Coaching Carousel 2015

[casualfan]

We still don't know whether Mack had any interest (not responding to your lists, but the general point...)

These schools don't put together lists of guys they hope would be interested.

The coaches agent reaches out to the search firm the school hired (or vice versa) and by the time the school starts going after guys they're not wasting their time on guys who have no interest in the job.

It's why you don't see a guy like Mark Few popping up on these lists. He's in a similar situation to Chris being a successful coach at a not top-10 school, but his name never comes up.

And that's because he isn't putting his name in the mix.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think that's remotely a universal truth. I've seen some ridiculous names come up in these lists. Perhaps that's because agents put their clients' names in the mix for negotiating leverage with current employers or to keep their names hot for other openings. But I think there are PLENTY of occasions where a guy's name makes one of these lists and he has less than 0% interest in the job.

[casualfan]

I don't think that's remotely a universal truth. I've seen some ridiculous names come up in these lists. Perhaps that's because agents put their clients' names in the mix for negotiating leverage with current employers or to keep their names hot for other openings. But I think there are PLENTY of occasions where a guy's name makes one of these lists and he has less than 0% interest in the job.

Does it happen? Sure.

Is that what happened with Mack and Texas? I doubt it.

What's the more likely scenario? Mack's agent threw his name in the mix to keep it hot for other job openings? Or the guy who almost took the Cal job last year had legit interest in Texas?

[muskiefan82]

If Mack left for Florida (or anywhere for that matter), would X consider Archie Miller? That would be an interesting story line.

[bobbiemcgee]

Rumors abound Billy D to OKC, Archie to FLA

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--thunder-preparing-offer--pushing-to-hire-florida-coach-billy-donovan-145628237.html


Jerry Meyer
‏@jerrymeyer247

Dayton coach Archie Miller is the name that continually pops up as I dig into potential replacements for Billy Donovan were he to leave Fla.

[paulxu]

I don't get the flash equals a new job, although we have had it with both Miller and Matta.
Go to 1 E8 and all of a sudden you are ready for the really big time?
Shaka never made it back to a S16 with even better talent than his FF, and off he goes to Texas.
How is Archie an obvious first choice over Mack for example? Certainly Marshall has a much better resume.

[gladdenguy]

Uh oh.......Archie to Florida gaining traction.

[BMoreX]

@GoodmanESPN: If Donovan does leave Gainesville, no slam dunk choice as his successor at Florida. Two names to watch: Chris Mack and Archie Miller.

[casualfan]

Jeff Goodman (@GoodmanESPN) tweeted at 10:45 PM on Wed, Apr 29, 2015:
If Donovan does leave Gainesville, no slam dunk choice as his successor at Florida. Two names to watch: Chris Mack and Archie Miller.

Goodman and Mack are buddies for what that's worth.

[xu82]

This is the worst time of the year...

[DC Muskie]

If Mack left for Florida (or anywhere for that matter), would X consider Archie Miller? That would be an interesting story line.

I hope that would happen and watch him try and turn us down, while Dayton flips their lid.

[Xville]

I'd be shocked if little pitino didn't get the Florida job. He was on Billy d's staff and recruited really well while there. I know he hasn't done great things at minnesota, and I'm not even sure he's a good coach, but the name and the coaching tree are all that seems to matter in a lot of cases

[Milhouse]

Archie's Job if he wants it. I would think Mack is 2nd on the list...perhaps 3rd.

I wouldn't turn it down if I was Mack. But He's older and wiser so who knows.

[casualfan]

Archie's Job if he wants it. I would think Mack is 2nd on the list...perhaps 3rd.

I wouldn't turn it down if I was Mack. But He's older and wiser so who knows.

The only thing that worries me about Archie maybe turning them down is that their roster is a total dumpster fire right now.

They've already lost Chris Walker and Eli Carter and Finney-Smith is likely in a position to do a grad transfer if he wanted to do that.

There just isn't a whole lot of talent on that roster right now.

[Xville]

The only thing that worries me about Archie maybe turning them down is that their roster is a total dumpster fire right now.

They've already lost Chris Walker and Eli Carter and Finney-Smith is likely in a position to do a grad transfer if he wanted to do that.

There just isn't a whole lot of talent on that roster right now.

