The Big East Should Never Expand...EVER.

[xubrew]

From a basketball perspective, any league that has expanded has been at best as good as they were before, and in most cases not even as good as they were before. If I'm wrong, then give me an example. The ACC is no better now than it was before, and is probably worse. The Big Ten is no better now, and is probably worse. The Pac Twelve is no better, and is probably worse. The Mountain West is definitely worse. I'd say the A10's best days were as a ten team league, and it was much better as a twelve team league than a fourteen team league.

The West Coast Conference?? Okay, I'll give you that one. Adding BYU was an asset, but adding Pacific was not. They should have stayed at nine.

Divisions make sense in football, and only in football, because you can have a climactic finish to the season with a championship game between the two first place teams.

Divisions make no sense in basketball. None. Playing everyone twice a year is better for rivalry and balance. A championship game between two first place teams is not needed because we get our climactic finish via a conference tournament.

Let's never expand. Truth be told, I wish we only had nine teams instead of ten. The only way we should look at adding a team is if two teams decide to leave. Sam Vecenie from CBS Sports should have answered this question with just a one word, two letter answer. NO!!!

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25312472/college-hoops-mailbag-ohio-states-retooling-big-east-expansion

[muskiefan82]

Divisions make sense in football, and only in football, because you can have a climactic finish to the season with a championship game between the two first place teams.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25312472/college-hoops-mailbag-ohio-states-retooling-big-east-expansion

Or you end up with the first place team from one division (west) against the crappy team in the other division (east) who isn't as good as 2 or 3 of the teams that finished below the first place team from the west.

[Xville]

To say the ACC isn't better when it adds a top 10 program in Louisville, a top 15 program in Syracuse, and solid programs in Pitt and Notre Dame to me is a little head scratching.

Also, from a pure basketball perspective, the expanded Big East was probably the best conference that ever existed. Yeah it had its problems because there were so many teams, but from a pure basketball talent perspective it was pretty incredible.

[bobbiemcgee]

AS usual, I see no need to beat this dead horse any further. :pulpfiction:

[ChicagoX]

I would have no problem if UConn joined the conference should they continue to be shut out of a major conference for football down the road. They are a national name that would add to the conference's profile.

After that, I don't think there is a single program available that would add to the conference's profile, improve it and make it more attractive from a national standpoint. VCU, Dayton and SLU don't do anything to make the conference noticeably better or more popular, and that is why there is no need to add any mid-major programs such as those. If VCU could have kept Shaka, then maybe, but I expect to see them decline in the coming years in the same fashion that that will happen to Dayton when Archie leaves.

[DC Muskie]

Divisions in basketball make zero sense. It's so 1993.

Look at the NBA even they are practically getting rid of divisions. One table. Just like soccer.

[LA Muskie]

I would be opposed to just about any Big East expansion. Save, perhaps, for Fordham and St. Bonaventure. I miss them. Oh, how I miss them.

[GoMuskies]

Fordham and St. Bonaventure. I miss them. Oh, how I miss them.

Seems weird wearing a Snuggie out in public other than at the Palumbo Center. So I'd add Duquesne to your list of distinction.

[STL_XUfan]

Or you end up with the first place team from one division (west) against the crappy team in the other division (east) who isn't as good as 2 or 3 of the teams that finished below the first place team from the west.

As a Mizzou fan I am offended.

[LA Muskie]

Seems weird wearing a Snuggie out in public other than at the Palumbo Center. So I'd add Duquesne to your list of distinction.
I honestly completely forgot about Duquesne. It was as if they didn't even exist anymore. Are we sure they do?

[GoMuskies]

Are we sure they do?

Does it matter either way?

[XUFan09]

Am I the only one that did grad school at Duquesne? Ok, I forgot about them too

[GoMuskies]

Am I the only one that did grad school at Duquesne?

Oh man, it looks like you're going to have to re-do your Masters at a school that actually exists.

[XUFan09]

Oh man, it looks like you're going to have to re-do your Masters at a school that actually exists.
Dammit! I knew it!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Am I the only one that did grad school at Duquesne? Ok, I forgot about them too

I almost went there for PT school.

[xubrew]

To say the ACC isn't better when it adds a top 10 program in Louisville, a top 15 program in Syracuse, and solid programs in Pitt and Notre Dame to me is a little head scratching.

Also, from a pure basketball perspective, the expanded Big East was probably the best conference that ever existed. Yeah it had its problems because there were so many teams, but from a pure basketball talent perspective it was pretty incredible.

It depends on how you look at it. And, here is how I look at it....

From top to bottom, it was better as a nine team league. In the last 11 years of its nine team format, the ACC was the #1 RPI conference six times, the #2 RPI conference three times, and the #3 conference the other time. It was routinely the best league. It also got more than half the league into the tournament six times, and as many as six teams into the league four times. I don't think the ACC has managed to get more than half its teams in since expanding past nine, but I could be wrong. Maybe they did it once.

The Big East, as a sixteen team league, got more than half of it's teams to the tournament a grand total of once. The ACC routinely sent more than half. I'm not saying it wasn't a good conference. It was an excellent conference. I'm just saying that one division is better for everyone. I think nine teams is the ideal size. Yeah, the Big East may have had the most good teams and the most tournament teams, but going back to simple math 6/9 > 8/16. The teams in a nine team league have a much better shot at being successful, as does the league as a whole.

When you're sending more than half of the league to the tournament more than half of the time, you're doing pretty good. None of the expanded and bloated leagues have ever been able to dot hat.

[Masterofreality]

AS usual, I see no need to beat this dead horse any further. :pulpfiction:

I'm with Bobbie on this. At this point, udump and St. Louis add nothing. Let it go and just keep getting better unless, of course, our TV partner wants more exposure.

[Milhouse]

I think a potential interesting plotline down the road could be Notre Dame. I don't think it will happen this year but it is VERY possible to happen in the next few years where a Notre Dame team makes the Playoff and no ACC team makes the CFB playoff, perhaps its even a 1 loss team that lost to ND (could be GA Tech this year for instance). At this point the ND/ACC football relationship could go from mutually beneficial to toxic quickly, I could certainly see ACC try and force ND's hand here and join as a full member- which I can't see ND doing as long as they still have access to the playoffs without a conference championship game.

I think it would certainly need to be something up for consideration with Geography and institutional fit, and then rivalry history.

[muskiefan82]

I would be okay with expansion only if Dayton is not invited. I would enjoy that, I think.

[xubrew]

I think a potential interesting plotline down the road could be Notre Dame. I don't think it will happen this year but it is VERY possible to happen in the next few years where a Notre Dame team makes the Playoff and no ACC team makes the CFB playoff, perhaps its even a 1 loss team that lost to ND (could be GA Tech this year for instance). At this point the ND/ACC football relationship could go from mutually beneficial to toxic quickly, I could certainly see ACC try and force ND's hand here and join as a full member- which I can't see ND doing as long as they still have access to the playoffs without a conference championship game.

