Missouri Football Players Refusing to Play

[xubrew]

I don't know all of the specifics. I know that African American students are not happy with the university president due to the racial climate on campus. I don't know if they're accusing him of perpetuating the racism, or of just standing idly by and doing nothing to deal with the racism.

Refusing to play a football game is no small thing. For better or worse, athletics are very conspicuous, and if they simply do not play against BYU, it's going to be impossible for anyone to ignore. The coaches and the AD seem to be with the players, which is interesting since they both ultimately work for the president.

And....we do play Mizzou this year. I don't know what the attitude of the basketball team is, but if the football team is refusing to play, it wouldn't surprise me if other teams decided to do the same....

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25366653/missouris-black-football-players-refusing-to-play-until-president-ousted

[GoMuskies]

Having seen Mizzou "play" a few times this year, I think it's cool how they actually started this strike in August but didn't publicly announce it until this weekend.

[Juice]

I don't know all of the specifics. I know that African American students are not happy with the university president due to the racial climate on campus. I don't know if they're accusing him of perpetuating the racism, or of just standing idly by and doing nothing to deal with the racism.

Refusing to play a football game is no small thing. For better or worse, athletics are very conspicuous, and if they simply do not play against BYU, it's going to be impossible for anyone to ignore. The coaches and the AD seem to be with the players, which is interesting since they both ultimately work for the president.

And....we do play Mizzou this year. I don't know what the attitude of the basketball team is, but if the football team is refusing to play, it wouldn't surprise me if other teams decided to do the same....

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25366653/missouris-black-football-players-refusing-to-play-until-president-ousted

I think they believe that he is perpetuating the problem by sitting by idly. This isn't going to end well. The list of demands from the student organization that is leading this has some really crazy parts to it.

[Juice]

Having seen Mizzou "play" a few times this year, I think it's cool how they actually started this strike in August bud didn't actually announce it until this weekend.

Well a student did start a hunger strike 3-4 days ago.

[GoMuskies]

Well a student did start a hunger strike 3-4 days ago.

Probably to prevent the world from having to watch any more Missouri football this year.

[Juice]

Probably to prevent the world from having to watch any more Missouri football this year.

Back to back reigning champs of the SEC East, which is a dumpster fire of a division

[muskienick]

It is still possible to be crappy football players and have reasonable expectations from the heads of your university at the same time. The one is not mutually exclusive from the other!

[Strange Brew]

It is still possible to be crappy football players and have reasonable expectations from the heads of your university at the same time. The one is not mutually exclusive from the other!

It's fine if they refuse to play however if they're on athletic scholarship the university should promptly send them a bill for their fall semester classes and accommodations.

By the way a poop swastika is kind of ironic as national socialism as well as racial hatred and genocide are rather, well, poopy.

[bobbiemcgee]

I must be missing something here. A poopy swastika would be anti- semitic. What are the racial charges?

[xubrew]

It's fine if they refuse to play however if they're on athletic scholarship the university should promptly send them a bill for their fall semester classes and accommodations.

By the way a poop swastika is kind of ironic as national socialism as well as racial hatred and genocide are rather, well, poopy.

The athletic director and coaches appear to be backing the players, so I seriously doubt they'll be sending them a bill.

[Strange Brew]

I must be missing something here. A poopy swastika would be anti- semitic. What are the racial charges?

Actually, I'm not sure who should be offended by a poopy swastika. I'm mean, I'm all for Nazis covered in fecal matter but on the other hand I feel those who practice Hinduism and Buddhism have a real beef here.

WE ARE UNITED IN CONFUSION would be a better slogan for the team.

[boozehound]

I must be missing something here. A poopy swastika would be anti- semitic. What are the racial charges?

You need to seriously question your admissions standards if people are writing poop swastikas in your dorms. That's poor behavior by prison standards!

[XU-PA]

I must be missing something here. A poopy swastika would be anti- semitic. What are the racial charges?

the Nazi folks were not a one group offender. if you weren't blond blue eyed aryan,,,
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005479

And of course your current Nazi people are probably more idiotic about brown/black skin than they are about folks of the jewish faith,

[XUFan09]

the Nazi folks were not a one group offender. if you weren't blond blue eyed aryan,,,
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005479

And of course your current Nazi people are probably more idiotic about brown/black skin than they are about folks of the jewish faith,
See Edward Norton, American History X.

[GoMuskies]

Kind of funny that they play lily white BYU this weekend. I was thinking about heading up to the game with some of my co-workers. I wanted the TV cameras to catch me in a BYU sweatshirt drinking a beer.

[xubrew]

Apparently Mizzou's president has resigned.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Apparently Mizzou's president has resigned.

Yep players win, good for them.

http://nypost.com/2015/11/09/university-of-missouri-president-resigns-after-racism-protests/

[Xville]

Yep players win, good for them.

http://nypost.com/2015/11/09/university-of-missouri-president-resigns-after-racism-protests/


Completely disagree..i think this is a freaking joke. Ok well now the racism that exists on campus is taken care of because the president was forced to resign. This is typical America in this day in age...just take the easy way out and fire someone instead of dealing with the actual issue that is at hand. I think its ridiculous that a president had to resign because of a few stupid racist college students' actions.

[xubrew]

Completely disagree..i think this is a freaking joke. Ok well now the racism that exists on campus is taken care of because the president was forced to resign. This is typical America in this day in age...just take the easy way out and fire someone instead of dealing with the actual issue that is at hand. I think its ridiculous that a president had to resign because of a few stupid racist college students' actions.

I really don't know what's going on. Do you??

The coach and AD ultimately work for the president, and it is VERY odd regardless of what the situation is that they would openly defy the president and side with the players. When I say it's odd, I mean that I cannot think of another example where that happened.

I don't know what the exact series of events were that led to this, but the reaction was pretty extreme, and it wasn't just the students. Was it really just "a few stupid racist college students??" If it was, then I agree with you. But I also can't help but think that it was a lot more than that to not only trigger this kind of reaction from the students, but that kind of support from high level university employees.

[STL_XUfan]

The race issue was just the tip of the iceberg. The calls to have have Wolfe removed had been growing louder over the past few months due to several moves that upset the faculty and student body. This includes terminating the graduate assistants health care 1 day before the start of semester without prior notice and throwing Mizzou into the middle of the planned parenthood debate by terminating the nursing and medical schools ties with the local planned parenthood on little to no notice. I think without the amalgamation of these issues, you wouldn't have seen this blow up as it did.

It is events like this that makes me hate twitter and facebook. Apparently there are now only 2 options on every issue and everyone must pick a side. The amount of crazy being spewed on those sites and newspaper comments sections by both sides is just disheartening (and occasionally comical).

[XU 87]

Yep players win, good for them.

http://nypost.com/2015/11/09/university-of-missouri-president-resigns-after-racism-protests/

What did the President do that was racist or encouraged racism? This is a VERY slippery slope.

[BMoreX]

Also they're having a white out for the BYU game.

[xubrew]

It is events like this that makes me hate twitter and facebook. Apparently there are now only 2 options on every issue and everyone must pick a side. The amount of crazy being spewed on those sites and newspaper comments sections by both sides is just disheartening (and occasionally comical).

Comical?? Yes. Funny?? No.

[GoMuskies]

Also they're having a white out for the BYU game.

That would be awesome.

But you've always got a white-out when you play BYU.

[OH.X.MI]

What did the President do that was racist or encouraged racism? This is a VERY slippery slope.

I don't think anyone can honestly say he did either. A few dumb kids did pretty some dumb things. That's unfortunate, but it happens. Not sure what the hell the president could have done? But, you know, "white privilege."

[GoMuskies]

"white privilege."

You know what kind of privilege I wish I had? Division I athlete (particularly a revenue sport) privilege on a college campus.

[Xville]

[QUOTE=STL_XUfan;517352]The race issue was just the tip of the iceberg. The calls to have have Wolfe removed had been growing louder over the past few months due to several moves that upset the faculty and student body. This includes terminating the graduate assistants health care 1 day before the start of semester without prior notice and throwing Mizzou into the middle of the planned parenthood debate by terminating the nursing and medical schools ties with the local planned parenthood on little to no notice. I think without the amalgamation of these issues, you wouldn't have seen this blow up as it did.


There were other things as you noted here, but if you think the football players really gave a crap about the planned parenthood decisions or healthcare, then I don't know what to tell you. The reason this started getting pub is because some of the football players threatened to not play if he was dismissed...so Missouri was forced into a corner that they could not get out of or at least deemed they could not get out of. I think The university proved to be a bunch of cowards in this instance, but if they would have called the players' bluff, that could have effected recruiting for years and years. Yeah it would have sucked to have a horrible football and basketball team (though right now we have both), but really it would have been cool for the university to come to a more logical conclusion than fire the president because the football team said so.

I kind of wish that Missouri said "fine don't play....you no longer have a scholarship so your tuition for the fall semester is due"

[STL_XUfan]

There were other things as you noted here, but if you think the football players really gave a crap about the planned parenthood decisions or healthcare, then I don't know what to tell you. The reason this started getting pub is because some of the football players threatened to not play if he was dismissed...so Missouri was forced into a corner that they could not get out of or at least deemed they could not get out of. I think The university proved to be a bunch of cowards in this instance, but if they would have called the players' bluff, that could have effected recruiting for years and years. Yeah it would have sucked to have a horrible football and basketball team (though right now we have both), but really it would have been cool for the university to come to a more logical conclusion than fire the president because the football team said so.

I kind of wish that Missouri said "fine don't play....you no longer have a scholarship so your tuition for the fall semester is due"

Isn't that how the game of "chicken" works? Someone blinks or we get mutually assured destruction. The University blinked, whether that is right or wrong, I have no idea. I am so far removed from campus (and when I was there I was a there I was a grad student had no real connection to the regular campus) that I can't really form an informed opinion on the matter.

[muskiefan82]

So, will the "Irate 8" be asking the UC Men's football team to stop playing unless Santa Ono resigns? Is this what we can begin to expect from college teams? I think Missouri should have asked when the Missouri football players were going to START playing, rather than fire the President because they threatened to not play.

[xubrew]

[QUOTE=STL_XUfan;517352][B]The race issue was just the tip of the iceberg. The calls to have have Wolfe removed had been growing louder over the past few months due to several moves that upset the faculty and student body. This includes terminating the graduate assistants health care 1 day before the start of semester without prior notice and throwing Mizzou into the middle of the planned parenthood debate by terminating the nursing and medical schools ties with the local planned parenthood on little to no notice. I think without the amalgamation of these issues, you wouldn't have seen this blow up as it did.


There were other things as you noted here, but if you think the football players really gave a crap about the planned parenthood decisions or healthcare, then I don't know what to tell you. The reason this started getting pub is because some of the football players threatened to not play if he was dismissed...so Missouri was forced into a corner that they could not get out of or at least deemed they could not get out of. I think The university proved to be a bunch of cowards in this instance, but if they would have called the players' bluff, that could have effected recruiting for years and years. Yeah it would have sucked to have a horrible football and basketball team (though right now we have both), but really it would have been cool for the university to come to a more logical conclusion than fire the president because the football team said so.

I kind of wish that Missouri said "fine don't play....you no longer have a scholarship so your tuition for the fall semester is due"

Easily said, but nearly impossibly done.

For starters, this is a potential PR nightmare, especially if there are legitimate issues of racism.

It would have also created a situation to where most of them could have left without penalty, and been granted a missed semester. They would have lost their entire team.

Last but not least, bye-bye FBS. You have to average 76 scholarships over a two year period, and if Mizzou just suddenly decided pull all of them, they would be reclassified down to the FCS level. It would take about four years to get the average back up to where it needed to be. The SEC would have loved that. The contractual damages would have been enormous. And...for what exactly??

Again, what sequence of events led to this?? It's a little presumptuous to just say the kids are overreacting if you don't even know what they're reacting to. Maybe they are overreacting. But....maybe not. At the very least, you have to admit that this isn't normal.

[D-West & PO-Z]

What did the President do that was racist or encouraged racism? This is a VERY slippery slope.

I meant more of a good for them that they took a serious stand on an issue they feel was a serious problem on their campus (one the coaches back them up on) and they won.

No one should be mad at the football players, they didnt fire the President. They took a stand on something they felt was a real issue. It was the job of the board of directors (or whoever it is) to determine if there was a serious issue and that the president was in some way responsible for not properly dealing with that issue. If Mizzou fired the president only because they wanted their crappy football team to be able to play then shame on them, but that isnt the fault of the protesting players. They are entitled to their opinion and to act in a way they think will bring about needed change. The university had the right to ignore them or take away their scholarships but they actually thought the players had some real beef.

I would seriously hope schools wouldnt fire someone if there wasnt really an issue at hand or something in their job the person wasnt doing right to fix a problem etc. That is why I dont think this is a slippery slope at all. If all the black basketball players on XU all of a sudden came out and said that Mack was a racist and they werent playing until he was gone and XU looked into it and found nothing they wouldnt just fire Mack to keep their basketball players happy. So i see no slippery slope here.

[xu82]

I kind of wish that Missouri said "fine don't play....you no longer have a scholarship so your tuition for the fall semester is due"

I'd have rather seen this outcome. I have zero idea what problems (if any) exist there, but to have a bunch of 19 year old kids dictate to a university is not the precedent I want to see set. If there are problems, they need to be fixed by the right people in a rational way.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'd have rather seen this outcome. I have zero idea what problems (if any) exist there, but to have a bunch of 19 year old kids dictate to a university is not the precedent I want to see set. If there are problems, they need to be fixed by the right people in a rational way.

Sometimes it takes radical action to get the right people to fix an issue or set of issues. I dont blame these kids one bit and apparently a lot of people (AD and coach included) were on their side, including eventually the board. Again good for them.

[X-band '01]

I kind of wish that Missouri said "fine don't play....you no longer have a scholarship so your tuition for the fall semester is due"

I wouldn't count on other teams just sitting idly by if Mizzou took a stance like that. This isn't quite the same situation that St. Bonaventure had a decade ago when one of their players became ineligible and the team mailed it in for the final 2 games once they learned that they were banned from the A-10 Tournament that year.

[XU 87]

I meant more of a good for them that they took a serious stand on an issue they feel was a serious problem on their campus (one the coaches back them up on) and they won.



