2015 Rules Changes

[paulxu]

Somewhere, in some thread, I know that clock changes and other items were discussed.
But I can't find the stupid thing.

So here's a thread about changes that might come out of the NCAA meetings this year.
Seems to be a feeling that the clock will go to 30 seconds, the charge/block arc moves out, but no 3 pt. line extension.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12775789/men-college-basketball-headed-30-second-shot-clock-according-ncaa-rules-committee-chairman

[XU 87]

They should change how the game is reffed- I agree with charge block arc, but quit generally calling so many charges. And don't let all the grabbing and holding that goes on during games.

[XUMIOH12]

I'm cool with the 30 second shot clock and the block/charge circle being moved out by 1 foot. They need to adjust the block/charge rule itself to give more freedom to the offensive player, like how they had it a couple years ago, then changed it back last year i think. I'm not a huge NBA fan, but i do think the NCAA should adopt the "clear path" foul, as well as calling offensive player for fouls when they go up for a layup and extend their off hand in mid-air to hold off the defensive player (its a foul when you are dribbling the ball, why isn't it a foul in mid-air at the basket), and the automatic offensive foul for kicking out your legs on a jump shot.

[XU 87]

I would also like to see something done about flops. If it is an obvious flop, as shown on replay, then the "flopper" gets a technical foul, although I wouldn't also give the "flopper" a personal foul.

[waggy]

I disagree on the arc. I thought originally the purpose of the arc was for a rotating defensive player. It morphed into any defender inside the arc wasn't in proper guarding position. WTF?

[MADXSTER]

I would like to see 1 less time out for each team in the second half. They could adjust/change it next year if need be.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I would also like to see something done about flops. If it is an obvious flop, as shown on replay, then the "flopper" gets a technical foul, although I wouldn't also give the "flopper" a personal foul.

I would like to see something done about flops, but the last thing college bball needs right now is more monitor reviews, so I'm not sure if that would be the solution.

[XUFan09]

I disagree on the arc. I thought originally the purpose of the arc was for a rotating defensive player. It morphed into any defender inside the arc wasn't in proper guarding position. WTF?
Yeah, now even the on-ball defender seems to be protected. It was supposed to deal with help defenders.

[waggy]

Yeah, now even the on-ball defender seems to be protected. It was supposed to deal with help defenders.


I agree on your 2nd sentence, not sure about the first. The on-ball defender should be able to guard legally inside the arc imo.

Offenses though are trying to get switching mismatches. The arc is being used to say a defender isn't in legal guarding position and I don't think it should be that absolute.

[LA Muskie]

I think the arc is dumb. It over-complicates things. And frankly, while I understand it's a tough call and can be a big deal (since it usually involves a scoring/potential play near the basket), and is probably the most debated of all calls throughout games, I tend to like the charge/block dynamic. It tends to provide some excitement, especially on a charge.

Edit: To the extent the goal of the "arc" rule is to increase offense, then I guess it achieves its objective by turning good defense into bad defense; a turnover into a defensive foul, free throws, and possible three point plays. So I guess expanding that area would be a further boon to that objective (to the detriment of fundamental basketball).

[fellahmuskie]

I would like to see 1 less time out for each team in the second half. They could adjust/change it next year if need be.

I'm happy about the 30 second shot clock. This is the other big change I would make.

[XUFan09]

I agree on your 2nd sentence, not sure about the first. The on-ball defender should be able to guard legally inside the arc imo.

Offenses though are trying to get switching mismatches. The arc is being used to say a defender isn't in legal guarding position and I don't think it should be that absolute.
I accidentally said protected when I meant punished. We're in agreement.

[Xavier]

I think the arc is dumb. It over-complicates things. And frankly, while I understand it's a tough call and can be a big deal (since it usually involves a scoring/potential play near the basket), and is probably the most debated of all calls throughout games, I tend to like the charge/block dynamic. It tends to provide some excitement, especially on a charge.

Edit: To the extent the goal of the "arc" rule is to increase offense, then I guess it achieves its objective by turning good defense into bad defense; a turnover into a defensive foul, free throws, and possible three point plays. So I guess expanding that area would be a further boon to that objective (to the detriment of fundamental basketball).

