Hypothetical Series with NKU??

[xubrew]

Okay, I know it isn't likely and I know all the reasons why, hence the term"HYPOTHETICAL." So, you don't need to explain to me all the reasons Xavier wouldn't go for this.

Having said that, would anyone be against a H&H with NKU?? I think it'd be kinda cool, and it's a winnable road game that's a bus ride away. Literally. You could catch the Metro.

[GoMuskies]

I would welcome an NKU visit to Cintas Center.

[Milhouse]

I'm all for it personally

[xubrew]

I would welcome an NKU visit to Cintas Center.

If there was a series, that's all it would be. Just a buy game. I don't like buy games, but if you're going to play them then at least play the local teams that are somewhat interesting to the fans, I guess.

[STL_XUfan]

If there was a series, that's all it would be. Just a buy game. I don't like buy games, but if you're going to play them then at least play the local teams that are somewhat interesting to the fans, I guess. Offer a 2 or 3 for 1. Get the seeds planted, and if they improve move it to a home and home. While I am all for supporting the new local program, a H&H takes away a date that we can make money off a home game or improve our resume (or recruicting base) with a good road game.

[THRILLHOUSE]

As a NKU grad, I'd be for it. But as a X fan, no thanks. Maybe a buy game, but right now don't have any interest in starting a series with a team that is sub-200 RPI, even if they are local. When NKU becomes a consistent winner in the ASun, which I think they will at some point, then I might re-consider.

**edit** I'd be ok with STL's 2 or 3 for 1 scenario.

[X-band '01]

Imagine the crying we'd hear from our real rivals like Miami and an unnamed school up north if Xavier does play a home-and-home with NKU. It would be nothing more than RPI padding by trying to get a win at their place.

[xubrew]

Imagine the crying we'd hear from our real rivals like Miami and an unnamed school up north if Xavier does play a home-and-home with NKU. It would be nothing more than RPI padding by trying to get a win at their place.

The RPI padding did enter into it. I'm not going to lie. Winning at NKU is more than twice as good as winning at Cintas in regards to the RPI, and they're a bus ride away. If we can talk them into giving us 1500 tickets, that would at least offset some of the money lost from a buy game.

I'd much rather play NKU home and home than Miami OH home and home. I don't mind playing Miami home and home once in a while. I just don't like that we ALWAYS seem to play them, and NEVER seem to play anyone else. Truth be told, one of the reasons I'd rather play NKU than Miami H & H is simply because they're a local team that isn't Miami.

....another part of it is that if you can be someone's "Super Bowl" in a game that's very winnable for you and in a game that's of very little cost to you, then go ahead and do it. It's not quite like a Big East road game, but it's more like a Big East road game than what your typical buy game is.

[xubrew]

Kind of going off topic here, but Xavier, Dayton, Wright State, Cincinnati, Miami OH and NKU are all in different conferences. If any five of those teams were to play a round robin within two weeks of each other, it could technically be an exempt tournament. We don't have to bracket it, or do anything. We could just play it at campus sites.

I'm becoming more and more concerned about the lack of interest in college basketball prior to March. This would certainly generate interest in the months of either November or December. Teams could even be in another exempt tournament if they wanted to be. It's just that they could only count one of the tournament's games as exempt.

[sirthought]

Kind of going off topic here, but Xavier, Dayton, Wright State, Cincinnati, Miami OH and NKU are all in different conferences. If any five of those teams were to play a round robin within two weeks of each other, it could technically be an exempt tournament. We don't have to bracket it, or do anything. We could just play it at campus sites.

I'm becoming more and more concerned about the lack of interest in college basketball prior to March. This would certainly generate interest in the months of either November or December. Teams could even be in another exempt tournament if they wanted to be. It's just that they could only count one of the tournament's games as exempt.

I like this option better than a home and home...or even the buy game.

It makes no sense for X to promote the NKU program, even just by playing them at home. May sound bad, but as that program grows it's only going to make it harder for schools like X and UC to recruit talent from the region. Why accelerate that symptom?

[Milhouse]

Kind of going off topic here, but Xavier, Dayton, Wright State, Cincinnati, Miami OH and NKU are all in different conferences. If any five of those teams were to play a round robin within two weeks of each other, it could technically be an exempt tournament. We don't have to bracket it, or do anything. We could just play it at campus sites.

I'm becoming more and more concerned about the lack of interest in college basketball prior to March. This would certainly generate interest in the months of either November or December. Teams could even be in another exempt tournament if they wanted to be. It's just that they could only count one of the tournament's games as exempt.

Love this idea similar to the Big 5 in Philly. Helps with scheduling some quality opponents as well.