So in your mind, going forward, it's ok for college athletes to refuse to play if they "feel" there is a "serious" problem on a campus?

If Ohio State players decide that there aren't enough minority academic scholarships, is it ok for them to boycott football games until more money becomes available?

If XU players want a new dept of African Studies, is it ok for them to boycott games until they get one?

Suppose a college basketball team decides there aren't enough minority professors in the Economics' dept. and decide they will boycott all games until two minorities are hired?

These are what is known as slippery slopes - "You give us what we want or we're not playing". Thirty football players just caused the "resignation" of a school president.

[xu82]

Sometimes it takes radical action to get the right people to fix an issue or set of issues. I dont blame these kids one bit and apparently a lot of people (AD and coach included) were on their side, including eventually the board. Again good for them.

I freely admit to not knowing the facts here. The AD and coach were on their side? Were they also sitting this game out? Or just saying they will tolerate the action without penalty? That makes it sound like there was a problem that was openly recognized, and action was inevitable. Regardless, if you give an ultimatum like that, you have to be willing to face the consequences. This was an immature way to handle whatever problems exist. It's fine to bring attention to an issue, but I'm not the type to give in to ultimatums (because I can be a stubborn ass). "Fine boys, you sit and have mom and dad write that big check or take a walk. The adults will look into this and take appropriate action." I know you're saying they believed it was an issue that was being properly recognized, but threats don't suit me well.

[XU 87]

Sometimes it takes radical action to get the right people to fix an issue or set of issues. I dont blame these kids one bit and apparently a lot of people (AD and coach included) were on their side, including eventually the board. Again good for them.

What were the "issues" that needed to be fixed?

What did the former president not do to fix theses 'issues"? How did he contribute to these "issues"?

[D-West & PO-Z]

So in your mind, going forward, it's ok for college athletes to refuse to play if they "feel" there is a "serious" problem on a campus?

If Ohio State players decide that there aren't enough minority academic scholarships, is it ok for them to boycott football games until more money becomes available?

If XU players want a new dept of African Studies, is it ok for them to boycott games until they get one?

Suppose a college basketball team decides there aren't enough minority professors in the Economics' dept. and decide they will boycott all games until two minorities are hired?

These are what is known as slippery slopes - "You give us what we want or we're not playing". Thirty football players just caused the "resignation" of a school president.
Pretty weak examples compared to the accusation of unaddressed campus wide acts of racism but:

It is perfectly ok for them to do that if they want. The schools will be responsible for figuring out what the best course of action is in those situations. Schools shouldnt fire someone just because athletes want them to and I dont believe that is what happened in this case.

You dont have to agree with them but they have a right to protest whatever they want. The school has a right to tell them to take a hike and revoke their scholarships as others have pointed out.

[muskiefan82]

Does Missouri have four year scholarships or could they potentially rebuild next year will ALL freshmen? there are sometimes real consequences - even when you might be right. The football team took a stand. They got what they wanted. This does not mean that how they did it doesn't have its own set of consequences (i.e. non-renewed scholarships and some ridiculous scholarship opportunities for athletes who would likely never have made a division 1 roster next year.)

[D-West & PO-Z]

I freely admit to not knowing the facts here. The AD and coach were on their side? Were they also sitting this game out? Or just saying they will tolerate the action without penalty? That makes it sound like there was a problem that was openly recognized, and action was inevitable. Regardless, if you give an ultimatum like that, you have to be willing to face the consequences. This was an immature way to handle whatever problems exist. It's fine to bring attention to an issue, but I'm not the type to give in to ultimatums (because I can be a stubborn ass). "Fine boys, you sit and have mom and dad write that big check or take a walk. The adults will look into this and take appropriate action." I know you're saying they believed it was an issue that was being properly recognized, but threats don't suit me well.

I think it was the opposite of immature. They knew the consequences and were prepared to face them, what makes you think they werent. I thnk for young kids to take a stand on something they believe in regardless of backlash or punishment is not immature.

Obviously there were pretty serious problems, the university acted pretty quickly and it wasnt because 30 football players werent going to play.

[D-West & PO-Z]

What were the "issues" that needed to be fixed?





"What did the former president not do to fix theses 'issues"? How did he contribute to these "issues"?
This is what I read were some of the issues that were happening and being ignored:

"Racial tension has been brewing at Missouri's campus in Columbia since September, when Payton Head, the Missouri Students Association president and an African-American, said he was racially abused while walking. Students protested when it took nearly a week for the university chancellor to address the incident.

Then in October, a student yelled the N-word at members of the Legion of Black Collegians in a campus plaza while they were rehearsing for a play. And later that month, someone smeared feces in the shape of a swastika on a bathroom wall in a new residence hall.

The university downplayed the incident, and more backlash toward administrators ensued, with Wolfe enduring the most."

[xu82]

You dont have to agree with them but they have a right to protest whatever they want. The school has a right to tell them to take a hike and revoke their scholarships as others have pointed out.

Sabotaging the athletic department, the loss of revenue and the recruiting damage is harmful to the very institution they claim to be trying to protect. It's fine to raise awareness, but not at that cost. There is a mature way to deal with any real problems.

We'lll never know if this was mob mentality or if they were genuinely prepared to face the loss of scholarships, because the president caved. Maybe he should be gone, but it didn't have to be like this.

[XU 87]

This is what I read were some of the issues that were happening and being ignored:

"Racial tension has been brewing at Missouri's campus in Columbia since September, when Payton Head, the Missouri Students Association president and an African-American, said he was racially abused while walking. Students protested when it took nearly a week for the university chancellor to address the incident.

Then in October, a student yelled the N-word at members of the Legion of Black Collegians in a campus plaza while they were rehearsing for a play. And later that month, someone smeared feces in the shape of a swastika on a bathroom wall in a new residence hall.

The university downplayed the incident, and more backlash toward administrators ensued, with Wolfe enduring the most."

Who smeared the feces? Who yelled the "N" word? What did the president do to cause this or what could he have done to prevent it?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Who smeared the feces? Who yelled the "N" word? What did the president do to cause this or what could he have done to prevent it?

I think the issue at hand was his lack of response to any of these incidents. Not that he did them or could have stopped them but chose to either not respond to them or address them.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Sabotaging the athletic department, the loss of revenue and the recruiting damage is harmful to the very institution they claim to be trying to protect. It's fine to raise awareness, but not at that cost. There is a mature way to deal with any real problems.

Interesting from someone who started their last post.....

"I freely admit to not knowing the facts here."

......to be telling the student athletes this is affecting that they didnt protest in the right way and that they were protesting at a cost too high.

[Xville]

Sometimes it takes radical action to get the right people to fix an issue or set of issues. I dont blame these kids one bit and apparently a lot of people (AD and coach included) were on their side, including eventually the board. Again good for them.

Yeah like the coach or the AD had a choice but to be on their side. If they didn't side with them, they would lose on the recruiting trail.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yeah like the coach or the AD had a choice but to be on their side. If they didn't side with them, they would lose on the recruiting trail.

Also taking the opposite side of their boss.

[xu82]

Interesting from someone who started their last post.....

"I freely admit to not knowing the facts here."

......to be telling the student athletes this is affecting that they didnt protest in the right way and that they were protesting at a cost too high.

I just don't like threats or the inmates running the asylum. If the problem is real, bring awareness and it will be fixed. This is not a good precedent to set in my mind. As was said earlier.... it's a slippery slope.

[XU 87]

Whatever happened to the delete button?

[Xville]

Also taking the opposite side of their boss.

Pinkel makes 3.2 million a year, the president i believe makes about 350k....i really doubt Pinkel gives a crap what the President thinks...let's be honest. There are far worse things that could have happened to Pinkel if he sided with the President, rather than siding with the team.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I cant really understand people being upset with the players. Are you guys against the 1st amendment? If you are mad at the outcome the only people to blame are the leaders of the university that decided the outcome. They were who decided this, they could have taken multiple other routes. 30 football players did not fire the university president. You can disagree with their opinion or stand but they did nothing wrong. If you think it was ridiculous or overblown then again blame the university for "caving in".

I have a feeling these were pretty founded feelings and it forced the university t take a really hard look over the last 48-72 hours and they realized what they found was deserving of terminating the school president.

[ChicagoX]

Deadspin: What's Going On At The University Of Missouri? All Your Questions, Answered (http://deadspin.com/whats-going-on-at-the-university-of-missouri-all-your-1741447807?trending_test_e&utm_expid=66866090-62.H_y_0o51QhmMY_tue7bevQ.5&utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com)

Excerpt:

"Wolfe is gone because he was forced out through the unified efforts of stakeholders across the campus and the state. Faculty began a two-day walkout starting this morning; students have been camped out on Carnahan Quadrangle in support of the hunger strike and in favor of Wolfe’s removal since Nov. 2; black Mizzou alumni, as well as a number of other alumni groups, issued a statement of support for Concerned Student 1950; Senator Claire McCaskill urged the board of curators to act; and state lawmakers, from both parties, have called for Wolfe’s removal. Even Governor Jay Nixon issued a statement, saying the “concerns need to be addressed.”

The football team is just one component of this campaign, which has been gaining steam since mid-October. This is what it looks like when a broad coalition seeks to effect change, and it’s something that the University of Missouri campus has rarely seen."

[D-West & PO-Z]

I just don't like threats or the inmates running the asylum. If the problem is real, bring awareness and it will be fixed. This is not a good precedent to set in my mind. As was said earlier.... it's a slippery slope.

Part of the problem is you are considering them inmates in the asylum, I think that is the wrong way to look at it. Inmates arent equal to the people running the asylum.

There was a lot of protesting done previously with nothing being fixed.

[XU 87]

I think the issue at hand was his lack of response to any of these incidents. Not that he did them or could have stopped them but chose to either not respond to them or address them.

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/racial-climate-at-mu-a-timeline-of-incidents-to-date/article_0c96f986-84c6-11e5-a38f-2bd0aab0bf74.html

He ordered mandatory diversity training and also met with the students. Apparently that wasn't enough to save his job.

Will it be ok if the 30 guys on the football team continues to boycott unless a minority is hired in his place?

How about the women's basketball team- will it be ok if they boycott games unless a woman is hired as President?

If Sam was still on this team, would be ok for him to boycott games unless the school hired a gay President?

[Xville]

I cant really understand people being upset with the players. Are you guys against the 1st amendment? If you are mad at the outcome the only people to blame are the leaders of the university that decided the outcome. They were who decided this, they could have taken multiple other routes. 30 football players did not fire the university president. You can disagree with their opinion or stand but they did nothing wrong. If you think it was ridiculous or overblown then again blame the university for "caving in".

I have a feeling these were pretty founded feelings and it forced the university t take a really hard look over the last 48-72 hours and they realized what they found was deserving of terminating the school president.

The football players threatened that they would not play unless he resigned or was forced out. That is pretty clear cut. So yes in effect, the football players backed the university into making these decisions.

I'm sorry but just because some idiots used racial slurs a couple of instances and someone put up a poopy swastika does not in my mind equate to the ridiculousness of these student run groups and their demands. To me, this whole thing is a complete joke.

[Juice]

I think the issue at hand was his lack of response to any of these incidents. Not that he did them or could have stopped them but chose to either not respond to them or address them.

Didn't they figure out who the student was that yelled the n-word was and kick him out?

[D-West & PO-Z]

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/racial-climate-at-mu-a-timeline-of-incidents-to-date/article_0c96f986-84c6-11e5-a38f-2bd0aab0bf74.html

He ordered mandatory diversity training and also met with the students. Apparently that wasn't enough to save his job.

Will it be ok if the 30 guys on the football team continues to boycott unless a minority is hired in his place?

How about the women's basketball team- will it be ok if they boycott games unless a woman is hired as President?

If Sam was still on this team, would be ok for him to boycott games unless the school hired a gay President?

Again I think it is ok to boycott whatever you want whenever you want. Its not only ok but a right that our constitution gives us. I dont know all the facts of this situation and I dont know if the president deserved to be fired, but I know the players felt strongly about these issues and they exercised their right to do something about it. They could have faced consequences and I am sure they were aware and ready for that.

You guys are acting like they took a gun and held up the board until they did what they want. The board had choices, several of them, they chose what the players wanted and I would venture to guess that was more because of what they found and the culmination of many groups taking a stand rather than just doing what 30 players wanted.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The football players threatened that they would not play unless he resigned or was forced out. That is pretty clear cut. So yes in effect, the football players backed the university into making these decisions.

I'm sorry but just because some idiots used racial slurs a couple of instances and someone put up a poopy swastika does not in my mind equate to the ridiculousness of these student run groups and their demands. To me, this whole thing is a complete joke.

Shame on the university if they made this decision only because of 30 football players. I doubt that they did. If so Mizzou has a lot more issues on their hand than I think anyone realizes.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Didn't they figure out who the student was that yelled the n-word was and kick him out?

No idea.

[Juice]

No idea.

If so, which I'm pretty sure they did do it, wouldn't that count as doing something?

[D-West & PO-Z]

If so, which I'm pretty sure they did do it, wouldn't that count as doing something?

I would think so. Guess its whether it was addressed in an appropriate time frame or did it take a lot of this protesting?

Again I want to make clear I dont know all the facts of the case or whether I agree with the president being dismissed, but I dont think the players did anything wrong. I dont think they were immature. The more I read it sounds like they may have just been a tipping point as they were joining a lot of different groups calling for action.

[STL_XUfan]

The NCAA and Universities have found a way to make billions off the backs of players while providing them very little recourse or protection (yearly renewable scholarships, gray-shirting, transfer restrictions). So now I am supposed to feel bad that a group of athletes finally cracked the code and discovered that they hold an immense amount of power so long as they act collectively? I will be over shedding a tear for colleges across the country.

[xubrew]

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/racial-climate-at-mu-a-timeline-of-incidents-to-date/article_0c96f986-84c6-11e5-a38f-2bd0aab0bf74.html

He ordered mandatory diversity training and also met with the students. Apparently that wasn't enough to save his job.

Will it be ok if the 30 guys on the football team continues to boycott unless a minority is hired in his place?

How about the women's basketball team- will it be ok if they boycott games unless a woman is hired as President?

If Sam was still on this team, would be ok for him to boycott games unless the school hired a gay President?


