XAVIER vs ST JOHN'S

[MADXSTER]

1628 VS 1629


Xavier University Musketeers (16-9) (7-6) RPI 33 SOS 16
W Northern Arizona 93-60
W Long Beach State 97-74
W Stephen F Austin 81-63
W Murray State 89-62
W San Diego Toreros 82-71
L UTEP Miners 77-73
L Long Beach State 73-70
W Alabama 97-84
W IUPUI Jaquars 66-43
W Missouri Tigers 74-58
L Auburn Tigers 89-88 2OT
W Florida Gulf Coast 71-57
W Georgetown Hoyas 70-53
L DePaul Blue Demons 71-68
W Seton Hall Pirates 69-58
L Butler Bulldogs 88-76
L Villanova Wildcats 88-75
W Marquette Golden Eagles 62-58
L Providence Friars 69-66 OT
W DePaul Blue Demons 89-76
W Georgetown Hoyas 66-53
L Seton Hall Pirates 90-82
L Creighton Bluejays 79-72 OT
W Providence Friars 78-69
W Marquette Golden Eagles 64-44

vs St Johns Red Storm (14-8) (4-6) RPI 50 SOS 26
W NJIT 77-58
W LIU Brooklyn 66-53
W Minnesota 70-61
L Gonzaga 66-73
W Niagara 70-57
W Syracuse 57-69
W Fairleigh Dickinson 74-52
W Fordham 74-53
W Saint Mary's 53-47
W Long Beach St. 66-49
W Tulane 82-57
L Seton Hall 78-67
L Butler 69-73
L Villanova 72-90
W Providence 70-83
L DePaul 71-67
W Marquette 60-57
L Duke 68-77
L Creighton 77-74
W Providence 75-66
L Butler 85-62
W Creighton 84-66
??? DePaul


Saturday Feb. 14, 2015 12:30 p.m. ET at Cintas
Television: Fox National
Radio: 550 WKRC

[MADXSTER]

St Johns plays tonight for those interested at 9pm CBS SN

[GoMuskies]

We've had our home clunker. Cannot afford any more of those against shitty teams like St. John's.

[MADXSTER]

St John's still has 2 games against Xavier, 2 against Georgetown and 1 against Villanova.

[BMoreX]

Hope the crowd is rocking.

Would be nice to show Cintas Center packed on FOX's national channel.

[kyxu]

Hope the crowd is rocking.

Would be nice to show Cintas Center packed on FOX's national channel.

We should have the Fox NFL robot sing the national anthem.

[xuwin]

We've had our home clunker. Cannot afford any more of those against shitty teams like St. John's.

A 14-8 Big East team with an RPI=50 and SOS=26 is not a shitty team.

[GoMuskies]

They're 4-7 in their last 11. They're shitty, and losing to them would be a disaster.

[FlagshipX10]

Making my first trip back to the 'tas since the forgettable Gonzaga debacle a few years back. Hope it's rockin' like it was during my time from 06-10.

[XUFan09]

They're 4-7 in their last 11. They're shitty, and losing to them would be a disaster.

They've just been one of the losers in the middle of the pack. Still a solid team (Kenpom #42). That wouldn't make it okay to lose to them at home, though. It just wouldn't be that bad to lose to them on the road later.

The way I see it, Xavier has to go 3-3 down the stretch to have a good shot at making the tournament and 4-2 to feel really good. This game and the game at Creighton are the two that they really can't afford to lose.

[MADXSTER]

This is a very big game that will help separate Xavier from the bottom half of the league.

[Muskie1000]

So the game is at 12:30? I thought I saw Fox Sports 1 say it started at noon.

[bjf123]

So the game is at 12:30? I thought I saw Fox Sports 1 say it started at noon.

I'm guessing that's when their hoops coverage starts for the day.


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[paulxu]

Who is going to man up for the streak so I can watch this one?

[EastCoastXman]

St John's also having some chemistry issues. As per Adam Zagoria "Zags Blog", Obekpa has been taken out of the starting line-up due to his ejections in 2 games this year. The last was the sucker punch/elbow to the Butler player head last week. He now has a sprained ankle and is game time decision. Please keep Jalen away from him on Saturday! Lavin also closed the locker room to the press after last game to keep the muzzle on Rashid Jordan. Lets put them away early on Saturday and eliminate their bubble hopes

[mid major]

Well, I felt pretty good last year after the season and once we beat Marquette in the BE but then Providence came out of no where and won the BE and we then became the 4th team from the BE. I still can't reason to think the 4th best team from the BE is not better than the 5th best team from the A10. We can't take anything for granted. I don't want another "play in" game this year.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Who is going to man up for the streak so I can watch this one?

Paul, I am driving up to Pinetop, Az at that time for some cabin time in the pines. I won't be able to watch but will roll up in Xavier gear.

[paulxu]

Muchas gracias Arizona.

[gladdenguy]

They've just been one of the losers in the middle of the pack. Still a solid team (Kenpom #42). That wouldn't make it okay to lose to them at home, though. It just wouldn't be that bad to lose to them on the road later.

The way I see it, Xavier has to go 3-3 down the stretch to have a good shot at making the tournament and 4-2 to feel really good. This game and the game at Creighton are the two that they really can't afford to lose.

Knowing this team they will lose the home St. Johns game and the road Creighton game and win the Villanova and Butler games.
Then it comes down to getting one out of St. Johns and UC on the road.
4-2 would be amazing.

[XU Cowbell Kid]

So the game is at 12:30? I thought I saw Fox Sports 1 say it started at noon.

Shannon tweeted that the time was changed recently for TV purposes. 12:30 is the correct start time.

[Masterofreality]

Coffee cup filled? Check
Gas tank filled? Check
Snow? Who cares!

Launched to Cintas. See ya there!

[American X]

I eagerly look forward to this basketball match against the St. John's.


http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/uploads/post-126-0-00691000-1384707211.gif

[mistabeecee41]

know why SUU fans are fed up with lavin. harrison, jordan, pointer and obekpa are all legit.

[paulxu]

I wish Dee would not shoot so much...of course our other guys need to move more I guess to get open.
Also...driving into the trees and getting blocked for a turnover continues to be a major problem.
Please change these activities and concentrate on others.
Thank you.

[mistabeecee41]

Piss poor decision making by pretty much everybody the last few possessions.

[DC Muskie]

Where's Jalen? What am I missing?

[paulxu]

Edit: Dee does have 7 assist. Nice. Please stick to that.

Have no idea where Reynolds is.

[DC Muskie]

Good Lord everyone.

[paulxu]

Well crap. Good look for last 3, we miss, they come down and get one.
Double crap.

[sgarcia]

Jalen has 2 fouls.

[paulxu]

Maybe I should just turn off the TV for the second half. Arizona is not covering for me here.
He's probably sipping a latte on some porch in the mountains.

[mistabeecee41]

That was easily the most idiotic run of offensI've basketball in recent memory.

[Xville]

That was not a good half. Defense needs to pick it up.

[xavierj]

That last 16 minutes was just terrible basketball. No fight, no energy and a lot of selfish play. Dee needs to quit shooting and guys need to make free throws. St. John's played with more energy and wanted it more. Xavier was out scored by 17 last 16 minutes.

[X-Fan]

I wish Dee would not shoot so much...of course our other guys need to move more I guess to get open.
Also...driving into the trees and getting blocked for a turnover continues to be a major problem.
Please change these activities and concentrate on others.
Thank you.
He should not shoot a 3 ever again. Ever.

Piss poor decision making by pretty much everybody the last few possessions.
Just horrible. Inexcusable. I'm so effing pissed.

Where's Jalen? What am I missing?
No idea what Mack is thinking with these lineups.

These guys are maddening. Great start by working the ball and taking good shots. Then, lineups that create bad matchups, and one mental mistake after another. Up 10 now down 7 at the half. Just mind boggling.

[DC Muskie]

Jalen has 2 fouls.

Thanks, obviously I missed that.

[XMuskieFTW]

Unreal to not get the last shot of that half. If you want to run that play call timeout with 6 seconds left instead of 13

[X-Fan]

Well crap. Good look for last 3, we miss, they come down and get one.
Double crap.
Good look or not, they should not be shooting with that much time on the clock. Unbelievable.

[paulxu]

When they shoot at a 54% clip, and you shoot at a 41% clip...generally bad things happen.

[X Factor]

Good look or not, they should not be shooting with that much time on the clock. Unbelievable.

Disagree. Trevon had a wide open three. You have to take that shot. How about playing some defense on the other end? Branch just came down and pulled up for a jumper. Where was the defense?

Mack drew up a great play to get a great look and Trevon missed it. Would've cut it to 2. Instead X goes in down 7.

[Xville]

Really tired of the inconsistency with this team...almost every single game it's Jekyll and hyde

[paulxu]

How were we favored by 8 in this game? Maybe we come out and play like the first 5 minutes for the entire second half.

Then again, UNC was favored by 4 at Pitt, and is currently getting gobsmacked by 20.

[Xville]

Really need this one...on paper this is the easiest game we have left.

[sgarcia]

St. John's is too athletic for us. Have to hope they start missing jumpers.

[X Factor]

Remy with a turnover then a bad shot! And bad defense again...down 8.

[xudash]

Really tired of the inconsistency with this team...almost every single game it's Jekyll and hyde

Where is the sense of urgency?

What don't these guys get about what Mack said during the pre-game: this IS an NCAA Tournament game.

[XMuskieFTW]

Need stops now

[mistabeecee41]

Lol at the crowd who thinks myles can play point next year.

[Xville]

Have to keep feeding stain and jalen that's how we win this game. That and play some f'ing defense

[X Factor]

Myles get.your head.out of.your ass!!!!

[X Factor]

Absolutely no defensive awareness

[Xavgrad08]

Myles Davis really struggled trying to run the point. Wish we had a solid backup point guard. We really need to find a way to win this one.

[X Factor]

Why did Mack.take Macura out?

[paulxu]

Don't let the ball hit you in the head.

[xudash]

We'll need every FT we can get our hands on down the stretch.

[XMuskieFTW]

Can't get a stop. Not looking good at all

[Xville]

You almost have to laugh at the way we play defense....to keep from crying

[paulxu]

How did they let that guy score under the basket?

[X Factor]

Bball IQ is low on this team

[sgarcia]

9 assists for Dee but whoever he guards is scoring at will

[X Factor]

This game is over

[xavierj]

Why does Dee continue to take 3's? It's just dumb.

[X Factor]

Dee finally made a three

[Xville]

Alright guys...mini run there now don't let up. Can't afford it

[XMuskieFTW]

Hate that shot by Dee. But can't be too mad when it goes in. Need stops. We can do this.

[XMuskieFTW]

Gah Cintas would have exploded if JP made that putback

[JEHARDI]

This game is over

Loser!