[Juice]

Kind of going off topic here, but Xavier, Dayton, Wright State, Cincinnati, Miami OH and NKU are all in different conferences. If any five of those teams were to play a round robin within two weeks of each other, it could technically be an exempt tournament. We don't have to bracket it, or do anything. We could just play it at campus sites.

I'm becoming more and more concerned about the lack of interest in college basketball prior to March. This would certainly generate interest in the months of either November or December. Teams could even be in another exempt tournament if they wanted to be. It's just that they could only count one of the tournament's games as exempt.

XU and UC would not play the other teams in this tournament. UD won't play Wright State. There are no positives to this other than having really close travel sites and some local rivalries.

[xubrew]

XU and UC would not play the other teams in this tournament. UD won't play Wright State. There are no positives to this other than having really close travel sites and some local rivalries.

Yeah, other than local rivalries that interest the fans, close travel, and an exempt event, there's not much to gain.

[xubrew]

I like this option better than a home and home...or even the buy game.

It makes no sense for X to promote the NKU program, even just by playing them at home. May sound bad, but as that program grows it's only going to make it harder for schools like X and UC to recruit talent from the region. Why accelerate that symptom?

Xavier playing NKU won't accelerate their program, and not playing them won't slow it down. It would just be an interesting game to have on the schedule that could kind of tweak the numbers a bit. Nothing more. Nothing less.

San Diego State is not accelerating San Diego's program by playing them home and home. Marquette isn't doing that with Wisconsin Milwaukee either. Nova really isn't doing crap for Penn or La Salle. La Salle had a couple of good years, but it wasn't due to Nova being on the schedule. It's just one game that is potentially interesting to the fans in that area, and then fades into the background. We played Miami for so long, and it didn't accelerate them, even when they beat us. And as far as us not playing UD anymore, that seems to have done very little to slow down their growth.

[GoMuskies]

Yeah, other than local rivalries that interest the fans

I'm interested in UC and Dayton of that group. And we already play UC. I wouldn't be interested in any of the others any more than I'm interested in a game against IUPU-FW.

[xubrew]

I'd have been interested in IPFW a couple years ago. Not sure about now. But If you're interested in two, why not play all four and make it exempt since doing so gives you two freebies??

[GoMuskies]

Because Orlando and events of that ilk are a lot more interesting.

[Juice]

Yeah, other than local rivalries that interest the fans, close travel, and an exempt event, there's not much to gain.

It gains the XU program nothing.

[xubrew]

It gains the XU program nothing.

Other than local rivals (and even that's probably overstating it) and close travel, you're right. But, at least it does that, which is more than more than what most other buy games do.

[Backyard Champ]

I'd have been interested in IPFW a couple years ago. Not sure about now. But If you're interested in two, why not play all four and make it exempt since doing so gives you two freebies??

Just because we haven't played well recently in them, doesn't mean we shouldn't go to preseason tourneys. Pretty much every tourney that we were in either was, or had potential to be far more valuable than playing local cupcakes. The experience alone is good for team bonding(I'd assume).

However, if we are talking UC, UK, OSU, IU, UL, Butler, Xavier, ND.. I'd be interested in that.

[xubrew]

I agree. I actually like the exempt tournaments. It's really just the buy games I don't like (most of them anyway). Playing the local teams would be a step up, and still serve the same purpose. They're slightly more interesting and they can tweak the numbers a little more on our favor by winning the 'road' games

[LadyMuskie]

I don't know for sure, but I'd have to guess that when it comes to scheduling, the questions that have to be asked are:
1. Does it elevate XU Basketball as a program?
2. IF we lose, does it do more harm to our RPI, SOS, etc. than winning would help?
3. What does XU gain as a program from playing a particular team?
4. How do these games help or hurt the rest of the schedule?

I can't think of any reason to play NKU right now other than they're close by, and that's not a legitimate reason to play another team (see Miami and Dayton as other examples). If NKU can make a name for itself in it's conference, and can win games, then I could see it as a buy game. But playing at NKU? No. Not to sound like a snob, but we're past that. We've paid our dues, and I'd much rather see us play in Orlando against real teams and dayton, than play other local teams just because they're local. It's like saying we should schedule home and homes with Evansville and Detroit Mercy for old time's sake.

[GoMuskies]

I agree. I actually like the exempt tournaments. It's really just the buy games I don't like (most of them anyway). Playing the local teams would be a step up, and still serve the same purpose. They're slightly more interesting and they can tweak the numbers a little more on our favor by winning the 'road' games

You prefer Wright State and NKU to Murray State and Stephen F. Austin? Because I don't.