The football players threatened that they would not play unless he resigned or was forced out. That is pretty clear cut. So yes in effect, the football players backed the university into making these decisions.

I'm sorry but just because some idiots used racial slurs a couple of instances and someone put up a poopy swastika does not in my mind equate to the ridiculousness of these student run groups and their demands. To me, this whole thing is a complete joke.

The FACULTY walked out!! Do you feel they were being ridiculous?? People are up in arms about the football team not playing a football game, but no one has even mentioned that the faculty planned to stop teaching classes. When the faculty walks out, and the alumni, a senator, other elected officials, and the governor of the state are all saying that the president needs to go, then isn't that a pretty clear sign that there is a lot more to this than the football players simply trying to force their will upon the President?? The actions of the football players seem to be right in line with everyone else. You don't want inmates running the asylum, but you don't want bad leaders who can't effectively address the serious issues running the university either. When that many groups take actions that are that extreme, then something must be extremely wrong that the people in charge are not going to fix.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The NCAA and Universities have found a way to make billions off the backs of players while providing them very little recourse or protection (yearly renewable scholarships, gray-shirting, transfer restrictions). So now I am supposed to feel bad that a group of athletes finally cracked the code and discovered that they hold an immense amount of power so long as they act collectively? I will be over shedding a tear for colleges across the country.

Ha, amen.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The FACULTY walked out!! Do you feel they were being ridiculous?? People are up in arms about the football team not playing a football game, but no one has even mentioned that the faculty planned to stop teaching classes. When the faculty walks out, and the alumni, a senator, other elected officials, and the governor of the state are all saying that the president needs to go, then isn't that a pretty clear sign that there is a lot more to this than the football players simply trying to force their will upon the President?? The actions of the football players seem to be right in line with everyone else. You don't want inmates running the asylum, but you don't want bad leaders who can't effectively address the serious issues running the university either. When that many groups take actions that are that extreme, then something must be extremely wrong that the people in charge are not going to fix.

Pretty immature of the faculty, they were protesting at way too great a cost.

Seriously though hopefully Mizzou can get back on track now, sounds pretty messed up over there given how many different groups were so upset. I'm just glad that one kid can eat now. Its been about an hour and half since I ate and I am ready again.

[muskiefan82]

I think some people are missing a small point in all of this.

I have no issue with the football team boycotting or threatening to boycott a game.
I have no issue with the faculty walking out.

Both have that right and both thought it the best way to effect change. It worked.

I also think that the university has the right to do what they feel is necessary to ensure issues like this are handled better in the future. If they believe they handled it poorly or the faculty/athletes had no choice, then they do nothing AND THEY STATE WHY THEY ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING so that this does not become the standard "method for change". If they want to, the university could release all the players and the faculty (based on their contracts or agreements) and start over. This doesn't mean that what the people did was wrong or unsupported, but even when you do what is right, there may still be consequences. If a person pulled three weapons out of his car and was about to enter my building to kill people and I pulled my pistol out of my car and shot him, I might be lauded publicly as a hero, but I would face weapons charges on Federal property. Just because what you do is right or justified, doesn't mean there can't be consequences.

[Xville]

The FACULTY walked out!! Do you feel they were being ridiculous?? People are up in arms about the football team not playing a football game, but no one has even mentioned that the faculty planned to stop teaching classes. When the faculty walks out, and the alumni, a senator, other elected officials, and the governor of the state are all saying that the president needs to go, then isn't that a pretty clear sign that there is a lot more to this than the football players simply trying to force their will upon the President?? The actions of the football players seem to be right in line with everyone else. You don't want inmates running the asylum, but you don't want bad leaders who can't effectively address the serious issues running the university either. When that many groups take actions that are that extreme, then something must be extremely wrong that the people in charge are not going to fix.

Considering what those same elected officials did during the Ferguson fiasco...I would take the opposite view of whatever their opinion is on almost any subject.

Further, I could have cared less if the football team played or not because quite frankly they are freaking terrible and they should just go ahead and forfeit the rest of the season. (kidding) kind of. Anyways, not playing the game would mean about a million dollars lost for the athletic department which isn't chump change, plus it would put a greater spotlight on the school which obviously they don't want. I think the football team had a ton of power here...way more than some faculty to be honest. Think about it....did any of you hear about any of this before the football team said something? I doubt it...because no one cares otherwise...its barely news otherwise.

Lastly, again I'm sorry but a few racial slurs (although they are horrible and should never be used by anyone) and a poopy swastika to me have caused a gross overreaction by these student groups and i think it is a complete joke.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think some people are missing a small point in all of this.

I have no issue with the football team boycotting or threatening to boycott a game.
I have no issue with the faculty walking out.

Both have that right and both thought it the best way to effect change. It worked.

I also think that the university has the right to do what they feel is necessary to ensure issues like this are handled better in the future. If they believe they handled it poorly or the faculty/athletes had no choice, then they do nothing AND THEY STATE WHY THEY ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING so that this does not become the standard "method for change". If they want to, the university could release all the players and the faculty (based on their contracts or agreements) and start over. This doesn't mean that what the people did was wrong or unsupported, but even when you do what is right, there may still be consequences. If a person pulled three weapons out of his car and was about to enter my building to kill people and I pulled my pistol out of my car and shot him, I might be lauded publicly as a hero, but I would face weapons charges on Federal property. Just because what you do is right or justified, doesn't mean there can't be consequences.

I'm confused who you think is saying the university can't do anything to the protesters.

[muskiefan82]

I meant that if the university decides not to do anything to the football team or faculty for what they tried to do, then they need to state specifically that they are not going to take any action against those groups because there were issues and those groups did what they felt they had to do to have their issues addressed. I think that if the university does nothing and says nothing about it, then they are asking for this to happen for every potential conflict with any group on campus.

[XU 87]

The FACULTY walked out!! Do you feel they were being ridiculous??

Yes.

[xu82]

The FACULTY walked out!! Do you feel they were being ridiculous?? People are up in arms about the football team not playing a football game, but no one has even mentioned that the faculty planned to stop teaching classes. When the faculty walks out, and the alumni, a senator, other elected officials, and the governor of the state are all saying that the president needs to go, then isn't that a pretty clear sign that there is a lot more to this than the football players simply trying to force their will upon the President?? The actions of the football players seem to be right in line with everyone else. You don't want inmates running the asylum, but you don't want bad leaders who can't effectively address the serious issues running the university either. When that many groups take actions that are that extreme, then something must be extremely wrong that the people in charge are not going to fix.

Serious question: If there was such a consensus, why did it take so long for something to happen?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Serious question: If there was such a consensus, why did it take so long for something to happen?

How would we know that answer?

I dont think it is as easy as you previously tried to make it seem that you protest in a very non threatening (action wise, not physical) way and make your feelings known and then the issue will be taken care of.

This is why I applaud the football members even more because they have a platform to make this a national issue and force the university to really take a look at what is happening. Doesnt mean the university will find what they protesters think they should and it doesnt mean they will get what they want but they took action nonetheless. Just so happens this time they got their desired outcome.

[xu82]

I'm not against protesting and standing up for what you believe, but I don't like threats and ultimatums. There is a process that reaches the same results without going down that road. I get that people felt it wasn't fast enough here.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm not against protesting and standing up for what you believe, but I don't like threats and ultimatums. There is a process that reaches the same results without going down that road. I get that people felt it wasn't fast enough here.

So you dont believe in boycotts in any form?

[xu82]

So you dont believe in boycotts in any form?

Not in THIS form. No.

[Pete Delkus]

Winning battles, losing wars.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Not in THIS form. No.

I dont understand. Could you give an example of a boycott that you would support? In what situation would threats and ultimatums be acceptable to you and how is that different than this situation?

And just to clarify, what specifically is your issue in this situation? Dont you think the players deserve the right to protest in whatever way they deem fit that isnt breaking any laws? They assumed a risk as they could have faced actions such as a revoking of scholarship and they seemed to accept that risk for what they believed was right. Seems like if you have an issue with how this went down your issue should be with the university, not the protesters.

[Xville]

Let me ask a real question here and see if anyone can come up with a reasonable answer to it. What exactly was the university president supposed to do about a couple of racial slurs and a poopy swastika? This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen...sensationalist journalism at its finest, turned what a few stupid hicks did into a full blown national story that really isn't a story.

[xubrew]

Serious question: If there was such a consensus, why did it take so long for something to happen?

Well, apparently because the university president kept ignoring them. You've said several times that there are other ways, and I agree. But, when you use other methods and are basically ignored, then what??

[XU 87]

Well, apparently because the university president kept ignoring them. You've said several times that there are other ways, and I agree. But, when you use other methods and are basically ignored, then what??

When did he ignore things? That appears to be a made up myth. He had mandated diversity training and met with the student groups on several occasions.

And what exactly was he supposed to do about it? This started in September when some unknown guy in a pick up truck called someone the "N" word. Some other unknown guy yelled the "N" word at a group and someone posted a poopie swastika. What is the appropriate response from a university president to the above actions? Other than condemning the actions and threatening action to be taken against the perpetrators, what else should he do?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Let me ask a real question here and see if anyone can come up with a reasonable answer to it. What exactly was the university president supposed to do about a couple of racial slurs and a poopy swastika? This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen...sensationalist journalism at its finest, turned what a few stupid hicks did into a full blown national story that really isn't a story.


When did he ignore things? That appears to be a made up myth. and what exactly was he supposed to do about it? Some unknown guy in a pick up truck called someone the "N" word. Some other unknown guy yelled the "N" word at a group and someone posted a poopie swastika. What is the appropriate response from a university president to the above actions? Other than condemning them, what else should he do?

I dont think any of us know all the facts and all the instances that happened and how long it took for the president to address concerns but do you guys honestly believe that there were no real concerns on campus that this president did a poor job of addressing in some form or fashion, or waited until bad publicity forced him to come up with some sort of response or solution? I dont think it was 3 small incidents that precipitated this.

Do you honestly think faculty members, the student body governments, football players, hunger strike kid, and other groups were just being childish whiners? You think they all got together one day said "lets fuck with the school president" and made up unfounded concerns and and decided to stop performing their duties because they just wanted to mess with someone?

I have no idea what he was supposed to do but that is probably why I am not a school president (among many reasons). He clearly was very poor at addressing concerns of the people he is supposed to be leading. Or at least that was the perception of a large % of the campus, and he did nothing to that perception which obviously lead to his downfall.

[xu82]

Well, apparently because the university president kept ignoring them. You've said several times that there are other ways, and I agree. But, when you use other methods and are basically ignored, then what??

Surely he reported to a Board or someone for oversight? You take the age old strategy of going over someone's head.

[xubrew]

When did he ignore things? That appears to be a made up myth. and what exactly was he supposed to do about it? Some unknown guy in a pick up truck called someone the "N" word. Some other unknown guy yelled the "N" word at a group and someone posted a poopie swastika. What is the appropriate response from a university president to the above actions? Other than condemning them, what else should he do?

That really needs to be more documented, and I'm a little surprised that it's not.

From what I understand, it was more of an erosion than an impact. It wasn't one or two big things, but rather a thousand paper cuts (metaphorically speaking), and it had been building since September. The students who complained are saying that they were basically to go away and shut up. There was a ton of general racial tension that was not being addressed, and when they tried to point it out, he ignored them. What you can't do is just shrug your shoulders and tell them to go away.

But, just think about what happened. To look at it as just thirty football players who were acting childish is ignoring the overall campus-wide response to this. It really is remarkable. I hate to use this as an example (I really do), but just to kind of convey how over the top this was....many people thought Dez Wells was mistreated. Perhaps Chris Mack did as well. Yet, Chris Mack remained silent as you expect him to. He didn't come out and publicly say it was a huge injustice, and that he would back anyone who blamed the president. You just don't see a coach or any university official doing something like that very often.

Yet, at Mizzou, the coach did say that about the president. So did the AD. So did the faculty. So did many of the alumni. I mean...that is an EXTREMELY strong reaction. Just based on how strong the reaction, I think you have to at least be curious about what actually happened, and not just assume that it was nothing. When was the last time the faculty just walked out on any campus?? On top of that, when was the last time the governor of the state supported the action?? In order for it to come to that, things must have been bad. Don't you think??

[XU 87]

I dont think any of us know all the facts and all the instances that happened and how long it took for the president to address concerns

Then how can you argue he took too long to address their concerns?

[XU 87]

I think the issue at hand was his lack of response to any of these incidents. Not that he did them or could have stopped them but chose to either not respond to them or address them.

See my post above.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Then how can you argue he took too long to address their concerns?


See my post above.

I was replying to a post of yours what the stated concerns were by the people protesting. It isnt my opinion it is theirs.

[xubrew]

Surely he reported to a Board or someone for oversight? You take the age old strategy of going over someone's head.

Are you talking about the students or faculty??

I don't think the football team, or the vast majority of students that aren't in student government, even know what the board of trustees is, who's on it, or how to get a hold of them.

I'm a little surprised that the faculty walked out. That's pretty over the top. You'd think they would have a no confidence vote, or some sort of statement through the faculty senate before just throwing up the deuces.

Again, this was an extreme reaction. It was so extreme and so unprecedented that I don't think you can just jump to the conclusion that it was entirely unwarranted and that people were just being childish. Maybe they were. I don't know. But, I sure as hell wouldn't just suppose that. You just don't see university faculties walking out with the state's governor (who oversees the Board you're talking about) supporting the action all that often.

[Xville]

Are you talking about the students or faculty??

I don't think the football team, or the vast majority of students that aren't in student government, even know what the board of trustees is, who's on it, or how to get a hold of them.

I'm a little surprised that the faculty walked out. That's pretty over the top. You'd think they would have a no confidence vote, or some sort of statement through the faculty senate before just throwing up the deuces.

Again, this was an extreme reaction. It was so extreme and so unprecedented that I don't think you can just jump to the conclusion that it was entirely unwarranted and that people were just being childish. Maybe they were. I don't know. But, I sure as hell wouldn't just suppose that. You just don't see university faculties walking out with the state's governor (who oversees the Board you're talking about) supporting the action all that often.

The same governor who did absolutely nothing when the Ferguson riots were going on until it was too late? Yeah Nixon is a complete joke of a governor and him supporting the actions is just more proof of how much of a joke this all is.

