Duke and the "One and dones"

[JTG]

My question is has Duke sold it's soul for NCAA titles ? Places like UK, or most State Schools taking one and dones does not surprise me. However Duke is a very prestigious institution, right up there with the Ivys, Stanford, MIT etc. It is a very difficult school to get into, and has many, many highly prestigious programs. For them to go this route is somewhat surprising. Even ND, as obnoxious as they can be, hasn't gone down the "rent a championship road" because of their academic integrity.
Thoughts ?

[xubrew]

My question is has Duke sold it's soul for NCAA titles ? Places like UK, or most State Schools taking one and dones does not surprise me. However Duke is a very prestigious institution, right up there with the Ivys, Stanford, MIT etc. It is a very difficult school to get into, and has many, many highly prestigious programs. For them to go this route is somewhat surprising. Even ND, as obnoxious as they can be, hasn't gone down the "rent a championship road" because of their academic integrity.
Thoughts ?

As a fan, I hate both Kentucky and Duke. Having said that, I don't see how they're somehow morally compromised simply because they recruit the best players they can. There was a very long list of schools who tried to get the so-called one and dones. It's just that Duke and Kentucky were the places they ended up going to. Duke and UK are not the problem. It's the NBA that's the problem, and they're the only ones who can really prevent it.

[Juice]

My question is has Duke sold it's soul for NCAA titles ? Places like UK, or most State Schools taking one and dones does not surprise me. However Duke is a very prestigious institution, right up there with the Ivys, Stanford, MIT etc. It is a very difficult school to get into, and has many, many highly prestigious programs. For them to go this route is somewhat surprising. Even ND, as obnoxious as they can be, hasn't gone down the "rent a championship road" because of their academic integrity.
Thoughts ?

Why do you think they're selling their soul? They are completely operating within the rules of the NCAA. What integrity are they violating? If one of their normal students got rich from some idea they came up with in science class and quit school, you wouldn't say shit. When people like Bill Gates and Zuckerberg drop out of Harvard, no one says shit. But because it's basketball that someone can make millions at you have a problem with it?

[Xville]

i hate kentucky, duke, kansas and the other 1-2 schools that have turned into "rent a player" type schools. However, I don't believe they are doing anything wrong, and I don't think they are the problem. As Brew said, The NBA is the problem. It would be nice if basketball adopted the baseball rules...either leave right out of high school, or go to college for three years and then enter.

The whole one and done thing is ridiculous, and I am pretty shocked that Duke is recruiting these kids now with K still there...I honestly never thought that would happen with him still in charge, but again they aren't doing anything wrong. The NBA is what is wrong.

[xu82]

I hate Duke, but it will have to be for other reasons. If Notre Dame could sign those guys they'd do it in a heartbeat. Coach Whiney K is the reason they get those players.

(I will admit, if you're ever near the Duke campus, going into Cameron Indoor all by yourself is pretty cool. The doors have been unlocked each time I've gone.)

[Juice]

i hate kentucky, duke, kansas and the other 1-2 schools that have turned into "rent a player" type schools. However, I don't believe they are doing anything wrong, and I don't think they are the problem. As Brew said, The NBA is the problem. It would be nice if basketball adopted the baseball rules...either leave right out of high school, or go to college for three years and then enter.

The whole one and done thing is ridiculous, and I am pretty shocked that Duke is recruiting these kids now with K still there...I honestly never thought that would happen with him still in charge, but again they aren't doing anything wrong. The NBA is what is wrong.

Newsflash: Coach K isn't a better person than any other coach for what he does or doesn't do with his basketball program. He's actually a huge dick. He's a smarter version of Bobby Knight because he gets away with the dictator coach bullshit that everyone loved about Knight.

[Xville]

Newsflash: Coach K isn't a better person than any other coach for what he does or doesn't do with his basketball program. He's actually a huge dick. He's a smarter version of Bobby Knight because he gets away with the dictator coach bullshit that everyone loved about Knight.

what does any of this have to do with me being shocked that he is recruiting one and done's? I never thought that 1.) those kinds of kids would want to go to Duke with the perception of that school. 2.) K would recruit those guys because perception wise it didn't seem like he would.

I do find it funny that Cal gets hated on every single year and K basically gets away with it..probably because Cal can't keep his mouth shut for longer than a minute. Both Cal and K can eat a whole bag of dicks as far as I am concerned.

