XAVIER vs CREIGHTON

[boozehound]

For all of you saying you want Mack gone, there's a good chance a few members of the team would transfer out with him. Then you're back to square one. Again.

Just saying.

That's always a risk though, and you don't want to wait until things are so bad you don't have any players, or recruits, that you care about losing. If you hire someone who is currently a head coach you also have the chance of them bringing some transfers with them.

[sgarcia]

For all of you saying you want Mack gone, there's a good chance a few members of the team would transfer out with him. Then you're back to square one. Again.

Just saying.

I honestly don't know the answer but do you know if anyone transfered out after Prosser, Matta or Miller left?

[Lamont Sanford]

For all of you saying you want Mack gone, there's a good chance a few members of the team would transfer out with him. Then you're back to square one. Again.

Just saying.

I hear ya. Do you mean the same guys that can't consistently shoot or play defense to save their lives?!? Uhhhhhh...

[xavierj]

Will it? I'm not sure. Everyone gets a year older which will help out but how will the defense improve? No one is coming through that door that will help on d.

The defense will be better just because Sumner and London will just make the team much longer and faster. Stain unless going against slow fat big guys is a liability and Dee is just so small that guys shoot over him. Offense may not be great but defense will definitely be better.

[casualfan]

I honestly don't know the answer but do you know if anyone transfered out after Prosser, Matta or Miller left?

I doubt it because it was always an assistant they were familiar with getting elevated.

I don't think that would be the case if Mack leaves on his own or is fired. Certainly not if he's fired.

It's much more likely for guys to transfer when they have no familiarity with the new coach.

I don't know that i'd be too worried about it though. We've had a guy or two leave every year recently and I can't imagine this will be any different whether Chris leaves or not.

[GoMuskies]

Matta was not a familiar assistant when he replaced Prosser.

[casualfan]

Matta was not a familiar assistant when he replaced Prosser.

That is true.

[GoMuskies]

Personally, I think it's a silly topic at this point because Mack is no where close to truly being on the hot seat. He's at least a season away from that. So there's basically a 0% chance (barring a scandal) he goes anywhere this offseason unless it's his choice to go. Gun to my head, I'd prefer he stays, but if he does decide to take another job it will be MUCH closer to a Prosser situation (fine, a chance for some new blood) than a Matta or Miller situation (damn, we just lost an elite coach).

[Bullet-Tooth Tony]

I've been a "lurker" around here for awhile now, enjoying the posts but never really feeling much of a need to comment.....honestly, I've got nothing to say now that hasn't already been said but I will say this however- excuses are for losers, winners figure out a way to get it done, period.....I've being seeing a whole lot of excuses flying around here lately in regards to Mack, and to be honest, it's a little disturbing....the plain and simple truth is that Mack is simply not taking this program to the level they need to be at, they've plateaued as a team because IMO Mack has plateaued as a coach....he was a fine choice and a logical replacement for the departed Miller but he's not even close to being on Millers level as a coach....which was fine when they were in the A10 but is a hinderance in the Big East....the bottomline is, if we want this team to take the next step, which we all do, it's going to be imperative to find a coach that can get them there, and the sooner the better....if it means guys transfer out then so be it, but something has to be done sooner rather than later and the excuses need to come to a halt...in case I wasn't clear let me say this again....excuses are for losers.....don't become a fanbase with a loser mentality, expect and demand better!

[Lamont Sanford]

I've been a "lurker" around here for awhile now, enjoying the posts but never really feeling much of a need to comment.....honestly, I've got nothing to say now that hasn't already been said but I will say this however- excuses are for losers, winners figure out a way to get it done, period.....I've being seeing a whole lot of excuses flying around here lately in regards to Mack, and to be honest, it's a little disturbing....the plain and simple truth is that Mack is simply not taking this program to the level they need to be at, they've plateaued as a team because IMO Mack has plateaued as a coach....he was a fine choice and a logical replacement for the departed Miller but he's not even close to being on Millers level as a coach....which was fine when they were in the A10 but is a hinderance in the Big East....the bottomline is, if we want this team to take the next step, which we all do, it's going to be imperative to find a coach that can get them there, and the sooner the better....if it means guys transfer out then so be it, but something has to be done sooner rather than later and the excuses need to come to a halt...in case I wasn't clear let me say this again....excuses are for losers.....don't become a fanbase with a loser mentality, expect and demand better!

A-freakin-men! Reps to you sir!

[BandAid]

Let's go get Archie

[xsteve1]

I've been a "lurker" around here for awhile now, enjoying the posts but never really feeling much of a need to comment.....honestly, I've got nothing to say now that hasn't already been said but I will say this however- excuses are for losers, winners figure out a way to get it done, period.....I've being seeing a whole lot of excuses flying around here lately in regards to Mack, and to be honest, it's a little disturbing....the plain and simple truth is that Mack is simply not taking this program to the level they need to be at, they've plateaued as a team because IMO Mack has plateaued as a coach....he was a fine choice and a logical replacement for the departed Miller but he's not even close to being on Millers level as a coach....which was fine when they were in the A10 but is a hinderance in the Big East....the bottomline is, if we want this team to take the next step, which we all do, it's going to be imperative to find a coach that can get them there, and the sooner the better....if it means guys transfer out then so be it, but something has to be done sooner rather than later and the excuses need to come to a halt...in case I wasn't clear let me say this again....excuses are for losers.....don't become a fanbase with a loser mentality, expect and demand better!

Totally agree. I'm tired of the excuses. We missed too many three's, didn't rebound, opponents making tough shots, we have A10 talent, our fans pointing out other teams road woes. This program was close to becoming an elite level program 6 years ago now its become mediocre.

[Woodburn]

Remember all of this "PAY THE MAN!" nonsense last summer? The extension he received creates a huge problem for X. He's extended to 2019-20. I have no idea what the buyout actually is, but I'm sure it's in the millions. This season is - exactly - why I said in May that we should let him leave if he demands an extension to stay. We aren't a big state school that can just buy out a contract without enduring some serious financial difficulty.

[Woodburn]

For all of you saying you want Mack gone, there's a good chance a few members of the team would transfer out with him. Then you're back to square one. Again.

Just saying.
You may be right, and it certainly is an issue to consider. That said - the logic behind it is akin to staying in a house with a flooding basement that cannot be repaired because you still have a warranty on the refrigerator.