If mack leaves, he leaves. .he isn't an elite coach..he's a good coach. We will be fine either way

[BMoreX]

I hope that would happen and watch him try and turn us down, while Dayton flips their lid.

I think Steele would be the front runner here.

[GoMuskies]

I think Steele would be the front runner here.

I'm not sure he should be, but in May there might not be a lot of great outside choices available.

[Milhouse]

The only thing that worries me about Archie maybe turning them down is that their roster is a total dumpster fire right now.

They've already lost Chris Walker and Eli Carter and Finney-Smith is likely in a position to do a grad transfer if he wanted to do that.

There just isn't a whole lot of talent on that roster right now.

Eh but not many people walk into a great roster unless they're promoted from within. Archie had to rebuild at Dayton. He's still really young too. Heck it'd be a lot easier to rebuild at UF than at Dayton. It's hard to pinpoint how loyal of a guy he is really.

[Xville]

The only thing that worries me about Archie maybe turning them down is that their roster is a total dumpster fire right now.

They've already lost Chris Walker and Eli Carter and Finney-Smith is likely in a position to do a grad transfer if he wanted to do that.

There just isn't a whole lot of talent on that roster right now.

They have talented guys, they are just really young. They had a top 15 recruiting class last year and will probably end up with a top 10 recruiting class this year. If Donovan does leave, which it looks like he will....as long as they can hold onto the class coming in, they will be just fine. Even if they don't, its not like its Dayton...its Florida...it isn't that tough of a sell to a recruit.

[xubrew]

I'd be shocked if little pitino didn't get the Florida job. He was on Billy d's staff and recruited really well while there. I know he hasn't done great things at minnesota, and I'm not even sure he's a good coach, but the name and the coaching tree are all that seems to matter in a lot of cases

The Florida AD would have to be a complete moron to hire Richard Pitino. I'm not ruling it out as a possibility, but he's not a good choice.



I'm not sure he should be, but in May there might not be a lot of great outside choices available.

I think Jim Les at UC Davis would be a fantastic hire. I don't want Mack to leave, but if he does and we get someone like Jim Les I'll be pretty excited.

That being said, he probably won't even be considered.

Chris Jans is also available! (kidding). Well, he IS available, I guess.

[GoMuskies]

Jim Les who got fired by Bradley? Pass.

[xubrew]

Jim Les who got fired by Bradley? Pass.

Look at it a little more closely. He routinely signed good players and got them committed, but couldn't get them in to school because Bradley has rigorous admissions standards that they weren't going to relax. He still went to a Sweet Sixteen.

And look what he did last year at UC Davis. The guy is really good. But, I'm sure Xavier will agree with you.

[xubrew]

I would also like to say that if Mack leaves, and we even consider interviewing Tim Cluess, I will simply stop what I'm doing and go lay down in traffic for an hour.

I will say this, this board would be the most entertaining board on the entire internet. It may be the most entertaining site on the entire internet.

[GoMuskies]

He still went to a Sweet Sixteen.


In his one NCAA Tournament appearance in 10 years there. Yeah, no.

[paulxu]

I'm still fascinated by the fact that one E8 means you are ready to make a big jump.
There is so much that has to click for that to be right, and you see even Shaka with a FF could never get back to the second weekend with better players.
It would seem to me that Mack's consistency would be worth more than Miller's relatively new exposure in the limelight.
Although I would prefer Mack to remain here.

[Cheesehead]

Jim Les? WTF? I just did a spit-take w/ my Powerade. Thanks, Brew!

[xubrew]

I'm still fascinated by the fact that one E8 means you are ready to make a big jump.
There is so much that has to click for that to be right, and you see even Shaka with a FF could never get back to the second weekend with better players.
It would seem to me that Mack's consistency would be worth more than Miller's relatively new exposure in the limelight.
Although I would prefer Mack to remain here.

I think it's a lot more than just one Elite Eight. With a six man rotation and basically no front court, they played their way into the NCAA Tournament. That's more impressive than an Elite Eight which, quite frankly, lined up rather nicely for them. The Elite Eight is impressive, but it doesn't top the list of why I think he's a good coach.