[xubrew]

The same governor who did absolutely nothing when the Ferguson riots were going on until it was too late? Yeah Nixon is a complete joke of a governor and him supporting the actions is just more proof of how much of a joke this all is.

Okay Xville. Just assume it's a joke. There's no reason to question an unprecedented reaction such as a university's faculty walking out. It's silly to even inquire what it was that caused that kind of a response. Just dismiss it as silly, don't ask any questions, and just jump to the conclusion that they're overreacting to nothing.

The reason the president had to step down was because that was his exact attitude when they first tried to bring it to his attention.

[STL_XUfan]

And now the Chancellor is "moving into a different position" at the conclusion of the semester.

[XU 87]

Here are a list of the demands:

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/11/08/missouri-protest-list-demands-issued-to-university.html

I wonder if they wanted him to "acknowledge his white male privilege" before or after he agreed to their demand that "he resign immediately".

[bobbiemcgee]

That clown only missed the world record for hunger strikes by 91 days.

[XU 87]

Okay Xville. Just assume it's a joke. There's no reason to question an unprecedented reaction such as a university's faculty walking out. It's silly to even inquire what it was that caused that kind of a response. Just dismiss it as silly, don't ask any questions, and just jump to the conclusion that they're overreacting to nothing.

The reason the president had to step down was because that was his exact attitude when they first tried to bring it to his attention.

I for one never said "don't inquire about this". I just want to see some facts that the president actually did something wrong. So far I haven't seen any.

And could you describe what "his exact attitude" was and the facts that support this description of "his exact attitude"?

[D-West & PO-Z]

I for one never said "don't inquire about this". I just want to see some facts that the president actually did something wrong. So far I haven't seen any.

And could you describe what "his exact attitude" was and the facts that support this description of "his exact attitude"?

You dont believe the board investigated and found facts that led them to their decision to accept his resignation?

The president apologized a few days ago for not addressing certain things and then I dont know if it was him or someone from the board of curators that apologized again for slow responses to the issues on campus.

[xu82]

Here are a list of the demands:

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/11/08/missouri-protest-list-demands-issued-to-university.html

I wonder if they wanted him to "acknowledge his white male privilege" before or after he agreed to their demand that "he resign immediately".

I like this even less after reading the "demands". I'm not sticking up for the president, but I don't like the demands either.

[D-West & PO-Z]

You dont believe the board investigated and found facts that led them to their decision to accept his resignation?

The president apologized a few days ago for not addressing certain things and then I dont know if it was him or someone from the board of curators that apologized again for slow responses to the issues on campus.

Here is a quote from the president:

“I take full responsibility for this frustration,” he added, “and I take full responsibility for the inaction that has occurred.”

[Xville]

You dont believe the board investigated and found facts that led them to their decision to accept his resignation?

The president apologized a few days ago for not addressing certain things and then I dont know if it was him or someone from the board of curators that apologized again for slow responses to the issues on campus.

What issues? The only issues were that some stupid white hicks called black kids names...sorry that's horrible but in the reality of all things that is pretty darn miniscule and in no way justifies a a president having to resign.

The only reason the president had to resign was money..it's pretty easy to read between the lines here. If the football players don't take a stand, none of you even know about any of this. Once the football players said something and made serious threats, that's when all of a sudden the media gave a crap and this became a story. They forced the university's hand whether you want to believe it to be that simple or not.

[D-West & PO-Z]

What issues? The only issues were that some stupid white hicks called black kids names...sorry that's horrible but in the reality of all things that is pretty darn miniscule and in no way justifies a a president having to resign.

The only reason the president had to resign was money..it's pretty easy to read between the lines here. If the football players don't take a stand, none of you even know about any of this. Once the football players said something and made serious threats, that's when all of a sudden the media gave a crap and this became a story. They forced the university's hand whether you want to believe it to be that simple or not.

You cant possibly believe those were the only issues. And those werent even the big issue, the biggest issue according to those so upset was continued lack of action or response to the concerns of those people upset. How is that hard to understand? Multiple people in power at the school have already apologized for that including the guy on the way out.

Not sure why you are continually trying to trivialize a pretty big event at Mizzou. You keep acting like this is a non story that a bunch of whiners are just stirring up trouble. News flash the board of curators just force out the president of the university, this is definitely a story.

[Xville]

Okay Xville. Just assume it's a joke. There's no reason to question an unprecedented reaction such as a university's faculty walking out. It's silly to even inquire what it was that caused that kind of a response. Just dismiss it as silly, don't ask any questions, and just jump to the conclusion that they're overreacting to nothing.

The reason the president had to step down was because that was his exact attitude when they first tried to bring it to his attention.

Yep because if there was something more oppressive that happened, trust me our lovely media would have found it out already.

I really don't think some whack job faculty members sitting out is such a momentous thing. There are plenty of people that don't have a clue in academia as well. We should all know...we all had some of those teachers.

[xubrew]

I for one never said "don't inquire about this". I just want to see some facts that the president actually did something wrong. So far I haven't seen any.

And could you describe what "his exact attitude" was and the facts that support this description of "his exact attitude"?

...and I never said that you did. The post you quoted wasn't aimed at you.

But, since you asked, according to his own statements, his attitude was that he was dismissive toward something that had slowly been building since September. I don't know that he did anything wrong either. I never said that he did. All I said was that this reaction was over the top. It was so much over the top that I don't see how anyone can just jump to the conclusion that it was merely an overreaction. And, again, I don't think it was YOU who said that.

[Xville]

You cant possibly believe those were the only issues. And those werent even the big issue, the biggest issue according to those so upset was continued lack of action or response to the concerns of those people upset. How is that hard to understand? Multiple people in power at the school have already apologized for that including the guy on the way out.

Not sure why you are continually trying to trivialize a pretty big event at Mizzou. You keep acting like this is a non story that a bunch of whiners are just stirring up trouble. News flash the board of curators just force out the president of the university, this is definitely a story.

Yeah forced out because they were scared of a multimillion dollar football program. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. This has been going on for months..when did you first hear about any of this? Saturday? Yeah. The only reason this became a story was because 30 football players decided to make it a story.

[XU 87]

You dont believe the board investigated and found facts that led them to their decision to accept his resignation?



I don't know. I am just asking for facts as to what he did wrong that rise to the level that he should be forced to resign. So far I've seen none.

[Xville]

I don't know. I am just asking for facts. So far I've seen none.

Their facts were oh shit the football team is involved and they are our cash cow...our hands are tied we accept your resignation.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't know. I am just asking for facts. So far I've seen none.

Yeah hopefully more details come out.

The president himself did admit and apologize for the "inaction" that occurred.

[xu82]

Yeah hopefully more details come out.

The president himself did admit and apologize for the "inaction" that occurred.

Or at the very least he fell on the sword and asked for peace. Hopefully this can become old news fast.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yeah forced out because they were scared of a multimillion dollar football program. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. This has been going on for months..when did you first hear about any of this? Saturday? Yeah. The only reason this became a story was because 30 football players decided to make it a story.

I have never argued that the story escalated and the response was quicker because football players got involved. Of course it did. Doesnt mean the action taken wasnt warranted, just meant those with some influence finally got involved moved things along quicker. Again good for the players for taking a stand for something they believed in that did not come without significant risk.

[Xville]

Yeah hopefully more details come out.

The president himself did admit and apologize for the "inaction" that occurred.

What do you expect him to say? These people are freaking nuts and I can't believe I was forced to resign? The guy is now without a job...I'm guessing he is going to want to work somewhere again. He has to save face especially with the media.

[XU 87]

...and I never said that you did. The post you quoted wasn't aimed at you.

But, since you asked, according to his own statements, his attitude was that he was dismissive toward something that had slowly been building since September. I don't know that he did anything wrong either. I never said that he did. All I said was that this reaction was over the top. It was so much over the top that I don't see how anyone can just jump to the conclusion that it was merely an overreaction. And, again, I don't think it was YOU who said that.

I knew your comment wasn't directed at me.

But is that the new standard- people should get fired based on other people's subjective reactions to events? If someone yells loud enough and long enough, there must be some truth to their complaints?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Or at the very least he fell on the sword and asked for peace. Hopefully this can become old news fast.

Why do you want this to become old news fast? I'm curious for more details. What other examples of racism? What is the university planning on doing to address it?

[D-West & PO-Z]

What do you expect him to say? These people are freaking nuts and I can't believe I was forced to resign? The guy is now without a job...I'm guessing he is going to want to work somewhere again. He has to save face especially with the media.

He didnt have to admit inaction took place. He could have said many other things while saving face.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I knew your comment wasn't directed at me.

But is that the new standard- people should get fired based on other people's subjective reactions to events? If someone yells loud enough and long enough, there must be some truth to their complaints?

It seemed to be a pretty diverse set of groups across campus who were all yelling the same thing. It seemed to at least require more investigation by the President's bosses, which is what happened.

[Xville]

I have never argued that the story escalated and the response was quicker because football players got involved. Of course it did. Doesnt mean the action taken wasnt warranted, just meant those with some influence finally got involved moved things along quicker. Again good for the players for taking a stand for something they believed in that did not come without significant risk.

That's where you and I diagree then...I don't think it was warranted. What the heck is a university president supposed to do about the events that took place. That student group is freaking nuts.

[XU 87]

Yeah hopefully more details come out.

The president himself did admit and apologize for the "inaction" that occurred.

What does that mean there was "inaction"? What action was he supposed to take? What is the reasonable time to take such action?

So far, we have established that we don't know who was involved in the alleged conduct or what this president did wrong to cause his resignation.

[D-West & PO-Z]

What does that mean there was "inaction"? What action was he supposed to take? What is the reasonable time to take such action?

So far, we have established that we don't know who was involved in the alleged conduct or what this president did wrong to cause his resignation.

The word "inaction" was his, you'd have to ask him.

[Xville]

It seemed to be a pretty diverse set of groups across campus who were all yelling the same thing. It seemed to at least require more investigation by the President's bosses, which is what happened.

Black student groups and white liberal groups who think they should bow down because of how privileged they are.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That's where you and I diagree then...I don't think it was warranted. What the heck is a university president supposed to do about the events that took place. That student group is freaking nuts.

I never said one way or the other is it was warranted, I dont know, I dont have all the facts or info. What I said was it doesnt mean it wasnt warranted just because football players brought more awareness to it.

Also student groups, plural, that were involved with wanting this. And also faculty groups apparently.

[xubrew]

Yeah forced out because they were scared of a multimillion dollar football program. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. This has been going on for months..when did you first hear about any of this? Saturday? Yeah. The only reason this became a story was because 30 football players decided to make it a story.

Okay, so you believe that the faculty, AND the alumni, AND the vast majority of students who were protesting had nothing to do with it. There is no chance whatsoever that the president did anything wrong. Everybody is just angry for no reason, but that doesn't really matter because no one cares about everyone else. They just care about the thirty football players. They're to blame for all of this because their actions resulted in the president having to resign even though he did nothing wrong. Gee, great perspective based on not really knowing much of anything!

Maybe that is what happened, but I think that is a very presumptuous take if you don't know what happened, which I don't think any of us really do.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Black student groups and white liberal groups who think they should bow down because of how privileged they are.

The student government is a liberal group, how do you know?

[xu82]

Why do you want this to become old news fast? I'm curious for more details. What other examples of racism? What is the university planning on doing to address it?

Because it's ugly and, quite frankly, I don't like the "demands" very much. Any suggestion that people should be hired based on race rather than qualification is, in my mind, racist. And there it is in their demands. I don't want to hear all about Affirmative Action or anything else. Take race out of the picture and hire the best people, regardless of whether you have 7% or 80% "minorites". I really don't care. I'm not ssure who is more wrong, but I think it's on both sides in this case to at least some extent. Do you want this to be fixed, or to continue? I say fix it and put it in the past.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Because it's ugly and, quite frankly, I don't like the "demands" very much. Any suggestion that people should be hired based on race rather than qualification is, in my mind, racist. And there it is in their demands. I don't want to hear all about Affirmative Action or anything else. Take race out of the picture and hire the best people, regardless of whether you have 7% or 80% "minorites". I really don't care. I'm not ssure who is more wrong, but I think it's on both sides in this case to at least some extent. Do you want this to be fixed, or to continue? I say fix it and put it in the past.

I would prefer it fixed and for the campus to find peace and for people not to feel threatened on their campus by other students. I dont want the story to just disappear because there are ugly uncomfortable aspects to it though. Hopefully they resolve everything for all parties.

[Xville]

Okay, so you believe that the faculty, AND the alumni, AND the vast majority of students who were protesting had nothing to do with it. There is no chance whatsoever that the president did anything wrong. Everybody is just angry for no reason, but that doesn't really matter because no one cares about everyone else. They just care about the thirty football players. They're to blame for all of this because their actions resulted in the president having to resign even though he did nothing wrong. Gee, great perspective based on not really knowing much of anything!

Well considering I'm from the area, have family and friends currently attending there, and family in politics at the state level, I think I know quite a bit.

I think you are naïve to just how powerful college sports in particular football has really become. This would have never gotten the media attention it for without them...which led to the Monday meeting because they had to do something immediately since there is a game saturday.

Yes these groups were angry and in their minds they had a right to be angry...no I don't think the president did anything wrong. He is just the one that had to fall on the sword.

[Xville]

The student government is a liberal group, how do you know?

You're kidding right? It's a college campus

[D-West & PO-Z]

You're kidding right? It's a college campus

No not kidding. I knew personally people on the student government at my school when I was there who were very conservative, including the president.

[Juice]

Holy shit, the video of the protesters and the two teachers keeping out the reporter from the school newspaper is bat shit insane. Those teachers should be fired immediately.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Well considering I'm from the area, have family and friends currently attending there, and family in politics at the state level, I think I know quite a bit.

I think you are naïve to just how powerful college sports in particular football has really become. This would have never gotten the media attention it for without them...which led to the Monday meeting because they had to do something immediately since there is a game saturday.

Yes these groups were angry and in their minds they had a right to be angry...no I don't think the president did anything wrong. He is just the one that had to fall on the sword.

You seem to be blurring two separate issues. For some reason you think that just because football players got involved and accelerated the decision that the wrong decision was made. If the wrong decision was made it is the fault of the board for making the wrong decision. Again the football players had every right to do what they did and they did not force anyone to take any specific action. If the board made sports a priority of what was right then shame on them but that isnt anyone's fault than their own.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Holy shit, the video of the protesters and the two teachers keeping out the reporter from the school newspaper is bat shit insane. Those teachers should be fired immediately.

link? Keeping a reporter out of where?