The main reason I don't like the whole one and done thing is because it has helped make the game as a whole pretty mediocre

[JTG]

I guess I ask because I have been travelling to Raleigh Durham once a month for the last three years. The airport is always full of Duke physicians and scientists coming and going, in addition to students that you can tell are very bright. My question was why does such a prestigious school do this ? UK with it's army of toothless hillbilly fans is no surprise. Especially with Cal at the helm. Why doesn't Stanford do this ? I'm not talking about the coach, I am asking about it from an academic standpoint.

[Juice]

what does any of this have to do with me being shocked that he is recruiting one and done's? I never thought that 1.) those kinds of kids would want to go to Duke with the perception of that school. 2.) K would recruit those guys because up until a few years ago, he didn't.

The main reason I don't like the whole one and done thing is because it has helped make the game as a whole pretty mediocre

Before this NBA draft the ACC had 16 total one and dones, Coach K had 5 of them. Now add 3 more for this season.

[Juice]

I guess I ask because I have been travelling to Raleigh Durham once a month for the last three years. The airport is always full of Duke physicians and scientists coming and going, in addition to students that you can tell are very bright. My question was why does such a prestigious school do this ? UK with it's army of toothless hillbilly fans is no surprise. Especially with Cal at the helm. Why doesn't Stanford do this ? I'm not talking about the coach, I am asking about it from an academic standpoint.

Simple: their alumni want their sports programs to win. And a guy or two leaving for the NBA every now and then doesn't in the slightest bit hurt the academic reputation of the school.

[xubrew]

what does any of this have to do with me being shocked that he is recruiting one and done's? I never thought that 1.) those kinds of kids would want to go to Duke with the perception of that school. 2.) K would recruit those guys because perception wise it didn't seem like he would.

I do find it funny that Cal gets hated on every single year and K basically gets away with it..probably because Cal can't keep his mouth shut for longer than a minute. Both Cal and K can eat a whole bag of dicks as far as I am concerned.

The main reason I don't like the whole one and done thing is because it has helped make the game as a whole pretty mediocre

Agreed. But to be fair, it's only one of the things on a long list of things that have made the game mediocre.

[LA Muskie]

My question is has Duke sold it's soul for NCAA titles ? Places like UK, or most State Schools taking one and dones does not surprise me. However Duke is a very prestigious institution, right up there with the Ivys, Stanford, MIT etc. It is a very difficult school to get into, and has many, many highly prestigious programs. For them to go this route is somewhat surprising. Even ND, as obnoxious as they can be, hasn't gone down the "rent a championship road" because of their academic integrity.
Thoughts ?
UK had more one-and-dones this year than Duke has had in its entire history up to this point. I'm not sure it's so much a trend as it was an anomaly this year. That said, I also don't think K will eschew an obvious one-and-done if he can get him. And I don't think admissions will stand in his way, regardless. Duke is a premiere academic institution, but it invests in its athletic programs for a reason. And don't think for a second that schools like Stanford and ND would reject a one-and-done candidate. They just haven't been able to secure one.

[bjf123]

Saw an article online about how Duke was going to deal with their freshman PG leaving for the NBA. Derryck Thornton, who was apparently a consensus Top 15 recruit for 2016 committed to Duke and intends to "reclassify from the high school junior class to the senior class." How the hell does that happen? You can just say "I'm now a senior"? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!?!?!?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LA Muskie]

Saw an article online about how Duke was going to deal with their freshman PG leaving for the NBA. Derryck Thornton, who was apparently a consensus Top 15 recruit for 2016 committed to Duke and intends to "reclassify from the high school junior class to the senior class." How the hell does that happen? You can just say "I'm now a senior"? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!?!?!?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You can if you have the credits necessary to (i) graduate; and (ii) pass the NCAA clearinghouse. You don't see it happen very often, but it occasionally happens.

[smileyy]

There is no "soul" to be sold, anywhere in the NCAA. You'll be disappointed if you go in thinking there is.

[smileyy]

You can if you have the credits necessary to (i) graduate; and (ii) pass the NCAA clearinghouse. You don't see it happen very often, but it occasionally happens.

Its a valuable option for a player to have in his pocket, to give him the flexibility to step into an opportunity if it opens up, or wait another year to develop more.