[Xville]

Ugh great d by Reynolds then throws it away...damn!

[X Factor]

Loser!

Reverse psychology

[X Factor]

Remy is.terrible

[Xville]

Alright boys! let's go....crunch time on national tv

[X Factor]

Too athletic

[X Factor]

Bleuitt had a good look and couldn't knock it down

[mistabeecee41]

Another end of half another mental collapse. Why does tre drive 1 on 4? Why does Remy chuck that up?

[Xville]

can we get a stop when we need it most?

[X Factor]

SJU is clutch, X is not

[mistabeecee41]

game over. do we make the tournament with 13 losses?

[Xville]

can we get a stop when we need it most?

Nope.....this is not a tough team. We crap down our leg every close game. This is not a tournament team.

[mohr5150]

I'd like to hear from the Remy lovers after the last two games.

[X Factor]

This team is the opposite of clutch

[DC Muskie]

Another bad loss at home.

Oh well.

[Xavier]

Embarrassing.

[Xville]

That last possession is a microcosm of the season.....extremely weak team that can't finish. Hello nit

[Xavgrad08]

This was a big game between two bubble teams. We have a big opportunity on Wednesday in the Crosstown shootout. Hopefully, our guys are up for the challenge.

[xavierj]

You know when your just an average team with little athleticism, you just are what you are. Coaches had them in the right spots but players have to make plays.

[drudy23]

The extreme lack of athleticism of this team smacks you in the face when you play a team like that. We are SLOOOW

[X Factor]

Defense sucks, mental lapses, zero clutch plays.

[Porkopolis]

We better win the Shootout now. We are really going to need every last bit of resume padding to get in.

[XU 87]

We need some athletes. St. John's was faster and way more athletic.

[X Factor]

Mack got guys great looks and they couldn't make them.

[Xavier]

The Xavier culture is just long gone. Inexcusable couple of losses at home when it mattered most.

[Jesuit4Life]

Missed opportunities.

[LA Muskie]

I'd like to hear from the Remy lovers after the last two games.

Ugh. I was thinking the same thing. There was a time this season I thought Remy needed to be on the court. I don't feel that way lately. These last few games I thought we looked much better with Macura on the court instead.

[X Factor]

Stain had a chance to tie it but got his shit swatted by a 6'6 guy. He needed to dunk it but he cant jump 2 inches.

[drudy23]

We are 16-10...that sucks. Outside looking in if you ask me.

[Xville]

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks this team is going to go into the most hostile environment of the season and win is kidding themselves

[sgarcia]

We need some athletes. St. John's was faster and way more athletic.

I hope you didn't just figure this out.

[LA Muskie]

Tough loss, but there's nothing EMBARRASSING about it. St. John's is obviously a very talented team when they are playing to their potential. Today they did. Gotta say I love Sir'Dominic's game. Fun player to watch.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks this team is going to go into the most hostile environment of the season and win is kidding themselves

UC currently has a whopping 13 points at halftime vs Tulane.

[LA Muskie]

Stain had a chance to tie it but got his shit swatted by a 6'6 guy. He needed to dunk it but he cant jump 2 inches.

Yeah...Stain was our problem today. OK...

[XU3232]

UC is now a must win game. Can't believe they are trailing Tulane 19-13 at halftime.

[drudy23]

Our problem today was the other team is better...and it showed.

[mistabeecee41]

that stretch when it was 70-68 just shows what we've become. Xavier teams of the past don't pass their pants and lose by 8 at the cintas. Tues a freshmen, he'll learn to pull that out. Remy 3 on the other hand...that can't happen.

[LA Muskie]

UC is now a must win game. Can't believe they are trailing Tulane 19-13 at halftime.

In a football game, right?

[XU 87]

The extreme lack of athleticism of this team smacks you in the face when you play a team like that. We are SLOOOW

Their offense was to go one on one against our guys. And they usually won. When our guys went one on one, their shot would get blocked. Stainbrook's defense just isn't very good due to his lack of speed and athleticism. He really offers little off ball defense when a guy gets beat.

I also think they have Stainbrook hedging way too far out on the court. He doesn't have the speed to get back.

[Xville]

UC currently has a whopping 13 points at halftime vs Tulane.

So? Who have we beaten on the road? Mizzou who has won 7 games and Marquette without their best player. Did beat gtown so I gotta respect that but this team drives me crazy

[Wheelhouse]

Frustrating game but we just don't match up well with athletic teams. We have good players, but the athleticism just isn't there. Stainbrook, Bluiett, Farr, Myles, O'Mara, Macura - slow-footed across the board besides Jalen and Remy.

[XU3232]

In a football game, right?

Of course...

[THRILLHOUSE]

that stretch when it was 70-68 just shows what we've become. Xavier teams of the past don't pass their pants and lose by 8 at the cintas. Tues a freshmen, he'll learn to pull that out. Remy 3 on the other hand...that can't happen.

and Trevon needed to come to Jalen and get the ball after the blocked shot there. X was getting momentum there, but completely stopped after that sequence.

[XfansinKy]

Ugh. I was thinking the same thing. There was a time this season I thought Remy needed to be on the court. I don't feel that way lately. These last few games I thought we looked much better with Macura on the court instead.
Remy is from a neighborhood not far from me and I love his intensity but yea he's regressing like most our guys do nowadays.

[Nigel Tufnel]

and Trevon needed to come to Jalen and get the ball after the blocked shot there. X was getting momentum there, but completely stopped after that sequence.

It didn't help matters that Harrison gave Jalen a shove on that play that went uncalled. I know X is slow....but it was shocking how slow they looked against SJU today. Gives me little hope they can take down Villanova at home.

[paulxu]

Guess this is on me. Should have respected my own damn streak and not turned it on.
Oh well. Start another one I guess.

[Wheelhouse]

This team still has opportunities to prove themselves as tournament-worthy down the stretch. I don't love our chances against Villanova (or at SJU for that matter) but Butler and UC are winnable games and would be very good resume builders. With that said, I'll believe it when I see it with these guys.

[bjf123]

This team is not dancing. Too inconsistent. No way we beat Butler or Villanova. Probably won't beat UC, either.


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[X-Fan]

Frustrating loss on many levels. Even with STJ being a tough matchup, there were so many mental mistakes. Guys rushing/forcing things. This team has so little margin for error, they need to really value each possession, and they did not do that today. Gave up too many easy baskets and didn't capitslize on opportunities on offense.

To me this game magnified that X needs to recruit bigger/athletic guards. Nothing against Dee/Myles, but X needs guards that can take guys off the dribble and score/get fouled.

[BandAid]

Guess this is on me. Should have respected my own damn streak and not turned it on.
Oh well. Start another one I guess.

Ditto, sorry guys.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Frustrating loss on many levels. Even with STJ being a tough matchup, there were so many mental mistakes. Guys rushing/forcing things. This team has so little margin for error, they need to really value each possession, and they did not do that today. Gave up too many easy baskets and didn't capitslize on opportunities on offense.

To me this game magnified that X needs to recruit bigger/athletic guards. Nothing against Dee/Myles, but X needs guards that can take guys off the dribble and score/get fouled.

Sumner is a bigger/athletic guard, hopefully he can get over the tendonitis issue next season.

[danaandvictory]

With all the unbelievable progress being made in terms of program infrastructure and finances, four straight years of largely mediocre basketball is not a good look.

[XMuskieFTW]

Frustrating loss, but all of those saying we won't make the tournament are being a bit dramatic. We still have a very good shot with winnable games left. Today was not good, but we did not match up well. I think we go into the shoe Wednesday and beat UC. This teams tournament hopes are nowhere near gone. I think we still make it.

[Xville]

The next 5 games are very scary for this team

[THRILLHOUSE]

Frustrating loss, but all of those saying we won't make the tournament are being a bit dramatic. We still have a very good shot with winnable games left. Today was not good, but we did not match up well. I think we go into the shoe Wednesday and beat UC. This teams tournament hopes are nowhere near gone. I think we still make it.

Yeah, X has opportunities down the stretch to solidify a tourney spot...but it's a tough stretch where X could definitely play itself into the NIT. Probably need to go 3-2 and win a game in the Big East tourney to get in. Also if they do lose 2 of the next 5, one of those losses better not be at Creighton. Or however many losses it is down the stretch, don't lose at Creighton.

[XU 87]

With all the unbelievable progress being made in terms of program infrastructure and finances, four straight years of largely mediocre basketball is not a good look.

This is getting frustrating, although went to the Sweet 16 4 years ago.

[LA Muskie]

Today didn't doom us by any stretch. But it certainly didn't help. With 'Nova and Butler left (even at home) and St. John's and UC on the road, our last 5 is pretty brutal. We're probably going to need to win at least 2 of those -- plus AT Creighton -- to feel remotely comfortable going into the Big East tourney.

[danaandvictory]

This is getting frustrating, although went to the Sweet 16 4 years ago.

Which is proof positive that judging a season solely based on the NCAA Tournament is misleading. That team had Top 10 talent and absolutely self-destructed after the brawl, and for me that's at least partially on the coaching staff.

For example, the year before, when Mack led a skeleton crew to a 15-1 A-10 record, was an immense success even if they did run into Bionic Spider God Jimmy Butler in the first round of the tournament.

[bjf123]

Yeah, X has opportunities down the stretch to solidify a tourney spot...but it's a tough stretch where X could definitely play itself into the NIT. Probably need to go 3-2 and win a game in the Big East tourney to get in. Also if they do lose 2 of the next 5, one of those losses better not be at Creighton. Or however many losses it is down the stretch, don't lose at Creighton.

I think 1-4 is more likely than 3-2. We have the talent to go 4-1, but I just don't see beating UC or St. John on the road or Butler and Nova at home.


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[X-Fan]

With all the unbelievable progress being made in terms of program infrastructure and finances, four straight years of largely mediocre basketball is not a good look.
It is frustrating, and I would be very upset if we were in the A10 through this stretch. Even though we don't want it to be the case, there are growing pains of moving to a better/tougher conference.

This is getting frustrating, although went to the Sweet 16 4 years ago.
Sweet 16 was less than 3 seasons ago.

[XMuskieFTW]

This season may be frustrating, but it is fun. I love playing top 50 rpi teams all the time rather than rolling over Duquesne and la salle on repeat. We have seen some exciting games with a younger team and have put ourselves in a decent spot to make the tourney. As frustrating as things have been I can't be mad. The season is far from over and we have what it takes. Just need to step up and we have the talent to do so.

[X Factor]

This season may be frustrating, but it is fun. I love playing top 50 rpi teams all the time than rolling over Duquesne and la salle on repeat. We have seen some exciting games with a younger team and have put ourselves in a decent spot to make the tourney. As frustrating as things have been I can't be mad. The season is far from over and we have what it takes. Just need to step up and we have the talent to do so.