Same with Shaka Smart. They were actually better (at least during the season) they year before and the year after they made the Final Four. They've probably been better while healthy than the FF team since then. VCU has been good. I'm not saying the NCAA Tournament should be ignored. I'm just saying that everything else needs to be considered too, and VCU was pretty good.

[xubrew]

Jim Les? WTF? I just did a spit-take w/ my Powerade. Thanks, Brew!

Yes. Jim Les.

He took over a program that had never had a winning season in its entire div1 history, and had more seasons where they failed to win ten games than they had seasons where they won ten games, and had won just nine games the year before, and with the same players went 25-7 and finished in first place in the conference. They were one of the biggest surprises in the country last year, and it was one of the biggest turnarounds ever.

That's amazing. It really is. And, when you watch his teams play, they actually are VERY well coached.

[XU 87]

Let's not get too carried away over one season. He previously coached at Bradley and got fired, and his first three years at UC-Davies were really bad, winning a total of 28 games.

[GoMuskies]

Here's the big question: do you prefer Jim Les or Tim Miles?

I might prefer Tim Cluess.

Wait, I looked a bit closer....and I'd DEFINITELY prefer Cluess to either of those two.

[X-band '01]

Tim Cluess was at least smart enough not to take the Fordham job when it was available.

I'll put it another way - if Brew is using a coach's name as a verb, then said coach is liable to be a train wreck.

[GoMuskies]

If Les is a good coach, I guess we'll find out next year. They finally had a good year after three terrible ones, and they averaged 70.7 points per game. They graduate 4 seniors, leaving behind only 24.5 of those points per game. They lose about half of their rebounding as well.

[waggy]

I'd want to look at the guy at Michigan if he had a year as a head coach already.

[LA Muskie]

If Mack leaves, I very much hope we promote Steele. That's not to say there aren't good options out there with head coaching experience, but I tend to favor culture and recruits. Steele's going to be a HC somewhere very soon. Assuming we need one ourselves, I'd just much rather it be for us.

[waggy]

Marquette did hire a guy without HC experience.

[throwbackmuskie]

Macks not leaving.

[BMoreX]

Marquette did hire a guy without HC experience.

So has Xavier.

[xubrew]

Here's the big question: do you prefer Jim Les or Tim Miles?

I might prefer Tim Cluess.

Wait, I looked a bit closer....and I'd DEFINITELY prefer Cluess to either of those two.

You are not a well man.

You do realize that the side effect of hiring Cluess is that Cluess will be the head coach. If not making adjustments under any circumstance is your thing, then Cluess is the man for you.

[XU3232]

I can't imagine Mack turning down the job if Florida does indeed offer it. I just really hope there are several other candidates ahead of Mack. Archie taking it would be awesome.

[xubrew]

Marquette did hire a guy without HC experience.

....and given the way that turned out, Florida will not do the same if they were paying any attention at all.

[GoMuskies]

You are not a well man.

You do realize that the side effect of hiring Cluess is that Cluess will be the head coach. If not making adjustments under any circumstance is your thing, then Cluess is the man for you.

I didn't say I wanted Cluess. Just that I'd prefer Cluess (who has never won less than 20 games) over Miles and Les.

[xubrew]

I didn't say I wanted Cluess. Just that I'd prefer Cluess (who has never won less than 20 games) over Miles and Les.

Which indicates that you need to seek the kind of help that I just don't know how to provide.

Yes, he's never won less than twenty games, but his spectacular losses in unbelievable mind numbing fashion more than make up for it. This board would crash before the end of December. There is no lead that is so big that a Tim Cluess coached team cannot blow.

[GoMuskies]

Again, I don't want Cluess. I just prefer him to guys who aren't that regular in getting leads in the first place.

[X-band '01]

If Mack leaves, I very much hope we promote Steele. That's not to say there aren't good options out there with head coaching experience, but I tend to favor culture and recruits. Steele's going to be a HC somewhere very soon. Assuming we need one ourselves, I'd just much rather it be for us.

I don't think it's by accident that Steele was promoted to associate head coach, either. I've alluded to it before in saying that it's roughly the equivalent of head coach-in-waiting.

[Masterofreality]

I can't imagine Mack turning down the job if Florida does indeed offer it. I just really hope there are several other candidates ahead of Mack. Archie taking it would be awesome.

In what way, other than money, is Florida an elite job without Donovan? What? How?