[XU 87]

Newsflash: Coach K isn't a better person than any other coach for what he does or doesn't do with his basketball program. He's actually a huge dick. He's a smarter version of Bobby Knight because he gets away with the dictator coach bullshit that everyone loved about Knight.

A friend of mine told me that he was talking to some AAU coaches a few years ago. He asked them who they would want their players to play for in college. I think there were a few votes for Izzo and a few other coaches. None of them mentioned Coach K. When he asked about Coach K, they all basically said what you wrote- that he's a big asshole to his players. He's just a little more subtle than Knight about it. But he comes from the Knight school of coaching.

[GoMuskies]

The most amusing part of this thread is that there's someone out there who thinks Notre Dame isn't recruiting one and done type players due to their "academic integrity". I think I'll save that one and use it for Xavier as well.

[xu82]

The most amusing part of this thread is that there's someone out there who thinks Notre Dame isn't recruiting one and done type players due to their "academic integrity". I think I'll save that one and use it for Xavier as well.

Notre Dame is Not recruiting those kids.


Until they get one. And then they want two. Just like us.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

We have yet to get a "one & done" so far, not that we would turn him away. Well, that day may come.

[D-West & PO-Z]

UK had more one-and-dones this year than Duke has had in its entire history up to this point. I'm not sure it's so much a trend as it was an anomaly this year. That said, I also don't think K will eschew an obvious one-and-done if he can get him. And I don't think admissions will stand in his way, regardless. Duke is a premiere academic institution, but it invests in its athletic programs for a reason. And don't think for a second that schools like Stanford and ND would reject a one-and-done candidate. They just haven't been able to secure one.

Exactly

[DoubleD86]

Why do you think they're selling their soul? They are completely operating within the rules of the NCAA. What integrity are they violating? If one of their normal students got rich from some idea they came up with in science class and quit school, you wouldn't say shit. When people like Bill Gates and Zuckerberg drop out of Harvard, no one says shit. But because it's basketball that someone can make millions at you have a problem with it?

This is my issue with the "one-and-done" complaints. People only care because it negatively affects THEM personally. Their sport and their programs are potentially harmed, and that's the only reason people get mad about it. No one cares when Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg or some actor or musician drop out to make money because it doesn't personally affect them. They only care when athletes do because fans have an emotional connection to the program and the sport they watch and when a player makes a decision for their own life (and often improving their life), fans get mad that it could negatively affect said fan's life.

[JTG]

This is my issue with the "one-and-done" complaints. People only care because it negatively affects THEM personally. Their sport and their programs are potentially harmed, and that's the only reason people get mad about it. No one cares when Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg or some actor or musician drop out to make money because it doesn't personally affect them. They only care when athletes do because fans have an emotional connection to the program and the sport they watch and when a player makes a decision for their own life (and often improving their life), fans get mad that it could negatively affect said fan's life.
Dammit, doesn't anyone understand English. I don't care what the players do. If they want to leave, good luck. My question was the integrity of a prestigious University getting the One & Done. I understand it at diploma mills like UK, Kansas, and others. And no, Stanford and ND don't do it. ND recruited some shady characters under Holtz, but has gotten away from that. And Stanford has managed to beat the crap out of other Pac12 teams with a bunch of pretty smart 3 and 4 yr guys. I know Football v. Basketball is apples and oranges. And I doubt Dukes endowment needs their basketball team to be good.

[Juice]

Dammit, doesn't anyone understand English. I don't care what the players do. If they want to leave, good luck. My question was the integrity of a prestigious University getting the One & Done. I understand it at diploma mills like UK, Kansas, and others. And no, Stanford and ND don't do it. ND recruited some shady characters under Holtz, but has gotten away from that. And Stanford has managed to beat the crap out of other Pac12 teams with a bunch of pretty smart 3 and 4 yr guys. I know Football v. Basketball is apples and oranges. And I doubt Dukes endowment needs their basketball team to be good.

1) You think UK and Kansas are diploma mills? They're universities, not some community college printing out achievement certificates.
2) How the hell do one and dones damage the academic integrity? It's like 1-3 guys every few years or less than 1% of the school. No damage is being done because it's not harmful to begin with and because it's such a small percentage.
3)Notre Dame and Stanford would do it in a heartbeat but they can't because no one wants to play basketball in the shitty Joyce Center in crap town Indiana in the middle of the winter.
4) Stanford hasn't won the Pac-10/12 since 2004. Beating the crap out of the conference? Sure.... The best they've finished in the conference under Dawkins was tied for 3rd. They've made the tourney once in the last seven years. But at least they are mediocre with integrity!