[Xville]

You seem to be blurring two separate issues. For some reason you think that just because football players got involved and accelerated the decision that the wrong decision was made. If the wrong decision was made it is the fault of the board for making the wrong decision. Again the football players had every right to do what they did and they did not force anyone to take any specific action. If the board made sports a priority of what was right then shame on them but that isnt anyone's fault than their own.

Agree that if they made a decision based solely on what the football team did then they were wrong and I believe that is what happened. Again this is a non story and none of you would even know about this if they hadn't gotten involved. College football is big business.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Agree that if they made a decision based solely on what the football team did then they were wrong and I believe that is what happened. Again this is a non story and none of you would even know about this if they hadn't gotten involved. College football is big business.

I'm not sure why it matters that we wouldnt have known about it if the players didnt get involved? What is your point? Doesnt mean the problem didnt exist.

[STL_XUfan]

link? Keeping a reporter out of where?

http://youtu.be/xRlRAyulN4o

[Xville]

http://youtu.be/xRlRAyulN4o

More evidence that these people are complete hypocritical whackjobs. The first amendment only applies to them, and being disrespectful doesn't go both ways...they are victims..typical leftist mentality

[D-West & PO-Z]

http://youtu.be/xRlRAyulN4o

Holy shit. Thanks. Those people are nuts. The lady throughout the whole thing and then even more so the lady at the end. "I need some muscle over here"? If she is a teacher she should be disciplined I agree.

[Xville]

I'm not sure why it matters that we wouldnt have known about it if the players didnt get involved? What is your point? Doesnt mean the problem didnt exist.

Because the only reason things happened on Monday the way it did was because the story got out to the national media due to football players. That's the truth of the matter...otherwise there is no media pressure, and there is no ousting of the president. The only problem here that we know of is that some people got called names. Horrible names sure...but not ones that should lead to the ousting of a president...again I ask what was he supposed to do about a couple of white racists? That's why I think this whole thing is a complete joke.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Because the only reason things happened on Monday the way it did was because the story got out to the national media due to football players. That's the truth of the matter...otherwise there is no media pressure, and there is no ousting of the president. The only problem here that we know of is that some people got called names. Horrible names sure...but not ones that should lead to the ousting of a president...again I ask what was he supposed to do about a couple of white racists? That's why I think this whole thing is a complete joke.

That is most certainly not the only problem. You keep saying that but it doesnt make it true. The way you make it sound is that 3 people got called a name on a Friday and on Monday every student group and faculty and football players demanded the President was fired for it.

[Juice]

Holy shit. Thanks. Those people are nuts. The lady throughout the whole thing and then even more so the lady at the end. "I need some muscle over here"? If she is a teacher she should be disciplined I agree.

Both of those women are teachers. Their names have been put out on the internet.

Look at one's twitter background: https://twitter.com/bacafl0ckaflame/status/663882744490024960/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

She also requested media coverage two days ago: http://cdn.barstoolsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/09/Screen-Shot-2015-11-09-at-7.43.42-PM.jpg?9e76a5

[D-West & PO-Z]

Both of those women are teachers. Their names have been put out on the internet.

Look at one's twitter background: https://twitter.com/bacafl0ckaflame/status/663882744490024960/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

She also requested media coverage two days ago: http://cdn.barstoolsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/09/Screen-Shot-2015-11-09-at-7.43.42-PM.jpg?9e76a5

nuts

[Xville]

That is most certainly not the only problem. You keep saying that but it doesnt make it true. The way you make it sound is that 3 people got called a name on a Friday and on Monday every student group and faculty and football players demanded the President was fired for it.

Sorry some people got called names, there was a poppy swastika and the president didn't do enough about it...whatever that was supposed to be. Those are the problems. You just saw that video...those are the people representing this fiasco.

[STL_XUfan]

You can't protest in public and then be upset when your privacy in the middle of the quad is violated. If you need space to recoup, return to your dorm room. Also, the media gave them the power in this incident, why fight back against them?

[xu82]

Holy shit. Thanks. Those people are nuts. The lady throughout the whole thing and then even more so the lady at the end. "I need some muscle over here"? If she is a teacher she should be disciplined I agree.

Completely nuts! I don't think I'd want them on my side of an argument..... I'd have to question my position. All that "I'm allowed to walk forward" sounds like a 4 year old telling his sister "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!" with his hands around her head. They may (or may not) have some good points, but they lose big time on credibility!

[GoMuskies]

http://youtu.be/xRlRAyulN4o

Holy crap those people are morons.

[xu82]

Both of those women are teachers. Their names have been put out on the internet.

Look at one's twitter background: https://twitter.com/bacafl0ckaflame/status/663882744490024960/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

She also requested media coverage two days ago: http://cdn.barstoolsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/09/Screen-Shot-2015-11-09-at-7.43.42-PM.jpg?9e76a5

Priceless! Inmates running the asylum may have been too kind!

[waggy]

Holy crap those people are morons.


And they probably wonder why they attract racists.

[xu82]

And they probably wonder why they attract racists.

Calling them crazy certainly makes you a racist. It works for every situation, one size fits all type of attack.

[D-West & PO-Z]

You can't protest in public and then be upset when your privacy in the middle of the quad is violated. If you need space to recoup, return to your dorm room. Also, the media gave them the power in this incident, why fight back against them?

Yeah exactly.

[Xville]

Those people were obviously racist against asians. I'm starting a concernedcitizensagainststupidcollegeprofessors group. I'll write my list of demands down tomorrow and send them to the last lady who looks like she may have given birth to carrot top

[D-West & PO-Z]

And they probably wonder why they attract racists.

The craziest people in the video are white teachers.

Actually I;d say of all people seen in the video it was around 60% to 40% white to black.

[waggy]

The craziest people in the video are white teachers.

Actually I;d say of all people seen in the video it was around 60% to 40% white to black.


And you've made more than 1 out of 4 posts in this thread.

Which is a more useful stat in my opinion.

[D-West & PO-Z]

And you've made more than 1 out of 4 posts in this thread.

Which is a more useful stat in my opinion.

I dont get it.

[waggy]

I dont get it.

Don't worry. Most everyone else that reads it will.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Don't worry. Most everyone else that reads it will.

Allegedly.

Your comment about them attracting racists makes nor sense, since the racists were racist toward black people and the crazy people in the video were mostly white, with the 2 craziest both white.

[Pete Delkus]

Quote...What we witnessed at Mizzou has nothing much to do with racism. It has everything to do with Tim Wolfe's unwillingness to play the leading role in the great theater of White Guilt.


http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/mizzou-player-strike-raises-fascinating-questions-110815

[xubrew]

http://youtu.be/xRlRAyulN4o

Everybody at Mizzou is crazy. If you go out in public to demonstrate, then isn't the whole idea to get people to notice you?? What's funny is that they actually did that guy a favor. He's got a great story. And, instead of the story being about what they were demonstrating for, it's about HOW they demonstrated. NICELY DONE!!

[Juice]

Everybody at Mizzou is crazy. If you go out in public to demonstrate, then isn't the whole idea to get people to notice you?? What's funny is that they actually did that guy a favor. He's got a great story. And, instead of the story being about what they were demonstrating for, it's about HOW they demonstrated. NICELY DONE!!

This is the reporter's/student's twitter account: https://twitter.com/nonorganical

[Snipe]

Has any of the allegations of racism been proven? Have they put forward any names?

As for the poop swastika, you can genetically test the poop and see where it came from. Not that you have a DNA profile of all the students, but genetic markers exist in poop I believe. You could probably tell the race of the pooper. That could be useful if it turns out this is just another hoax, as most of them are. I would bet it at even money that one of the activists did the poop swastika. That happens all the time and has been going on for years.

If I was the President I would have fired the AD and the Coach and told any player that doesn't show up he just lost his scholarship and not let them attend one more class.

I still have seen one credible thing the guy did wrong. He didn't do the poop swastika, and he certainly didn't like it. I guess he just didn't not like it enough to conclude the whole school is a hotbed of racism.

The police were asked if they tested the poop and they refused to answer. Honestly I think if a lab tech at the crime lab came out and said he tested the poop and it was African American poop he would probably be fired for being insensitive.

[xu82]

Yes, let us back up to the poop swastikas, and I'll tell you what kept me awake last night. Is this "a thing" people do? Who thought of this? Did some red neck/nazi/recycle freak sit on the crapper and say "Gee, flushing that seems like such a waste. We can re-purpose... I know.... hey guys, come in here! Who wants to do some finger painting with me?" All this at an institution of higher education. Wouldn't a Sharpie have done the job? I mean, who is the joke really on here? (I know, I know, it's hurtful and wrong... but really?). What's the next step? "Hey, I'm going to call you a name, and then, to show how much I mean it, I'm going to light myself on fire!" There's just way too much about this whole thing that is so crazy I can't wrap my arms around it.

[Pete Delkus]

Jason Whitlock on Mizzou

"Young people – of all colors and economic levels – are not nurtured the way they used to be. They’re far more sensitive and vulnerable than previous generations. What rolled off our shoulders crushes them. They see themselves as unwilling to take shit. We see them as soft and unprepared for a world that has never once been fair or concerned with individual feelings."

Can't wait till the day some Hillbillie emblazons the Confederate Flag with boogers on a dorm room mirror...WWIII.

[BandAid]

There has to be more to this, right?

A few racial slurs said at different times around campus, a truck with Confederate flags, a fecal swastika, and a poorly placed comment about privilege leads to high level administrators getting canned. I know for a fact two of those things occurred at Xavier while I was there (and probably occur at most college campuses regrettably), and there was an incident in which the GSC's auditorium control room was vandalized with literal racial threats (not perverse abstract art).

I'm not trying to defend Mizzou's president; it just seems like a lot for a little. There has to be me more.

[Xville]

I think a lot of the problem with the generation that is in college is that many of them have been raised to believe that they have the right to never be offended by someone or something. When, in actuality, the opposite is true. We live in a free world (thank goodness) where it is our right to be offended each and every single day.

[Xville]

There has to be more to this, right?

A few racial slurs said at different times around campus, a truck with Confederate flags, a fecal swastika, and a poorly placed comment about privilege leads to high level administrators getting canned. I know for a fact two of those things occurred at Xavier while I was there (and probably occur at most college campuses regrettably), and there was an incident in which the GSC's auditorium control room was vandalized with literal racial threats (not perverse abstract art).

I'm not trying to defend Mizzou's president; it just seems like a lot for a little. There has to be me more.

The truth is that there isn't...I mean not in the "racist" offense. The president did some other things such as ending abortions at a planned parenthood clinic. http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/university-of-missouri-ends-clinical-privileges-for-planned-parenthood-doctor/article_4246f42d-23d8-5c3a-ae55-5a548f09fc6a.html

and the university ended funding for graduate student health insurance http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/university-of-missouri-ends-funding-for-graduate-student-health-insurance/article_a58ab3d6-890c-58e8-9da3-87a5a90ef757.html

I'm sure that these same people complaining about the graduate student health insurance debacle, are the same ones that championed Obamacare....that is who they should be upset with.

Again though none of these things should oust a president. However, this is the type of world we live in today.

[xubrew]

Jason Whitlock on Mizzou

"Young people – of all colors and economic levels – are not nurtured the way they used to be. They’re far more sensitive and vulnerable than previous generations. What rolled off our shoulders crushes them. They see themselves as unwilling to take shit. We see them as soft and unprepared for a world that has never once been fair or concerned with individual feelings."

Can't wait till the day some Hillbillie emblazons the Confederate Flag with boogers on a dorm room mirror...WWIII.

Okay, so how would he explain things like People's Park at Berkley, and dozens of other incidents just like it?? For those that don't know People's Park was basically students who wanted to build a park on a development site that was currently not being developed. They were told no, but started to do it anyway. They were told to leave, and didn't. They were forced to leave, and went completely apeshit.

Student protests are nothing new. Student protests with an ingredient of narcissism are nothing new. I actually get it from the standpoint of the students. There is something intoxicating about being part of what you feel is a collective cause. That's nothing new. To say that previous generations didn't do the same is not knowing your history. PCU was made twenty years ago, which was an entire generation ago, and one of the running jokes was how the students were always getting offended over nothing and protesting for no reason. So, Whitlock is wrong. Again.

What got my attention was that the faculty, coaches, university administrators, and basically (for lack of a better term, the ADULTS) actually backed the students. That IS a little bit odd. How many times has a university's faculty walked out in support of a student protest?? The ones who supported them came from the 'not-nurtured' generation that Whitlock is referencing. That's what made me sit up and take notice more than anything. Had it not been for that, I would have probably just shrugged it off. Whenever the next Hunger Games movie or iPhone came out, the students would have lost interest entirely and it would have been yesterday's news.

[Juice]

"@seanmdav: Janna Basler, the Mizzou employee seen pushing a photographer on camera, decided not to come in to work today, according to a staffer."

[GoMuskies]

"@seanmdav: Janna Basler, the Mizzou employee seen pushing a photographer on camera, decided not to come in to work today, according to a staffer."

Seems like it would be good for her to make the same decision every day from here on out.

[OH.X.MI]

What got my attention was that the faculty, coaches, university administrators, and basically (for lack of a better term, the ADULTS) actually backed the students. That IS a little bit odd. How many times has a university's faculty walked out in support of a student protest?? The ones who supported them came from the 'not-nurtured' generation that Whitlock is referencing. That's what made me sit up and take notice more than anything.

Professors taking part in some "social justice movement"? Unheard of. I wonder how many of the faculty protesters were from the business school, engineering school, or medical school? My guess - it's was mostly comprised of faculty like the woman the video posted above who's "current research projects involve 50 Shades of Grey readers, the impact of social media in fans’ relationship with Lady Gaga." (an actual quote from the university website).

The only people more reactionary in this country than college students are college professors.

[xu82]

I thought the faculty support was quite damning. Then I saw the faculty.

[muskiefan82]

What is the long term damage to Mizzou from this? If your kid is considering colleges, do you even have this one on the list any more? The President may have been removed/fired/resigned, but what will happen to the school? How long will it take to recover?

