Farr story in the Chicago Tribune

[Boro Muskie]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/evanston/sports/ct-evr-james-farr-xavier-mens-basketball-tl-0625-20150625-story.html

Nice little write up on one of our own.

[bobbiemcgee]

Unselfish, hard worker. I think he gives this team everything he's got. Hoping for a great year. Needs a little pixie dust on those 3 pt. attempts.

[xu82]

Unselfish, hard worker. I think he gives this team everything he's got. Hoping for a great year. Needs a little pixie dust on those 3 pt. attempts.

Yes, pixie dust, or perhaps light taser therapy during the off season could retrain him from even trying (in a nice way, of course). We have enough credible threats without resorting to the Farr three. Let's keep our best rebounder nearer to the rim. I'm funny that way.

[MADXSTER]

I don't have a problem with Farr taking 3 pt attempts but I do have an issue with him being so far away from the basket. If he misses then it is usually a one and done scenario. I think that's why his misses tend to stick out more than others.

[NY44]

If he misses then it is usually a one and done scenario. I think that's why his misses tend to stick out more than others.

Really? I think it's cause his misses are just plain ugly.

[TUclutch]

Really? I think it's cause his misses are just plain ugly.

This. Farr should be allowed no more than 2 threes per game. If he makes the first he can shoot a second. Miss the first and he's done for the game shooting behind the arc. We don't need him to be a shooter and most times, he is going to be no better than our 4th option to score. Keep it inside

[xukeith]

This. Farr should be allowed no more than 2 threes per game. If he makes the first he can shoot a second. Miss the first and he's done for the game shooting behind the arc. We don't need him to be a shooter and most times, he is going to be no better than our 4th option to score. Keep it inside

Agree.

[waggy]

Farr is going to shoot 3's. You guys would make really shitty coaches.

[casualfan]

I don't have a problem with Farr taking 3 pt attempts but I do have an issue with him being so far away from the basket. If he misses then it is usually a one and done scenario. I think that's why his misses tend to stick out more than others.

He shot 28% last year from deep. That's why his misses stick out. They happen at a higher clip than what you'd expect from a guy who shoots a decent amount of them.

[NY44]

Farr is going to shoot 3's. You guys would make really shitty coaches.

Change that first sentence to "Farr is going to make 3's" and I think there's a discussion to be had.

[GoMuskies]

Farr is going to shoot 3's. You guys would make really shitty coaches.

I'm sure I'd be a shitty coach, but the least of my shortcomings in that respect would be telling a guy who is really bad at shooting three-pointers to stop shooting them.

[SemajParlor]

Haven't read the article yet but I will.

Farr's percentage from 3 isn't anything to write home about, but his ability to stretch the floor on offense is. I'm curious to see stats on Stainbrook's individual efficiency with Farr in the game vs Jalen. Clearly Jalen is the more skilled player, but there was a method to Mack's madness about starting Farr last year - he creates advantageous isolation matchups for our main big. And in turn, Jalen will be an animal in the post this year. I'm not saying he is Draymond Green, nor is Farr the most versatile or prime example of a stretch 4, but his threat to pick and pop without losing presence on the glass is an underrated skill he possesses. Shoot 3's, crash the boards, create spacing. He's a good representation of the evolving game.

[casualfan]

Haven't read the article yet but I will.

Farr's percentage from 3 isn't anything to write home about, but his ability to stretch the floor on offense is. I'm curious to see stats on Stainbrook's individual efficiency with Farr in the game vs Jalen. There was a method to Mack's madness about starting Farr last year -he creates advantageous isolation matchups for our main big. And in turn, Jalen will be an animal in the post this year. I'm not saying he is Draymond Green, nor is Farr the most versatile or prime example of a stretch 4, but his threat to pick and pop without losing presence on the glass is an underrated skill he possesses. Shoot 3's, crash the boards, create spacing. He's a good representation of the evolving game.

The idea is there, but the execution always wasn't. I think you saw as the year went on and he continued to miss shots that teams were much more comfortable leaving him open to give the guy guarding Matt help.

From January through the end of the year last year he made 6 threes in 24 games. That's one every 4 games.

Unless he gets that % up over 33% teams are going to just keep leaving him open out there.

[waggy]

I'm sure I'd be a shitty coach, but the least of my shortcomings in that respect would be telling a guy who is really bad at shooting three-pointers to stop shooting them.