God bless you for your optimism. I wish I shared it.

[paulxu]

For example, the year before, when Mack led a skeleton crew to a 15-1 A-10 record, was an immense success even if they did run into Bionic Spider God Jimmy Butler in the first round of the tournament.

Isn't that just the point? We wanted better basketball, in a better league, than the A10.

Well, we got it. Better basketball all the damn time. 4 teams in the top 25 RPI, and 2 of us in the top 50.

I love it. I hate the way we seem to implode sometimes, and often we clearly do not have the stronger roster than our opponents.
But I Fing love being in this better league.

Bigger highs, bigger lows, and a future that looks a whole lot brighter than it did just a few short years ago.
Break my heart. I'll keep coming back for more.

[Xavier]

This season may be frustrating, but it is fun. I love playing top 50 rpi teams all the time rather than rolling over Duquesne and la salle on repeat. We have seen some exciting games with a younger team and have put ourselves in a decent spot to make the tourney. As frustrating as things have been I can't be mad. The season is far from over and we have what it takes. Just need to step up and we have the talent to do so.

I don't really think the Big East is great. It has a bunch of average to above average teams with one really good one. I think we will see another flame out come tournament time for the Big East. I don't really think this season has been fun at all.

[bjf123]

I don't really think the Big East is great. It has a bunch of average to above average teams with one really good one. I think we will see another flame out come tournament time for the Big East. I don't really think this season has been fun at all.

This.


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[IM4X]

Tough loss, but there's nothing EMBARRASSING about it. St. John's is obviously a very talented team when they are playing to their potential. Today they did. Gotta say I love Sir'Dominic's game. Fun player to watch.

I agree. Pointer is such a athletic beast and just so fun to watch. And yes, Lavin has been able to recruit some big time talent. It was definitely a very good team we played today. One that will be dangerous should they get into the NCAA tournament.

Though, the St. John's players had better ball movement and better player movement on offense, fewer lazy passes, showed better hustle. X can't expect to win against a more athletic team that also does all those things better too.

[danaandvictory]

Has anyone seriously argued that joining the Big East wasn't a good move?

I certainly would never make that claim.

But part of the issue is that when you join the Big East and announce yourself as a legitimate program, being a cute striver happy with an at-large bid and a scalp from time to time isn't good enough. Moreover, there is a major margin for error built into being in a tougher conference that we never had before. I mean, the most likely outcome for this season for X is a 10 or 11 seed or a return trip to Dayton. We wouldn't accept that as good enough in the A-10, why is it good enough in the Big East?

[Xavier]

Has anyone seriously argued that joining the Big East wasn't a good move?

I certainly would never make that claim.

I don't think anyone has, at least not in this thread.

[XU 87]

Which is proof positive that judging a season solely based on the NCAA Tournament is misleading. That team had Top 10 talent and absolutely self-destructed after the brawl, and for me that's at least partially on the coaching staff.

For example, the year before, when Mack led a skeleton crew to a 15-1 A-10 record, was an immense success even if they did run into Bionic Spider God Jimmy Butler in the first round of the tournament.

While I generally agree with you, making the Sweet 16 makes up for a lot previous sins. But we're on the bubble, and I'm not real confident right now. It seems like we need better and more athletic players.

[spursy]

Remy is not a good decision maker and he has proved it several times. I like what he brings to the team outside of the last 3 minutes of a game.
Jalen made some great plays around the hoop but his shots just weren't falling.
I agree we need more athleticism and that is what cost us the game. Hopefully makinde and Sumner solve that problem next season but I'm getting tired of waiting until the next season with this program. I'm no browns fan.

[Xville]

I'm pretty sick of the argument that because we are in the big east, it's ok we have lost all these games. I don't think this season has been fun at all...to me it's actually been really disappointing and I'm sick of watching the team I've been watching for two years now. Yes the big east is a better conference than what the a10 was but it's not so much better that we should be struggling to win against creighton, utep, lbsu, depaul etc. I'm pretty sick of it. Yet I'll continue to watch because I love xavier basketball even though it hasn't loved me back in about three years

[XfansinKy]

Frustrating loss, but all of those saying we won't make the tournament are being a bit dramatic. We still have a very good shot with winnable games left. Today was not good, but we did not match up well. I think we go into the shoe Wednesday and beat UC. This teams tournament hopes are nowhere near gone. I think we still make it.
Being dramatic? If the tournament selection was today, you think Xavier is a lock? Can't give up but this is a three year trend. A lot or most coaches at programs as successful as Xavier would be lucky to be hired back next year if we miss again. Not to mention the way the "brawl" was handled afterward

[mohr5150]

I know he is a polarizing player, but I will be really happy when Dee Davis doesn't play for us any more. He is a poor defender, he makes poor decisions on a regular basis, and can't shoot. It was comical to watch St. John's give the ball to whoever Dee was guarding and let him blow right past him every time. I know there isn't anyone else but him on the roster, but it is very disappointing watching a guy who has been a major minutes guy for three years play as poorly as he does.

[Xville]

I know he is a polarizing player, but I will be really happy when Dee Davis doesn't play for us any more. He is a poor defender, he makes poor decisions on a regular basis, and can't shoot. It was comical to watch St. John's give the ball to whoever Dee was guarding and let him blow right past him every time. I know there isn't anyone else but him on the roster, but it is very disappointing watching a guy who has been a major minutes guy for three years play as poorly as he does.
Agreed...problem though is who the hell is going to be our point guard next year? Randolph sucks, Austin is basically a dee davis clone without the good parts and Sumner is a complete unknown. You have to have a good PG to be a good team in college basketball...period.

[XMuskieFTW]

Being dramatic? If the tournament selection was today, you think Xavier is a lock? Can't give up but this is a three year trend. A lot or most coaches at programs as successful as Xavier would be lucky to be hired back next year if we miss again. Not to mention the way the "brawl" was handled afterward

If the selection was today we are a lock.

[GoMuskies]

Just finished watching. Blech. Guess it's not a terrible loss, but we couldn't afford it after the Creighton game. Frankly, this is just a game that good teams win. We've shown some flashes, but at this point we are what we are: not particularly good.

[xukeith]

The money for the XU program is better but at a cost comes seasons where X will barely get in or not get in and then get in with a 3 seed every 6 years. Follow the $$

[xukeith]

wish it was today!
X has @UC, @SJU, and@CU.
Home againgst Villanova, and Butler.
Gulp!

[GoMuskies]

The money for the XU program is better but at a cost comes seasons where X will barely get in or not get in and then get in with a 3 seed every 6 years. Follow the $$

I'm pretty confident if we were in the A-10, this team would be in about the same spot with respect to the Bubble. And X got 3, 4, 6 and 7 seeds out of the A-10. I don't think the league has anything to do with this team's troubles even though the record would be a touch prettier in the A-10.

[XMuskieFTW]

The money for the XU program is better but at a cost comes seasons where X will barely get in or not get in and then get in with a 3 seed every 6 years. Follow the $$

how can you even make this statement when we've been making more money for about 18 months. That has nothing to do with it. we are having a few down years because we are having a few down years. That is it. Sure we might be 10-4 in the a-10 right now but we'd just be a team with a better record in the same spot on the bubble.

[LadyMuskie]

This team is so damn frustrating.

The only thing consistent about this team, is that it is wildly inconsistent. From one game to the next, it's anyone's guess who will be the leading scorer, who will be the "spark", who will look like it's his first time on the basketball court. Sometimes, you don't even have to wait until the next game. If you stick around you can watch any number of players implode or catch fire all within the 40 minutes allotted for play. I don't how you fix that because I can't even begin to think what the causation could be. And beyond that, I'm tired of trying to figure it out and I'm just an armchair coach. I can't imagine how the coaches feel.

I'm tired of all of the excuses every time we lose. I'm tired of trying to analyze why we lose, or why a certain player lost the ability to play D1 ball for a particular game. Being a fan of this team is exhausting and it's not fun. I feel for the team because I sincerely doubt it's fun for them, and they have to be there.

[XfansinKy]

This team is so damn frustrating.

The only thing consistent about this team, is that it is wildly inconsistent. From one game to the next, it's anyone's guess who will be the leading scorer, who will be the "spark", who will look like it's his first time on the basketball court. Sometimes, you don't even have to wait until the next game. If you stick around you can watch any number of players implode or catch fire all within the 40 minutes allotted for play. I don't how you fix that because I can't even begin to think what the causation could be. And beyond that, I'm tired of trying to figure it out and I'm just an armchair coach. I can't imagine how the coaches feel.

I'm tired of all of the excuses every time we lose. I'm tired of trying to analyze why we lose, or why a certain player lost the ability to play D1 ball for a particular game. Being a fan of this team is exhausting and it's not fun. I feel for the team because I sincerely doubt it's fun for them, and they have to be there.
Perfectly put.

[IM4X]

These guys are maddening. Great start by working the ball and taking good shots. Then, lineups that create bad matchups, and one mental mistake after another. Up 10 now down 7 at the half. Just mind boggling.

Yeah, this was a bit frustrating. I don't think Mack coached his worst game, but I do wish he would stick with a lineup that is dominating an opponent on the court until the opponent stops that unit. Too often Mack will switch to another lineup while the current line up is still looking fresh and playing well. When he does, it often results in a big run for the other team and a bit of a loss in confidence for our team.

That's not to say I am pointing the finger at Mack for this loss. St. John's does have very talented and athletic players who hustled and did just about everything a little better than our players.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Doesn't Mack have a backup for himself? He should put in his backup and see if he(backup)coaches better. I love the Big East because we still have a chance to dance with possibly 12 losses. X will be fine they are just going through a rough period right now. We just arnt use to losing or playing good teams every game. If you want to beat up on Fordham and St Bonnie's there is a team up North you can root for. X will dominate again very very soon because that is what X does.

[gladdenguy]

1-8 in games decided by less than 8 points.
Chris Mack. You suck.

[bjf123]

wish it was today!
X has @UC, @SJU, and@CU.
Home againgst Villanova, and Butler.
Gulp!

Loss, loss, win, loss, loss. NIT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chico]

Flipping around the stations I see that ABC is currently televising "Unforgettable Moments of Love on Ice." If I had my choice of watching this versus watching the game again, I'm probably choosing "Unforgettable Moments of Love on Ice."

[LA Muskie]

I know he is a polarizing player, but I will be really happy when Dee Davis doesn't play for us any more. He is a poor defender, he makes poor decisions on a regular basis, and can't shoot. It was comical to watch St. John's give the ball to whoever Dee was guarding and let him blow right past him every time. I know there isn't anyone else but him on the roster, but it is very disappointing watching a guy who has been a major minutes guy for three years play as poorly as he does.

