UK's making a mockery of college basketball

[bleedXblue]

Just curious about what some think.......

I'm pretty disillusioned with what's going on at Kentucky right now. You can call flat out jealousy if you want and you wouldn't be wrong.

We have pro sports leagues that are wildly successful with a salary cap (NFL).

Why wouldn't the NCAA not implement a rule where ANY school can't monopolize the best high school talent every year?

Seems to me they would want to have more teams enjoying better talent across the board and have a pool of 15-20 teams that could win a championship in any given year.

UK has been to 4 of the last 5 final 4's. Soon to have their 9th National Championship.

They will simply reload with 4 or 5 MCD's All Americans next year.

This board would implode if we were lucky enough to get one Blue Chip every 3-4 years.

I don't want to hear Calipari is a great coach. He's simply taking advantage of the system the NCAA has in place.

Thoughts?

[casualfan]

Just curious about what some think.......

I'm pretty disillusioned with what's going on at Kentucky right now. You can call flat out jealousy if you want and you wouldn't be wrong.

We have pro sports leagues that are wildly successful with a salary cap (NFL).

Why wouldn't the NCAA not implement a rule where ANY school can't monopolize the best high school talent every year?

Seems to me they would want to have more teams enjoying better talent across the board and have a pool of 15-20 teams that could win a championship in any given year.

UK has been to 4 of the last 5 final 4's. Soon to have their 9th National Championship.

The will simply reload with 4 or 5 MCD's All Americans next year.

This board would implode if we were lucky enough to get one Blue Chip every 3-4 years.

I don't want to hear Calipari is a great coach. He's simply taking advantage of the system the NCAA has in place.

Thoughts?

And exactly how do you propose doing that?

[GoMuskies]

This is the most insane proposal I've seen on this board since MHettel proposed going independent.

[muskiefan82]

This won't continue forever. Eventually, the talent will spread out again either because of ego of the players or some other reason. Calipari has found a system that works for him today, but it will change again in the future. Even so, UK is only undefeated because they play in the SEC and they were lucky a few times.

[LA Muskie]

There is a salary cap. Schools are limited to 13 schollies. UK just manages the cap better.

[brownlavender]

what i don't understand is how they can't be sanctioned. Nobody graduates from the basketball team

[LA Muskie]

They actually score very well on the APR. In fact they had a perfect score for the '12-'13 school year.

[Juice]

Just curious about what some think.......

I'm pretty disillusioned with what's going on at Kentucky right now. You can call flat out jealousy if you want and you wouldn't be wrong.

We have pro sports leagues that are wildly successful with a salary cap (NFL).

Why wouldn't the NCAA not implement a rule where ANY school can't monopolize the best high school talent every year?

Seems to me they would want to have more teams enjoying better talent across the board and have a pool of 15-20 teams that could win a championship in any given year.

UK has been to 4 of the last 5 final 4's. Soon to have their 9th National Championship.

They will simply reload with 4 or 5 MCD's All Americans next year.

This board would implode if we were lucky enough to get one Blue Chip every 3-4 years.

I don't want to hear Calipari is a great coach. He's simply taking advantage of the system the NCAA has in place.

Thoughts?

Duke might have equal the amount or more one and dones than UK this year. I honestly don't know why people have a problem with UK bringing in one and dones. I don't think he's taking advantage of anything (unless someone is paying them or they're cheating in classes).

[LadyMuskie]

Is this a belated April Fools Day thread?

[casualfan]

The rule got changed a few years back so that if a kid leaves early it doesn't hurt your APR as long as he leaves in good academic standing (i.e. goes to class for the entire spring semester after bball is over).

[Juice]

what i don't understand is how they can't be sanctioned. Nobody graduates from the basketball team

The players just have to be in good academic standing when they leave the school and that rule makes sense. Why should any team be required to recruit less talented, 4 year players?

Does anyone throw a shit fit when Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg left school early to make millions/billions?

