Florida going after Mack?

[Lamont Sanford]

Love the optimism...but it would be terrible news for Xavier's future if he left right now. If we can't keep an alum, we are destined to being a stepping stone.

Agreed.

Also I am not real high on Steele either. Just don't see him as a high major HC.

[BMoreX]

Agreed.

Also I am not real high on Steele either. Just don't see him as a high major HC.

Did people see Mack as a high major coach?

I'm just curious because I wasn't around back then.

[Pete Delkus]

I'd actually take Steele over Kelsey right now. I think Steele could be a guy that sticks around a lot too. Who knows though?

I'm curious to understand why you would think Steele would 'stick around' vs. a guy like Mack, who is from Cincy?

If you take the 2 guys that went to Xavier, are from Cincy and coach D1 basketball, most people who are familiar with those 2 figure that Mack would be the one who would want to climb the National ladder. I'm not saying Mack is leaving, but people I know believe that Chris sees a path for himself that could bring him MORE millions of millions of dollars, and the fame that goes along with coaching teams that could challenge every year for a national championship...Nothing wrong with this aspiration - AT ALL!

Steele's personality, coaching and recruiting philosophy more mirrors Mack's, than Kelsey, which I think is one of the reasons Travis is still at Xavier and Kels is at Winthrop...and Mack and Kelsey are friends.

If any out of the 3 would take the Xavier job, succeed and STAY...it would be Kelsey - in my opinion.

[bleedXblue]

So I came across this morning taken from www.worthly.com from 12/2/14: Top 20 highest paid BB Coaches (salary-wise)

20) Mark Gottfried 2.0 mil
19) Scott Drew 2.13 mil
18) Lon Kruger 2.2 mil
17) Tony Bennett 2.29
16) Bo Ryan 2.41
15) Jamie Dixon 2.44
14) Travis Ford 2.45
13) Jay Wright 2.48
12) John Beilein 2.49
11) Rick Barnes 2.55
10) Sean Miller 2.62
9) Josh Pastner 2.65
8) Thad Matta 3.28
7) Steve Alford 3.47
6) Tom Izzo 3.89
5) Billy Donovan 3.9
4) Bill Self 4.96
3) John Calipari 5.51
2) Rick Pitino 6.75
1) Coach K 9.68

Notables missing: Roy Williams, Tom Crean, Shaka Smart

These number may not be entirely accurate as I think Bennet got a raise and it doesn't accouny for some changes but it gives one some prespective. If XU thinks it is a top 20 program, then we certainly are not paying our coaches that way. By not paying market value, X risks always being a stepping stone.

It gets old having to worry about this every few years.



Exactly. We should be in the range of 1.5-2 mil IMHO

Two things of note. Almost all of the coaches above are at public institutions with much larger alumni bases.

Also, Few is not on that list. Not surprised by that. He's one of the few exceptions that isn't paid at the highest level and he still sticks around even though he could have just about any job he wants.

[boozehound]

I'm curious to understand why you would think Steele would 'stick around' vs. a guy like Mack, who is from Cincy?

If you take the 2 guys that went to Xavier, are from Cincy and coach D1 basketball, most people who are familiar with those 2 figure that Mack would be the one who would want to climb the National ladder. I'm not saying Mack is leaving, but people I know believe that Chris sees a path for himself that could bring him MORE millions of millions of dollars, and the fame that goes along with coaching teams that could challenge every year for a national championship...Nothing wrong with this aspiration - AT ALL!

Steele's personality, coaching and recruiting philosophy more mirrors Mack's, than Kelsey, which I think is one of the reasons Travis is still at Xavier and Kels is at Winthrop...and Mack and Kelsey are friends.

If any out of the 3 would take the Xavier job, succeed and STAY...it would be Kelsey - in my opinion.

I agree with all of this. I also am not sure Steele is a no-brainer. Mack and Miller both were the 'associate head coach' for several years (if I recall correctly) before getting the head coaching job. I wouldn't hate it if Steele got the job, but I do think we should seriously interview candidates.

[muskiefan82]

1708

[Muskie]

It’s worth noting here that Florida likely won’t be throwing around $4 million a year. Their new head football coach Jim McElwain makes $3.5 million annually, and that was after he chipped in $2 million of his own money to help with his buyout at Colorado State. The SEC’s three major hires in the last two seasons — Bruce Pearl at Auburn, Ben Howland at Mississippi State and Rick Barnes at Tennessee — all make a little more than $2 million a year, and many believe that’s roughly what Florida will spend to make their basketball hire.

(Link (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/30/report-billy-donovan-finalizing-deal-with-oklahoma-city/))

[Xville]

Love the optimism...but it would be terrible news for Xavier's future if he left right now. If we can't keep an alum, we are destined to being a stepping stone. Having said that, I don't see Mack leaving.

Why would it be terrible news? Since when did Mack become Wooden? The guy is a good coach, not a great one. Would it be nice to have him stay a couple more years? I guess, but I don't think it would be terrible if he left especially considering that there is only one recruit coming in.

I hate to break it to some of you, but Mack is going to leave at some point. He is at some point going to either take this Florida job, or take an elite type job like Miller did, and it's going to be ok when he does.

[kyxu]

Love the optimism...but it would be terrible news for Xavier's future if he left right now. If we can't keep an alum, we are destined to being a stepping stone. Having said that, I don't see Mack leaving.

I don't know why it would mean such bad things for the program if Xavier "can't" keep Chris Mack. We all know he's not going to retire from Xavier, and people drastically oversell coaching at your alma mater as a destination.

[markchal]

Why would it be terrible news? Since when did Mack become Wooden? The guy is a good coach, not a great one. Would it be nice to have him stay a couple more years? I guess, but I don't think it would be terrible if he left especially considering that there is only one recruit coming in.

I hate to break it to some of you, but Mack is going to leave at some point. He is at some point going to either take this Florida job, or take an elite type job like Miller did, and it's going to be ok when he does.

I don't think he means it would be terrible from the coaching standpoint, as Mack is a good coach but we can find other good coaches. I think he's speaking more from the standpoint of the program's future. I think there are some fans out there who, with the move to the Big East, thought we'd become more of a destination job than a stepping stone. And, if an alum who played here doesn't stay longer than the requisite 5-6 years, then yeah, I think it's pretty safe to say that even in the Big East we're a stepping stone.

[LA Muskie]

Can we please dispense with the "destination job" bullshit? There are fewer than 10 destination jobs in all of college basketball. Hell, Roy Williams left Kansas for UNC and Kansas is a destination job for 99.999% of the coaching world.

I don't need a coach to stay forever. Frankly, I don't really want it. There's a reason Mark Few is in a class all by himself. It is very rare for a relationship like that to work for so long.

Change can be good. I'm not saying I want change every year. But a new coaching regime every 8-10 years seems about right to me, frankly.

[X-Fan]

I'd actually take Steele over Kelsey right now. I think Steele could be a guy that sticks around a lot too. Who knows though?


I'm in this camp as well. Steele has to be the guy if Mack eventually goes. Plus Steele has an in with most of the guys were currently recruiting and relationships with the players currently on the team. I think he's going to make a really good head coach.

If my choice is between Kelsey and Steele, I probably go Steele. 1. From a stability standpoint, you have a better chance staying with someone who the players are already working with. 2. I don't know if I want Kelsey after he left X to "take a year off". I get it that he had some sort of "I can't let this job kill me like it did Skip" realization, but it feels like he sort of quit on X. It says a lot that he was the "next guy in line" if Mack left, and he decided it leave. 3. It's not like Kelsey is killing it at Winthrop. They have had two winning records in a row, but haven't won a conference title or got to a postseason tournament.


I don't know why it would mean such bad things for the program if Xavier "can't" keep Chris Mack. We all know he's not going to retire from Xavier, and people drastically oversell coaching at your alma mater as a destination.

I see both sides of this. It would be bad because you have the "gamble" of the next hire hurting the program. X has done very well with Head Coaching hires, but the transition periods almost always mean the program has to take a step back. It certainly is also an opportunity. Maybe the next HC will be able to get more out of the roster than Coach Mack. Who knows.

Personally, I like Coach Mack and hope he stays. He showed me a lot last season, and I am excited to see what he can do with the talent that X has. FLAT OUT, you have to have talent to be successful. Sure some coaches can get more out of players, but talent is key. Coach Mack has some serious talent to work with. That was lacking (certainly in terms of overall roster talent level) from 2012-2013.

[GuyFawkes38]

Yeah, I just don't feel very stressed out about the prospect of Mack leaving. I like Mack and hope he stays. But if you dig into the numbers, Miller's tenure is clearly superior to Mack's (and lets face it, Mack was lucky to play 2 double digit teams to reach the sweet 16). I'm still bitter about Miller leaving. Such a great fit. Not possible to replace him. But, with a little luck, I think we can replace Mack, if necessary.

That being said, ideal scenario is Mack turns down Florida. Florida hires Archie Miller. Word leaks out that Archie was frusterated by being in the A10.

[kyxu]

I see both sides of this. It would be bad because you have the "gamble" of the next hire hurting the program. X has done very well with Head Coaching hires, but the transition periods almost always mean the program has to take a step back. It certainly is also an opportunity. Maybe the next HC will be able to get more out of the roster than Coach Mack. Who knows.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. People on this board were making a larger deal on the implications of losing a coach like Mack, who is an alum, and how it would reflect poorly on the program. I say that it wouldn't any more than losing any other coach.

[XU 87]

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. People on this board were making a larger deal on the implications of losing a coach like Mack, who is an alum, and how it would reflect poorly on the program. I say that it wouldn't any more than losing any other coach.

True, but if we lose Mack, It tells me that, in all likelihood, that we will never keep a coach more than 5-6 years. Mack is not only an alum, but is from here, his family is here, and his wife's family is 100 miles away. He also seems to be a Cincinnati guy- when he left Evansville he came back to X to play. When he left Wake, he came back to X to coach.

[X-Fan]

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. People on this board were making a larger deal on the implications of losing a coach like Mack, who is an alum, and how it would reflect poorly on the program. I say that it wouldn't any more than losing any other coach.

Gotcha. Ya, I tend to agree with you on that. Any more that's just how the coaching world is. People come and go. Very few stay for more than 5-7 years.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I dont think it says anything bad about us nationally if we lose Mack given that most probably dont know he is a Cincinnati guy (and even if they do) but it doesnt make me, or probably most XU fans, feel good about keeping someone long term (10 plus years). Maybe that isnt realistic anyway except at maybe just a few schools?

[Olsingledigit]

Gotcha. Ya, I tend to agree with you on that. Any more that's just how the coaching world is. People come and go. Very few stay for more than 5-7 years.

It would be interesting if one of you would either find or do your own survey of how long the average D-1 coach does stay before moving on (or getting fired).

[casualfan]

To me Mack being a Cincinnati guy doesn't affect my opinion of us being able to keep guys long term if he leaves.

It might show that a Cincinnati guy/alum isn't willing to take less to remain here, but it doesn't show they aren't amenable to staying.

The bottom line for me is that if you feel like you have a top 20 coach you should pay him like a top 20 coach, whether he is from Cincinnati or not.

Right now we aren't paying Chris like a top 20 coach. Maybe the admin doesn't feel like he is worthy of that, but if a good situation comes around where a school is willing to pay him a top 20 salary I don't think it would be all that surprising if he takes.

All of that is to say, if we want to keep a coach long term and we fancy ourselves a top 20 program we should start paying our coach accordingly. Whether that coach is from Cincinnati or not.

[Backyard Champ]

Why would it be terrible news? Since when did Mack become Wooden? The guy is a good coach, not a great one. Would it be nice to have him stay a couple more years? I guess, but I don't think it would be terrible if he left especially considering that there is only one recruit coming in.

I hate to break it to some of you, but Mack is going to leave at some point. He is at some point going to either take this Florida job, or take an elite type job like Miller did, and it's going to be ok when he does.