I think it would certainly need to be something up for consideration with Geography and institutional fit, and then rivalry history.

From an administrative standpoint, Notre Dame IS a full member. They have all the benefits of being a full member. They have a vote. It's not like Navy and the American Conference, or Temple in the Big East before that, or Hawaii in the Mountain West. Those are affiliate members who basically play a conference schedule in one sport, and that's basically it. Notre Dame is a full blown ACC conference member and has a say in every thing the conference does. With that in mind, I don't think they're going anywhere because....well....as an ACC member, they can vote against kicking themselves out.

I don't understand why everyone bends over backwards to appease Notre Dame. The ACC made them a full member. They are tied in with the ACC bowls despite not playing a full ACC football schedule. They get a piece of the revenue sharing. They get a vote. Yet, they don't play a conference football schedule. I don't see how this is a net gain for the ACC and have no idea why they agreed to it. But, they did. They can't just kick them out if Notre Dame takes their playoff spot, because Notre Dame would have a say in that, and that's the terms the ACC basically agreed to. For whatever reason.

[xubrew]

AS usual, I see no need to beat this dead horse any further. :pulpfiction:

The problem is I don't think it's a dead horse. I think it should be a dead horse. Given the climate of college athletics, conference expansion seems to have become a fetish. Everyone wants to expand without really thinking it through. The SEC seemingly expanded simply because the Big Ten did. No other reason. As good as Mizzou and Texas A&M are, the league was just fine before. So, then of course the ACC had to as well. And...for what??

The Atlantic Ten expanded. Why??

The Mountain West expanded. This is somewhat understandable if they wanted a championship football game.

The West Coast Conference added Pacific. What for??

WE NEED TO EXPAND!! We don't know why. We just know that we need to. That seems to be the thinking. Even now, it continues to be brought up. I'd love for the Big East to come out and say they have no interest in a format that requires teams to play more than 18 conference or play a schedule that isn't a true round robin. Then I'd be happy.

I hope you're right and that it is a dead horse.

[DC Muskie]

This will never be a dead horse until the internet and the 10 zillion sites stop existing.

[Snipe]

If the Big East expands we lose. If I found out that anyone at Xavier formally supported it or voted for it I would seriously consider dumping my season tickets.

We go to two divisions and my season ticket package will probably be home and homes with Butler, Marquette, DePaul, Dayton and Saint Louis, and that was pretty much what we had 20 years ago in the MCC.

I don't want to add another member ever. I wanted to go with 9 teams, and leave a spot open for if Notre Dame ever wanted to join.

And I would be all for kicking Butler out of the league, or at least forcing them all to convert to Catholicism. Those Godless bastards have no reason to be on even terms with us. Non Catholics spread crime and disease. Waggy will back me up on that. Bastards.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Non Catholics spread crime and disease. Waggy will back me up on that. Bastards.

I dont get the sense that Waggy is Catholic.

[Snipe]

too bad for him, glad you didn't dispute my larger points about the infidels

[GoMuskies]

I dont get the sense that Waggy is Catholic.

And who spreads more crime and disease than waggy?

[muskiefan82]

I dont get the sense that Waggy is Catholic.

Wait. You have to be Catholic to be a Xavier/Big East fan? Crap. All these years. Wasted. NKU has a team now, right?

[xudash]

Before the start of last season, there was a lot of noise about the BE's shaky start - four teams into the Tournament and barely at that, etc.

Then we had last year take place, albeit with only X advancing to the next weekend in the Tournament.

But what has and is happening that is key for us is this: the Big East as a conference is clearly demonstrating that it is capable of pulling in seriously good recruits. We now have an interesting stable of coaches, especially with Mullin and Wojo on board to add to the other solid names. Mullin, if he truly turns around St. Johns, will be one of the reasons why the Big East will be able to stay at 10 teams and never look back.

The BUSINESS MODEL: ten basketball-centric schools, private with solid brands, backed by a big ass media partner and a conference tournament at the mecca of basketball in NYC. That model not only is working, it's getting stronger.

Non-Big East basketball schools who wanted and still want in the Big East badly had to hope that the Big East stumbled just enough to warrant some amount of panic that would have led to expansion. The exact opposite is occurring.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Wait. You have to be Catholic to be a Xavier/Big East fan? Crap. All these years. Wasted. NKU has a team now, right?

Ha, I think you quoted the wrong person. I most definitely did not say that.

[Snipe]

Wait. You have to be Catholic to be a Xavier/Big East fan? Crap. All these years. Wasted. NKU has a team now, right?

As long as you don't try to marry or interbreed with fine and decent Catholics I don't see a problem with it. You also should wear a patch that says 'Unclean'. Butler should have to all wear such patches in divisional play.

[xubrew]

Before the start of last season, there was a lot of noise about the BE's shaky start - four teams into the Tournament and barely at that, etc.

Then we had last year take place, albeit with only X advancing to the next weekend in the Tournament.

But what has and is happening that is key for us is this: the Big East as a conference is clearly demonstrating that it is capable of pulling in seriously good recruits. We now have an interesting stable of coaches, especially with Mullin and Wojo on board to add to the other solid names. Mullin, if he truly turns around St. Johns, will be one of the reasons why the Big East will be able to stay at 10 teams and never look back.

The BUSINESS MODEL: ten basketball-centric schools, private with solid brands, backed by a big ass media partner and a conference tournament at the mecca of basketball in NYC. That model not only is working, it's getting stronger.

Non-Big East basketball schools who wanted and still want in the Big East badly had to hope that the Big East stumbled just enough to warrant some amount of panic that would have led to expansion. The exact opposite is occurring.

I have no idea what kind of a college basketball coach Chris Mullin will turn out to be. He could be fantastic for all I know, but I was surprised that the Johnnies went with someone who appears to be so unproven. I think they could have put together a solid pool of experienced and proven candidates, so I was kind of surprised they went in that direction.

The Johnnies should have hired Tim Cluess. It would have been fantastic for the Big East!! He's a New York guy, and with him at the helm of the Johnnies program, they would have undoubtedly routinely lost in some of the craziest, most exciting and unimaginable ways possible. The TV ratings would have gone through the roof.

[X-band '01]

I have no idea what kind of a college basketball coach Chris Mullin will turn out to be. He could be fantastic for all I know, but I was surprised that the Johnnies went with someone who appears to be so unproven. I think they could have put together a solid pool of experienced and proven candidates, so I was kind of surprised they went in that direction.

The Johnnies should have hired Tim Cluess. It would have been fantastic for the Big East!! He's a New York guy, and with him at the helm of the Johnnies program, they would have undoubtedly routinely lost in some of the craziest, most exciting and unimaginable ways possible. The TV ratings would have gone through the roof.

Cluess would have been perfect for Fordham.

[Masterofreality]

If the Big East expands we lose. If I found out that anyone at Xavier formally supported it or voted for it I would seriously consider dumping my season tickets.

We go to two divisions and my season ticket package will probably be home and homes with Butler, Marquette, DePaul, Dayton and Saint Louis, and that was pretty much what we had 20 years ago in the MCC.