I thought the ARC was put in as protection to stop players from undercutting the offensive guy when going for a charge. I thought the rule was a safety thing than anything else.

[LA Muskie]

I thought the ARC was put in as protection to stop players from undercutting the offensive guy when going for a charge. I thought the rule was a safety thing than anything else.

I think that's right. But I haven't heard the same rationale for extending it an extra foot. Which leads me to wonder if "offense" was a motivating factor (even if unstated) in the rule in the first place.

[paulxu]

I'm just happy the speed of the boys' game might get up to the speed of the girls' game.

[XUMIOH12]

I'm happy about the 30 second shot clock. This is the other big change I would make.

I completely agree with reducing timeouts by one. Why is there a need to have 5 timeouts/team when there are already 8 total TV timeouts guaranteed every game. Potentially 18 total timeouts in a 40 minute game is ridiculous. I know it will NEVER happen, but getting rid of the under 12 timeout would do wonders for keeping the flow of the game by not having a TV timeout from under 16 stoppage to under 8 stoppage and allowing for a solid chunk of play.

[Always Learning]

A 30 clock will not drastically increase scoring as the rules committee thinks. It will be a plus to the defense. Pressing the ball handler up the court will leave like 24 seconds to shoot, advantage defense.
It will only lead to more Hail Mary attempts as the clock expires.
Late in the game, the team with the lead will be pressed harder thus limiting their offense via the clock But, it will reduce fouling, again advantage defense.midcourt
I would like to see two rule changes.
1) In say the last three minutes of the game,if a team is fouled in the backcourt, or within 10 feet past mid court, it is automatically a two shot foul, but the team fouled can shoot the first FT, but have the option of shooting the second FT, or taking it out of bounds and keeping possession. That would eliminate the BS of extending the last three minutes of a game in a half hour for no real purpose 99% of the time.
2) In crease the number of fouls for elimination to six, and impose a "penalty Box" after the 2nd, and 4th fouls. Presently today, a player picks up a second foul with 10-15 minutes to play in the first half, he sits until the second half.So, 90% of the time any team has one or two starters on the bench, and that huts the offense, plus cheats the paying public from seeing the best players.

[X-band '01]

The old Big East had the 6-foul rule in the mid-90s and it was a colossal failure. It's just going to make the game needlessly more physical.

[xuinmd]

I sort of like your rule idea but would make in within the last minute anywhere on the court. I team should not gain a possible advantage by fouling..Also I don't think the coach should be able to call time out. It distracts refs attention and anyone can about out and hand signals are too easy to miss.

[GoMuskies]

So if you're down by 1 with 29 seconds to play, and the other team has the ball, you just lose unless you can get a steal? I don't like that.

[XUFan09]

the BS of extending the last three minutes of a game in a half hour for no real purpose 99% of the time.

I hate when the end-of-game fouling gets ugly, like when the team that's down fails to score on multiple possessions after giving up free points. Still, it ends up being a positive strategy quite often and not just a tiny portion of the time like you make it out to be. If it didn't turn into a positive strategy regularly, I wouldn't feel very nervous when Xavier is up just a few points with the ball and under 30 seconds to go. Even if a team makes all their free throws, there's still a chance for a 3-for-2 exchange each time.

The ability to foul at the end of the game helps offset the randomness of tiny sample sizes in close games. Otherwise, it would often become simply who scores last wins. Say a team down 1 just doesn't score on a specific possession with 50 seconds to go, and then their opponent on the next possession puts up a three-pointer to extend the lead to 4 with 28 seconds to go. The game would pretty much be decided right there, despite the solid amount of time left on the clock, if fouling wasn't a real option. Forcing a turnover is a very tall task when the opponent doesn't even need to score, especially if fouling is now a serious issue. Making a team earn their lead at the line, though, balances the scales and gives the losing team a real chance.

[LA Muskie]

Shooting FT's is a part of the game. I don't have a problem with end-game fouling at all. Just like I don't have a problem with Popovich playing Hack-a-Shaq with Deandre Jordan. The problem isn't the strategy. It's the inability to hit a freaking free throw...