[waggy]

X can schedule better home and homes than NKU. But road wins are also an important metric for the resume, and I'm pretty sure larger programs have scheduled these types of games recently. The tougher your conference is the more attractive something like this becomes.

[xubrew]

You prefer Wright State and NKU to Murray State and Stephen F. Austin? Because I don't.

No. You know I don't, but thanks for letting me clarify. I said MOST buy games. Truth be told, I wouldn't mind a home and home with a team like Murray State.

[XfansinKy]

Kind of going off topic here, but Xavier, Dayton, Wright State, Cincinnati, Miami OH and NKU are all in different conferences. If any five of those teams were to play a round robin within two weeks of each other, it could technically be an exempt tournament. We don't have to bracket it, or do anything. We could just play it at campus sites.

I'm becoming more and more concerned about the lack of interest in college basketball prior to March. This would certainly generate interest in the months of either November or December. Teams could even be in another exempt tournament if they wanted to be. It's just that they could only count one of the tournament's games as exempt.
That would be awesome. Come up with two more teams and have a tournament.

[xubrew]

That would be awesome. Come up with two more teams and have a tournament.

You don't need two more teams. Five is enough. The rules are that you need at least five teams, they all need to be in different conferences, you can play up to four games, and all the games must take place within fourteen days.

[XfansinKy]

You don't need two more teams. Five is enough. The rules are that you need at least five teams, they all need to be in different conferences, you can play up to four games, and all the games must take place within fourteen days.
I did not know that. Gotta figure it would be neat to get it televised locally. Only thing is Xavier would be every other teams target.

[xubrew]

I don't know for sure, but I'd have to guess that when it comes to scheduling, the questions that have to be asked are:
1. Does it elevate XU Basketball as a program?
2. IF we lose, does it do more harm to our RPI, SOS, etc. than winning would help?
3. What does XU gain as a program from playing a particular team?
4. How do these games help or hurt the rest of the schedule?

I can't think of any reason to play NKU right now other than they're close by, and that's not a legitimate reason to play another team (see Miami and Dayton as other examples). If NKU can make a name for itself in it's conference, and can win games, then I could see it as a buy game. But playing at NKU? No. Not to sound like a snob, but we're past that. We've paid our dues, and I'd much rather see us play in Orlando against real teams and dayton, than play other local teams just because they're local. It's like saying we should schedule home and homes with Evansville and Detroit Mercy for old time's sake.

The answers to #1, #3 and #4 are No, Nothing and Neither. If we were playing a regular buy game then the answers would also be the same.

But, the answer to #2 is NO!!! That's not the case with a regular buy game. For that reason, I submit that it's better to play local home and homes than regular buy games. Going 2-1 on the road is the equivalent to going (2.8)-(0.6) in the adjusted RPI. Going 3-0 at home is 1.8-0. So, winning just two road games adds up to more wins than winning three home games. Not only are these games somewhat mildly interesting, they are also very winnable even as a road game, which can tweak the numbers.

I would prefer this to buy games. They are mildly interesting at best, but most buy games aren't interesting at all. They also tweak the numbers more in our favor.

The ONLY games where teams pretty much truly have everything to lose and nothing to gain are buy games. Winning them does nothing for you, and losing them will always count as a bad loss. Even if you win them all it can still come back to bite you.

If nothing else, the brain dead selection committee sees an additional road win on your team sheet, which I think at least subconsciously works in your favor.

[Juice]

The answers to #1, #3 and #4 are No, Nothing and Neither. If we were playing a regular buy game then the answers would also be the same.

But, the answer to #2 is NO!!! That's not the case with a regular buy game. For that reason, I submit that it's better to play local home and homes than regular buy games. Going 2-1 on the road is the equivalent to going (2.8)-(0.6) in the adjusted RPI. Going 3-0 at home is 1.8-0. So, winning just two road games adds up to more wins than winning three home games. Not only are these games somewhat mildly interesting, they are also very winnable even as a road game, which can tweak the numbers.

I would prefer this to buy games. They are mildly interesting at best, but most buy games aren't interesting at all. They also tweak the numbers more in our favor.

The ONLY games where teams pretty much truly have everything to lose and nothing to gain are buy games. Winning them does nothing for you, and losing them will always count as a bad loss. Even if you win them all it can still come back to bite you.

If nothing else, the brain dead selection committee sees an additional road win on your team sheet, which I think at least subconsciously works in your favor.

Miami had a RPI of 230, NKU was 265, and Wright St. was 263.

X's worst RPI games this season were IUPUI at 258 and Mizzou at 218. Mizzou probably will not be that bad again in awhile.

Doing this little tournament would kill X's RPI while also giving small-time area teams what they want. It's a no-win situation for X.

