5/3rd Arena Overhaul

[Cheesehead]

The University of Cincinnati is searching for a construction team to help coordinate and oversee a projected $80 million renovation of Fifth Third Arena.

Documents show the University attempting, "A major renovation project that will completely transform the present-day arena into a state-of-the-art, NCAA Division 1 collegiate basketball and special events venue."

The University says a design team for the renovation is already under contract, and the 13,176-seat arena is in "dire need" of a major rehabilitation.

The project description says the new seating layout would feature a 360 degree seating bowl, blowing out the retractable seating in the lower level. To accomplish this, the existing stairs, restrooms and concession stands on the main concourse would have to be demolished as part of the renovation.

UC says fans would no longer have to climb a flight of stairs in order to access their seats in the lower bowl, according to the renderings.

The University says the most significant change would be the creation of an all new upper level concourse featuring restrooms, concessions and retail kiosks for fans located in the upper bowl of the arena. Renderings show the current 500 level UCATS Club would be opened become part of the upper deck concourse. The 600 level UCATS Club would remain enclosed.

Additionally, a "significant portion" of the current upper level bench-type seating will be replaced with chairback seats.

The existing suites on the east side of the arena would be eliminated and become part of the lower level seating, according to the project description.

University officials confirm to FOX19 NOW that a board meeting will take place to discuss the Fifth-Third Arena renovation plan. A date has not been set.

Copyright 2015 WXIX. All rights reserved.

[xudash]

Good for them.

Then they can figure out how they're going to pay for it.

[Cheesehead]

Good for them.

Then they can figure out how they're going to pay for it.

That's kinda what I thought. Do they even have the Nippert renovation paid off?


Oh and Cintas was built for $46 million. Although I imagine the costs would be much higher now.

[xudash]

That's kinda what I thought. Do they even have the Nippert renovation paid off?


Oh and Cintas was built for $46 million. Although I imagine the costs would be much higher now.

I believe Nippert was virtually all privately funded.

They don't have a dime lined up for this project yet, at least based on what I've read and been told. Still, they appear to be spending hard cash on this discovery process. Per the Fox report: "The University says a design team for the renovation is already under contract."

Terrible predicament for an athletic department to be in - - having to keep up with Big 5 programs in the hopes of becoming one some day without having Big 5 money to keep up.

[blobfan]

That's kinda what I thought. Do they even have the Nippert renovation paid off?


Oh and Cintas was built for $46 million. Although I imagine the costs would be much higher now.

As a rule of thumb, isn't it often cheaper to build from scratch than to extensively remodel an existing structure?

[muskiefan82]

As a rule of thumb, isn't it often cheaper to build from scratch than to extensively remodel an existing structure?

That logic is sound, I think.

[drudy23]

Risky proposition. If they do this and don't land in a major conference, they will have zero payoff.

Could be great, and could be disastrous.

They simply can't command the big football dollars. They're just not there in football consistently enough to get noticed. So glad Xavier doesn't have to make that decision and basically knows what its cash cow is.

[ballyhoohoo]

Just hitting lip stick on a pig

[usfldan]

Here's the RFQ for anyone who wants to submit their proposal. There are some sketches at the end.

http://ofcc.ohio.gov/Portals/0/Documents/OhioReg/2015/05272015%20RFQ%20UCN-15074A.pdf

[xubrew]

Exactly how much is 5/3rd Bank planning on chipping in?

[Milhouse]

Had UC been with the times just even 5 years ago they probably would've been in the ACC.

[drudy23]

Had UC been with the times just even 5 years ago they probably would've been in the ACC.

With what money? They are building things "hoping" it works out.

They are in the worst possible position. Medium sized market with a whole bunch of collegiate and professional competition. They don't have the resources to compete at the highest level in both sports. Just not big enough. Playing the middle ground in both sports isn't going to get them anywhere. They have to decide who they are.

[muskiefan82]

With what money? They are building things "hoping" it works out.

They are in the worst possible position. Medium sized market with a whole bunch of collegiate and professional competition. They don't have the resources to compete at the highest level in both sports. Just not big enough. Playing the middle ground in both sports isn't going to get them anywhere. They have to decide who they are.

It's too late. They can't decide to be a basketball school now. They've spent too much money into renovating Nippert. They can't decide to be a football school either, because they are not in a power football conference. I have to believe they are in deep water, with no working engines, and their radio only working sporadically. Hopefully they can get a message through to a power conference while someone is manning the other end of the communication. If not, this could go downhill rapidly for UC.

[GoMuskies]

Had UC been with the times just even 5 years ago they probably would've been in the ACC.

Replacing who? There really aren't any additional spots, and there's no scenario in which they were beating out Syracuse, Pitt or Louisville.

[xudash]

It's too late. They can't decide to be a basketball school now. They've spent too much money into renovating Nippert. They can't decide to be a football school either, because they are not in a power football conference. I have to believe they are in deep water, with no working engines, and their radio only working sporadically. Hopefully they can get a message through to a power conference while someone is manning the other end of the communication. If not, this could go downhill rapidly for UC.

As it stands right now, the landscape sets up quite poorly for them when it comes to getting a successful message through to a power conference. By process of elimination:

Pac12 - obviously no.
SEC - virtually impossible.
B1G - definitely no way.
ACC - they'll stand at 14 unless the model goes to 4x16. Even then, there would be consolidation between the ACC and Big12.
Big12 - This is the only Power5 conference that can save them.

But, as it stands right now, they won't save them, either. I seriously believed that the Big12 would have announced the additions of two teams by now, taking them to a conference championship game. It just seemed logical after what happened to that conference with respect to last year's play-off result. Is it that the play-off related money isn't heavy enough on the scale to tip the effect of two more teams on their TV revenue package?

If that's the case, that speaks volumes about the weak profiles of the two prospective additions. 40k seating capacity in Nippert after dumping millions into the place. What were they thinking?

[xubrew]

The ACC would have never wanted UC. The Big Twelve was the only power conference I could see considering them, but right now a lot of them seem to be happy at ten, even after what happened in football. That could always change I guess.

[xudash]

The ACC would have never wanted UC. The Big Twelve was the only power conference I could see considering them, but right now a lot of them seem to be happy at ten, even after what happened in football. That could always change I guess.

I agree that the ACC would have never wanted UC outright. They're at 14 now and they got there with the schools they wanted to add: Pitt and 'cuse, and then UL, once it had built out its athletic program to the point it could no longer be ignored for inclusion at a P5 level.

The point about the 4x16 model is to remind everyone that they would be completely boxed out at that point, because it would be the ACC or the Big12 cracking up in their current forms to create 4 ultra-power conferences, with one of those two conferences technically going away, with some of their schools getting scattered to the other P3 conferences, and with one school literally getting the boot due to the fact that that group would stand at 65 with ND included.

[Masterofreality]

As a rule of thumb, isn't it often cheaper to build from scratch than to extensively remodel an existing structure?


Just hitting lip stick on a pig

Yes to both.

[drudy23]

I heard on the radio today that only the Oklahoma President is open to expansion in the Big 12 right now. They're stuck.

[Masterofreality]

I heard on the radio today that only the Oklahoma President is open to expansion in the Big 12 right now. They're stuck.

In the meantime, there will be a whole generation of kids that will develop no interest in SucKS athletics. Ohio State is the big boy and will continue to be. The Borecats may as well join the MAC because that is the basic level they will be on for a long long time.

Paying The Yellow Toothed Gnome $2 million a year doesn't help the budget either.

[SM#24]

I seriously believed that the Big12 would have announced the additions of two teams by now, taking them to a conference championship game. It just seemed logical after what happened to that conference with respect to last year's play-off result. Is it that the play-off related money isn't heavy enough on the scale to tip the effect of two more teams on their TV revenue package?

If that's the case, that speaks volumes about the weak profiles of the two prospective additions. 40k seating capacity in Nippert after dumping millions into the place. What were they thinking?
I haven't analyzed it (but I bet the Big XII has), but intuitively I would think that a conf. championship game would hurt as often as it would help. Last year was a fluke. Even if they had a championship game that had Baylor beating K St., they still would have probably been jumped by the 59-0 score. It was the score; how often is that going to happen ?

At the end of the day, I don't think there are two schools that will bring the value add to the other ten, even if it means foregoing a championship game.

[Masterofreality]

I haven't analyzed it (but I bet the Big XII has), but intuitively I would think that a conf. championship game would hurt as often as it would help. Last year was a fluke. Even if they had a championship game that had Baylor beating K St., they still would have probably been jumped by the 59-0 score. It was the score; how often is that going to happen ?

At the end of the day, I don't think there are two schools that will bring the value add to the other ten, even if it means foregoing a championship game.

Remember that if you add 2 schools, all of a sudden you have to divide the TV and anciliary income by two more. That would probably negate or even put in the negative, your school's net income.

Why take a secondary option like a SucKS that adds little to no value? They won't.

[Juice]

Remember that if you add 2 schools, all of a sudden you have to divide the TV and anciliary income by two more. That would probably negate or even put in the negative, your school's net income.

Why take a secondary option like a SucKS that adds little to no value? They won't.

The Big 12 actually announced that their TV contract increases the payout if they add teams so that each schools share stays the same.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I haven't analyzed it (but I bet the Big XII has), but intuitively I would think that a conf. championship game would hurt as often as it would help. Last year was a fluke. Even if they had a championship game that had Baylor beating K St., they still would have probably been jumped by the 59-0 score. It was the score; how often is that going to happen ?

At the end of the day, I don't think there are two schools that will bring the value add to the other ten, even if it means foregoing a championship game.

Yeah, people overreacted to what happened last season. If OSU loses or only wins by a little bit vs Wisconsin, a B12 team gets in. Plus, pre B10 Championship Game, OSU benefitted multiple times from a lack of a championship. Then in 2013 OSU loses the B10 Championship and misses out on the BCS Title game. So more often than not, it has been better to not have a conference championship game. Last year was just flukey. So unless this turns from a fluke to a trend, then I don't see the B12 expanding.

[Masterofreality]

The Big 12 actually announced that their TV contract increases the payout if they add teams so that each schools share stays the same.

Thanks. Good info.

[outsideobserver11]

UC does have some support of Big 12 schools but it won't matter. 7 of the 10 schools have to agree on expansion and Texas and there 3 in-state minions are against it.

As I have said before here, the football stadium is paying for itself with things that were added, but the basketball arena I have no idea. Probably wishful thinking on my part, but I can't help but think the BOT probably wouldn't have approved all of this without knowing something.

[coasterville95]

My friendly local Fan asked me if I saw this news, and then proceeded to tell me they are planning on playing a season at Cincinnati Gardens. Any truth to this at all? Last I heard the Gardens was wanting to sell out and close up shop, and the urban legend that their basketball floor (our old floor) is warped way beyond usage.

So what we need to happen is for them to decide to use the Gardens the same year they host the Shootout, then all the people that want to "Go back to the Gardens one last time" can have that wish fulfilled.

They said US Bank Arena wanted too much money to host them for a season.

[muskiefan82]

I wonder if NKU would be interested in letting them play at BB&T arena?

[GoMuskies]

It would be odd for the University of Cincinnati to play home games in Kentucky.

[XUPhilly04]

It would be odd for the University of Cincinnati to play home games in Kentucky.

Why? The airport is already there.