[Xavier]

Plenty of posters came on immediately after the gtown game wondering where everyone that wasn't sure Mack is the answer was. Unless we turn season around (always hopeful) I'd hope it doesn't take another season for Mack to be on the hot seat. I think he would be after the season and if it's followed up by another season like this he should be gone.

The AD is still somewhat knew, wonder if he'd be afraid to shake things up in the above scenario. Also not sure id want Archie but guess it wouldn't be horrible. I'd rather look into a current assistant with Sean Miller or maybe on Virginia staff...not sure if they are a well oiled machine or everything came into place this year, though. (Only reason I'd look there is bc when pack line defense is executed well, I love it)

[Masterofreality]

Remember all of this "PAY THE MAN!" nonsense last summer? The extension he received creates a huge problem for X. He's extended to 2019-20. I have no idea what the buyout actually is, but I'm sure it's in the millions. This season is - exactly - why I said in May that we should let him leave if he demands an extension to stay. We aren't a big state school that can just buy out a contract without enduring some serious financial difficulty.

Pretty ironic that your signature is quoting Phil Martelli about Xavier....in 2011...that was coached by Chris Mack.

Don't worry about the contract or buy out. There will be plenty of schools who will take Chris Mack off our hands if he wants to go.

[gladdenguy]

Pretty ironic that your signature is quoting Phil Martelli about Xavier....in 2011...that was coached by Chris Mack.

Don't worry about the contract or buy out. There will be plenty of schools who will take Chris Mack off our hands if he wants to go.

Please take him. After another year of not making the tourney I'm ready to clean house and start over. This program is heading straight to non relevance.

[muethibp]

Remember all of this "PAY THE MAN!" nonsense last summer? The extension he received creates a huge problem for X. He's extended to 2019-20. I have no idea what the buyout actually is, but I'm sure it's in the millions. This season is - exactly - why I said in May that we should let him leave if he demands an extension to stay. We aren't a big state school that can just buy out a contract without enduring some serious financial difficulty.

Extending relatively unproven coaches that are already under long-term contracts makes literally zero sense. It did then and now we see the result - a change that might be needed won't be pursued because of money.

The supposed rationale - recruits want to see that the coach is under contract until his senior year - is utter nonsense perpetrated by the very coaches that benefit from the acceptance of this idea. Recruits surely know that whether under a contract or not that the coach can be fired or can leave - the LTC does nothing to ensure the coach will be there in, in this instance, 2020. All it does is ensure that the coach extracts far more money from the University if his performance is unacceptable (which, in our case, it absolutely is).

[kmcrawfo]

Plenty of posters came on immediately after the gtown game wondering where everyone that wasn't sure Mack is the answer was. Unless we turn season around (always hopeful) I'd hope it doesn't take another season for Mack to be on the hot seat. I think he would be after the season and if it's followed up by another season like this he should be gone.

The AD is still somewhat knew, wonder if he'd be afraid to shake things up in the above scenario.

Greg Christopher is no way near considering letting Mack go. At this point, we are hoping to hold onto him as long as possible. These posts sound eerily familiar to what was said during Mata's and Miller's tenure. At one point I was actually one of the people foolishly calling for our coach's heads. Over the last couple years, as I have I have gained influence and access to information within the program I have learned how silly and I'll informed my complaints were. We r are all good xavier fans here, but many are way over stepping when asking fir mack's head and r criticizing things they don't understand.

The more I have learned and become privy to within the program the quieter I have been on this board. We have are much better off as a program then 5years ago.

Everyone enjoy the ride. This season isn't over yet.

[NY44]

I've been a "lurker" around here for awhile now, enjoying the posts but never really feeling much of a need to comment.....honestly, I've got nothing to say now that hasn't already been said but I will say this however- excuses are for losers, winners figure out a way to get it done, period.....I've being seeing a whole lot of excuses flying around here lately in regards to Mack, and to be honest, it's a little disturbing....the plain and simple truth is that Mack is simply not taking this program to the level they need to be at, they've plateaued as a team because IMO Mack has plateaued as a coach....he was a fine choice and a logical replacement for the departed Miller but he's not even close to being on Millers level as a coach....which was fine when they were in the A10 but is a hinderance in the Big East....the bottomline is, if we want this team to take the next step, which we all do, it's going to be imperative to find a coach that can get them there, and the sooner the better....if it means guys transfer out then so be it, but something has to be done sooner rather than later and the excuses need to come to a halt...in case I wasn't clear let me say this again....excuses are for losers.....don't become a fanbase with a loser mentality, expect and demand better!

I guess I'm a loser then, because I think this is a load of crap.

We have lost 5 games by 4pts or less. That means we're 14 points away from being 19-5 instead of 14-9 and securely in the tournament at the moment. You can pessimistically call that an excuse by me and a sign that Mack doesn't know how to closeout close games, and you'd be partially right. You could also take it as a sign that we're damn close to being damn good, which I'll take with our current roster. It's growing pains of a young team maturing, our program is not Duke and not immune from the cyclical nature of college athletics. Oh, and no, Mack is not Sean Miller. I know that because he is still here. If you want a coach that's here for 5 years and has 3 great seasons, then leaves, I totally get that. I'd opt for a great recruiter who can build something real with great players over time. Fire Mack and we're exposing our self to a lot of instability.The type that can set programs back for decades.

If you want to talk basketball, here ya go: I don't see the pack-line defense as the problem for this team. We have a small lineup and only 2 big men that can really hold their own on both ends of the floor (sorry Farr), so I don't blame Mack for wanting to clog the middle. I think we'd get slaughtered inside with a more traditional defense. The problem is the damn hedging. There was one play last night, when Stainbrook and Farr were on the bench and Jalen hedged, leading to an easy offensive rebound. That's just plain stupid.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Greg Christopher is no way near considering letting Mack go. At this point, we are hoping to hold onto him as long as possible. These posts sound eerily familiar to what was said during Mata's and Miller's tenure. At one point I was actually one of the people foolishly calling for our coach's heads. Over the last couple years, as I have I have gained influence and access to information within the program I have learned how silly and I'll informed my complaints were. We r are good xavier fans here, but many are way over stepping when asking fir mack's head and r criticizing things they don't understand.