[XU 87]

Brew, you're a smart guy, but playing NKU on the road is not smart. X has everything to lose, including lost home game revenue, and nothing to gain.

[xubrew]

X can schedule better home and homes than NKU. But road wins are also an important metric for the resume, and I'm pretty sure larger programs have scheduled these types of games recently. The tougher your conference is the more attractive something like this becomes.

Not many, but a few. Virginia has started doing it. In fact, I think Tony Bennett said he now wants to open the season with a road game against a local team. They opened at James Madison last year. His thinking is that it's a winnable game, but it gets them used to playing on the road in an electric environment, but that they really don't have that much to lose because...well...they just don't. If they lose, oh well. It's just a foot note once they get into conference play.

In our last Elite Eight appearance, Miami beat us during the year. We didn't have everything to lose. We really didn't lose much of anything.

[GoMuskies]

In our last Elite Eight appearance, Miami beat us during the year. We didn't have everything to lose. We really didn't lose much of anything.

I lost some hair watching that fucking game. Thanks for reminding me!

[LadyMuskie]

If they lose, oh well. It's just a foot note once they get into conference play.

In our last Elite Eight appearance, Miami beat us during the year. We didn't have everything to lose. We really didn't lose much of anything.

Except in years when the bubble is tight, one more bad loss could mean the difference in a seeding or not even playing. Too much risk, not enough reward. And I'm not sure how you plan on selling this idea by saying bringing up the fact that we lost to Miami. That's precisely why we no longer play Miami.

I'm all for being road tested before conference games start. But I think you can accomplish that by playing really good teams in tournaments, as opposed to a bunch a really bad teams on their home courts.

And, as a fan, ignoring all the RPI reasoning and so forth, it just really isn't exciting to play teams that aren't that good (or are just barely DIvision I) just because they're a hop, skip and a jump from campus. We need to broaden our horizons.

[XUFan09]

I think we can all agree that the reason Xavier plays these buy games is to tune up, to shake off some of the off-season rust. There's a very small chance of losing and nothing to be gained from winning the games in themselves, but they help to prepare Xavier for the notable games later on. A road game against a cupcake at the beginning of the season would serve the same purpose:

1) Very small chance of losing (plus in that unlikely event, the loss wouldn't hurt as much as a home loss to a cupcake).
2) A little to be directly gained in a win by boosting the road record, a fetish of the Selection Committee, whereas the equivalent home game offers nothing.
3) A tune up for playing on the road before notable road games. Playing neutral court games doesn't fully prepare a team for road games, especially if those neutral court games are in a practically empty arena.

"Too much risk, not enough reward" and "not that exciting"? The same thing could be said of buy games. Just turn one of those buy games into a local road game, somewhere within an hour or two away. Miami might be a bad choice, because they seemed to get up for the Xavier game, but it might also be because they were coached by Charlie Coles. There are plenty of options, though, and no one will miss the Northern Arizona game.

[waggy]

You'd probably only do it the years opposite the crosstown shootout road game.

[WCWIII]

This thread confuses me. We just came off one of the most important off-season OOC scheduling exercises ever. SFA and Murray State (and Florida Gulf Coast, UTEP, Northern Arizona) all had a significant positive impact on our RPI/Ken Pom ranking etc. (see Exp Impact (http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Xavier.html)). How important, late in the year, was it showing how many Big East School were in the top 50 RPI. That removed much of the talk about the Thanksgiving tournament and even losing to Creighton. Missouri had our biggest negative impact on our RPI (outside of BE schools) despite it being a win on the road.

We were darn lucky, or Mario was skilled, that some of these "buy" games also kept us in the top Ken Pomeroy rankings. I'm going with Mario being skilled and I'm not going to second guess his or the athletic department's work to try to put together the best schedule for Xavier for that particular season. If and when it makes sense for NKU to be included (like they win the ASun), then it will happen.

[Milhouse]

West Virginia played there last year FYI.

[X-band '01]

West Virginia also had neutral-court games with VMI, Marshall (in-state rivalry) and NC State in the non-conference season. I'd love to know how VMI was a neutral-court game; that wasn't part of their exempt tournament from earlier in the season.

[XU 87]

X also plays "buy games" because the school makes money when playing said games.

[xubrew]

Except in years when the bubble is tight, one more bad loss could mean the difference in a seeding or not even playing. Too much risk, not enough reward. And I'm not sure how you plan on selling this idea by saying bringing up the fact that we lost to Miami. That's precisely why we no longer play Miami..

