Streetcar milestone set for Friday

[sirthought]

I understand why this was such a hotly debated move in Cincinnati but I, for one, am glad phase 1 of the streetcar is closer to completion. There is still a lot that has to happen to prove it was the right action, but evidence is showing it already being the correct step. The city just reported a budget surplus. Surely this is a positive sign that the tax base is growing and that money will be put to some use to help businesses and residents.

Operation won't begin for another year, but we've already seen an extreme turn around in our urban core. Just in anticipation of it's arrival, more apartments and condos are in demand, development is up, and some key business is moving into the city versus away from it.

People want better transportation amenities downtown and Over the Rhine and they're excited it's coming.

Personally, I was not in favor of this streetcar plan at the beginning. I wish for a full-on subway and regional light rail. Express rail to other metro areas! If you need to commit so much money to something, why not scale for greater regional impact.

But once the plan was in place, voters spoke their mind about the project—multiple times—I knew it was silly to fight it and the nay sayers needed to get onboard and make this thing work.

The fact that the effort, originally meant for downtown, OTR, and Clifton, was going to serve the two largest areas of employment in the region, made this plan work for me. Public transit with trains is essential, so let's get started somewhere it will make a change by reducing some traffic issues and allow more folks to live in that area with convenience.

From the Enquirer. http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/10/13/streetcar-milestone-set-friday/73882086/


Cincinnati's streetcar project is expected to reach a major milestone this week when the final piece of rail is welded into Downtown streets.

The 3.6-mile track through Downtown and Over-the-Rhine is scheduled to be completed on Friday afternoon, project leader John Deatrick said Tuesday. Crews plan to weld the last piece of rail at Second and Main streets near Great American Ball Park. leaving only a handful of smaller projects before the entire construction phase is completed.


Barring unexpected problems, construction will come in on time and on budget after nearly 2½ years of work – keeping the $148 million streetcar on track to open to passengers in September 2016. That's no small task after streetcar project leaders faced several obstacles: hostile political debates, intense media scrutiny, a poorly planned budget by ex-Mayor Mark Mallory's administration and brutal winter weather.

So many on this board said OTR and downtown would not change. That the Washington Park project was a mistake. That no one wants to be downtown. Evidence is proving you wrong.

And then we heard arguments that the development would be happening with or without the streetcar. We're still hearing stories on a monthly basis of business owners pushing to be closer to the streetcar line, and how the streetcar is part of their motivation for wanting to build a business in the core. Also, all of the business coming to Over the Rhine: New Restaurants and Bars Join the OTR Crowd (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/entertainment/2015/10/10/new-restaurants-bars-join-crowd-otr/73459574/)


As anyone traveling north on Vine from Downtown can easily see, Over-the-Rhine is the hot spot for new restaurants and bars. And since we last published a round up of new and planned OTR eateries and drinkeries, the pace has only picked up.

Public transportation isn't cheap and likely won't pay for itself, but neither does transportation with automobiles and planes. Roads, highways, airports are all highly subsidized. Trains will at least help to reduce traffic and pollution, save some space, and invigorate some areas that were in need of a jolt.

I promote some events on Fountain Square, Washington Park, and OTR in the warmer months. These events, mostly free to attend, have had a major economic impact over the long term. This city needs simple and effective transportation to make a steady stream of events easy to want to participate in. It raises our quality of life and attracts an educated workforce, leading to more companies and jobs.

Let's keep working for better transit, build up our urban neighborhoods, reduce crime, raise our economy, and make Cincinnati a community we all enjoy living in.

This Friday at 2 p.m. please join your neighbors at the corner of Main and 2nd Street near Crave Restaurant at The Banks to commemorate the finishing of the first track.

[bobbiemcgee]

I do love the Light Rail in Denver. 88k daily riders and you'll be able to hop on it inside the Airport starting next year, which should double the ridership overnight.

[XU 87]

I understand why this was such a hotly debated move in Cincinnati but I, for one, am glad phase 1 of the streetcar is closer to completion. There is still a lot that has to happen to prove it was the right action, but evidence is showing it already being the correct step. The city just reported a budget surplus. Surely this is a positive sign that the tax base is growing and that money will be put to some use to help businesses and residents.



And then we heard arguments that the development would be happening with or without the streetcar. We're still hearing stories on a monthly basis of business owners pushing to be closer to the streetcar line, and how the streetcar is part of their motivation for wanting to build a business in the core. Also, all of the business coming to Over the Rhine: New Restaurants and Bars Join the OTR Crowd (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/entertainment/2015/10/10/new-restaurants-bars-join-crowd-otr/73459574/)





Are you claiming that the streetcar has something to do with the city budget surplus?

OTR got going long before the streetcar. In the article you cited, there is no mention of those businesses coming to OTR because of the streetcar.

[chico]

OTR got going long before the streetcar. In the article you cited, there is no mention of those businesses coming to OTR because of the streetcar.

That was my recollection of the discussion on here. It wasn't that people didn't think OTR was going to come back - like 87 said, it's been on the way back for a while. It's the thought that the streetcar had something to do with the development in OTR that people took issue with. I'm sure the businesses like to have the streetcar but I think you'll be hard pressed to find one where the streetcar was the primary reason to locate there. My guess is that if there was no streetcar you'd still see the development you're seeing.

[XU 87]

That was my recollection of the discussion on here. It wasn't that people didn't think OTR was going to come back - like 87 said, it's been on the way back for a while. It's the thought that the streetcar had something to do with the development in OTR that people took issue with. I'm sure the businesses like to have the streetcar but I think you'll be hard pressed to find one where the streetcar was the primary reason to locate there. My guess is that if there was no streetcar you'd still see the development you're seeing.

It wasn't even finalized that the streetcar would be built until the end of 2013. We have a mayor who ran against the streetcar. In fact, the only reason we have the streetcar is because two councilmen switched their positions on the streetcar after the election.

I was involved in some extensive litigation over a large piece of property in OTR that is right on the streetcar line. The property was purchased in late 2008. There was absolutely no mention whatsoever in the buyer's due diligence report prior to purchase about the streetcar being built.

[sirthought]

I speak with newer businesses in Over the Rhine every week. You'd be hard pressed to find any business in that whole area that wouldn't cite the streetcar as a key reason for wanting to be there. Those restaurants aren't moving to OTR because of the cheap rents. Articles in the Business Courier frequently list the streetcar as part of the whole marketplace that these business owners are interested in because it helps their workforce and their customers. It's pushing growth. Executives at G.E. said it was a key part of the reasons that attracted them to move downtown.

No business owner would choose a location based on one sole thing, but this amenity is attracting significant activity. Just the promise of a streetcar is not sole thing turning the neighborhood around. But it's really a rallying point for so many other reasons to want to rebuild that area when it was neglected for too long.

And yes, I am implying that the streetcar is a factor of major development, residential growth, and therefore increased tax revenue. It's no coincidence. Development has happened long before 2013 that was in anticipation of the streetcar being built.

Flynn and Mann switched their positions because Cranley is an idiot and they didn't want to painted with the same brush. It was wrong to hold up the project at that stage in the first place. Plus, hundreds of residents, business owners, and concerned individuals were lobbying them not to try to end it further. There would have been needless lawsuits. It's not what people voting on the streetcar wanted. But that's all old news. The final weld on phase one happens Friday.

[_LH]

I speak with newer businesses in Over the Rhine every week. You'd be hard pressed to find any business in that whole area that wouldn't cite the streetcar as a key reason for wanting to be there. Those restaurants aren't moving to OTR because of the cheap rents. Articles in the Business Courier frequently list the streetcar as part of the whole marketplace that these business owners are interested in because it helps their workforce and their customers. It's pushing growth. Executives at G.E. said it was a key part of the reasons that attracted them to move downtown.

No business owner would choose a location based on one sole thing, but this amenity is attracting significant activity. Just the promise of a streetcar is not sole thing turning the neighborhood around. But it's really a rallying point for so many other reasons to want to rebuild that area when it was neglected for too long.

And yes, I am implying that the streetcar is a factor of major development, residential growth, and therefore increased tax revenue. It's no coincidence. Development has happened long before 2013 that was in anticipation of the streetcar being built.

Flynn and Mann switched their positions because Cranley is an idiot and they didn't want to painted with the same brush. It was wrong to hold up the project at that stage in the first place. Plus, hundreds of residents, business owners, and concerned individuals were lobbying them not to try to end it further. There would have been needless lawsuits. It's not what people voting on the streetcar wanted. But that's all old news. The final weld on phase one happens Friday.

Other than maybe one waffle stand, the streetcar did not spur any of the development in OTR that has taken place over the past 5 years or the next 5 years.

Also, just so you know. I am willing to bet that a third to half of the existing new restaurants are gone within 5 years. People love new places but it wears off.

[fellahmuskie]

Other than maybe one waffle stand, the streetcar did not spur any of the development in OTR that has taken place over the past 5 years or the next 5 years.

Also, just so you know. I am willing to bet that a third to half of the existing new restaurants are gone within 5 years. People love new places but it wears off.

I'll bet a third of the restaurants are gone within 5 years, too. That's what happens to restaurants. I'd also bet there will be twice as many to replace them.

[_LH]

I'll bet a third of the restaurants are gone within 5 years, too. That's what happens to restaurants. I'd also bet there will be twice as many to replace them.

Maybe and then they will also close. There are simply not enough people living in Cincinnati to sustain all of these "entertainment pockets" at the same time. One pops up and slowly kills off an older one and so on and so on.

[Xville]

Maybe and then they will also close. There are simply not enough people living in Cincinnati to sustain all of these "entertainment pockets" at the same time. One pops up and slowly kills off an older one and so on and so on.

true story....that's great that over the rhine "is revitalized." Even though it is still a sketchy part of town....newsflash just because you pretty something up doesn't mean that the people who are shooting each other just leave.

Anyways...it is nice that over the rhine is the new cool place to hang out and eat and drink etc, but now Mt. Adams is basically a ghost town....all that is happened is that some money got moved around from one area of the city to the other.