I guess it just depends on where people think we are as a program, and where people think we are going as a program. If Xavier wants to be a program that is consistently in the top 25, and makes deep runs in March (elite 8, final four runs, possible championship runs), than we need our head coach to stick around. If we want to change the perception of being a mid major, we can't have coaches continually using us as a stepping stone. If Xavier, now in the Big East, can't keep an alum as their head coach, I don't see how we can make the jump to the levels of a school like Villinova/Florida.

I do not think we can continually go through coaching changes and expect to be a top tier program.

[Xville]

I guess it just depends on where people think we are as a program, and where people think we are going as a program. If Xavier wants to be a program that is consistently in the top 25, and makes deep runs in March (elite 8, final four runs, possible championship runs), than we need our head coach to stick around. If we want to change the perception of being a mid major, we can't have coaches continually using us as a stepping stone. If Xavier, now in the Big East, can't keep an alum as their head coach, I don't see how we can make the jump to the levels of a school like Villinova/Florida.

I do not think we can continually go through coaching changes and expect to be a top tier program.

we aren't a mid major and we don't have the perception of being a mid major anymore. There are about 5 schools in college that aren't stepping stones. We aren't ever going to be one of those 5...coaches are going to leave and that's ok. The Mark Fews of the world don't exist outside of him.

[Xville]

To me Mack being a Cincinnati guy doesn't affect my opinion of us being able to keep guys long term if he leaves.

It might show that a Cincinnati guy/alum isn't willing to take less to remain here, but it doesn't show they aren't amenable to staying.

The bottom line for me is that if you feel like you have a top 20 coach you should pay him like a top 20 coach, whether he is from Cincinnati or not.

Right now we aren't paying Chris like a top 20 coach. Maybe the admin doesn't feel like he is worthy of that, but if a good situation comes around where a school is willing to pay him a top 20 salary I don't think it would be all that surprising if he takes.

All of that is to say, if we want to keep a coach long term and we fancy ourselves a top 20 program we should start paying our coach accordingly. Whether that coach is from Cincinnati or not.

Does Xavier even have the money to be able to do that? My perception is no but maybe reality is different. I also don't see Mack as a top 20 coach either though.

[xavierj]

[/B]

Does Xavier even have the money to be able to do that? My perception is no but maybe reality is different. I also don't see Mack as a top 20 coach either though.

Mack is definitely a good coach. He has his oppotunities but the guy has been successful and it's not like he is landing can't miss NBA guys. Who do you see as top 20 coaches? Sometimes I wonder what realm of reality people live in. As for Money Xavier pays its coaches fine with the resources they have in my opinion. Chris is doing fine and has a ton of job security. He will also continue to get rewarded and is making 7 figures. What should Xavier pay? I have no clue what they can afford but the people making decisions probably do.

[NY44]

All of these complaints seems really unrealistic to me. There aren't many schools in the country that aren't possible stepping stones. Even Florida just lost their coach to another job. Roy Williams left Kansas!

We have coaches that have wild success and then land dream jobs. We don't have what Florida or Arizona has, and it would be along time before we do. I'll take being in this spot any day. Especially versus having a crappy coach we want to get rid of, which to remind you, some people on this board were saying about Mack 4 months ago.

"Sound like one of them good problems."

[paulxu]

It seems to me that coaching changes often take a bit of time to recover from the transition. Players de-committing, transferring, learning new system, re-start on recruiting, etc.

I want to get to a FF and be in that spot to contend for the title. It's damn near impossible for anyone not a P5. When it happens, it seems like the proverbial lightning in a bottle (Smart, Marshall, Stevens) and from that point there's a struggle to even get back to that point. Stevens Butler situation was flat out remarkable.

We've gone to E8's and each time lost the momentum to keep going with a coaching change. For that reason I want Mack to stay rather than starting again. I'd like to see the FF from his team this year or next, and then let the chips fall where they may. Perhaps that would elevate us to Villanova status and he'd stay to try and duplicate it with enough money from salary and increased endorsements to put us at that level of paying a coach.

Hell, I can dream can't I?

[Xville]

Mack is definitely a good coach. He has his oppotunities but the guy has been successful and it's not like he is landing can't miss NBA guys. Who do you see as top 20 coaches? Sometimes I wonder what realm of reality people live in. As for Money Xavier pays its coaches fine with the resources they have in my opinion. Chris is doing fine and has a ton of job security. He will also continue to get rewarded and is making 7 figures. What should Xavier pay? I have no clue what they can afford but the people making decisions probably do.

Larry Brown
Tony Bennett
Rick Pitino
John Calipari
Billy Donovan
Sean Miller
Jay Wright
Tom Izzo
Bo Ryan
Greg Marshall
Steve Fisher
Kevin Stallings
Bruce Pearl
Ben Howland
Kryz



are just a few guys I can think of....I don't think Mack is in that class. He can still be a good coach and not be within that realm. I think he is a good coach...nothing more, nothing less. The people fretting over him possibly leaving "because we would still be seen as a stepping stone" is just a little amusing to me because almost every college basketball program in America is a stepping stone job.

[kyxu]

Larry Brown
Tony Bennett
Rick Pitino
John Calipari
Billy Donovan
Sean Miller
Jay Wright
Tom Izzo
Bo Ryan
Greg Marshall
Steve Fisher
Kevin Stallings
Bruce Pearl
Ben Howland
Kryz



are just a few guys I can think of....I don't think Mack is in that class. He can still be a good coach and not be within that realm.

Much of your list I can't argue with, but Kevin Stallings? Really?

[GuyFawkes38]

All of these complaints seems really unrealistic to me. There aren't many schools in the country that aren't possible stepping stones. Even Florida just lost their coach to another job. Roy Williams left Kansas!

We have coaches that have wild success and then land dream jobs. We don't have what Florida or Arizona has, and it would be along time before we do. I'll take being in this spot any day. Especially versus having a crappy coach we want to get rid of, which to remind you, some people on this board were saying about Mack 4 months ago.

"Sound like one of them good problems."

Yes. And who knows. Arizona might not be able to keep Miller from the NBA or from UNC or whatever. If a college coach is under 50 and having a lot of success, there is likely some preferable place that has their eye on the coach.

This all seems to change after a coach reaches 50-55. At that age, coaches settle into a place for the long haul. But for every Izzo and Few there's a Martelli. It's not worth aiming old.

[Xville]

Much of your list I can't argue with, but Kevin Stallings? Really?

yeah you are absolutely right....strike that one from the record.

[LA Muskie]

It seems to me that coaching changes often take a bit of time to recover from the transition. Players de-committing, transferring, learning new system, re-start on recruiting, etc.
I get that it seems that way. But the program has advanced to greater heights (or at least consistency and overall success) with each successive coach since Staak. So I tend to think it's more perception bias (logic tells us there should be a drop-off) than reality.

[casualfan]

[/B]

Does Xavier even have the money to be able to do that? My perception is no but maybe reality is different. I also don't see Mack as a top 20 coach either though.

I don't see why we wouldn't given the new Big East TV Deal.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying I think Chris deserved to be paid more (i probably think he does, but haven't spent a whole lot of time thinking about it).

The larger point is that until we pay our coaches at a level where it isn't easy for other schools to come in and double their salary it's unrealistic to think we'll be able to retain coaches. You might find a guy who likes it here and is willing to take less, but that would be more the exception (Few) than the rule (hundreds of other coaches who have left their current spot for more $).


And I'm not talking about schools like UK or Louisville who pay their guys 5-6 mil. Everything I have read seems to indicate Florida will be somewhere just north of 2 mil.

Would it be nice if a guy stayed despite being offered significantly more elsewhere? Sure. Should we expect that? Hell no.

And I'm sure the "1 million plus is enough to live very comfortably" comments will follow this post. No doubt you can be comfortable at 1 mil plus. You know how you can be more comfortable? 2 mil plus. Then 3 mil plus, 4 mil plus, etc.

These guys haven't gotten to where they are without being a bit of an egomaniac and those higher salaries are as much a dick measuring contest as anything else.

[LA Muskie]

I don't see why we wouldn't given the new Big East TV Deal.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying I think Chris deserved to be paid more (i probably think he does, but haven't spent a whole lot of time thinking about it).

The larger point is that until we pay our coaches at a level where it isn't easy for other schools to come in and double their salary it's unrealistic to think we'll be able to retain coaches. You might find a guy who likes it here and is willing to take less, but that would be more the exception (Few) than the rule (hundreds of other coaches who have left their current spot for more $).


And I'm not talking about schools like UK or Louisville who pay their guys 5-6 mil. Everything I have read seems to indicate Florida will be somewhere just north of 2 mil.

Would it be nice if a guy stayed despite being offered significantly more elsewhere? Sure. Should we expect that? Hell no.

And I'm sure the "1 million plus is enough to live very comfortably" comments will follow this post. No doubt you can be comfortable at 1 mil plus. You know how you can be more comfortable? 2 mil plus. Then 3 mil plus, 4 mil plus, etc.

These guys haven't gotten to where they are without being a bit of an egomaniac and those higher salaries are as much a dick measuring contest as anything else.
My counterpoint is that I think the P5 schools will always have the ability to double our salaries. If we pay $2mm, then they will up their "standard" to $4mm. Unless we're willing to pay like the big boys like Wichita State (and we simply can't), we will never be able to compete in the salary arms race.

That said, I'm just not convinced it's the $$$ that makes these guys move. Like others have pointed out, a coach and his family can live VERY comfortably in Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky on $1+mm plus the perks of the job. The same holds true in cities like Indianapolis IN, Richmond VA, Spokane WA, and Wichita KS (although Marshall can now live comfortably anywhere...).

I'm not saying that money doesn't matter -- and certainly money talks -- but I'm just not convinced it's the primary motivating factor for the competitive types of guys who rise to the level of high major D1 coaches.

[casualfan]

My counterpoint is that I think the P5 schools will always have the ability to double our salaries. If we pay $2mm, then they will up their "standard" to $4mm. Unless we're willing to pay like the big boys like Wichita State (and we simply can't), we will never be able to compete in the salary arms race.

That said, I'm just not convinced it's the $$$ that makes these guys move. Like others have pointed out, a coach and his family can live VERY comfortably in Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky on $1+mm plus the perks of the job. The same holds true in cities like Indianapolis IN, Richmond VA, Spokane WA, and Wichita KS (although Marshall can now live comfortably anywhere...).

I'm not saying that money doesn't matter -- and certainly money talks -- but I'm just not convinced it's the primary motivating factor for the competitive types of guys who rise to the level of high major D1 coaches.

Ehh, idk. IMHO we could easily pay a coach over 2 mil and there aren't that many out there willing to pay over 4 mil for a bball coach.

Part of my point was that we're making it a lot easier for them to double us. Case in point Florida. If Mack was making at or near 2 mil he likely wouldn't be an option for them because of their self-imposed budget.

And regarding the money and being able to live comfortably I brought that up in my original post. It isn't necessarily the $, it's what the money represents.

Pitino ain't hurting for $ whatsoever, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think he's aware of the fact that Cal and K are paid more and isn't working to get to that level.

[LA Muskie]

Ehh, idk. IMHO we could easily pay a coach over 2 mil and there aren't that many out there willing to pay over 4 mil for a bball coach.

Part of my point was that we're making it a lot easier for them to double us. Case in point Florida. If Mack was making at or near 2 mil he likely wouldn't be an option for them because of their self-imposed budget.

And regarding the money and being able to live comfortably I brought that up in my original post. It isn't necessarily the $, it's what the money represents.

Pitino ain't hurting for $ whatsoever, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think he's aware of the fact that Cal and K are paid more and isn't working to get to that level.
I agree with you -- on this in particular -- 1 million percent. As for the rest, I'm not sure how easily we could pay Mack $2mm. We aren't flooded with donations, and while it's true that basketball is a money maker for the school that's sort of the point. Paying him an extra million takes that million from somewhere else. And my understanding is that there's not much fat left to trim. As it is, we're still sweating out admission/retention figures every year.

[markchal]

we aren't a mid major and we don't have the perception of being a mid major anymore. There are about 5 schools in college that aren't stepping stones. We aren't ever going to be one of those 5...coaches are going to leave and that's ok. The Mark Fews of the world don't exist outside of him.