Believe me, Miami is NOT my selling point. It's my counter point. Me hearing "We have everything to lose and nothing to gain" is like hearing nails on a chalk board. You could make that argument about virtually any game if you really wanted to. I'm not going to sit here and say playing NKU will create a seismic shift in our favor, but it wouldn't create a seismic shift against us either. In the best season we ever had (at least as far as seeding and how far we went in the NCAA Tournament), we played a similar type of road game, and we lost. We didn't lose much of anything, much less EVERYTHING. We play in the Big East now. If we could compensate for that loss to the point of earning a #3 seed and making the Elite Eight back then, we can certainly compensate for it now.

If the bubble is tight, maybe winning one more road game helps us, whereas winning a meaningless buy game at home is a non event.

Alright, full disclosure, I don't care THAT much. Truth be told We've got 219 more days, and I just wanted something to talk about. Having said that, there are a couple of schools, and one in particular (Virginia), that's starting to do things like this. After hearing some reasons why and thinking about it, it started to make more sense than not. It's a tune up in an electric road atmosphere in a game that you're going to win most of the time. It's a road win on the profile. If you lose, so what? If you start winning in the ACC no one will remember or care, and it gets them more ready for winning in the ACC than the majority of crappy home games they could play. If you feel you have everything to lose, then chances are your team isn't worth a crap anyway, which is your real problem.

Also, If you're going to play weaker teams, your chances of beating them on the road are very high, and beating them on the road tweaks the numbers in your favor than beating them at home, and chances are you'll come out ahead even if you lose one of them. If you schedule two and win just one, it's stll better than winning two at home in regards to total wins in the adjusted RPI. That last point I came up with myself, but add that to everything else and I can't help but think that it's not a bad idea.

There aren't any examples of teams who play those types of games that have had their profiles or statuses downgraded because they choose to do so. I'm not saying anyone has had their status elevated, but I am saying that teams don't have "everything to lose." They actually have very little to lose.

Now, I'd be much more strongly in favor of simply not scheduling any buy games or any weak teams at all. If the concern is avoiding bad losses, then just eliminate ALL bad teams.

[Kahns Krazy]

I could get on board with one 2-1. I think there is some perception benefit to playing there that is consistent with "The Xavier Way". I think it would generate a ton of favorable coverage in the area. Having said that, there's no way I would want to play there more than once ever.

[xubrew]

I could get on board with one 2-1. I think there is some perception benefit to playing there that is consistent with "The Xavier Way". I think it would generate a ton of favorable coverage in the area. Having said that, there's no way I would want to play there more than once ever.

Well, they paid Louisville a half a million bucks to come there and open the new arena. It was a crazy situation. It was Louisville's exhibition game, but since NKU was a div2 team at the time, it was actually a regular season game for them. So, technically, it was a buy game, and Louisville was on the RECEIVING end.

If they gave Xavier a half a million bucks I think we should consider it.

[LadyMuskie]

If they gave Xavier a half a million bucks I think we should consider it.

Absolutely! They should skip considering it and just do it. But, that's a lot different from a home and home series.

[X-band '01]

Absolutely! They should skip considering it and just do it. But, that's a lot different from a home and home series.

That's still better than Xavier opening their legs to play Duke in a buy game in New Jersey a few years ago. And that was for absolutely squat.

[LadyMuskie]

That's still better than Xavier opening their legs to play Duke in a buy game in New Jersey a few years ago. And that was for absolutely squat.

It wasn't totally for naught. We also got to get our asses kicked all over the court in one of the most embarrassing basketball displays in the history of the college game. And it was on t.v.!

[GoMuskies]

And I drove through a snowstorm to get there and left at halftime!

[xubrew]

I remember I drove home to visit my parents, who do not have satellite, and CBS cut away from the game. The moral of the story is to never visit your family during the basketball season.

[Kahns Krazy]

I remember I drove home to visit my parents, who do not have satellite, and CBS cut away from the game. The moral of the story is to never visit your family.

Fixed that for you.

[xubrew]

Thanks. Good looking out.

[muskiefan82]

I think what we need to do is have XU, UC, Ohio State, UK, UL, IU and agree to an exempt tournament. The 8th team comes from the winner of their own exempt tournament involving NKU, WKU, UD, Wright St, Miami, Valpo, IPFW, and Cleveland St.

They get 4 exempt games in their exempt tournament and 3 "regular" games in our exempt tournament. The 4th game for our exempt tourney is some other team entirely.

I wonder if that is within the rules? I guess we'd have to find someone to replace either IU or OSU since they are from the same conference. Seems like it would be and would account for just 4 of our games, but seven for the low/mid majors AND give them three games against high level competition.

It would be the Tri-State Championship play in tournament followed by the actual Championship.