[Juice]

true story....that's great that over the rhine "is revitalized." Even though it is still a sketchy part of town....newsflash just because you pretty something up doesn't mean that the people who are shooting each other just leave.

Anyways...it is nice that over the rhine is the new cool place to hang out and eat and drink etc, but now Mt. Adams is basically a ghost town....all that is happened is that some money got moved around from one area of the city to the other.

At first a lot of young African-Americans started hanging out in Mt. Adams but the residents didn't take too kindly to that "type" up there and requested an increased police presence. Now no one is up there.

So when does the street car get expanded up the hill to Mt. Adams to revitalize that area?

[Xville]

At first a lot of young African-Americans started hanging out in Mt. Adams but the residents didn't take too kindly to that "type" up there and requested an increased police presence. Now no one is up there.

So when does the street car get expanded up the hill to Mt. Adams to revitalize that area?

As soon as some politicians vow to "clean up the neighborhood." Then Mt. Adams will be the new hotness, and Over the Rhine can go back to the crime-ridden section of the city it is meant to be.

[fellahmuskie]

As soon as some politicians vow to "clean up the neighborhood." Then Mt. Adams will be the new hotness, and Over the Rhine can go back to the crime-ridden section of the city it is meant to be.

Based on the patterns I see in Cincy and elsewhere around the country, white middle-class people are moving back into the city. Poverty will gradually be pushed out as people fill in neighborhoods like OTR and Walnut Hills. It's great for somebody like me, but it's gonna suck for poor people who will be further from transportation and services. When P&G and Kroger invest hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars in this stuff, I don't see it being a flash in the pan. Hell, Cincinnati's population has grown in the last few years for the first time since like 1950.

[Xville]

Based on the patterns I see in Cincy and elsewhere around the country, white middle-class people are moving back into the city. Poverty will gradually be pushed out as people fill in neighborhoods like OTR and Walnut Hills. It's great for somebody like me, but it's gonna suck for poor people who will be further from transportation and services. When P&G and Kroger invest hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars in this stuff, I don't see it being a flash in the pan. Hell, Cincinnati's population has grown in the last few years for the first time since like 1950.

I'll believe that when I see it. Where is the poverty going to go? Mt. Adams? Over the Rhine being revitalized is really nice for the city in that its a historic area being reborn, but in reality its just lipstick on a pig because all thats happened is some money has been moved around and crimes will still exist. It's a good start but things need to be done to take care of the actual issues that led to over the rhine becoming the cesspool that it was. Otherwise, the cesspool and poverty will just move to a different area of town as you stated.

[fellahmuskie]

I think I pretty much agree with you 100% about poverty and crime. I think one positive for Cincinnati is that more educated young people are starting to stick around, but overall, little is being done to address the issues you point out.

In the next 10 years, I would see things getting worse in some West Side neighborhoods, maybe up in South Fairmont/English Woods/Millvale. I don't know Cincinnati that well yet, but I do expect that higher rents will start to displace people in OTR and Walnut Hills.

[chico]

The people that are investing in OTR lead me to believe that this is not some flash in the pan. This is something that has been building for a while and I really don't see it stopping. Try buying any properly between Central and Liberty - it's near impossible. And OTR is more than just entertainment - it's business and housing. People are moving downtown - there's a reason why many office buildings (Post & Times Star, 580, American Building to name a few) have gone to apartments. As for the current residents, they're likely being pushed north and west. But several of those properties sat vacant for quite a while.

I'm sure people will "re-discover" Mt. Adams when OTR gets a little too crowded, but I don't think anyone but the bar owners in Mt. Adams are hurting, and the bar scene is always cyclical. As long as the views don't magically disappear, property values in Mt. Adams will be just fine.

[fellahmuskie]

Really? Go down to the Banks right now and see how many empty restaurants there are. They are on the streetcar line too, and have the stadiums also. Nobody is jumping to fill in Toby Keith nor Johnny Rockets...they've been empty awhile now.

Once GE, the new apartments, hotel and streetcar are down there, I think those spots will fill up very quickly. There just aren't enough people down there outside of baseball and football games right now, but that is going to change very soon.

[Juice]

West side. I don't know if you can do it, but if you look at police and fire run numbers, they have increased incredibly on the West Side of town. District 2 is basically a war zone now. Engine 35 (or is it 24? I have forgotten to be honest) up in upper Price Hill are listed as like the 14th busiest fire companies in the nation. OTR has been gentrified, and the people pushed out have gone west.

Yup. Price Hill, Westwood, and Madison are war zones now. The crime simply moves. Problems aren't being solved, they are just being moved around and the only people benefiting are those at 3CDC.

[sirthought]

Response to some of the comments here:

- Crime happens and we deal with it no matter where it is. I never said it ended completely or anything about displacement not being evident. Quarterly police reports show crime has been greatly reduced in downtown and OTR. The rise in population and development has to be seen as a major factor in this. (And I feel the promise of the streetcar contributed to that.) But crime has trended down there for the past decade, so it could be lots of factors.

News stories on shootings are covered today with such sensationalism, any incident is considerably amplified. Overall crime is down here. Let's be glad such a key historic neighborhood in all of America is getting a better trend in that regard.

- _LH You are flat out wrong about the streetcar not spurring on development. Talk to Bobby Maly at Model Group about all of their investment in and around Findlay Market ($19million project in just one block). Talk to Paul Kitzmiller at CORE Resources (tens of projects there in the past 5 years—so busy they moved their HQ from suburbs to OTR). Or HGC Construction (building projects all over there like Taft Ale House). Good lord, they have been working nonstop and most of these projects wouldn't have had so much consideration had it not been for the streetcar coming. We'll see if the final impact really pans out.

And major business leaders setting up business accelerators like the Brandery and Cintrifuse could have picked lots of Cincinnati neighborhoods to set up their HQ. They chose a neighborhood that does have a dangerous reputation largely because it was in line to start having the sort of amenities that young tech entrepreneurs are looking for today — walkable neighborhoods, diverse population, access to public transportation.

I agree restaurants will come and go. It's one of the dumbest businesses to get into because it's so hard to last. But those are businesses that get quick ink now. It was one easy example from that day I posted. But if you speak with Bob Deck at 4 Entertainment Group about where they chose to build bars down there…each new spot is near the streetcar line. Many of the recent (and coming) restaurants are from owners who already have a business elsewhere in Cincinnati. If they wanted to invest in a new place, there are plenty of neighborhoods with real estate available, but OTR is where it's exploding and the streetcar is the key differential.

Plenty of other people setting up shop for design firms, construction, architecture, law, accountants and numerous other endeavors. It's going to be a hugely populated neighborhood compared to what it has been in recent decades.

- Xvile, I'm not worried about Mt. Adams. Why are you? No empty homes up there and still a great location near downtown! The bars and shops have plenty of customers just from who lives there, but that neighborhood was always meant to be more residential than a business hub.

- The streetcar should help business at the Banks, but the whole vibe there is completely different than OTR. It's very generic. They've had some bad luck with who they've picked to go in initially, but it doesn't help that it's so expensive just to set up shop. Kind of hard to build organically.

I am curious if the new hotel will improve convention business and provide a larger customer base seeking entertainment. I see the locals continuing to mostly go there for games and the park, not necessarily eat regularly. This summer I went down Smale Park every week during business daytime hours and it was surprisingly busy, but I don't know if people are dining at the Banks. I never do.



Still excited about this milestone today for the streetcar and looking forward to seeing the first train arive in a month or two.

[OH.X.MI]

Really? Go down to the Banks right now and see how many empty restaurants there are. They are on the streetcar line too, and have the stadiums also. Nobody is jumping to fill in Toby Keith nor Johnny Rockets...they've been empty awhile now.

But at the same time you've got to fight to get into Holy Grail, Tin Roof, and Jefferson Social on a weekend night. Maybe it's just that Toby Keith's and Johnny Rockets, and especially Mahogany's were shity establishments? Not every bar or restaurant is a success. Location plays a huge role, but establishments still have to provide good services.

I think that's the same problem with Mt. Adams. Bars up there haven't adapted to the "in scene." I don't think most young people want to listen to EDM and drink vodka red bull anymore. Of course, that means if the "scene" down at OTR fades away those bars/restaurants might too. Everything is cyclical in that industry.

[D-West & PO-Z]

But at the same time you've got to fight to get into Holy Grail, Tin Roof, and Jefferson Social on a weekend night. Maybe it's just that Toby Keith's and Johnny Rockets, and especially Mahogany's were shity establishments? Not every bar or restaurant is a success. Location plays a huge role, but establishments still have to provide good services.

I think that's the same problem with Mt. Adams. Bars up there haven't adapted to the "in scene." I don't think most young people want to listen to EDM and drink vodka red bull anymore. Of course, that means if the "scene" down at OTR fades away those bars/restaurants might too. Everything is cyclical in that industry.

I lived at the Banks for 2 years and I can tell you Johnny Rockets was a disaster for no other reason than it had some of the worst service I've ever experienced coupled with terribly expensive food.

In the beginning they had breakfast on weekends which was awesome and I went to then they cancelled it and I went 2 other times and refused to ever go back. Food was ok, prices ridiculous, slow and horrible service. It had a full bar too so if it was run well it could have done a lot better. If the owner of that place blames anyone besides himself for the failure he's delusional. Everyone knew it was only a matter of time untol that place closed.

In two years I went to Toby Keith once and it was completely mediocre. Not surprised it didnt last. Tin Roof I loved most of the time. I ate there tons of times, food was good, service was good, and it was fun most weekends unless the band was a dud or not my type.

[D-West & PO-Z]

At this point in time the Banks is more of a destination for games and events that fills up the places, and bars at night. OTR really is a dinner destination (and bars obviously too) but there is some great food in OTR that brings people there solely for that.

[Juice]

I lived at the Banks for 2 years and I can tell you Johnny Rockets was a disaster for no other reason than it had some of the worst service I've ever experienced coupled with terribly expensive food.