It's insane to say there are only five schools that aren't stepping stones. Sure, once in awhile a Roy Williams leaves Kansas for UNC, but the jobs that would take the Kansas head coach away on its own are very few. I'm not saying we need a coach here for 30 years, but it would be nice to have someone here for longer than 7.

At the same time, at least we're in a position where people want our coaches all the time.

[Xville]

Ehh, idk. IMHO we could easily pay a coach over 2 mil and there aren't that many out there willing to pay over 4 mil for a bball coach.

Part of my point was that we're making it a lot easier for them to double us. Case in point Florida. If Mack was making at or near 2 mil he likely wouldn't be an option for them because of their self-imposed budget.

And regarding the money and being able to live comfortably I brought that up in my original post. It isn't necessarily the $, it's what the money represents.

Pitino ain't hurting for $ whatsoever, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think he's aware of the fact that Cal and K are paid more and isn't working to get to that level.

I think once you get over 1 mil or 1.5 mil, it becomes less about the money, and the more about being able to coach at a school better than the Xavier name as far as college basketball is concerned. Sorry that stings for some of you, but its true for most coaches when you reach a certain level...Mark Few not included.

[casualfan]

Sounds like we may want to buckle up. (http://cincinnati.247sports.com/Article/Florida-Gators-replacing-Billy-Donovan-and-Chris-Mack-an-option-37114247)

From the article:

Now 247Sports is hearing that Chris Mack is at the top of the list to replace Donovan.

One sources said that “Mack is in there deeper than anyone knows.”

Multiple sources reaffirmed this sentiment.



I'm sure people will take this with a grain of salt because it is a recruiting website, but Jerry Meyer is VERY tied in with the coaching scene. He was the first to have Shaka as Texas' top target while everyone else was on Marshall and he also was first to report Rick Barnes' interest in the UT situation.

[Xville]

It's insane to say there are only five schools that aren't stepping stones. Sure, once in awhile a Roy Williams leaves Kansas for UNC, but the jobs that would take the Kansas head coach away on its own are very few. I'm not saying we need a coach here for 30 years, but it would be nice to have someone here for longer than 7.

At the same time, at least we're in a position where people want our coaches all the time.

I might have exaggerated saying five but there really isn't that much more than that.

Duke
Kansas
UNC
Louisville
Kentucky
Arizona
Michigan State


What other schools would you add? Maybe Wisconsin, Ohio State, UCLA, Indiana?

[XU 87]

I might have exaggerated saying five but there really isn't that much more than that.

Duke
Kansas
UNC
Louisville
Kentucky
Arizona
Michigan State


What other schools would you add? Maybe Wisconsin, Ohio State, UCLA, Indiana?

Villanova, Georgetown, Purdue (two coaches in the last 35 years), Texas (they stay for 10 plus years and get fired), and I am sure there are more.

Donovan was at UF for about 19 years.

I bet the current guy will stay at Michigan for a long time.

Miami of Ohio. :)

[DoubleD86]

I might have exaggerated saying five but there really isn't that much more than that.

Duke
Kansas
UNC
Louisville
Kentucky
Arizona
Michigan State


What other schools would you add? Maybe Wisconsin, Ohio State, UCLA, Indiana?

I get what you are saying, but Kansas lost a coach to another College Basketball program and UK has worries of losing their coach to the NBA. The idea of a destination job is fuzzy at best. To have much confidence you would need to be a Top 5-10 program and you would still have worries about losing a coach.

Other note, a lot of the "destination jobs" people talk about are jobs that have had one coach there for a long time. A lot of them don't have a history of coaches staying for 15-30 years. Isn't it possible that those programs found the right coach more than they can keep any coach forever?

[Xville]

Villanova, Georgetown, Purdue (two coaches in the last 35 years), Texas (they stay for 10 plus years and get fired), and I am sure there are more.

Donovan was at UF for about 19 years.

I bet the current guy will stay at Michigan for a long time.

Miami of Ohio. :)

just because coaches stay there doesn't necessarily mean they aren't stepping stone jobs....are you telling me that Painter wouldn't go coach at UNC or Kentucky if offered? Jay Wright would bolt in a minute for either of those jobs as well.

[paulxu]

Paying him an extra million takes that million from somewhere else. And my understanding is that there's not much fat left to trim. As it is, we're still sweating out admission/retention figures every year.

I believe these types of changes have 2 primary components.
1 - money
2 - competitive spirit of the individual coach wanting to test himself at a higher and higher level, validated by the $ and the school involved.

I want X to be Villanova some day, then maybe the list of schools above it gets smaller and smaller.
As to the money, 2 years ago we were getting $350,000/yr from the A10. Today $3 + million from the BE...and the endowment from the ice people.

We should be able to pay Mack Villanova money, even if structured on a results oriented basis. Until we do, we're just a stepping stone. Not all that bad since it indicates success, but unlikely to get us to a FF which seems to require some consistency in coaching.

[xeus]

:)

XU87, please don't ever post a smiley face on this board again. If you were XULady87, or xaviergurl, or even XU2023 it might pass. But please...

[GoMuskies]

I don't know that a coach has EVER left Louisville for another job (you'd have to go back to before Peck Hickman's time to verify). I don't recall anyone ever leaving UNC for another job (not sure what happened pre-Dean). Ditto Duke, Arizona and Michigan State for my recollection.
"

[X-man]

Sounds like we may want to buckle up. (http://cincinnati.247sports.com/Article/Florida-Gators-replacing-Billy-Donovan-and-Chris-Mack-an-option-37114247)

From the article:

Now 247Sports is hearing that Chris Mack is at the top of the list to replace Donovan.

One sources said that “Mack is in there deeper than anyone knows.”

Multiple sources reaffirmed this sentiment.



I'm sure people will take this with a grain of salt because it is a recruiting website, but Jerry Meyer is VERY tied in with the coaching scene. He was the first to have Shaka as Texas' top target while everyone else was on Marshall and he also was first to report Rick Barnes' interest in the UT situation.

Thanks, troll. It's amazing how "connected" you are to (mis)information, especially when it is bad for the Muslies. Go back to the cryers' board where you belong.

[LA Muskie]

I get what you are saying, but Kansas lost a coach to another College Basketball program and UK has worries of losing their coach to the NBA. The idea of a destination job is fuzzy at best. To have much confidence you would need to be a Top 5-10 program and you would still have worries about losing a coach.

Other note, a lot of the "destination jobs" people talk about are jobs that have had one coach there for a long time. A lot of them don't have a history of coaches staying for 15-30 years. Isn't it possible that those programs found the right coach more than they can keep any coach forever?
I think both Kansas and Kentucky are "destination jobs" by just about any measure. Sure Roy left, but that was a relatively unique situation -- he was an alum of another of the few destination jobs and they came calling. And I don't think leaving for the NBA should have any bearing on whether a college is a "destination" job.

I think a destination job is one in which the vast majority of coaches (save situations like Roy Williams) would not leave the position voluntarily (directly or indirectly) for another college head coaching position. By that measure, I think Xville has the top of the list. UCLA and Indiana probably deserve to be up there as well. Then there is probably a 2nd tier where the odds of losing your coach are slightly greater, but still very low: Ohio State, Syracuse, and UConn immediately come to mind. I'm certain there are others.

[XU 87]

XU87, please don't ever post a smiley face on this board again. If you were XULady87, or xaviergurl, or even XU2023 it might pass. But please...

Well, how else do I say that "I'm joking"?

Sarcasm doesn't come across well when typed.

And I don't like your "anti-woman" comments.

P.S. :) as to the last sentence.

[LA Muskie]

Thanks, troll. It's amazing how "connected" you are to (mis)information, especially when it is bad for the Muslies. Go back to the cryers' board where you belong.
Dude, he's directly quoting an article online by a reputable sports blogger/reporter. Don't shoot the messenger...

[XU 87]

just because coaches stay there doesn't necessarily mean they aren't stepping stone jobs....are you telling me that Painter wouldn't go coach at UNC or Kentucky if offered? Jay Wright would bolt in a minute for either of those jobs as well.

If that's the criteria - would the coach leave for UK or UNC, then Kansas is a stepping stone since Williams left there for UNC.

[Xavier]

I feel like Xavier is a stepping stone into High major schools at the moment- when coaches go between high major schools it isn't really a stepping stone IMO. I think Mack leaving for Florida after the amount of time he spent at Xavier keeps us at that second tier. IMO, the ultimate goal for Xavier is to be Nova. A team that can absolutely contend- but when a top 10 school comes as other said- he heads there. Simply put, Jay Wright isn't leaving Nova for Florida.

[XU 87]

uh-oh

http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2015/5/4/8547959/chris-mack-xavier-billy-donovan-coaching-rumors-florida-ed-cooley-providence

[GreatWhiteNorth]

I seriously doubt that a small school like X, with its relatively limited resources and donations, can afford to compete with the big schools by paying a bball coach near 2 mil a year. Until the time that we have the $ to spend, the risk of losing our coaches to other schools over salaries will always be there. If this is the case with Mack, I just have to accept it......in pain!

[NY44]

I feel like Xavier is a stepping stone into High major schools at the moment- when coaches go between high major schools it isn't really a stepping stone IMO. I think Mack leaving for Florida after the amount of time he spent at Xavier keeps us at that second tier. IMO, the ultimate goal for Xavier is to be Nova. A team that can absolutely contend- but when a top 10 school comes as other said- he heads there. Simply put, Jay Wright isn't leaving Nova for Florida.

I heard Wright's name being thrown around with regards to Florida. I honestly think Mack is the better coach for the future. He does a lot more with what he's given than Wright does. It's hard to remove bias here, but if I'm a Florida fan, I'm much more interested in Mack's upside than Jay Wright's.

[casualfan]

Thanks, troll. It's amazing how "connected" you are to (mis)information, especially when it is bad for the Muslies. Go back to the cryers' board where you belong.

If posting thread-relevant links from reputable news sources is trolling, this board needs more trolls.

[X-man]

If posting thread-relevant links from reputable news sources is trolling, this board needs more trolls.

Your earlier post about salaries for Mack and Miller was completely bogus in spite of your "sources". But the troll charge stems from the fact that you only post stuff that is likely to bother Xavier fans. Just admit you are a "casual (UD) fan", and I have no problem with your reports...bogus or otherwise.

[casualfan]

Your earlier post about salaries for Mack and Miller was completely bogus in spite of your "sources". But the troll charge stems from the fact that you only post stuff that is likely to bother Xavier fans. Just admit you are a "casual (UD) fan", and I have no problem with your reports...bogus or otherwise.

You're right it was bogus. And if you look at my post I edited it to say that after I thought about it. The edit came 7 minutes after the original post where I was literally reading through dozens of pages on a FL board. I saw the listed buyout, posted it here, thought about it and realized it was a ridiculous number so I edited my post to say that.

If you don't like what I bring to the board use the ignore button.

I'm not going to stop posting things related to our program because you got your panties in a bunch.

[LA Muskie]

uh-oh

http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2015/5/4/8547959/chris-mack-xavier-billy-donovan-coaching-rumors-florida-ed-cooley-providence
This is the same info X-Man bashed casualfan for posting. In fact, the article simply refers to and links to the article casualfan initially posted.

PS: I know you weren't a part of that exchange, '87. Just pointing it out for others.

[LA Muskie]

Your earlier post about salaries for Mack and Miller was completely bogus in spite of your "sources". But the troll charge stems from the fact that you only post stuff that is likely to bother Xavier fans. Just admit you are a "casual (UD) fan", and I have no problem with your reports...bogus or otherwise.
Dude, he commented in the same exact post that he didn't think the information was accurate. Somebody has a case of the Mondays, it would appear...

[casualfan]

Dude, he commented in the same exact post that he didn't think the information was accurate. Somebody has a case of the Mondays, it would appear...

Appreciate it. If there's one thing I'm sure of its thst these situations can bring out the worst in fans.

[XU 87]

This is the same info X-Man bashed casualfan for posting. In fact, the article simply refers to and links to the article casualfan initially posted.