[X-band '01]

I wonder if NKU would be interested in letting them play at BB&T arena?

I did a double take on that post until I realized that the former Bank of Kentucky is now under the BB&T corporate umbrella.

Anyone got an over/under on when we'll just have one single bank in this country?

[Masterofreality]

They said US Bank Arena wanted too much money to host them for a season.

Are you kidding me? SucKS wants to act like they are "big time" but can't or won't even pay up the money to play in US Blank? Can you imagine Georgetown saying that The Verizon Center "wanted too much money" to play a season there?

What a little brother the Borecats are now.

[coasterville95]

Well, the Enquirer has reported that UC officials toured the Gardens a week or so ago, but then the same article also said they toured US Bank Arena. And wasn't there a thread on here some time ago that hinted that they even toured Cintas Center. I'm sure they are exploring all options.

[paulxu]

Rent them the Cintas. May have to install drapes to make the crowd look like a full house.

[xu82]

Rent them the Cintas. May have to install drapes to make the crowd look like a full house.

A little too nice for that crowd. Is Dana's parking lot available for home games? No need to pave it, make them feel at home.

[coasterville95]

Perhaps they made a big show of touring the Gardens and all to try to get a better price out of US Bank Arena. I'm sure the USBA thinks (possibly rightfully so) that they can charge top dollar, and this was UC's way of saying "There ARE other arenas's available".

Now, will USBA call their bluff and say "Hey, if you want to play in that 1940's relic, go ahead, I'm sure that will really impress your recruits. Did they show you the guest bathrooms on that tour?"

[STL_XUfan]

Rent them the Cintas. May have to install drapes to make the crowd look like a full house.

Can you imagine the gut punch to their pride it would be playing a full season where every nationally broadcast home game spends at least 5 minutes talking about the greatness of our facilities?

[outsideobserver11]

Perhaps they made a big show of touring the Gardens and all to try to get a better price out of US Bank Arena. I'm sure the USBA thinks (possibly rightfully so) that they can charge top dollar, and this was UC's way of saying "There ARE other arenas's available".

Now, will USBA call their bluff and say "Hey, if you want to play in that 1940's relic, go ahead, I'm sure that will really impress your recruits. Did they show you the guest bathrooms on that tour?"

Correct.

[Muskie]

Schmidt Fieldhouse is available I assume?

[muskiefan82]

How many people can St. X accommodate?

[D-West & PO-Z]

How many people can St. X accommodate?

More than UC draws. Think we found a winner!

[blobfan]

Well, the Enquirer has reported that UC officials toured the Gardens a week or so ago, but then the same article also said they toured US Bank Arena. And wasn't there a thread on here some time ago that hinted that they even toured Cintas Center. I'm sure they are exploring all options.

Yes! Oh please yes! I would so love this. It's probably too soon to make a comment about YTGs head exploding (cause we don't LITERALLY want that; just figuratively), but I would love to hear the increasing laughter from the local press as game after game he blames the negative environment at Cintas for poor play. Cause, you know, it's unsafe for them to play on our campus. They'd probably sell more tickets to bored students looking for something to do.

[xubrew]

I wonder if NKU would be interested in letting them play at BB&T arena?

That may actually be their best option, although I have no idea of whether or not they're actually considering it. It's the right size, it's not hard to get to, and of all the arenas they're looking at it is by far the nicest. Chances are they could get a very reasonable rate.


Are you kidding me? SucKS wants to act like they are "big time" but can't or won't even pay up the money to play in US Blank? Can you imagine Georgetown saying that The Verizon Center "wanted too much money" to play a season there?

What a little brother the Borecats are now.

I obviously have no first hand experience, but it is my understanding that US Bank Arena is impossible to deal with. The Verizon Center probably doesn't want too much money from Georgetown, but it is very easy for me to imagine that US Bank does.

[Cheesehead]

That may actually be their best option, although I have no idea of whether or not they're actually considering it. It's the right size, it's not hard to get to, and of all the arenas they're looking at it is by far the nicest. Chances are they could get a very reasonable rate.



I obviously have no first hand experience, but it is my understanding that US Bank Arena is impossible to deal with. The Verizon Center probably doesn't want too much money from Georgetown, but it is very easy for me to imagine that US Bank does.

One would think US Bank would relish the opportunity for some income considering their main tenant is a low level minor league hockey team. US Bank should be imploded and re-built (but only w/ private money) ... which doesn't seem likely.

[Masterofreality]

Rather than overhauling 5/3, why don't they just haul it over?

[THRILLHOUSE]

Zach Wells ‏@WellsZach 1m1 minute ago
The #Bearcats will have four options for temporary homes while 5/3 Arena renovated: NKU, the Gardens, Cintas Center and US Bank Arena.

(not really news though considering those are basically the only arenas in Cincy/NKY)

[XUFan09]

Zach Wells ‏@WellsZach 1m1 minute ago
The #Bearcats will have four options for temporary homes while 5/3 Arena renovated: NKU, the Gardens, Cintas Center and US Bank Arena.

(not really news though considering those are basically the only arenas in Cincy/NKY)
It more falls under the category of "obvious things you didn't think of." I hadn't thought about UC playing home games at Cintas lol. Won't happen because of pride and because any bored, possibly drunk Xavier student could walk across the parking lot to heckle at UC games. Lord knows, they never sell out.

[xudash]

Conversely, imagine that logo sitting in the middle of a basketball court in our building.

Damn, I love capitalism - - "a capitalist will sell you the rope you use to hang him" or something like that.

[X-band '01]

Cincinnati Business-Courier (http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/08/13/exclusive-uc-details-arena-renovation-timeline.html)

What is now official is that UC will play one more season in Fifth Third Arena before renovations take place during the 2016-17 season. At this time, UC would play either downtown at USBank Arena or the Cincinnati Gardens. Construction should be complete in either September or October 2017 (in time for the 2017-18 season).

Price tag is expected to be in the neighborhood of $70 million; capacity will be reduced to 11,476 as an extra level of suites/club seating is added.

[paulxu]

Hah! Back to the Gardens for the Shootout.

[coasterville95]

We need U.S. bank arena to do their renovation the same year. Gardens here they come. Then we can go there for the Crosstown game and give them shit about how they used to give us shit about playing there.

[Snipe]

$70 million to renovate it? That is the State efficiently spending money.

[sirthought]

Then we can go there for the Crosstown game and give them shit about how they used to give us shit about playing there.

It's a good thing you've moved past it.

[coasterville95]

All in good fun, I assure you. Who doesn't like to see their in city competition suffer a minor setback.

Even if it does look like they may get a decent arena out of it.

[casualfan]

$70 million to renovate it? That is the State efficiently spending money.

The state isn't spending a dime. It's all privately funded.

[Masterofreality]

The state isn't spending a dime. It's all privately funded.

RIIIIIIIIIIIght!!!

Let's all go visit Santa Ono's office. I'm sure he has a bunch of jars stuffed with cash and all labeled for different things. One jar says Fifth/Third private money. One Jar says Nippert Stadium private money. One jar says Mick Cronin overpay cash. One jar says Taxpayer money for only proper expenditures for Taxpayer Money.

Or (B)- maybe there is just a pile of cash with no trace of where it originated from.

I'll take B Alex.

[xubrew]

$70 million to renovate it? That is the State efficiently spending money.

Paul Brown Stadium is the city efficiently spending money. UC doesn't have the leverage of threatening to move.

[Cheesehead]

They have 15 million raised out of projected 80 plus million cost for the renovation (private fuinds)

CINCINNATI (FOX19) -
The UC Board of Trustees has approved an interim funding request to continue Fifth Third Arena renovation plans.

After hearing a presentation from athletic director Mike Bohn and head basketball coach Mick Cronin, the Board of Trustees green-lit an interim $2.2 million funding request to allow for completion of documents in the design development phase. This will allow the Populous/Moody Nolan design team to remain on its current schedule with an anticipated construction start in March 2016.

Proposed improvements to the 26-year old facility, built in 1989 and originally named the Myrl H. Shoemaker Center, include the creation of a 360-degree seating bowl, new restroom and concession facilities, a new upper-level concourse with its own fan amenities, expanded food and beverage options and a new main entrance and plaza with centralized ticketing and guest services.

The renovated arena also will feature expanded premium seating options, including a courtside club, arena club and concourse club as well as enclosed suites, loge seating, a new Bearcats Lounge and super suites.

A total funding request for the anticipated $85 million, privately-funded project will be submitted to the board for review and approval in the next 90 days.

“Today is an exciting day for the University of Cincinnati athletics and the #HottestCollegeinAmerica,” Director of Athletics Mike Bohn said. “We are a living in a time of seismic transformation at UC and we are proud to be at the epicenter. We have some work to do to build on a successful silent phase of fundraising which has carried us to this point. Moving forward, we will engage current donors, sponsors, fans and identify new groups who want to be a part of our dynamic efforts to build the Bearcats brand nationwide.”

Men’s and women’s basketball and volleyball home events will be conducted off campus during the 2016-17 season while construction is underway. Bohn told FOX19 Now at a previous date the following venues are being considered - Cincinnati Gardens, U.S. Bank Arena, BB&T Arena on NKU's campus and Cintas Center. No decisions have been made on playing sites for the 2016-17 season.

Fifth Third Arena is scheduled to reopen in October 2017.

[xudash]

So:


$85 million project - - that is beyond me; anyone in construction care to opine on that figure.

$15 million raised - - that is less than 18% of the target need, but I guess that's enough to grant an "interim funding request."
Here's the award winning line: A total funding request for the anticipated $85 million, privately-funded project will be submitted to the board for review and approval in the next 90 days. I suppose that means they intend to bag the remaining $70 million in the next 90 days....Bohn's statement: "We have some work to do to build on a successful silent phase of fundraising which has carried us to this point. Moving forward, we will engage current donors, sponsors, fans and identify new groups who want to be a part of our dynamic efforts to build the Bearcats brand nationwide.”

[xubrew]

So:


$85 million project - - that is beyond me; anyone in construction care to opine on that figure.

$15 million raised - - that is less than 18% of the target need, but I guess that's enough to grant an "interim funding request."
Here's the award winning line: A total funding request for the anticipated $85 million, privately-funded project will be submitted to the board for review and approval in the next 90 days. I suppose that means they intend to bag the remaining $70 million in the next 90 days....Bohn's statement: "We have some work to do to build on a successful silent phase of fundraising which has carried us to this point. Moving forward, we will engage current donors, sponsors, fans and identify new groups who want to be a part of our dynamic efforts to build the Bearcats brand nationwide.”


They don't need to raise $70 million in ninety days. They need a plan as to how they will raise the money as the project continues. Nothing more. Well, I guess it has to be a convincing and sensible plan in order for it to be approved, but they don't need to have all the cash in hand.

[nuts4xu]

$85 million seems like a lot of money to renovate that place. UC just spent $85 million to renovate their football stadium, which potentially can generate a great deal more money on that type of investment. It cost Xavier $46 million ($63 million in 2015 dollars) to build the Cintas Center from scratch. BB&T arena on NKU's campus cost $64 million in 2008 (or $70.1 million in 2015 dollars).

The renovations at 5th 3rd will completely transform that arena, but it seems that investment could be better spent if they built an 11,000 seat arena from the ground up and did the entire place right.