In the beginning they had breakfast on weekends which was awesome and I went to then they cancelled it and I went 2 other times and refused to ever go back. Food was ok, prices ridiculous, slow and horrible service. It had a full bar too so if it was run well it could have done a lot better. If the owner of that place blames anyone besides himself for the failure he's delusional. Everyone knew it was only a matter of time untol that place closed.

In two years I went to Toby Keith once and it was completely mediocre. Not surprised it didnt last. Tin Roof I loved most of the time. I ate there tons of times, food was good, service was good, and it was fun most weekends unless the band was a dud or not my type.

Toby Keith's was just way too damn big to survive.

[_LH]

Response to some of the comments here:

- Crime happens and we deal with it no matter where it is. I never said it ended completely or anything about displacement not being evident. Quarterly police reports show crime has been greatly reduced in downtown and OTR. The rise in population and development has to be seen as a major factor in this. (And I feel the promise of the streetcar contributed to that.) But crime has trended down there for the past decade, so it could be lots of factors.

News stories on shootings are covered today with such sensationalism, any incident is considerably amplified. Overall crime is down here. Let's be glad such a key historic neighborhood in all of America is getting a better trend in that regard.

- _LH You are flat out wrong about the streetcar not spurring on development. Talk to Bobby Maly at Model Group about all of their investment in and around Findlay Market ($19million project in just one block). Talk to Paul Kitzmiller at CORE Resources (tens of projects there in the past 5 years—so busy they moved their HQ from suburbs to OTR). Or HGC Construction (building projects all over there like Taft Ale House). Good lord, they have been working nonstop and most of these projects wouldn't have had so much consideration had it not been for the streetcar coming. We'll see if the final impact really pans out.

And major business leaders setting up business accelerators like the Brandery and Cintrifuse could have picked lots of Cincinnati neighborhoods to set up their HQ. They chose a neighborhood that does have a dangerous reputation largely because it was in line to start having the sort of amenities that young tech entrepreneurs are looking for today — walkable neighborhoods, diverse population, access to public transportation.

I agree restaurants will come and go. It's one of the dumbest businesses to get into because it's so hard to last. But those are businesses that get quick ink now. It was one easy example from that day I posted. But if you speak with Bob Deck at 4 Entertainment Group about where they chose to build bars down there…each new spot is near the streetcar line. Many of the recent (and coming) restaurants are from owners who already have a business elsewhere in Cincinnati. If they wanted to invest in a new place, there are plenty of neighborhoods with real estate available, but OTR is where it's exploding and the streetcar is the key differential.

Plenty of other people setting up shop for design firms, construction, architecture, law, accountants and numerous other endeavors. It's going to be a hugely populated neighborhood compared to what it has been in recent decades.

- Xvile, I'm not worried about Mt. Adams. Why are you? No empty homes up there and still a great location near downtown! The bars and shops have plenty of customers just from who lives there, but that neighborhood was always meant to be more residential than a business hub.

- The streetcar should help business at the Banks, but the whole vibe there is completely different than OTR. It's very generic. They've had some bad luck with who they've picked to go in initially, but it doesn't help that it's so expensive just to set up shop. Kind of hard to build organically.

I am curious if the new hotel will improve convention business and provide a larger customer base seeking entertainment. I see the locals continuing to mostly go there for games and the park, not necessarily eat regularly. This summer I went down Smale Park every week during business daytime hours and it was surprisingly busy, but I don't know if people are dining at the Banks. I never do.



Still excited about this milestone today for the streetcar and looking forward to seeing the first train arive in a month or two.

No Sir, I am not wrong at all. The delvelopments in OTR, etc. are due mostly to 3CDC's involvement and vision. It was going to happen whether the streetcar was built or not. Your revisionist history is tiresome.

[blobfan]

Of course some of the businesses already invested in OTR are saying how much they love the idea of the streetcar. Anything to increase traffic without them haven't to invest further. But the only ones I believe when they say it was a primary reason are the ones that paid off their favorite council member or mayor to pick the route where they could buy the most property. I'll believe the others are sincere if they agree that businesses on the route should pay extra taxes to help fund subsequent phases. In other words, I won't ever believe it.

[Juice]

Of course some of the businesses already invested in OTR are saying how much they love the idea of the streetcar. Anything to increase traffic without them haven't to invest further. But the only ones I believe when they say it was a primary reason are the ones that paid off their favorite council member or mayor to pick the route where they could buy the most property. I'll believe the others are sincere if they agree that businesses on the route should pay extra taxes to help fund subsequent phases. In other words, I won't ever believe it.

Agreed. Tons of bars and restaurants were going in on Vine and Main St. way before the streetcar was a twinkle in the hipsters' eyes.

[Porkopolis]

I've lived at The Banks for several years now. Mahogany's, Johnny Rockets and Toby Keith's were horribly run businesses with horrible products. No surprise they failed. As others have mentioned, the remaining establishments are doing great. Even on non event nights Yard House, Tin Roof, Holy Grail/Santo Graal, Ruth's Chris and Jefferson Social do decent business. What is really needed is some retail to balance things out. I would love a UDF or something similar.

[xudash]

The major, most attractive cities in Europe have functional mass transit systems. Our major cities here, or at least some of them, have functional mass transit.

Perhaps the Cincinnati system is controversial in how it got done - I haven't followed it that closely - but it's long-term benefit should be strong. Tying OTR to Fountain Square to The Banks would seem to be a very good idea.

[Kahns Krazy]

No Sir, I am not wrong at all. The delvelopments in OTR, etc. are due mostly to 3CDC's involvement and vision. It was going to happen whether the streetcar was built or not. Your revisionist history is tiresome.

I'm so amused that you continue to believe that 3cdc's investment and "vision" just happened to line up with the streetcar line by pure coincidence.

The investment in downtown from the banks through OTR is consistent with plans that have been executed by multiple entities over the last 20 years. The parks, the streetcar, the parking garage, the stadiums, the fountain square project, the casino. All of it works together to produce the current investment in the urban core. You can't exclude one part of it and say everything else would have happened without it.

[Kahns Krazy]

Other than maybe one waffle stand, the streetcar did not spur any of the development in OTR that has taken place over the past 5 years or the next 5 years.

Also, just so you know. I am willing to bet that a third to half of the existing new restaurants are gone within 5 years. People love new places but it wears off.

So you're saying that OTR will beat the national average by a significant amount?

http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/stories/2007-04-16/the-restaurant-failure-mythbusinessweek-business-news-stock-market-and-financial-advice

[_LH]

I'm so amused that you continue to believe that 3cdc's investment and "vision" just happened to line up with the streetcar line by pure coincidence.

The investment in downtown from the banks through OTR is consistent with plans that have been executed by multiple entities over the last 20 years. The parks, the streetcar, the parking garage, the stadiums, the fountain square project, the casino. All of it works together to produce the current investment in the urban core. You can't exclude one part of it and say everything else would have happened without it.

You realize that there is no streetcar there right now right? And if it is never built these new business, etc. aren't going to magically disappear because of it, right?

Stop trying to give credit to the streetcar for anything that has been happening in downtown or OTR in the last decade.

[blobfan]

The major, most attractive cities in Europe have functional mass transit systems. Our major cities here, or at least some of them, have functional mass transit.

Perhaps the Cincinnati system is controversial in how it got done - I haven't followed it that closely - but it's long-term benefit should be strong. Tying OTR to Fountain Square to The Banks would seem to be a very good idea.
I fail to see how the streetcar will contribute to mass transit in Cincy. Clearly you've never tried to take the bus.

[xubrew]

I predict that LH will end up getting banned, again, before this thread fades out.

[Cheesehead]

I predict that LH will end up getting banned, again, before this thread fades out.

pretty safe bet

[RoseyMuskie]

But at the same time you've got to fight to get into Holy Grail, Tin Roof, and Jefferson Social on a weekend night. Maybe it's just that Toby Keith's and Johnny Rockets, and especially Mahogany's were shity establishments? Not every bar or restaurant is a success. Location plays a huge role, but establishments still have to provide good services.

I think that's the same problem with Mt. Adams. Bars up there haven't adapted to the "in scene." I don't think most young people want to listen to EDM and drink vodka red bull anymore. Of course, that means if the "scene" down at OTR fades away those bars/restaurants might too. Everything is cyclical in that industry.

Ask Mynt how it's doing with EDM and young people. I believe you have it flipped.

The Mt. Adams bars were always rap bars, and didn't adapt to EDM. Mt.Adams failed to cater to a demographic with a changing taste.

So now, if you want a club vibe, Mynt is the place. Low key places (excluding Japps), OTR. And if you prefer live music, you're probably at Tin Roof. Subsequently, Mt. Adams became an after thought.

[sirthought]

Here's another firm moving HQ downtown. Story here (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2015/10/exclusive-growing-construction-company-moving.html?ana=e_cinci_rdup&s=newsletter&ed=2015-10-21&u=YhY%2FQfXAMCgNyFrEjw9v%2Bw0e0d9800&t=1445436517).


“There is a whole new demand for talent, and those employees want to live, work and play where the action is,” he said.

Oswald also mentioned the new office will be about a block and a half from the streetcar route.

“There’s an energy that is unlike what the city has ever seen,” Oswald told me.

[xubrew]

The Bengals are having an incredible year!! It's because of the streetcar! It's the best thing for the city since...well...the city itself!!

[muskiefan82]

The Bengals are having an incredible year!! It's because of the streetcar! It's the best thing for the city since...well...the city itself!!

This. The Bengals are clearly receiving Streetcarma. I should probably trademark that word.

[Kahns Krazy]

You realize that there is no streetcar there right now right? And if it is never built these new business, etc. aren't going to magically disappear because of it, right?

Stop trying to give credit to the streetcar for anything that has been happening in downtown or OTR in the last decade.

You realize that there isn't an MLK interchange off I-71 yet, and there have been over 170 properties sold in the area in the last 12 months. Don't give any credit for the increased values in the are to a project that isn't done yet.