The more I have learned and become privacy to within the program the quieter I have been on this board. We have are much better off as a program then 5years ago.

Everyone enjoy the ride. This season isn't over yet.

Thought I don't think XU should outright fire Chris Mack, I don't think XU should stop him from speaking with other job openings. Let me him talk to the Tennessee's/OSUs/Wake Forests that come offering HC positions and if he takes one we go out and get a Holtman type of coach who will come in and actually preach defense.

Fact is, these kids have talent. Butler and Providence have less talent and are playing much better. Guys, it's coaching and it stops there.

[Xavier]

People were calling for miller early on in his tenure...not 6 years deep. I agree the season isn't over the remaining schedule isn't that daunting and I could see them playing their way on the right side of the bubble. But if they don't and next year we see the same problems- you're kidding yourself if you think Mack being let go isn't discussed.

[casualfan]

I guess I'm a loser then, because I think this is a load of crap.

We have lost 5 games by 4pts or less. That means we're 14 points away from being 19-5 instead of 14-9 and securely in the tournament at the moment. You can pessimistically call that an excuse by me and a sign that Mack doesn't know how to closeout close games, and you'd be partially right. You could also take it as a sign that we're damn close to being damn good, which I'll take with our current roster. It's growing pains of a young team maturing, our program is not Duke and not immune from the cyclical nature of college athletics. Oh, and no, Mack is not Sean Miller. I know that because he is still here. If you want a coach that's here for 5 years and has 3 great seasons, then leaves, I totally get that. I'd opt for a great recruiter who can build something real with great players over time. Fire Mack and we're exposing our self to a lot of instability.The type that can set programs back for decades.

If you want to talk basketball, here ya go: I don't see the pack-line defense as the problem for this team. We have a small lineup and only 2 big men that can really hold their own on both ends of the floor (sorry Farr), so I don't blame Mack for wanting to clog the middle. I think we'd get slaughtered inside with a more traditional defense. The problem is the damn hedging. There was one play last night, when Stainbrook and Farr were on the bench and Jalen hedged, leading to an easy offensive rebound. That's just plain stupid.

Is this what we've been reduced to? Being ok with being damn close?

Horse shoes, hand grenades and Xavier basketball apparently.

As for the cyclical nature of college basketball, we haven't played during the first weekend of the tourney in two years (this could be three). How long does each of these cycles you speak of last?

[xsteve1]

Greg Christopher is no way near considering letting Mack go. At this point, we are hoping to hold onto him as long as possible. These posts sound eerily familiar to what was said during Mata's and Miller's tenure. At one point I was actually one of the people foolishly calling for our coach's heads. Over the last couple years, as I have I have gained influence and access to information within the program I have learned how silly and I'll informed my complaints were. We r are all good xavier fans here, but many are way over stepping when asking fir mack's head and r criticizing things they don't understand.

The more I have learned and become privy to within the program the quieter I have been on this board. We have are much better off as a program then 5years ago.

Everyone enjoy the ride. This season isn't over yet.

Outside of having more money because of the BE, endowment for the coach and the Nike contract what is better about what were seeing on the court from 5 years ago?

[markchal]

Ignore NY44, clearly that wasn't a well-thought out post when he's arguing that Stainbrook can hold his own on the defensive end.

[Xavier]

Ignore NY44, clearly that wasn't a well-thought out post when he's arguing that Stainbrook can hold his own on the defensive end.

Was wondering who he thought the 2nd big man was that could play defense.

[Masterofreality]

In many ways on a macro basis "the program" is better off than a few years ago, however, that is not what wins or loses basketball games.

There have been too many things that go on during games that are making me doubt this staff's attention to detail and personnel match-ups. There have been too many times where opportunities have been missed to do things that would have won some of these close games.

You can 't get away with missing these things in the 2nd ranked league. There needs to be a sharpening up.

[kyxu]

Thought I don't think XU should outright fire Chris Mack, I don't think XU should stop him from speaking with other job openings. Let me him talk to the Tennessee's/OSUs/Wake Forests that come offering HC positions and if he takes one we go out and get a Holtman type of coach who will come in and actually preach defense.

What gives you the impression that they were in the past? Mack has entertained his fair share of job offers, he just hasn't taken them.

[Woodburn]

Pretty ironic that your signature is quoting Phil Martelli about Xavier....in 2011...that was coached by Chris Mack.
Not ironic at all. That was four years ago and it seems like a lifetime. That's actually my point. A lot has changed since then and it's been under Mack's watch. The quote actually seems pretty silly in the context of the last couple years.

To be clear, I'm not anti-Mack yet. This season may get betterr. I sure hope it does....

[Lamont Sanford]

In many ways on a macro basis "the program" is better off than a few years ago, however, that is not what wins or loses basketball games.

There have been too many things that go on during games that are making me doubt this staff's attention to detail and personnel match-ups. There have been too many times where opportunities have been missed to do things that would have won some of these close games.

You can 't get away with missing these things in the 2nd ranked league. There needs to be a sharpening up.

Agreed. I think part of the problem is the fact that we have four recruiters trying to coach this team. None of them established, great coaches. X's and O's. They are all known for their recruiting. I want guys on the staff that can coach the kids once we get them here. These kids aren't learning after they get here. Our offense is abyssmal and our defense blows. Give me some coaches that know X's and O's...we have talent here, but it's going to waste with this current staff.

[kmcrawfo]

Plenty of posters came on immediately after the gtown game wondering where everyone that wasn't sure Mack is the answer was. Unless we turn season around (always hopeful) I'd hope it doesn't take another season for Mack to be on the hot seat. I think he would be after the season and if it's followed up by another season like this he should be gone.

The AD is still somewhat knew, wonder if he'd be afraid to shake things up in the above scenario.

Sadly, deleted by user

[boozehound]

In many ways on a macro basis "the program" is better off than a few years ago, however, that is not what wins or loses basketball games.

There have been too many things that go on during games that are making me doubt this staff's attention to detail and personnel match-ups. There have been too many times where opportunities have been missed to do things that would have won some of these close games.

You can 't get away with missing these things in the 2nd ranked league. There needs to be a sharpening up.

Agree with this logic completely. I'm not really 'calling for Mack's head' yet, but I am getting very concerned. We are pretty deep into Mack's tenure and our best days came early on with upper-classmen that Miller recruited.