[casualfan]

$85 million seems like a lot of money to renovate that place. UC just spent $85 million to renovate their football stadium, which potentially can generate a great deal more money on that type of investment. It cost Xavier $46 million ($63 million in 2015 dollars) to build the Cintas Center from scratch. BB&T arena on NKU's campus cost $64 million in 2008 (or $70.1 million in 2015 dollars).

The renovations at 5th 3rd will completely transform that arena, but it seems that investment could be better spent if they built an 11,000 seat arena from the ground up and did the entire place right.

Where exactly would they put this new arena?

[STL_XUfan]

$85 million seems like a lot of money to renovate that place. UC just spent $85 million to renovate their football stadium, which potentially can generate a great deal more money on that type of investment. It cost Xavier $46 million ($63 million in 2015 dollars) to build the Cintas Center from scratch. BB&T arena on NKU's campus cost $64 million in 2008 (or $70.1 million in 2015 dollars).

The renovations at 5th 3rd will completely transform that arena, but it seems that investment could be better spent if they built an 11,000 seat arena from the ground up and did the entire place right.

I am not sure the underlying cause, but stadium prices have also skyrocketed since Cintas was built (Busch Stadium cost $365 million in 2006 while Target field Cost $545 million 4 years later). I doubt we could still build the same arena for $63 million today.

[Cheesehead]

I hope for 85 million, all the seats actually have backs on them!

[xubrew]

I hate the term old school, because I hate thinking of myself as old, but....

Stadiums of all kinds cost way too much, yet we still pay the high costs to build them and make them way too plush and way too pretentious. It's ridiculous. Club seats, super club seats, scoreboards that cost more than most homes cost, ribbon boards, hi-def jumbotrons, seats that recline, aquariums that go around the entire field (the Marlins actually have this), and a bunch of shit that isn't anywhere close to being necessary.

This is what is required..

1) a field or court

2) a scoreboard that shows the score and the time remaining

3) seats or bleachers.

4) beer

THAT'S IT!! Games were no less enjoyable when stadiums were more practical than pretentious. Tickets were also affordable. Now, they're in the hundreds of dollars because we need to pay for the aquariums that go around the entire ballpark, or the high def video board so you can watch the game on TV instead of just looking at the field or court.

[X-band '01]

I hate the term old school, because I hate thinking of myself as old, but....

Stadiums of all kinds cost way too much, yet we still pay the high costs to build them and make them way too plush and way too pretentious. It's ridiculous. Club seats, super club seats, scoreboards that cost more than most homes cost, ribbon boards, hi-def jumbotrons, seats that recline, aquariums that go around the entire field (the Marlins actually have this), and a bunch of shit that isn't anywhere close to being necessary.

This is what is required..

1) a field or court

2) a scoreboard that shows the score and the time remaining

3) seats or bleachers.

4) beer

THAT'S IT!! Games were no less enjoyable when stadiums were more practical than pretentious. Tickets were also affordable. Now, they're in the hundreds of dollars because we need to pay for the aquariums that go around the entire ballpark, or the high def video board so you can watch the game on TV instead of just looking at the field or court.

News-Press.com: Colleges Facing Shrinking Student Fan Bases (http://www.news-press.com/story/sports/college/fgcu/2015/08/22/college-sports-battling-shrinking-student-support/32218445/)

In one sense, you're right - we're getting old. The reason you're seeing aquariums and swimming pools in stadiums is because they are examples of attractions that you can only experience in the ballpark/stadium. This helps (but doesn't totally explain) to figure out why interest in sporting events goes up but attendance goes down.

Another major thing you did not list - WiFi access. It's becoming a dealbreaker especially for younger students and fans who have their faces buried in their smartphones and tablets during athletic events. Apparently checking in to Cintas Center/Paul Brown Stadium/Great American Ball Park is a must on social media for people (read: millennials) nowadays.

[D-West & PO-Z]

News-Press.com: Colleges Facing Shrinking Student Fan Bases (http://www.news-press.com/story/sports/college/fgcu/2015/08/22/college-sports-battling-shrinking-student-support/32218445/)

In one sense, you're right - we're getting old. The reason you're seeing aquariums and swimming pools in stadiums is because they are examples of attractions that you can only experience in the ballpark/stadium. This helps (but doesn't totally explain) to figure out why interest in sporting events goes up but attendance goes down.

Another major thing you did not list - WiFi access. It's becoming a dealbreaker especially for younger students and fans who have their faces buried in their smartphones and tablets during athletic events. Apparently checking in to Cintas Center/Paul Brown Stadium/Great American Ball Park is a must on social media for people (read: millennials) nowadays.

Yeah, all that stuff isnt necessary for the fanatics of a team, ie. all of us, but it is essential to get casual fans in the stadium. The interest in sports is going up and attendance down because the at home viewing experience is like never before. HD crystal clear picture, channels with every game on, fantasy football tracker running at the bottom, and of course as always cheap food and booze and nice bathroom in the next room. The experience for most these days has to be more than just going to watch the game.

[Masterofreality]

I plan on suing the school in Clifton for false advertising- for $85 million.

#HottestCollegeInAmerica is totally invalid, untrue and inane.

[xudash]

They don't need to raise $70 million in ninety days. They need a plan as to how they will raise the money as the project continues. Nothing more. Well, I guess it has to be a convincing and sensible plan in order for it to be approved, but they don't need to have all the cash in hand.

How familiar are you with the tenants of project finance?

[xubrew]

How familiar are you with the tenants of project finance?

Pretty much zero. What I'm familiar with is what university boards of trustees tend to approve when it comes to athletics facilities. The board isn't expecting them to have it paid for in full. They' have $15 million in hand, and have a plan (presumably) to raise the rest through private donations. Chances are that's getting the green light. In fact, I think getting the board's approval is a mere formality at this point.

[xudash]

Pretty much zero. What I'm familiar with is what university boards of trustees tend to approve when it comes to athletics facilities. The board isn't expecting them to have it paid for in full. They' have $15 million in hand, and have a plan (presumably) to raise the rest through private donations. Chances are that's getting the green light. In fact, I think getting the board's approval is a mere formality at this point.

I'm not trying to argue with you or be snide about this, but how familiar are you with the workings of a Board of Trustees of a University?

The board isn't expecting them to have it paid in full? Okay. Does the board have some expectation for the sequence of funding as that must schedule out against the completion of progress schedule on the construction side? They "presumably" have a plan for raising money?

Four guys are sitting in a conference room about 90 days after the first shovel goes into the dirt - UC's president and chief fundraiser are two of them, UC's lead banker is in there, and the guy in charge of the construction project for the general contractor is in the room.

The project manager announces that they have achieved the 50% milestone. He turns to Ono and says that will be another $25 million. Ono turns to his lead fundraiser and says get out the checkbook. The fundraiser looks at Ono cross eyed (they haven't raised it yet). He then announces out loud that they are short on their funding plan.

Within 2 seconds, The banker gets up, explaining that he just figured out that he was double booked for another meeting.

[xubrew]

I'm not trying to argue with you or be snide about this, but how familiar are you with the workings of a Board of Trustees of a University?

The board isn't expecting them to have it paid in full? Okay. Does the board have some expectation for the sequence of funding as that must schedule out against the completion of progress schedule on the construction side? They "presumably" have a plan for raising money?

VERY familiar.

For starters, they're not asking for any significant funding. They're basically saying they're going to raise their own funds. When there is a proposal before a board of trustees that involves building athletic facilities with money they plan to raise themselves, the answer is yes. I don't know specifically what UC's plan is, but if their proposal involves having already raised $15 million for this specific project, and projections as to how and when they'll have the rest of it, then the board will say yes. They always do. Why wouldn't they?? Not raising the $85 million still doesn't necessarily cost the university anything (depending on what kinds of contracts they enter in to). It just means they have scale back their renovations, or delay them until they have raised it.

People drive new cars off the lot without having all the money in hand. Getting athletic projects approved based on projected revenue and fundraising isn't uncommon either.

[xudash]

VERY familiar.

For starters, they're not asking for any significant funding. They're basically saying they're going to raise their own funds. When there is a proposal before a board of trustees that involves building athletic facilities with money they plan to raise themselves, the answer is yes. I don't know specifically what UC's plan is, but if their proposal involves having already raised $15 million for this specific project, and projections as to how and when they'll have the rest of it, then the board will say yes. They always do. Why wouldn't they?? Not raising the $85 million still doesn't necessarily cost the university anything (depending on what kinds of contracts they enter in to). It just means they have scale back their renovations.

People drive new cars off the lot without having all the money in hand. Getting athletic projects approved based on projected revenue and fundraising isn't uncommon either.

Wow.

People Drive cars off car lots having secured financing to do that when they do not otherwise pay for them in cash (ignoring leases here).


Pro forma income statements can be used to help justify a project, but a sources and uses statement comes in pretty handy, too.

Finally, I suppose the Plan SB (scale back) is in place, because I would hate to go into Plan A ($85mm) with no options.

Now, if you're suggesting they'll finance themselves partially through box income and seat licensing, then okay, but as payments that will follow whatever the upfront package becomes. I suspect the builder will accept progress payments for construction, but they aren't going to wait around for a stream of payments from revenue sources; they aren't financing this thing.

Raise as much money as possible, self-finance the balance from one of their endowments, and repay the endowment over time through the revenue streams.

[xubrew]

Dash, it seems like you're expecting that the BOT won't approve this. I don't know why. Everything seems to indicate that it's practically a done deal already, even to the point that they're seeking out another place to play while it's being renovated.

Simply put, the reason I think the board will say yes is because they're not asking the board for $85 million dollars and then trying to convince them that it's worth that kind of investment. They're telling the board that they intend to raise $85 million and spend it on these renovations. To which I think the response will be "Okay, great!!"

[casualfan]

Brew,

You're partly right on the funds they need to raise in the next 90 day. They do not need the full $85 million. They do need to get to $40 million.

So with $15 already raised the school is asking them to come up with an additional $25 million in the next 90 days to keep moving forward.

I don't know why anyone would expect their BOT to shut this down. If you read the head of the BOT's comments yesterday when he told them to raise the additional $25 mil he said he fully expects it to happen.

The remaining $45 million or so will be financed using revenue bonds.

The biggest disappointment for me here is that it likely means any renovation plans for US Bank are dead in the water. Portune said as much yesterday.

I recently moved downtown and I was really hoping they could get that reno done for some of the entertainment (i.e. concerts) it would have been able to draw. As it is most big acts skip us on their tours.

[Cheesehead]

I plan on suing the school in Clifton for false advertising- for $85 million.

#HottestCollegeInAmerica is totally invalid, untrue and inane.

“It’s lewd, lascivious, salacious, outrageous!”

[Juice]

All of this investment in Nippert and 5/3 Arena will be useless if they keep coming up with dumb ass ideas like this:

Joe Schad
‏@schadjoe
Cincinnati’s Tommy Tuberville said he will consider withholding some cost of attendance money for off the field shortcomings/violations.

[JTG]

All I can say is, Who gives a shit ?
Did they come to any of your houses and ask you to foot the bill ?

[X-band '01]

All of this investment in Nippert and 5/3 Arena will be useless if they keep coming up with dumb ass ideas like this:

Joe Schad
‏@schadjoe
Cincinnati’s Tommy Tuberville said he will consider withholding some cost of attendance money for off the field shortcomings/violations.