[Xville]

UK isn't the problem. Though I can't UK, they aren't the ones who put the ridiculous age restriction crap...that was the NBA. If you want someone to blame, blame the NBA. We need to go one of two ways to keep UK from doing what they are doing every year....either let kids go straight to the NBA from high school, or adopt the baseball philosophy that you can leave straight from high school, but if you choose to go to college, you have to go 3 years.

[LadyMuskie]

It really boils down to this - life isn't fair. Kentucky, Duke, UNC - they have storied programs. Most casual fans will think of these types of programs when they hear "college basketball". So, if an 18 year old kid with incredible basketball talent wants to put on a jersey on which is the name of one the greatest college programs in history, who can blame him? If any one of us had a son with the level of talent it takes to play at Duke, UK, Kansas, UNC, would we advise him not to play at one of those places because it's unfair to the rest of Division I? I seriously doubt we would.

[xudash]

Animal Farm anyone...

[GoMuskies]

If any one of us had a son with the level of talent it takes to play at Duke, UK, Kansas, UNC, would we advise him not to play at one of those places because it's unfair to the rest of Division I?

No, but I'd disown him if he picked UK.

[LadyMuskie]

No, but I'd disown him if he picked UK.

I'd feel the same way about Duke.

[X Factor]

After Wisconsin beats them on Saturday, they will be remembered as the best team that DIDN'T win a National Championship. They will lose 5 guys to the NBA, and Calipari will bring in another 4-5 Top 20 kids. Repeat next year.

Eventually, Cal will leave and UK will have to find another coach. Tubby Smith won 1 championship and then Cal won 1 fourteen years later. Billy Gillespie was a failure.

[LadyMuskie]

Calipari may not be the greatest coach to ever coach the game, but he does manage to get young men, who tend to be selfish at that age in any event but who are likely to be even more prone to being selfish because of the talent they possess, to play together as a team to the benefit of them all. That's no small feat.

[LA Muskie]

The rule got changed a few years back so that if a kid leaves early it doesn't hurt your APR as long as he leaves in good academic standing (i.e. goes to class for the entire spring semester after bball is over).

This is true, as long as the player is professionally employed in a sport.

Incidentally, getting the kids to stay in class for spring semester is not all that easy. My recollection (although I could be wrong about this) is that neither Crawford nor Semaj did so. Brown graduated.

[D-West & PO-Z]

No, but I'd disown him if he picked UK.


I'd feel the same way about Duke.

I'd make him go to Xavier. Duh.

[paulxu]

I was going to ask where you guys were with all this concern when UCLA won 9 out of 10 championships, and 4 of those years were perfect 30-0 seasons.
In those 9 years they lost a total of 8 games.

Then I realized most of you probably weren't born yet. That depressed me greatly.

[sirthought]

For the sake of both the college and pro game (and probably also the players), I agree with the NBA's age restriction. Adam Silver should implement two years. (I've gone through all the debates over this numerous times. If guys want to go pro overseas or in the D league, more power to them.)

That really doesn't change what the OP was complaining about.

These aren't professional athletes at this stage and they should be able to go to college anywhere they want. Lots of McD's All-Americans have turned out to be a bust, so attracting those to your school doesn't guarantee a successful season year after year.

All programs, X included, would shuffle their scholarships whatever way necessary to get the best team on the floor if a talented kid is willing to come. Good players want to play with good players. So how can we blame UK if they get the chemistry right?

I'd be worrying more about whether they take advantage of the educational opportunity while they are in school, both on and off the court.

[GoMuskies]

After Wisconsin beats them on Saturday, they will be remembered as the best team that DIDN'T win a National Championship.

Nah, they'll still be behind '91 UNLV.

[xubrew]

Isn't saying that UK is making a mockery out of college basketball kind of like saying someone is making strippers look naked??

I'm not a fan of UK, and I wish like hell Notre Dame would have beaten them. But nearly every div1 program would operate the same way if they were able to. If it were div3, a model everyone praises but no one watches, they'd be mocking it. But at div1 they're simply doing what every other program would be doing if they could be doing it.