When I look at our roster on an individual basis I feel like we should be playing much better as a team than we are. That is on the coaching staff in my mind.

[Masterofreality]

Not ironic at all. That was four years ago and it seems like a lifetime. That's actually my point. A lot has changed since then and it's been under Mack's watch. The quote actually seems pretty silly in the context of the last couple years.

To be clear, I'm not anti-Mack yet. This season isn't over. I sure hope it does....

I get it. I was specifically addressing your concern with the Coaches' contract. Anything to do with that is the least of the worries around here .

[NY44]

Ignore NY44, clearly that wasn't a well-thought out post when he's arguing that Stainbrook can hold his own on the defensive end.

Fine. 1 big man. Thanks for helping my point.

[Woodburn]

I get it. I was specifically addressing your concern with the Coaches' contract. Anything to do with that is the least of the worries around here .

Right on. You make a good point that he may leap short of firing. To that end, a little pressure may be a good thing for all involved.

[NY44]

Is this what we've been reduced to? Being ok with being damn close?

Horse shoes, hand grenades and Xavier basketball apparently.

As for the cyclical nature of college basketball, we haven't played during the first weekend of the tourney in two years (this could be three). How long does each of these cycles you speak of last?

When you have a young team, being close is enough because of promise. Jalen Reynolds is a sophomore!! We return 4 of our top 6 scorers! But you're right, I can't guarantee that we're going to "play during the first weekend of the tourney" (Nice and convenient qualifier to completely discredit our entire last season by 1 day) this year, so we should cut our losses.

[markchal]

When you have a young team, being close is enough because of promise. Jalen Reynolds is a sophomore!! We return 4 of our top 6 scorers! But you're right, I can't guarantee that we're going to "play during the first weekend of the tourney" (Nice and convenient qualifier to completely discredit our entire last season by 1 day) this year, so we should cut our losses.

You're not wrong, we bring back a lot of talent, but this isn't year 2 under Mack, it's pretty far into his tenure to essentially miss the tournament for three straight years (depending on your view of getting pasted in the play-in game). And, while we do bring back a lot, this freshman class (outside of Trevon and even JP, despite his last 10 games) has been a little underwhelming for its hype. And I think there are some big concerns for next year, as we really haven't developed much depth behind Dee and having to replace Stainbrook's offense is going to be difficult (we're spoiled by his passing, how painful is it to watch Jalen pass out of the post?).

[GuyFawkes38]

Looking at Kenpom rankings by year,
Miller: 80, 67, 35, 18, 20.
Mack: 17, 39, 48, 77, 59, 27.

With a ranking of 27 this year, we've been unlucky and lost some close games.

That said, the trend is a little troublesome. Miller seemed poised to break this team into the top 10. That's just not happening with Mack.

[IVANHOE]

Looking at Kenpom rankings by year,
Miller: 80, 67, 35, 18, 20.
Mack: 17, 39, 48, 77, 59, 27.

With a ranking of 27 this year, we've been unlucky and lost some close games.

That said, the trend is a little troublesome. Miller seemed poised to break this team into the top 10. That's just not happening with Mack.

I dont want to get into the argument of mack having his best ranking with miller players, BUT that 17 rank we owe to J Craw.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

What gives you the impression that they were in the past? Mack has entertained his fair share of job offers, he just hasn't taken them.

Who knows, the sad part here is that Mack might not be the problem. He might be saddled with crappy assistants. I don't know. I do know that this team is worse than it was 5 years ago, Mack has had plenty of time to implement any philosophy he wants, and really this should be his time to shine. I get this team lacks experience, but I am just not seeing any viable improvement as the season wears on. They were streaky to start and streaky now.

[LA Muskie]

Who knows, the sad part here is that Mack might not be the problem. He might be saddled with crappy assistants. I don't know. I do know that this team is worse than it was 5 years ago, Mack has had plenty of time to implement any philosophy he wants, and really this should be his time to shine. I get this team lacks experience, but I am just not seeing any viable improvement as the season wears on. They were streaky to start and streaky now.

1. What do we really know about the assistants? As I said in another thread, I'm not saying you're wrong. I have no knowledge about how the staff operates. But I also haven't heard anything but conjecture and surmise when discussing them.

2. Even if there is a problem with the staff, that's on Mack. He assembled it.

[X-band '01]

The only bright side to last night is that nobody else outside of the Top 25 is winning games of note. It seems like everyone from Miami-FL to NC State to Iowa to Texas to Cincinnati is not only losing games, but losing games in inexplicable fashion. I had a bad feeling about the Marquette and DePaul home games and it played out last night. Xavier has played to the level of its competition. That's fine against Georgetown and Seton Hall but deadly against the bottom of the league.

Their effort against Providence has to be much better than what was displayed against Creighton (especially the OT), however. The only reason I'm not going to the panic button is that few teams in the country have really separated themselves to the point where they're stone cold locks.

[GuyFawkes38]

This is striking. Kenpoms annual national defensive rankings for Miller and Mack at X.

Miller: 163, 100, 80, 48, 12 Mack: 53, 52, 53, 60, 92, 101

again, the trend does not look promising...

[muethibp]

1. What do we really know about the assistants? As I said in another thread, I'm not saying you're wrong. I have no knowledge about how the staff operates. But I also haven't heard anything but conjecture and surmise when discussing them.

2. Even if there is a problem with the staff, that's on Mack. He assembled it.

They're excellent at chewing copious amounts of gum in aggressive fashion. And excellent at barking.

[NY44]

You're not wrong, we bring back a lot of talent, but this isn't year 2 under Mack, it's pretty far into his tenure to essentially miss the tournament for three straight years (depending on your view of getting pasted in the play-in game). And, while we do bring back a lot, this freshman class (outside of Trevon and even JP, despite his last 10 games) has been a little underwhelming for its hype. And I think there are some big concerns for next year, as we really haven't developed much depth behind Dee and having to replace Stainbrook's offense is going to be difficult (we're spoiled by his passing, how painful is it to watch Jalen pass out of the post?).