He's only polarizing to the extent that people don't know what they are talking about. 9 assists and 2 turnovers. He may not be DSR but he's an effective PG -- and we're going to miss him sorely next year.

[LA Muskie]

The money for the XU program is better but at a cost comes seasons where X will barely get in or not get in and then get in with a 3 seed every 6 years. Follow the $$

We would be a bubble team out of the A10 this year. At best. If anything, the Big East gives us a greater margin for error.

[LA Muskie]

I'm pretty confident if we were in the A-10, this team would be in about the same spot with respect to the Bubble. And X got 3, 4, 6 and 7 seeds out of the A-10. I don't think the league has anything to do with this team's troubles even though the record would be a touch prettier in the A-10.

Just saw this. I agree. Actually I think we'd be in a worse spot.

[X Factor]

1-8 in games decided by less than 8 points.
Chris Mack. You suck.

It's a lot easier when you have a Tu Holloway making numerous clutch shots throughout his career, or a guy like Jordan Crawford.

Mack just doesn't have that type of guy this year. There isn't one "clutch" guy on this team who can put the team on his back and make plays, either by getting into the lane and getting fouled, or knocking down a big jumper.

Mack put the guys in great spots today, they just didn't deliver.

[Xville]

He's only polarizing to the extent that people don't know what they are talking about. 9 assists and 2 turnovers. He may not be DSR but he's an effective PG -- and we're going to miss him sorely next year.

Problem with him is the problem that the entire team has. He is inconsistent...yes you can look at the assist/to ratio and think he had a pretty damn good game but honestly he had a pretty inconsistebt one. 7 of those assists came in the first 10 minutes of the game...the 30 minutes after that he had 2. We will miss him next year but that's because the cupboard is completely bare not because the guy is a first team all american. He's fine which is what this team is.

[markchal]

I don't know why I had such high expectations for him, but I think Remy has been a disappointment this season. Especially his play in crunch time. I'd rather see Macura when the game is close.

[spursy]

I don't know why I had such high expectations for him, but I think Remy has been a disappointment this season. Especially his play in crunch time. I'd rather see Macura when the game is close.
I agree. I had very high expectations for him as well but he has been very average. I think he deserves his starting spot but he lacks anything special.

[gladdenguy]

Jalen missed so many damn bunnies today it was disgusting. And I love Jalen.
Dee is normal. Just a backup point guard. Xavier will not miss him a bit. If they do this program is worse off than most of the Pollyannas think it is.
NIT still more of a realization. Thanks Chris Mack.

[xsteve1]

Just an average team. X got a break on their 2 game winning streak with Ed Cooley getting sick and Carlino getting a concussion. That 2 game winning streak was the first since beating Gulf Coast and Georgetown back to back in December. Just no consistency at all.
I can't see how X goes to the tourney at 8-10 in the BE because that's about all anybody at this point can expect.

[spursy]

Jalen missed so many damn bunnies today it was disgusting. And I love Jalen.
Dee is normal. Just a backup point guard. Xavier will not miss him a bit. If they do this program is worse off than most of the Pollyannas think it is.
NIT still more of a realization. Thanks Chris Mack.
He missed his bunnies but made some great moves to get those shots. Moves Stainbrook can't come close to. Your sentiments on dee are pretty much my sentiments on Stainbrook. I love both those seniors but think we need better players in their positions.

[Xville]

He missed his bunnies but made some great moves to get those shots. Moves Stainbrook can't come close to. Your sentiments on dee are pretty much my sentiments on Stainbrook. I love both those seniors but think we need better players in their positions.
This is why I think this team is just average....the upper class men just aren't that talented and by talented I mean major division 1 starting lineup talent. They have hit their ceilings....the real talent on this team are the freshman and the sophomores including the second year players in myles and Jalen. I just hope that we can find a legitimate point guard to start next year...otherwise we are going to again be an average team next year.

[bleedXblue]

We will have some options either 5th year transfer or JUCO. Sounds like someone might be leaving soon.

[Xville]

We will have some options either 5th year transfer or JUCO. Sounds like someone might be leaving soon.

Did u hear something or just a guess? I don't know anything but I can't see randolph staying...he's far from home, getting zero pt, and can't have much confidence right now

[markchal]

Really a shame, I liked what we saw from him in limited minutes. No idea why he went to the dog house.

[XfansinKy]

Really a shame, I liked what we saw from him in limited minutes. No idea why he went to the dog house.
Yea when he started as a freshman he looked great. I remember he missed a contested layup, went back up over the defender and got the stick back with and one. He walked away pounding his chest. I thought considering he was a 4 star, McDs All-American alternate stud recruit, that we had us one there. He's regressed too. Its baffling.

[mohr5150]

You can site assists all you want, but he is the worst starting guard we've had since Mo. His defense is horrible, and he couldn't hit water from a boat. He may try hard, but he's not good.

[bleedXblue]

Th athleticism gap today was obvious. Really sad we couldn't figure out the right zone to play b/c we simply couldn't keep up with them 1 on 1.

[X Factor]

You can site assists all you want, but he is the worst starting guard we've had since Mo. His defense is horrible, and he couldn't hit water from a boat. He may try hard, but he's not good.

His shooting is what is killing his game. He's shooting 18% from three in 14 conference games, as a senior. His distributing of the ball has been really good, and his defense is above average. His free throw percentage is down too.

Sucks to have a senior point guard turn into London Warren from three.

[muskieindent]

This team has talent but our go to guy/leader is playing in the developmental leagur for Oklahoma City.If Semaj had stayed we would have 3 or 4 more wins.No body has filled his shoes. Another year where I'll just be happy to make the tourney.

[mohr5150]

If Semaj was here, we might have three losses.

[CinciX12]

Today was tremendously disappointing.

[LA Muskie]

Complaining about Dee's shooting is entirely fair. Complaining that he's not an all-league PG is not. Some of you have very warped expectations.

Would we be better with Semaj? Sure. But almost every major program has to deal with departures. And the better the program, the more likely those departures will come early. Next man up. Period.

[mohr5150]

Complaining about Dee's shooting is entirely fair. Complaining that he's not an all-league PG is not. Some of you have very warped expectations.

Would we be better with Semaj? Sure. But almost every major program has to deal with departures. And the better the program, the more likely those departures will come early. Next man up. Period.

Are you kidding me? All-league? I can think of at least five point guards better than him in this league, just off the top of my head. In fact, it is harder for me to think of a point guard worse than him.

[sgarcia]

Are you kidding me? All-league? I can think of at least five point guards better than him in this league, just off the top of my head. In fact, it is harder for me to think of a point guard worse than him.

I think LA means that we shouldn't expect Dee to be all league but I'm drunk and could be wrong.

[LA Muskie]

I think LA means that we shouldn't expect Dee to be all league but I'm drunk and could be wrong.

You are correct even in your stupor.

[xu82]

I think LA means that we shouldn't expect Dee to be all league but I'm drunk and could be wrong.

I appreciate the self-awareness! Dee is very good at what he's good at. He can dsitribute extremely well, generally limits TO's considering the amount of time with the ball and he's pretty good with on ball defense. He also has his... um.. short comings. His size limits his defense in some cases, and I cringe every time he shoots. His decision making, while not perfect, is much improved lately. I think he's under-appreciated by many. Next years PG's may have higher ceilings, but also lower floors. Time will tell, so I'm just hoping for the best. It's all we can do. For now, I'm still hoping for a run.

[IM4X]

Are you kidding me? All-league? I can think of at least five point guards better than him in this league, just off the top of my head. In fact, it is harder for me to think of a point guard worse than him.

Most (if not all) of us have been frustrated at one time or another because of the poor effort or decision making or shooting by various X players this year, I can not agree with you about Dee playing poorly for three years and your thoughts above though. You've been a bit harsh with your last few post about Dee. I get being frustrated with some players over the past 10 plus games, but calling Dee out like he is the main reason for the team's problems isn't exactly fair.

Like just about every other X player this year, Dee has made some poor decisions from time to time, but no one hustle more than him, and without him, we are a much less productive team. There is no denying that his outside shooting is off, but then he does give 100% on the court and that's more than I can say about some other players.

[IM4X]

If Semaj was here, we might have three losses.

Maybe... And maybe if each player was playing up to his potential and the coaches were coaching better in some games, we might only have 3 losses too.

[mohr5150]

I'm not questioning the kid's heart, his love of the game, his hustle, his desire, or any of those qualities. As far as I can tell, he seems like a stand-up guy. But when you compare him to the rest of the point guards in this league, he doesn't stack up talent wise or performance wise. College basketball is so guard-dominant, and ours aren't very good. That's truly why we have struggled this year. Dee is a good distributer of the ball, but does most other things a point guard is supposed to do below what we need to be successful. His defense, as well as the rest of our guards and wings, has been sub par all year. Our three point defense is one of the worst in the country. Today, the three guards for St. John's had their way with whoever was guarding them, but specifically took Dee to the basket off the dribble over and over again and shot over him whenever they wanted. It was sad to watch.

[LA Muskie]

He may not be all-Big East but he's 2nd in the conference in assists per game and A/TO ratio and 8th in steals per game. Calling that "not very good" is pretty dismissive especially for someone who has done just about everything his coach has asked of him.

Not sure what you mean when you say he "doesn't stack up" since he's at absolute bottom a top half PG in the conference.

[xsteve1]

Every loss it's the same old story, blame Dee. The kid may not be Tu Holloway but he's better than a lot of the guys X has had in the program. I mean 9 assists and 2 turnovers today. Blame him all you want for the missed shots but who else wanted to take them?
It's pretty pathetic the crap that kid gets.

[OH.X.MI]

My two cents after reading this board today and talking with a lot of pretty upset people... everyone is throwing around a lot of blame. Maybe it's Dee, maybe it's Mack, maybe it's Stainbrook. There are a lot of maybes, but I think there's one truth. This team, coaching staff and players, just isn't very good. I won't say it's a "failure," but as a collective unit the team just is not there. It happens. It sucks it's happened to us three years in a row, but that's how the dice roll sometimes. Still room to improve. Big games coming up. I hope for the best.

We are still Xavier University and I'm always goddamn proud to be a Musketeer.

[spursy]

Every loss it's the same old story, blame Dee. The kid may not be Tu Holloway but he's better than a lot of the guys X has had in the program. I mean 9 assists and 2 turnovers today. Blame him all you want for the missed shots but who else wanted to take them?
It's pretty pathetic the crap that kid gets.
100% agreed. There are several reasons why we lost today. Dee is not the main reason though. We needed more outside shooting today, and dee could've helped with that, but ultimately sju's athleticism just killed us on the inside.