[LA Muskie]

Dammit, doesn't anyone understand English. I don't care what the players do. If they want to leave, good luck. My question was the integrity of a prestigious University getting the One & Done. I understand it at diploma mills like UK, Kansas, and others. And no, Stanford and ND don't do it. ND recruited some shady characters under Holtz, but has gotten away from that. And Stanford has managed to beat the crap out of other Pac12 teams with a bunch of pretty smart 3 and 4 yr guys. I know Football v. Basketball is apples and oranges. And I doubt Dukes endowment needs their basketball team to be good.
So you are telling us that if Karl-Anthony Towns, Jahil Okafor, Trey Lyles, Justin Winslow, Tyus Jones, or Devin Booker wanted to go to ND or Stanford, those schools would have said HELL NO? Please tell me you're not that naive.

12 Freshmen in all of college basketball have announced their intentions to leave school and enter the NBA draft this year. 6 of them (50%) attended UK or Duke. The remainder were from Kansas (2), Ohio State (1), UCLA (1) Texas (1), and UNLV (1). The reason schools like Stanford and ND (and Xavier for that matter) haven't had one-and-dones is because they haven't successfully recruited the very few of them that are out there every year. It's absolutely not because they wouldn't want them.

[Xville]

I would just like to point out that I believe many schools wouldn't take a one and done player if asked, or at least many allude to the fact that they would not. Pitino at Louisville has basically come out and said that is not the kind of kid that they recruit.

Considering all the success Louisville has had, I'm pretty sure they could have gotten a one and done by now if they really wanted. It sounds like Bo Ryan basically said he won't do "rent a players" after playing Duke. Now are these guys lying? Maybe...but I don't believe every single school would take these players, or recruit the way they would need to in order to get these players at the very least.

[LA Muskie]

I would just like to point out that I believe many schools wouldn't take a one and done player if asked, or at least many allude to the fact that they would not. Pitino at Louisville has basically come out and said that is not the kind of kid that they recruit.

Considering all the success Louisville has had, I'm pretty sure they could have gotten a one and done by now if they really wanted. It sounds like Bo Ryan basically said he won't do "rent a players" after playing Duke. Now are these guys lying? Maybe...but I don't believe every single school would take these players, or recruit the way they would need to in order to get these players at the very least.
There are maybe 1 or 2 obvious one-and-dones every year (if that). The rest have to play their way into the discussion. And then a good portion leave even though they probably shouldn't. I find it VERY hard to believe that Pitino or Ryan would have said no to either Karl-Anthony Towns or Jahil Okafor. They may prefer that one-and-dones didn't exist, but I don't think they would bite off their nose to spite their face. In the end, they want to win.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

I would just like to point out that I believe many schools wouldn't take a one and done player if asked, or at least many allude to the fact that they would not. Pitino at Louisville has basically come out and said that is not the kind of kid that they recruit.

Considering all the success Louisville has had, I'm pretty sure they could have gotten a one and done by now if they really wanted. It sounds like Bo Ryan basically said he won't do "rent a players" after playing Duke. Now are these guys lying? Maybe...but I don't believe every single school would take these players, or recruit the way they would need to in order to get these players at the very least.

Bo Ryan is full of shit. He recruited 5 star center and likely one and done player Diamond Stone out of Milwaukee just as hard as anyone else in the country.

[Juice]

Bo Ryan is full of shit. He recruited 5 star center and likely one and done player Diamond Stone out of Milwaukee just as hard as anyone else in the country.

Sam Dekker was ranked 12th or 13th in his class.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Bo Ryan is full of shit. He recruited 5 star center and likely one and done player Diamond Stone out of Milwaukee just as hard as anyone else in the country.