I'm not gonna say this class has been underwhelming because it hasn't lived up to what I consider over-hype. If you're putting that much weight on a group of freshmen and you're not a Kentucky fan, you're going to be let down. We're not a program accustomed to depending on freshmen, it's just a reality of our situation this year with Semaj's early departure. Which was a huge, and I think unexpected loss for Mack.

I gotta be honest, I'm optimistic about Stainbrook and Dee's departures. They do some great things for this team, especially Matt, but I think our dependence on them is only holding up the development of our future contributors.

[KFX]

Greg Christopher is no way near considering letting Mack go. At this point, we are hoping to hold onto him as long as possible. These posts sound eerily familiar to what was said during Mata's and Miller's tenure. At one point I was actually one of the people foolishly calling for our coach's heads. Over the last couple years, as I have I have gained influence and access to information within the program I have learned how silly and I'll informed my complaints were. We r are good xavier fans here, but many are way over stepping when asking fir mack's head and r criticizing things they don't understand.

The more I have learned and become privacy to within the program the quieter I have been on this board. We have are much better off as a program then 5years ago.

Everyone enjoy the ride. This season isn't over yet.



You have gained influence? What exactly are you influencing?
Get over yourself.

[drudy23]

We have lost 5 games by 4pts or less. That means we're 14 points away from being 19-5 instead of 14-9 and securely in the tournament at the moment. .

You honestly don't believe this means anything, do you?

[NY44]

You honestly don't believe this means anything, do you?

i think it means this:


You can pessimistically call that an excuse by me and a sign that Mack doesn't know how to closeout close games, and you'd be partially right. You could also take it as a sign that we're damn close to being damn good, which I'll take with our current roster. It's growing pains of a young team maturing.

[Muskied]

I gotta be honest, I'm optimistic about Stainbrook and Dee's departures. They do some great things for this team, especially Matt, but I think our dependence on them is only holding up the development of our future contributors.

Mack has made 2 bets the past 3 years. He bet that gaining a transfer in Matt would give us more than the front court recruits which were available at that point. He also made a bet that Dee Davis should stay at PG and Semaj Christon should enter our program as an off guard. I believe the result of those 2 bets are playing out before us. Would things be different if he didn't make those bets? I'm not sure....I would have loved to see Semaj run this team from point, and still be leading our team. I also would love it if we could recruit legitimate front court help rather than patchwork with transfers and walk on's.

Perhaps critical feedback...and I can't say I'm "optimistic" when they leave because I'm not sure we've addressed their roles when they do. I just know that what they've offered has a ceiling, and I'm afraid it hasn't and will never meet our expectations, which is alot if impact (3 years minimum) due to those bets.

[kmcrawfo]

You have gained influence? What exactly are you influencing?
Get over yourself.

Sadly Deleted by user.

[GoMuskies]

Hey, don't mess with Dr. KMCRAWFO, pimple popper!

(It's a Seinfled reference, by the way, that got Jerry in trouble. He forgot about skin cancer.)

[XfansinKy]

I guess if the fan base hasn't followed the downward trend in the quality of play, talent, lack of in game adjustments, zero recruits in the NBA etc as we have, another program would be happy to have him. I heard the Cal job he looked at was a fixer upper facility wise. I believe this is an awesome, elite level basketball program and Mack would be hard pressed to get a better offer. May as well pull for the guy. I get frustrated, but hope beyond hope he figures it out.

[X-man]

Greg Christopher is no way near considering letting Mack go. At this point, we are hoping to hold onto him as long as possible. These posts sound eerily familiar to what was said during Mata's and Miller's tenure. At one point I was actually one of the people foolishly calling for our coach's heads. Over the last couple years, as I have I have gained influence and access to information within the program I have learned how silly and I'll informed my complaints were. We r are good xavier fans here, but many are way over stepping when asking fir mack's head and r criticizing things they don't understand.

The more I have learned and become privacy to within the program the quieter I have been on this board. We have are much better off as a program then 5years ago.

Everyone enjoy the ride. This season isn't over yet.

I hope you are not a Xavier grad because your writing is atrocious.

[LA Muskie]

You have may have no idea who I am or what I give/do for this University, my friend. I have been blessed with a extraordinarily successful corporation that I founded and my contributions to X are multiples of 7 figures. But, yes I have quite of lot say and influence over parts and projects within the athletic department at Xavier athletics. If you pay close attention to things being release over the next several months, perhaps you'll put 2+2 together. Maybe you will, maybe you won't. It doesn't bother me in the least either way. Frankly, I don't really care as I am far past that point in my life. What I will promise is that is the last I ever reply to this type of ignorant banter. This is part of the reason I stay away from this sort of thing anyways.
Rule #1 of Influence: Those who have it, don't say it.
Rule #2 of Influence: Those who claim to have it, don't.

You are full of shit.

[bleedXblue]

Rule #1 of Influence: Those who have it, don't say it.
Rule #2 of Influence: Those who claim to have it, don't.

You are full of shit.

LOL Reps!

[kmcrawfo]

Bingo.... my friend.

I am a true-blue advocate of Xavier and all it stands for. Athletics and Academics both. We are alumni of a truly great institution which is only getting better year by year. Basketball is our flagship, but X stands for so much more as well. As we develop more influential leaders outside of basketball who give back to the university, the basketball program will grow and become more prominent as well. It is a hand in glove relationship. If you want to become "duke" both things have to happen. Both the University and Basketball program have to rise in prestige.

I will never tell someone to not be critical and share their opinions of our coach and program, but some talk I see is a bit silly and I really wish people would refrain from beating up on the kids too much. During the interactions my family and children have had with Greg Christopher, Coach Mack, and the players themselves I have never seen a finer group of people representing our University.

In terms of basketball, I truly believe we will get this funk figured out and have a good season in the end, but then again I am a glass half full kind of guy. What is the point of approaching life in any other way.

Take care my friends for your friendly pimple popper...

[XfansinKy]

Rule #1 of Influence: Those who have it, don't say it.
Rule #2 of Influence: Those who claim to have it, don't.

You are full of shit.
Bullseye!!! Good call LA.

[GoMuskies]

What kind of influence does being All For One Champions Circle get you?

[Muskie]

What kind of influence does being All For One Champions Circle get you?

Membership has privileges.

[kmcrawfo]

Wow, I am surprised at the negativity and downright rudeness on this board. It is a shame to see such things. Here is what I am going to do. I'll just delete all these posts and you can forget about it. I now know why I stay away from forums like this and you guys won't have to worry about seeing me around any time soon.