[X Factor]

My two cents after reading this board today and talking with a lot of pretty upset people... everyone is throwing around a lot of blame. Maybe it's Dee, maybe it's Mack, maybe it's Stainbrook. There are a lot of maybes, but I think there's one truth. This team, coaching staff and players, just isn't very good. I won't say it's a "failure," but as a collective unit the team just is not there. It happens. It sucks it's happened to us three years in a row, but that's how the dice roll sometimes. Still room to improve. Big games coming up. I hope for the best.

We are still Xavier University and I'm always goddamn proud to be a Musketeer.

I agree and disagree. I wouldn't say they just aren't very good. I think they are a pretty good team. They just don't have the mental toughness, clutch shot makers, defensive ability to win the close games.

Xavier is 1-8 in games decided by 8 points or less. That tells me Xavier is very close to having a lot better record than they have now. There is no floor leader to kicks guys in the ass on the court and make them play at a higher level. No one can make the clutch shot when it's needed, or get the big defensive stop when it's needed like in past years.

Xavier is not far off, but they aren't all of a sudden going to be that team we want them to be this year. Maybe next year Trevon will turn into that guy who wills X to big wins. Maybe next year Remy turns into the player we expected him to be, or Sumner and London give us that boost of length and athleticism we are sorely missing this year.

We know one thing for sure; summer overseas trips are nice for the players, but they don't do a damn thing in preparing a team for the real season.

Let's just enjoy the rest of this year and see how the chips fall.

[Muskeagle]

Just finished watching the game. I was able to make it all day without finding out the result, and obviously it was a disappointing game. It felt like a game we had to have to stay on the plus side of the NCAA debate. It's interesting how when we sweep G-Town and get the second of those wins with a big win on the road.....it turns out that we won because we match up well with Georgetown. But when we lose this one, it's because "Mack sucks. Dee Sucks. Matt is nice complimentary player, but nothing special." A few have argued we don't match up well, but many just want to throw blame around. Can't have it both ways....the wins aren't because of us or our coach, but the losses are because we SUCK!

NONE of us are happy with where the season has gone and we would all LIKE to be in a better spot with more wins and better performance...especially in close games. But holy crap, with friends like this, who needs enemies? I can't believe some of you call yourselves fans of this team. Writing crap like "_________ (fill in with 20 year old kid, player of your choice) sucks."....among many other insulting gems shows little class. I'm frustrated by the loss, but I'm probably more frustrated by the attitude of lot of the posters on here. I know, I know....I should just stay away...some of you are thinking....and I probably will at this point. There are valid critiques to be made of this team, but the non-stop insults and need to blame someone for every loss should be below us.

I'm hopeful, X can put together a run. I hope they close the season out well. I'm not confident, but I remain hopeful. I'm also done reading the board for a bit. The negativity here on the board is more unpleasant to me than watching one of X's clunker games.

[Titanxman04]

Every loss it's the same old story, blame Dee. The kid may not be Tu Holloway but he's better than a lot of the guys X has had in the program. I mean 9 assists and 2 turnovers today. Blame him all you want for the missed shots but who else wanted to take them?
It's pretty pathetic the crap that kid gets.

This. Reps for you, sir.

[bleedXblue]

St. John's is more athletic than X at almost every position. Really surprised we didn't try more variations of a zone yesterday. Might not have mattered with how well they were shooting. They are simply a very bad matchup for this team. Looking at the next 5 games, i would be happy with any result that would net us 3 more wins. Then we would have to win a first round game in the tourney to get in .....IMHO.

[American X]

Multiple comments on how Xavier has matchup trouble with athletic teams. This is Division I basketball. That is like saying Xavier has trouble with basketball teams.

[LadyMuskie]

Multiple comments on how Xavier has matchup trouble with athletic teams. This is Division I basketball. That is like saying Xavier has trouble with basketball teams.

But . . . wait a minute . . . Xavier does have trouble with basketball teams. It used to be just basketball teams not playing at Cintas, but now we've improved, and it's just basketball teams in general.

[LadyMuskie]

Every loss it's the same old story, blame Dee. The kid may not be Tu Holloway but he's better than a lot of the guys X has had in the program. I mean 9 assists and 2 turnovers today. Blame him all you want for the missed shots but who else wanted to take them?
It's pretty pathetic the crap that kid gets.

This happens every year to at least one player. Dante Jackson and Kenny Frease come to mind. Ignoring it is the best route to go.

Dee may not be the world's greatest PG, but he's one of the nicest guys and best representatives for X the team has.

[Masterofreality]

Every loss it's the same old story, blame Dee. The kid may not be Tu Holloway but he's better than a lot of the guys X has had in the program. I mean 9 assists and 2 turnovers today. Blame him all you want for the missed shots but who else wanted to take them?
It's pretty pathetic the crap that kid gets.

For all the Dee haters.

This game was lost between the 16:30 and 13:00 marks of the 2nd half. Dee picks up his 3rd foul and, as these coaches do all the time, automatically pull him. Larry Austin comes in and makes one play to get the game tied at 42, then crap commences. 3 turnovers, 2 bad shots and defensive shift assignments putting Myles Davis on Phil Greene and Greene went off for 11 points in 3 minutes. Xavier then down 8 and couldn't climb the mountain. Dee comes back in but the damage was done.

A) Not necessarily a bad coaching move automatically pulling Dee with 3 fouls, but it highlights the lack of backup. Randolph, however, was apparently unavailable because he got "banged up" in practice Friday. Blame someone for the lack of development of a backup PG, or just be pissed that Edmond Sumner couldn't get healthy but blaming Dee Davis for this loss is abjectly stupid.

B) I don't know who to blame, but how someone was not in Phil Greene's jock on the perimeter at all times I don't know. Greene played 39 minutes. Either the coaches didn't emphasize it enough or somebody (Myles, Trevon) didn't listen but Greene killed us with 15 points and 11 in 3 minutes with 3 killer 3's- all when Dee Davis was out of the game. That's what Greene does. he doesn't drive much and has taken the second most 3's on the team.

The lack of attention to detail on this team is maddening....and lack of attention to detail in this league gets you beat.

[X-Fan]

For all the Dee haters.

This game was lost between the 16:30 and 13:00 marks of the 2nd half. Dee picks up his 3rd foul and, as these coaches do all the time, automatically pull him. Larry Austin comes in and makes one play to get the game tied at 42, then crap commences. 3 turnovers, 2 bad shots and defensive shift assignments putting Myles Davis on Phil Greene and Greene went off for 11 points in 3 minutes. Xavier then down 8 and couldn't climb the mountain. Dee comes back in but the damage was done.

A) Not necessarily a bad coaching move automatically pulling Dee with 3 fouls, but it highlights the lack of backup. Randolph, however, was apparently unavailable because he got "banged up" in practice Friday. Blame someone for the lack of development of a backup PG, or just be pissed that Edmond Sumner couldn't get healthy but blaming Dee Davis for this loss is abjectly stupid.

B) I don't know who to blame, but how someone was not in Phil Greene's jock on the perimeter at all times I don't know. Greene played 39 minutes. Either the coaches didn't emphasize it enough or somebody (Myles, Trevon) didn't listen but Greene killed us with 15 points and 11 in 3 minutes with 3 killer 3's- all when Dee Davis was out of the game. That's what Greene does. he doesn't drive much and has taken the second most 3's on the team.

The lack of attention to detail on this team is maddening....and lack of attention to detail in this league gets you beat.
All of this. Mack went to it later, but I was hoping he'd start to use Myles as the backup PG. The ball needs to be in his hands as much as possible.

The defensive lapses against Green were mind boggling. Contrast that with STJ putting Harrison on JP, and barely letting him breath.

Can we just forget that game happened and move on? STJ was making shots yesterday. Many times the D was good. Gotta bring it for Wednesday.

[mohr5150]

This happens every year to at least one player. Dante Jackson and Kenny Frease come to mind. Ignoring it is the best route to go.

Dee may not be the world's greatest PG, but he's one of the nicest guys and best representatives for X the team has.

And this is where I think some people's judgement is clouded. I believe Dee is a really good kid, hustles like crazy on the court, and is a great representative for the school. He just isn't a very good point guard in comparison to the other point guards in this league. Could it be that his weaknesses are magnified because the other players around him have weaknesses that he tries to overcompensate for? I don't know. I know that there are so many times in every game where he is out of position on defense and his man almost always scores, he gets beat off the dribble often, and his shooting is not only horrific, but his shot selection almost always leads to easy points the other way. The point guard, many times, is like the quarterback on a football team. They get the blame when a team loses and get the credit when they win, deservedly or not. Dee has been a three year contributer to this team, and with the number of games and minutes he's played should show much better decision-making skills than he does. Are there other guys on this team screwing up? Yep. But Dee is the senior and the point guard. It is on him to show poise and to lead because that is what the position expects. Is it fair to be critical of such a nice guy who represents the school so well? That may be where people have issues. I don't hate the kid, I just don't think the three years where he has been the point guard have been very successful, and as the point guard leader of the team, a chunk of the blame falls on him. It's the nature of the position because of the importance of the position.

[LA Muskie]

He just isn't a very good point guard in comparison to the other point guards in this league.

You keep saying this. I'd really like to see how you rank the Big East point guards.

[Masterofreality]

Can we just forget that game happened and move on? STJ was making shots yesterday. Many times the D was good. Gotta bring it for Wednesday.

St. John's yesterday vs St. John's season numbers= 52% vs 45% on all FG's. 35% vs 35% on 3's and 82% vs 70% on Free Throws. The big difference was that they also had 11 steals that turned into quick layup points. Hard to defend on those.

[Xville]

You keep saying this. I'd really like to see how you rank the Big East point guards.

Just off the top of my head I'll take Dunn, any of the St. John's pgs, DSr, Gibbs, arcidiacano. At best he is 5th or 6th in the league which is average which I think he is. You could argue he is better than arcidiacano but the others I don't think anyone could argue...

[X-Fan]

St. John's yesterday vs St. John's season numbers= 52% vs 45% on all FG's. 35% vs 35% on 3's and 82% vs 70% on Free Throws. The big difference was that they also had 11 steals that turned into quick layup points. Hard to defend on those.

Man, thought they shot way better from 3. Seemed like they were hitting a big 3 every few minutes in the game. The easy points from steals definitely didn't help. Ugh.

[JEHARDI]

J
Just finished watching the game. I was able to make it all day without finding out the result, and obviously it was a disappointing game. It felt like a game we had to have to stay on the plus side of the NCAA debate. It's interesting how when we sweep G-Town and get the second of those wins with a big win on the road.....it turns out that we won because we match up well with Georgetown. But when we lose this one, it's because "Mack sucks. Dee Sucks. Matt is nice complimentary player, but nothing special." A few have argued we don't match up well, but many just want to throw blame around. Can't have it both ways....the wins aren't because of us or our coach, but the losses are because we SUCK!