Your logic is blindingly stupid.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2015/08/21/inside-the-property-sales-boom-at-mlk.html

[paulxu]

You're way off base. Those 170 properties are people/companies re-locating to be closer to Dana's.

Got nothing to do with the freeway.

[_LH]

You realize that there isn't an MLK interchange off I-71 yet, and there have been over 170 properties sold in the area in the last 12 months. Don't give any credit for the increased values in the are to a project that isn't done yet.

Your logic is blindingly stupid.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2015/08/21/inside-the-property-sales-boom-at-mlk.html

Please.

In your world the streetcar should get credit for everything 3CDC did and everything that has developed downtown since 2005 from the river to OTR.

Reality is, the streetcar does not even exist yet, was very close to never existing just a short time ago and all of these things happened without it.

[94GRAD]

You're way off base. Those 170 properties are people/companies re-locating to be closer to Dana's.

Got nothing to do with the freeway.

Public reps because the man is keeping me down

[Kahns Krazy]

Please.

In your world the streetcar should get credit for everything 3CDC did and everything that has developed downtown since 2005 from the river to OTR.

Reality is, the streetcar does not even exist yet, was very close to never existing just a short time ago and all of these things happened without it.

I have never said that any one initiative should get all or none of the credit. The only one saying such things is you, continuing to insist that the streetcar plan has had entirely zero influence on anything at any time.

I would just like you to explain the statistically unlikely coincidence that 3CDC's work happens to be so concentrated around the streetcar, while ignoring other sections of downtown like Pendleton and the west side of the business district.

[_LH]

I have never said that any one initiative should get all or none of the credit. The only one saying such things is you, continuing to insist that the streetcar plan has had entirely zero influence on anything at any time.

I would just like you to explain the statistically unlikely coincidence that 3CDC's work happens to be so concentrated around the streetcar, while ignoring other sections of downtown like Pendleton and the west side of the business district.

Believe what you want but the non existent streetcar has had very little to no effect on what has been happening in downtown and OTR. To state otherwise is revisionist history and you know it.

[xeus]

Believe what you want but the non existent streetcar has had very little to no effect on what has been happening in downtown and OTR. To state otherwise is revisionist history and you know it.

To refer to the streetcar as "non existent" is silly and disingenuous.

[XUFan09]

To refer to the streetcar as "non existent" is silly and disingenuous.
Those adjectives seem to apply to most things LH says on this board.

[xu82]

Those adjectives seem to apply to most things LH says on this board.

You have to earn those red dots!

[Tu 4 MVP]

Another development, there has been several others recently, was announced today along the street car route. This will only increase property tax revenue.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/10/26/developer-plans-new-townhomes-in-over-the-rhine.html

[_LH]

To refer to the streetcar as "non existent" is silly and disingenuous.

You are probably riding it right now. :rolleyes:

[xubrew]

As the streetcar continues to develop, Xavier's basketball program continues to improve. We went from missing the NIT, to making the NCAA Tournament, to making the Sweet Sixteen. Coincidence?? I think not!! We need the streetcar to connect the entire city. Hell, we need it to stretch as far as Louisville, Indianapolis and Columbus. It's worth the tax dollars!

Streetcar = Development!! Streetcar = A successful Bengals franchise!! Streetcar = Xavier's basketball success!! The streetcar will make Cincinnati into such an awesome city, that people will stop going to Florida for Spring Break, and start coming to Cincinnati to ride the streetcar! Disney World may be in trouble, as Cincinnati surpasses it as one of the nation's top family destinations!! The potential is limitless!!

SAY YES TO THE STREETCAR!!!

[muskiefan82]

As the streetcar continues to develop, Xavier's basketball program continues to improve. We went from missing the NIT, to making the NCAA Tournament, to making the Sweet Sixteen. Coincidence?? I think not!! We need the streetcar to connect the entire city. Hell, we need it to stretch as far as Louisville, Indianapolis and Columbus. It's worth the tax dollars!

Streetcar = Development!! Streetcar = A successful Bengals franchise!! Streetcar = Xavier's basketball success!! The streetcar will make Cincinnati into such an awesome city, that people will stop going to Florida for Spring Break, and start coming to Cincinnati to ride the streetcar! Disney World may be in trouble, as Cincinnati surpasses it as one of the nation's top family destinations!! The potential is limitless!!

SAY YES TO THE STREETCAR!!!


Again. This is StreetCarma. Ignore it, if you dare.

[_LH]

As the streetcar continues to develop, Xavier's basketball program continues to improve. We went from missing the NIT, to making the NCAA Tournament, to making the Sweet Sixteen. Coincidence?? I think not!! We need the streetcar to connect the entire city. Hell, we need it to stretch as far as Louisville, Indianapolis and Columbus. It's worth the tax dollars!

Streetcar = Development!! Streetcar = A successful Bengals franchise!! Streetcar = Xavier's basketball success!! The streetcar will make Cincinnati into such an awesome city, that people will stop going to Florida for Spring Break, and start coming to Cincinnati to ride the streetcar! Disney World may be in trouble, as Cincinnati surpasses it as one of the nation's top family destinations!! The potential is limitless!!

SAY YES TO THE STREETCAR!!!

It's the magic bus you heard tell about.

[Juice]

Everyone on council who voted and approved this god damn thing should go to prison

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/12/09/city-fears-traumatic-streetcar-deficit/77007444/

[Cheesehead]

I have reached my max on articles but saw headline. What a shocker. I really hope this thing works but trollies or buses can do the same thing.

[STL_XUfan]

I have reached my max on articles but saw headline. What a shocker. I really hope this thing works but trollies or buses can do the same thing.

Incognito (or private browsing) mode FTW.

[X-band '01]

I have reached my max on articles but saw headline. What a shocker. I really hope this thing works but trollies or buses can do the same thing.


Incognito (or private browsing) mode FTW.

Either that or just clean out your browsing history and cookies when necessary.

[fellahmuskie]

I think the streetcar will be successful relative to other streetcars around the country. Connecting the Banks to Findlay and rhinegeist is actually pretty cool and I think ridership will be better than people expect. That said, it's a toy for rich people, not a transportation solution. I would have opposed it had I lived here when it was up for debate.

Cincinnati needs real public transportation and I think investing in rail is a terrible idea when we have such a built out road system. I'd be all for a much expanded bus system, but it's going to take a lot of work to convince people to go that direction since the rail people have tunnel vision and most middle-class folks think buses are only for poor people.

[coasterville95]

That's the streetcars real reason to exist - the beer trolley. Stops at Rhinegeist, moerlein malt house, banks, rock bottom, and lots of OTR watering holes.

[bjf123]

Everyone on council who voted and approved this god damn thing should go to prison

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/12/09/city-fears-traumatic-streetcar-deficit/77007444/

Does this really surprise anyone? I predict that by 2020, they will be asking for a sales or personal property tax increase to keep the streetcar running.


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[Juice]

Does this really surprise anyone? I predict that by 2020, they will be asking for a sales or personal property tax increase to keep the streetcar running.


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How about by 2017?

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/12/17/budget-deficit/77415166/

[xubrew]

Xavier is off to what is perhaps their best start ever!!!

THANK YOU STREET CAR!!!

[nuts4xu]

I don't like the financial details of the street car, but I love the idea of such a mode of transportation in this city. I hope it does better than people expect and there is a future phase connecting the suburbs to downtown.

I will ride the thing when I can.

[Juice]

I don't like the financial details of the street car, but I love the idea of such a mode of transportation in this city. I hope it does better than people expect and there is a future phase connecting the suburbs to downtown.

I will ride the thing when I can.

That's my views on it. I like the idea of it. I just don't think it's realistic that the city will be able to pay for it.

[blobfan]

I don't like the financial details of the street car, but I love the idea of such a mode of transportation in this city. I hope it does better than people expect and there is a future phase connecting the suburbs to downtown.

I will ride the thing when I can.
You do realize that once you factor in stops, you can walk the route faster, right? You can drive it faster even during rush hour and you can take a bus from the start to end points that's faster. So it's only good for days when the weather is bad or downtown is really, really crowded. That doesn't sound like a sustainable ridership model to me. So as a mode of transportation, it kind of sucks.

[GoMuskies]

Xavier is off to what is perhaps their best start ever!!!

THANK YOU STREET CAR!!!

These two things are undeniably correlated. Thank all of you in Cincinnati for paying for this to make Xavier's magical season possible!

[muskiefan82]

Xavier is off to what is perhaps their best start ever!!!

THANK YOU STREET CAR!!!


These two things are undeniably correlated. Thank all of you in Cincinnati for paying for this to make Xavier's magical season possible!

As I have said before, X is receiving "Streetkarma"

[Kahns Krazy]

You do realize that once you factor in stops, you can walk the route faster, right? You can drive it faster even during rush hour and you can take a bus from the start to end points that's faster. So it's only good for days when the weather is bad or downtown is really, really crowded. That doesn't sound like a sustainable ridership model to me. So as a mode of transportation, it kind of sucks.

You do realize that once you factor in the truth, this is just wrong, right? The initial speed estimates are 6.7 MPH overall average, which is under a 9 minute mile. Most people don't run that fast over a mile on a closed course in workout clothes, and about 3 times as fast as people normally walk on sidewalks.

The streetcars themselves are capable of traveling up to 45 MPH.

Try sticking to at least half truths when concluding that something that doesn't even exist yet sucks.

[fellahmuskie]

Kahns is completely right. You can criticize the streetcar all you want, but it will be effective and efficient moving people from the Banks to OTR and all points in between.

I thought the Red Bikes would be really stupid when I first heard about them. I ended up getting an annual pass this summer and used it dozens of times. It's so much faster on a bike as opposed to walking. The streetcar will be very similar. I'm confident the ridership numbers for the streetcar will be very impressive and quite likely will exceed projections. People are moving downtown and hotels are being built left and right. Those people will want to get around the city and streetcar will be a really easy and cheap way to do it.