Truly a sad day for me to be treated as such by fellow Xavier Alumni.

[GoMuskies]

I'd hate to see you do this. I notice that you've been quite generous in giving away tickets on this board a number of times.

[XfansinKy]

Wow, I am surprised at the negativity and downright rudeness on this board. It is a shame to see such things. Here is what I am going to do. I'll just delete all these posts and you can forget about it. I now know why I stay away from forums like this and you guys won't have to worry about seeing me around any time soon.

Truly a sad day for me to be treated as such by fellow Xavier Alumni.
You do need to work on your spelling as I'm sure I do. I also can take some punishment as it's usually self inflicted. Keep your head up pimple popping misspeller. I think you may be taking yourself and myself a little too serious. Maybe you just have a sensitive nature.:friends::friends:

[Muskie]

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. No one is excited about last night's outcome.

[drudy23]

Yep...it was actually just a blip in the radar, not a trend. In fact, the past 3 years really didn't happen and we're all just waiting for them to "figure it out". It's coming...just wait a little longer...and then wait some more.

[Bullet-Tooth Tony]

Oh, and no, Mack is not Sean Miller. I know that because he is still here. If you want a coach that's here for 5 years and has 3 great seasons, then leaves, I totally get that. I'd opt for a great recruiter who can build something real with great players over time. Fire Mack and we're exposing our self to a lot of instability.The type that can set programs back for decades.



Good lord man, exactly how much time do you think he needs? he's not some first or second year HC still trying to get himself acclimated to his surroundings, he's been here for 6 g'damned years...."there's always next year" doesn't that get old to you?

[chico]

Sadly, deleted by user

Almost 700 posts and what used to be here was the first time that I can recall km saying anything that could be seen as "claiming to have it." I mean, it's not like he's sweet16 who doesn't miss a chance to tell you how well connected he is. I know tensions are pretty high around here but why not cut the guy some slack.

You may not have liked the tone of the message but personally I found it fairly revealing as to what our AD thinks of the coaching situation.

[Muskie]

Almost 700 posts and what used to be here was the first time that I can recall km saying anything that could be seen as "claiming to have it." I mean, it's not like he's sweet16 who doesn't miss a chance to tell you how well connected he is. I know tensions are pretty high around here but why not cut the guy some slack.

You may not have liked the tone of the message but personally I found it fairly revealing as to what our AD thinks of the coaching situation.

As I said, it may be advisable for some people to take a deep breath. The lack of civility around here has been declining big time. Just because someone doesn't agree with something you don't like doesn't make it wrong or worthy of scorn.

[Xavier]

Good lord man, exactly how much time do you think he needs? he's not some first or second year HC still trying to get himself acclimated to his surroundings, he's been here for 6 g'damned years.....6 years of middling, that's pretty much what it's been other than the JCrawford run they went on with all of Millers players....

They also went to the sweet 16 without JCrawford. I don't think you can dismiss Macks tournament accomplishments to simply "Millers players". I am not defending Mack the past few seasons but I also won't diminish what he accomplished early on.

As to NY44- great recruiter who can build something real with great players over time sounds a lot like Josh Pastner to me.

[XfansinKy]

I take responsibility for some. I actually was humoring KM. Still, on a message board he probably couldn't recognize it. My bad.

[KFX]

Sadly Deleted by user.

I don't even know what that means...

I also do not understand why you would claim influence over any aspect of the Xavier Basketball program. And apparently see nothing wrong with such claim. Or understand why others might call you out for such claim.

Anyway, I really don't care.

As for X, when I listen to Mack I hear a smart coach who appears to really understand the game he coaches.

I have to admit though, doubts are creeping in about his abilities. I wish him the best though and hope X can rally.

Back to lurking....

Big hello to LA muskie though.

[sweet16]

Almost 700 posts and what used to be here was the first time that I can recall km saying anything that could be seen as "claiming to have it." I mean, it's not like he's sweet16 who doesn't miss a chance to tell you how well connected he is. I know tensions are pretty high around here but why not cut the guy some slack.

You may not have liked the tone of the message but personally I found it fairly revealing as to what our AD thinks of the coaching situation.

Hey fluffer, why the fascination with me?

[JEHARDI]

Matta was not a familiar assistant when he replaced Prosser.

Matta was a head coach for a year at Butler prior to replacing Prosser and took Butler to the NCAA tourney that year.

[Cheesehead]

As I said, it may be advisable for some people to take a deep breath. The lack of civility around here has been declining big time. Just because someone doesn't agree with something you don't like doesn't make it wrong or worthy of scorn.

Shut up….a-hole! :jumpforjoy: only kidding. Some folks need to remember it's just a basketball game.

[xu82]

....and maybe dust off the old ignore feature if need be...

[LadyMuskie]

Matta was a head coach for a year at Butler prior to replacing Prosser and took Butler to the NCAA tourney that year.

Right, but the point being made was that Matta wasn't an assistant on Prosser's staff when he took over here.

[GoMuskies]

Matta was a head coach for a year at Butler prior to replacing Prosser and took Butler to the NCAA tourney that year.

Umm....thanks?

[LadyMuskie]

....and maybe dust off the old ignore feature if need be...

That's for quitters!

[LA Muskie]

As I said, it may be advisable for some people to take a deep breath. The lack of civility around here has been declining big time. Just because someone doesn't agree with something you don't like doesn't make it wrong or worthy of scorn.
Since it sounds like my post may have been what caused KMCRAWFO to bolt, I will apologize to the rest of the Board to the extent I took it too far. It honestly didn't seem like it at the time, and it really doesn't seem like it to me even now, but he obviously took offense, and maybe some of the rest of you did as well.

Incidentally, I have exchanged PMs with him offline, and I think (or at least hope) we have made our peace. I honestly don't know if he is who he claims to be, or not. This is an anonymous message board, after all.

But I still stand by the point of my post. In my experience, those who have true influence have neither the inclination nor the desire to tell anyone else about it. On the other hand, there seems to be no shortage of those who claim to have "power" that they really don't have.

Maybe KMCRAWFO is the exception to that rule. But if that's the case, he should probably reconsider his approach. On an anonymous message board, claiming "influence" over the program is usually going to result in hits a lot harder than mine.