To completely stop shooting them is not the answer.

[MuskieXU]

From what I remember, Farr took way too many ill advised 3's. We have plenty of 3 pt shooters without him chucking them up, and we need him under the basket because hes our best rebounder. Farrs not going to impress scouts with his 3 pt shooting next year, I really dont see what the problem is with telling him not to shoot 3s.

[SemajParlor]

The idea is there, but the execution always wasn't. I think you saw as the year went on and he continued to miss shots that teams were much more comfortable leaving him open to give the guy guarding Matt help.

From January through the end of the year last year he made 6 threes in 24 games. That's one every 4 games.

Unless he gets that % up over 33% teams are going to just keep leaving him open out there.

True - he only shot 19 though. Which is just about exactly what his percentage was. He's not exactly the chucker that some seem to be making him out to be.

[SemajParlor]

From what I remember, Farr took way too many ill advised 3's. We have plenty of 3 pt shooters without him chucking them up, and we need him under the basket because hes our best rebounder. Farrs not going to impress scouts with his 3 pt shooting next year, I really dont see what the problem is with telling him not to shoot 3s.

He really didn't though, that's the thing. His worst game 3 point shooting was 1-4.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/61190/james-farr

[SemajParlor]

To completely stop shooting them is not the answer.

Especially when you factor in eFG %

[NY44]

He really didn't though, that's the thing. His worst game 3 point shooting was 1-4.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/61190/james-farr

I really don't buy the spacing angle as ideal/effective. I think our offense is already very spread out. With the exception of Stainbrook and Reynolds, pretty much every other player worked from the 3 point line last season. My main grievance is that we need another scoring big in the paint more than spacing on the arc.

[waggy]

It seems silly to me to run much, or really any post offense thru Farr. Putbacks are great of course.

[Chalmers0]

Farr missing 3's can be frustrating, however I was much more frustrated by his 50% shooting around the rim last year...

[casualfan]

True - he only shot 19 though. Which is just about exactly what his percentage was. He's not exactly the chucker that some seem to be making him out to be.

Which furthers my point that his outside shooting didn't really affect how team's were guarding in the post against us.

Teams are running out at guys shooting 28% and they're certainly not running out at guys shooting 28% that take less than one attempt per game.

[MuskieXU]

I wouldnt exactly call him a chucker, but when you have the 20th rated offense (according to KenPom) theres really no reason for 6'9 Forward who shoots 29% to be putting up 3s at all. Anything short of being wide open (and I dont recall him getting many wide open looks) just pass the ball and let our scorers score.

[waggy]

I wouldnt exactly call him a chucker, but when you have the 20th rated offense (according to KenPom) theres really no reason for 6'9 Forward who shoots 29% to be putting up 3s at all. Anything short of being wide open (and I dont recall him getting many wide open looks) just pass the ball and let our scorers score.

He had open looks. Not that has much bearing on anything. Sometimes you're open for a reason.

Bottom line though is that the offense is such that Farr is going to get opportunities from 3. He just needs to shoot with more accuracy.

[MuskieXU]

Agreed. As much as I complain, if CM didnt think Farr could make those shots he would not let him take them. Farr shot 38% his sophomore year, hopefully he can return to form.

[SemajParlor]

Which furthers my point that his outside shooting didn't really affect how team's were guarding in the post against us.

Teams are running out at guys shooting 28% and they're certainly not running out at guys shooting 28% that take less than one attempt per game.

I'm not sure if I follow the connection between post defense and Farr's 3 point field goal percentage. Don't think he's a dead eye shooter by any means. I was crediting him and Mack's usage of floor spacing when he's on the court.

[GoMuskies]

Farr shot 38% his sophomore year, hopefully he can return to form.

Yes, but he was only 6-25 once conference play started. So he's hit 19 out of his last 70 3s for a sparkling 27.1%. Not exactly a tiny sample size.

[casualfan]

I'm not sure if I follow the connection between post defense and Farr's 3 point field goal percentage. I was crediting him and Mack's usage of floor spacing when he's on the court.

An earlier poster mentioned that when he is out there his outside shooting opens up the interior for our guys. He mentioned this helping Stainbrook last year and how it will help Jalen this year.

My response was that James doesn't make enough nor take enough threes for teams to worry about guarding him beyond the 3-pt line.