I don't want to add another member ever. I wanted to go with 9 teams, and leave a spot open for if Notre Dame ever wanted to join.

And I would be all for kicking Butler out of the league, or at least forcing them all to convert to Catholicism. Those Godless bastards have no reason to be on even terms with us. Non Catholics spread crime and disease. Waggy will back me up on that. Bastards.


As long as you don't try to marry or interbreed with fine and decent Catholics I don't see a problem with it. You also should wear a patch that says 'Unclean'. Butler should have to all wear such patches in divisional play.

The Web Gestapo has me squashed at this time, but I will not let this go without public reps, Pardner!

[SM#24]

I don't understand why everyone bends over backwards to appease Notre Dame. The ACC made them a full member. They are tied in with the ACC bowls despite not playing a full ACC football schedule. They get a piece of the revenue sharing. They get a vote. Yet, they don't play a conference football schedule. I don't see how this is a net gain for the ACC and have no idea why they agreed to it.
Because they get better bowls and get games with ND that they wouldn't have otherwise gotten.

[xubrew]

Because they get better bowls and get games with ND that they wouldn't have otherwise gotten.

The ACC's bowl tie ins are exactly the same other than adding the Berf O Brady Bowl and Birmingham Bowl. They would have gotten those anyway.

[GIMMFD]

As long as you don't try to marry or interbreed with fine and decent Catholics I don't see a problem with it. You also should wear a patch that says 'Unclean'. Butler should have to all wear such patches in divisional play.

Aww come on, we banned Snipe for that? That was great!!

[XUFan09]

Aww come on, we banned Snipe for that? That was great!!
That's not what he was banned for. He trash-talked the Pope.

[OTRMUSKIE]

With the rumor that UC will be heading to the B12 along with BYU would that get the Beast looking to bring on UConn for all sports but Football or is UCONN looking to get into the ACC?

[GoMuskies]

I'm certain UConn is looking to get into the ACC. I'm just as sure they have no shot at this point. I cant see them leaving football behind, though. Too much sunk cost.

[XMuskieFTW]

With the rumor that UC will be heading to the B12 along with BYU would that get the Beast looking to bring on UConn for all sports but Football or is UCONN looking to get into the ACC?

I can't see a program with a D1 football team joining the big east. Just too many issues in doing so.

[GoMuskies]

It's a nit, but you mean an FBS program. A number of Big East teams already have Division I football.

[xudash]

With the rumor that UC will be heading to the B12 along with BYU would that get the Beast looking to bring on UConn for all sports but Football or is UCONN looking to get into the ACC?

Where did you read about this rumor, specifically?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Where did you read about this rumor, specifically?

I googled it after he said that and came across an enquirer articles from either yesterday or today about UC to the Big12 and Ono's efforts to make it happen and how the Oklahoma President likes Ono. It did not say anything about BYU though and it said expansion was imminent but there may be some decisions made in May.

[xudash]

I googled it after he said that and came across an enquirer articles from either yesterday or today about UC to the Big12 and Ono's efforts to make it happen and how the Oklahoma President likes Ono. It did not say anything about BYU though and it said expansion was imminent but there may be some decisions made in May.

Key quote: "Big 12 expansion is not imminent, but UC is believed to be on a short list of schools to join a 10-member conference that...."

I seriously don't believe they can make the TV money work with any two available teams. That partially explains the dialogue concerning the additions taking lessor shares.

OU getting to the playoffs may have lessened the pressure for a conference championship game. We'll see.

What is clear is that they are absolutely sweating in Clifton.

[waggy]

I'm pretty sure their entire problem is Mick Cronin.

[xubrew]

If the Big Twelve expands then I'm almost certain Houston will be a part of it. The Texas Board of Regents, which oversees all of the Texas public schools, wants Houston in. They can force Texas and Texas Tech to push for it even if those two schools would rather it not be Houston.

Houston will be one of the schools, even if no one who's actually in the conference really wants them. In fact, I really don't think Texas and Texas Tech do went them. I think they'd be fine just sticking with ten. But, they may be forced to argue for them anyway.

If they do expand, I think Cincinnati would be the 12th team. I don't know exactly why. I just know what. It's painfully obvious the communication between the two has been extensive. And, they're really not a terrible pick, so if you have to go to twelve, which it looks like the issue may be forced, I guess they're as good as anyone.

Just to be clear, I really don't think they gain anything by expanding. I just think they're eventually going to do it anyway.

[xubrew]

With the rumor that UC will be heading to the B12 along with BYU would that get the Beast looking to bring on UConn for all sports but Football or is UCONN looking to get into the ACC?

I don't think the American would allow them to remain an affiliate football member if they left the conference for all the other sports.

Navy is a football affiliate. If they wanted an additional football affiliate then Army would make a hell of a lot more sense than UConn.

[GoMuskies]

I hope Cincinnati gets in. And Houston (if they can't work things out with BYU). I think both would do fine as members of a Power 5 league and "deserve" (which I know is a loaded word in these discussions) to be there as much as the Rutgers, Wakes, TCUs, Washington States and Vandys of the world. It would expect it to be a net positive for the city of Cincinnati as well.

I'm certainly not scared of a bit of competition in Xavier's backyard. We managed to pass them as a program when they had all the advantages, so I have no concerns about fighting them on equal ground.

[xubrew]

I hope Cincinnati gets in. And Houston (if they can't work things out with BYU). I think both would do fine as members of a Power 5 league and "deserve" (which I know is a loaded word in these discussions) to be there as much as the Rutgers, Wakes, TCUs, Washington States and Vandys of the world. It would expect it to be a net positive for the city of Cincinnati as well.

I'm certainly not scared of a bit of competition in Xavier's backyard. We managed to pass them as a program when they had all the advantages, so I have no concerns about fighting them on equal ground.

Are they even trying to work things out with BYU?? I've seen that speculated in the media. I've seen no actual evidence of it. I could be wrong, but I don't think BYU is even being considered.

[GoMuskies]

I have no idea on BYU, honestly. It's just that if they want the best overall sports program available, BYU is pretty much a no-brainer. It's those "other" issues that make BYU harder to deal with. But hey, if you can make it work with Baylor, you ought to be able to figure something out with BYU in my opinion.

[X-band '01]

If the speculation is true that they're asking teams like Cincinnati to take a smaller share of the revenue pie, then I'd feel safe in assuming that BYU wants no part of a setup like that. Houston and Cincinnati are desperate enough to whore themselves out to the Big 12 in such a manner, but UConn is never going to play 2nd fiddle to Texas and Oklahoma in that manner.

[GoMuskies]

UConn is never going to play 2nd fiddle to Texas and Oklahoma in that manner.


Why wouldn't they? Their alternative is to...well, die.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Are they even trying to work things out with BYU?? I've seen that speculated in the media. I've seen no actual evidence of it. I could be wrong, but I don't think BYU is even being considered.