[xudash]

I was going to ask where you guys were with all this concern when UCLA won 9 out of 10 championships, and 4 of those years were perfect 30-0 seasons.
In those 9 years they lost a total of 8 games.

Then I realized most of you probably weren't born yet. That depressed me greatly.

Great point to bring up, though. I know you were in your 50's then, but I was a very young teenager and remember that run somewhat well. No, seriously, I wonder if people were beginning to take such a position back then. Young people today can't begin to fathom what UCLA was all about back then.

[muskiefan82]

Animal Farm anyone...

Rule #1 All Division 1 NCAA Basketball programs are equal.
Rule #2 Some Division 1 NCAA Basketball programs are more equal than others
Rule #3 Four legs good, two legs bad, jumping off one foot exceptional

[XUFan09]

Isn't saying that UK is making a mockery out of college basketball kind of like saying someone is making strippers look naked??

I'm not a fan of UK, and I wish like hell Notre Dame would have beaten them. But nearly every div1 program would operate the same way if they were able to. If it were div3, a model everyone praises but no one watches, they'd be mocking it. But at div1 they're simply doing what every other program would be doing if they could be doing it.
This.

[smileyy]

UK is the solution, not the problem -- they're making it clear that the NCAA is a developmental league for the NBA and other professional leagues. The sooner that's acknowledged and adjusted to, the better.

[xu82]

I was going to ask where you guys were with all this concern when UCLA won 9 out of 10 championships, and 4 of those years were perfect 30-0 seasons.
In those 9 years they lost a total of 8 games.

Then I realized most of you probably weren't born yet. That depressed me greatly.

But I LIKED Wooden.

[sirthought]

I don't know about Kentucky, honestly. But there have been a lot of people who were in or nearby UCLA's program at that time that talk about all of the things Wooden would do to recruit the best players back then. It's not so complementary.

A lot of it had to do with things like getting high paying jobs for family members or promising that after college they would be ensured of good paying jobs somewhere within a booster's company. Lots of other benefits that were swept under the rug and probably wouldn't happen so easily these days.

[Juice]

But I LIKED Wooden.

Wooden's players might have been paid more than Calipari's. But the man sure did know how to put on a pair of socks.

(As I hope you all can tell, I hate my father's generation for pushing this idea that Wooden was some kind of god)

[Tardy Turtle]

In Soviet Russia national championships win you!

[Kahns Krazy]

Animal Farm anyone...

Err...?

[Kahns Krazy]

UK is the solution, not the problem -- they're making it clear that the NCAA is a developmental league for the NBA and other professional leagues. The sooner that's acknowledged and adjusted to, the better.

There are 4,300 D1 basketball scholarships and 60 NBA draft spots. If the NCAA is a D-league, they are not doing it very well. That is an exceptionally high failure rate.

[letskeepitreal]

Bottom line, the best kids want to play for UK as they have a good track record for kids being drafted very early to the NBA. Can you fault a kid for wanting to play for a program that will allow him to optimize his skill set?

[xubrew]

The NCAA is making a complete mockery of the NCAA!!!

[birdman71]

Most dominant sports team ever. 9 out of 10 is near impossible even when you are the best every year. I remember when they asked Bill Walton who the toughest center he played against in college was. He answered that it was his UCLA backup. Only played at garbage time and went on to a decent NBA career.


I was going to ask where you guys were with all this concern when UCLA won 9 out of 10 championships, and 4 of those years were perfect 30-0 seasons.
In those 9 years they lost a total of 8 games.

Then I realized most of you probably weren't born yet. That depressed me greatly.