The idea that teams are having their 4 chase Jimmy out to the 3-pt line in lieu of staying in to play help on our other bigs is ludicrous IMHO.

[SemajParlor]

An earlier poster mentioned that when he is out there his outside shooting opens up the interior for our guys. He mentioned this helping Stainbrook last year and how it will help Jalen this year.

My response was that James doesn't make enough nor take enough threes for teams to worry about guarding him beyond the 3-pt line.

The idea that teams are having their 4 chase Jimmy out to the 3-pt line in lieu of staying in to play help on our other bigs is ludicrous IMHO.




Farr's percentage from 3 isn't anything to write home about, but his ability to stretch the floor on offense is. I'm curious to see stats on Stainbrook's individual efficiency with Farr in the game vs Jalen. Clearly Jalen is the more skilled player, but there was a method to Mack's madness about starting Farr last year - he creates advantageous isolation matchups for our main big.

Gotcha that was me. I guess the disconnect is you are equating me with saying that his 3 point ability is driving defenders at him, when I was referring to floor spacing and positioning creating more opportunities for our more talented post players.

[casualfan]

Gotcha that was me. I guess the disconnect is you are equating me with saying that his 3 point ability is driving defenders at him, when I was referring to floor spacing and positioning creating more opportunities for our more talented post players.

No i know what you're saying. You're saying that him being able to shoot takes guys out of the lane and gives our other bigs more room to operate.

My response is that teams don't worry about guarding James out there because he can't shoot.

[SemajParlor]

No i know what you're saying. You're saying that him being able to shoot takes guys out of the lane and gives our other bigs more room to operate.

My response is that teams don't worry about guarding James out there because he can't shoot.

No, I'm not. Although I'll admit, this is probably about semantics at this point.

There's more to being on the perimeter or high post than 3 point percentage, or other obsolete statistics when analyzing a role player's effectiveness. I'm saying his floor positioning and ability to create defensive disturbances with high screens and PnR's is good. Especially when it doesn't come at the price of negating rebounds. Once in a while, that will turn to open looks for 3. And it's much more efficient than conventional 2 low post players - especially when you already have a great one. Spacing, spacing, spacing. This is where basketball is going, and I'm happy we have a coach that recognizes this.

[XUFan09]

I've said all along that he must be still hitting the threes in practice, or the coaches would have stopped telling him to shoot when open. Farr's in-game percentage isn't that bad when you consider that the sample size is small. If he made one more three, his percentage would jump from 28% to 31%, which is okay for your backup three-point option. If he made two more threes, he would be tied with Macura for third best percentage on the team. I'm not presenting this as a "if ifs and wishes" type of thing but to show how easily the percentage fluctuates with that small sample size. It's straightforward math: He had 45 attempts, so a single attempt has a large potential value of 2.22% toward the overall percentage. Compare that to Macura/Remy at 1.05%, Dee and 0.92%, Trevon at 0.72%, and Myles at 0.61%. From a statistical perspective, I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in making a judgment with Farr's sample size.

Farr's mid-range game stretched the floor more effectively than his long-range game. Still, he did stretch the floor with his three-point shooting. People claim that no one is going to guard a 29% three-point shooter, which isn't true. No one is going to guard a 29% mid-range shooter, but a three-point shooter would have an effective shooting percentage of 43.5%. That's not a huge threat but you need to pay some attention to it. For comparison, Myles' 2-point percentage was 40.7% and Dee's was 45.8%, and the defenses collapsed on these guys.

The game of basketball is about spacing. On the one side, you have guys like Brad Redford who need someone in their face well beyond the three-point arc; on the other side, you have guys like C.J. Anderson who can be left entirely alone as a shooter. Everyone else is somewhere in between on that scale in terms of how closely you need to guard them. Farr doesn't generally have someone in his grill (though the bad shots people complain about are bad precisely because someone is), but I guarantee that his man is a couple steps closer to him than Jalen's or Stain's, and those two guys are good mid-range shooters. The defender might not be as close to him as a guy guarding Doellman or Duncan was, but a couple steps is stll a significant difference in college basketball. It does so many things, including making it that much harder to double the post or to provide help on dribble penetration. Because of that, it's particularly valuable to pull a big farther from the basket, and though Farr doesn't pull his defender away as far as a good shooter would, he pulls him away farther than the average big would.