Bo Ryan was not talking about one and done freshman. No where in his comments did he mention them. He specifically mentioned the graduate transfer rule, which apparently, he has been outspoken about for quite some time. It is kind of funny how the media totally made up their own interpretation and ran with it.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2015-04-13/bo-ryan-national-championship-game-comments-postgame-duke-mike-krzyzewski-media-reaction-mike-decourcy

[xubrew]

I would just like to point out that I believe many schools wouldn't take a one and done player if asked, or at least many allude to the fact that they would not. Pitino at Louisville has basically come out and said that is not the kind of kid that they recruit.

Considering all the success Louisville has had, I'm pretty sure they could have gotten a one and done by now if they really wanted. It sounds like Bo Ryan basically said he won't do "rent a players" after playing Duke. Now are these guys lying? Maybe...but I don't believe every single school would take these players, or recruit the way they would need to in order to get these players at the very least.

Louisville went after Trey Lyles pretty hard. He even went there for an official visit.

In short, I personally do not believe Rick Pitino.

[Xville]

Louisville went after Trey Lyles pretty hard. He even went there for an official visit.

In short, I personally do not believe Rick Pitino.

He did, and rumor (none of us know the truth) was that trey talked to Rick about his desire to be one and done and Rick said maybe he should go 75 miles east then. I tend to believe Rick considering he's never had a one and done and louisville is one of the absolute best basketball programs of the last 7-8 years.

[Xville]

1) You think UK and Kansas are diploma mills? They're universities, not some community college printing out achievement certificates.
2) How the hell do one and dones damage the academic integrity? It's like 1-3 guys every few years or less than 1% of the school. No damage is being done because it's not harmful to begin with and because it's such a small percentage.
3)Notre Dame and Stanford would do it in a heartbeat but they can't because no one wants to play basketball in the shitty Joyce Center in crap town Indiana in the middle of the winter.
4) Stanford hasn't won the Pac-10/12 since 2004. Beating the crap out of the conference? Sure.... The best they've finished in the conference under Dawkins was tied for 3rd. They've made the tourney once in the last seven years. But at least they are mediocre with integrity!

1,) they are when it comes to their basketball teams...unc is you don't think those two schools do the exact same thing? Child please.

The rest I mostly agree with but no one knows what nd or Stanford coaches would do in that situation. I think it's within the realm of possibility that some coaches wouldn't want that kind of player....though I have no clue what those particular coaches feel on the subject.

[Juice]

1,) they are when it comes to their basketball teams...unc is you don't think those two schools do the exact same thing? Child please.

The rest I mostly agree with but no one knows what nd or Stanford coaches would do in that situation. I think it's within the realm of possibility that some coaches wouldn't want that kind of player....though I have no clue what those particular coaches feel on the subject.

He was talking about the universities at large. But yes, all programs push players through, not just UK and Kansas. The name is of the game is keeping them eligible. And if you don't think ND does that then you're delusional. I have friends who had classes with ND football players that stood up, slammed the test down on the teacher's desk, and told him that he wasn't going to take it.

And Stanford would take a one and done if they could get one. Dawkins does whatever Coach K does.

[JTG]

He was talking about the universities at large. But yes, all programs push players through, not just UK and Kansas. The name is of the game is keeping them eligible. And if you don't think ND does that then you're delusional. I have friends who had classes with ND football players that stood up, slammed the test down on the teacher's desk, and told him that he wasn't going to take it.

And Stanford would take a one and done if they could get one. Dawkins does whatever Coach K does.

When I brought up Stanford I was thinking more of football. Although judging from the 3 Stanford guys the Colts have, I don't tend to believe they let dumbass jocks skate thru the place. All three seem to be very bright. I think ND cleaned up their act somewhat after Holtz, but I have had friends who went there tell me the hardest part about ND is getting admitted, once you're there it is competitive, but not the most rigorous academic school.

[XUFan09]

I think some people are conflating dumb jocks and one-and-dones. There are plenty of one-and-dones and two-and-dones who are perfectly fine students, and there are plenty of four-year players who are dumb jocks.

[Juice]

When I brought up Stanford I was thinking more of football. Although judging from the 3 Stanford guys the Colts have, I don't tend to believe they let dumbass jocks skate thru the place. All three seem to be very bright. I think ND cleaned up their act somewhat after Holtz, but I have had friends who went there tell me the hardest part about ND is getting admitted, once you're there it is competitive, but not the most rigorous academic school.

The ND story I referred to was under Weis.

[JTG]

The ND story I referred to was under Weis.

That figures....Weis was with the Patriots before he came to ND.