PS: I know you weren't a part of that exchange, '87. Just pointing it out for others.

you're right. essentially the same article.

[GoMuskies]

So other than Jim Les, who are the good candidates for the Xavier job? Assuming it's not Kelsey (meh) or Steele (too green?).

[paulxu]

I don't recall anyone ever leaving UNC for another job (not sure what happened pre-Dean).

Matt Doherty left UNC to take the HC job at Florida Atlantic.

[maketewahXalum]

I posted this on the HolyLand site, but I will post again here regarding Mack's salary:

Per the 2012 990 (nonprofit tax return) that Xavier filed with the IRS, Mack was paid $1,063,527. So for Xavier's 2012 fiscal year of 7/1/2012 - 6/30/2013, Mack was paid nearly $1.1 million. That was two year ago. He has since signed two more extensions, and Xavier has since received a lot more TV revenue through the Big East membership. I would bet he is closer to the $2 million compensation than some people think. I am not saying he makes that much, but I would bet he is very close to $1.5 million.

Here is a link to the 990 I pulled that compensation number from:

http://207.153.189.83/EINS/310537516/310537516_2012_0a6a9ff8.PDF

Go to Page 14...

[GoMuskies]

Matt Doherty left UNC to take the HC job at Florida Atlantic.

I think his career move immediately post-UNC was to go get his MBA.

Man, that guys is a really shitty basketball coach.

[X-band '01]

Matt Doherty left UNC to take the HC job at Florida Atlantic.

I thought he went to SMU after he was fired at Carolina.

[OTRMUSKIE]

My friends source who I have no clue who it is says Miller is taking the job. However I will not be surprised if Chris takes it and if he does I wish him the best of luck.

[X-band '01]

Upon further review, he did go to SMU after a 1-year stint at Florida Atlantic.

[paulxu]

All of which explains why he now works for ESPN.

[bobbiemcgee]

Then, there's this:

https://www.todaysu.com/mcbb/sec-basketball/its-archie-miller-or-bust-at-florida/

[LA Muskie]

Then, there's this:

https://www.todaysu.com/mcbb/sec-basketball/its-archie-miller-or-bust-at-florida/
There is that. But unlike Jerry Meyer's article -- which cited numerous unnamed sources -- this one reads more like an opinion column. He doesn't claim to have any inside insight into Foley's decision-making process. He just thinks Miller would be the best hire.

[casualfan]

Then, there's this:

https://www.todaysu.com/mcbb/sec-basketball/its-archie-miller-or-bust-at-florida/


I could be wrong but I don't think that guy is actually reporting anything. To me that reads like an opinion piece.

[bobbiemcgee]

and this:

https://twitter.com/osgators

[throwbackmuskie]

Macks not leaving. Some of you need to get over yourselves. As far as the Mondays comments, I believe people you say you have a case of the Mondays deserve to get the shit beat out of them-office space


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Masterofreality]

From the Florida beat writer for the last 12 years.

"@gatorhoops: Silly season is in earnest. Told report that #Gators and Xavier's Chris Mack are in "deep discussions" isn't accurate."

[LA Muskie]

Macks not leaving. Some of you need to get over yourselves. As far as the Mondays comments, I believe people you say you have a case of the Mondays deserve to get the shit beat out of them-office space
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for your contribution.

[LA Muskie]

From the Florida beat writer for the last 12 years.

"@gatorhoops: Silly season is in earnest. Told report that #Gators and Xavier's Chris Mack are in "deep discussions" isn't accurate."
Thanks MOR. Can't say that surprises me but I'm glad to hear someone other than a Xavier beat reporter say it. I don't doubt there is interest -- probably mutual, possibly significant. And things may get dicey in the coming days/weeks. But the notion that they were already in deep discussions seemed far-fetched.

[xsteve1]

I still think Miller is probably the guy who they'll target. He's about 10 years younger and probably a better long term fit.

[Masterofreality]

Macks not leaving. Some of you need to get over yourselves. As far as the Mondays comments, I believe people you say you have a case of the Mondays deserve to get the shit beat out of them-office space


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm with Throwback. I think CMack will be contacted, he will listen, but won't be going anywhere.

[throwbackmuskie]

Thanks for your contribution.

I guess I could take a page out of your book and talk about which cities are a "destination". Or some false rumors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[throwbackmuskie]

I'm with Throwback. I think CMack will be contacted, he will listen, but won't be going anywhere.

Bingo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbiemcgee]

No worries until you see this at Lunken:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/colleges/files/2014/12/foley-mcelwain-plane.jpg

[X-man]

Dude, he commented in the same exact post that he didn't think the information was accurate. Somebody has a case of the Mondays, it would appear...

Dude, that information was manifestly NOT accurate. So why post such BS when it clearly isn't true? Go ask casual (ud) fan why he posted it.

[OTRMUSKIE]

My friend source now says Mack to Florida by weeks end. Do we go after Archie? The millers owe us one.

[LA Muskie]

I find it very interesting (seriously, I mean that in the truest sense of the word) how different people handle the news that Mack is possibly a candidate, that he possibly might be interested, and that he possibly might take the job. Or not. It really is a study in human psychology.

[xavierj]

I find it very interesting (seriously, I mean that in the truest sense of the word) how different people handle the news that Mack is possibly a candidate, that he possibly might be interested, and that he possibly might take the job. Or not. It really is a study in human psychology.

I agree. People think just because they have a different opinion than you that you are a dumb idiot. No one knows. Would he be interested? Probably. Would he take it? He might. I think about the only truth out there is that the Florida AD is taking his time. In my opinion Chris has not been contacted and if he is as mediocre as some on here believe then why would Florida bother?

[xudash]

I find it very interesting (seriously, I mean that in the truest sense of the word) how different people handle the news that Mack is possibly a candidate, that he possibly might be interested, and that he possibly might take the job. Or not. It really is a study in human psychology.

Which city is on the docket for discussion tomorrow LA?

[gladdenguy]

Who will be the candidates for Xavier?
Steele
Kelsey
Any head coaches?

I just hope nobody transfers out. If Gates decides to opt out that wouldn't surprise me but the most important part is not losing the 10.
Abell
Farr
Jalen
Myles
Trevon
JP
Edmond
Sean
Makinde
Larry
Would any of those 10 leave?

[LA Muskie]

Which city is on the docket for discussion tomorrow LA?
I'd like to hear more about Wichita, KS. It sounds nice.

[GoMuskies]

I'd like to hear more about Wichita, KS. It sounds nice.
I'll get out the Chamber of Commerce material. Maybe sneak by Coach Marshall ' s place and take a photo in the morning.

[xudash]

I'd like to hear more about Wichita, KS. It sounds nice.

Wichita is on the clock.

As a big Pat Methany fan, allow me to lead with this much:

AS FALLS WICHITA, SO FALLS WICHITA FALLS.

[RoseyMuskie]

Who will be the candidates for Xavier?
Steele
Kelsey
Any head coaches?

I just hope nobody transfers out. If Gates decides to opt out that wouldn't surprise me but the most important part is not losing the 10.
Abell
Farr
Jalen
Myles
Trevon
JP
Edmond
Sean
Makinde
Larry
Would any of those 10 leave?

I could see Trevon leaving. But I don't believe Myles, Jalen, Remy, Makinde, or Sumner would leave because they've all sat out a year. I can't see Farr transferring now. JP and Sean would likely stay, as X's competition was comparable in stature back in their recruiting days. Trevon would be my only concern given the fact that he's the highest rated and had elite programs chasing him.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Much of your list I can't argue with, but Kevin Stallings? Really?

Yeah this. Yikes

[Backyard Champ]

Gladdenguy has to be the king of overreactions. Wanted Mack out all season, then after NCAA run he flipped and stated what a great coach he is, and now he's already counting what players are leaving and staying.

[D-West & PO-Z]

After Miller left, after initially saying no, I vowed I would never be fooled again and never say never. No idea if Mack will leave or not but it wouldnt surprise me. I wouldnt blame him. It would suck and I'd be a little bitter initially but it is what it is. I will be nervous about coaching search. I usually think its best to hire from within for continuity but only if the next guy is truly ready. Is Steele ready? I dont know enough about him but my initial thought is no. Miller and Mack were no brainers. Hiring from the outside is scary and would be a big test for Christopher.

Really hope Mack stays, however like others have said, if it is going to happen it is probably pretty good for it to happen in a year where we only have 1 recruit.

[xudash]

Watching the local news here in Jacksonville. They just had a report on Donovan saying goodbye in Gainesville. They then put up a list of who they believe are the top candidates for the job. The two existing assistants were mentioned. Pitino was then mentioned as the first external coach. And then they put up a graphic showing Archie Miller, Xavier! The sportscaster verbalized Miller at Dayton, but the graphic was obviously off.

What to think of all of that? Obviously, not much. One angle you could take it is to argue once again that it is a football school: if the sportscasters here can't even get coaching affiliations down correctly, you have to wonder how much they care about it, or maybe they have jobs in the 'Ville for a reason.

[CinciX12]

Only our fan base can all season say how we are underachieving, blame Mack, and then when it is rumored another school wants him be terrified he will leave us.

[Caveat]

I may be mis-remembering, but didn't Christopher whiff pretty badly on his only basketball hire when he was AD at Bowling Green?

[GoMuskies]

Only our fan base can all season say how we are underachieving, blame Mack, and then when it is rumored another school wants him be terrified he will leave us.

I don't see a whole lot of terror. This is easily the least on edge I've seen the message board fans going through one of these since Prosser. And other than gladden. I don't see the folks who were hard on Mack during the year posting that they're worried about Mack leaving.

[MuskieFN]

I may be mis-remembering, but didn't Christopher whiff pretty badly on his only basketball hire when he was AD at Bowling Green?

Yes. He hired Louis Orr, who actually won the MAC in his second year. Then he went 69-90 in the next 5 years.

[NY44]

Just looking around Floridas coaching history. They hired Donovan at the age of 30! That's an unbelievably good hire.

[bleedXblue]

Just looking around Floridas coaching history. They hired Donovan at the age of 30! That's an unbelievably good hire.

Hence the reason why I think they target Archie first. He's close to 10 years younger than Mack and has the family lineage going for him as well.

If Miller passes, I think Mack has to be one of the next guys they look at.

I'm not understanding the Richard Pitino interest. He hasn't done a thing at the head coaching level.

[Masterofreality]

I'll get out the Chamber of Commerce material. Maybe sneak by Coach Marshall ' s place and take a photo in the morning.

Are you saying that Wichita "sneaked (snuck) up" on the nation as to quality of life?

[Juice]

Chris Mack's new car

http://bustedcoverage.com/2015/05/04/buy-this-custom-florida-gators-jeep-wrangler-74550/

[boozehound]

I like Chris Mack as a coach overall, but I don't think he is a 'once in a lifetime' type of coach that cannot be replaced. If he is going to leave, this is probably a pretty good offseason for it to happen since we don't havbe much of a recruiting class coming in. The fact that it is May kind of sucks though. Early April would have been better, particularly if we decided to seriously look outside of the program.

Xavier is, unfortunately, very likely to have to replace their coach every 5-7 years. That is just our reality. We are not a top-tier program and we cannot pay top-tier money. Coaches are, by nature, hyper-competitive and always looking for the next challenge, or a perceived higher 'stature' position. I would rather have to replace young, competitive, coaches every so often than have a mediocre coach overstay his welcome.

That's not to say Mack will leave for Florida if offered, although I would expect him to definitely listen. If Florida is willing to pay between $3MM and $4MM it will be difficult for him to turn them down though.

[GoMuskies]

I haven't heard Ben Jacobson's name come up this carousel cycle. I wonder why that is. Maybe I just missed it.

[XUPhilly04]

Hence the reason why I think they target Archie first. He's close to 10 years younger than Mack and has the family lineage going for him as well.

If Miller passes, I think Mack has to be one of the next guys they look at.

I'm not understanding the Richard Pitino interest. He hasn't done a thing at the head coaching level.

If his name was Richard Pinto, I question whether he would even be the HC of Minnesota.