[Xavier]

Personally the biggest rule change I would want to see is advancing the ball with a time out (under 2 minutes to play) like the NBA does. I'd also have one less time out as others have suggested.

[XUFan09]

Personally the biggest rule change I would want to see is advancing the ball with a time out (under 2 minutes to play) like the NBA does. I'd also have one less time out as others have suggested.

I like that tradeoff a lot. Advancing the ball is one of my favorite differences with the NBA.

[xuinmd]

So if you're down by 1 with 29 seconds to play, and the other team has the ball, you just lose unless you can get a steal? I don't like that.

well the team should at least get the ball back and not forced to make a foul shot and who broke the fouling rule should they be rewarded

[GoMuskies]

well the team should at least get the ball back and not forced to make a foul shot and who broke the fouling rule should they be rewarded

You're gonna have to try that again in English.

[XUFan09]

You're gonna have to try that again in English.

I'm with Go on this. What you said didn't make sense.

[xu82]

You're gonna have to try that again in English.

It did seem to be about basketball.... and.... well...he's not happy about it.

I think.

Maybe he's a Shaq fan?

Or maybe he's Shaq?

[X-band '01]

Personally the biggest rule change I would want to see is advancing the ball with a time out (under 2 minutes to play) like the NBA does. I'd also have one less time out as others have suggested.

Keep in mind you're also talking about a game that has had memorable plays (i.e. Christian Laettner, Bryce Drew) without the benefit of this rule.

(I know, Cavs fans. If they had the college rule in place, Craig Ehlo would be one of your all-time heroes and not a goat.)

[Always Learning]

The old Big East had the 6-foul rule in the mid-90s and it was a colossal failure. It's just going to make the game needlessly more physical.

Perhaps it was, but my 6 foul suggestion comes with a penalty of 3-5-7 minutes a la the NHL after the 2nd, and 4th fouls.

[outsideobserver11]

Yes I'm all for the 30 second shot clock.

that means UC will be upping the PPG all the way to 56 next year!! I won't be able to handle all of that offense.

[XUFan09]

Keep in mind you're also talking about a game that has had memorable plays (i.e. Christian Laettner, Bryce Drew) without the benefit of this rule.

(I know, Cavs fans. If they had the college rule in place, Craig Ehlo would be one of your all-time heroes and not a goat.)

There would probably be even more amazing plays though if they got to start at halfcourt with a few seconds left.

[paulxu]

I'm not creating a thread for this; but somebody has removed all the postseason NCAA records from the Xavier Basketball Wiki page.

[XUFan09]

I'm not creating a thread for this; but somebody has removed all the postseason NCAA records from the Xavier Basketball Wiki page.
They're back. It doesn't take long for Wikipedia editors to correct that sort of thing. It probably was a UC/UD troll.

[paulxu]

And now they're gone again, unless I'm on the wrong page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Musketeers_men's_basketball

It's the big blank space below the uniforms. Compare to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_Hoyas_men's_basketball

[waggy]

X's page just has a different layout than Gtown. X has a dedicated postseason section. Left margin. Clickable.

[paulxu]

Georgetown's is the standard layout for all colleges.
The area below the uniforms gives a handy guide to viewing how the team has performed in the NCAA without adding up all the stuff further on down.
It was always there before, and now has just disappeared.
I blame Muskie.

[RoseyMuskie]

So if you're down by 1 with 29 seconds to play, and the other team has the ball, you just lose unless you can get a steal? I don't like that.

I think the strategy works well often, and I don't have many complaints. However, I would not be opposed to a 15 foul limit which would generate intentionals. Or, the foul should need to be in normal game play. Not dead ball, jersey pulling. Again, that should be an intentional.

We wouldn't have this issue if some coaches just acknowledged defeat.

[Drew]

Georgetown's is the standard layout for all colleges.
The area below the uniforms gives a handy guide to viewing how the team has performed in the NCAA without adding up all the stuff further on down.
It was always there before, and now has just disappeared.
I blame Muskie.