[Porkopolis]

I live at The Banks and will use the streetcar frequently to get to OTR and back. When the weather is nice I often walk the route, but during the winter and hotter parts of summer I will make regular use of the streetcar. My wife walks to work in OTR and we only have one car, so it will also be nice for rainy days or when she has to carry a lot of stuff to work. A lot of our neighbors feel the same. There is already a bigger built in ridership than most opponents realize.

[blobfan]

You do realize that once you factor in the truth, this is just wrong, right? The initial speed estimates are 6.7 MPH overall average, which is under a 9 minute mile. Most people don't run that fast over a mile on a closed course in workout clothes, and about 3 times as fast as people normally walk on sidewalks.

The streetcars themselves are capable of traveling up to 45 MPH.

Try sticking to at least half truths when concluding that something that doesn't even exist yet sucks.
You aren't factoring in stops. Journalist did it a few years back and matched the time. One handicap rider or crowded stop and you can beat it.

I live at The Banks and will use the streetcar frequently to get to OTR and back. When the weather is nice I often walk the route, but during the winter and hotter parts of summer I will make regular use of the streetcar. My wife walks to work in OTR and we only have one car, so it will also be nice for rainy days or when she has to carry a lot of stuff to work. A lot of our neighbors feel the same. There is already a bigger built in ridership than most opponents realize.
That's great. People who already live, work and invest downtown will use the streetcar. How's that a return on the cost is of the project? Or are you going to tell us you only moved downtown because of the streetcar?

[Porkopolis]

That's great. People who already live, work and invest downtown will use the streetcar. How's that a return on the cost is of the project? Or are you going to tell us you only moved downtown because of the streetcar?

People who already live work, and invest on the West Side will use the Viaduct. People who already live, work and invest in Clifton will use the MLK Interchange. How's that a return on the cost of the projects? See how easy this game is? Transportation projects will always benefit the people where they are located the most. It just so happens that the Streetcar is located in the most heavily used area of the region.

[Kahns Krazy]

You aren't factoring in stops. Journalist did it a few years back and matched the time. One handicap rider or crowded stop and you can beat it.


Well, rather than just post unsubstantiated statements as facts, I offer the following with references. Feel free to debunk any of them if you can.

1) The projected 6.7 mph includes not only stops but also an allowance for various extra delays. http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/streetcar/linkservid/17D4E8BF-EE36-4924-94AAFBB630857475/showMeta/0/


2) The "journalist", Barry Horstman, was an accomplished marathon runner on a biased agenda. His unchecked article was later debunked. http://citybeat.com/cincinnati/article-28129-top_10_misrepresentations_of_the_cincinnati_street car_project.html

3) Said journalist is now dead. http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/barry-horstman-veteran-cincinnati-journalist-dead-at-60. Therefore, it would be just as factual for me to argue that walking the streetcar line in the same speed as the streetcar leads directly to premature death.

[Kahns Krazy]

Yes, seriously. Speed is a critical factor when it comes to determining the utilization, which is critical to return on investment. The actual cost number is mildly irrelevant. The important part is what are we getting for it. When a reporter publishes a false article about being able to walk faster than the streetcar and then people repeat it, it deserves to be corrected.

[blobfan]

So Khans can cite me 3 articles on the topic of whether or not the streetcar is a significant advantage over walking but STILL can't give me something showing that a streetcar, independent of other infrastructure investments, is worth the taxpayer money. Even though I've been asking that question for months now, if not years.

[Kahns Krazy]

I know Kahns. I just find it funny. Hell, I could argue about the streetcar and what happens to the entire line if there is an emergency, of any kind, from an EMS run, to a car accident, to an actual fire, and how that would shut the entire damn thing down indefinitely.

Just like there are road closures every day from the exact same thing. Should we stop investing in roads? What a silly argument.

[Kahns Krazy]

So Khans can cite me 3 articles on the topic of whether or not the streetcar is a significant advantage over walking but STILL can't give me something showing that a streetcar, independent of other infrastructure investments, is worth the taxpayer money. Even though I've been asking that question for months now, if not years.

I am not sure what you mean by "independent of other infrastructure investments" means. Do I think that putting a streetcar in the middle of a field with nothing around it is a good idea? No. I have repeatedly cited the studies that show the expected incremental investment and increase in property values that justify the investment and the return, but you will either dismiss them as invalid or simply ignore them again. You are determined to believe what you want to believe, and you are willing to repeat and defend factually inaccurate articles to support your position. There is absolutely no changing your mind.

The streetcar is no more independent of other infrastructure than any other taxpayer funded service. Do you have any articles that show that a police department is worth the taxpayer money?

Services like public safety, public transportation, roads and public health are taxpayer funded services because the return to the city is spread throughout the impacted areas. Will my property values drop if the city cuts law enforcement in half? Probably. Will it be enough to justify the additional spend? How would you even start to prove that.

We all applaud when Xavier continues to invest in the Cintas Center to keep up with amenities in other arenas to continue to attract talent, but we don't see the value of investing in our city to keep up with other cities to continue to attract residents and jobs?

[bjf123]

Are there any articles showing a police dept. is worth the money? Probably not. However, I think everyone will agree that a police dept. is an absolute necessity. Is a streetcar a necessity? I'm going to go with no, especially one that is projected to lose money and will, I have no doubt, be asking for a lot more taxpayer money before 2020.

Is a streetcar a nice addition to the city? Sure, but with the current state of the city's financial, now is not the time to be throwing millions of dollars at such a project.


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[_LH]

The streetcar is not needed and it cost way too much for the few that really, really wanted it.

The city should have stopped and now we are stuck with it. It will continue to lose money and will never deliver on its promises of economic development.

[xu82]

No real position on the streetcar (other than to suspect that it's nice to have but not worth the expense - but I'm guessing). I just have to say I spent time downtown and OTR last weekend and was very pleasantly surprised at how cool it was. I rarely get back and this entire area was a very pleasant surprise.

[Kahns Krazy]

Are there any articles showing a police dept. is worth the money? Probably not. However, I think everyone will agree that a police dept. is an absolute necessity. Is a streetcar a necessity? I'm going to go with no, especially one that is projected to lose money and will, I have no doubt, be asking for a lot more taxpayer money before 2020.

Is a streetcar a nice addition to the city? Sure, but with the current state of the city's financial, now is not the time to be throwing millions of dollars at such a project.


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How do we decide what the right budget for public safety is? This article says that despite spending more per capita than about 85% of cities, our crime rate is in the bottom quintile of the most populated cities. Other cities of similar size spend half of what we do per capita. Why do we fight for years over the return on a $3 million annual cost of the streetcar and nobody questions the efficiency of the $130 million we spend every year on the police department?

Why $130 million? Why not $127 or $133? What return are we getting on that last $3 million?

https://wallethub.com/edu/cities-with-the-best-and-worst-roi-on-police-spending/9565/

[D-West & PO-Z]

No real position on the streetcar (other than to suspect that it's nice to have but not worth the expense - but I'm guessing). I just have to say I spent time downtown and OTR last weekend and was very pleasantly surprised at how cool it was. I rarely get back and this entire area was a very pleasant surprise.

Yeah OTR is awesome. I was there today and picked up some great pretzels (cant remember the name) and some Holtman's doughnuts that were fantastic. Also passed the 16 bit bar for the first time but didnt get a chance to go in, need to soon though, looks awesome.

I miss living downtown.

[Kahns Krazy]

I know you are just trying to be contrarian, but you don't know what you are talking about. A simple EMS run doesn't shut down a whole bus line, doesn't shut down multiple roads, neither does an MVA or a fire. If any of those things happen on the streetcar line, the whole line has to stop. If they do happen, The streetcar can't divert, like pretty much every form of transportation in town can. I'm sorry if you missed that the streetcar is dedicated to one way to go, and if something, Hell,, anything, shuts down that way to go, the line is stopped. What about a water main break? Or repaving the street? Or the Opening Day Parade? Silly argument?

Oh my god. Nobody has ever thought of this. You are so smart. Someone call city hall and tell them to stop the whole thing.

[xu82]

Yeah OTR is awesome. I was there today and picked up some great pretzels (cant remember the name) and some Holtman's doughnuts that were fantastic. Also passed the 16 bit bar for the first time but didnt get a chance to go in, need to soon though, looks awesome.

I miss living downtown.

We finished the night at Rhinegeist with corn hole and brews. Never got to ping pong. Thank God for Uber! Check it out if you haven't been there.

[bjf123]

How do we decide what the right budget for public safety is? This article says that despite spending more per capita than about 85% of cities, our crime rate is in the bottom quintile of the most populated cities. Other cities of similar size spend half of what we do per capita. Why do we fight for years over the return on a $3 million annual cost of the streetcar and nobody questions the efficiency of the $130 million we spend every year on the police department?

Why $130 million? Why not $127 or $133? What return are we getting on that last $3 million?

https://wallethub.com/edu/cities-with-the-best-and-worst-roi-on-police-spending/9565/

Nowhere did I say the amount of money being spent on police and fire are the proper amounts. I'm just saying that no one would argue that we shouldn't spend anything for them. For example, do I think public sector employees should contribute more towards their benefits? Yes, I don't think most of them have a clue how much private sector employees pay for their benefits, which probably aren't as good as those in the public sector.

Also, it will interesting to see how often the entire streetcar line does get shut down like PMThor says. It's going to happen, hopefully not too often, but it will happen. Of course, I can hear the streetcar proponents then calling for laying additional tracks so the system can divert to an open road. Let's spend even more money we don't have!


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[Kahns Krazy]

I know you are trying to be funny, but go and Google Opening Day parade and the streetcar, they didn't think of that, they didn't think of any of these concerns expressed. I'm just pointing out the short sighted nature of the support behind this project.

Parade routes can be moved. Not that big of a deal. Or you just don't run it for the hour while the actual parade is running across the route. Again, not the end of the world.