He wouldn't be the first coach to take such an ill-advised approach:

CBSSports.com - Virginia Tech AD Puts to Rest Idea of Hokies Coaches Fining Players (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25281618/virginia-tech-ad-puts-to-rest-idea-of-hokies-coaches-fining-players)

[Juice]

He wouldn't be the first coach to take such an ill-advised approach:

CBSSports.com - Virginia Tech AD Puts to Rest Idea of Hokies Coaches Fining Players (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25281618/virginia-tech-ad-puts-to-rest-idea-of-hokies-coaches-fining-players)

Yeah I saw that yesterday and Whit Babcock (stupid name that I forgot about but remember again) said that they would put an end to that. So of course UC sees what a debacle that was for Va Tech yesterday and decides that maybe it is a good idea. Tubberville is a jackass. He deserves all the bad things in life.

[xubrew]

All of this investment in Nippert and 5/3 Arena will be useless if they keep coming up with dumb ass ideas like this:

Joe Schad
‏@schadjoe
Cincinnati’s Tommy Tuberville said he will consider withholding some cost of attendance money for off the field shortcomings/violations.

While considering this, he may want to take into account that doing so will likely result in him having to find a new career. Coaches do not have the authority to cut or reduce a player's financial aid. The cost of living stipend falls under that category. Fining players or withholding it would be a huge violation.

[Cheesehead]

All I can say is, Who gives a shit ?
Did they come to any of your houses and ask you to foot the bill ?

Lighten up Francis. I only posted update as it's relative to college basketball discussion but it doesn't really affect me either way. I am glad they are using private money. I will be at Nippert on Friday night. So, I will get my first glimpse of the newly renovated stadium.

[xubrew]

All of this investment in Nippert and 5/3 Arena will be useless if they keep coming up with dumb ass ideas like this:

Joe Schad
‏@schadjoe
Cincinnati’s Tommy Tuberville said he will consider withholding some cost of attendance money for off the field shortcomings/violations.

While considering this, he may want to take into account that doing so will likely result in him having to find a new career. Coaches do not have the authority to cut or reduce a player's financial aid. The cost of living stipend falls under that category. Fining players or withholding it would be a huge violation. It's amazing to me how stupid coaches can be while thinking they're so smart.

[Juice]

While considering this, he may want to take into account that doing so will likely result in him having to find a new career. Coaches do not have the authority to cut or reduce a player's financial aid. The cost of living stipend falls under that category. Fining players or withholding it would be a huge violation. It's amazing to me how stupid coaches can be while thinking they're so smart.

Besides being a violation, I find it to be horribly immoral and also an idiotic idea for recruiting.

[casualfan]

speaking of the COA stuff does anyone know if/when we will be starting that?

[X-band '01]

speaking of the COA stuff does anyone know if/when we will be starting that?

Not sure when Xavier or other Big East schools will begin with the stipends.

[Cheesehead]

While considering this, he may want to take into account that doing so will likely result in him having to find a new career. Coaches do not have the authority to cut or reduce a player's financial aid. The cost of living stipend falls under that category. Fining players or withholding it would be a huge violation. It's amazing to me how stupid coaches can be while thinking they're so smart.

From ESPN:

Cincinnati senior associate director of athletics Maggie McKinley, a voting member on NCAA regulation and overseer of the school's compliance office, said the language used in players' grant-in-aids expressly gives the school the ability to reduce or terminate the financial assistance if there are violations of department policy or student code of conduct policy.

McKinley said other schools are closely examining the language in their grant-in-aids with the advent of players receiving thousands more starting this year. McKinley said Cincinnati players receive $5,504 to $7,018 per year in cost of attendance dollars, with the higher figure being among the highest, if not the highest, in the country.

McKinley noted that coaches will have clear and consistent policies that must be clearly communicated to their teams and that financial reduction decisions will be reviewed by an oversight committee.

Apparently they do have the authority.....say tuned

[xubrew]

From ESPN:

Cincinnati senior associate director of athletics Maggie McKinley, a voting member on NCAA regulation and overseer of the school's compliance office, said the language used in players' grant-in-aids expressly gives the school the ability to reduce or terminate the financial assistance if there are violations of department policy or student code of conduct policy.

McKinley said other schools are closely examining the language in their grant-in-aids with the advent of players receiving thousands more starting this year. McKinley said Cincinnati players receive $5,504 to $7,018 per year in cost of attendance dollars, with the higher figure being among the highest, if not the highest, in the country.

McKinley noted that coaches will have clear and consistent policies that must be clearly communicated to their teams and that financial reduction decisions will be reviewed by an oversight committee.

Apparently they do have the authority.....say tuned

Either Maggie McKinley has completely lost her mind (possible, but not likely) or the article is taking what she said out of context to insinuate something that she didn't really mean.

Schools can reduce or terminate financial assistants, but only on a year to year basis, and it cannot be for an athletically related reason (at least not technically). If a school opts to give someone a four year scholarship (which is allowed now) and not a one year renewable scholarship, then I'm not even sure they can reduce it at all. So, yes, it's allowed, but they kind of left out the conditions under which it is allowed. You can't just fine players and deduct that amount from their monthly scholarship checks. I have a very hard time believing that's what she meant to say, even though the article makes it look that way.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Either Maggie McKinley has completely lost her mind (possible, but not likely) or the article is taking what she said out of context to insinuate something that she didn't really mean.

Schools can reduce or terminate financial assistants, but only on a year to year basis, and it cannot be for an athletically related reason (at least not technically). If a school opts to give someone a four year scholarship (which is allowed now) and not a one year renewable scholarship, then I'm not even sure they can reduce it at all. So, yes, it's allowed, but they kind of left out the conditions under which it is allowed. You can't just fine players and deduct that amount from their monthly scholarship checks. I have a very hard time believing that's what she meant to say, even though the article makes it look that way.

Not saying you are wrong but do you have an proof they cant? Any links? Because that is exactly how the article makes it sound, that they indeed can.

[Juice]

Not saying you are wrong but do you have an proof they cant? Any links? Because that is exactly how the article makes it sound, that they indeed can.


According to a sample financial aid agreement, aid can not decrease because of performance.

My financial aid will not be increased, reduced, or canceled during the period of the award on the basis of my athletic ability, performance or contribution to my team’s success; because of an injury or illness that prevents me from participating in athletics; or for any other athletic reason. Further, NCAA Bylaw 15.3.3.1 states that athletic aid shall not be awarded in excess of one academic year.

But NCAA rules expert John Infante says taking money out of an athlete's COA stipend is allowed.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/8/27/9214641/ncaa-athletes-cost-of-attendance-fine

[X-band '01]

We do need to make one important distinction - UC is only discussing reduction/termination of COA stipends as it relates to off-the-field troubles, NOT on-field performance.

[Juice]

We do need to make one important distinction - UC is only discussing reduction/termination of COA stipends as it relates to off-the-field troubles, NOT on-field performance.

Right, because the former is not against the rules and the latter is. But it doesn't make it any less stupid and any less bullshit that you're taking money from college kids that you claim aren't professionals. F*ck any coach/program who does this.

[D-West & PO-Z]

We do need to make one important distinction - UC is only discussing reduction/termination of COA stipends as it relates to off-the-field troubles, NOT on-field performance.


Right, because the former is not against the rules and the latter is. But it doesn't make it any less stupid and any less bullshit that you're taking money from college kids that you claim aren't professionals. F*ck any coach/program who does this.

Yeah, but it is allowed for off the field issues or rules violations then? I understand that it is not for on field performance but it appears to be allowed as, was stated by the UC person, for off field issues?

[xubrew]

Not saying you are wrong but do you have an proof they cant? Any links? Because that is exactly how the article makes it sound, that they indeed can.

I can't link it, but it's all over Chapter 15 of the compliance manual. There are always exceptions. There are situations where a school can cut or eliminate someone's aid (like if a student lied about their age or identity, or was guilty of a serious crime, or something like that), but not for the reasons the coaches are wanting to do it. I know some people who work in NCAA compliance, and they were laughing at what these coaches were saying.




15.3.4.3.2 Decrease Not Permitted. An institution may not decrease a prospective student-athlete’s
or a student-athlete’s financial aid from the time the prospective student-athlete or student-athlete signs the
financial aid award letter until the conclusion of the period set forth in the financial aid agreement, except
under the conditions set forth in Bylaw 15.3.4.2. (Adopted: 1/11/94, Revised: 4/2/03 effective 8/1/03, 8/7/14)

15.3.5.2 Reduction or Cancellation Not Permitted—During the Period of the Award. [A] Institutional
financial aid based in any degree on athletics ability may not be reduced or canceled during the period of
its award: (Adopted: 1/16/93, Revised: 1/11/94, 12/11/07, 1/14/08, 8/7/14, 1/17/15 effective 8/1/15)
(a) On the basis of a student-athlete’s athletics ability, performance or contribution to a team’s success;
(b) Because of an injury, illness, or physical or mental medical condition (except as permitted pursuant to
Bylaw 15.3.5.1); or
(c) For any other athletics reason.
15.3.5.2.1 Athletically Related Condition Prohibition. [A] An institution may not set forth an athletically
related condition (e.g., financial aid contingent upon specified performance or playing a specific
position) that would permit the institution to reduce or cancel the student-athlete’s financial aid during the
period of the award if the conditions are not satisfied. (Adopted: 1/16/93, Revised: 1/11/94, 8/7/14)
15.3.5.2.2 Decrease Not Permitted. [A] An institution may not decrease a prospective student-athlete’s
or a student-athlete’s financial aid from the time the prospective student-athlete or student-athlete signs the
financial aid award letter until the conclusion of the period set forth in the financial aid agreement, except
under the conditions set forth in Bylaw 15.3.5.1. (Adopted: 1/11/94, Revised: 4/2/03 effective 8/1/03, 8/7/14)
15.3.5.3 Reduction or Nonrenewal Not Permitted—After the Period of the Award. [A] If a studentathlete
receives athletically related financial aid in the academic year of his or her initial full-time enrollment at
the certifying institution, the following factors shall not be considered in the reduction or nonrenewal of such aid
for the following academic year or years of the student-athlete’s five-year period of eligibility: (Adopted: 1/17/15
effective 8/1/15)
(a) A student-athlete’s athletics ability, performance or contribution to a team’s success (e.g., financial aid
contingent upon specified performance or playing a specific position);
(b) An injury, illness, or physical or mental medical condition; or

[xubrew]

Yunno what?? Let them do it. Let the coaches fine the players. It will help us identify who the jackass coaches are, and make it easier on all the future players.

[X-band '01]

This is what Virginia Tech originally planned as far as fines for their team:

LostLetterman.com - Virginia Tech (http://lostlettermen.com/virginia-tech-fined-players-for-missing-breakfast-among-other-things/)

$15 fines for being disruptive in class, $50 fines for dirty dorm rooms, what a bunch of ruffians the Hokies were perceived to be by their coaches!

[X-band '01]

Exactly what these fines have to do with 5/3 Arena renovation, I have no idea. It's been a nice thread hijack.

[xubrew]

Exactly what these fines have to do with 5/3 Arena renovation, I have no idea. It's been a nice thread hijack.

It's one of their fundraising methods.

[waggy]

It's one of their fundraising methods.


Juice will turn to vapor.

[X-band '01]

speaking of the COA stuff does anyone know if/when we will be starting that?