I fixed it. Some troll with the name "Max Fitzmiller" was removing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Musketeers_men%27s_basketball

[paulxu]

Thanks Drew!!!
(must have been a jealous VD fan)

[THRILLHOUSE]

And here are the proposed rule changes:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFEHMCzUIAMcNgZ.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFEJa-0WAAESH7-.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFEIXSTUgAAajSb.jpg

[casualfan]

And here are the proposed rule changes:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFEHMCzUIAMcNgZ.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFEJa-0WAAESH7-.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFEIXSTUgAAajSb.jpg

The middle one is the one getting all the run, but item #1 on the third pic is without a doubt the most important.

[Muskie1000]

I think #3 on the first panel will be better for the fans. I can not stand when the team calls a time out, has a play, then we have another media time out right after. Makes me want to scream

[THRILLHOUSE]

Another timeout related proposal:

NCAA March Madness ‏@marchmadness 3m3 minutes ago
Other #MBBRules proposals include eliminating coach-called live ball timeouts and 10 second backcourt timer will not reset with timeout.

[casualfan]

Another timeout related proposal:

NCAA March Madness ‏@marchmadness 3m3 minutes ago
Other #MBBRules proposals include eliminating coach-called live ball timeouts and 10 second backcourt timer will not reset with timeout.

That is another one that I really like.

And I also agree with Thrillhouse that the TV timeout rule would be great for fans.

It looks like they are making some strides to stop the over-coaching that has become so prevalent.

[THRILLHOUSE]

NCAA March Madness ‏@marchmadness 4m4 minutes ago
All #MBBRules proposals must be approved by Playing Rules Oversight Panel on June 8 before becoming official.

[X-band '01]

I think #3 on the first panel will be better for the fans. I can not stand when the team calls a time out, has a play, then we have another media time out right after. Makes me want to scream

Theoretically, the way I read that rule says that one team could call up to an additional 7 timeouts over the other team. I would even go a step further and reduce the amount of timeouts available in the final minute of regulation/overtime to no more than 2 per side (both 30 seconds).


Another timeout related proposal:

NCAA March Madness ‏@marchmadness 3m3 minutes ago
Other #MBBRules proposals include eliminating coach-called live ball timeouts and 10 second backcourt timer will not reset with timeout.

I would assume that still gives the players the option to call time-out as necessary.

To the second point, why not change the rule from 10 seconds to 8 seconds (which is actually what the NBA uses now)?

[XUFan09]

I don't think they should change the backcourt timer to fit the NBA because the average NBA player's athleticism, speed, and offensive skillset is significantly better than that of even a good college player. Quite simply, NBA players are so offensively talented and physically superior compared to college players that they don't need as much time to get across halfcourt against defensive pressure, just as they don't need as much time to score in a possession.

[casualfan]

I don't think they should change the backcourt timer to fit the NBA because the average NBA player's athleticism, speed, and offensive skillset is significantly better than that of even a good college player. Quite simply, NBA players are so offensively talented and physically superior compared to college players that they don't need as much time to get across halfcourt against defensive pressure, just as they don't need as much time to score in a possession.

Agreed.

[paulxu]

I don't think they should change the backcourt timer to fit the NBA because the average NBA player's athleticism, speed, and offensive skillset is significantly better than that of even a good college player. Quite simply, NBA players are so offensively talented and physically superior compared to college players that they don't need as much time to get across halfcourt against defensive pressure, just as they don't need as much time to score in a possession.

I'm not sure I've seen much defensive backcourt pressure in the NBA after a made basket.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure I've seen much defensive backcourt pressure in the NBA after a made basket.

Rick Pitino tried it....and as a result he's been at Louisville the last 14 years!

[sirthought]

I'm not sure I've seen much defensive backcourt pressure in the NBA after a made basket.

True…probably because there are so many better ball handlers with speed in the NBA.

[XfansinKy]

They should change how the game is reffed- I agree with charge block arc, but quit generally calling so many charges. And don't let all the grabbing and holding that goes on during games.
I agree. That's the bigger issue.

[XUFan09]

True…probably because there are so many better ball handlers with speed in the NBA.

Yep. At the college level, just think of how Drew Lavender would make any pressing defense look foolish. That's what you would see at the NBA level with point guards more talented (and half a foot taller) than him if defenses tried to implement the press regularly.