I'm not really seeing any evidence of it either. If they do end up expanding, would likely be UC and one of the following - Houston, Memphis, UConn, or Colorado State.

[STL_XUfan]

If the speculation is true that they're asking teams like Cincinnati to take a smaller share of the revenue pie, then I'd feel safe in assuming that BYU wants no part of a setup like that. Houston and Cincinnati are desperate enough to whore themselves out to the Big 12 in such a manner, but UConn is never going to play 2nd fiddle to Texas and Oklahoma in that manner.

Doesn't BYU have their own TV network? Would they get to keep all of that money along with getting a share of the Big XII pool (much like Texas and the the Longhorn network)? If that is the case, then it may be very attractive to BYU.

[GoMuskies]

I don't know how much money BYU TV is generating. They show some sports occasionally (my daughter records the gymnastics meets), but I think it's mostly religious programming.

[bleedXblue]

I'm not really seeing any evidence of it either. If they do end up expanding, would likely be UC and one of the following - Houston, Memphis, UConn, or Colorado State.

UC football isn't even close to the same stratosphere as the current Big 12 schools. UCONN is too far away IMHO. Houston? Why even go there?

[GoMuskies]

UC football isn't even close to the same stratosphere as the current Big 12 schools.


Which ones? I think if UC was the 11th team in last year's Big XII they'd have beaten 3 or 4 Big XII opponents. And they'd of course get a recruiting bump going forward.

[THRILLHOUSE]

UC football isn't even close to the same stratosphere as the current Big 12 schools. UCONN is too far away IMHO. Houston? Why even go there?

If the B12 is going to expand, there will be one eastern University added so they can have a travel partner for West Virginia. Out of the available options, UC makes the most sense.

As Brew said, Houston will get some political push. Like UC they have made some facility upgrades (new football stadium, making renovations to their basketball arena). Top 10 TV market. Though I'm more skeptical than Brew about them getting an invite. No one else in the Big 12 (in Texas or outside of Texas) really wants another Texas school in the conference. But they would at least get a look.

UConn probably only gets an invite if they snub UC. (but as MOR replied, the proximity to the NYC TV market makes UConn an attractive option)

[Masterofreality]

If the B12 is going to expand, there will be one eastern University added so they can have a travel partner for West Virginia. Out of the available options, UC makes the most sense.

As Brew said, Houston will get some political push. Like UC they have made some facility upgrades (new football stadium, making renovations to their basketball arena). Top 10 TV market. Though I'm more skeptical than Brew about them getting an invite. No one else in the Big 12 (in Texas or outside of Texas) really wants another Texas school in the conference. But they would at least get a look.

UConn probably only gets an invite if they snub UC.

UConn would get New York TV eyes for Big 12 football & basketball. Much more attractive than SucKS for a tv contract right renewal fee .

[THRILLHOUSE]

UConn would get New York TV eyes for Big 12 football & basketball. Much more attractive than SucKS for a tv contract right renewal fee .

True. The New York TV market does make up for travel distance.

You can pretty much make a good case for and against every University that will be considered. In the end, I think they'll stay at 10 schools. (for the time being anyway)

[bleedXblue]

Which ones? I think if UC was the 11th team in last year's Big XII they'd have beaten 3 or 4 Big XII opponents. And they'd of course get a recruiting bump going forward.

I'm referring to facilities and attendance. I think UC averaged like 28K a game last year. Not exactly a hot bed for college football.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I'm referring to facilities and attendance. I think UC averaged like 28K a game last year. Not exactly a hot bed for college football.

They averaged 28k in 2014. They averaged about 37k in 2015.

[GoMuskies]

I'm referring to facilities and attendance. I think UC averaged like 28K a game last year. Not exactly a hot bed for college football.

They'd match up just fine against the bottom of the Big XII. Obviously the attendance would be higher if Oklahoma, Texas, TCU and Baylor were visiting instead of UConn, Memphis, and Tulane.

[LA Muskie]

If the B12 is going to expand, there will be one eastern University added so they can have a travel partner for West Virginia. Out of the available options, UC makes the most sense.

As Brew said, Houston will get some political push. Like UC they have made some facility upgrades (new football stadium, making renovations to their basketball arena). Top 10 TV market. Though I'm more skeptical than Brew about them getting an invite. No one else in the Big 12 (in Texas or outside of Texas) really wants another Texas school in the conference. But they would at least get a look.

UConn probably only gets an invite if they snub UC. (but as MOR replied, the proximity to the NYC TV market makes UConn an attractive option)

I would imagine the non-TX schools might actually prefer Houston. It would dilute the TX recruiting market which would disproportionately harm the TX schools. And for that reason I would be very surprised if the Regents pushed for it. Remember for the most part the TX Regents = UT Austin.

Now that he Big 12 can have a conference championship at 10, I think we'll see them wait and see how that works out before expanding.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[THRILLHOUSE]

I would imagine the non-TX schools might actually prefer Houston. It would dilute the TX recruiting market which would disproportionately harm the TX schools. And for that reason I would be very surprised if the Regents pushed for it. Remember for the most part the TX Regents = UT Austin.

Now that he Big 12 can have a conference championship at 10, I think we'll see them wait and see how that works out before expanding.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good points.

[bleedXblue]

They'd match up just fine against the bottom of the Big XII. Obviously the attendance would be higher if Oklahoma, Texas, TCU and Baylor were visiting instead of UConn, Memphis, and Tulane.

So why then would they be interested in adding a bottom feeder to share money with....that's my entire point. If you're going to expand, you should be looking to upgrade and improve.

[xudash]

By my way of thinking:

1. IS THE BIG 12 UNDER COMPETITIVE PRESSURE TO EXPAND? No, not now; not since Oklahoma proved that a Big 12 member can make it into the "new" playoff structure. The first year result with that conference getting shut out raised eyebrows. Who knows what would be happening now had OU not made it into this year's playoff. Bottomline: the Big 12 set a precedent with sending a team into the playoff from a conference that does not hold a conference championship game.

2. FAVORABLE LEGISLATION FOR THE BIG 12. So, not only did they get a team into the playoffs without staging a conference championship game, they've now been informed that they're free and clear to stage a conference championship game with 10 teams if they want. The specific need to add 2 teams in order to stage a CCG has literally been washed away.

3. IT'S ABOUT TELEVISION MONEY, STUPID. With all due thanks to Bill Clinton, let's properly stay focused on what truly drives expansion these days: money. More specifically, money that is derived from media agreements. Comparatively speaking, the dollars begin to thin out in the mid-section of the country, given the general population figures out there. Sure, Houston can deliver numbers. Cincinnati can certainly deliver good numbers straight up, and certainly as compared to Manhattan, KS and Stillwater, OK, and etc. But it just seems like there is more STRESS on putting together an impactful media rights solution for the Big 12. CAN THEY ADD 2 TEAMS THAT WOULD LEAD TO AN ACCRETIVE OUTCOME? That Cincinnati Enquirer article seemed to clearly answer that question with a NO!