ESPN.com COA database (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/13549583/ncaa-coaches-believe-cost-attendance-allowance-recruiting-advantage)

Per this table, Xavier will have COA totaling $2,300 this season. Here's how it compares to other Big East schools:

Villanova - $2,460
Creighton - $3,846
Butler - $2,550

Dayton also had a COA figure at $2,884.

[xubrew]

ESPN.com COA database (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/13549583/ncaa-coaches-believe-cost-attendance-allowance-recruiting-advantage)

Per this table, Xavier will have COA totaling $2,300 this season. Here's how it compares to other Big East schools:

Villanova - $2,460
Creighton - $3,846
Butler - $2,550

Dayton also had a COA figure at $2,884.

WHAT THE...???

The COA is being determined via the school's financial aid office, and is supposed to be proportionate to what it costs to live in the city the school is in.

How the hell is Omaha more expensive than Philadelphia, Cincinnati and Indianapolis?? There's no way.

I'm not a conspiracy theorists, but I can't help but wonder if some schools are just deciding to pay out less than what they could be allowed to pay out. It does not cost more to live in Dayton than it does to live in Cincinnati. I've lived both places.

[muskiefan82]

It does not cost more to live in Dayton than it does to live in Cincinnati. I've lived both places.

Unless you count the way it sucks the life out of you as a cost. Then Dayton is much, much more expensive.

[paulxu]

It costs $2300 to live in Norwood.
It costs $6082 to live in Clifton.

[xubrew]

It costs $2300 to live in Norwood.
It costs $6082 to live in Clifton.

What a difference three miles makes.

[casualfan]

What a difference three miles makes.

I'm shocked ours is as low as it is.

Most schools include multiple trips home (i.e. summer break, christmas break, etc.) in the COA calculation. With CVG being what it is I figured ours would have been much higher.

I was reading an interesting article (i can no longer find it) from last week talking about how the schools with the highest COA are in places with the worst airports for high fares.

Having said that, with us having private tuition number to contend with it makes sense to try and lowball that number.Remember that the COA number is what the school tells parents it will cost them, above and beyond room and board, for little johnny to go there.

[Kahns Krazy]

Right, because the former is not against the rules and the latter is. But it doesn't make it any less stupid and any less bullshit that you're taking money from college kids that you claim aren't professionals. F*ck any coach/program who does this.

"giving less money" is fundamentally different than "taking money".

If it's laid out in advance, then it's a contract. F*ck any player/student who can't live within the terms of the contract they agreed to.

[Juice]

"giving less money" is fundamentally different than "taking money".

If it's laid out in advance, then it's a contract. F*ck any player/student who can't live within the terms of the contract they agreed to.

So you're ok with fining players when the NCAA, school presidents, ADs, coaches, etc have all said are not professionals but then are treated as such when it benefits with institution? And cost of attendance is part of the scholarship. So essentially the school is fining them and now the student athlete has to make up the lost money in what it costs to attend that school. And if a contract is broken by either side, there is usually a system for complaints to be raised. Would that student be allowed to raise it against the school without getting their scholarship revoked and/or be heard by an unbiased system? I doubt it.

[paulxu]

Apparently the Muskies fly in and out of Lunken. I know Sean Miller did.

[94GRAD]

Apparently the Muskies fly in and out of Lunken. I know Sean Miller did.

I think they mean the cost to fly home during the summer/breaks. Have to go through CVG to do that.

[casualfan]

I think they mean the cost to fly home during the summer/breaks. Have to go through CVG to do that.

Correct. That's why you'll see a range of the COA number for some universities. Kids who can drive home or fly home cheaper will get less than others.

[Milhouse]

I may be wrong- but doesn't that come directly from athletic department? They've been funding those long before COA I believe.

[XUMIOH12]

I haven't read too much about a lot of the COA stuff, but any student-athlete that can't live off of $3,000 or so per year is living way too large for being in college. If the COA is just essentially spending money for costs outside of tuition/room & board etc; than they will be getting plenty.

I would say I probably only spent a total of around $5,000 or so throughout my entire 4 years at Xavier.

[paulxu]

I think they mean the cost to fly home during the summer/breaks. Have to go through CVG to do that.

BJ, my sarcasm font was turned off. My bad.
I'll be back in a couple of weeks.

[casualfan]

I haven't read too much about a lot of the COA stuff, but any student-athlete that can't live off of $3,000 or so per year is living way too large for being in college. If the COA is just essentially spending money for costs outside of tuition/room & board etc; than they will be getting plenty.

I would say I probably only spent a total of around $5,000 or so throughout my entire 4 years at Xavier.

Where did you grow up?

[xubrew]

I wish both sides of the argument on whether or not players should get a stipend would abandon basing their opinion on whether or not they need it.

Needing something and deserving something are not the same thing. Everyone reading this probably has things they don't need, but are still richly deserving of. I'd go so far to say that there are people who need things that they probably don't deserve. So, to me it's not about need. I wish those in favor of the stipend would stop arguing that they need it because, quite frankly, they don't. I also wish those who are against it would find some other reason other than them not needing it. If that's you're only reason for being against it, then get rid of all the things you don't need and move into a single bedroom efficiency apartment.

Back in 2011, I was STRONGLY in favor of the $2000 cost of living stipend that was proposed. It was instantly voted down. Now, we have autonomy and schools are basically being allowed to determine through their financial aid office how much is needed for cost of living. Eastern Kentucky has determined that their players need way more than Xavier seems to think their players need. UC feels the cost of living just three miles away is $4000 more.

I can't say I'm a fan of this because if schools are allowed to determine what the stipend is going to be, it could potentially create a bidding war. I could see it being a problem that we pay out less than our competitors, and even our non competitors like Eastern Kentucky.

This is my apprehension. As more and more teams compete for players, (sarcasm font) financial aid offices will suddenly and coincidentally decide that players need bigger stipends for the cost of living. Call it a hunch. Nice going on everyone's part!! (/sarcasm font). This could have been avoided had we all been smarter four years ago.

I must footnote PaulXU on the idea of a sarcasm font.

[XUMIOH12]

Where did you grow up?

Detroit. Which obviously made for minimal travel expenses, but 11 of our 14 players would have no more than a 6 hour drive to get home. Not saying the guys don't deserve to get any amount of money, but what they do get should be more than enough to cover any expenses.

[casualfan]

Detroit. Which obviously made for minimal travel expenses, but 11 of our 14 players would have no more than a 6 hour drive to get home. Not saying the guys don't deserve to get any amount of money, but what they do get should be more than enough to cover any expenses.

Are you just assuming they all have cars? That's probably not a fair assumption for the university to make.

And for those who don't a lot of places won't even rent you a car until you're 21 or 25 (I know most enterprise locations won't).

[Cheesehead]

You guys really f-ed up the thread I started. JERKS! :laugh::laugh:

[X-band '01]

Surely we can fix this thread to 5/3 Arena and COA Overhaul. Right Xeus?

[XUMIOH12]

Are you just assuming they all have cars? That's probably not a fair assumption for the university to make.

And for those who don't a lot of places won't even rent you a car until you're 21 or 25 (I know most enterprise locations won't).

I never had a car throughout college and didn't have much trouble finding a way home when needed.

If the COA must include airfare to and from home than it would make things a bit more expensive, but it doesn't seem like that's the case.

[casualfan]

I never had a car throughout college and didn't have much trouble finding a way home when needed.

If the COA must include airfare to and from home than it would make things a bit more expensive, but it doesn't seem like that's the case.

Can you elaborate? Where did you live, how did you get home, how long did it take, etc.

The COA doesn't have to include airfare, but there's no reason it shouldn't. Traveling home is an expense you're asking kids to incur when you recruit them to come to your school and traveling by plane is the option that, by a pretty wide margin, makes the most sense in most cases.

It would take Myles Davis roughly 10 hours to drive home from Xavier, and that's assuming he either has a car or would be able to rent one.

I just don't see why they shouldn't build the cost of flying a kid home a few times a year into the COA.

[Juice]

Can you elaborate? Where did you live, how did you get home, how long did it take, etc.

The COA doesn't have to include airfare, but there's no reason it shouldn't. Traveling home is an expense you're asking kids to incur when you recruit them to come to your school and traveling by plane is the option that, by a pretty wide margin, makes the most sense in most cases.

It would take Myles Davis roughly 10 hours to drive home from Xavier, and that's assuming he either has a car or would be able to rent one.

I just don't see why they shouldn't build the cost of flying a kid home a few times a year into the COA.

Because they're getting a FULL scholarship, and I didn't get one of those when I was in skewl, rabble rabble rabble. They're spoiled.

[casualfan]

Because they're getting a FULL scholarship, and I didn't get one of those when I was in skewl, rabble rabble rabble. They're spoiled.

So? With the money they bring to the university directly (see our TV Deal) and indirectly (there have been a number of studies done to show how successful sports programs, specifically basketball and football effect enrollment) they probably deserve to be spoiled.

[fellahmuskie]

I sat a few rows in front of Sean O'Mara last winter on a Megabus from Cincy to Chicago. So there is always that option. Needless to say, he took up the entire back row, which is something you can't do as easily on a plane.

[casualfan]

I sat a few rows in front of Sean O'Mara last winter on a Megabus from Cincy to Chicago. [b]So there is always that option.[b] Needless to say, he took up the entire back row, which is something you can't do as easily on a plane.

That's not true.

Megabus only goes to the following cities from Cincinnati:

Indy
Atlanta
Buffalo
Chatanooga
Chicago
Cleveland
Columbus
Erie, PA
Indy
Knoxville
Lexington

I understand there are scenarios where a kid can find convenient travel home other than a plane. But that's not always the case.

[fellahmuskie]

That's not true.

Megabus only goes to the following cities from Cincinnati:

Indy
Atlanta
Buffalo
Chatanooga
Chicago
Cleveland
Columbus
Erie, PA
Indy
Knoxville
Lexington

I understand there are scenarios where a kid can find convenient travel home other than a plane. But that's not always the case.

Sorry, I was mostly being tongue-in-cheek. Thought it was funny that O'Mara rides the Megabus like me.

[X-band '01]

That's not true.

Megabus only goes to the following cities from Cincinnati:

Indy
Atlanta
Buffalo
Chatanooga
Chicago
Cleveland
Columbus
Erie, PA
Indy
Knoxville
Lexington

I understand there are scenarios where a kid can find convenient travel home other than a plane. But that's not always the case.

Greyhound also has a lot more destinations.

[Juice]

So? With the money they bring to the university directly (see our TV Deal) and indirectly (there have been a number of studies done to show how successful sports programs, specifically basketball and football effect enrollment) they probably deserve to be spoiled.

I was being sarcastic. Sorry.

[casualfan]

I was being sarcastic. Sorry.

Oh, my bad. Looking back that should have been more apparent to me.

[muskiefan82]

I was being sarcastic. Sorry.


Oh, my bad. Looking back that should have been more apparent to me.

We really do need that sarcasm font, I think.

[XUMIOH12]

Can you elaborate? Where did you live, how did you get home, how long did it take, etc.

The COA doesn't have to include airfare, but there's no reason it shouldn't. Traveling home is an expense you're asking kids to incur when you recruit them to come to your school and traveling by plane is the option that, by a pretty wide margin, makes the most sense in most cases.

It would take Myles Davis roughly 10 hours to drive home from Xavier, and that's assuming he either has a car or would be able to rent one.