[Always Learning]

I know there are people who hate the Yankees, Alabama, Ohio State, etc because they "always win." But, why so many in the Xavier Nation hate UK, and or John Capilari
Back in the day when other than the Catholic schools on the East Coast only UK, IU, and KU gave a damn about basketball, and when the dollars got big via TV, all the rest of the big boys jumped into the deep end.
So the current UK success is nothing new.
College basketball had this run once before with UCLA, so?
UK dominated with Rupp (who BTW won with Kentucky kids) but until Capalari came along, they were not king's of the hill after Rupp.
There is a belief out there that Capilari "cheats" and his detractors point out that two other schools he was at were diciplined by the NCAA, but they fail to also say that in both NCAA findings, the sins were not his.
Is he a good coach? I think so. As to the critics that he only wins because he gets great talent can be said about Coach K, Wooden, Knight, et al. Isn't a part of coaching "recruiting?"
In my days UK was very good to us, even scheduled us in basketball ... until George Krajack told the press that Rupp only won because he has homer referees.
Thanks George.

[bleedXblue]

Bottom line, the best kids want to play for UK as they have a good track record for kids being drafted very early to the NBA. Can you fault a kid for wanting to play for a program that will allow him to optimize his skill set?

No, don't blame them at all.....

I just don't think UK has some magic bullet that turns them into an NBA ready player in 8 months.

Cauley-Stein could have played at any number of schools including X and been a first round pick.

UK is projected to have 7 players drafted in the first two rounds. SEVEN.

[smileyy]

No, don't blame them at all.....

I just don't think UK has some magic bullet that turns them into an NBA ready player in 8 months.


Yeah, its no magic. Its a coach and a staff that knows how to win games while developing players for the NBA as much as they can be in the NCAA.

[xu82]

UK is projected to have 7 players drafted in the first two rounds. SEVEN.

Yeah, that's crazy! How can they even have a decent scrimmage with only 7 NBA players?

Don't worry, Calipari won't last forever. He'll take another shot at the NBA or "the school" will get into trouble of some kind. UK fans travel extremely well, which is both admirable and annoying. Like Patriot fans, they come out of the woodwork when they're winning.

[Masterofreality]

If Slimy Calamari goes pro, that makes "Worldwide Wes" a free agent. What school would he then direct his "portfolio" too?

[smileyy]

There's much less dirt attached to Calipari than there are lots and lots of other coaches/programs. KY can pay him as much as he wants. I don't know that I see him going anywhere.

[xu82]

There's much less dirt attached to Calipari than there are lots and lots of other coaches/programs. KY can pay him as much as he wants. I don't know that I see him going anywhere.

Please do not rain on my parade. I said "please", so I think you have to obey.

I see him getting bored or an itch for something else. I may be wrong, but these guys seem to flit about. I don't see a UCLA type dynasty (even adjusted for inflation).

[xubrew]

People perceive Worldwide Wes as being this hugely important guy that basically runs basketball all over the world. I do believe he enjoys that reputation.

[smileyy]

Please do not rain on my parade. I said "please", so I think you have to obey.

:D



I see him getting bored or an itch for something else. I may be wrong, but these guys seem to flit about. I don't see a UCLA type dynasty (even adjusted for inflation).

The most likely change I see is a change in circumstances where the NBA starts being able to develop and market players better than the NCAA can, and the D-League becomes a true minor league.

I can even see players as young as 16 in the league, if/when the NBA thinks the AAU is hurting player development/marketing (or can get a bigger slice of the pie that way). There are players that young skilled enough to play basketball at a professional (note: Not necessarily NBA-level) level.

[xu82]

:D



The most likely change I see is a change in circumstances where the NBA starts being able to develop and market players better than the NCAA can, and the D-League becomes a true minor league.

I can even see players as young as 16 in the league, if/when the NBA thinks the AAU is hurting player development/marketing (or can get a bigger slice of the pie that way). There are players that young skilled enough to play basketball at a professional (note: Not necessarily NBA-level) level.

As wild and crazy as this might sound, no one would question a tennis player or golfer trying to advance professionally at a younger age. It's not the NFL, where death might be imminent.

PS - rain on a parade might be a raw nerve for a Seattle citizen. You know the hurt.