[xubrew]

I think what we need to do is have XU, UC, Ohio State, UK, UL, IU and agree to an exempt tournament. The 8th team comes from the winner of their own exempt tournament involving NKU, WKU, UD, Wright St, Miami, Valpo, IPFW, and Cleveland St.

They get 4 exempt games in their exempt tournament and 3 "regular" games in our exempt tournament. The 4th game for our exempt tourney is some other team entirely.

I wonder if that is within the rules? I guess we'd have to find someone to replace either IU or OSU since they are from the same conference. Seems like it would be and would account for just 4 of our games, but seven for the low/mid majors AND give them three games against high level competition.

It would be the Tri-State Championship play in tournament followed by the actual Championship.

You'd need someone to replace Ohio State or IU. Wright State, Valpo and Cleveland State are all in the same league, but other than that it's technically within the rules. Our fourth game could just be the regularly scheduled game against UC. Same with UL and UK.

If we can't even organize a five team Queen City Round Robin, then your proposal is an extreme long shot.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Welp, looks like Brew gets his wish:

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 4m4 minutes ago
#Xavier hoops fans, get ready. Four non-conference games are about to be released, including the Dec. 12 Crosstown Shootout against UC.

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 3m3 minutes ago
Huge hometown flavor in these four #Xavier games. First: Miami University is back on the schedule for the Nov. 13 opener.

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 3m3 minutes ago
Second, #Xavier hosts NKU on Nov. 23. Third, XU hosts Wright State on Dec. 8. And as mentioned, the Shootout at Cintas Center is Dec. 12.

[GoMuskies]

XU hosts Wright State on Dec. 8.

Well, that is interesting. I can think of one place this may not go over so well.

[THRILLHOUSE]

and if you were wondering, buy games not home and home:

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 2m2 minutes ago
The Musketeers face Miami U., NKU, Wright State & UC, all by Dec. 12. The first 3 are guarantee games (no return trips for #Xavier).

[X-Fan]

Well, that is interesting. I can think of one place this may not go over so well.

I would imagine their board is going to lose their watermellons over this.

[MCXU]

I just heard a scream come from somewhere up I-75. Any idea what that was?

[xubrew]

Welp, looks like Brew gets his wish:

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 4m4 minutes ago
#Xavier hoops fans, get ready. Four non-conference games are about to be released, including the Dec. 12 Crosstown Shootout against UC.

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 3m3 minutes ago
Huge hometown flavor in these four #Xavier games. First: Miami University is back on the schedule for the Nov. 13 opener.

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 3m3 minutes ago
Second, #Xavier hosts NKU on Nov. 23. Third, XU hosts Wright State on Dec. 8. And as mentioned, the Shootout at Cintas Center is Dec. 12.

I'd be more excited if Wright State had won more than nine games last year, and/or if I had any reason to believe they'd be better this upcoming year. But, I do like we're playing the local teams. It's nice to see someone local other than Miami OH on the schedule for a change.

[X-band '01]

I just heard a scream come from somewhere up I-75. Any idea what that was?

Toledo? Michigan? Detroit-Mercy?

[waggy]

Hide your watermelons!

[MCXU]

Toledo? Michigan? Detroit-Mercy?

It's hard to say where the scream came from.

The scream didn't sound like someone was scared or startled but more like the scream of someone who just walked in on his worst enemy nailing his girlfriend... and his mom at the same time.

[markchal]

I feel like we did a good job last year of scheduling teams who weren't total RPI killers. I know NKU and Wright St won't be like SFA, but any reason to think they can at least be in the high 100s/low 2s?

[casualfan]

I feel like we did a good job last year of scheduling teams who weren't total RPI killers. I know NKU and Wright St won't be like SFA, but any reason to think they can at least be in the high 100s/low 2s?

I don't know about Wright State (although someone said they only won 9 games last year), but NKU should be pretty bad next year.

They lost three of their top six scorers off a team that finished last year at 265 in the rpi. They also will have a new coach next season.

[paulxu]

I think they scheduled these games because the buy is such a small dollar amount.
Leaves them more money to pay Mack to keep him here.

#conspiracytheoryfourteen

[XU 87]

I'd be more excited if Wright State had won more than nine games last year, and/or if I had any reason to believe they'd be better this upcoming year. But, I do like we're playing the local teams. It's nice to see someone local other than Miami OH on the schedule for a change.

I like playing NKU, but only as a buy game. Miami is ok as well, but only as a buy game. Wright State may be an hour away, but I don't think anyone in this area cares about Wright State.

Personally, I'd rather play a Murray State or Stephen Austin instead of Miami or Wright State.