I just don't see why they shouldn't build the cost of flying a kid home a few times a year into the COA.

Well if you would like to know, I usually got home by either getting a ride with someone from my area who did have a car, or my parents coming and getting me. Generally, it took around 4 hours and 10 minutes.

Obviously guys like Myles and Kaiser are probably flying home twice per year. My guess is the majority of our players probably get a ride to and from Xavier, but you have to calculate it for the guys who need to fly from different regions. Travel is an expense every school is asking kids to incur when recruiting them, unless if they are from that exact same area.

I never said it shouldn't include airfare, all I said is that the amount that they will be receiving should be more than enough to cover any expenses.

[Bearcat_Bounce]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
DEC. 15, 2015

Fifth Third Arena Project Receives Board Approval

CINCINNATI - The University of Cincinnati Board of Trustees approved Tuesday an $87-million, privately funded renovation of Fifth Third Arena, home of the Bearcats men’s and women’s basketball and volleyball teams.

“It’s a transformational day for UC Athletics and the University,” Director of Athletics Mike Bohn said. “We are inspired by the passionate engagement from the Board of Trustees, campus leadership and key constituents who are making a bold commitment to our athletic program and the campus community.

“The cost of the project has grown due to complexities associated with renovating a 26-year-old building in line with our plan to construct a state-of-the-art arena that will be among the finest on-campus facilities in the nation.”

Construction is scheduled to begin in April 2017 and be completed in fall 2018.

“Our entire University has grown and transformed into one of the best in the country over the past 15 years, both academically and aesthetically,” Men’s Basketball Head Coach Mick Cronin said. “This arena will be awesome. The planning has been meticulous and the first-class, new design is as good as I’ve seen across all of college basketball. This building is about our future and is a testament to the commitment our University and donors have toward our programs. Today is a great day if you love Bearcats Basketball.”

The board previously approved $2.2-million for the completion of the design development phase by Populous/Moody Nolan that resulted in the current detailed timeline.

Proposed improvements to the facility, built in 1989 and originally named the Myrl H. Shoemaker Center, include the creation of a 360-degree seating bowl, new HD scoreboard, ribbon boards, sound system, an LED lighting system which will allow for enhanced gameday presentation, new restroom and concession facilities, a new upper-level concourse with its own fan amenities, expanded food and beverage options and a new main entrance and plaza with centralized ticketing and guest services. The renovated arena also will feature upgraded locker room spaces, expanded premium seating options, including a courtside club, arena club and concourse club as well as enclosed suites, loge seating, a new Bearcats Lounge and super suites.

“We have strong commitments through the silent giving phase, including long-term suite agreements,” Bohn said. “We anticipate a continued high degree of interest from all levels of our loyal fan base."

Those interested in making a gift to the construction of the arena should contact the UCATS office at 513-556-0735.

“The intimate design will create an up close and personal energy and a stronger home-court advantage for the women’s sports programs,” Volleyball Head Coach Molly Alvey said. “Our recruits have seen the plans and they’re fired up.”

One of the 20 winningest programs in the nation, Cincinnati men's basketball has won more than 1,700 games while claiming 28 conference titles, 10 league tournament crowns and two national championships. The Bearcats were the 2014 American Athletic Conference regular-season champions and currently rank as one of only 11 programs in the nation to advance to the NCAA tournament each of the past five seasons.

In 26 seasons as home to Bearcats men's basketball, Cincinnati has compiled a 359-77 record (.823 win percentage) inside Fifth Third Arena. Through the years, the facility has served as host to the 1994 Great Midwest Men's and women's Basketball Tournament, the 1998 Conference USA Men's Basketball Tournament, the 1998 Conference USA Volleyball Tournament, the 1999 NCAA Mideast Women's Basketball regional, the 2003 NCAA Women's Basketball West Sub-Regional and the 2006 BIG EAST Volleyball Tournament.

Men's and women's basketball and volleyball home events will be conducted off campus during the 2017-18 season while construction is underway.

[GoMuskies]

Well, looks like they won't miss a Shootout at 5/3. Good for them, I guess.

[Bearcat_Bounce]

Well, looks like they won't miss a Shootout at 5/3. Good for them, I guess.

LMAO...per Mick's postgame presser, he is not concerned with Xavier or the shootout.

[GoMuskies]

Good point.

[xudash]

He said "loyal" Fanbase. That's priceless.

So they're essentially catching up to the Cintas Center, though the Cintas Center is having an additional $25 million pumped into it.

At the end of the day, regardless of what they do with that place, they still have Cronin as their coach.

[Masterofreality]

Mike Bohn........Bohn.....heh, heh, heh, heh, heh!!!

Can they create a small riser standing stage next to the bench that would give The Jaundiced Leprechaun a better view of the court proceedings? Maybe a riser of 2-3 feet?

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Guy is classic Napoleon. Davis? The guy who ran the ship last year seems like a good coach. I feel like he won't be there long, though I would expect Steele to get a position first.


He said "loyal" Fanbase. That's priceless.

So they're essentially catching up to the Cintas Center, though the Cintas Center is having an additional $25 million pumped into it.

At the end of the day, regardless of what they do with that place, they still have Cronin as their coach.

[X-Fan]

Not that I care, but did they say if the renovation would increase/decrease seating for bball games? I'm guessing it'll take a few seats away.

[XU 87]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
DEC. 15, 2015

Fifth Third Arena Project Receives Board Approval

CINCINNATI - The University of Cincinnati Board of Trustees approved Tuesday an $87-million, privately funded renovation of Fifth Third Arena, home of the Bearcats men’s and women’s basketball and volleyball teams.

“It’s a transformational day for UC Athletics and the University,” Director of Athletics Mike Bohn said. “We are inspired by the passionate engagement from the Board of Trustees, campus leadership and key constituents who are making a bold commitment to our athletic program and the campus community.

“The cost of the project has grown due to complexities associated with renovating a 26-year-old building in line with our plan to construct a state-of-the-art arena that will be among the finest on-campus facilities in the nation.”

Construction is scheduled to begin in April 2017 and be completed in fall 2018.

“Our entire University has grown and transformed into one of the best in the country over the past 15 years, both academically and aesthetically,” Men’s Basketball Head Coach Mick Cronin said. “This arena will be awesome. The planning has been meticulous and the first-class, new design is as good as I’ve seen across all of college basketball. This building is about our future and is a testament to the commitment our University and donors have toward our programs. Today is a great day if you love Bearcats Basketball.”

The board previously approved $2.2-million for the completion of the design development phase by Populous/Moody Nolan that resulted in the current detailed timeline.

Proposed improvements to the facility, built in 1989 and originally named the Myrl H. Shoemaker Center, include the creation of a 360-degree seating bowl, new HD scoreboard, ribbon boards, sound system, an LED lighting system which will allow for enhanced gameday presentation, new restroom and concession facilities, a new upper-level concourse with its own fan amenities, expanded food and beverage options and a new main entrance and plaza with centralized ticketing and guest services. The renovated arena also will feature upgraded locker room spaces, expanded premium seating options, including a courtside club, arena club and concourse club as well as enclosed suites, loge seating, a new Bearcats Lounge and super suites.

“We have strong commitments through the silent giving phase, including long-term suite agreements,” Bohn said. “We anticipate a continued high degree of interest from all levels of our loyal fan base."

Those interested in making a gift to the construction of the arena should contact the UCATS office at 513-556-0735.

“The intimate design will create an up close and personal energy and a stronger home-court advantage for the women’s sports programs,” Volleyball Head Coach Molly Alvey said. “Our recruits have seen the plans and they’re fired up.”

One of the 20 winningest programs in the nation, Cincinnati men's basketball has won more than 1,700 games while claiming 28 conference titles, 10 league tournament crowns and two national championships. The Bearcats were the 2014 American Athletic Conference regular-season champions and currently rank as one of only 11 programs in the nation to advance to the NCAA tournament each of the past five seasons.

In 26 seasons as home to Bearcats men's basketball, Cincinnati has compiled a 359-77 record (.823 win percentage) inside Fifth Third Arena. Through the years, the facility has served as host to the 1994 Great Midwest Men's and women's Basketball Tournament, the 1998 Conference USA Men's Basketball Tournament, the 1998 Conference USA Volleyball Tournament, the 1999 NCAA Mideast Women's Basketball regional, the 2003 NCAA Women's Basketball West Sub-Regional and the 2006 BIG EAST Volleyball Tournament.

Men's and women's basketball and volleyball home events will be conducted off campus during the 2017-18 season while construction is underway.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2015/12/15/fifth-third-arena-renovation/77348790/

A little more perspective than the UC press release.

[X-band '01]

Not that I care, but did they say if the renovation would increase/decrease seating for bball games? I'm guessing it'll take a few seats away.

I think they're looking at a seating of roughly 11,000 to 11,500. I think that's only slightly more than what a renovated Cintas will offer.

[Juice]

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2015/12/15/fifth-third-arena-renovation/77348790/

A little more perspective than the UC press release.

Broering said in a podcast from Sunday/Monday that UC was having trouble raising the money to pay for this shit.

[Masterofreality]

I think as a condition of Xavier approving Cintas as the Borecats temp home that ALL Crosstown Shootouts take place at Cintas during construction.

THAT would concern Sippin' Mick with Xavier.

[bleedXblue]

Here's the issue I have. The facility is only 25 years old and as soon as it was built there were issues with seats, viewing being obstructed, concourses that were too narrow etc. etc. Now they're going to spend 90 million to do what they should have done from the very beginning. The amount of space up on that campus limits you to what you can do...and that includes football.

[Bearcat_Bounce]

I think they're looking at a seating of roughly 11,000 to 11,500. I think that's only slightly more than what a renovated Cintas will offer.

Looks like 12,000 is the magic number like 40,000 was the magic number in football. It will be around there.


Broering said in a podcast from Sunday/Monday that UC was having trouble raising the money to pay for this shit.

I think the estimated cost doubled from the original estimate. Not to mention it is privately funded and major donors shelled out a lot already for the $86 million football renovation.

[Bearcat_Bounce]

I think as a condition of Xavier approving Cintas as the Borecats temp home that ALL Crosstown Shootouts take place at Cintas during construction.

THAT would concern Sippin' Mick with Xavier.

There is a chance we could be playing our home games at Cintas. I'd prefer that to US Bank or the Gardens since it is already the nicest arena in the city.

[blobfan]

Now that we are past the shootout and I don't have to hear Mick talk about us, I can be magnanimous. How great will this be for the fans on-campus? I'm remembering how much fun the new Cintas Center was for us. It would be nice if the update would reinvigorate the fan base and get them to attend games again.

[THRILLHOUSE]

There is a chance we could be playing our home games at Cintas. I'd prefer that to US Bank or the Gardens since it is already the nicest arena in the city.

NKU's arena could work for you guys as well. But would assume Cintas would have a slight advantage due to proximity between the two campuses.

[STL_XUfan]

I wouldn't be that upset if the lease to UC didn't allow them to bring their own court. Every game they have televised would have to feature the Big East and X logos (I know we would never do this, but still, it would be funny).

[coasterville95]

Does the new UC arena plans call for Cry Rooms for fans that are fed up over Micks coaching and need group therapy.