[NY44]

I was referring to floor spacing and positioning creating more opportunities for our more talented post players.

Basically he stays out of the way?

[SemajParlor]

I've said all along that he must be still hitting the threes in practice, or the coaches would have stopped telling him to shoot when open. Farr's in-game percentage isn't that bad when you consider that the sample size is small. If he made one more three, his percentage would jump from 28% to 31%, which is okay for your backup three-point option. If he made two more threes, he would be tied with Macura for third best percentage on the team. I'm not presenting this as a "if ifs and wishes" type of thing but to show how easily the percentage fluctuates with that small sample size. It's straightforward math: He had 45 attempts, so a single attempt has a large potential value of 2.22% toward the overall percentage. Compare that to Macura/Remy at 1.05%, Dee and 0.92%, Trevon at 0.72%, and Myles at 0.61%. From a statistical perspective, I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in making a judgment with Farr's sample size.

Farr's mid-range game stretched the floor more effectively than his long-range game. Still, he did stretch the floor with his three-point shooting. People claim that no one is going to guard a 29% three-point shooter, which isn't true. No one is going to guard a 29% mid-range shooter, but a three-point shooter would have an effective shooting percentage of 43.5%. That's not a huge threat but you need to pay some attention to it. For comparison, Myles' 2-point percentage was 40.7% and Dee's was 45.8%, and the defenses collapsed on these guys.

The game of basketball is about spacing. On the one side, you have guys like Brad Redford who need someone in their face well beyond the three-point arc; on the other side, you have guys like C.J. Anderson who can be left entirely alone as a shooter. Everyone else is somewhere in between on that scale in terms of how closely you need to guard them. Farr doesn't generally have someone in his grill (though the bad shots people complain about are bad precisely because someone is), but I guarantee that his man is a couple steps closer to him than Jalen's or Stain's, and those two guys are good mid-range shooters. The defender might not be as close to him as a guy guarding Doellman or Duncan was, but a couple steps is stll a significant difference in college basketball. It does so many things, including making it that much harder to double the post or to provide help on dribble penetration. Because of that, it's particularly valuable to pull a big farther from the basket, and though Farr doesn't pull his defender away as far as a good shooter would, he pulls him away farther than the average big would.

Great post.

[xu82]

I've said all along that he must be still hitting the threes in practice, or the coaches would have stopped telling him to shoot when open. Farr's in-game percentage isn't that bad when you consider that the sample size is small. If he made one more three, his percentage would jump from 28% to 31%, which is okay for your backup three-point option. If he made two more threes, he would be tied with Macura for third best percentage on the team. I'm not presenting this as a "if ifs and wishes" type of thing but to show how easily the percentage fluctuates with that small sample size. It's straightforward math: He had 45 attempts, so a single attempt has a large potential value of 2.22% toward the overall percentage. Compare that to Macura/Remy at 1.05%, Dee and 0.92%, Trevon at 0.72%, and Myles at 0.61%. From a statistical perspective, I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in making a judgment with Farr's sample size.

Farr's mid-range game stretched the floor more effectively than his long-range game. Still, he did stretch the floor with his three-point shooting. People claim that no one is going to guard a 29% three-point shooter, which isn't true. No one is going to guard a 29% mid-range shooter, but a three-point shooter would have an effective shooting percentage of 43.5%. That's not a huge threat but you need to pay some attention to it. For comparison, Myles' 2-point percentage was 40.7% and Dee's was 45.8%, and the defenses collapsed on these guys.

The game of basketball is about spacing. On the one side, you have guys like Brad Redford who need someone in their face well beyond the three-point arc; on the other side, you have guys like C.J. Anderson who can be left entirely alone as a shooter. Everyone else is somewhere in between on that scale in terms of how closely you need to guard them. Farr doesn't generally have someone in his grill (though the bad shots people complain about are bad precisely because someone is), but I guarantee that his man is a couple steps closer to him than Jalen's or Stain's, and those two guys are good mid-range shooters. The defender might not be as close to him as a guy guarding Doellman or Duncan was, but a couple steps is stll a significant difference in college basketball. It does so many things, including making it that much harder to double the post or to provide help on dribble penetration. Because of that, it's particularly valuable to pull a big farther from the basket, and though Farr doesn't pull his defender away as far as a good shooter would, he pulls him away farther than the average big would.

And yet I still cringe when he goes into his shooting motion....