[bjf123]

Guess what I want on my birthday this year? Yep, a Crosstown Shootout win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

I like playing NKU, but only as a buy game. Miami is ok as well, but only as a buy game. Wright State may be an hour away, but I don't think anyone in this area cares about Wright State.

Personally, I'd rather play a Murray State or Stephen Austin instead of Miami or Wright State.

As far as buy games go, I would too.

My reasons are both quantitative and qualitative. Wright State, NKU and Miami are home games we'd win close to 100 percent of the time, and road games we'd win probably 90 percent of the time, especially as poor as those teams appear to be for next year.

You get 0.6 wins for a home game in the adjusted RPI, and 1.4 wins for a road game.

If you have a 100 percent chance of winning $60, or an 90% chance of winning $140, the better bet by far is to go for the $140. Even if you only win two out of the three, quantitatively, you come out ahead.

There are a smattering of teams that are starting to do this, and I think you'll see more and more of it over time. Play a road game that is a mere bus ride away and where at least half the fans will be for you against a team that you should have a relatively easy time beating. You get more than twice the credit. You also get a road win on your team sheet, and I think there are some members on the committee that favor the number of road wins so much, that they seemingly subconsciously forget how good the opponent was, or that half the crowd was rooting for you.

It's not nearly the same as what a Big East road game is like. Not even close. But, it's still better than just playing at home. As bad as those teams are looking for next year, an inter squad game may be better than simply playing those teams at home.

We supposedly have all this extra money now from the Big East, so if our reasons for playing buy games are merely financial, then why do we need to play as many of them??

There is no logical reasons to not play the local teams home and home. I don't consider feeling that it is beneath us to be a logical reason, but we won't do it, and I know we won't do it, and I know that is probably the reason for not doing it.

[XU 87]

There is no logical reasons to not play the local teams home and home. I don't consider feeling that it is beneath us to be a logical reason, but we won't do it, and I know we won't do it, and I know that is probably the reason for not doing it.

I suspect there is a big logical reason- XU doesn't get all the revenue of having 10,000 people attending a home game.

[GoMuskies]

I suspect there is a big logical reason- XU doesn't get all the revenue of having 10,000 people attending a home game.

Add: Xavier didn't build Cintas Center so that we can fuck around playing games in Highland Heights.

[X-band '01]

Or Fairborn.

[casualfan]

I suspect there is a big logical reason- XU doesn't get all the revenue of having 10,000 people attending a home game.

Does anyone know what type of profit the school nets for a home game?

I just wonder how that compares to the cost of paying a school like NKU for a buy game (i don't know what that number is either).

Obviously if it was a home and home or just us going there we wouldn't be paying them anything.

[xubrew]

Add: Xavier didn't build Cintas Center so that we can fuck around playing games in Highland Heights.

No, we built the Cintas Center to play Big East caliber competition in, which NKU is not, so what's the difference?? It's one game every two years (or I guess one game a year if we alternate between NKU and someone else), that boosts the numbers in our favor. It's not like we're playing the entire schedule there.

Plus, we'd still get the TV revenue either way.

[paulxu]

We need to pay Dayton to come to Cintas next year. There will be a new president.

[muskiefan82]

We need to pay Dayton to come to Cintas next year. There will be a new president.

Why pay? They will come without a monetary incentive. They need this game. Have you seen the wreck that is the A-10 now?

[XUFan09]

Why pay? They will come without a monetary incentive. They need this game. Have you seen the wreck that is the A-10 now?
I think he was dissing them by suggesting that they are buy-game quality.

[muskiefan82]

They aren't worth paying. Perhaps they could pay X to allow them to come here?

[xukeith]

No, we built the Cintas Center to play Big East caliber competition in, which NKU is not, so what's the difference?? It's one game every two years (or I guess one game a year if we alternate between NKU and someone else), that boosts the numbers in our favor. It's not like we're playing the entire schedule there.

Plus, we'd still get the TV revenue either way.

Big time basketball schools play away games against RPI strong opponents OR a conference that is in top 6 rankings.

Xavier has NOTHING to gain by traveling to NKU every other or every 4th year. X is big time. Keep paying NKU and small schools to come to Cintas.

[xubrew]

Big time basketball schools play away games against RPI strong opponents OR a conference that is in top 6 rankings.

Xavier has NOTHING to gain by traveling to NKU every other or every 4th year. X is big time. Keep paying NKU and small schools to come to Cintas.

This is just false. You can say Xavier doesn't need to do it. You can say that most big programs don't do it. You can't say they have less to gain by playing a home and home than they do by just playing buy games at home. That is simply not true. Playing winnable road games tweaks the numbers in your favor. That IS something to gain. It's not a necessary gain, but it is a gain as was explained above.