[xubrew]

What is the long term damage to Mizzou from this? If your kid is considering colleges, do you even have this one on the list any more? The President may have been removed/fired/resigned, but what will happen to the school? How long will it take to recover?

Probably not much. We quickly forget about stuff like this. Next semester almost no one will remember. What happened in Baltimore was far more extreme, and the vast majority of people aren't even thinking about it less than six months later.

[STL_XUfan]

What is the long term damage to Mizzou from this? If your kid is considering colleges, do you even have this one on the list any more? The President may have been removed/fired/resigned, but what will happen to the school? How long will it take to recover?

Realistically none. You are either A) in-state and could care less B) Out of state and you want to attend the J-School C) Out of state and you get a shitload of scholarship to make you forget about anything else.

[MADXSTER]

This is probably the best thing that could happen to Louisville. Take some of the spot light away from them.

[Juice]

Mizzou Police issued this statement today. What fucking planet are we living on?


From: MU POLICE
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 9:52 AM
To: MU POLICE
Subject: Reporting Hateful and/or Hurtful Speech

To continue to ensure that the University of Missouri campus remains safe, the MU Police Department (MUPD) is asking individuals who witness incidents of hateful and/or hurtful speech or actions to:

Call the police immediately at 573-882-7201. (If you are in an emergency situation, dial 911.)
Give the communications operator a summary of the incident, including location.
Provide a detailed description of the individual(s) involved.
Provide a license plate and vehicle descriptions (if appropriate).
If possible and if it can be done safely, take a photo of the individual(s) with your cell phone.
Delays, including posting information to social media, can often reduce the chances of identifying the responsible parties. While cases of hateful and hurtful speech are not crimes, if the individual(s) identified are students, MU's Office of Student Conduct can take disciplinary action."

[xubrew]

The photographer should have called the cops.

[muskiefan82]

Mizzou Police issued this statement today. What fucking planet are we living on?

There is a George Orwell book that this seems to be moving towards........

[D-West & PO-Z]

Mizzou Police issued this statement today. What fucking planet are we living on?

What is the problem with that? They state that it clearly isnt a crime but if a student is going around campus screaming the N word at black people or other derogatory things at other races or groups then they can be discipline by the student conduct board. That seems pretty obvious. Its been in the news recently at other schools where students were disciplined for things they said. Just because it isnt a crime doesnt mean there arent consequences of some sort for the things that come out of our mouths. Hell, people on this board get their accounts suspended for saying offensive things. I dont get the huge problem with that statement.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The photographer should have called the cops.

Ha, this I agree.

[Xville]

Agree with all of this

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/RadioShows/FeatureInterviews/tabid/339/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/19472/Clay-Travis-Mizzou-Protestors-are-Idiots.aspx

[STL_XUfan]

A good take on the situation by a current MU Law Professor:


Supporting my Mizzou Students

Thom Lambert (http://truthonthemarket.com/author/tlambert1/) — 10 November 2015 — 1 Comment (http://truthonthemarket.com/2015/11/10/supporting-my-mizzou-students/#comments)


Unless you live under a rock, you know that the president and chancellor of the University of Missouri, where I teach law, have resigned in response to protests over their failure to respond to several (three identified) racist incidents on campus. A group called Concerned Student 1950 staged a series of protests and demanded (http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/columbiatribune.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/45/345ad844-9f05-5479-9b64-e4b362b4e155/563fd24f5a949.pdf.pdf), among other things, that our president resign, that he publicly denounce his white privilege, that the university mandate a “comprehensive racial awareness and inclusion curriculum,” and that the percentage of black faculty and staff be increased to 10% by the 2017-18 school year. Last week, a student embarked on a hunger strike until Concerned Student 1950’s demands were met, and students in solidarity moved into a tent village on one of our quads. Over the weekend, the black members of our football team threatened to boycott play until the president resigned, and our coach, facing four straight losses and little prospect of another victory this season, agreed to support and publicize the boycott. Yesterday morning, Mizzou faculty supporting the Concerned Student group walked out of their classes and headed to the quad, where faculty and administrators joined protesting students in blocking media access (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRlRAyulN4o) to the tent village in the middle of our public quad. Around 10:00 AM, the president resigned, and protesting students danced on the quad. Toward the end of the day, the chancellor announced that he will move from his position at the end of the year.

The Mizzou Faculty Council and the administration of the law school have expressed to Mizzou students that the faculty fully supports them. We faculty members have been encouraged to express that support ourselves. I want to do that now.

I want to express my support for the students for a couple of reasons. First, I really love Mizzou. It’s a special place full of wonderful students. I visited at the University of Minnesota a few years back, and I couldn’t wait to get back to Mizzou. Our students reflect the amazing diversity of our state: inner city kids from St. Louis and Kansas City, kids from the suburbs, kids with southern accents from the bootheel, kids with near-Minnesota accents from the northern part of the state, rich kids from fancy prep schools, poor kids who went to public school in the inner city or farm towns. Unlike so many public law schools, Mizzou has kept its operating costs and its tuition at reasonable levels, so an education here is really open to just about all qualified students from the state. (Minnesota’s in-state law school tuition is $41,222; Missouri’s is $19,545.) We mix everyone together and end up with a wonderful student body. I simply adore my students.

Second, I want to support students who have been the subject of racist remarks because I, too, have experienced the pain of being mocked, criticized, ridiculed, etc. for who I am. I was a not-very-athletic gay kid who attended the very traditional and somewhat jockish Fairview Christian Academy. I followed that up with Wheaton College, Billy Graham’s alma mater. For most of my formative years, I was continually reminded that I was deficient, flawed, damned. Express slurs were few and far between (though they occurred), but I was not accepted for who I am. I know the pain of exclusion, and I want both to provide an empathetic ear to my students who feel excluded and to sound a prophetic voice against those who discriminate.
But I could not really support my Mizzou students in this difficult time if I did not point out a few things.

First–The top administrators of a school of 35,000 people cannot prevent all instances of racism. Ignorant, mean people are sometimes going to yell slurs from their pick-up trucks when they drive through campus. Drunken frat boys are occasionally going to say ugly things. When you ambush the homecoming parade, to which parents have brought their small children for a rah-rah college experience, some people are not going to be nice to you. Those ambushed may be taken aback and may not say all the right things. People who draw things with poop are especially hard to control. Be prepared: The people who replace the deposed president and chancellor at Mizzou are unlikely to prevent every racist incident on our campus.
Second–The U.S. Constitution forbids state institutions from employing racial quotas. Having been involved in hiring at Mizzou for a number of years, I can assure that we bend over backward to fill open positions with qualified minority applicants. It is highly unlikely that Concerned Student 1950’s demand that the percentage of black faculty and staff at Mizzou be raised to 10% by 2017-18 can be implemented in a manner consistent with constitutional obligations. You should know that.

Third–Free speech means more than the freedom to express views with which you agree. I honestly think most Mizzou students understand this point, but I’m afraid that the administrator and communications professor in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRlRAyulN4o) don’t grasp it. Lest you be misled by their ill-advised bullying, you should know that the First Amendment is for everyone.

Fourth–Unreasonable demands have consequences. We will survive this, but Mizzou has been badly weakened. I can’t imagine that the press accounts from the last week will help with minority student and faculty recruitment next year. That’s a shame, because based on my encounters with a great many minority students and professors at Mizzou over the past twelve years, I believe most have had good experiences. Perhaps they haven’t been honest with me. Or perhaps the situation has changed in the last couple of years. If so, I’m terribly sorry to hear that. But, following the events of the last week, I can’t imagine that next year will be better.

Fifth–Regardless of your take on the events of the last week, I hope you will not let bitterness reign in your hearts. Unlike many of my gay friends from conservative religious backgrounds, I chose years ago not to write off those people who were once unkind to me. I’m glad I made that choice. I hope any Mizzou student who is currently feeling marginalized for any reason will keep calm, carry on, give others the benefit of the doubt, and be open to reconciliation.

So, Mizzou students, I support you. But I will not coddle you. You’re adults and should be treated as such.

[GoMuskies]

A good take on the situation by a current MU Law Professor:

Sorry, too sensible.

[D-West & PO-Z]

A good take on the situation by a current MU Law Professor:

Yeah good stuff there.

[xeus]

A good take on the situation by a current MU Law Professor:

Typical. It takes a lawyer to bring an intelligent perspective to the issue. Great post.

[BandAid]

I'm curious, how does one denounce their white privilege?

In my mind all I see is something like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElbguULEO0

[xeus]

I hope the students are prepping for the Mizzou game, which is one week from today.

I would like to see (at least) the following:

A cutout of Miss Frizzle from The Magic School Bus

http://www.xavierhoops.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1792&stc=1

Clever signs, including, but not limited to:

"Hey hey! Ho ho! Mizzou has got to go!"

"You lost this one bro!"

"Concerned Student 1831"

"Xavier students love the First Amendment"


Get it done.

[Juice]

What is the problem with that? They state that it clearly isnt a crime but if a student is going around campus screaming the N word at black people or other derogatory things at other races or groups then they can be discipline by the student conduct board. That seems pretty obvious. Its been in the news recently at other schools where students were disciplined for things they said. Just because it isnt a crime doesnt mean there arent consequences of some sort for the things that come out of our mouths. Hell, people on this board get their accounts suspended for saying offensive things. I dont get the huge problem with that statement.

Because there is a difference between calling someone the n-word and leaving it wide fricking open with "hateful or hurtful" speech.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Because there is a difference between calling someone the n-word and leaving it wide fricking open with "hateful or hurtful" speech.

To normal people and in the context of the issues that have preceded these events I think it is pretty clear what they mean but I grant you that it seems that a lot of the people on Mizzou's campus arent playing with a full deck and may use this anytime someone says something they dont like.

[Xville]

Because there is a difference between calling someone the n-word and leaving it wide fricking open with "hateful or hurtful" speech.

ding ding...

what line is going to be crossed here? "I don't really like your shoes." "Well that's hurtful and hateful to me....im calling MUPD" I know that's a ridiculous example, but really this is the point to which society has become. This generation have raised a bunch of pussies. Sorry I'm sure I offended someone with that word, but I don't really give a damn.

[muskiefan82]

ding ding...

what line is going to be crossed here? "I don't really like your shoes." "Well that's hurtful and hateful to me....im calling MUPD" I know that's a ridiculous example, but really this is the point to which society has become. This generation have raised a bunch of pussies. Sorry I'm sure I offended someone with that word, but I don't really give a damn.

So what happens on Saturday, when a Mizzou fan yells out to the players for Mizzou something along the lines of "Oh my God, you suck" or "You are the worst team in Mizzou history!" Is that hateful or hurtful speech? Will the student be disciplined? What if someone boo's the team or a player? Expulsion? People need thicker skins and I don't care what color that skin comes in.

[X-band '01]

Apparently there's an even longer version of the video with the cameraman and Concerned Student 1950: (courtesy of Clay Travis's Twitter feed)

Go to about the 7-minute mark if you want to see the Director's Cut.


https://t.co/afBcGg9Ugy

[OH.X.MI]

There is a George Orwell book that this seems to be moving towards........

"Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thoght? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it."

[Juice]

Mizzou journalism faculty voting to remove Click's status, call her acts 'clear violation of 1st Amendment rights' http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/mu-journalism-faculty-voting-to-remove-click-s-courtesy-appointment/article_6e2cedaa-87c7-11e5-ae63-87e5cacea580.html …

[Xville]

Mrs. Carrottop seems like a horrible human being. What is with her sarcastic "Yeah I'm a communications professor" statement? What is that even supposed to mean? She is acting like a three year old. I don't know if firing her is warranted, but I know the president's firing wasn't, so might as well fire crazy professor as well.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Apparently there's an even longer version of the video with the cameraman and Concerned Student 1950: (courtesy of Clay Travis's Twitter feed)

Go to about the 7-minute mark if you want to see the Director's Cut.


https://t.co/afBcGg9Ugy

Students are kind of expected to be idiots at times, those teachers though should be disciplined.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Mrs. Carrottop seems like a horrible human being. What is with her sarcastic "Yeah I'm a communications professor" statement? What is that even supposed to mean? She is acting like a three year old. I don't know if firing her is warranted, but I know the president's firing wasn't, so might as well fire crazy professor as well.

She seems to relish what small amount of power she has in the eyes of the students by "leading" them.

[waggy]

If disciplined means made to resign, I agree.

[X-band '01]

Students are kind of expected to be idiots at times, those teachers though should be disciplined.

Agreed. It's not realistic to expect 18-21 year olds to completely grasp the gravity of the situation, but how do you behave that way if you're a professor? Not surprisingly, Ms. Click has now locked her Twitter feed.

[Xville]

She seems to relish what small amount of power she has in the eyes of the students by "leading" them.

She has a PHD in gender studies....why am I not surprised.

[muskiefan82]

So, what happens if she is tenured and the students demand she be fired? That would be interesting.

[waggy]

I'm sure the black football players will boycott until she's removed.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm sure the black football players will boycott until she's removed.

Doesnt look like it will be necessary as her fate is being voted upon by her peers/supervisors in her department.

[xu82]

Agreed. It's not realistic to expect 18-21 year olds to completely grasp the gravity of the situation, but how do you behave that way if you're a professor? Not surprisingly, Ms. Click has now locked her Twitter feed.

This is why they are the students. Let adults decide what is ultimately the correct path. I feel the school screwed the pooch on this one and set a terrible precedent. Who's in charge? Not ignorant kids! If something is wrong, let adults address it rather than let kids threaten you with unconstitutional "demands". The students will learn in time, unless of course they follow in the path of the fine faculty of that school. The law professor was the only voice of reason.... where was he earlier? By all means, address what needs to be corrected, but not because some kid has a gun to your head. Because it's the right thing to do. Write the million dollar check for the BYU game (or negotiate it down) and boot the kids who didn't live up to their end of the deal. Yes, I can be stubborn.

[Strange Brew]

I hope the students are prepping for the Mizzou game, which is one week from today.

I would like to see (at least) the following:

A cutout of Miss Frizzle from The Magic School Bus

http://www.xavierhoops.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1792&stc=1

Clever signs, including, but not limited to:

"Hey hey! Ho ho! Mizzou has got to go!"

"You lost this one bro!"

"Concerned Student 1831"

"Xavier students love the First Amendment"


Get it done.