[XUPhilly04]

I haven't heard Ben Jacobson's name come up this carousel cycle. I wonder why that is. Maybe I just missed it.

I believe that his name came up for mid/lower power 5 jobs after the sweet 16 run, but he gave those jobs the Mark Few treatment, and hasn't had his name come up otherwise since. With what he did this year, maybe that changes.

[BandAid]

I haven't heard Ben Jacobson's name come up this carousel cycle. I wonder why that is. Maybe I just missed it.

I've been told Ben Jacobson is a small town guy, that he wouldn't even consider moving to a mid-size city.


If his name was Richard Pinto, I question whether he would even be the HC of Minnesota.

Richard is a part of Donovan's coaching tree, which plays a factor as well in this situation.

[Masterofreality]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Just Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Cheesehead]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Just Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

MOR, you can't keave us hanging like this. WTH?

[markchal]

If I'm Florida I go with Miller all day. Honestly, if Mack didn't have a history here and wasn't an alum, would you rather have Mack or Miller coaching this team? Although it may appease your fanbase more to get a coach from a major conference instead of a mid-major.

[LA Muskie]

If I'm Flordia I go with Miller all day. Honestly, if Mack didn't have a history here and wasn't an alum, would you rather have Mack or Miller coaching this team? Miller has impressed considering he's been stuck at a mid major.
Honestly I'd take Mack. He's more consistent, and has succeeded on a grander stage for longer. He has led his team to the tourney 5 of his 6 years at the helm (83%) -- achieving seeds as high as 6 (3x), advancing to the Sweet 16 three times and posting a 6-5 overall tournament record. He also successfully transitioned the program into the Big East.

On the other hand, Miller has made the tourney only twice in his 4 years (50%), both times squeaking in as an 11 seed. Sure they've over-achieved in the tourney (5-2 overall record, including a play-in game), but that's mostly owed to the Elite 8 appearance. And I don't think it offsets missing the tournament 50% of the time.

Archie is younger, so that may have some appeal. But it's not like Chris is old. I don't think the age differential is material, particularly given Chris's personality (which I don't want to call immature, but is certainly energetic and appealing to players/recruits).

[markchal]

I think both have proven to be very effective young coaches. Mack inherited a team with Jordan Crawford and got the program's best PG as a sophomore, Miller had more of a mess to take over from. No question Mack has out-recruited him, but it's a lot tougher to get people to play in a hellhole of a city in a garbage conference than it is to play in the Big East at a school with great basketball tradition.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure I'd pick either of them if I was in Florida's shoes. Not with Jim Les sitting out there with his 207-212 career record.

[LA Muskie]

I think both have proven to be very effective young coaches. Mack inherited a team with Jordan Crawford and got the program's best PG as a sophomore, Miller had more of a mess to take over from. No question Mack has out-recruited him, but it's a lot tougher to get people to play in a hellhole of a city in a garbage conference than it is to play in the Big East at a school with great basketball tradition.
I don't disagree. Archie is a very good coach, and I'm sure he will develop into a great coach. Maybe his ceiling is higher, I don't know. But I think we have tended to diminish Chris's value and underestimate his worth. There's a reason he's been mentioned for nearly every high-major opening.

[Cheesehead]

I'm not sure I'd pick either of them if I was in Florida's shoes. Not with Jim Les sitting out there.

Oh, that is good stuff, right there!

[casualfan]

Honestly I'd take Mack. He's more consistent, and has succeeded on a grander stage for longer. He has led his team to the tourney 5 of his 6 years at the helm (83%) -- achieving seeds as high as 6 (3x), advancing to the Sweet 16 three times and posting a 6-5 overall tournament record. He also successfully transitioned the program into the Big East.

On the other hand, Miller has made the tourney only twice in his 4 years (50%), both times squeaking in as an 11 seed. Sure they've over-achieved in the tourney (5-2 overall record, including a play-in game), but that's mostly owed to the Elite 8 appearance. And I don't think it offsets missing the tournament 50% of the time.

Archie is younger, so that may have some appeal. But it's not like Chris is old. I don't think the age differential is material, particularly given Chris's personality (which I don't want to call immature, but is certainly energetic and appealing to players/recruits).

I don't think the age comes in to play at all. As you mentioned they are both relatively young.

It's not like we're talking about a 65 year old in Mack. He is still very very young by coaching standards.

I've read a few places that the search could come to a halt as early as tomorrow (although that was a few days ago so not sure if that's still an accurate potential timeline or not).

I know Foley has publicly said the search could take upto a month, but I think that was him deflecting at the Billy D presser to give him a proper send off without the journos hammering him on search related questions.

I think the fact that things have been pretty quiet to this point has been interesting. I would not be surprised at all if he pulled a candidate out of left field no one is really talking about.

[markchal]

I don't disagree. Archie is a very good coach, and I'm sure he will develop into a great coach. Maybe his ceiling is higher, I don't know. But I think we have tended to diminish Chris's value and underestimate his worth. There's a reason he's been mentioned for nearly every high-major opening.

I agree with that. I think part of it is he had really big shoes to fill, Miller is an exceptional coach. There's been some off-court issues, and two of our sweet 16 seasons had us fighting to even make the field in the last week of the regular season. It's where you finish that counts, and people outside the program look more at just the results, which you can't really argue now.

[paulxu]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Just Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

= wakes up to find out his ticket on Dortmund was for win/place...no show.

[Masterofreality]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Just Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.


MOR, you can't keave us hanging like this. WTH?

Sorry Wags. Just not sure if 1+1 is adding up here.

[Wheelhouse]

My biggest concern is not if Chris Mack leaves, it's whether or not Greg Christopher will make a great hire if Mack does in fact leave.

[kyxu]

My biggest concern is not if Chris Mack leaves, it's whether or not Greg Christopher will make a great hire if Mack does in fact leave.

I think that's the concern of 90% of the people on this board.

[mid major]

= wakes up to find out his ticket on Dortmund was for win/place...no show.

Borussia Dortmund-their coach quit

[The Coz]

I informed Snipe yesterday about the Donovon departure. His biggest concern is the chance his beloved Flyers lose Archie...also, he added Skip Prosser was the best husband of all our former coaches. So there is that.

[The Coz]

Oh, and he slurred something about our next coach being King Kenny.

[TUclutch]

My biggest concern is not if Chris Mack leaves, it's whether or not Greg Christopher will make a great hire if Mack does in fact leave.

If Chris leaves, Travis Steele has the job. Id bet my life on it.

[Milhouse]

If Chris leaves, Travis Steele has the job. Id bet my life on it.

If Bobinski was the AD still then certainly....2 years into his job I don't think ANYONE knows exactly what Christopher Gregg would do. He may want to go outside and make his own hire as opposed to hiring a 32 year old from within.

[bleedXblue]

The formula for successful coaches has been to higher from within. Much more risky going outside unless you could get an Archie Miller type.....and then you have to worry about that person moving on in another 2-3 years b/c they get a ridiculous financial offer.

[Muskie]

Florida's AD says he plans to have a coach in place sometime in June. Sounds like he's taking his time? (Or it means a hiring is imminent).

[casualfan]

Florida's AD says he plans to have a coach in place sometime in June. Sounds like he's taking his time? (Or it means a hiring is imminent).

Who really knows, but IMHO that was his way of deflecting any coaching search related questions during the Donovan presser.

I could be wrong, but unless they are waiting for someone currently involved in the NBA playoffs I don't see any reason to wait that long.

[X-band '01]

Who really knows, but IMHO that was his way of deflecting any coaching search related questions during the Donovan presser.

I could be wrong, but unless they are waiting for someone currently involved in the NBA playoffs I don't see any reason to wait that long.

With recruiting in a quiet period right now, it gives Florida more time to do their due diligence than if they had to make a hire during the regular recruiting period in March.

[casualfan]

With recruiting in a quiet period right now, it gives Florida more time to do their due diligence than if they had to make a hire during the regular recruiting period in March.

Oh I agree with that. I just don't think it will take anywhere near a month. I could see it being another week or two, but even then you are still just in mid-May.

The only way I think it takes until June is if they start swinging and missing on guys. I could be wrong though. Wouldn't be the first time and certainly won't be the last. :laugh:

[XUPhilly04]

Just personal speculation, but maybe Foley is waiting for someone from the NBA, whose season is still going on. Chicago's Tom Thibodeau? Per reports, he will be fired after the Bulls season. Some reports already show Lawrence Frank with the Clippers is a candidate. I don't see Thibodeau leaving the NBA, so maybe it's Frank. Bottom line, it doesn't seem that Foley's search will be limited to college coaches.

[Cheesehead]

Just personal speculation, but maybe Foley is waiting for someone from the NBA, whose season is still going on. Chicago's Tom Thibodeau? Per reports, he will be fired after the Bulls season. Some reports already show Lawrence Frank with the Clippers is a candidate. I don't see Thibodeau leaving the NBA, so maybe it's Frank. Bottom line, it doesn't seem that Foley's search will be limited to college coaches.

I cannot see Tom Thibodeau sitting in an 18 year old's living room and imploring the kid to come to Florida. Same goes for Lawrence Frank. I would be shocked they go outside college circle.

[markchal]

The formula for successful coaches has been to higher from within. Much more risky going outside unless you could get an Archie Miller type.....and then you have to worry about that person moving on in another 2-3 years b/c they get a ridiculous financial offer.

This made sense when we were in the A10 and steadily groomed successors, does it make sense now? Steele just became associate hc and can we really wait while he learns how to be a HC? I think I'd rather have an Archie type or another successful mm coach.

[ammtd34]

This made sense when we were in the A10 and steadily groomed successors, does it make sense now? Steele just became associate hc and can we really wait while he learns how to be a HC? I think I'd rather have an Archie type or another successful mm coach.

Isn't Steele basically in Archie Miller's position 4 years ago?

[XU-XHI]

This made sense when we were in the A10 and steadily groomed successors, does it make sense now? Steele just became associate hc and can we really wait while he learns how to be a HC? I think I'd rather have an Archie type or another successful mm coach.

Oh how funny it would be if Mack did leave and X went after and got Archie. I think I will be teasing all my ud fan friends with that idea. They'll cringe.

[Olsingledigit]

Oh how funny it would be if Mack did leave and X went after and got Archie. I think I will be teasing all my ud fan friends with that idea. They'll cringe.

I wouldn't want Archie because X would simply be another stepping stone for him and he wouldn't last three years. Plus I doubt he would take an offer from X anyway.

[XU-XHI]

I wouldn't want Archie because X would simply be another stepping stone for him and he wouldn't last three years. Plus I doubt he would take an offer from X anyway.
Neither would I, but you miss the point. It still would be fun to screw with ud fans over the idea. Likening it to Matta leaving Butler in the Horizon for X in the A10. It will drive them to a nearby watermelon stand.

[boozehound]

Isn't Steele basically in Archie Miller's position 4 years ago?

Everybody was an assistant once, but that doesn't mean I would love the idea of hiring a relatively inexperienced assistant to be the head coach. I wouldn't hate it if it happened, but I would be a little concerned. Ultimately I'm not sure what our options look like if Mack leaves.

The problem with where Xavier is from a coaching standpoint is that we aren't a big time school with big time money ($2.5MM+) to throw at a proven head coach, but we are about as big as it gets at the next lowest tier (if that makes sense). Unfortunately that generally relegates us to 2 kinds of hires: Has-beens that got fired, and up-and-coming assistants. Given those choices I prefer the up-and-coming assistants, but I would rather Steele have a bit more experience as the top assistant.

[danaandvictory]

There is also the option of hiring a really good head coach at a mid-major, like Dan Hurley or Michael White.

Steele has been X's top assistant since Kelsey quit, and has been coaching since he was 20. I don't have any concerns about his ability to take the keys, especially since he has already demonstrated he is a phenomenal recruiter. He's also 3 years older than Donovan was when he got the Florida job two decades ago.