4. ACTUALLY, WE'RE POLITICIANS, SO IT'S ACTUALLY ABOUT POLITICS - STUPID. In other words, some amount of significant pressure is brought from within the State of Texas to literally add Houston, and those that want expansion leverage Austin and Lubbock to abide. I don't know how real that is, given that I'm sure there are many prominent Longhorn alumni who are positioned to offset the influence of the Houston contingent. The question here is whether or not political pressure from some corner could become the catalyst for expansion. I don't know if it can or not, but I guess that idea can't be ruled out.

It appears as though we'll learn more about all this in May, when conference meetings crank back up.

However, in summation, the Big 12 got into the playoff this year, they can otherwise now stage a CCG with 10 members, and they're situated with a media markets configuration that is less than conducive for making additions.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they held at 10, at least for a while. Just like the Big East, they don't NEED to expand to achieve success. And imagine what may happen when UT, in particular, wakes back up in football.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not advocating for the Big XII to expand. I just doing think UC would be completely out of its league, so to speak. I suspect TCU was similar from an attendance/facilities standpoint shortly before they got invited to the Big XII. And they've certainly added positively to the league in football (they're a basketball disaster).

[xudash]

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/02/15/nippert-expansion-possible-if-uc-joins-big-12/80405222/

[Masterofreality]

I'm not advocating for the Big XII to expand. I just doing think UC would be completely out of its league, so to speak. I suspect TCU was similar from an attendance/facilities standpoint shortly before they got invited to the Big XII. And they've certainly added positively to the league in football (they're a basketball disaster).

As to TCU vs SucKs's facilities, not really. TCU had a 46,000 seat stadium in place. Then, two years before getting any invite to the league, they authorized a $164 million renovation to the stadium. There is NO comparison to Nippert to Amon G Carter stadium. The Borecats can only hang their hat on playing their hoped for Big 12 home games at Paul Brown, which, of course, will cost them rent.

I agree that SucKS would be completely out of their league...and everyone knows that there would be few incremental TV eyes created for the Big 12 by expanding in Cincinnati. Ohio State rules the TV roost in Ohio- and further erosion from potential SucKS viewers takes place from the MAC. TV networks know it too, that's why there would be few additional TV dollars thrown at the league for new rights fees if the Clifton kitties were added, but the present dollars would all of a sudden be split 12 rather than 10 ways.

The black and red are really no benefit to the Big 12, no matter how much rabble rousing hope the fawning local Cincy media want to create. If there was any strong need to expand, the league would have done it, but now that they can have their Championship game with no added players, they have no need. They can keep patting Santa on his head and saying what a good boy he is, but they aren't inviting him to the Big Boy Party.

[GoMuskies]

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/02/15/nippert-expansion-possible-if-uc-joins-big-12/80405222/

Seems like they could play a key game or two at PBS if demand outgrew Nippert. Maybe Texas and Oklahoma would rate PBS. WV probably would, too, but then it would be half Steeler fans. (And no, that was not a typo).

[coasterville95]

Just saying they need to do another Nippert expansion less than 2 years after doin a Nippert expansion surely shows poor planning. Had they had the foresight, they could have done both this upgrade (which was mostly about making the club and luxury seat holders more posh and comfortable than anything) and upgraded the grandstand to 55,000. Adding another 15,000 or so will also mean further expansion to infrastructure. (Concessions, restrooms, gates, parking) let's not forget they just poured a lot of money into Nippert and two restroom areas are still port a potties. That new indoor cafeteria under the scoreboard is a nice touch.

Then they are also committed to another boat load of money to essentially gut and redo the shoe box.

And their athletics program is running $28mil a year in the red. (All per that Enquirer article.).

If they spend all that and he Big 12 thing falls through...

[Masterofreality]

If they spend all that and he Big 12 thing falls through...

....They'll just throw it on to Ohio taxpayers to foot the bill by burying it into some "Education Appropriations" bill. :thumbsdown:

[GoMuskies]

I'm more than willing to let MOR help foot the bill. :)

[paulxu]

I know this is crazy, because everyone wants to be on campus, but if PB stadium is only used 10 times a year or so, why not just use it?

[X-band '01]

Here's the potential UC and UConn moves from a Texas perspective (http://www.hornfans.com/threads/new-big-12-expansion-rumor.97573/page-3)

Hilarious.

[GoMuskies]

Here's the potential UC and UConn moves from a Texas perspective (http://www.hornfans.com/threads/new-big-12-expansion-rumor.97573/page-3)

Hilarious.

Those guys are...delusional.

[STL_XUfan]

Here's the potential UC and UConn moves from a Texas perspective (http://www.hornfans.com/threads/new-big-12-expansion-rumor.97573/page-3)

Hilarious.

I like the poster who suggested inviting Mizzou back to the Big XII. I would pay good money to be in on that conference call.

[JTG]

If the speculation is true that they're asking teams like Cincinnati to take a smaller share of the revenue pie, then I'd feel safe in assuming that BYU wants no part of a setup like that. Houston and Cincinnati are desperate enough to whore themselves out to the Big 12 in such a manner, but UConn is never going to play 2nd fiddle to Texas and Oklahoma in that manner.

Why not ? Football drives the bus in college athletics and UConn is less than a nobody in college football. They should be thrilled if invited.

[X-band '01]

It's ACC or bust for UConn.

[American X]

Val says we can all shut up and I agree with her:


NO EXPANSION PLANS: Big East commissioner Val Ackerman attended Wednesday’s game and said there are no current plans to expand the conference beyond 10 teams.

The double-round robin format, in which every league team plays one another twice, provides a true champion and has been praised by Big East coaches.

The NCAA Selection Committee also has called it advantageous in terms of how it evaluates Big East teams, Ackerman said, because “with an unbalanced schedule, you don’t play everybody the same number of times (and) it tends to be harder to discern and separate out teams.”

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2016/02/25/attention-detail-difference-no-5-xavier/80922404/

[Masterofreality]

Val says we can all shut up and I agree with her:


NO EXPANSION PLANS: Big East commissioner Val Ackerman attended Wednesday’s game and said there are no current plans to expand the conference beyond 10 teams.

The double-round robin format, in which every league team plays one another twice, provides a true champion and has been praised by Big East coaches.

The NCAA Selection Committee also has called it advantageous in terms of how it evaluates Big East teams, Ackerman said, because “with an unbalanced schedule, you don’t play everybody the same number of times (and) it tends to be harder to discern and separate out teams.”

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2016/02/25/attention-detail-difference-no-5-xavier/80922404/

Hallelujah!!!! Praise the Lawd!!!! Thank you Val for the confirmation!!!

Sorry VD. Your hoped for lifeboat just sunk. Enjoy your yearly huge matchups with Fordham.

[XUMIOH12]

Good. There is no need to expand right now.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Good. There is no need to expand right now.