I really thought US Bank Arena was going to be the temporary home. bank of Kentucky center is too far, I don't think the Gardens has a basketball floor anymore (and can they really ask fans to endure that dump. Years of almost non use cant have treated that place well) and is have to think Pride would preclude use of Cintas. Although if I recall, I thought the planning team had tours and presentations by both Cintas and the Gardens, but surely that's to get some leverage over Us Bank Arena, right?

[Xtemporaneous]

Personally I'd rather see UC use their own floor which they have. Just a lot of empty navy blue seats would be visible.

[XUMIOH12]

i hope they play somewhere other than Cintas

[Cheesehead]

i hope they play somewhere other than Cintas

I agree. While I would find it amusing UC paying Xavier to play in our facility, I really don't want UC games in the Cintas and especially their fans.

[XUMIOH12]

I agree. While I would find it amsusing UC paying Xavier to play in our facility, I really don't want UC games in the Cintas and especially their fans.

exactly my thoughts on it.

[GoMuskies]

I really don't want UC games in the Cintas and especially their fans.

Do we have a curtain we can put over the upper level to make it look at least half full if UC plays at Cintas?

[Masterofreality]

I agree. While I would find it amsusing UC paying Xavier to play in our facility, I really don't want UC games in the Cintas and especially their fans.


Do we have a curtain we can put over the upper level to make it look at least half full if UC plays at Cintas?

We'd have to charge them double the usual rate to clean the place after their "fans" leave. The amount of slobbering drool and dirt that would be left behind would be unbearcatable.

[muskiefan82]

We'd have to charge them double the usual rate to clean the place after their "fans" leave. The amount of slobbering drool and dirt that would be left behind would be unbearcatable.

I doubt 100 fans would create that much of a mess.

[94GRAD]

I would love it if they played at the Cintas Center!!!

[blobfan]

I wouldn't be that upset if the lease to UC didn't allow them to bring their own court. Every game they have televised would have to feature the Big East and X logos (I know we would never do this, but still, it would be funny).

That would be funny. Wonder how that would work? I'm under the impression it's difficult to pull up the court on a frequent basis and that doing so risks damage.

[nuts4xu]

I would love it if they played at the Cintas Center!!!

Me too, we will take their rent money. I don't know why anyone would have an issue with it.

Can't hurt to see revenue from an extra 15 events for a couple of years.

[XUMIOH12]

That would be funny. Wonder how that would work? I'm under the impression it's difficult to pull up the court on a frequent basis and that doing so risks damage.

its really not too difficult to change the courts. it happens very frequently in many arenas.

[nuts4xu]

I don't think Cintas has a court they can take up, like the Cincy Gardens or US Bank Arena. I believe it is a permanent floor, and painted with permanent paint. They can't just make it a UC court, this isn't Staples Center.

[nuts4xu]

its really not too difficult to change the courts. it happens very frequently in many arenas.

Mulitpurpose arenas, like US Bank Arena, yes, it happens frequently. Permanent basketball arenas...it is more common to have a permanent floor. The arena UC plays in has a permanent floor as well. They can't rip it up, and bring it to Cintas Center, as if it were a floor we used to play on at Cincy Gardens (on top of an ice rink for hockey).

[XUMIOH12]

Mulitpurpose arenas, like US Bank Arena, yes, it happens frequently. Permanent basketball arenas...it is more common to have a permanent floor. The arena UC plays in has a permanent floor as well. They can't rip it up, and bring it to Cintas Center, as if it were a floor we used to play on at Cincy Gardens (on top of an ice rink for hockey).

im almost certain the court in Cintas is removable. Its not like the basketball court is the actual floor. They take out the court for events such as graduations, its not like you're walking over the court.

[D-West & PO-Z]

im almost certain the court in Cintas is removable. Its not like the basketball court is the actual floor. They take out the court for events such as graduations, its not like you're walking over the court.

Yeah and concerts and other events.

[XUMIOH12]

Yeah and concerts and other events.

right, the court is on top of the floor, if you are on the floor, you need to step up almost a foot or so to stand on the court.

[nuts4xu]

im almost certain the court in Cintas is removable. Its not like the basketball court is the actual floor. They take out the court for events such as graduations, its not like you're walking over the court.

I contacted Cintas Center and have confirmed your are correct, they can remove the floor and replace it. The tennis tournament they had last summer in Cintas is an example.

It takes an 8 person crew to remove it, and it appears UC could use their own floor if they wanted to. It's been a while since I have been on the floor, ya learn something new everyday!

[paulxu]

I hope that there would be enough signage around that was permanent, that every time they broadcast the kittens from Cintas people would be confused as hell.
And the announcers would be talking about the great facility X has.

[X-band '01]

I don't think Cintas has a court they can take up, like the Cincy Gardens or US Bank Arena. I believe it is a permanent floor, and painted with permanent paint. They can't just make it a UC court, this isn't Staples Center.

Xavier's floor is removable; I certainly don't remember any basketball floor in place when I had my graduation in Cintas about 15 years ago.

Dayton has a removable floor AND a permanent floor that looks like it was made in the 1970s/1980s.

[coasterville95]

Even if UC brought in their own floor - there could be a stipulation that it has to bear the Cintas Center logo. After all, Cintas paid a lot of money for those naming rights. Imagine a "Cintas Center at Xavier University" logo.

We are assuming UC has a floor they can bring. They may have at least a center court tile, as they have the C Paw at US Bank when they play there.

They did inform UC on their visit that the 10,617 rabid fans they saw Saturday do NOT come with the arena rental.

Mind blowing moment - UC rents the Cintas the year they are scheduled to host the Crosstown - demand they are the home team as its their year and they control the seating. Yikes what a horrible thought. I need to get some mind eraser.

[bigdiggins]

Even if UC brought in their own floor - there could be a stipulation that it has to bear the Cintas Center logo. After all, Cintas paid a lot of money for those naming rights. Imagine a "Cintas Center at Xavier University" logo.

We are assuming UC has a floor they can bring. They may have at least a center court tile, as they have the C Paw at US Bank when they play there.

They did inform UC on their visit that the 10,617 rabid fans they saw Saturday do NOT come with the arena rental.

Mind blowing moment - UC rents the Cintas the year they are scheduled to host the Crosstown - demand they are the home team as its their year and they control the seating. Yikes what a horrible thought. I need to get some mind eraser.

Actually, Cintas didn't pay a thing. Mr. Kohlhepp on the other hand donated a lot of money for those rights.

[xubrew]

If I were Xavier, I'd be fine with UC playing there.

If I were UC, I think I'd want to find some place else to play.

[X-band '01]

Even if UC brought in their own floor - there could be a stipulation that it has to bear the Cintas Center logo. After all, Cintas paid a lot of money for those naming rights. Imagine a "Cintas Center at Xavier University" logo.

We are assuming UC has a floor they can bring. They may have at least a center court tile, as they have the C Paw at US Bank when they play there.

They did inform UC on their visit that the 10,617 rabid fans they saw Saturday do NOT come with the arena rental.

Mind blowing moment - UC rents the Cintas the year they are scheduled to host the Crosstown - demand they are the home team as its their year and they control the seating. Yikes what a horrible thought. I need to get some mind eraser.

Not anymore Coaster - UC was originally scheduled to do their renovations next season (which would have been their turn to host the Shootout). Assuming that the 5/3 Arena renovation is pushed back to the 2017-18 season, Xavier would be hosting the Shootout as the home team.

[xubrew]

Mind blowing moment - UC rents the Cintas the year they are scheduled to host the Crosstown - demand they are the home team as its their year and they control the seating. Yikes what a horrible thought. I need to get some mind eraser.

This isn't actually unheard of. Albany and Siena always play at Siena, but it's technically not a Siena home game. The tickets are split, and if you have season tickets, you don't get to sit in your normal seat.

Didn't Saint Joe's play a home game against Penn at the Palestra a few years back??

I think Milwaukee played their home game at Marquette when the two used to play. Milwaukee did the event management and managed the tickets.

[nuts4xu]

Mind blowing moment - UC rents the Cintas the year they are scheduled to host the Crosstown - demand they are the home team as its their year and they control the seating. Yikes what a horrible thought. I need to get some mind eraser.

We have already been through this experience, when UC played at Cincinnati Gardens for a few years before The Shoemaker Center was finished. UC hosted the crosstown shootout at the Gardens at least once that I can recall. It was a strange experience to attend a Xavier game at the Gardens and not be able to sit in my season ticket seats.

[coasterville95]

I remember that year - when St Joes was overhauling the field house and played a season at the Palestra. We lucked out and got to play a game in the Palestra out of that.

[xupuck10]

This isn't actually unheard of. Albany and Siena always play at Siena, but it's technically not a Siena home game. The tickets are split, and if you have season tickets, you don't get to sit in your normal seat.

Didn't Saint Joe's play a home game against Penn at the Palestra a few years back??

I think Milwaukee played their home game at Marquette when the two used to play. Milwaukee did the event management and managed the tickets.

I think the Albany/Siena situation is a little different. Albany usually plays its home games on campus while Siena plays its home games off campus downtown at the Times Union Center. So while the TU is Siena's home court, it's off campus and not owned by either school.

[Masterofreality]

I remember that year - when St Joes was overhauling the field house and played a season at the Palestra. We lucked out and got to play a game in the Palestra out of that.

And that was one of the most superb nights that I can remember. Seeing X play a game in that Historic building, winning, then going out for beers afterward with DC Muskie, Tom DeCorte and PMI plus others. Classic!

[xubrew]

And that was one of the most superb nights that I can remember. Seeing X play a game in that Historic building, winning, then going out for beers afterward with DC Muskie, Tom DeCorte and PMI plus others. Classic!

It's the nights that you CAN'T remember that are truly superb!!

[blobfan]

I contacted Cintas Center and have confirmed your are correct, they can remove the floor and replace it. The tennis tournament they had last summer in Cintas is an example.

It takes an 8 person crew to remove it, and it appears UC could use their own floor if they wanted to. It's been a while since I have been on the floor, ya learn something new everyday!
I know it's removable. I seem to remember though in the early years it got damaged because it was pulled up too often and they had to repaint it sooner than budgeted. It may be that the floor has a more durable paint job now and that's not an issue. But I've also heard that they stopped promoting arena events because the basketball team doesn't like to be bumped the aux gym. They used to host a lot more concerts and even had boxing. But the team lost practice time to prep days for these events so they've tapered off. Having another team play on a different floor in our arena would reduce practice time for the team again.

Then again, if US Bank is asking for a huge payment, X can build a lot of those costs into an agreement and still probably come in lower.

[muskiefan82]

It's the nights that you CAN'T remember that are truly superb!!

Often, it's the nights that others recount to you.

[Bearcat_Bounce]

Often, it's the nights that others recount to you.

Disagree. I don't remember what happened last Saturday from 5:30-7:30 pm but it was recounted to me and I felt freaking terrible.

[X-band '01]

Cincinnati Enquirer - UC signs $69 million contract to renovate Fifth Third Arena (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/16/uc-signs-69m-contract-renovate-fifth-third-arena/84438012/)

The article says renovations will begin in June 2016 (which would be next month) - I thought they were going to push back any renovations until after the 2016-17 season.

[THRILLHOUSE]

UC signs $69 million contract to renovate Fifth Third Arena



#nice

[XU 87]

According to Wiki, it cost $46 million to build Cintas, which equates to $63.2 in today's dollars. Cintas also included conference rooms and a cafeteria.