I actually love Xavier's options should Mack depart. I'd rather he stayed obviously but I think X is in a strong position.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It would be interesting to know how much the responsibilities of an assistant coach change when they go from being the "top assistant" to the "associate head coach". Does Mack all of a suddent trust him with more/give him more responsibility with the title change or with it more of a respect and raise type thing? If he truly takes on more of the game planning or scouting or has more responsibility than it would obviously be beneficial if he had at least a couple seasons of that before becoming the head coach at XU but if his responsibilities dont really change and its more of a respect/raise thing than having a year or two more with that title probably doesnt change much.

Given all that I dont know how to feel about Steele either way. I like the continuity but I dont feel like he is an automatic choice like Miller and Mack were.

[casualfan]

There is also the option of hiring a really good head coach at a mid-major, like Dan Hurley or Michael White.

Steele has been X's top assistant since Kelsey quit, and has been coaching since he was 20. I don't have any concerns about his ability to take the keys, especially since he has already demonstrated he is a phenomenal recruiter. He's also 3 years older than Donovan was when he got the Florida job two decades ago.

I actually love Xavier's options should Mack depart. I'd rather he stayed obviously but I think X is in a strong position.

The more I think about the more I think that IF Mack is going to leave this would be a good year for it to happen.

The reason being that we don't have a big recruiting class this year (only one guy signed).

I think at this point it is pretty clear that Chris is open to leaving. That's not to say he will definitely do so, but he's definitely been involved in the mix the last few years.

IF it's going to happen i would prefer it happen this year with a small class as opposed to next year when we'll have as many as 3 or 4 guys signed who we might end up losing.

EDIT: I just saw that Tyler Cook released his top 6 and Florida is on it. If there is any doubt the Florida job is a good one that's a 4 star player not from Florida who has them in his top group despite them not having a coach.

[danaandvictory]

My understanding is that there is no functional difference between being the senior assistant and Associate Head Coach, other than a nice bump in pay.

[D-West & PO-Z]

My understanding is that there is no functional difference between being the senior assistant and Associate Head Coach, other than a nice bump in pay.

This would make me feel better. I figured that but wasnt sure.

[Wheelhouse]

I don't think Steele will be the head coach if Mack leaves. In my opinion, he's a great recruiter but he's not head coach material, at least not yet. I guess Kelsey is possible, but I'm not sure if the athletic department has a sour taste in their mouth about how that situation played out (although it was under the previous regime). My guess would be an up-and-coming assistant or a mid-major coach is the way they'll go, but who knows?

I'd like to think that with the new league and new dollars we'll be able to attract quality candidates, but I guess that would also lead you to believe that we can pay Mack enough to stay. I'll actually be surprised if Mack goes to Florida. It's not like it's a destination job. That program was more about Donovan than anything else. Once he left it's a football school that cares little about basketball. Even when he was there that's what it was.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't think Steele will be the head coach if Mack leaves. In my opinion, he's a great recruiter but he's not head coach material, at least not yet. I guess Kelsey is possible, but I'm not sure if the athletic department has a sour taste in their mouth about how that situation played out (although it was under the previous regime). My guess would be an up-and-coming assistant or a mid-major coach is the way they'll go, but who knows?

I'd like to think that with the new league and new dollars we'll be able to attract quality candidates, but I guess that would also lead you to believe that we can pay Mack enough to stay. I'll actually be surprised if Mack goes to Florida. It's not like it's a destination job. That program was more about Donovan than anything else. Once he left it's a football school that cares little about basketball. Even when he was there that's what it was.

I would think Mack would be highly interested even if it is a football school. Donovan parlayed his success at a football school into a job in the NBA. Coaches all think they are great so I am sure Mack thinks he can duplicate any success Donovan had (and maybe he can). Plus the money will probably be pretty good.

I just think saying the program was all about that coach as a reason another coach might not take it silly because it would basically amount to that coach saying they didnt believe in themselves to keep that going.

[xu82]

I would think Mack would be highly interested even if it is a football school. Donovan parlayed his success at a football school into a job in the NBA. Coaches all think they are great so I am sure Mack thinks he can duplicate any success Donovan had (and maybe he can). Plus the money will probably be pretty good.

I just think saying the program was all about that coach as a reason another coach might not take it silly because it would basically amount to that coach saying they didnt believe in themselves to keep that going.

Yes, truck loads of cash have often been a factor in the past. To worry that he wouldn't want to follow in so-and-so's shoes gets lost in that, I'd think. Not that the cash is the only factor, but it's got a way of swaying people's feelings. Funny how that works...

[XU 87]

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/columnists/paul-daugherty/2015/05/06/daugherty-chris-mack-xavier-florida/70905768/

[kyxu]

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/columnists/paul-daugherty/2015/05/06/daugherty-chris-mack-xavier-florida/70905768/

Oh, God. Chris Mack is gone.

[LA Muskie]

I don't think Steele will be the head coach if Mack leaves. In my opinion, he's a great recruiter but he's not head coach material, at least not yet. I guess Kelsey is possible, but I'm not sure if the athletic department has a sour taste in their mouth about how that situation played out (although it was under the previous regime). My guess would be an up-and-coming assistant or a mid-major coach is the way they'll go, but who knows?

I'd like to think that with the new league and new dollars we'll be able to attract quality candidates, but I guess that would also lead you to believe that we can pay Mack enough to stay. I'll actually be surprised if Mack goes to Florida. It's not like it's a destination job. That program was more about Donovan than anything else. Once he left it's a football school that cares little about basketball. Even when he was there that's what it was.
But Steele is an up-and-coming assistant. Why take someone else's, when we already have one right under our noses? I personally think hiring Steele would be a no-brainer.

That said, the more I think about it, I'm not convinced Mack would (or should) take the UF job if offered. Although I think he probably owes it to himself and his family to listen.

For me it comes down to the fact that basketball has been KING at every stop in his basketball career -- be it Evansville (as a player), Xavier (as both player and coach) or Wake Forest (as an assistant). I think it ultimately would prove very difficult for him to deal with not being in that position anymore. It certainly would be for me, if I was in his shoes.

[xu82]

I have no idea, so of course I'll share my clueless thoughts. You're welcome. College hoops is mostly about recruiting. Steele seems to be the stud recruiter. He's got the backup title now. He may have spurned other offers. If anything happens, for better or for worse, the needle seems to point that way. I hope it's the right direction.

[XUFan09]

I don't understand the seemingly kneejerk reactions that Steele is not ready yet, when his current experience isn't that different from what Mack's was when hired.

[xu82]

I don't understand the seemingly kneejerk reactions that Steele is not ready yet, when his current experience isn't that different from what Mack's was when hired.

I agree (said the lazy man who wouldn't bother to look up ages and number of years as assistants, quality of programs, etc.).

Hint: Do you have the scoop?

[gladdenguy]

Gladdenguy has to be the king of overreactions. Wanted Mack out all season, then after NCAA run he flipped and stated what a great coach he is, and now he's already counting what players are leaving and staying.

I am exactly that.....the king of overreaction. Don't take it seriously. I also love Mack no matter how frustrated I am with him. He is my favorite Xavier coach and it's not even close.

[BMoreX]

I don't understand the seemingly kneejerk reactions that Steele is not ready yet, when his current experience isn't that different from what Mack's was when hired.

I have been thinking the exact same thing every time people bring up that Steele "isn't ready."

[DC Muskie]

I'm confused. Would we be upset with Travis left? If he's not ready, then what does that say about the staff we currently have?

And when are we going to find Carter's replacement? Did I miss that?

[XUFan09]

I agree (said the lazy man who wouldn't bother to look up ages and number of years as assistants, quality of programs, etc.).

Hint: Do you have the scoop?
Lol I looked it up and posted it like a month ago, but now I'm too lazy to doublecheck my recall. I think Mack had three years as an assistant at Wake, while Steele had half a year at Indiana. Steele has a little more experience in support roles (on staff but not an assistant). They both had five years as a Xavier assistant. Keep in mind that the "associate" tag isn't that meaningful in terms of responsibility.

Before college coaching, Steele has the edge. Coaching AAU players (future college players) beats out coaching Mt. St. Joe's girls.

[XUFan09]

I'm confused. Would we be upset with Travis left? If he's not ready, then what does that say about the staff we currently have?

And when are we going to find Carter's replacement? Did I miss that?
This stuff probably needs to die down first before we get a new assistant. We're in a dead period anyway, so it's not that pressing.

[XUPhilly04]

This stuff probably needs to die down first before we get a new assistant. We're in a dead period anyway, so it's not that pressing.

Agreed, I'm guessing that a key question for any potential hire will be "who can you bring with you?" Hopefully, shortly after Carter's replacement is hired, we will see a 2016 commit. I have no idea who in particular. Just wishful thinking.

[muskienick]

Lol I looked it up and posted it like a month ago, but now I'm too lazy to doublecheck my recall. I think Mack had three years as an assistant at Wake, while Steele had half a year at Indiana. Steele has a little more experience in support roles (on staff but not an assistant). They both had five years as a Xavier assistant. Keep in mind that the "associate" tag isn't that meaningful in terms of responsibility.

Before college coaching, Steele has the edge. Coaching AAU players (future college players) beats out coaching Mt. St. Joe's girls.

I thought Chris coached the varsity as Ursuline High School in Cincinnati (not Mt. St. Joe's).

[D-West & PO-Z]

I thought Chris coached the varsity as Ursuline High School in Cincinnati (not Mt. St. Joe's).

I thought it was Mount Notre Dame

[casualfan]

I thought it was Mount Notre Dame

Correct.

[muskienick]

Lol I looked it up and posted it like a month ago, but now I'm too lazy to doublecheck my recall. I think Mack had three years as an assistant at Wake, while Steele had half a year at Indiana. Steele has a little more experience in support roles (on staff but not an assistant). They both had five years as a Xavier assistant. Keep in mind that the "associate" tag isn't that meaningful in terms of responsibility.

Before college coaching, Steele has the edge. Coaching AAU players (future college players) beats out coaching Mt. St. Joe's girls.

Chris didn't coach women's college basketball. He coached the girls' JV team at McAuley High and the varsity at Mt. Notre Dame High, both in Cincinnati.

[Juice]

I thought it was Mount Notre Dame

Hoes on the Hill

[markchal]

I don't understand the seemingly kneejerk reactions that Steele is not ready yet, when his current experience isn't that different from what Mack's was when hired.

To be fair, Mack was taking over a team in the A10. I think some people think the conference change has boosted the program enough that we can get a HC who doesn't have to learn on the job like Miller and Mack did.

[XUFan09]

Chris didn't coach women's college basketball. He coached the girls' JV team at McAuley High and the varsity at Mt. Notre Dame High, both in Cincinnati.

I meant to say Mt. Notre Dame, not Mt. St. Joe's.

[XUFan09]

To be fair, Mack was taking over a team in the A10. I think some people think the conference change has boosted the program enough that we can get a HC who doesn't have to learn on the job like Miller and Mack did.

I can understand that reasoning to a degree, but the stature of the program isn't that different from when Miller left. Xavier had just advanced to the second round three years in a row, with an Elite Eight and a Sweet 16 included while getting a 3 seed and a 4 seed in the last two years (Mack's highest seed being a 6).

[paulxu]

On HOH someone posted a link to the 990's on the web for all non profits.
Looking at XU's recent history shows these numbers, each of which includes small bonuses and other compensation from the school.

Miller 2004 $328,760
Miller 2008 $655,989
Mack 2009 $484,389
Mack 2012 $1,109,455

Have no idea what these guys can make on outside deals; shoes, radio, etc.
But even before the BE, and the endowed position, Mack was significantly ahead of what Sean made in his last year.

[NY44]

I can understand that reasoning to a degree, but the stature of the program isn't that different from when Miller left. Xavier had just advanced to the second round three years in a row, with an Elite Eight and a Sweet 16 included while getting a 3 seed and a 4 seed in the last two years (Mack's highest seed being a 6).


On HOH someone posted a link to the 990's on the web for all non profits.
Looking at XU's recent history shows these numbers, each of which includes small bonuses and other compensation from the school.