NONE of us are happy with where the season has gone and we would all LIKE to be in a better spot with more wins and better performance...especially in close games. But holy crap, with friends like this, who needs enemies? I can't believe some of you call yourselves fans of this team. Writing crap like "_________ (fill in with 20 year old kid, player of your choice) sucks."....among many other insulting gems shows little class. I'm frustrated by the loss, but I'm probably more frustrated by the attitude of lot of the posters on here. I know, I know....I should just stay away...some of you are thinking....and I probably will at this point. There are valid critiques to be made of this team, but the non-stop insults and need to blame someone for every loss should be below us.

I'm hopeful, X can put together a run. I hope they close the season out well. I'm not confident, but I remain hopeful. I'm also done reading the board for a bit. The negativity here on the board is more unpleasant to me than watching one of X's clunker games.

Great post, unfortunate that a a number of ignorant, mean spirited folks run off rational fans of the team, too bad we cannot replace them or critique their sad, pathetic lives.

[Wheelhouse]

Just off the top of my head I'll take Dunn, any of the St. John's pgs, DSr, Gibbs, arcidiacano. At best he is 5th or 6th in the league which is average which I think he is. You could argue he is better than arcidiacano but the others I don't think anyone could argue...

Don't forget Carlino and Garrett, Jr.

[XUFan09]

Don't forget Carlino and Garrett, Jr.

Carlino is not Marquette's point guard. He's the off-guard who has the ball in his hands a lot, while Derrick Wilson is their starting point guard. Same with D'Angelo Harrison of St. John's; Rysheed Jordan is the point guard for that team (Xville mentioned "any of the St. John's pgs"). Calling these guys point guards is like calling Jordan Crawford a point guard in 2010. If we're playing that loose with who is a point guard and not just a guard/wing, we might as well call Myles Davis a point guard too. He handles the ball a lot and makes plays for himself and others, and he backs up Dee sometimes. Apparently that's all a guy needs to do to meet the classification.

[Wheelhouse]

Carlino is not Marquette's point guard. He's the off-guard who has the ball in his hands a lot, while Derrick Wilson is their starting point guard. Same with D'Angelo Harrison of St. John's; Rysheed Jordan is the point guard for that team (Xville mentioned "any of the St. John's pgs"). Calling these guys point guards is like calling Jordan Crawford a point guard in 2010. If we're playing that loose with who is a point guard and not just a guard/wing, we might as well call Myles Davis a point guard too. He handles the ball a lot and makes plays for himself and others, and he backs up Dee sometimes. Apparently that's all a guy needs to do to meet the classification.

Fair point. I forgot about Wilson from Maquette, although Carlino does handle the ball a lot. I do think it's fair to consider Harrison a scoring point guard. He's pretty much running the SJ offense in the half court.

[XUFan09]

Fair point. I forgot about Wilson from Maquette, although Carlino does handle the ball a lot. I do think it's fair to consider Harrison a scoring point guard. He's pretty much running the SJ offense in the half court.

He's just a high-usage rate shooting guard, like Jordan Crawford was, though Crawford actually had a much higher assist rate.

[Wheelhouse]

He's just a high-usage rate shooting guard, like Jordan Crawford was, though Crawford actually had a much higher assist rate.

Well, I have to admit I don't know what a "high-usage rate shooting guard" is. Either way, it's obvious that Dee Davis is quite a polarizing player, probably moreso than any Xavier player in recent memory (maybe Kenny Frease is close). The fact is, at this point no one is going to change either side's mind regarding Dee. The haters are gonna hate and the apologists are probably going to talk assist to turnover ratio until they're blue in the face. I like Dee. He plays hard, runs the offense well when playing within himself and he's basically the only option we have at point guard this year because Randolph is obviously in the doghouse. But Dee is limited and that's not going to change. Even with that said, I don't believe he's the main reason for this team's struggles. There's plenty of blame to go around. Let's just hope they can come together and get a few solid wins down the stretch and get in the dance.

[paulxu]

though Crawford actually had a much higher assist rate.

Then that other guy must have zero assists.

I do love me some JC though. What a stroke.

[mohr5150]

Look, I've been a very strong supporter of this team for the past 25 years and will continue to be one for the foreseeable future. I don't normally call out players unless they are a huge issue for the team. I also have been a supporter of Mack even though so many on this board and elsewhere want to run him out of town on the next train. But in the case of Dee Davis, he is the weak link on this team that is causing it to struggle mightily on both ends of the court. Again, he seems to be an outstanding young man who I appreciate greatly for being a great representative for the university, but his offensive stats don't lie. I ran the stats for all starting PG's (I used both Gibbs and Whitehead for Seton Hall because I didn't know who everyone would consider the PG) in the Big East, and these are the results:

FG% 3P% FT% Ast TO STL PTS
Archidiacono 37.6 35 80.7 3.7 1.5 1.2 10
Barlow 42.4 39.4 86.4 2.8 1.8 2.3 9.2
Dunn 48.6 33.9 66.2 7.6 4.2 2.8 15.4
Smith-Rivera 41.5 38.8 86.8 3.3 1.5 1.8 15.5
Davis 38.3 26.4 71 6.3 2.4 1.5 8.5
Jordan 43.5 35.9 65 2.9 3.1 1.8 13.9
Garrett Jr. 41.7 37.1 83.5 3.8 2.3 0.7 13.3
Gibbs 44.1 45.1 73.2 3.8 1.9 1.2 16.9
Whitehead 36.8 38.8 74.6 3.1 3.3 1.4 12.3
Chapman 34.6 25.7 80.9 3.9 1.9 0.3 10.3
Wilson 40.9 23.5 42 4.1 1.5 1.2 5.5
8/11 9/11 8/11 2/11 8/11 5/11 10/11


Dee, unfortunately, ranks in the bottom half of every category except assists and steals (I was surprised by this one). On top of all this, it doesn't take into consideration his defense, which I think is very suspect, and the fact that he is a senior that has started for the last three years, unlike several of the guards on this list. I'm not attempting at all to pick on a guy because I don't like him, I'm just trying to wrap my head around why this team struggles so much, and it is, without a doubt, our very poor guard play. Again, Dee plays hard, he tries his best, and seems like a very nice guy. I also think Chris Mack is a nice guy, a great representative for our school, and works his tail off to do what is best for this team and university. That hasn't kept many on this board and elsewhere from calling for his head. Our struggles have been the result of our guards, led by Dee, not getting it done. The stats above prove that Dee has struggled to lead this team. I hate to see it just as much as anyone else and wish it was a different story, because he does seem like a really nice kid. He could still lead us to the tournament, which I think would be a major accomplishment for a guy with his talent level, and I will be right there saying "Congrats" to him and the rest of the team.

*Sorry the stats don't line up well. I tried several ways to do it, and none of them worked.

[LA Muskie]

Mohr, I don't dispute your allegiance. And frankly we rarely disagree. But in this instance I think you are underestimating Dee's value. Is he a scorer? No. And because of that, one could fairly argue that he takes too many contested shots.

But aside from scoring, he is an above-average PG. Hell he's 2nd in the two ball-handling categories, and he's Top 10 in steals.

Like you said, he's probably the 4th or 5th best PG in the league. Does that make him a star? No. But it also doesn't make him our weak link.

We're not going to lead the league at each spot on the floor. If we had all-league players at all 5 positions (or even 2 or 3 of them) we'd be killing this league.

Dee isn't the reason we're losing games. He isn't our "weak link" if for no other reason than he's no weaker than any of our other links. Myles, Trevon, Remy, JP and Farr have missed far too many open shots. Each of them has also tossed up too many contested shots early in shot clocks. Stainbrook, Trevon, JP, and Farr are defensively limited, yet don't even seem to defend up to their potential. Jalen can't seem to avoid fouls so he can stay on the floor. And Mack and his staff assembled a team without the requisite balance of athleticism, size and skill (such that we are now easily game-planned) and have failed to put the team we have in the best positions to succeed on both ends of the floor.

That's not to say that Dee is above some blame himself. His shooting woes are well (and easily) documented. He has had occasion to exercise bad judgment. And he does seem to have regressed a tad bit defensively (although he's still one of our top defenders). But by no stretch is he our weak link.

[xu82]

Since your stats don't line up, I choose to ignore you! Kidding... I just think Dee is almost a caricature of a PG. He is all assists and steals, (PG stuff) and almost zero outside of that. He isn't Semaj who could play PG, but really wasn't a true 1. Most of the guys in the BE are combo type players. Dee is not. Size and shooting ability determine that. I don't blame him, he is what he is and he's great at it. This teams failures are not the fault of Dee. We are young and we struggle on defense. That should surprise no one. We are streaky at scoring. Myles went through a horrible stretch last year. Guys who just left high school may have that happen. I love our freshman/sophomore talent and their attitudes. This may take time, and I understand people who are sick of waiting. I remain optimistic long term.

[mohr5150]

I also hope all understand I'm not calling for anyone's head or giving up my fandom. I am on the side of this team being young when it comes to experience together on the court. That situation won't be resolved without games under their belt. Our feshman will be good, and our sophmores will, too. Our upperclassmen have been tough to stomach due to inconsistencies. The imbalance in classes has caused some of the issues we are having this season. That needs to be worked out by Mack.

[MuskiePimp23]

Look, I've been a very strong supporter of this team for the past 25 years and will continue to be one for the foreseeable future. I don't normally call out players unless they are a huge issue for the team. I also have been a supporter of Mack even though so many on this board and elsewhere want to run him out of town on the next train. But in the case of Dee Davis, he is the weak link on this team that is causing it to struggle mightily on both ends of the court. Again, he seems to be an outstanding young man who I appreciate greatly for being a great representative for the university, but his offensive stats don't lie. I ran the stats for all starting PG's (I used both Gibbs and Whitehead for Seton Hall because I didn't know who everyone would consider the PG) in the Big East, and these are the results:

FG% 3P% FT% Ast TO STL PTS
Archidiacono 37.6 35 80.7 3.7 1.5 1.2 10
Barlow 42.4 39.4 86.4 2.8 1.8 2.3 9.2
Dunn 48.6 33.9 66.2 7.6 4.2 2.8 15.4
Smith-Rivera 41.5 38.8 86.8 3.3 1.5 1.8 15.5
Davis 38.3 26.4 71 6.3 2.4 1.5 8.5
Jordan 43.5 35.9 65 2.9 3.1 1.8 13.9
Garrett Jr. 41.7 37.1 83.5 3.8 2.3 0.7 13.3
Gibbs 44.1 45.1 73.2 3.8 1.9 1.2 16.9
Whitehead 36.8 38.8 74.6 3.1 3.3 1.4 12.3
Chapman 34.6 25.7 80.9 3.9 1.9 0.3 10.3
Wilson 40.9 23.5 42 4.1 1.5 1.2 5.5
8/11 9/11 8/11 2/11 8/11 5/11 10/11


Dee, unfortunately, ranks in the bottom half of every category except assists and steals (I was surprised by this one). On top of all this, it doesn't take into consideration his defense, which I think is very suspect, and the fact that he is a senior that has started for the last three years, unlike several of the guards on this list. I'm not attempting at all to pick on a guy because I don't like him, I'm just trying to wrap my head around why this team struggles so much, and it is, without a doubt, our very poor guard play. Again, Dee plays hard, he tries his best, and seems like a very nice guy. I also think Chris Mack is a nice guy, a great representative for our school, and works his tail off to do what is best for this team and university. That hasn't kept many on this board and elsewhere from calling for his head. Our struggles have been the result of our guards, led by Dee, not getting it done. The stats above prove that Dee has struggled to lead this team. I hate to see it just as much as anyone else and wish it was a different story, because he does seem like a really nice kid. He could still lead us to the tournament, which I think would be a major accomplishment for a guy with his talent level, and I will be right there saying "Congrats" to him and the rest of the team.