[bobbiemcgee]

I can tell you that Jeremy Foley will get his man whomever it turns out to be.

[xu82]

And this is just one more reason to hate the off-season....

[_LH]

In what way, other than money, is Florida an elite job without Donovan? What? How?

I agree.

[LA Muskie]

In what way, other than money, is Florida an elite job without Donovan? What? How?
Donovan has been there for 20 years, so I'm not sure anyone really knows what the Florida job would be like without Donovan (although it's not like the program didn't exist before him -- Lon Kruger took them to a Final Four in '94). But Foley has a great reputation, the program now has a hell of a track record (4 Final Fours in the last 15 years; 3 in the last 10), and supposedly the basketball facilities are due for a $60mm makeover.

I don't know what your definition of "elite" is, but if that list has any more than about 5-6 schools on it, then Florida would at least have to be in the discussion.

[GoMuskies]

In what way, other than money, is Florida an elite job without Donovan?

Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

[paulxu]

It's interesting that Mizzu, Alabama and Tennessee make Forbes top 20 along with Kentucky...but Florida does not.

Edit; so according to Forbes, Dayton's program is worth more than Florida's since they were number 21.

[GoMuskies]

Dayton has more fans than Florida. Sorry, Dayton has more fans that care about basketball than Florida.

[LA Muskie]

It's interesting that Mizzu, Alabama and Tennessee make Forbes top 20 along with Kentucky...but Florida does not.

Edit; so according to Forbes, Dayton's program is worth more than Florida's since they were number 21.
I think that tells us a much, much more about the value of the Forbes list than the value of the respective programs.

[xudash]

I live 90 miles from Gainesville, so I have a different perspective about this.

First of all, if you weren't already aware of it, Florida is rebuilding the O'Connell Center. Obviously, they are configuring it to be more revenue generating oriented.

Florida without Donovan? Well, it's the University of Florida. It's the State's flagship university and obviously a major player in the SEC.

[xu82]

And there's no shortage of bandwagon Gator fans.

[XUFan09]

I think that tells us a much, much more about the value of the Forbes list than the value of the respective programs.
Yep. I know Xavier fans love the Forbes ranking, but it doesn't tell as much as people want it to. Athletics budgets are a subset of the university budget, and universities budgets are one of the weirdest things you'll ever see. For example, the athletic department has to pay another department the value of its scholarships. It's like having multiple wallets and shuffling your cash between them. Though I imagine a school couldn't make this list without having a well-run basketball program, so much of it is just university budget manipulation.

One thing that is true about Xavier at least is that they are getting a lot of bang for their buck with coaches in terms of salaries. That helps from a financial perspective.

[LA Muskie]

It's official. Foley is on the clock...

[bobbiemcgee]

If Florida picks Miller and not Mack, it will somehow be Xavier's fault.

[LA Muskie]

I will gladly accept that blame.

[XU3232]

In what way, other than money, is Florida an elite job without Donovan? What? How?

I don't recall saying that it was an elite job to begin with. It's just my opinion that I think he will go if they really do want him. I really hope I'm wrong, but I was shocked last year when it seemed like he was really considering going to Cal.

I also think money is a big factor.

[bobbiemcgee]

Money? The Iceman cometh:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2015/01/19/donation-endows-xaviers-mens-basketball-position/21989653/

[LA Muskie]

Money? The Iceman cometh:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2015/01/19/donation-endows-xaviers-mens-basketball-position/21989653/
Bobbie,

That money isn't nearly enough to ward off a school like Florida. As an endowment, it is structured such that only earnings are used. So it throws off a little extra every year, but not enough to make a huge difference. Also, the funds were primarily earmarked for other program expenses and priorities (including assistant retention); not so much head coach comp.

[paulxu]

I expect MOR to pull a Koch if Florida comes calling.

Pay the Man

[bobbiemcgee]

Bobbie,

That money isn't nearly enough to ward off a school like Florida. As an endowment, it is structured such that only earnings are used. So it throws off a little extra every year, but not enough to make a huge difference. Also, the funds were primarily earmarked for other program expenses and priorities (including assistant retention); not so much head coach comp.


I heard the undisclosed amount is a billion dollars. Should be enough.