Miller 2004 $328,760
Miller 2008 $655,989
Mack 2009 $484,389
Mack 2012 $1,109,455

Have no idea what these guys can make on outside deals; shoes, radio, etc.
But even before the BE, and the endowed position, Mack was significantly ahead of what Sean made in his last year.

Seeing these numbers makes me pretty confident that we could land a good external hire from a mid-major conference now. Not sure if that's the right move, but there are definitely people who could be wooed with $1,000,000+

[XUPhilly04]

Seeing these numbers makes me pretty confident that we could land a good external hire from a mid-major conference now. Not sure if that's the right move, but there are definitely people who could be wooed with $1,000,000+

Agreed, and importantly, the school puts their coaches in a position to succeed and in a position to be considered for high profile jobs. A good career opportunity for an ambitious coach.

[D-West & PO-Z]

On HOH someone posted a link to the 990's on the web for all non profits.
Looking at XU's recent history shows these numbers, each of which includes small bonuses and other compensation from the school.

Miller 2004 $328,760
Miller 2008 $655,989
Mack 2009 $484,389
Mack 2012 $1,109,455

Have no idea what these guys can make on outside deals; shoes, radio, etc.
But even before the BE, and the endowed position, Mack was significantly ahead of what Sean made in his last year.

Man seeing those numbers I cant believe Miller even struggled as much with his decision as he did. What did he make at AZ his first year? Did they more than triple his salary?

[xu82]

Pay the men.

[XUPhilly04]

Seeing these numbers makes me pretty confident that we could land a good external hire from a mid-major conference now. Not sure if that's the right move, but there are definitely people who could be wooed with $1,000,000+

Are you saying that we would lure Cronin from UC, if for some reason we wanted him?

[GoMuskies]

Man seeing those numbers I cant believe Miller even struggled as much with his decision as he did.

Those numbers aren't really relevant to Miller's decision. Xavier was going to give Miller a whole pile of money if he stayed.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Those numbers aren't really relevant to Miller's decision. Xavier was going to give Miller a whole pile of money if he stayed.

Yeah that makes sense.

[paulxu]

Since only 2012 is available at that site, it will be interesting to see the next couple years' numbers with the extensions he's signed and BE dollars available.

[X-man]

Since only 2012 is available at that site, it will be interesting to see the next couple years' numbers with the extensions he's signed and BE dollars available.

2013 will be out later this summer.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

2013 numbers will likely be about the same. He got his significant raise after last year

[XU 87]

On HOH someone posted a link to the 990's on the web for all non profits.
Looking at XU's recent history shows these numbers, each of which includes small bonuses and other compensation from the school.

Miller 2004 $328,760
Miller 2008 $655,989
Mack 2009 $484,389
Mack 2012 $1,109,455

Have no idea what these guys can make on outside deals; shoes, radio, etc.
But even before the BE, and the endowed position, Mack was significantly ahead of what Sean made in his last year.

I was always under the impression that Miller was making $800-900,000 his last year at X. That 2008 number seems a little low.

[xudash]

I know anything is possible, but, with the hiring of Luke Murray by Chris Mack as a new Assistant Coach, I'm really beginning to feel that we aren't losing Chris any time soon.

I don't care what has happened in the past. We're in the here and now, while being in the Big East in the here and now. I think Chris likes what he sees OVERALL on Victory Parkway as he looks out over the horizon.

I just can't imagine bringing a new employee into a business and then bolting on him within a few weeks/months. If that is the timing, then I knew there was a flight risk on my part when I brought the new person in, so it just wouldn't be cricket to do so.

Welcome Luke Murray. May you enjoy working for Chris Mack for at least a few years to come.

[OH.X.MI]

Per Pat Forde at Yahoo, Louisiana Tech HC Mike White has emerged as the leading candidate at UF.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--louisiana-tech-basketball-coach-michael-white-142904397.html

New assistant coach and some reports that UF is looking strongly at White? Not in the clear yet but the tea leaves are looking good to me right now.

[paulxu]

Will Bill Murray take Matt Latos' place?

[LA Muskie]

On HOH someone posted a link to the 990's on the web for all non profits.
Looking at XU's recent history shows these numbers, each of which includes small bonuses and other compensation from the school.

Miller 2004 $328,760
Miller 2008 $655,989
Mack 2009 $484,389
Mack 2012 $1,109,455

Have no idea what these guys can make on outside deals; shoes, radio, etc.
But even before the BE, and the endowed position, Mack was significantly ahead of what Sean made in his last year.
At Xavier, the vast majority of comp runs through the university and its affiliates because the shoe contract, radio deal, and camps all run through the university.

[LA Muskie]

Man seeing those numbers I cant believe Miller even struggled as much with his decision as he did. What did he make at AZ his first year? Did they more than triple his salary?
He could have gotten to $1mm to stay -- at the time, an unprecedented figure at Xavier. But like Bobinski said at the time, he never made an offer because whatever number he put on the table would have been dwarfed by AZ's number.

[paulxu]

At Xavier, the vast majority of comp runs through the university and its affiliates because the shoe contract, radio deal, and camps all run through the university.

Does that mean that there are not significant dollars of Mack income outside the number listed in the 990?

Guess I thought the shoe contract and other deals were something the coach did directly.

[LA Muskie]

I don't know much about the Mike White thing, but I think Luke Murray -- and announcing it -- are huge signals that Mack's not going anywhere. Onward and upward!

[LA Muskie]

Does that mean that there are not significant dollars of Mack income outside the number listed in the 990?

Guess I thought the shoe contract and other deals were something the coach did directly.
There are not. Schools structure them different ways. At Xavier they flow through the school and are shown on Xavier's tax returns. Some are shown as direct comp, others as comp from "affiliates". But it's nearly all shown.

[xavierj]

Per Pat Forde at Yahoo, Louisiana Tech HC Mike White has emerged as the leading candidate at UF.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--louisiana-tech-basketball-coach-michael-white-142904397.html

New assistant coach and some reports that UF is looking strongly at White? Not in the clear yet but the tea leaves are looking good to me right now.

That's who I would hire. It wouldn't take me long either.

[Xville]

from what i can see, White seems like an absolute no-brainer for Florida. He's young, he's from Florida, and he has had three great teams in a row at LA Tech (though they haven't been invited to the big boy tournament), which was a pretty bad program when he took over.

[BMoreX]

@GoodmanESPN: Jeremy Foley would likely have to pay in $3 million range for Archie Miller or Chris Mack. Could get Mike White for less than $2 million.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I dont know anything about White, he could be the greatest coach ever, but how, if the AD had his pick, would a guy who has never been to the tournament be the right pick over Miller or Mack? When people say he is from FL do the mean UF, like he went there, or just from the state of FL? Paying him less money I guess would be one reason he may be a better option.

Don't get me wrong, glad to hear it!

[GoMuskies]

If the money is even a factor, it is definitely an indication of how seriously Florida takes basketball.

[markchal]

From where I stand it looks like maybe they are trying to find the next Donovan who will stay forever. Or, Goodman is pretty close with Mack, maybe he's trying to help Mack save face if they decided they'd rather have White.

[D-West & PO-Z]

From where I stand it looks like maybe they are trying to find the next Donovan who will stay forever. Or, Goodman is pretty close with Mack, maybe he's trying to help Mack save face if they decided they'd rather have White.

If they want to find someone who will stay forever then hopefully it isnt the next Donovan considering he is leaving. Not sure why anyone would think Mack and or Miller wouldnt stay for a long time. No one is going to stay forever but unless they were offered maybe one of just a couple of jobs not sure why they would leave FL if they are successful. And if they arent successful they probably wont be around to have a choice to leave.

[sirthought]

In college sports, 19 years at one school is forever. I think that's a great goal for an AD.

[xubrew]

I kinda have a different theory. I think Mike White is highly connected to many in the recruiting world that Florida would like to be connected to. He wouldn't have been my first choice after this past season. They were good the year before, but were beat up with injuries so they barely missed the tournament. They returned everyone and were healthy, but missed the tournament by even more. They were good most of the time, but they still had a few games where they absolutely blew it against teams they had no business losing to, and with such a small margin for error it completely sank them. Still, he's a good coach. If Florida wants him then I think he'll take it.

[DC Muskie]

If the money is even a factor, it is definitely an indication of how seriously Florida takes basketball.

Didn't Florida make its football coach pay his own buyout? Is that a typical thing?

Sounds like Florida is more broke than Maryland. Maybe they should join the Big Ten.

[xubrew]

Didn't Florida make its football coach pay his own buyout? Is that a typical thing?

Sounds like Florida is more broke than Maryland. Maybe they should join the Big Ten.

I missed that one. Wow.

No, that's not typical at all. It happened when Travis Ford when to UMass from Eastern KY, and that's the only other time I've even heard of that. Generally, that's part of the deal. They buy you out of your old contract.

[xudash]

Didn't Florida make its football coach pay his own buyout? Is that a typical thing?

Sounds like Florida is more broke than Maryland. Maybe they should join the Big Ten.

I believe he paid $2 million of his buyout.

Otherwise, UF is swimming in money.

[DC Muskie]

I believe he paid $2 million of his buyout.

Otherwise, UF is swimming in money.

Then are they so cheap when it comes to paying their football and basketball coaches?

[bobbiemcgee]

Mc Elwain paid $2 million, Florida paid $5 million and agreed to a buy game @ the Swamp with CSU for $2 million.

[markchal]

If they want to find someone who will stay forever then hopefully it isnt the next Donovan considering he is leaving. Not sure why anyone would think Mack and or Miller wouldnt stay for a long time. No one is going to stay forever but unless they were offered maybe one of just a couple of jobs not sure why they would leave FL if they are successful. And if they arent successful they probably wont be around to have a choice to leave.

I'm pretty sure they would be fine with someone staying another 19 years and taking them to multiple title games. That is an eternity in college sports. You'd have trouble finding many coaches at that level staying longer.

Donovan built that program and turned down a handful of jobs I'm pretty sure Archie and Mack would've left for. Taking someone with ties to the area could potentially help keep someone longer, but they won't be able to recreate the Donovan magic so they shouldn't try too hard. I'd take Archie.

[OH.X.MI]

‏@GaryParrishCBS Florida has hired Louisiana Tech's Mike White.

Thank god!

[bjf123]

We now return you to our regularly scheduled off season stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Muskied]

We now return you to our regularly scheduled off season stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Louisiana tech reportedly targeting Chris Mack.

[Xavgrad08]

Jeff Goodman tweeted the following "Jeremy Foley never reached out to Archie Miller or Chris Mack. Mike White was his guy all along".


Do you guys believe him? Jeremy Foley never reached out to Mack but I am guessing somebody affiliated with the search did. I think Mike white will do a solid job.

[xu82]

So, how many people will ever know how close that really was? We'll ALL hear stuff, but who really knows??? (I'll only hear it from you folks - so I'll never know...)

[Musketeer_15]

Jeff Goodman tweeted the following "Jeremy Foley never reached out to Archie Miller or Chris Mack. Mike White was his guy all along".


Do you guys believe him? Jeremy Foley never reached out to Mack but I am guessing somebody affiliated with the search did. I think Mike white will do a solid job.

In all honesty, I don't think Mack or Miller were contacted. People like Goodman love to tweet nonsense to stir up the pot so they can get attention from people like us. Clearly it did something as we have about 46 pages of one topic.

All in all, I can speak for us all and say that the best is yet to come. The coaching staff is young in age but has much experience, which should allow for them to connect to with team and recruits easier than coaches like Bo Ryan. Let's hope some exciting news is on the way with potential new incoming recruits or transfers.

[waggy]

I said at the beginning that I'd be very surprised if Mack had any interest. Brawl fallout withstanding, I think he wants to be at X. He should also be compensated fair market value.

[xavierj]

My friend source now says Mack to Florida by weeks end. Do we go after Archie? The millers owe us one.

You need better friends and sources.

[gladdenguy]

I was stressed out for no reason this week. I'm still happy with the outcome. I can't get greedy here. Keep building up to that final four CMACK!!!!!

[throwbackmuskie]

Like I said Mack is staying


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[PM Thor]

Florida pays their new guy $2 million a year for 6 years, and Archie decides it's better to stay in dayton. They must have some incriminating video on him. That's the only logical answer.

