could go several ways but I think my nuber 1 option would be to run some sort of play that results with the ball in Trevon's hands for a jump shot to win. I want him taking the last shot but not necessarily with the ball in his hands the entire time with time ticking off.

I think my next go to option would be Myles with the ball in his hands and a drive to the bucket and a shot or with potential for a kick out. Could be similar play for Sumner but I have more trust in Myles to make the right play at this point.

With Farr somewhere in the neighborhood in case it comes off the rim.

[D-West & PO-Z]

With Farr somewhere in the neighborhood in case it comes off the rim.

Yeah a purposeful miss with Farr down low might be the best play!"

[MauriceX]

Not to derail the thread but, speaking of "go to guy" if we need one bucket at the end of the game to tie or win, who do we go to?

I think we could go several ways but I think my nuber 1 option would be to run some sort of play that results with the ball in Trevon's hands for a jump shot to win. I want him taking the last shot but not necessarily with the ball in his hands the entire time with time ticking off.

I think my next go to option would be Myles with the ball in his hands and a drive to the bucket and a shot or with potential for a kick out. Could be similar play for Sumner but I have more trust in Myles to make the right play at this point.

I think my order would be pretty similar. Trevon, Myles, and I'd actually put JP above Sumner. I think JP has ice in his veins, and Sumner has sometimes had "freshman moments" where he gets too out of control and tries to do too much on his own. (Not a diss against Sumner, he just needs more experience.)

[UCGRAD4X]

While I agree that this year's team would be competitive with the 2007-08 squad, I don't think it's a surefire win. The 07-08 team won 30 games for a reason. I think it's tough to remember that far back, but they were a beast. Plus we had a ton of senior leadership on that team. And Burrell's defense was insane.

I also agree that the above point is a big difference between the 07-08 team and this year. The 07-08 team was criticized for not having a go-to guy. Which leads to other posters saying a Crawford-led team is better, though they lacked balance. I think this years team has both elements. We have tons of balance, but we also have multiple guys who I think can be the "go-to" guy in close games.

And age old argument to which I have always contended, not having that 'one guy' makes the team better overall. Balance is a good way to describe the advantage.

The thing about needing someone to step into that go-to moment in the big game, is counting on the coach to call up a play for who he thinks is best able to make the play. If it's an obvious choice, it is also obvious to the other team.

I wonder how the new time-out rule will come into play since it will be more challenging for the coach to set up that end game scenario in real time.

[xufan2434]

Not to derail the thread but, speaking of "go to guy" if we need one bucket at the end of the game to tie or win, who do we go to?

I think we could go several ways but I think my nuber 1 option would be to run some sort of play that results with the ball in Trevon's hands for a jump shot to win. I want him taking the last shot but not necessarily with the ball in his hands the entire time with time ticking off.

I think my next go to option would be Myles with the ball in his hands and a drive to the bucket and a shot or with potential for a kick out. Could be similar play for Sumner but I have more trust in Myles to make the right play at this point.

Tough call this early in the season.. My initial thought is Myles. His dribble drive has really gotten better and I'd trust him to pass out of it if there's nothing there. But the way Trevon is playing, it'd be hard to not give him the ball. I wouldn't expect him to necessarily blow by anyone, but his pull up mid range is about as good as it gets. Too early for Sumner IMO

[XUFan09]

Trevon, then Myles/Sumner. I get that Sumner is a freshman, but a big key to end-of-game scenarios is free throw rate. Sumner has the best rate on the team by a good margin.

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[waggy]

In the spirit of this thread, end games don't matter when you win every game by 20.

[XUFan09]

In the spirit of this thread, end games don't matter when you win every game by 20.
Haha

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[Emp]

In the spirit of this thread, end games don't matter when you win every game by 20.

Would we are never in a crunch time position, but reality bites. The only tests we haven't faced yet are (a) coming from behind and (b) needing a bucket or a stop to win. Not wishing to see any of that soon, but when it comes, I feel good about this team having several options on offense. Not as confident about getting a stop.

[MuskieXU]

Not to derail the thread but, speaking of "go to guy" if we need one bucket at the end of the game to tie or win, who do we go to?

I think we could go several ways but I think my nuber 1 option would be to run some sort of play that results with the ball in Trevon's hands for a jump shot to win. I want him taking the last shot but not necessarily with the ball in his hands the entire time with time ticking off.

I think my next go to option would be Myles with the ball in his hands and a drive to the bucket and a shot or with potential for a kick out. Could be similar play for Sumner but I have more trust in Myles to make the right play at this point.

In the words of CM "whoevers open." Probably a bit cliche but with this team I actual believe thats our best option.

[D-West & PO-Z]

In the words of CM "whoevers open." Probably a bit cliche but with this team I actual believe thats our best option.