[xavierj]

Chris Mack will not coaching in Gainsville. That is all.

[xubrew]

Chris Mack will not coaching in Gainsville. That is all.

Most likely not.

[LA Muskie]

I heard the undisclosed amount is a billion dollars. Should be enough.
Hahahahahahaha. No. It's not.

[LA Muskie]

For what it's worth, Jeff Goodman puts Miller and Mack at the top of his list -- and doesn't say which he thinks is (or should be) in the lead. I think it's probably neck-and-neck. Miller may have more star power (between his name and having exceeded expectations in both his years as a HC), but Mack has consistency on his side.

[xudash]

Yep. I know Xavier fans love the Forbes ranking, but it doesn't tell as much as people want it to. Athletics budgets are a subset of the university budget, and universities budgets are one of the weirdest things you'll ever see. For example, the athletic department has to pay another department the value of its scholarships. It's like having multiple wallets and shuffling your cash between them. Though I imagine a school couldn't make this list without having a well-run basketball program, so much of it is just university budget manipulation.

One thing that is true about Xavier at least is that they are getting a lot of bang for their buck with coaches in terms of salaries. That helps from a financial perspective.

As far as the Forbes ranking goes, I'm not all that wrapped up in whether or not the accounting process for it is technically on point. I value it for its marketing benefit. A few of the names on the list may be suspect, but most of that group is comprised of schools with which we would want to associate for something like this.

Essentially, if all publicity is good, this has to be considered to be very good considering its positive connotations.

[xsteve1]

This is Miller's job to lose I would think. Let's see Gainesville, Fl. or Dayton, OH.

[XU 87]

For what it's worth, Jeff Goodman puts Miller and Mack at the top of his list -- and doesn't say which he thinks is (or should be) in the lead. I think it's probably neck-and-neck. Miller may have more star power (between his name and having exceeded expectations in both his years as a HC), but Mack has consistency on his side.

I think Goodman and Mack are friends. So Mack is likely putting his name out there for this job.

[waggy]

I think Goodman and Mack are friends. So Mack is likely putting his name out there for this job.


No way Mack tells that dork Goodman anything important.

[LA Muskie]

As far as the Forbes ranking goes, I'm not all that wrapped up in whether or not the accounting process for it is technically on point. I value it for its marketing benefit. A few of the names on the list may be suspect, but most of that group is comprised of schools with which we would want to associate for something like this.

Essentially, if all publicity is good, this has to be considered to be very good considering its positive connotations.
I agree that good publicity is good. So...you know...we've got that going for us. But I don't think anyone other than the fans of their Top 20 put any stock in that list, whatsoever. So it's probably of marginal significance, at best.

[LA Muskie]

No way Mack tells that dork Goodman anything important.

I agree that it's highly unlikely Mack would tell Goodman "I'm really interested in that Florida job." That said, these guys build relationships, so I think it's very much in the realm of possibility that Goodman thinks Mack would take the job, based on what he knows about Mack. And frankly he's not the only reporter with connections to Mack who thinks that. I think there are very few people who know Mack who think he would turn the Florida job down if offered. The question is whether he gets offered...

[LA Muskie]

So...I usually avoid Dayton discussions because I just can't get all that worked up about the Flyers. But I'm sort of curious tonight -- are they melting down on their message board? I'm sure some of you have checked it out...

[throwbackmuskie]

Mack is not leaving


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Milhouse]

If he's offered I'd be shocked if he didn't leave. Would be very interesting to see. That said I can't be upset if he left for Florida. For Cal or Wake Forest I would be...but not for Florida.

[BMoreX]

Alllllllll aboooooooard!!!

@SportsCenter: John Calipari has made it known to Pelicans officials that he's interested in the team's head-coaching job. (via http://t.co/ayXbvvBxjy)

[GoMuskies]

Alllllllll aboooooooard!!!

@SportsCenter: John Calipari has made it known to Pelicans officials that he's interested in the team's head-coaching job. (via http://t.co/ayXbvvBxjy)

Charles Koch might get his money back.

[GoMuskies]

Uh, oh. Based on this tweet there will probably be a press conference tomorrow announcing Cal as the Pels' next coach.

John Calipari ‏@UKCoachCalipari
Even though Anthony and Tyreke are in NOLA, I have no interest in the Pelicans or any other job. I have a great job and I'm happy at UK.