[LA Muskie]

Jeff Goodman tweeted the following "Jeremy Foley never reached out to Archie Miller or Chris Mack. Mike White was his guy all along".


Do you guys believe him? Jeremy Foley never reached out to Mack but I am guessing somebody affiliated with the search did. I think Mike white will do a solid job.
That tweet means absolutely nothing. Until it's just about a done deal, all the communications are done back-channel so every side has plausible deniability. White may have been Foley's man all along. But very few people would actually know if that's true.

[LA Muskie]

In all honesty, I don't think Mack or Miller were contacted. People like Goodman love to tweet nonsense to stir up the pot so they can get attention from people like us. Clearly it did something as we have about 46 pages of one topic.

All in all, I can speak for us all and say that the best is yet to come. The coaching staff is young in age but has much experience, which should allow for them to connect to with team and recruits easier than coaches like Bo Ryan. Let's hope some exciting news is on the way with potential new incoming recruits or transfers.
I think the quote itself is probably accurate in its specificity. But I wouldn't take it any farther than that. The odds that Miller's and Mack's interest wasn't at least gauged, back-channel through their representatives, are very, very low.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I agree, I would be shocked if Florida had a list of one name. I bet he had his list and by everything I heard Miller/Mack were on top. Now maybe they had guys quietly ask their camps what number it would take and they didn't like the answer and went with White, but who knows. Fact is, Florida is a good job now but will it be after 4 years of White? Was it good because of Donovan? Schools like UNC/Duke/Kansas are good jobs period. Some jobs are good because the coach is excellent (Gonzaga).


I think the quote itself is probably accurate in its specificity. But I wouldn't take it any farther than that. The odds that Miller's and Mack's interest wasn't at least gauged, back-channel through their representatives, are very, very low.

[paulxu]

I said at the beginning that I'd be very surprised if Mack had any interest. Brawl fallout withstanding, I think he wants to be at X. He should also be compensated fair market value.

Jay Wright made $2,775,000 on their 990 for the year we reported Mack at $1,109,000.

[xu82]

Jay Wright made $2,775,000 on their 990 for the year we reported Mack at $1,109,000.

Those are very different numbers.

(This astute financial analysis comes to you at no additional charge.)

[JEHARDI]

1. Some personal knowledge and relationships (but not specific to this possible opportunity).

2. Opinions of those I trust with even more knowledge and closer relationships (both generally in regards to Mack and specifically with respect to this particular possibility).

3. My experience as a sports fan in general.

4. Common sense.

You better find some new sources and thank your lucky starts tonight that you did not bet the bank that Mack was gone if offered the job!

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm pretty sure they would be fine with someone staying another 19 years and taking them to multiple title games. That is an eternity in college sports. You'd have trouble finding many coaches at that level staying longer.

Donovan built that program and turned down a handful of jobs I'm pretty sure Archie and Mack would've left for. Taking someone with ties to the area could potentially help keep someone longer, but they won't be able to recreate the Donovan magic so they shouldn't try too hard. I'd take Archie.

14 of them.

But I agree 19 years is a long time. When you say forever I think of guys like Boeheim and Coach K, true lifers who have turned down NBA offers multiple times (at least K).

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Is this Michael White hire final? Can I exhale now?

[vee4xu]

Okay kids, everything's going to be okay. Everybody back to bed now.

[xu82]

Okay kids, everything's going to be okay. Everybody back to bed now.

But Dad, can I watch some TV first? I want cookies!

[LA Muskie]

You better find some new sources and thank your lucky starts tonight that you did not bet the bank that Mack was gone if offered the job!
Context, my friend. Context. I said if he was offered the job. And he wasn't.

Now I will say that as the week wore on, Mack apparently became less and less interested in the job. I alluded to that in one of my posts yesterday. Now which was the cause, and which was the effect? I have no idea...

[LA Muskie]

Is this Michael White hire final? Can I exhale now?

Yes. And please do.

[LA Muskie]

Okay kids, everything's going to be okay. Everybody back to bed now.

I really didn't think things were that bad. It's not like it was a "sky is falling" thread. There were a few "steppingstone" posts, but for the most part the debate was about money, whether Mack would or should be interested in a job like Florida, where we stand in the current basketball landscape, and who we should look to if Mack leaves. I actually thought it was about as calm as one of these situations can be.

[Masterofreality]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Just Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.


MOR, you can't keave us hanging like this. WTH?


Sorry Wags. Just not sure if 1+1 is adding up here.

And in the end it didn't. There was a small time, however, a few days ago that LA Muskie's concerns had some cred.

In the end we can all be happy.. Let's all enjoy a nice summer.

[LA Muskie]

And in the end it didn't. There was a small time, however, a few days ago that LA Muskie's concerns had some cred.

In the end we can all be happy.. Let's all enjoy a nice summer.
Thanks MOR. And I'm now hearing that my concerns actually had a pretty short shelf life. Again, I don't know the sequence of events in terms of which side cooled off first (or if it happened simultaneously), but things definitely cooled off in the end.

This is setting up as a great off-season. We should enter November with a lot of momentum...

[PM Thor]

Context, my friend. Context. I said if he was offered the job. And he wasn't.

Now I will say that as the week wore on, Mack apparently became less and less interested in the job. I alluded to that in one of my posts yesterday. Now which was the cause, and which was the effect? I have no idea...

I'm sorry LA, but this is a cop out. Every source out there had archie and Mack as the top 2 marks for the job. Everybody. Like it's been said, a program won't just "offer" a job to a coach, especially knowing that they have a big percentage to get shot down. As with every opening, there is a ton of backroom, secret talks. Did that happen with Mack? Or archie? No, probably not, because both probably cut them off at the pass. But saying that they weren't offered the job as an reason why they didn't take the job simply doesn't hold water. They probably were asked their interest, and their interest wasn't there. Probably.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Now, what are we going to talk about in the off-season? Some recruiting news would be nice. Transfer?

[GoMuskies]

Now, what are we going to talk about in the off-season?

Amazing Jews?

[PM Thor]

Oh and here is the other thing, would an AD from a supposed "major" program ever admit that he missed on his first two picks as new coach? In my opinion, absolutely not.

So of course La Tech Mike White is his first pick. Now....think about that. Of course he was (Sarcasm), over archie who has overachieved in a better conference than the WAC, yet has never had an NCAA team under his leadership, and over even asking for permission apparently for Mack, and we all know his resume'.

I don't believe that the Florida AD has so much respect for the position of dayton and Xavier coaches to not even ask to talk, to go after La Tech. That makes no sense.

[LA Muskie]

Oh and here is the other thing, would an AD from a supposed "major" program ever admit that he missed on his first two picks as new coach? In my opinion, absolutely not.
Of course not. And hence why everything is done back-channel until a deal is cut.


So of course La Tech Mike White is his first pick. Now....think about that. Of course he was (Sarcasm), over archie who has overachieved in a better conference than the WAC, yet has never had an NCAA team under his leadership, and over even asking for permission apparently for Mack, and we all know his resume'.

I don't believe that the Florida AD has so much respect for the position of dayton and Xavier coaches to not even ask to talk, to go after La Tech. That makes no sense.
Obviously Mack and Miller were on the list. And they almost certainly were higher on the list than White. Goodman may have been right about the $$$ being an issue. But he was either used or is acting a shill when he said White was always the #1 choice. No way.

[XUFan09]

Brian Snow said one time that an AD generally doesn't actually offer the job until he's pretty confident in the answer. To do so earlier and to be turned down could make him look foolish.

It's like a lawyer in court: You don't ask the witness a question that you don't know the answer to.

[bobbiemcgee]

Now, what are we going to talk about in the off-season?

http://www.9news.com/story/news/local/2015/05/07/restaurant-white-appreciation-day/70976410/

[LA Muskie]

Brian Snow said one time that an AD generally doesn't actually offer the job until he's pretty confident in the answer. To do so earlier and to be turned down could make him look foolish.

It's like a lawyer in court: You don't ask the witness a question that you don't know the answer to.
Sort of like my old dating strategy. I will not let my son apply the same standard. (I'm not prepared to discuss my daughter's dating life yet. And I doubt I ever will be.)

[wkrq59]

A word to the wise for future reference. The only source that most of us can or should recognize in situations like these is any recognized wire service. Like the AP. Beat writers, guys paid by ESPN and FOX local newspapermen and the like have a job to do. they will, and I know from experience because I was one of them, use the following words or phrases: "Sources close to the department, reliable sources say coach Philpots and coach Zoornly are believed to be the AD's top choices. A close friend whose wife works in the athletic department ...it seems, appears etc. Most of the time those words or phrases are good for that day's story only but are also red flags. Today, in almost very coaching search, the contacting is done through back channels. The longer the search takes, the more likely more than one candidate is involved and somebody already said NO. So, today, the negative Nellies say "sh!t" and those who like Mack and can be happy with long-term success and gradual improvement can say "whew" and prepare for bed. Pass the cookie. My days of JB on the rocks are over. Go Muskies.

[LA Muskie]

A word to the wise for future reference. The only source that most of us can or should recognize in situations like these is any recognized wire service. Like the AP. Beat writers, guys paid by ESPN and FOX local newspapermen and the like have a job to do. they will, and I know from experience because I was one of them, use the following words or phrases: "Sources close to the department, reliable sources say coach Philpots and coach Zoornly are believed to be the AD's top choices. A close friend whose wife works in the athletic department ...it seems, appears etc. Most of the time those words or phrases are good for that day's story only but are also red flags. Today, in almost very coaching search, the contacting is done through back channels. The longer the search takes, the more likely more than one candidate is involved and somebody already said NO. So, today, the negative Nellies say "sh!t" and those who like Mack and can be happy with long-term success and gradual improvement can say "whew" and prepare for bed. Pass the cookie. My days of JB on the rocks are over. Go Muskies.
Ha! Love it Q. You can put down the JB. But I'm sticking with my wine and bourbon. Not because I need it. Because I like it.

[waggy]

Jay Wright made $2,775,000 on their 990...


I guess I now know why Wright's name rarely comes up for other jobs.

[LA Muskie]

I guess I now know why Wright's name rarely comes up for other jobs.
Touche!

[XU-PA]

Now, what are we going to talk about in the off-season? Some recruiting news would be nice. Transfer?

will someone start a fire Chris Mack thread?

[bleedXblue]

There is no doubt in my mind that Mack and Miller were both contacted either directly or through back channels to gauge their interest in the job. Going right after White and only White makes NO sense. I think the AD was floating some salary numbers out there and Mack was only going to move for some really big dollars. He's smart and knows he's in a really good situation. Several really good, big jobs are likely going to open in the next 2-3 years. IU and Louisville to name a few. Florida is in an inferior conference and needs some rebuilding. Add to that the location of the school and football being king and I think Mack made the right call.

[xu82]

I guess I now know why Wright's name rarely comes up for other jobs.

But, what do they do all off-season?

[xu82]

will someone start a fire Chris Mack thread?

No, not until he loses a close game or fails to call a time out to stop a run. Then all this nonsense will be forgotten.

[bleedXblue]

I guess I now know why Wright's name rarely comes up for other jobs.

Yeah, Villanova is taking care of him.

I know X has increased Mack's pay, but we have a long, long way to go before we're a destination job.

[Xville]

I know Wright has had tournament success in the past, but that is a lot of dough for someone who hasn't made it to the second weekend in 6 seasons (though the year before he took them to the final four). If we were paying Mack that kind of money with those results I believe a lot of people would be pretty unhappy. I wonder what Villanova fans think of him right now?

[MADXSTER]

The bottom line is that Xavier is less of a stepping stone than it once was and is heading in the right direction. Fewer schools will come calling than in the past and that is a good thing.

[xuwin]

will someone start a fire Chris Mack thread?

If Chris's not good enough for Florida why would we want to keep him.

[MADXSTER]

When talking Jay Wright keep in mind East Coast cost of living. If you took a job on the east coast and made the same amount of money, you would have probably taken about a 30% decrease in your bottom line.