Yes, there will be times where the streetcar will be delayed or temporarily disabled. There are times where the bus doesn't run or is delayed due to weather. That doesn't mean that people don't put apartment buildings or offices where bus routes go. The attraction to live and work near the streetcar line doesn't diminish because it will only be available 99% of the time. There is always an option to run busses along the streetcar line if there is an outage of more than a brief time. I've ridden a bus in New Orleans running on the streetcar line.


It cracks me up when you think you've figured out something that nobody has thought of. Do you think that any of the dozens of cities running streetcars have never experienced a medical emergency or a fire or another temporary disruption? Seriously? You want to make something that isn't an issue into an issue. The support of the streetcar has been anything but short sighted.

Just for fun, I went ahead and Googled Opening Day Parade and the streetcar. I don't know what you thought I would find, but I didn't find it. I found plenty of articles about how they rerouted the parade route in 2014 because of the construction. I don't recall anyone dying or anything. Seems like they just rerouted it then went about their business.

[Kahns Krazy]

Are there any articles showing a police dept. is worth the money? Probably not. However, I think everyone will agree that a police dept. is an absolute necessity.

Anderson Township seems to do just fine by outsourcing to the county sheriff, so no, I don't think that everyone will agree that a police department is an absolute necessity.

[Emp]

Anderson Township seems to do just fine by outsourcing to the county sheriff, so no, I don't think that everyone will agree that a police department is an absolute necessity.

What? It's still absolutely necessary to have a police department, even if you just rent it. AT still has to budget for police from the county, and evaluate what they get for what they pay.

[bjf123]

Anderson Township seems to do just fine by outsourcing to the county sheriff, so no, I don't think that everyone will agree that a police department is an absolute necessity.

AT still has a police department. It's just supplied by the county, but still paid for by the residents of AT through their property taxes.


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[Kahns Krazy]

Who ever said I figured out something nobody else had figured out? I was just pointing it out.

Oh hey, let's move Oktoberfest and Taste of Cincinnati while we're at it, because, you know, gotta keep the streetcar running!

And I know other cities have events that shut down their streetcar routes, and for every city out there, it's the same problem. Yes, there is no solution to it, but it has to be considered. I don't know why you seem to think I'm trying to say something new here, because that was never my assertion.

You said that "they" didn't think of "any" of the concerns you expressed (EMS runs, maintenance, events), and that the support was short sighted. I don't know how else you wanted that interpreted.

As for moving Taste and Oktoberfest - that is a great idea. We have a brand new park and entertainment district right between our two stadiums. That is a much better location for these events than 5th street. Closing 5th street is a huge problem for downtown on the Friday before these events, and requires all of the current bus routes to be changed for the weekend. It makes total sense for these huge Cincinnati events to be in the crown jewel of our riverfront. Anyone who thinks that these events still belong on 5th Street is thinking Cincinnati Small. Leverage all of the space and parking of the banks/Smale/Yeatmans cove and make these events twice as successful as they are now.

[Kahns Krazy]

AT still has a police department. It's just supplied by the county, but still paid for by the residents of AT through their property taxes.


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So why doesn't the city do that? What is the difference in cost per capita? Why aren't more people asking questions about the $300 million line item on the budget than they are about the $3m line item on the budget? (I have a hint for you - it's because the recipients of the $300 million want it that way)

[Juice]

So why doesn't the city do that? What is the difference in cost per capita? Why aren't more people asking questions about the $300 million line item on the budget than they are about the $3m line item on the budget? (I have a hint for you - it's because the recipients of the $300 million want it that way)

When has the City of Cincinnati ever thought about efficiency or cost cutting measures? Why do they have a prosecutors office separate from the county that only handles adult misdemeanors that occur in the city when the county handles literally every other criminal case that happens in the city and county?

They don't want to cut employees and become useless and unnecessary.

[94GRAD]

This is how I'm going to use the streetcar!

https://www.facebook.com/YetmirYetmir/videos/982578515147083/?theater

[nuts4xu]

This is how I'm going to use the streetcar!

https://www.facebook.com/YetmirYetmir/videos/982578515147083/?theater

That is great! I was expecting him to go Marty McFly and grab on to the back of the street car and ride the rails for free!

[xu82]

This is how I'm going to use the streetcar!

https://www.facebook.com/YetmirYetmir/videos/982578515147083/?theater

Uphill may be considerably less fun.

[X-band '01]

Like it or not, the streetcar (aka the Cincinnati Bell Connector) is officially open for business tomorrow.

[GoMuskies]

Like it or not, the streetcar (aka the Cincinnati Bell Connector) is officially open for business tomorrow.

Woo hoo! Can't wait to never ride it!

[Juice]

Like it or not, the streetcar (aka the Cincinnati Bell Connector) is officially open for business tomorrow.

It's going to be a shit show this weekend bc people want to ride the damn thing a few blocks. I can't wait for a bunch of white people to come downtown and ruin my weekend.

[X-band '01]

It's going to be a shit show this weekend bc people want to ride the damn thing for free for a few blocks. I can't wait for a bunch of white people to come downtown and ruin my weekend.

Fixed that for you Juice.

[coasterville95]

I plan on taking a ride from the square to Rhinegeist and back this weekend.

[sirthought]

I plan to be there for the opening!

It won't be perfect in the first year, but hopefully this will only grow from here. I'd love to see a community that works more with public mass transit and less automobile dependant. And with more people moving out of middle class and below the poverty line, having transportation for getting to employment centers is crucial to the economy.

When I lived in Germany I never needed a car. I could easily get anywhere via tram (streetcar), trains, buss, or bike. And that was the case in most cities of any moderate size. Cincinnati can get there with people's support.

[fellahmuskie]

I plan to be there for the opening!

It won't be perfect in the first year, but hopefully this will only grow from here. I'd love to see a community that works more with public mass transit and less automobile dependant. And with more people moving out of middle class and below the poverty line, having transportation for getting to employment centers is crucial to the economy.

When I lived in Germany I never needed a car. I could easily get anywhere via tram (streetcar), trains, buss, or bike. And that was the case in most cities of any moderate size. Cincinnati can get there with people's support.

Well said. I'm not in love with the streetcar as transit, but I hope it helps more people buy into public transportation as a viable option.

[sirthought]

I still think this is funny


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM

[X-band '01]

I still think this is funny


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM

North Haverbrook? Oh no.

OH NO!!!!

[Kahns Krazy]

I left my downtown office yesterday, walked to the Blind Pig where I sat outside with a view of the GE Global Operations center, over 500 residential units and half a dozen or more bars and restaurants. Then I walked up to fountain square to hit the beer festival. From there, caught the streetcar to Washington Park, had dinner at Zula, drinks at the Transept and Half Cut, then caught an Uber home.

None of that existed 3 years ago. I continue to be pleased with how the city core continues to add residential, employment, and transportation options to make Cincinnati a more attractive place to live and work.

[Snipe]

OTR is kickin.

You can easily argue that it all would have happened without the streetcar.

For the record, I voted for the streetcar, even knowing that it would never operate at a profit. It will always operate at a loss.

They are selling townhomes in OTR for over a million and you see them go pending and the picture of the house is just a drawing, because it isn't even completed yet. It is the happening place to be.

Now we have spent a lot of money in OTR, streetcar or not. They made it a priority, and they had a public-private partnership in 3CDC also leverage the minds, talent and $$ of the private sector to get this to boom.

3CDC's greatest feat was getting many of the social service agencies to relocate and reclaiming Washington Park from the homeless. Washington park was always beautiful, but who would have ever gone there? The architecture in OTR was always beautiful, but who would want to live or shop there? Once they got the 'baskets of deplorables' out, it was a natural that it could be redeveloped and sold.

And all that buzzing in OTR has my neighborhood buzzing like it has never been. You wouldn't know it if you did a drive by, because it is still the hood. But more is happening now in the West End than at any time in my 16 years here. You see the seedlings of more and more people moving in and fixing up old homes, and there are only so many of them. They were all made by hand in the late 1800s. Brick and wood floors. People love that stuff. I love that stuff. It isn't anything like OTR, but the million dollar homes they are selling are within a mile from me. A mile can be a long place in real estate, so don't get me wrong I am not delusional. But I would love to see the tidal wave expand.

I go biking in OTR. My kids and I bike to Washington Park. That would have been unthinkable. We get a bit to eat or some ice cream in OTR, throw a Frisbee or kick a soccer ball (That Washington Park circle grass has gone to hell from all the events though, it used to be beautiful and more fun).

I bike to Findlay Market on the Red Bike to get my families getta fix. I do it on the Red Bike, which is also a new form of public transportation, with one a block away from my house. I can get to Findlay Market faster by bike than by car if you factor in the parking hassle. And it is a fun way to go there.

As a community we are trying to get some street car love too. No way the street car expands to the West End just for the West End's sake, so we have to do it stealth. A major attraction in our area is the Cincinnati Museum Center, and if the Streetcar is gonna be great for tourists, you want to link up our high end Museums. I was gonna say "World Class" Museums, but don't think they are World Class. I think our Zoo is. But those Museums are the pride and joy of our Elite, and they are fantastic in their own right.

But if the streetcar is going to link up with Union Terminal and the Museum Center, ain't no way it can't go through the West End. And if we ever get that done, than linking the Terminal route to Findlay Market up through Linn Street would be the next advance. It is a pipe dream for sure, but people may listen to the Union Terminal proposal. Once that is laid it builds a foundation.

Now is it worth it?

How much of government spending is worth it? I am not sure we get 50 cents on the dollar on many government contracts. The corruption in our government is expansive and wide, so much so that I think everyone is in on the game. Our Federal Government alone spends over 4 trillion dollars a year (I think, I didn't check the exact figures). On that level, so much waste and contracts to buddies and donors and what have you. Doing business with our government is a trillion dollar industry. The Clinton Foundation took in billions and approved contracts to people that gave the money. And they aren't going to jail. VP Cheney worked for Halliburton and made 30 million a year, then he became VP and gave them no-bid contracts. I would like a no-bid contract for 32 million dollars. No, wait, why am I starting so low?