"I just had Skyline. Your finger painting supplies will be ready soon".

[D-West & PO-Z]

This is why they are the students. Let adults decide what is ultimately the correct path. I feel the school screwed the pooch on this one and set a terrible precedent. Who's in charge? Not ignorant kids! If something is wrong, let adults address it rather than let kids threaten you with unconstitutional "demands". The students will learn in time, unless of course they follow in the path of the fine faculty of that school. The law professor was the only voice of reason.... where was he earlier? By all means, address what needs to be corrected, but not because some kid has a gun to your head. Because it's the right thing to do. Write the million dollar check for the BYU game (or negotiate it down) and boot the kids who didn't live up to their end of the deal. Yes, I can be stubborn.

The only thing I will say is that in the eyes of the protesters (and from their interviews) the adults werent taking any action. The leaders of Mizzou may have screwed themselves earlier than this by dismissing concerns of the students on their campus. Lets not forget these students are paying the institution to go to schools their. They are in a way customers, you cant just dismiss their concerns and not expect anything to come of it.

One interview I saw of hunger strike kid stated that he had been there since 2008 when he started in undergrad and that he had been involved in bringing up concerns for years, writing letters and doing other things and that his hunger strike wasnt the first step but the last step. There is no way for us to know if that is true but if so the university made a mistake in dismissing student concerns.

One thing I did kind of laugh at him saying though was when his quote about the campus being unlivable was brought up he said that was true ever since he was there in '08, not to dismiss his concerns but that has to be a gross exaggeration, if that was the case then why chose to do grad school there as well?

[muskiefan82]

Do we know he is in grad school? He could just have been there since 2008 and working towards his Associates.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Do we know he is in grad school? He could just have been there since 2008 and working towards his Associates.

I believ I read somewhere he was a grad student.

[xu82]

That is pretty funny. Seems the kids a real fixture there! "It sucks so bad, they'll NEVER get rid of me!" I hope he's got a boatload of degrees.

I've never been on that campus, but I know some people are just complainers. Cry wolf often enough....(possibly). If there are (only) 3 documeneted instances, I can't see this as the end of the world. You can find that ANYWHERE! If there's a secret vault with tons of other evidence, we've got a new ball game.

[waggy]

I think the lesson to be learned here is that if black kids can't be trusted to show up, and instead want to boycott, they'll just be fewer of them on the team.


Way to use your collective power, brainiacs.

[xu82]

I believ I read somewhere he was a grad student.

We can only hope! Or.... they could be like the kids my son just texted me about. He was at the leasing office at his apartment building and a cleaning lady came down complaining the Vanderbilt kids were not only smoking pot (they're always doing that so no biggie), but they wanted her to clean around the lines of coke on the living room table. That will extend your college experience. Kids are so brazen and many think they have power with no fear of consequences. I call Bullchit! How about,"sure, I'll clean around your lines slowly enough that I'll still be here to see the cops put the cuffs on you!"

[D-West & PO-Z]

We can only hope! Or.... they could be like the kids my son just texted me about. He was at the leasing office at his apartment building and a cleaning lady came down complaining the Vanderbilt kids were not only smoking pot (they're always doing that so no biggie), but they wanted her to clean around the lines of coke on the living room table. That will extend your college experience. Kids are so brazen and many think they have power with no fear of consequences. I call Bullchit! How about,"sure, I'll clean around your lines slowly enough that I'll still be here to see the cops put the cuffs on you!"

I jsut read he has an undergrad degree and is pursuing a masters but also runs a not for profit photography company he started to combat human trafficking. Also has worked as a graduate research assistant. Don't know when he started graduate school, could have been a few years after undergrad or could have been right away.

[D-West & PO-Z]

In reading about this I read about an incident at Mizzou a few years ago during black history month where cotton balls were found scattered on the lawn of the Black Culture Center. In 2011 a racial slur was spray painted onto a statue outside a dorm hall and 2012 racist flyers were posted in another dorm.

A teacher at the school posted stories of being called the N word while jogging on several occasions and more troublesome being called the N word by faculty members.

Obviously I dont know what is or isnt rue or if there are more examples, etc but this whole thing cant have been built around frustrations of just 3 events and it doesnt seem that to be the case.

[xubrew]

Mizzou journalism faculty voting to remove Click's status, call her acts 'clear violation of 1st Amendment rights' http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/mu-journalism-faculty-voting-to-remove-click-s-courtesy-appointment/article_6e2cedaa-87c7-11e5-ae63-87e5cacea580.html …

What's their reason for firing her?? Are they firing her for knowingly denying someone access to a place they had every right to be, or are they firing her for being too stupid to understand the First Amendment and they're embarrassed to have a professor working there that's so stupid


We can only hope! Or.... they could be like the kids my son just texted me about. He was at the leasing office at his apartment building and a cleaning lady came down complaining the Vanderbilt kids were not only smoking pot (they're always doing that so no biggie), but they wanted her to clean around the lines of coke on the living room table. That will extend your college experience. Kids are so brazen and many think they have power with no fear of consequences. I call Bullchit! How about,"sure, I'll clean around your lines slowly enough that I'll still be here to see the cops put the cuffs on you!"

What the??

Lining out coke and just having it sit there without snorting it is like opening a bunch of beers and having them sit there without drinking it. That's two levels of dumb. Snorting coke isn't smart, but lining it out and just leaving it sitting there may actually be dumber. It would have been funnier had she just cleaned up everything and said "Oops, sorry. I understand if you want to complain to my boss, so feel free." I think I would have done that because pissing off people who are selfish and stupid is lots of fun! I highly recommend it!

[xu82]

In reading about this I read about an incident at Mizzou a few years ago during black history month where cotton balls were found scattered on the lawn of the Black Culture Center. In 2011 a racial slur was spray painted onto a statue outside a dorm hall and 2012 racist flyers were posted in another dorm.

A teacher at the school posted stories of being called the N word while jogging on several occasions and more troublesome being called the N word by faculty members.

Obviously I dont know what is or isnt rue or if there are more examples, etc but this whole thing cant have been built around frustrations of just 3 events and it doesnt seem that to be the case.

This all happened in the same state.... clearly the Governor has to go because it's all his fault. Or, just maybe, we could just find the people who did this stuff (most of which is stupid, rude and hateful - but not illegal) and tell them they are being mean. Don't get me wrong, this is really awful, but it's also just stupid. TOTALLY stupid! Almost any high school has more stuff come up in a single week than what may or may not be true about several years worth of these experiences.

[GoMuskies]

This all happened in the same state.... clearly the Governor has to go

Obama has been President when each of these events occurred. I expect him to resign tomorrow.

[xu82]

What the??


Yeah, no kidding! We currently have a large crop of little jackasses out there who think the world owes them something. BY NO MEANS ALL, but many. I'm not pointing fingers without looking in the mirror, as I had one of my own for many years. Fortunately, that one has now apparently turned the corner. But it seems to be rampant. I mean, I did stupid stuff, but I was ALWAYS afraid of getting caught.

[D-West & PO-Z]

This all happened in the same state.... clearly the Governor has to go because it's all his fault. Or, just maybe, we could just find the people who did this stuff (most of which is stupid, rude and hateful - but not illegal) and tell them they are being mean. Don't get me wrong, this is really awful, but it's also just stupid. TOTALLY stupid! Almost any high school has more stuff come up in a single week than what may or may not be true about several years worth of these experiences.

Ha, I'm glad I didnt go to your high school!

[xu82]

Ha, I'm glad I didnt go to your high school!

This might help.... just know that there are assholes everywhere. I don't like it or condone it, nor can one man control it. Let the assholes face their fates.

There was a kid in my neighborhood growing up who moved to western NY from Texas. We got along fine, until I heard him bragging about going with another group of kids into the city to whack black kids on bikes with 2x4's from a moving car. We obviously split ways, and I told anyone who would listen, but cotton balls in the grass isn't going to get the same outrage from me. I'm NOT condoning it, but it's a sticks and stones kinda deal. You can make fun of the Irish drinking, or arabic upheaval, or anything else that you think might reflect my family. I don't care other than to judge YOU and only you by your actions. That shameful ignorance is on the proverbial YOU, not on us. Put your hands on somebody, and all the rules change.


I might add that my wife's family had at least one cross burned in their front yard. Her grandfather shoed them off with a shotgun, put out the fire and was grateful the damn fools left a lot of good wood behind, which he dragged back to the shed. (He also taught my wife to shoot squirrels from the back porch, but the training didn't just appy to squirrels.)

[D-West & PO-Z]

This might help.... just know that there are assholes everywhere. I don't like it or condone it, nor can one man control it. Let the assholes face their fates.

There was a kid in my neighborhood growing up who moved to western NY from Texas. We got along fine, until I heard him bragging about going with another group of kids into the city to whack black kids on bikes with 2x4's from a moving car. We obviously split ways, and I told anyone who would listen, but cotton balls in the grass isn't going to get the same outrage from me. I'm NOT condoning it, but it's a sticks and stones kinda deal. You can make fun of the Irish drinking, or arabic upheaval, or anything else that you think might reflect my family. I don't care other than to judge YOU and only you by your actions. That shameful ignorance is on the proverbial YOU, not on us. Put your hands on somebody, and all the rules change.


I might add that my wife's family had at least one cross burned in their front yard. Her grandfather shoed them off with a shotgun, put out the fire and was grateful the damn fools left a lot of good wood behind, which he dragged back to the shed. (He also taught my wife to shoot squirrels from the back porch, but the training didn't just appy to squirrels.)

I get you. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Masterofreality]

I jsut read he has an undergrad degree and is pursuing a masters but also runs a not for profit photography company he started to combat human trafficking. Also has worked as a graduate research assistant. Don't know when he started graduate school, could have been a few years after undergrad or could have been right away.

The Hunger Strike kid is the son of a Railroad Executive from Omaha that is worth $20 million and made $8.4 million last year.

Damn those One Percenters!!!

Seriously, I'm not sure whether to give the guy credit for speaking out in support of his beliefs, or for just being a privileged rabble rouser with a guilty conscience that he had to apologize for his affluent status. I guess it depends if there were truly "wrongs" to protest, but I haven't heard of any proof of those "wrongs" yet.

[OH.X.MI]

The Hunger Strike kid is the son of a Railroad Executive from Omaha that is worth $20 million and made $8.4 million last year.

Damn those One Percenters!!!

#Privilege

[blobfan]

What's their reason for firing her?? Are they firing her for knowingly denying someone access to a place they had every right to be, or are they firing her for being too stupid to understand the First Amendment and they're embarrassed to have a professor working there that's so stupid...

Firing a media communications professor for not knowing the first amendment is like firing a Biology prof that teaches creationism as equally valid to evolution. It sounds like the professor just proved herself ignorant of her subject matter in a very public way.

[D-West & PO-Z]

She wasnt fired, I believe she lost privileges in the journalism school or some title or something and is relegated to just communications department or something.

[blobfan]

She wasnt fired, I believe she lost privileges in the journalism school or some title or something and is relegated to just communications department or something.

But the reason for firing her would be gross ignorance of subject matter.

[Pete Delkus]

So much truth here:



https://youtu.be/dbQ-OvfJtX4

[xu82]

So much truth here:



https://youtu.be/dbQ-OvfJtX4

This is worth the time.

Now the media works to get this to spiral further out of control.

[Juice]

So much truth here:



https://youtu.be/dbQ-OvfJtX4

I haven't watched this yet, but I do follow Clay on Twitter. I think he's hitting on a lot of points, but also missing on a lot too.

For instance, much has been made of the Butler kid who did the hunger strike is from a millionaire family. I do agree that his life was probably way easier than much of his fellow students but that doesn't mean he hasn't or still will not face further incidents of racism. Look at the way people talk about our president. He's the leader of our country and people still say racist things about him. James Blake, the tennis player, was tackled in NYC by police more or less for being black. Thabo Sefalosho, a millionaire NBA player, had his leg broken by police. And he was also found not guilty of all charges in relation to that incident. He has since filed a lawsuit against NYPD.

My point is that plenty of wealthy black people still experience racism in this country. But I do agree with Clay and many of you that what is going on Mizzou's campus is bat shit insane. There are a lot of students who are doing things without a full understanding of what they're doing and in relation to what.

[Pete Delkus]

I haven't watched this yet, but I do follow Clay on Twitter. I think he's hitting on a lot of points, but also missing on a lot too.

For instance, much has been made of the Butler kid who did the hunger strike is from a millionaire family. I do agree that his life was probably way easier than much of his fellow students but that doesn't mean he hasn't or still will not face further incidents of racism. Look at the way people talk about our president. He's the leader of our country and people still say racist things about him. James Blake, the tennis player, was tackled in NYC by police more or less for being black. Thabo Sefalosho, a millionaire NBA player, had his leg broken by police. And he was also found not guilty of all charges in relation to that incident. He has since filed a lawsuit against NYPD.

My point is that plenty of wealthy black people still experience racism in this country. But I do agree with Clay and many of you that what is going on Mizzou's campus is bat shit insane. There are a lot of students who are doing things without a full understanding of what they're doing and in relation to what.

A white guy is tackled by accident, and you never hear of it, and it's dismissed as mistaken identity.

James Blake is tackled and of course, it's racism....got it.

[Juice]

A white guy is tackled by accident, and you never hear of it, and it's dismissed as mistaken identity.

James Blake is tackled and of course, it's racism....got it.

Disregard the other examples I cited. And I promise you this happens way more to black people than it does to white people.

[xu82]

Disregard the other examples I cited. And I promise you this happens way more to black people than it does to white people.

I am certain it happens both ways, and racial profiling exists so it's not proportionate. There are REAL instances of very bad stuff happening. I'm just not sure if anything at Mizzou was even mildly interesting, much less nation shaking.

[Juice]

I am certain it happens both ways, and racial profiling exists. There are REAL instances of very bad stuff happening. I'm just not sure if anything at Mizzou was even mildly interesting, much less nation shaking.

No, I agree. I even said that at the end of my post. I was simply disagreeing with Clay Travis and others on the board that money somehow makes a black person immune from racism.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I haven't watched this yet, but I do follow Clay on Twitter. I think he's hitting on a lot of points, but also missing on a lot too.