[muskiefan82]

Uh, oh. Based on this tweet there will probably be a press conference tomorrow announcing Cal as the Pels' next coach.

John Calipari ‏@UKCoachCalipari
Even though Anthony and Tyreke are in NOLA, I have no interest in the Pelicans or any other job. I have a great job and I'm happy at UK.

To be immediately followed by an announcement about an investigation into recruiting questions and UK basketball.

[xubrew]

Uh, oh. Based on this tweet there will probably be a press conference tomorrow announcing Cal as the Pels' next coach.

John Calipari ‏@UKCoachCalipari
Even though Anthony and Tyreke are in NOLA, I have no interest in the Pelicans or any other job. I have a great job and I'm happy at UK.

Cal starts to talk about how much he likes a place just before he is about to leave an inordinate amount of time.

[paulxu]

Does this mean Archie Miller will be coaching in Lexington?

[GoMuskies]

Does this mean Archie Miller will be coaching in Lexington?

You think he'd leave Dayton to be Gregg Marshall's lead assistant? I suppose it's possible. He'd probably get a raise.

[DC Muskie]

You think he'd leave Dayton to be Gregg Marshall's lead assistant? I suppose it's possible. He'd probably get a raise.

I would totally do that.

[paulxu]

You think he'd leave Dayton to be Gregg Marshall's lead assistant? I suppose it's possible. He'd probably get a raise.

Heh.

[xu82]

You think he'd leave Dayton to be Gregg Marshall's lead assistant? I suppose it's possible. He'd probably get a raise.

And get him ready for an NBA gig at some point. Making less that the players takes some getting used to!

[xavierj]

Does this mean Archie Miller will be coaching in Lexington?

I think Sean is more likely.

[xu82]

I think Sean is more likely.

Trading in the Lexus for a [fill in the blank]?

Hint: It should be something that requires major service with a complete change of tires, plugs, belts, etc. after every drive.

[STL_XUfan]

Trading in the Lexus for a [fill in the blank]?

Hint: It should be something that requires major service with a complete change of tires, plugs, belts, etc. after every drive.


Jaguar?

[xu82]

Jaguar?

That was my first tought. We had neighbors who had three Jags for the two of them. Two for them, one in the shop. Rotate and repeat.

[xudash]

That was my first tought. We had neighbors who had three Jags for the two of them. Two for them, one in the shop. Rotate and repeat.

They used to be really bad from a quality standpoint, though I've always liked their styling.

What I don't quite understand now is their advertising strategy: the whole "villain" thing. The ads are well done and with some great British actors to boot, but why take your product down that road.

[GoMuskies]

Found on another forum...

March 27, 2009 - Calipari, who just completed his ninth season with the Tigers, told a group of reporters at Wilson Air Center today that Memphis is "where I want to coach." "I want to be here," Calipari said today. "This is where I want to coach, and my name will be tied to every job that's open, and our fans I think have gotten used to it."

April 1, 2009 - After over a day of deliberation, John Calipari is headed to Kentucky. The coach sent a text message to ESPN.com's Andy Katz on Tuesday evening saying, "I am accepting the UK job! Go Big Blue, coach Cal."

[paulxu]

The head ball coach made an off the cuff remark about maybe retiring in 3 or 4 years, and the state went nuts.
Major concern about losing recruits who couldn't count on him being there for their entire stint, and in fact it did seem to cause some lost ground on the signees this year with a number changing their commitments.

Contrast with Boehim and Ryan who announce their plans, and make a big push for their assistant to take their place. Maybe that means basketball assistants are more key to recruiting than in football...or something.

[muskiefan82]

The head ball coach made an off the cuff remark about maybe retiring in 3 or 4 years, and the state went nuts.
Major concern about losing recruits who couldn't count on him being there for their entire stint, and in fact it did seem to cause some lost ground on the signees this year with a number changing their commitments.

Contrast with Boehim and Ryan who announce their plans, and make a big push for their assistant to take their place. Maybe that means basketball assistants are more key to recruiting than in football...or something.

It's actually a pretty good plan. If you only recruit one and dones, it does make it easier to call it quits because none of your players were planning on being there more than a year anyway.