You look at our Water Works fiasco. Where does the money go? They spend a lot of time making sure you can't know. And people are well paid to do it. I know a guy that worked his way onto the Brent Spence Bridge "Commission" just so he could get payoffs for his vote on who gets the contract. How much did they say that is gonna be? Maybe a billion. To build a bridge? What did the last bridge cost? Are we making bridges that much better now? This is how it ends. America is in decline. 20 trillion in debt, 15 of which is the last 15 years, and more to come. So in that sense, 3 million or 10 million on the Street Car is not a problem.

At some point you are either on the take or you are one of the suckers paying for it. Whose side do you wanna be on? Same thing with the tax code. When people think the code is both fair and fairly enforced, they don't mind taxes. But people don't want to be the sucker if everyone else is stealing or sucking from the government teat. And with all the welfare, and the corporate welfare, and the tax cheats, dodges and payoffs, the only people seemingly paying their share are working class and middle class Americans.

Now the Street Car is 18th Century Technology. We are going to put these rails in the ground, and then have wheels that ride on fixed rails. It isn't very flexible. People like that though nowdays, because it can't be moved and they argue investment will well around the streetcar line. If that is the case give the West End some love and lets get that investment going! The technology is slow, costly, expensive, and out of date. But that first weekend I say it crammed to the hilt.

If OTR keeps popping like this and people are actually coming to town to do that thing (and they are right now), maybe they knew what they are talking about. I still think we paid a ridiculously overcharged amount for the system, but transit systems are all bought by governments these days. Back in 1960, mass transit in Cincinnati was a privately owned affair, and had been for it's whole existence. Not only that, it was a profitable affair. You didn't pay taxes for it, and it made a profit and paid taxes on those profits. What a system! But wishing for 1960 makes Democrats think of Jim Crow and call me a racist. Seriously, it does. But enough about that. So we replaced the private market system with a system that costs an unbelieveable amount and never turn a profit.

So I agree with both sides, which is the ultimate lame piss out. I knew it was too much cost, but I didn't care. I knew it would never pay for itself and I didn't care. I voted for it, and I now want more of it. I seem to be afflicted with the same spending spree quality that I blame for our countries destruction, and I am guilty as charged. As BP says, if you are looking at this part of the budget, lets look at the whole fucking budget. It ain't a pretty sight to see.

So to sum up. The Street Car costs to much, but I like it. Many other people seem to like it too. They said it would spur investment, and now a townhouse in the right block costs in 7 digits in what was once a neighborhood overrun by drug dealers and insane people. We no longer like to lock them up in mental hospitals because the ACLU has fought for their rights to be free and mentally unstable and our government would rather give the money that went for their care to the people that donate to them. But OTR is rocking. You can't go through that place without noticing it.

I have no idea what happens when the next black Riot comes. Perhaps they can gentrify enough blacks out of the place that the next Cincinnati black riot actually happens elsewhere. That could well be the case. Blacks tend to riot where they live and burn down their own buildings and businesses, to the dismay of Sista Soulja. If it happened right now, things would be shattered. I was scared of that after Baltimore, and youths were running down my street shooting at one another. If we can avoid a Black riot for the next decade, things look good.

The sad thing is that when I moved downtown it was before the last Black riot. That was now 16 years ago. Main street and OTR was hopping like no time in the past, and then it all died. It took about 10 years to revive it, and now things are off the hook. I am hoping for a better OTR, and a better America.

[Juice]

OTR is kickin.

You can easily argue that it all would have happened without the streetcar.

For the record, I voted for the streetcar, even knowing that it would never operate at a profit. It will always operate at a loss.

They are selling townhomes in OTR for over a million and you see them go pending and the picture of the house is just a drawing, because it isn't even completed yet. It is the happening place to be.

Now we have spent a lot of money in OTR, streetcar or not. They made it a priority, and they had a public-private partnership in 3CDC also leverage the minds, talent and $$ of the private sector to get this to boom.

3CDC's greatest feat was getting many of the social service agencies to relocate and reclaiming Washington Park from the homeless. Washington park was always beautiful, but who would have ever gone there? The architecture in OTR was always beautiful, but who would want to live or shop there? Once they got the 'baskets of deplorables' out, it was a natural that it could be redeveloped and sold.

And all that buzzing in OTR has my neighborhood buzzing like it has never been. You wouldn't know it if you did a drive by, because it is still the hood. But more is happening now in the West End than at any time in my 16 years here. You see the seedlings of more and more people moving in and fixing up old homes, and there are only so many of them. They were all made by hand in the late 1800s. Brick and wood floors. People love that stuff. I love that stuff. It isn't anything like OTR, but the million dollar homes they are selling are within a mile from me. A mile can be a long place in real estate, so don't get me wrong I am not delusional. But I would love to see the tidal wave expand.

I go biking in OTR. My kids and I bike to Washington Park. That would have been unthinkable. We get a bit to eat or some ice cream in OTR, throw a Frisbee or kick a soccer ball (That Washington Park circle grass has gone to hell from all the events though, it used to be beautiful and more fun).

I bike to Findlay Market on the Red Bike to get my families getta fix. I do it on the Red Bike, which is also a new form of public transportation, with one a block away from my house. I can get to Findlay Market faster by bike than by car if you factor in the parking hassle. And it is a fun way to go there.

As a community we are trying to get some street car love too. No way the street car expands to the West End just for the West End's sake, so we have to do it stealth. A major attraction in our area is the Cincinnati Museum Center, and if the Streetcar is gonna be great for tourists, you want to link up our high end Museums. I was gonna say "World Class" Museums, but don't think they are World Class. I think our Zoo is. But those Museums are the pride and joy of our Elite, and they are fantastic in their own right.

But if the streetcar is going to link up with Union Terminal and the Museum Center, ain't no way it can't go through the West End. And if we ever get that done, than linking the Terminal route to Findlay Market up through Linn Street would be the next advance. It is a pipe dream for sure, but people may listen to the Union Terminal proposal. Once that is laid it builds a foundation.

Now is it worth it?

How much of government spending is worth it? I am not sure we get 50 cents on the dollar on many government contracts. The corruption in our government is expansive and wide, so much so that I think everyone is in on the game. Our Federal Government alone spends over 4 trillion dollars a year (I think, I didn't check the exact figures). On that level, so much waste and contracts to buddies and donors and what have you. Doing business with our government is a trillion dollar industry. The Clinton Foundation took in billions and approved contracts to people that gave the money. And they aren't going to jail. VP Cheney worked for Halliburton and made 30 million a year, then he became VP and gave them no-bid contracts. I would like a no-bid contract for 32 million dollars. No, wait, why am I starting so low?

You look at our Water Works fiasco. Where does the money go? They spend a lot of time making sure you can't know. And people are well paid to do it. I know a guy that worked his way onto the Brent Spence Bridge "Commission" just so he could get payoffs for his vote on who gets the contract. How much did they say that is gonna be? Maybe a billion. To build a bridge? What did the last bridge cost? Are we making bridges that much better now? This is how it ends. America is in decline. 20 trillion in debt, 15 of which is the last 15 years, and more to come. So in that sense, 3 million or 10 million on the Street Car is not a problem.

At some point you are either on the take or you are one of the suckers paying for it. Whose side do you wanna be on? Same thing with the tax code. When people think the code is both fair and fairly enforced, they don't mind taxes. But people don't want to be the sucker if everyone else is stealing or sucking from the government teat. And with all the welfare, and the corporate welfare, and the tax cheats, dodges and payoffs, the only people seemingly paying their share are working class and middle class Americans.

Now the Street Car is 18th Century Technology. We are going to put these rails in the ground, and then have wheels that ride on fixed rails. It isn't very flexible. People like that though nowdays, because it can't be moved and they argue investment will well around the streetcar line. If that is the case give the West End some love and lets get that investment going! The technology is slow, costly, expensive, and out of date. But that first weekend I say it crammed to the hilt.

If OTR keeps popping like this and people are actually coming to town to do that thing (and they are right now), maybe they knew what they are talking about. I still think we paid a ridiculously overcharged amount for the system, but transit systems are all bought by governments these days. Back in 1960, mass transit in Cincinnati was a privately owned affair, and had been for it's whole existence. Not only that, it was a profitable affair. You didn't pay taxes for it, and it made a profit and paid taxes on those profits. What a system! But wishing for 1960 makes Democrats think of Jim Crow and call me a racist. Seriously, it does. But enough about that. So we replaced the private market system with a system that costs an unbelieveable amount and never turn a profit.

So I agree with both sides, which is the ultimate lame piss out. I knew it was too much cost, but I didn't care. I knew it would never pay for itself and I didn't care. I voted for it, and I now want more of it. I seem to be afflicted with the same spending spree quality that I blame for our countries destruction, and I am guilty as charged. As BP says, if you are looking at this part of the budget, lets look at the whole fucking budget. It ain't a pretty sight to see.

So to sum up. The Street Car costs to much, but I like it. Many other people seem to like it too. They said it would spur investment, and now a townhouse in the right block costs in 7 digits in what was once a neighborhood overrun by drug dealers and insane people. We no longer like to lock them up in mental hospitals because the ACLU has fought for their rights to be free and mentally unstable and our government would rather give the money that went for their care to the people that donate to them. But OTR is rocking. You can't go through that place without noticing it.

I have no idea what happens when the next black Riot comes. Perhaps they can gentrify enough blacks out of the place that the next Cincinnati black riot actually happens elsewhere. That could well be the case. Blacks tend to riot where they live and burn down their own buildings and businesses, to the dismay of Sista Soulja. If it happened right now, things would be shattered. I was scared of that after Baltimore, and youths were running down my street shooting at one another. If we can avoid a Black riot for the next decade, things look good.

The sad thing is that when I moved downtown it was before the last Black riot. That was now 16 years ago. Main street and OTR was hopping like no time in the past, and then it all died. It took about 10 years to revive it, and now things are off the hook. I am hoping for a better OTR, and a better America.