UC is going to spend $69 million to renovate a building which is about 11 years older than Cintas.

[fellahmuskie]

Cincinnati Enquirer - UC signs $69 million contract to renovate Fifth Third Arena (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/16/uc-signs-69m-contract-renovate-fifth-third-arena/84438012/)

The article says renovations will begin in June 2016 (which would be next month) - I thought they were going to push back any renovations until after the 2016-17 season.

I think the Business Courier said it wouldn't be finished until Nov. 2018, so I'm guessing the major work doesn't start until after the 2016-17 season. It's going to be interesting to see where they play in 2017-18. I'd go with US Bank, but it would be hilarious if they got stuck at NKU or decided to play in Cintas.

[LA Muskie]

According to Wiki, it cost $46 million to build Cintas, which equates to $63.2 in today's dollars. Cintas also included conference rooms and a cafeteria.

UC is going to spend $69 million to renovate a building which is about 11 years older than Cintas.
Sometimes the only viable option is to renovate instead of rebuild. See, e.g., Alter Hall. If done right, a renovation to that degree should be virtually indistinguishable from new construction (at least to the naked, untrained eye).

[X-band '01]

Also noteworthy in that UC's renovation will be privately funded. It will shrink their capacity to about 11,500, but there will be better sightlines and increased concessions/restrooms (particularly in the upper sections).

[94GRAD]

I think the Business Courier said it wouldn't be finished until Nov. 2018, so I'm guessing the major work doesn't start until after the 2016-17 season. It's going to be interesting to see where they play in 2017-18. I'd go with US Bank, but it would be hilarious if they got stuck at NKU or decided to play in Cintas.

For purely monitary reasons, I hope they play at Cintas!!!

[fellahmuskie]

For purely monitary reasons, I hope they play at Cintas!!!

I can imagine. It might be the best thing that could ever happen to this rivalry.

[XU 87]

Sometimes the only viable option is to renovate instead of rebuild. See, e.g., Alter Hall. If done right, a renovation to that degree should be virtually indistinguishable from new construction (at least to the naked, untrained eye).

Fair enough, except Alter was "gutted to its frame" according to the info I just read. I don't think 5/3 renovation is THAT extensive.

[LA Muskie]

'87, it absolutely was. And for $69 million I sure as hell hope 5/3 is getting similar treatment!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ballyhoohoo]

I don't think they have the option to build new. Between cost and no land to use. Plus to tear down 5/3 and reclaim the land for other revenue generating purposes could be costly. Land purchase (or allocation with tear down and prep) + construction + tear down of 5/3 and reclamation cost of that parcel of land could near $200mm.

sUCks is making the smart financial choice for sure.

[xubrew]

I think the Business Courier said it wouldn't be finished until Nov. 2018, so I'm guessing the major work doesn't start until after the 2016-17 season. It's going to be interesting to see where they play in 2017-18. I'd go with US Bank, but it would be hilarious if they got stuck at NKU or decided to play in Cintas.

I don't think being stuck at NKU would be all that bad. Apparently US Bank is a nightmare to deal with. NKU would probably welcome the idea of having them play there and not drive them crazy. If US Bank wants to be a pain in the ass, and NKU offers terms that are clearly better, then go with NKU.

Also, what about Cincinnati Gardens? Is that still an option?

[X-band '01]

About the only thing still going on at the Gardens that I know of is RollerDerby.

[TUclutch]

I think the Business Courier said it wouldn't be finished until Nov. 2018, so I'm guessing the major work doesn't start until after the 2016-17 season. It's going to be interesting to see where they play in 2017-18. I'd go with US Bank, but it would be hilarious if they got stuck at NKU or decided to play in Cintas.

Why would it be hilarious if they got "stuck" at NKU? Have you been to their arena? I was there probably 4 years ago and it reminded me of Cintas. Pretty sure some of the designs were based on Cintas. Bank of Ky Center is a great facility. Not sure I would call it getting "stuck" playing there

[xubrew]

Why would it be hilarious if they got "stuck" at NKU? Have you been to their arena? I was there probably 4 years ago and it reminded me of Cintas. Pretty sure some of the designs were based on Cintas. Bank of Ky Center is a great facility. Not sure I would call it getting "stuck" playing there

Well, they would be the only team that I can think of that would be playing their home games in another state, but other than that I think it's the best option.

[fellahmuskie]

Why would it be hilarious if they got "stuck" at NKU? Have you been to their arena? I was there probably 4 years ago and it reminded me of Cintas. Pretty sure some of the designs were based on Cintas. Bank of Ky Center is a great facility. Not sure I would call it getting "stuck" playing there

Ok, maybe I was exaggerating there. As someone without a car, anything past Norwood or the Newport Kroger is in another universe to me :)) It gives me a bit of a skewed perspective. I think Cintas would be the best for UC as far as attendance is concerned, but it's possible BB&T would be an improvement on US Bank Arena.

[X-band '01]

Well, they would be the only team that I can think of that would be playing their home games in another state, but other than that I think it's the best option.

Ghost of Fordham games in the Izod Center and Georgetown games in Landover, MD

(And don't get me started on Duke games played in NY/NJ)

[XU 87]

I'm with Brew- I think it would be pretty funny if UC plays in another state.

In 1988, UC played in The Gardens while 5/3 was being built. So Cintas isn't out of the question.

Does anyone know- is the Gardens capable anymore of having UC play there next year?

[THRILLHOUSE]

Does anyone know- is the Gardens capable anymore of having UC play there next year?

UC officials took a tour of the Gardens last year as one of the options for their homecourt while the Shoe is renovated. So as of last year it was definitely on the table as a possibility. (Though I'd be really surprised if that's where they end up.)

[XU 87]

UC officials took a tour of the Gardens last year as one of the options for their homecourt while the Shoe is renovated. So as of last year it was definitely on the table as a possibility. (Though I'd be really surprised if that's where they end up.)

I was reading the Gardens website. They still have the Cincinnati Roller Girls there, so they must still have the seats etc in the arena.

Good seats for Roller Girl matches are still available.

[paulxu]

We could have another Shootout at the Gardens?

[xeus]

I contacted Cintas Center and have confirmed your are correct, they can remove the floor and replace it. The tennis tournament they had last summer in Cintas is an example.

It takes an 8 person crew to remove it, and it appears UC could use their own floor if they wanted to. It's been a while since I have been on the floor, ya learn something new everyday!

LH, please take note of the above example of how to gracefully admit you are wrong.

[Emp]

The seating and the irregular aisle step/riser situation at the Gardens is a nightmare. No luxury boxes. I can't imagine high profile seat licensees and the private money financing the renovations who have never been in the Gardens reacting well.

Going to Cintas or NKU TOO HARD TO SWALLOW. US Bank has the Cats by the short hairs.

[xubrew]

The seating and the irregular aisle step/riser situation at the Gardens is a nightmare. No luxury boxes. I can't imagine high profile seat licensees and the private money financing the renovations who have never been in the Gardens reacting well.

Going to Cintas or NKU TOO HARD TO SWALLOW. US Bank has the Cats by the short hairs.

Well, it's still better than playing an hour away like Clemson did last year, or playing at a high school like SMU did for the first half of the season two years ago. A temporary home court is kind of just that. I get not wanting to shit on your big donors, but you have to play somewhere, and better the Gardens than, say, the Nutter Center, even though the Nutter Center is arguably nicer.

[xubrew]

I contacted Cintas Center and have confirmed your are correct, they can remove the floor and replace it. The tennis tournament they had last summer in Cintas is an example.

It takes an 8 person crew to remove it, and it appears UC could use their own floor if they wanted to. It's been a while since I have been on the floor, ya learn something new everyday!

I wouldn't remove the floor. No freakin' way! I'm more than happy to leave them the keys and let them use it on the days the men's or women's team aren't playing, but that's about it. They do all the event management, they take care of the parking (and we keep some of that), they take care of the concessions (and we keep some of that), they bring their own trainers, they bring their own ice, and we're certainly not spending the time or energy to pick up the floor and lay down another one every time they want to use it. It's not worth it. If they actually ask us to do that for them I hope we laugh at them.

When Rhode Island played at Providence when their arena was being built, it was Providence's floor, and that arena isn't even on campus. I don't see why Providence, or anyone else, would feel compelled to do anything more other than letting them use the facility.

[muskiefan82]

I wouldn't remove the floor. No freakin' way! I'm more than happy to leave them the keys and let them use it on the days the men's or women's team aren't playing, but that's about it. They do all the event management, they take care of the parking (and we keep some of that), they take care of the concessions (and we keep some of that), they bring their own trainers, they bring their own ice, and we're certainly not spending the time or energy to pick up the floor and lay down another one every time they want to use it. It's not worth it. If they actually ask us to do that for them I hope we laugh at them.

When Rhode Island played at Providence when their arena was being built, it was Providence's floor, and that arena isn't even on campus. I don't see why Providence, or anyone else, would feel compelled to do anything more other than letting them use the facility.

I agree with Brew here. There has to be some additional wear and tear involved with taking up and putting down the floor multiple times that isn't necessary. I also would think UC wouldn't want the additional cost of bringing their floor over to the Cintas and taking it up and down multiple times and then storing it. BB&T is a much better choice, IMHO. UC could probably get a deal if they agree to a 6-10 year agreement for home and homes in a new "River Battle" series or something. The mean-spirited side of me doesn't think it would be a great idea to have UC players in the home locker room either. Water fountains might be at risk!

[bigdiggins]

Well, it's still better than playing an hour away like Clemson did last year, or playing at a high school like SMU did for the first half of the season two years ago. A temporary home court is kind of just that. I get not wanting to shit on your big donors, but you have to play somewhere, and better the Gardens than, say, the Nutter Center, even though the Nutter Center is arguably nicer.

How is that even arguable? Someone who had a pee trough fetish may be able to make an argument I guess.

[xubrew]

I agree with Brew here. There has to be some additional wear and tear involved with taking up and putting down the floor multiple times that isn't necessary. I also would think UC wouldn't want the additional cost of bringing their floor over to the Cintas and taking it up and down multiple times and then storing it. BB&T is a much better choice, IMHO. UC could probably get a deal if they agree to a 6-10 year agreement for home and homes in a new "River Battle" series or something. The mean-spirited side of me doesn't think it would be a great idea to have UC players in the home locker room either. Water fountains might be at risk!

I don't know how many locker rooms there are in Cintas, but I wouldn't let them use the same one as the men's or women's team either. If the fall and spring sports have locker rooms in Cintas, then they can use one of those. We shouldn't have to make the teams get their stuff out of their own locker rooms just so someone else who isn't Xavier can use it.

It's been my experience that when teams use someone else's facility, they don't feel obligated to do all that much for you. And....they really shouldn't. If UC wants to use Cintas, then great, but it's not Xavier's home event. We're not going to do anything to inconvenience ourselves. They're responsible for everything. It's not so much the issue of additional wear and tear on the floor. It's the issue of not wasting the time, energy, and manpower to pick up the floor and lay down another one for someone else's home event. They need a place to play, and we're giving them the keys to our place on the nights we don't need it and taking some of the gate, concessions, and parking in return. That's more than fair, and it's more than enough. If they want to play somewhere else then that's fine too.

EDIT: offering NKU a long standing home and home is actually a pretty good idea.