Hold up,on that car wash gentleman http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4699769-big-east-expansion-wichita-state-gonzaga-creighton-ad

[MauriceX]

Hold up,on that car wash gentleman http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4699769-big-east-expansion-wichita-state-gonzaga-creighton-ad

Man, I thought Creighton was too far west for the Big EAST. But Gonzaga?

I also wouldn't like the prospect of splitting into geographic regions. I assume that would mean the West portion of the Big East would be Gonzaga, Wichita St., Creighton, Depaul, Butler, and Marquette... and the East would be Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Nova, GTown, and us. In my mind, that creates an imbalance of power in the conference, as the East group would be much stronger.

[bleedXblue]

This would be a colossally stupid move.

[Masterofreality]

This would be a colossally stupid move.

And it will never happen like this. The NY Times had a similar articles week ago.

If you add one west. The eastern schools want one added east for easier travel scenarios. Two western schools also adds lots of cost to minor non revenue producing sports.

Hey Creighton guy, just be happy with what you've got and shut up.

[chico]

Hey Creighton guy, just be happy with what you've got and shut up.

Exactly. If they feel the need to have more teams out that way then go back to the Missouri Valley. 10 teams is the perfect size for this conference.

[xubrew]

How about instead of adding the two teams Creighton suggested, we just remove Creighton?? Nine teams is good. That's 16 conference games and 13 OOC games (non exempt). I think that's ideal.

[MHettel]

Put me on the list as someone who believes the conference should continue to consolidate the top level D1 Programs that are not already in a Big 5 football conference. There are 2 things to look for, programs and potential. And my potential I mean markets.

I'd expand to 16 teams, 15 conference games, play every team once. Every other year you get a home game with every other team.

Goal: Expand West, with Gonzaga being the jewel of the strategy.

Expansion Candidates (in no particular order here): Richmond, Dayton, St. Louis, VCU, Wichita State, Gonzaga, St. Mary's. Seattle U.

My choices: Richmond, Dayton, ST. Louis, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Seattle U. There is a case to be made for all of these teams, aside from Seattle U. There are a lot of desirable media markets here and each of these teams has shown at least some degree of success, a fair amount of fan support, and access to the resources needed to take the next steps (the primary MEANS of taking the next steps is simply the inclusion into a far superior conference, which immediately increase the program profile and drives recruiting etc.)

Aside from just thinking about the appeal of a "national" conference, ya'know given that the broadcast footprint is national, is that the current "balanced" schedule in the Big East is simply not good for our RPI or SOS.

The big east currently plays 18 conference games. Every one of those games results in a win and a loss for members of the conference. If we drop to 15 conference games, that creates 3 new non-con game opportunities per team, and assuming an intelligent approach to scheduling, we should win solidly 2/3rds of those added games and replace a bunch of losses with a bunch of wins on our opponents schedule. I'm not sure how many people really understand the RPI, but the record of your opponents is the most important aspect of the RPI (aside from winning or losing the actual games), and with a small conference and an oversized conference schedule, the effect is like an anvil. I'll run the numbers some day and recast all the BE team RPIs for this year. My guess is 3-4 RPI positions each, if not more. Every little bit helps.

[GoMuskies]

I'd rather go independent than play in that league.

[chico]

I'd rather go independent than play in that league.

I agree - I'd take a walk if that league were proposed.

[xudash]

Put me on the list as someone who believes the conference should continue to consolidate the top level D1 Programs that are not already in a Big 5 football conference. There are 2 things to look for, programs and potential. And my potential I mean markets.

I'd expand to 16 teams, 15 conference games, play every team once. Every other year you get a home game with every other team.

Goal: Expand West, with Gonzaga being the jewel of the strategy.

Expansion Candidates (in no particular order here): Richmond, Dayton, St. Louis, VCU, Wichita State, Gonzaga, St. Mary's. Seattle U.

My choices: Richmond, Dayton, ST. Louis, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Seattle U. There is a case to be made for all of these teams, aside from Seattle U. There are a lot of desirable media markets here and each of these teams has shown at least some degree of success, a fair amount of fan support, and access to the resources needed to take the next steps (the primary MEANS of taking the next steps is simply the inclusion into a far superior conference, which immediately increase the program profile and drives recruiting etc.)

Aside from just thinking about the appeal of a "national" conference, ya'know given that the broadcast footprint is national, is that the current "balanced" schedule in the Big East is simply not good for our RPI or SOS.

The big east currently plays 18 conference games. Every one of those games results in a win and a loss for members of the conference. If we drop to 15 conference games, that creates 3 new non-con game opportunities per team, and assuming an intelligent approach to scheduling, we should win solidly 2/3rds of those added games and replace a bunch of losses with a bunch of wins on our opponents schedule. I'm not sure how many people really understand the RPI, but the record of your opponents is the most important aspect of the RPI (aside from winning or losing the actual games), and with a small conference and an oversized conference schedule, the effect is like an anvil. I'll run the numbers some day and recast all the BE team RPIs for this year. My guess is 3-4 RPI positions each, if not more. Every little bit helps.


Other than the fact that this would butcher the Big East brand and, much more importantly, dilute our media distribution - Fox will never true-up the television agreement for this - it was an imaginative idea.

[paulxu]

Without checking, my impression is that FS1 broadcasts a lot of west coast (pac 12?) games after ours.
If it is the pac 12, I can't see them giving up airtime for Seattle U.

[OTRMUSKIE]

I am totally for adding Gonzaga and St Mary's. Basketball only. We would only travel out west once a year to play both teams. They would be the ones who would have to travel all the time. So as long as they can financially do it I say go ahead it seems like a great get.

[BMoreX]

I am totally for adding Gonzaga and St Mary's. Basketball only. We would only travel out west once a year to play both teams. They would be the ones who would have to travel all the time. So as long as they can financially do it I say go ahead it seems like a great get.

Can't be "basketball-only" per NCAA rules. It would include all non-revs.

[Seven Eighths]

How about instead of adding the two teams Creighton suggested, we just remove Creighton?? Nine teams is good. That's 16 conference games and 13 OOC games (non exempt). I think that's ideal.

+1. I was not in favor of adding them to begin with. Good program but terrible location that really does not fit with the other 9 schools.

[GetUp5]

Screw the Zags. Would never work with non-revenue sports.

Scoop up Wichita and VCU and call it a day.

Easy.

[xubrew]

Screw the Zags. Would never work with non-revenue sports.

Scoop up Wichita and VCU and call it a day.

Easy.

Or, let's just call it a day!!

Seriously, there is something to be learned from Goldie Locks. 9/10 teams is just right. Not too many. Not too few. Not too hot. Not too cold. Expansion is a bad idea. I'd rather go down to nine than up to twelve.

[XUFan09]

+1. I was not in favor of adding them to begin with. Good program but terrible location that really does not fit with the other 9 schools.