Well yeah but Mack has to draw up a play. Tie game, 10 seconds left coming out of a timeout, who's hands does he have the ball in? What does he have them do? Drive and kick? Drive and pull up? Run a screen for Trevon? That is more what I am looking for.

[MADXSTER]

Well yeah but Mack has to draw up a play. Tie game, 10 seconds left coming out of a timeout, who's hands does he have the ball in? What does he have them do? Drive and kick? Drive and pull up? Run a screen for Trevon? That is more what I am looking for.

That probably depends on the other team's worst defender, what plays have they worked for X during the game and who has the hot hand for X.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That probably depends on the other team's worst defender, what plays have they worked for X during the game and who has the hot hand for X.

True. My question is more in vacuum, who do you guys think Mack looks for or who's hands does he want the ball in?

I guess it is a pretty good problem though that we all have so much confidence in so many different guys that there is no clear answer.

[TUclutch]

End of game scenario needing a bucked, you give the ball to Myles handle initially to drive. You have Bluiett, Sumner and Macura spread along the arc. Farr or Reynolds down low. I think you design the play to be dish to one of the wings as the first option. They then have the ability to shoot a jumpshot or drive which thye all are capable of doing. Back up option would be the Layup by Myles/dump to the big man.

[MuskieXU]

True. My question is more in vacuum, who do you guys think Mack looks for or who's hands does he want the ball in?

I guess it is a pretty good problem though that we all have so much confidence in so many different guys that there is no clear answer.

My guess based solely on a gut feeling is he gets the ball in Trevons hands to draw attention to him and then has Trevon dish to an open man or take the shot himself. I dont have an issue with Trevon shooting or passing but one way or another I think the play has to be centered around him.

[Masterofreality]

Well yeah but Mack has to draw up a play. Tie game, 10 seconds left coming out of a timeout, who's hands does he have the ball in? What does he have them do? Drive and kick? Drive and pull up? Run a screen for Trevon? That is more what I am looking for.

All your best shooters are on the floor- Myles, Tre, Macura- this includes Jalen because he can hit a 15 footer- and Ed.

Ed has to start the play, but with Myles, JP and Tre, you can spread that floor wide open. Gives you all kinds of options with a stick back possibility. In this group, I'd be fine with Remy not being in and for anyone to take the shot. Ed can get to the hoop whenever he wants and JP, Myles and Tre can bury a shot from anywhere.

This is a very nice "problem" to have.

[DoubleD86]

Give me the rock.

[XUFan09]

All your best shooters are on the floor- Myles, Tre, Macura- this includes Jalen because he can hit a 15 footer- and Ed.

Ed has to start the play, but with Myles, JP and Tre, you can spread that floor wide open. Gives you all kinds of options with a stick back possibility. In this group, I'd be fine with Remy not being in and for anyone to take the shot. Ed can get to the hoop whenever he wants and JP, Myles and Tre can bury a shot from anywhere.

This is a very nice "problem" to have.
Even last year, Mack was already subbing Macura in for Abell for offensive end-of-game scenarios. Now, if it's a defensive stop you need at the end of the game, Abell is a no-brainer inclusion in the lineup.

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[LA Muskie]

I think it's a dribble drive by Myles or Sumner (depending on opposing defense) with a possible kickout to Trevon or Myles.


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[D-West & PO-Z]

Yeah I'm thinking what a lot of you are. If you asked me today I would probably prefer the dribble drive by Myles over Sumner due to trusting Myles a little more and him being a better finisher at the rim but that might be a different answer towards the end of the season with Sumner's continued development.

[XUFan09]

Yeah I'm thinking what a lot of you are. If you asked me today I would probably prefer the dribble drive by Myles over Sumner due to trusting Myles a little more and him being a better finisher at the rim but that might be a different answer towards the end of the season with Sumner's continued development.
I think Sumner makes up for a weaker ability to finish compared to Myles right now with his FT rate in the top 15 of the nation. Myles' FT rate is good, but Sumner's is about twice that. So I put the two about even, cause Myles is a little savvier right now too.

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[XUMIOH12]

I think it starts in Sumners hands because of his ability to get to the basket. But i think the ball will end up with either Myles or Trevon in a situation like that.

[LA Muskie]

I think it starts in Sumners hands because of his ability to get to the basket. But i think the ball will end up with either Myles or Trevon in a situation like that.

The advantage to having it in Sumner's hands is that he has 2 guys who can spot up for a kick-out, which is almost impossible to defend against. The disadvantage is that he would be more prone to making the wrong decision, and that he still has some difficulty finishing in traffic--two areas in which Myles now excels.

Either way, I think we are very well situated for end-game situations. Especially considering that no one has mentioned that Farr and Reynolds would also likely be on the floor at the same time, and could not be ignored either on the initial shot or any potential rebound.