I'll be up front and say I'm very much anti-street car. The main complaint I've heard from people who have been on it is that you're waiting too long to get on it and waiting too long to get your destination. I'd rather take an uber for a few bucks extra and get immediate service than wait for the damn thing to get to my stop and then take non-direct routes to my destination.

[X-man]

I'll be up front and say I'm very much anti-street car. The main complaint I've heard from people who have been on it is that you're waiting too long to get on it and waiting too long to get your destination. I'd rather take an uber for a few bucks extra and get immediate service than wait for the damn thing to get to my stop and then take non-direct routes to my destination.

I commuted for 10 years in DC, and never drove once. It always took longer on a bike, or on public transit, but I preferred it to the hassle of driving and parking, plus finding parking when I got back to my neighborhood at the end of the workday. And that's the point of urban public transit...a little more time, but less hassle. And for people without cars or "a few extra bucks" for Uber, public transit is the only option. These systems don't ever pay for themselves, but the nonmonetary benefits are often considerable enough to make them valuable additions to the urban landscape. I look forward to Cincinnati expanding its streetcar system.

[Snipe]

I'll be up front and say I'm very much anti-street car. The main complaint I've heard from people who have been on it is that you're waiting too long to get on it and waiting too long to get your destination. I'd rather take an uber for a few bucks extra and get immediate service than wait for the damn thing to get to my stop and then take non-direct routes to my destination.

I agree with you on that, at least in theory. The initial rush brought everyone down for the streetcar and they all were packed.

Couple that with the fact that it will never pay for itself and there you have it. This is going to be a money drain. That is all it is, but people like it, so you have to factor in that.

[Snipe]

I commuted for 10 years in DC, and never drove once. It always took longer on a bike, or on public transit, but I preferred it to the hassle of driving and parking, plus finding parking when I got back to my neighborhood at the end of the workday. And that's the point of urban public transit...a little more time, but less hassle. And for people without cars or "a few extra bucks" for Uber, public transit is the only option. These systems don't ever pay for themselves, but the nonmonetary benefits are often considerable enough to make them valuable additions to the urban landscape. I look forward to Cincinnati expanding its streetcar system.

What XMan said.

[NY44]

I commuted for 10 years in DC, and never drove once. It always took longer on a bike, or on public transit, but I preferred it to the hassle of driving and parking, plus finding parking when I got back to my neighborhood at the end of the workday. And that's the point of urban public transit...a little more time, but less hassle. And for people without cars or "a few extra bucks" for Uber, public transit is the only option. These systems don't ever pay for themselves, but the nonmonetary benefits are often considerable enough to make them valuable additions to the urban landscape. I look forward to Cincinnati expanding its streetcar system.

I live in DC now. They have the DC Streetcar up and running now. It's about 2.5 miles, I believe they plan on doing 60 miles total. I'm not completely read up on the plan, but it would be nice if they could add it to the neighborhoods where digging and extending the metro is unrealistic.

[Juice]

I commuted for 10 years in DC, and never drove once. It always took longer on a bike, or on public transit, but I preferred it to the hassle of driving and parking, plus finding parking when I got back to my neighborhood at the end of the workday. And that's the point of urban public transit...a little more time, but less hassle. And for people without cars or "a few extra bucks" for Uber, public transit is the only option. These systems don't ever pay for themselves, but the nonmonetary benefits are often considerable enough to make them valuable additions to the urban landscape. I look forward to Cincinnati expanding its streetcar system.

Yeah but the Metro in DC runs from neighborhood to neighborhood, for much greater distances, in so many more directions. The street car accomplishes maybe 5% of what the DC Metro does.

Cincinnati isn't DC. It's really easy to get around by car. Where it's not? From the suburbs to downtown and downtown to the suburbs during rush hour. And the street car isn't coming close to solving that problem. And it's not even a real problem compared to a lot of cities.

[X-man]

Yeah but the Metro in DC runs from neighborhood to neighborhood, for much greater distances, in so many more directions. The street car accomplishes maybe 5% of what the DC Metro does.

Cincinnati isn't DC. It's really easy to get around by car. Where it's not? From the suburbs to downtown and downtown to the suburbs during rush hour. And the street car isn't coming close to solving that problem. And it's not even a real problem compared to a lot of cities.
As a commuter in DC, I waited (sometimes twice when I had to connect from the Metro to a bus at Dupont Circle) on public transit, and it was definitely longer than driving even with DC traffic. So time is a factor in both DC and Cincinnati even though there are traffic differences.

When I moved here, I first lived in Hyde Park. I tried commuting by bike but found crossing I-71 on Dana on a bike a bit too dangerous. And the bus service to Xavier from Hyde Park was horrendously long and complicated. So I began commuting by car here but would go back to public transit in a heartbeat if the system worked.

[Juice]

As a commuter in DC, I waited (sometimes twice when I had to connect from the Metro to a bus at Dupont Circle) on public transit, and it was definitely longer than driving even with DC traffic. So time is a factor in both DC and Cincinnati even though there are traffic differences.

When I moved here, I first lived in Hyde Park. I tried commuting by bike but found crossing I-71 on Dana on a bike a bit too dangerous. And the bus service to Xavier from Hyde Park was horrendously long and complicated. So I began commuting by car here but would go back to public transit in a heartbeat if the system worked.

Hyde Park to XU is like 5-10 minutes tops. Why you would want to take public transportation is insane.

Also, Cincinnati is never getting public transportation in those areas and on the level you seek.

[X-man]

Hyde Park to XU is like 5-10 minutes tops. Why you would want to take public transportation is insane.

Also, Cincinnati is never getting public transportation in those areas and on the level you seek.

I don't live in Hyde Park anymore but when I did, I actually carpooled with two other XU faculty. I am a believer in public transit.

[muskiefan82]

The streetcar can be summed up for me in the immortal words from John Reese (Jim Caviezel) from season one of Person of Interest.

2081

That's a terrible plan, but I like it so let's do it.

[GuyFawkes38]

This Reason Magazine article seems a bit biased:
http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/17/cincinnati-streetcar-launch-is-disaster

[Juice]

Hmmm, I wonder what caused this. http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2017/02/22/ominous-budget-shortfall-ahead-city/98214614/

[Kahns Krazy]

Fortunately, the article answers that:


Mayor John Cranley and Cincinnati City Council -- over Black's objection -- gave city unions 5 percent raises this year, 5 percent next year and 4 percent in 2019, which has a cumulative cost of $25 million. In the 2018 budget, those raises alone account for $9 million.

It was the Mayor attempting the buy the next election with taxpayer funds.

[Juice]

Fortunately, the article answers that:



It was the Mayor attempting the buy the next election with taxpayer funds.

Between him doing that, the sanctuary city shit, and him proposing to raise taxes to pay for buses; he's going real far left and promising a lot of shit to a lot of people to remain in power.

As a Republican voter who lives in the city, I was thinking of voting for him because I saw him as the moderate candidate compared to the other two jackasses, but yeah that's not happening. Looks like I'll be leaving it blank.

[sirthought]

The streetcar funds haven't come out of the operating budget thus far.

This is totally on Cranley pulling a power play for city worker union votes by giving them raises higher than what was advised. His heart is in the right spot, but he's taken the wrong turn on almost every move he's made, including the streetcar.

[XU 87]

I am shocked, just shocked

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/05/streetcar-bosses-city-we-need-more-money/369839001/

[bobandtim]

Is there a Republican candidate for mayor? I agree Cranley is moving too far to left especially with Santuary City suggestion....never for Cincinnati....we are a law and order city!!

[xeus]

I am shocked, just shocked

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/05/streetcar-bosses-city-we-need-more-money/369839001/

I am absolutely stunned to hear this news.

[Juice]

Is there a Republican candidate for mayor? I agree Cranley is moving too far to left especially with Santuary City suggestion....never for Cincinnati....we are a law and order city!!

No. It's only Simpson and Cranley. I don't think a legitimate Republican has run since Wenstrup.

[xeus]

We haven't had a Republican mayor in Cincinnati since Xavier's own Ken Blackwell in 1980.

[bjf123]

We haven't had a Republican mayor in Cincinnati since Xavier's own Ken Blackwell in 1980.

And he'll probably be the last one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lamont Sanford]

I am shocked, just shocked

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/05/streetcar-bosses-city-we-need-more-money/369839001/

Along with 87 and Xeus, I am shocked. No, completely dumbfounded by this news. Never in a million years...

[XU 87]

I am absolutely stunned to hear this news.

The next thing you know they will be telling us that the ridership is much less than originally planned and estimated. Oh wait..................

[xeus]

The next thing you know they will be telling us that the ridership is much less than originally planned and estimated. Oh wait..................

Well, at least Duke Energy was responsible for paying to move the utilities. Oh wait .......

[paulxu]

I see Kroger is building a big, downtown supermarket soon.

Will it be on the streetcar line?

Is it going in that parking lot everyone was talking about a few months ago?

[XU 87]

I see Kroger is building a big, downtown supermarket soon.

Will it be on the streetcar line?

Is it going in that parking lot everyone was talking about a few months ago?

It will be on the streetcar line. I'm not sure which parking lot you're referring to but it's in a different locale than where the Josephs are knocking down the old abandoned hotel. 3CDC is also proposing building at the site, with a lot of money from the city, a parking garage and residential. 18 story building.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2017/06/06/kroger-build-its-first-downtown-cincinnati-supermarket-since-1969/361370001/

This is a big deal for downtown Cincinnati.

[Juice]

One year in and the stupid thing's cost are already exceeding all of these idiots' estimates

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/16/can-council/401516001/

[bjf123]

One year in and the stupid thing's cost are already exceeding all of these idiots' estimates

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/16/can-council/401516001/

Does this really surprise anyone?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[murray87]

Latest news on this boondoggle--it's been shut down during COVID but now the talk is it may never reopen unless the feds give it money. How much is anyone's guess.

[GoMuskies]

As the streetcar continues to develop, Xavier's basketball program continues to improve.

The streetcar may be shut down for good, and Xavier basketball has been kind of sucking wind. Fuck you streetcar!