*Sorry the stats don't line up well. I tried several ways to do it, and none of them worked.

Great points about Dee and Mack.

[XU 87]

I ran the stats for all starting PG's (I used both Gibbs and Whitehead for Seton Hall because I didn't know who everyone would consider the PG) in the Big East, and these are the results:

FG% 3P% FT% Ast TO STL PTS
Archidiacono 37.6 35 80.7 3.7 1.5 1.2 10
Barlow 42.4 39.4 86.4 2.8 1.8 2.3 9.2
Dunn 48.6 33.9 66.2 7.6 4.2 2.8 15.4
Smith-Rivera 41.5 38.8 86.8 3.3 1.5 1.8 15.5
Davis 38.3 26.4 71 6.3 2.4 1.5 8.5
Jordan 43.5 35.9 65 2.9 3.1 1.8 13.9
Garrett Jr. 41.7 37.1 83.5 3.8 2.3 0.7 13.3
Gibbs 44.1 45.1 73.2 3.8 1.9 1.2 16.9
Whitehead 36.8 38.8 74.6 3.1 3.3 1.4 12.3
Chapman 34.6 25.7 80.9 3.9 1.9 0.3 10.3
Wilson 40.9 23.5 42 4.1 1.5 1.2 5.5
8/11 9/11 8/11 2/11 8/11 5/11 10/11


Dee, unfortunately, ranks in the bottom half of every category except assists and steals (I was surprised by this one). On top of all this, it doesn't take into consideration his defense, which I think is very suspect, and the fact that he is a senior that has started for the last three years, unlike several of the guards on this list. I'm not attempting at all to pick on a guy because I don't like him, I'm just trying to wrap my head around why this team struggles so much, and it is, without a doubt, our very poor guard play.

Dee has his limitations. On the other hand, he is second in the BE in assists, by a fairly wide margin. In some ways, that's like a two guard being second in the league in scoring and saying, "He's not very good- all he does is score. He's in the bottom of the league in three point percentage and assists for shooting guards."

Dee is also a pretty good on ball defender.

This team struggles primarily because of lousy defense, which I think is primarily due to lack of athleticism.

[Xville]

Dee has his limitations. On the other hand, he is second in the BE in assists, by a fairly wide margin. In some ways, that's like a two guard being second in the league in scoring and saying, "He's not very good- all he does is score. He's in the bottom of the league in three point percentage and assists for shooting guards."

Dee is also a pretty good on ball defender.

This team struggles primarily because of lousy defense, which I think is primarily due to lack of athleticism.

Athleticism maybe....scheme absolutely. Our defensive scheme absolutely sucks. Hedging is stupid, switching every screen is also stupid...either play straight up man to man or play a zone or hell mix it up but stop with the Hedging and stop switching every screen it's awful

[spursy]

I really don't know how this became all about dee without Stainbrook being mentioned. It's kind of a joke. Dee is not the problem, nor is Stainbrook, but we'd be better with a more athletic player in their positions. The witch hunt on dee and lack of critique for Stainbrook is a damn joke.

[XU 87]

Athleticism maybe....scheme absolutely. Our defensive scheme absolutely sucks. Hedging is stupid, switching every screen is also stupid...either play straight up man to man or play a zone or hell mix it up but stop with the Hedging and stop switching every screen it's awful

So if a defender gets screened, how would you defend if you don't switch or hedge?

[RoseyMuskie]

I know it's cliche, but the saying, "your team goes as your point guard goes," applies well to this team. I think Dee is a shade above average. I think this team is a shade above average. Oversimplification? Sure. But there is some correlation.

[Xville]

So if a defender gets screened, how would you defend if you don't switch or hedge?

Fight thru the screen

[XfansinKy]

If Christon is our our point guard this year like we thought he would be when Mack recruited him, X is a top 25 team IMO.

[sgarcia]

Fight thru the screen

This! It's like the guys (all of them) let themselves get screened so we can hedge all the time. It must be part of our pack line scheme. Just go under the screen or fight through it if the guy isn't a good shooter. If the guy is a good shooter then hedge if it's absolutely necessary.

[ammtd34]

This! It's like the guys (all of them) let themselves get screened so we can hedge all the time. It must be part of our pack line scheme. Just go under the screen or fight through it if the guy isn't a good shooter. If the guy is a good shooter then hedge if it's absolutely necessary.

So either go under, over the screen, or hedge and recover?

[sgarcia]

So either go under, over the screen, or hedge and recover?

Correct. Unlike hedging 100% of the time like we do. You recognize who the screen is for, determine if that guy is capable of making a long jump shot and defend the screen accordingly. As I stated previously, if the person the screen is for is not a good shooter (Derek Wilson for example) just go under the screen. If the screen is for a guy like Dunham I'm all for fighting over the top of the screen or hedging so he doesn't get an easy look at a 3.

[XUFan09]

If Christon is our our point guard this year like we thought he would be when Mack recruited him, X is a top 25 team IMO.

Christon wouldn't be our point guard. He would be the 2 guard, because the offense ran better with him off the ball and Dee on the ball. Even NBA scouts thoght so, which is a big reason why Christon, despite his talent and his college production, wasn't drafted until near the end of the second round. But the team would be a bit better offensively and much better defensively having him in the lineup.

I can understand some criticism, but the way some people make Dee a scapegoat for this team and harm on him boggles the mind. I said the offense would be a bit better with Semaj and not much better because frankly it's getting close to its ceiling. The offense is ranked 18th in adjusted efficiency by Kenpom, and some are complaining about the point guard running the offense. It just doesn't make sense. You can't have an offense that good without a good point guard; just look at the offensive talent on the 2009 team that unfortunately had Dante Jackson playing out of position at point guard. Meanwhile, the defense is ranked a weak 85th (and that's near the highest that defense has been ranked this season). In Xavier's losses, the opponents had the following points per possession (D1 average is 1.017):

1.10
1.00
1.06
1.11
1.29
1.31
0.96
1.20
1.11
1.15

So in most losses, including the most recent St. John's and Creighton losses at home, Xavier has allowed their opponents to score significantly above the D1 average. They've allowed the team to score too much in a number of wins too, but the offense was able to overcome the poor defense in those instances. If they allow so many teams to get buckets easily, the offense can't always be relied on to carry the day.

Dee is limited as a scorer and is also in a shooting slump, but he's not the reason the team has 10 losses. The defense is the problem.

[XU 87]

[QUOTE=Xville;486605]Fight thru the screen[/QUOTE

If we could just fight through every screen, the other team wouldn't score very much. But high ball screens using a tall and usually wide guy often work. It gives the offensive player a step, and that's all they need at this level is one step.

[Masterofreality]

[QUOTE=Xville;486605]Fight thru the screen[/QUOTE

If we could just fight through every screen, the other team wouldn't score very much. But high ball screens using a tall and usually wide guy often work. It gives the offensive player a step, and that's all they need at this level is one step.

Depends on who the screen is set for. Like Sergio said above..if the PG is not a good outside shooter, why hedge? Big guy stays home as a back line of defense? Who cares if the big goes out to screen? We hedge against EVERYBODY with little regard as to the PG's capabilities.

[XfansinKy]

I apologize for getting off topic. Semaj was the starting point guard for the top high school team in the nation. ESPN considered him a top 10 point guard in high school, top 5 point guard in prep school. He is widely considered the best point guard in the D-league and made the all star team while scoring 10pts 4assts 3stl in 22 min for what its worth in an all star game. If he makes an NBA roster (I believe he will) its obviously going to be as a point guard. He for some reason couldn't play point at X though? That's just strange to me.

[bleedXblue]

I apologize for getting off topic. Semaj was the starting point guard for the top high school team in the nation. ESPN considered him a top 10 point guard in high school, top 5 point guard in prep school. He is widely considered the best point guard in the D-league and made the all star team while scoring 10pts 4assts 3stl in 22 min for what its worth in an all star game. If he makes an NBA roster (I believe he will) its obviously going to be as a point guard. He for some reason couldn't play point at X though? That's just strange to me.

Exactly.

[XUFan09]

I apologize for getting off topic. Semaj was the starting point guard for the top high school team in the nation. ESPN considered him a top 10 point guard in high school, top 5 point guard in prep school. He is widely considered the best point guard in the D-league and made the all star team while scoring 10pts 4assts 3stl in 22 min for what its worth in an all star game. If he makes an NBA roster (I believe he will) its obviously going to be as a point guard. He for some reason couldn't play point at X though? That's just strange to me.
The NBA is full of combo guards running the point. I think some 90s NBA guard recently said that there are only three true point guards in the NBA: Chris Paul, Tony Parker, and Rajon Rondo. A bit of hyperbole IMO but not far off the mark. Semaj's college game in part suffered from the needs of the team, especially his freshman season. His sophomore season he was great as a scoring guard who would dish out assists too but he tried to force things too much as a primary distributor when Dee was off the court or playing off the ball. That part of his game would have probably developed better in college if he didn't have to play practically all his minutes at the 2 as a freshman. Because of that development, though, he just would help Xavier more at the 2 than at the 1. A little different, but David West would play center a lot at Xavier, even though NBA-wise he projected and has played as a power forward.

[GuyFawkes38]

Christon wouldn't be our point guard. He would be the 2 guard, because the offense ran better with him off the ball and Dee on the ball. Even NBA scouts thoght so, which is a big reason why Christon, despite his talent and his college production, wasn't drafted until near the end of the second round. But the team would be a bit better offensively and much better defensively having him in the lineup.