[xu82]

Losing sucks. Especially like that. It also brings out some people who just wait for the right moment to pop up again.

[X-band '01]

Losing sucks. Especially like that. It also brings out some people who just wait for the right moment to pop up again.

There's losing and then there's being ejected like Goose into the canopy.

If Xavier wins Saturday, there will be some return to normalcy. If not, get the popcorn and watch the board go into meltdown in advance of the Crosstown Shootout.

[xu82]

There's losing and then there's being ejected like Goose into the canopy.

If Xavier wins Saturday, there will be some return to normalcy. If not, get the popcorn and watch the board go into meltdown in advance of the Crosstown Shootout.

Poor Goose, I always liked him. The highs are very high, and the lows.... look like this. I want more highs and fewer..... Goose shots into the canopy.

[DC Muskie]

Well we've shot the ball behind the arc at a terrible rate, we match up terribly to everyone outside Georgetown. Our defense went up and then back down. In short, we are terribly inconsistent in a lot of areas. I don't doubt that we fall into the same category as 75% of most programs.

Look, I like Mack. But what I'm seeing is really a lack of support. From the players and his staff. The fact that we can't look to one guy on the bench, either to be that leader on the floor, or a coach who we can see as helpful, in terms of strategy and correcting problems on either end of the floor.

All of this adds up to a program that's just good enough to make the tournament, (which at the moment I don't think we are) while we wonder where all the leadership within the players and the staff.

We are already in my mind the NC State of the BE. Really just a middle of the pack program, capable of maybe moving up a few years, but not really so bad that we fall off the table.

We need to figure out how to recruit leaders, how to recruit coaches who know how to help with 3 point shooting and three point defense.

It's crazy to think how close we are to being a top contending team in this conference. Next season will really tell if we are able to emerge with leaders on floor along with a coaching staff that is able to implement schemes that are more consistent and supply that support that Mack was more than capable of providing when he wasn't the head guy.

[LA Muskie]

Well we've shot the ball behind the arc at a terrible rate, we match up terribly to everyone outside Georgetown. Our defense went up and then back down. In short, we are terribly inconsistent in a lot of areas. I don't doubt that we fall into the same category as 75% of most programs.

Look, I like Mack. But what I'm seeing is really a lack of support. From the players and his staff. The fact that we can't look to one guy on the bench, either to be that leader on the floor, or a coach who we can see as helpful, in terms of strategy and correcting problems on either end of the floor.

All of this adds up to a program that's just good enough to make the tournament, (which at the moment I don't think we are) while we wonder where all the leadership within the players and the staff.

We are already in my mind the NC State of the BE. Really just a middle of the pack program, capable of maybe moving up a few years, but not really so bad that we fall off the table.

We need to figure out how to recruit leaders, how to recruit coaches who know how to help with 3 point shooting and three point defense.

It's crazy to think how close we are to being a top contending team in this conference. Next season will really tell if we are able to emerge with leaders on floor along with a coaching staff that is able to implement schemes that are more consistent and supply that support that Mack was more than capable of providing when he wasn't the head guy.
I'm not a Mack basher. Far from it. Many have called me a sympathizer. But this notion that the problem is the assistants baffles me. What is it about Mack's coaching that makes folks think the problem is the staff, and not the leader? I honestly don't know what the problem is. But it seems to me that the buck stops at either Mack (planning, motivation) or the players (execution). That's not to say that the rest of the staff doesn't have a role, but I'm not sure why they would become the scapegoat for our issues. Mack makes the big bucks. If coaching is the issue, it's on him. Not his staff.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Losing sucks. Especially like that. It also brings out some people who just wait for the right moment to pop up again.

Yeah it does.

[DC Muskie]

I'm not a Mack basher. Far from it. Many have called me a sympathizer. But this notion that the problem is the assistants baffles me. What is it about Mack's coaching that makes folks think the problem is the staff, and not the leader? I honestly don't know what the problem is. But it seems to me that the buck stops at either Mack (planning, motivation) or the players (execution). That's not to say that the rest of the staff doesn't have a role, but I'm not sure why they would become the scapegoat for our issues. Mack makes the big bucks. If coaching is the issue, it's on him. Not his staff.

Granted I'm not knowledgeable as I would like to be on the assistant coaches, but have you noticed over the last few years that we hardly ever talk about them? Assistant coaches used to a fairly regular topic with Books, Whitford, Mack, Groce etc. A few of those guys have gone on to become D1 head coaches.

Now since Mack has taken over we have seen so many coaches leave: Kelsey, Bino Ransom, Rasheed Davis, Ashley Howard.

Travis Steele has stayed. We know his connections to Indiana are good.

But we have a DeMatha guy on the bench. Mike Pegues played under one of, if not the best high school coaches of all time. What would you say is his greatest asset? I have no idea, but maybe he has one. It sure isn't being able to recruit out here, we haven't even been the discussion for kids since Davis and Howard left. It kills me to see Josh Hart and Kris Jenkins, guys I watched when they were in high school, land at the place where Howard ended up.

Now having Jay Wright certainly helps. But Howard is an asset to Jay and he knew that when he brought him over.

We replaced these guys, with Rick Carter. I think the only reason why we have Rick Carter is that he coached Matt at WMU.

Basically, what is it about our coaching staff that really stand out to you like the ones we had before? Chris is responsible, no doubt, but when we look at rotations, when we look at kids being leaders, where we try and find guys who can tough if out on defense, it can't ALL be on Mack.

That's just me. Our staff doesn't excite me.

[xu82]

I have never been an expert on the staff, but I know less about them now than probably....ever. I'd be curious to hear more about them. Is Steele still a huge part of recruiting? How about the others? Who's good at actually teaching and developing? Once you bring them in, we need to coach them up. I'm not saying we don't, I just don't know who does what. In the past we seemed to have a replacement in training on the staff. Does anyone fit that bill?

[Masterofreality]

First MOR, now this. Now I am really worried.

No, I'm not giving up. I'll be there the next 4 Saturdays...all the way from the north.