For instance, much has been made of the Butler kid who did the hunger strike is from a millionaire family. I do agree that his life was probably way easier than much of his fellow students but that doesn't mean he hasn't or still will not face further incidents of racism. Look at the way people talk about our president. He's the leader of our country and people still say racist things about him. James Blake, the tennis player, was tackled in NYC by police more or less for being black. Thabo Sefalosho, a millionaire NBA player, had his leg broken by police. And he was also found not guilty of all charges in relation to that incident. He has since filed a lawsuit against NYPD.

My point is that plenty of wealthy black people still experience racism in this country. But I do agree with Clay and many of you that what is going on Mizzou's campus is bat shit insane. There are a lot of students who are doing things without a full understanding of what they're doing and in relation to what.

Yeah I literally dont have any idea what the Butler kd being from a wealthy family has to do with anything? :headscratch:

Because his family has a lot of money its impossible for him to experience racism? He isnt allowed to speak out against things he feels are unjust (real or perceived)?

[xu82]

No, I agree. I even said that at the end of my post. I was simply disagreeing with Clay Travis and others on the board that money somehow makes a black person immune from racism.

I'm with you, and I added the "not proportionate" part above. There is bad stuff, let's focus on that and not "mean" stuff from dumbasses.

[Juice]

Yeah I literally dont have any idea what the Butler kd being from a wealthy family has to do with anything? :headscratch:

Because his family has a lot of money its impossible for him to experience racism? He isnt allowed to speak out against things he feels are unjust (real or perceived)?

Yeah, I guess I'm taking the "strong" stand in saying that I think the protesting students have some good points but have handled a lot of this poorly and that Clay Travis and like minded people have made some good points but are also saying some irrelevant and stupid stuff.

That being said, I don't have any of the answers to this situation so I acknowledge my own useless and ignorance especially because I'm a straight, white, Christian male so I'll literally never be the minority in my lifetime.

[xu82]

Yeah I literally dont have any idea what the Butler kd being from a wealthy family has to do with anything? :headscratch:

Because his family has a lot of money its impossible for him to experience racism? He isnt allowed to speak out against things he feels are unjust (real or perceived)?

He's a lucky MF'er. Did you watch the Clay Travis podcast? If you're going to fight his case, I want you to also also spend equal time supporting me (having been a victim of age discrimination), my wife for racial discrimination (though she's not African American), my son (who didn't get into his first college of choice because he refused to check a block indicating something other than Caucasian - read that one again!), and every other cause. Life is not fair and people can be mean. Get over it, it doesn't give you the excuse to threaten people to gain an advantage. And that's exactly what they did! They wanted power and jobs over what... two utterances of the N-word and a poop swastika? And the President was supposed to have made that all better. Not buying that poop.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yeah, I guess I'm taking the "strong" stand in saying that I think the protesting students have some good points but have handled a lot of this poorly and that Clay Travis and like minded people have made some good points but are also saying some irrelevant and stupid stuff.

That being said, I don't have any of the answers to this situation so I acknowledge my own useless and ignorance especially because I'm a straight, white, Christian male so I'll literally never be the minority in my lifetime.

Yeah my thoughts as well.

[xu82]

Yeah, I guess I'm taking the "strong" stand in saying that I think the protesting students have some good points but have handled a lot of this poorly and that Clay Travis and like minded people have made some good points but are also saying some irrelevant and stupid stuff.

That being said, I don't have any of the answers to this situation so I acknowledge my own useless and ignorance especially because I'm a straight, white, Christian male so I'll literally never be the minority in my lifetime.

I'm with you there, but it doesn't mean WE don't have rights. I want what's fair for EVERYONE, but I don't take to bullying from anyone. A guy who interviews for my son's first chioce college told me if he had checked that "non-caucassion" box he was a no-question-first-ballot-entry. I call bullshit there.

[D-West & PO-Z]

He's a lucky MF'er. Did you watch the Clay Travis podcast? If you're going to fight his case, I want you to also also spend equal time supporting me (having been a victim of age discrimination), my wife for racial discrimination (though she's not African American), my son (who didn't get into his first college of choice because he refused to check a block indicating something other than Caucasian - read that one again!), and every other cause. Life is not fair and people can be mean. Get over it, it doesn't give you the excuse to threaten people to gain an advantage. And that's exactly what they did! They wanted power and jobs over what... two utterances of the N-word and a poop swastika? And the President was supposed to have made that all better. Not buying that poop.

Agreeing with the protesters or not they did nothing wrong. They have every right to make whatever ridiculous or not ridiculous demands they want. Again if you have a problem with results that came from their demands blame the school leaders. People in this country have a right to protest, boycott, yell and scream about whatever they want that pisses them off. It is just so strange to me that people are trying to blame them for the president's resigning. If he didnt do anything wrong and the protesters are so ridiculous then the board shouldnt have forced the president out. Where is the outrage and name calling and disgust with the board members of Mizzou?

You, your wife, and your son would have had every right to protest and boycott about your situations, you chose not to, but dont be mad at Butler that he did exercise that right. You may think he shouldnt have and he should just get over it it but that doesnt make you right. Your entitled to you opinion, hes entitled to his and you can each decide how to deal with real or perceived injustices to yourselves.

[xu82]

Agreeing with the protesters or not they did nothing wrong. They have every right to make whatever ridiculous or not ridiculous demands they want. Again if you have a problem with results that came from their demands blame the school leaders. People in this country have a right to protest, boycott, yell and scream about whatever they want that pisses them off. It is just so strange to me that people are trying to blame them for the president's resigning. If he didnt do anything wrong and the protesters are so ridiculous then the board shouldnt have forced the president out. Where is the outrage and name calling and disgust with the board members of Mizzou?

You, your wife, and your son would have had every right to protest and boycott about your situations, you chose not to, but dont be mad at Butler that he did exercise that right. You may think he shouldnt have and he should just get over it it but that doesnt make you right. Your entitled to you opinion, hes entitled to his and you can each decide how to deal with real or perceived injustices to yourselves.

The kids had the right, that's fine. Adults learn and move on, and legal action should be reserved for the most egregious acts. The bad stuff makes you stronger and wiser. Coddled kids rarely thrive. Those kids just wanted unconstitutional and unreasonable demands from the school. They're ignorant kids (and faculty, embarrassingly). Yes, I said earlier the school screwed up badly. If more facts come out, I'll gladly learn and retract. I actually HOPE something substantial comes up - because on the face this is too stupid to believe! I don't care if children want to have a temper tantrum. Adults stand up and teach so they can become productive member of society. There's something terribly wrong with our society if we give in to them over a million bucks and a football game.

EDIT: For clarity, I'm far more upset with the school than the kids. They had an opportunity to draw the line and set things straight. They caved and took the route of least resistence, and those kids will suffer long-term as a result. (Unless we sink into the abyss too quickly to see a long-term).

[Xville]

This whole thing is becoming one big joke as I knew that it would. Mizzou acted hastily, (and I hate to bring it up again but I'm going to anyways) just like Xavier did with Dez.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/is-the-entire-mizzou-protest-based-on-lies-111115

No evidence anywhere...and even if there were, people calling you bad names does not a president losing his job make. I'm so freaking disgusted by all of this and embarrassed by the actions of the administrators of the school for caving in mainly because of a football game.

Some tidbits from the article:

If Mizzou is such a racist and unsafe place, why did Butler stay there for 8 years?

If Mizzou is such a racist and unsafe place, how did it elect a black, gay student body president?

That same student body president openly lied about the kkk being on campus, this is the same kid who said that allegedly someone screamed racial slurs at him. Obviously he has no problem lying, so how do we know he didn't lie about that instance as well?

Furthermore, the fact that Butler comes from a rich family in and of itself is not the issue. The issue is that he demanded that the President admit his "white privilege" .....this kid has come from more privilege than many of us will ever see.

[Juice]

This whole thing is becoming one big joke as I knew that it would. Mizzou acted hastily, (and I hate to bring it up again but I'm going to anyways) just like Xavier did with Dez.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/is-the-entire-mizzou-protest-based-on-lies-111115

No evidence anywhere...and even if there were, people calling you bad names does not a president losing his job make. I'm so freaking disgusted by all of this and embarrassed by the actions of the administrators of the school for caving in mainly because of a football game.

Oh and a couple of questions to ponder:

If Mizzou is such a racist and unsafe place, why did Butler stay there for 8 years?

If Mizzou is such a racist and unsafe place, how did it elect a black, gay student body president?

That same student body president openly lied about the kkk being on campus, this is the same kid who said that allegedly someone screamed racial slurs at him. Obviously he has no problem lying, so how do we know he didn't lie about that instance as well?

I have some friends who were involved with the student government stuff at Miami, and no one pays attention to that shit and no one votes. It's all about who has more friends in fraternities, sororities, etc.

[Xville]

Yeah, I guess I'm taking the "strong" stand in saying that I think the protesting students have some good points but have handled a lot of this poorly and that Clay Travis and like minded people have made some good points but are also saying some irrelevant and stupid stuff.

That being said, I don't have any of the answers to this situation so I acknowledge my own useless and ignorance especially because I'm a straight, white, Christian male so I'll literally never be the minority in my lifetime.

Based on what? I haven't seen any facts of what they said occurred actually happened. Have you?

[Xville]

I have some friends who were involved with the student government stuff at Miami, and no one pays attention to that shit and no one votes. It's all about who has more friends in fraternities, sororities, etc.

So a gay black man has a lot of friends in the fraternities and the sororities at Mizzou, and Mizzou is a huge greek life campus by the way. That says something to me.....especially when a campus also supported Michael Sam, another gay black man.

[Juice]

So a gay black man has a lot of friends in the fraternities and the sororities at Mizzou, and Mizzou is a huge greek life campus by the way. That says something to me.....especially when a campus also supported Michael Sam, another gay black man.

The campus didn't know, only the team did. He came out in the spring. And what is your evidence of support? That they simply didn't lynch him or vandalize his house? It's really easy to support the SEC defensive player of the year when your team is East division champs.

[Juice]

Here is a police report on the poop swastika: https://twitter.com/WesleyLowery/status/664806657050865664

[Xville]

The campus didn't know, only the team did. He came out in the spring. And what is your evidence of support? That they simply didn't lynch him or vandalize his house? It's really easy to support the SEC defensive player of the year when your team is East division champs.

The same evidence used by the people who said they experienced having racial slurs hurled against them.

Oh but also because sam said a couple of days ago he never experienced racial discrimination while at school

[STL_XUfan]

Oh but also because sam said a couple of days ago he never experienced racial discrimination while at school

As to that point, I think this is an interesting take from Kim English (copied from his Twitter feed on Nov. 7)

"Oppression at my alma mater and in the state of my alma mater occurred LONG before the tenure of this System President.

If U were black at my alma mater, and ur name was not Maclin, Denmon, Pressey, English, Weatherspoon, Carroll, etc. You didn't feel welcome

My teammates and I supported Black Greek probates, black functions i.e., poetry slams, cookouts as much as we could. Alphas, Qs, aka's

We did it to feel normal. To feel connected with our peers. We knew that our experience walking into Harpos, Willies was diff than theirs."

[D-West & PO-Z]

As to that point, I think this is an interesting take from Kim English (copied from his Twitter feed on Nov. 7)

"Oppression at my alma mater and in the state of my alma mater occurred LONG before the tenure of this System President.

If U were black at my alma mater, and ur name was not Maclin, Denmon, Pressey, English, Weatherspoon, Carroll, etc. You didn't feel welcome

My teammates and I supported Black Greek probates, black functions i.e., poetry slams, cookouts as much as we could. Alphas, Qs, aka's

We did it to feel normal. To feel connected with our peers. We knew that our experience walking into Harpos, Willies was diff than theirs."[/SIZE]

Yeah pretty sure you cant compare the SEC defensive player of the year's experience on campus to those of the average person.

Of course no one is talking shit or threatening a football player.

[Juice]

Yeah pretty sure you cant compare the SEC defensive player of the year's experience on campus to those of the average person.

Of course no one is talking shit or threatening a football player.

Jeff PEarlman wrote a blog about this. Here is his main point:


Back in the 1960s, when southern high schools were beginning to integrate, there was a common expression used to describe gradual white acceptance—and ultimate embracing—of black faces on their football rosters: “Just give LeRoy the ball.”

Translation: Yeah, technically it sucks. But LeRoy is a big ol’ nigger who run s a 4.4 40 and can get us an extra three or four wins. So let’s smile, shut up and hand him the football. And as long as he doesn’t date our daughters or think himself a real part of our community, all should be OK.

http://www.jeffpearlman.com/when-leroy-takes-back-the-ball/

[Masterofreality]

Here is a police report on the poop swastika: https://twitter.com/WesleyLowery/status/664806657050865664

I would call that the "SwastiKa-Ka

[Juice]

I would call that the "SwastiKa-Ka

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zXDo4dL7SU

[Juice]

Mizzou released a picture of the poop swastik. I honestly probably wouldn't have even noticed it was a swastika but been more alarmed that someone had smeared shit on a wall.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/the-turnstile/missouri-releases-photo-of-feces-smeared-swastika--photo-221817717.html

[xu82]

Mizzou released a picture of the poop swastik. I honestly probably wouldn't have even noticed it was a swastika but been more alarmed that someone had smeared shit on a wall.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/the-turnstile/missouri-releases-photo-of-feces-smeared-swastika--photo-221817717.html

No kidding! I mean, when you see that do you first think "oh, this is the art work of a well balanced racist", or "what the hell is wrong with someone to make them do crazy shit like that?"

[muskiefan82]

I would call that the "SwastiKa-Ka

It shouldn't be, but man that's funny.

[Xville]

No kidding! I mean, when you see that do you first think "oh, this is the art work of a well balanced racist", or "what the hell is wrong with someone to make them do crazy shit like that?"
True..whoever did that has way more issues than being racist. I'd go for more of criminally insane.

[Juice]

And now Georgetown athletes are protesting Nike. Never mind the fact that they're still wearing the free Nike stuff given to them.

http://georgetownvoice.com/2015/11/11/student-athletes-cover-up-nike-logo-on-university-provided-equipment/

It's time to blow up college campuses and start over.

[X-band '01]

Or they just cover up the swoosh on their equipment.

It does beg the question - are all of their shoes and uniforms made overseas, or does Nike even have any production that is US-based?