Is Virginia a big time basketball school?? Is North Carolina?? Is Wisconsin?? They're starting to do this because (at least in Virginia's case) they've noticed that it actually is helpful both on and off paper. If all ten Big East teams scheduled just one road game like that, the numbers would be a lot higher. Even if one or two of the teams lost the game, which is probably the most they'd ever lose, that's eight more road wins for the conference, which DOES boost the numbers. If you want to know how the A10 tweaked the data the year they got six teams in (and I don't think it was done intentionally) that's how. Playing just one less buy game and replacing it with a winnable road game would make a difference. There is something to gain.

[Olsingledigit]

Does anyone know what type of profit the school nets for a home game?

I just wonder how that compares to the cost of paying a school like NKU for a buy game (i don't know what that number is either).

Obviously if it was a home and home or just us going there we wouldn't be paying them anything.

In calculating profit per game you need to consider the seat premiums paid for those seats. Without a full home schedule there would be no seat premiums so it is appropriate to allocate a portion of each seat premium to each home game. (Thanks Xavier Cost Accounting.)

[casualfan]

In calculating profit per game you need to consider the seat premiums paid for those seats. Without a full home schedule there would be no seat premiums so it is appropriate to allocate a portion of each seat premium to each home game. (Thanks Xavier Cost Accounting.)

Wouldn't you also consider the opponent though?

For example, it wouldn't make sense to place an equal amount of the premium on the buy games as it would on the Nova and Georgetown games.

At the end of the day i just don't think the presence of a buy games affects people's willingness to pay that premium very much.

You start taking out georgetown and nova home games and people's desire may go down. You remove NKU and I doubt anyone would bat an eye.

[GoMuskies]

It's doubtful that an accountant would do anything other than take the premium and divide it by the number of games and allocate the premiums equally across all games.

Now, a financial analyst who was trying to be more predictive as opposed to historical would be more likely to use a more dynamic model like they one you're suggesting.

[xubrew]

In calculating profit per game you need to consider the seat premiums paid for those seats. Without a full home schedule there would be no seat premiums so it is appropriate to allocate a portion of each seat premium to each home game. (Thanks Xavier Cost Accounting.)

Does the seat licensing and cost of season tickets fluctuate with the number of games?? What about the exhibition games?? Serious question. Every place does it differently and I don't know how Xavier does it.

If students get in free, and the cost of season tickets and seat licensing is pretty much the same regardless of the number of home games, and you're paying out between $70k and $100K per buy game, then you're really not losing that much money at all by playing one or two less of them. If anything, you could demand about 1500 tickets from the other school so you could sell them through your ticket office and offset even more of the loss. But, I don't know if that's how Xavier does it.

[X-band '01]

I think there's a fixed commitment per year (or 3-5 years in the case of premium seats) for the premium seats, but the actual price of the season ticket will vary per year based on the number of games played. The exhibition is included in the season tickets, so it would stand to reason that the premiums would be allocated for the exhibition as well.

[casualfan]

It's doubtful that an accountant would do anything other than take the premium and divide it by the number of games and allocate the premiums equally across all games.

Now, a financial analyst who was trying to be more predictive as opposed to historical would be more likely to use a more dynamic model like they one you're suggesting.

Yeah, i don't do accounting or finance, but common sense tells me that there are certain opponents whose presence on the schedule would affect people's willingness to pay those fees more than others.

[BMoreX]

Joe Danneman @FOX19Joe · 21m 21 minutes ago

BREAKING: Source confirms NKU will be moving to the Horizon League for all sports. Pending board approval Monday.
64 retweets 21 favorites

[X-band '01]

That's also going to put the Atlantic Sun on the brink of losing their automatic bid.

NJIT is the only independent they could invite to the conference; otherwise they'll probably have to consider inviting someone from Division II

[THRILLHOUSE]

Joe Danneman @FOX19Joe · 21m 21 minutes ago

BREAKING: Source confirms NKU will be moving to the Horizon League for all sports. Pending board approval Monday.
64 retweets 21 favorites

Good move. Back about 10 years or so when NKU started exploring the move to D1, they wanted to go to the Horizon League.

[Olsingledigit]

It's doubtful that an accountant would do anything other than take the premium and divide it by the number of games and allocate the premiums equally across all games.

Now, a financial analyst who was trying to be more predictive as opposed to historical would be more likely to use a more dynamic model like they one you're suggesting.

I guess neither of you read what I said. A PORTION of the premium. I did not say I would allocate it equally. I spent thirty years testifying as a financial expert and got the best of many financial analysts who forsook simplicity for complexity to the consternation of many a judge or jury.

[GoMuskies]

I didn't read what you said. And I wasn't responding to you. No biggie.