I can understand some criticism, but the way some people make Dee a scapegoat for this team and harm on him boggles the mind. I said the offense would be a bit better with Semaj and not much better because frankly it's getting close to its ceiling. The offense is ranked 18th in adjusted efficiency by Kenpom, and some are complaining about the point guard running the offense. It just doesn't make sense. You can't have an offense that good without a good point guard; just look at the offensive talent on the 2009 team that unfortunately had Dante Jackson playing out of position at point guard. Meanwhile, the defense is ranked a weak 85th (and that's near the highest that defense has been ranked this season). In Xavier's losses, the opponents had the following points per possession (D1 average is 1.017):

1.10
1.00
1.06
1.11
1.29
1.31
0.96
1.20
1.11
1.15

So in most losses, including the most recent St. John's and Creighton losses at home, Xavier has allowed their opponents to score significantly above the D1 average. They've allowed the team to score too much in a number of wins too, but the offense was able to overcome the poor defense in those instances. If they allow so many teams to get buckets easily, the offense can't always be relied on to carry the day.

Dee is limited as a scorer and is also in a shooting slump, but he's not the reason the team has 10 losses. The defense is the problem.

Also worth noting this:
Kenpoms annual national defensive rankings for Miller and Mack at X.

Miller: 163, 100, 80, 48, 12 Mack: 53, 52, 53, 60, 92, 101

The trend does not look good.

[muethibp]

Surprised to see all the vitriol re Dee Davis. He's not amazing but the real things plaguing this team - not athletic enough to stop people, bad defensive instincts, not athletic enough to rebound, bad rebounding instincts - have little to do with him.

[XUFan09]

Makinde London and Edmond Sumner will add some length and athleticism to the team for the next few years. Kaiser Gates will too, but I don't know how quick he is laterally. Still, the biggest problem defensively for this team is communication, which curtails an already limited defensive potential. Length and athleticism increases the defensive potential of the team, but doesn't resolve that underlying issue. Maybe by next season, the freshman and sophomores (and Remy) will be better able to communicate on defense, but really, they should be better at that by now this season.

[markchal]

Surprised to see all the vitriol re Dee Davis. He's not amazing but the real things plaguing this team - not athletic enough to stop people, bad defensive instincts, not athletic enough to rebound, bad rebounding instincts - have little to do with him.

I think people are putting too much blame on him, but to say he has little to do with what's plaguing the team is giving him too much of a pass. I think he's been a steady player for us this year, but I'm disappointed that he didn't turn into a great senior leader. All of the great X teams have been led by strong upperclassmen. Dee is our most experienced player, but he's never developed enough to be a leader or go-to player. That's not necessarily his fault, but I think that's why people are quick to single him out, since the expectations are high for our seniors.

[XfansinKy]

Just out of curiosity I would like to check the elite 8's point guards on every team. I would be willing to bet more than half get there primarily because of the PG. Its just so important with the changing game of college basketball to have a point guard like the trend in the NBA XUFAN09 mentioned. We don't have that. Next year though with Sumner??

[bleedXblue]

We are on tough spot next year at PG. We are "hoping" Sumner can play and not be plagued by his tendonitis. Even then, he'll basically be a frosh. I wonder if Mack will be looking JUCO or 5th year transfer?

[XfansinKy]

We are on tough spot next year at PG. We are "hoping" Sumner can play and not be plagued by his tendonitis. Even then, he'll basically be a frosh. I wonder if Mack will be looking JUCO or 5th year transfer?
I will be back soon with a report on the best juco PGs.

[XUFan09]

Point guard by committee? Edmond Sumner, Larry Austin, and Myles Davis could all be competing for time there. We might not know for at least a month how that's going to shake out.

[XU 87]

Depends on who the screen is set for. Like Sergio said above..if the PG is not a good outside shooter, why hedge? Big guy stays home as a back line of defense? Who cares if the big goes out to screen? We hedge against EVERYBODY with little regard as to the PG's capabilities.

Even if he's not a good outside shooter, you would still hedge so the offensive player doesn't get a step on his defender and just go the hoop. Depending on if he's a shooter would dictate whether the defender goes above or below the screen.

The only thing I wonder about is if X should hedge for so long and so far away from the basket. Once the defender gets back to his man, there is no need to hedge any longer. I was briefly watching Stanford play Colorado yesterday and on a few occasions the Stanford big man would hedge a few feet and then get back to his guy without getting too far away from him. There are times when Stainbrook's man moves under the basket while Stainbrook is hedging out for what seems to be 15-20 feet and beyond the three point line. Stainbrook has too much ground to recover after that.

[nuts4xu]

Christon wouldn't be our point guard. He would be the 2 guard, because the offense ran better with him off the ball and Dee on the ball. Even NBA scouts thoght so, which is a big reason why Christon, despite his talent and his college production, wasn't drafted until near the end of the second round. But the team would be a bit better offensively and much better defensively having him in the lineup.

Semaj didn't slip to the second round because they thought he should play shooting guard. They knew he would be a PG in the NBA. SJ also thought he would play PG in the NBA, but you are correct, the offense here ran better with him at the 2. The shame of it is, SJ is currently an all star in the D League playing PG averaging 18 points and 5 assists. I don't think anyone was going to talk Semaj out of entering the draft, but he would be a huge asset to this team right now.

This team is lacking a go to guy like SC (and most other teams are as well). We just don't have a player with experience and that level of talent on our roster right now. We have guys that can lead for stretches, and carry a team for a while, but no one that can take control of a game like Semaj.

[XUFan09]

Even a slower guy like Myles would burn a defender that tried to go over the screen without help. Heck, Brad Redford could make offense out of that.

[ammtd34]

Just out of curiosity I would like to check the elite 8's point guards on every team.

Khari Price started for Dayton last year. Serviceable, but clearly not a high level PG. Their run was definitely due to the rest of the squad.

[LA Muskie]

[QUOTE=XU 87;486614]

Depends on who the screen is set for. Like Sergio said above..if the PG is not a good outside shooter, why hedge? Big guy stays home as a back line of defense? Who cares if the big goes out to screen? We hedge against EVERYBODY with little regard as to the PG's capabilities.

You don't hedge just to stop the shot. You hedge to stop the shot, the drive, or the easy pass.

[XfansinKy]

Scratch that. None of the good ones are being recruited by X. It would take a strong late push to get one.

[LA Muskie]

Correct. Unlike hedging 100% of the time like we do. You recognize who the screen is for, determine if that guy is capable of making a long jump shot and defend the screen accordingly. As I stated previously, if the person the screen is for is not a good shooter (Derek Wilson for example) just go under the screen. If the screen is for a guy like Dunham I'm all for fighting over the top of the screen or hedging so he doesn't get an easy look at a 3.

So you are recommending that we decide whether to hedge, switch, slip or fight a screen on a case-by-case basis??? That's a recipe for disaster.

[ammtd34]

A lot of times, the ball screen defense is breaking down not because of how the screen itself is handled, but because of the wing not bumping the roll off the screen.

If Dee is defending the ball and Stainbrook's man screens, Stainbrook will hedge. When Dee recovers, Stain needs to get back to his man in the paint. But after the screen, the wing on that side needs to bump Stainbrook's man as he rolls to the bucket. If that doesn't happen, it looks like Stainbrook is out of position, but it's not his fault.

I'm not saying that happens every time and Stainbrook always hedges correctly, but a lot of breakdowns aren't because of the 2 people defending the screen.

[Xville]

[QUOTE=Masterofreality;486615]

You don't hedge just to stop the shot. You hedge to stop the shot, the drive, or the easy pass.

True, but a guard could also help once a screen is set (teams do this all the time)...personally i think it is ridiculous to have the slowest guy on the team (stain) leave his man twenty feet away from the basket....call me crazy but that makes zero sense to me...and it gets us consistently in trouble because several guys are then out of position and scrambling to get back to their man. Stain gets out of position, the guard who got screened is out of position, and then a wing player comes to help because those two guys are out of position. It creates way more chaos than i think is needed.

[XU 87]

You don't hedge just to stop the shot. You hedge to stop the shot, the drive, or the easy pass.

Yep. Good man to man defense requires constant pressure on the ball. You can't just have guys roaming free with the ball with their man chasing from behind.

[LA Muskie]

The only thing I wonder about is if X should hedge for so long and so far away from the basket. Once the defender gets back to his man, there is no need to hedge any longer. I was briefly watching Stanford play Colorado yesterday and on a few occasions the Stanford big man would hedge a few feet and then get back to his guy without getting too far away from him. There are times when Stainbrook's man moves under the basket while Stainbrook is hedging out for what seems to be 15-20 feet and beyond the three point line. Stainbrook has too much ground to recover after that.
I understand the disdain for the hedge. It LOOKS bad. But I've been concentrating on it the last few games and it doesn't seem to be our problem. Stain isn't getting beat on the retreat and he's not requiring help.

He does, however, use a lot of energy. And THAT is the most concerning thing for me. In many ways it's a defensive scheme that puts the greatest burden on our weakest and least athletic defender.

[XU 87]

A lot of times, the ball screen defense is breaking down not because of how the screen itself is handled, but because of the wing not bumping the roll off the screen.

If Dee is defending the ball and Stainbrook's man screens, Stainbrook will hedge. When Dee recovers, Stain needs to get back to his man in the paint. But after the screen, the wing on that side needs to bump Stainbrook's man as he rolls to the bucket. If that doesn't happen, it looks like Stainbrook is out of position, but it's not his fault.

I'm not saying that happens every time and Stainbrook always hedges correctly, but a lot of breakdowns aren't because of the 2 people defending the screen.

That is true. There's a lot of rotation that goes on when our center hedges. If someone else doesn't rotate over pick up, or at least slow down the center's man, that guy gets an easy layup (see pick and roll, one of basketball's most basic plays and which got Karl Malone and John Stockton in the HOF).

[XU 87]

I understand the disdain for the hedge. It LOOKS bad. But I've been concentrating on it the last few games and it doesn't seem to be our problem. Stain isn't getting beat on the retreat and he's not requiring help.

He does, however, use a lot of energy. And THAT is the most concerning thing for me. In many ways it's a defensive scheme that puts the greatest burden on our weakest and least athletic defender.

I like the hedge. I suspect that every team in the country runs it to some degree. Xavier just doesn't execute it real well.

[drudy23]

I don't understand why people think the hedge is the issue with our defense. We rarely give up open three's on the hedge, and our main defensive weakness is defending the three. We can't defend the three because we can't defend 1 on 1...period. Our guards can't keep penetration to a minimum, and our bigs apparently need help from the guards (you CONSTANTLY see guards dipping down to help the post and the post throwing it right back out to an open man.

I'm not sure there's a big man great enough to beat us by himself in this conference. For the life of me, I don't understand why we don't let our bigs play straight up D and take away the 3...but that's just me.