[XfansinKy]

Yep. At the college level, just think of how Drew Lavender would make any pressing defense look foolish. That's what you would see at the NBA level with point guards more talented (and half a foot taller) than him if defenses tried to implement the press regularly.
Not to mention guys near seven feet tall with a good handle and passing skills.

[bjf123]

I'm not sure I've seen much defensive backcourt pressure in the NBA after a made basket.

They play defense in the NBA?

Back to the topic at hand. I like all of the proposals. Doubt if they'll all be implemented.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think #3 on the first panel will be better for the fans. I can not stand when the team calls a time out, has a play, then we have another media time out right after. Makes me want to scream

I agree, I am shocked they would consider that though with the money from commercials.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't think they should change the backcourt timer to fit the NBA because the average NBA player's athleticism, speed, and offensive skillset is significantly better than that of even a good college player. Quite simply, NBA players are so offensively talented and physically superior compared to college players that they don't need as much time to get across halfcourt against defensive pressure, just as they don't need as much time to score in a possession.

That would apply to the defensive abilities of the players as well, thus cancelling out. I like 8 secs. They still walk pretty slow up the court and get it over fine.

[D-West & PO-Z]

And here are the proposed rule changes:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFEHMCzUIAMcNgZ.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFEJa-0WAAESH7-.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFEIXSTUgAAajSb.jpg

Reducing shot clock and timeouts are most important to me.

[paulxu]

Dana O'Neil's comments on the rule changes include one on a proposed foul to be called for flopping.
Hadn't seen that before. Would be real interesting.

Bilass's comments are of course on Insider.

[XUFan09]

That would apply to the defensive abilities of the players as well, thus cancelling out. I like 8 secs. They still walk pretty slow up the court and get it over fine.
Not really. As a general rule, good offense beats good defense. With younger kids, it doesn't happen much because you rarely see good offensive play, but over the course of player maturation, good offensive play becomes more and more prevalent and good defenses can do less and less to stop it. That reaches a pinnacle in the NBA, where college stars frequently get cut in the preseason and benchwarmers would be professional stars in Europe.

Some of the "no defense in the NBA" talk is true in that guys don't always go all out over the course of a long season. However, a lot of it is simply an issue of even average players being difficult to stop.

[X-band '01]

Official NCAA Website - Proposed Rule Changes (http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2015-05-15/mens-basketball-rules-committee-recommends-package-proposals)

Here were a few other proposals not mentioned yet:

1) Class B technical (i.e. hanging on the rim, delay of game) fouls would now be one shot instead of two;

2) Allow for dunking during pre-game warmups

3) Elimination of the 5-second "closely guarded" violation.

[DoubleD86]

Not really. As a general rule, good offense beats good defense. With younger kids, it doesn't happen much because you rarely see good offensive play, but over the course of player maturation, good offensive play becomes more and more prevalent and good defenses can do less and less to stop it. That reaches a pinnacle in the NBA, where college stars frequently get cut in the preseason and benchwarmers would be professional stars in Europe.

Some of the "no defense in the NBA" talk is true in that guys don't always go all out over the course of a long season. However, a lot of it is simply an issue of even average players being difficult to stop.

This point is one I have always tried to explain to people. I'm far from an NBA fan, but all of the complaints about the lack of defense in the NBA always blow my mind. You have to be able to play defense in the NBA to stick, the problem is being good at defense means you are only going to be beat most of the time, instead of almost every time.

[xufan2020]

They keep trying to take defense away from the game, and I hate it. When was hand-checking banned from the college ball? It was banned in the NBA after the 1998-1999 season. Anyway, I do like the shot clock proposal and the media timeout proposal.

[Always Learning]

Don't like the :30 clock as I believe it will gives the D an edge, but what the hell.
But I am a proponent for the 6 foul rule, but my God, why only in post season?
Is this a CBS rule to keep "stars" in thengame?
It can't be experimental as that is no place to "experiment."
My advocacy for the six foul rule carries a caveat where after the 2nd and 4th fould the player would sit for 3-4-5 minutes.
But this nonsense of a player getting #2 with 12 minutes to play in the first half and sitting things out until the 2nd half is assinine.