I wasn't in favor of adding them either. It seemed like the conference was trying to get to 10, and I can see some reasoning behind that (larger footprint while preserving round-robin), but only Xavier and Butler really seemed to fit with the other schools. Unlike those two, Creighton hadn't transcended the mid-major label. In the first year, I remember Creighton fans at Holy Land of Hoops talking about how they held the current record in the Big East for most consecutive appearances in a postseason tournament. That's nice and everything, but they were counting NIT appearances (dubious at best as part of a streak) and CBI appearances (opportunities that schools like Xavier have actually declined). It was just a really mid-major streak and seemed to be a true sign of "mid-major thinking" (a term that incidentally seems to be thrown around too much).

That being said, I do like the addition now, as they look like a program that just needed that boost of conference affiliation to make the jump to the next level. I don't think we are going to see them in the bottom two of the conference much in the coming years, now that they are able to recruit to the Big East, and they will probably garner a top four spot fairly often.

Plus, here's another benefit: Creighton, at least under McDermott, tries to employ a 4-out or 5-out offense to varying success, depending on personnel. On the defensive end, they focus heavily on grabbing rebounds and not fouling, so that even when they don't have defensive talent, they still are good or decent in these specific categories, meaning that a team usually has to beat them on their first field goal attempt of a possession. Essentially, they are a challenge to guard compared to "traditional" teams and their defense is unusual too. It's good for teams to see a squad like this twice a year, as such playstyles are more common among mid-majors. It prepares Big East teams well for possible tournament opponents that fall outside the playstyles they are used to. I don't think the Catholic 7 presidents and athletic directors were really considering this specific aspect of Creighton, but it is definitely a benefit.

[GoMuskies]

Hello from Wichita. I am in the middle of fucking nowhere. It makes no sense to add a program from my town to the Big East Conference.

[muskienick]

Hello from Wichita. I am in the middle of fucking nowhere. It makes no sense to add a program from my town to the Big East Conference.

And yet we see 'Omaha' in the map accompanying each one your posts!

[XMuskieFTW]

Creighton sucks geographically, but other than that it's fine. They actually fill their arena unlike some other big east teams. *cough fire JT3 cough* Creighton currently has the #3 recruiting class for 2017(I know it's early) with the espn #43 and #44 recruits. They should continue to improve and make this league more competitive. Now if only we could do something about that atrocious DePaul program.

[GoMuskies]

And yet we see 'Omaha' in the map accompanying each one your posts!

If I had been consulted, I would have advised against Creighton. Weird that no one asked.

[xubrew]

If I had been consulted, I would have advised against Creighton. Weird that no one asked.

No one asked me either, which I thought was VERY strange.

[GuyFawkes38]

Put me on the list as someone who believes the conference should continue to consolidate the top level D1 Programs that are not already in a Big 5 football conference. There are 2 things to look for, programs and potential. And my potential I mean markets.

I'd expand to 16 teams, 15 conference games, play every team once. Every other year you get a home game with every other team.

Goal: Expand West, with Gonzaga being the jewel of the strategy.

Expansion Candidates (in no particular order here): Richmond, Dayton, St. Louis, VCU, Wichita State, Gonzaga, St. Mary's. Seattle U.

My choices: Richmond, Dayton, ST. Louis, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Seattle U. There is a case to be made for all of these teams, aside from Seattle U. There are a lot of desirable media markets here and each of these teams has shown at least some degree of success, a fair amount of fan support, and access to the resources needed to take the next steps (the primary MEANS of taking the next steps is simply the inclusion into a far superior conference, which immediately increase the program profile and drives recruiting etc.)

Aside from just thinking about the appeal of a "national" conference, ya'know given that the broadcast footprint is national, is that the current "balanced" schedule in the Big East is simply not good for our RPI or SOS.

The big east currently plays 18 conference games. Every one of those games results in a win and a loss for members of the conference. If we drop to 15 conference games, that creates 3 new non-con game opportunities per team, and assuming an intelligent approach to scheduling, we should win solidly 2/3rds of those added games and replace a bunch of losses with a bunch of wins on our opponents schedule. I'm not sure how many people really understand the RPI, but the record of your opponents is the most important aspect of the RPI (aside from winning or losing the actual games), and with a small conference and an oversized conference schedule, the effect is like an anvil. I'll run the numbers some day and recast all the BE team RPIs for this year. My guess is 3-4 RPI positions each, if not more. Every little bit helps.

Yikes. No offense, but that just sounds awful.

It worries me a bit that Creighton is proposing expansion. Are they feeling isolated within the conference and would they like to champion two teams to have two close allies? Whatever is happening, hopefully other ADs within the conference will listen to him and shut him up.

Some of the top Catholic/Private universities are in the Big East. It gives us a competitive advantage against other Catholic/Private universities like Dayton. We do not want to water-down this great thing we have going now.

I'm against any expansion, but it goes without saying, NEVER allow Dayton into the Big East.

[XUFan09]

Yikes. No offense, but that just sounds awful.

It worries me a bit that Creighton is proposing expansion. Are they feeling isolated within the conference and would they like to champion two teams to have two close allies? Whatever is happening, hopefully other ADs within the conference will listen to him and shut him up.

Some of the top Catholic/Private universities are in the Big East. It gives us a competitive advantage against other Catholic/Private universities like Dayton. We do not want to water-down this great thing we have going now.

What about it is awful? The Creighton fans bragging about their postseason streak that included the NIT and CBI? That I like the addition now, as it seems to be working? That there has been an unexpected fringe benefit that the conference's other teams can get experience against an unusual playstyle prior to the tournament? You don't make it clear at all in your post, so I don't know what could possibly be offensive.

I don't like that Creighton is proposing expansion either, if you somehow inferred from my post that I do like that.

[bobbiemcgee]

The creighton AD should stfu. Stay @ 10.

[xukeith]

The creighton AD should stfu. Stay @ 10.

money talks.
Off topic: I heard from a Board of Trustees at X that Univ. of Louisville is one of 3 schools that CMack is permitted to go to without a buyout.

[GuyFawkes38]

What about it is awful? The Creighton fans bragging about their postseason streak that included the NIT and CBI? That I like the addition now, as it seems to be working? That there has been an unexpected fringe benefit that the conference's other teams can get experience against an unusual playstyle prior to the tournament? You don't make it clear at all in your post, so I don't know what could possibly be offensive.

I don't like that Creighton is proposing expansion either, if you somehow inferred from my post that I do like that.

Completely my fault. I thought I was responding to Mhettle. Accidentally selected your post and then corrected it. You make some good points.

[xeus]

The creighton AD should stfu. Stay @ 10.


I heard from a Board of Trustees at X that Univ. of Louisville is one of 3 schools that CMack is permitted to go to without a buyout.

I think both the Creighton AD and the Xavier BoT member should STFU.

[xeus]

I'm very much in the camp of staying at 10 teams in this league. But if the league did decide to expand, I sure hope it wouldn't be with teams like Gonzaga, St Mary's, VCU, or Wichita St.

Best option, which would be extremely unlikely, and that would be ND (with them independent in football.) That's not gonna happen, but if it did, I'd go to 12 teams in a cocaine heartbeat. I think my next choice would be to add SLU. (I'd have actually added SLU before Crieghton.) Beyond that, it's just not worth it.

[XUFan09]

Completely my fault. I thought I was responding to Mhettle. Accidentally selected your post and then corrected it. You make some good points.
Oh ok, I was so confused lol.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Masterofreality]

I'm very much in the camp of staying at 10 teams in this league. But if the league did decide to expand, I sure hope it wouldn't be with teams like Gonzaga, St Mary's, VCU, or Wichita St.

Best option, which would be extremely unlikely, and that would be ND (with them independent in football.) That's not gonna happen, but if it did, I'd go to 12 teams in a cocaine heartbeat. I think my next choice would be to add SLU. (I'd have actually added SLU before Crieghton.) Beyond that, it's just not worth it.

As far as I'm concerned, if there ever is an expansion, the only two schools that I would accept with no qualification are Notre Dame and Boston College. That gives a west/east balance without compromising the map. BC cannot believe that they can continue to compete in the ACC..in anything. If they want to just keep stealing money, ala Fordham, from the rest of the ACC, then that is their choice, but I can't see them ever being successful, despite what some of their blow hard boosters think.

[muskiefan82]

As far as I'm concerned, if there ever is an expansion, the only two schools that I would accept with no qualification are Notre Dame and Boston College. That gives a west/east balance without compromising the map. BC cannot believe that they can continue to compete in the ACC..in anything. If they want to just keep stealing money, ala Fordham, from the rest of the ACC, then that is their choice, but I can't see them ever being successful, despite what some of their blow hard boosters think.

This, but I would replace BC with UCONN if they ever give up their football dream.

[GIMMFD]

This, but I would replace BC with UCONN if they ever give up their football dream.

Came to say this, I think UCONN would be a great fit with us, they have an okay football team, but they'd fit in with good programs other than basketball as well (soccer, etc.) and open up a new market, plus they're a good basketball school period. Would suck for our women's team however...

[xudash]

As far as I'm concerned, if there ever is an expansion, the only two schools that I would accept with no qualification are Notre Dame and Boston College. That gives a west/east balance without compromising the map. BC cannot believe that they can continue to compete in the ACC..in anything. If they want to just keep stealing money, ala Fordham, from the rest of the ACC, then that is their choice, but I can't see them ever being successful, despite what some of their blow hard boosters think.

MOR,

I agree with you completely about those two being the optimal schools, but we both know it isn't happening.

The reasons for ND never joining the BE are obvious enough.

Frankly, BC is right there with them. It's an over statement, but one pass by Doug Flutie in the mid-80's changed things at BC forever. BC has been able to spin up a multi-billion endowment and selectivity. It's a $60k price tag with not much in the way of financial support being offered, given the demand for the place. It's Chestnut Hill location is beautiful. And I believe it's in the process of pumping $200 million into an athletic complex that will include indoor football practice facilities.

BC jumped to the ACC from the Big East faster than Xavier jumped from the A10 to the Big East. The administration there is tickled pink; that $20 million'ish per year ACC distribution goes a long way for a school of that size. In the present world of college football, they're most likely locked into mediocrity for the duration. Otherwise, if they ever are smart enough to select a high energy, young, talented assistant from somewhere who could work his way into a nice situation there, basketball could be turned around sufficiently enough for them to find their way back to the NCAA Tournament.

Beyond all that, the Big East is rock solid as it now stands. There actually is ZERO incentive to add new members now. Nova delivered a badly needed and key piece: strengthened conference credibility by punching through to the Final Four. This year's conference tournament at MSG was a truly smashing success. Multiple ranked teams, a #1 ranked team, 2 Top 5/10 ranked teams and all that provided perception-wise throughout the regular season. Viewership is trending up. Loving the ten teams and the Round Robin format. It's all working, and very nicely.

We are in a buyers market, but with nothing worth buying presently. We certainly aren't going to do something amazingly stupid like dilute the conference with sub-par teams. Thank God for the Presidents and Val Ackerman. Nothing is a given anyway, especially when it comes to the notion of adding teams to attempt to increase NCAA bids.

The only program that has any kind of cache is Gonzaga, and it's just too far away.

[toledodan]

MOR,

I agree with you completely about those two being the optimal schools, but we both know it isn't happening.

The reasons for ND never joining the BE are obvious enough.

Frankly, BC is right there with them. It's an over statement, but one pass by Doug Flutie in the mid-80's changed things at BC forever. BC has been able to spin up a multi-billion endowment and selectivity. It's a $60k price tag with not much in the way of financial support being offered, given the demand for the place. It's Chestnut Hill location is beautiful. And I believe it's in the process of pumping $200 million into an athletic complex that will include indoor football practice facilities.

BC jumped to the ACC from the Big East faster than Xavier jumped from the A10 to the Big East. The administration there is tickled pink; that $20 million'ish per year ACC distribution goes a long way for a school of that size. In the present world of college football, they're most likely locked into mediocrity for the duration. Otherwise, if they ever are smart enough to select a high energy, young, talented assistant from somewhere who could work his way into a nice situation there, basketball could be turned around sufficiently enough for them to find their way back to the NCAA Tournament.

Beyond all that, the Big East is rock solid as it now stands. There actually is ZERO incentive to add new members now. Nova delivered a badly needed and key piece: strengthened conference credibility by punching through to the Final Four. This year's conference tournament at MSG was a truly smashing success. Multiple ranked teams, a #1 ranked team, 2 Top 5/10 ranked teams and all that provided perception-wise throughout the regular season. Viewership is trending up. Loving the ten teams and the Round Robin format. It's all working, and very nicely.

We are in a buyers market, but with nothing worth buying presently. We certainly aren't going to do something amazingly stupid like dilute the conference with sub-par teams. Thank God for the Presidents and Val Ackerman. Nothing is a given anyway, especially when it comes to the notion of adding teams to attempt to increase NCAA bids.

The only program that has any kind of cache is Gonzaga, and it's just too far away.

Xavier AD told me last season in Omaha there was no chance of expanding anytime soon. The conference loves the round robin format and 10 is the perfect size. If Fox pushes the issue of more bigger markets maybe but nothing from California and Texas seem likely in terms of expansion or makes sense.

[xubrew]

Xavier AD told me last season in Omaha there was no chance of expanding anytime soon. The conference loves the round robin format and 10 is the perfect size. If Fox pushes the issue of more bigger markets maybe but nothing from California and Texas seem likely in terms of expansion or makes sense.

WAHOO!!!!!!

What about the idea of actually contracting by a team??

[GoMuskies]

WAHOO!!!!!!

What about the idea of actually contracting by a team??

It would have had to be a wink, wink, nod, nod kind of discussion, since they were physically in Omaha at the time.

[bigdiggins]

As long as FOX is broadcasting Big East home games in the Gavitt challenge they will not push for expansion.

[xubrew]

As long as FOX is broadcasting Big East home games in the Gavitt challenge they will not push for expansion.

Having to fork out more money will probably keep a lid on it as well.