However, as I said a couple of weeks ago, I have no expectations of anything. They could win all 8 games to go, or they could lose all 8. I'm not buying into the notion of the total incompetence of the Coach, but I have been very clear on some things I disagree with and things that they just can't seem to see. The things that bother me the most is the A) The seeming "stick to the formula" even when the formula isn't working stubbornness and B) The seeming lack of preparation in situational basketball. How many more times will we see in the last 20 seconds of a game of half, no clue by a player on what to do to score? How many more times will we see that when Xavier needs a bigger body on the floor to rebound or defend we still see the 4 out, 1 in lineup? How many more times will we hear that such and such deserves more minutes, but doesn't get them or doesn't play at all? How many more times will we hear the coaches talk about better defense, but not change up a system that may not fit the players they have?

Everybody involved with this team needs to look in the mirror and be willing to change...including and especially these Coaches.

[NY44]

Good lord man, exactly how much time do you think he needs? he's not some first or second year HC still trying to get himself acclimated to his surroundings, he's been here for 6 g'damned years...."there's always next year" doesn't that get old to you?

He needs 2 years without the school administration turning on his players and his best recruit ever heading for the NBA a year before he should. I really don't want to rehash any of this, but Dez and Semaj leaving are 2 major things that have happened to Mack's rosters, outside of his control. Both of which happened in the same time we were transitioning to the Big East.

Semaj leaving was such an insanely huge blow. That's 17 ppg 4.7 apg and a 38% 3pt shooter gone. I can say pretty confidently that Mack planned on having him another year. Let's compare this to another team who lost their best player last year, who was also a Sophomore, to the NBA Development League. The NC State Wolfpack, who without TJ Warren are an eerily similar 14-10. Teams don't just replace talent like that. "We don't rebuild, we reload" works a lot better on a T shirt than in reality.

[xu82]

He needs 2 years without the school administration turning on his players and his best recruit ever heading for the NBA a year before he should. I really don't want to rehash any of this, but Dez and Semaj leaving are 2 major things that have happened to Mack's rosters, outside of his control. Both of which happened in the same time we were transitioning to the Big East.

Yes, and despite fear of adding to the rehash - Mark Lyons. What talent, and what a ..... headache. There have been more issues than your average coach has to deal with, and he hasn't been responsible for much of it. If we win 3 or 4 straight almost everyone is back on the bandwagon. The highs are high and the lows are low. Today is low. I know it's far from perfect, but it's a talented roster and I believe things are generally going in the right direction. Keep recruiting at a high level and maybe add some depth on the staff.

[Classof1985]

He needs 2 years without the school administration turning on his players and his best recruit ever heading for the NBA a year before he should. I really don't want to rehash any of this, but Dez and Semaj leaving are 2 major things that have happened to Mack's rosters, outside of his control. Both of which happened in the same time we were transitioning to the Big East.

Semaj leaving was such an insanely huge blow. That's 17 ppg 4.7 apg and a 38% 3pt shooter gone. I can say pretty confidently that Mack planned on having him another year. Let's compare this to another team who lost their best player last year, who was also a Sophomore, to the NBA Development League. The NC State Wolfpack, who without TJ Warren are an eerily similar 14-10. Teams don't just replace talent like that. "We don't rebuild, we reload" works a lot better on a T shirt than in reality.

I am sorry, I don't buy that. UC lost their top THREE scorers. And Kilpatrick was much more integral to their offense than Semaj was to X last year. UC might actually be better. Their newcomers have made bigger contributions, and UC is 16-6 with their win tonight. Xavier has not shown the kind of commitment to in-your-face defense that UC seems to have since Miller left. That is on the head coach. Period.

Until Xavier re-commits to playing high-level defense, they will struggle to win on the road. And I don't see that happening with this coach, to be honest.

[xsteve1]

He needs 2 years without the school administration turning on his players and his best recruit ever heading for the NBA a year before he should. I really don't want to rehash any of this, but Dez and Semaj leaving are 2 major things that have happened to Mack's rosters, outside of his control. Both of which happened in the same time we were transitioning to the Big East.

Semaj leaving was such an insanely huge blow. That's 17 ppg 4.7 apg and a 38% 3pt shooter gone. I can say pretty confidently that Mack planned on having him another year. Let's compare this to another team who lost their best player last year, who was also a Sophomore, to the NBA Development League. The NC State Wolfpack, who without TJ Warren are an eerily similar 14-10. Teams don't just replace talent like that. "We don't rebuild, we reload" works a lot better on a T shirt than in reality.

You really think that? Some thought he should have left after his freshman year. I think most on this board thought he may play one more year but was most likely gone after last year.
He has like 9-10 brothers and sisters and he wanted to take care of his family. Also school supposedly wasn't his thing.

[xu82]

The Semaj departure could be anticipated. Dez and Lyons took the best player off the team unexpectedly (for different reasons) and impacted the team significantly. I'm not making excuses, just being realistic.

[XU-PA]

It's my fault. Attended 3 games this season, 0-3, I take the blame, I'm a total jinx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZzFuKBiDos
I will not attend anymore games this season. Perhaps I wore the wrong shirt, wrong hat, but I did not slack up in the shouting, clapping, standing, and generally being a bit of an annoyance to the old coots sitting on their hands in my section. I'll do better next year, I promise.

[Bullet-Tooth Tony]

He needs 2 years without the school administration turning on his players and his best recruit ever heading for the NBA a year before he should. I really don't want to rehash any of this, but Dez and Semaj leaving are 2 major things that have happened to Mack's rosters, outside of his control. Both of which happened in the same time we were transitioning to the Big East.

Semaj leaving was such an insanely huge blow. That's 17 ppg 4.7 apg and a 38% 3pt shooter gone. I can say pretty confidently that Mack planned on having him another year. Let's compare this to another team who lost their best player last year, who was also a Sophomore, to the NBA Development League. The NC State Wolfpack, who without TJ Warren are an eerily similar 14-10. Teams don't just replace talent like that. "We don't rebuild, we reload" works a lot better on a T shirt than in reality.

nothing but excuses......exactly what I was talking about.

[Masterofreality]

If it's any consolation, we bounced back up to 35 in RPI now.:laugh:

[gladdenguy]

If it's any consolation, we bounced back up to 35 in RPI now.:laugh:

9 losses and after next week this team will have double digit losses before February 15th. Pathetic.

[sgarcia]

He needs 2 years without the school administration turning on his players and his best recruit ever heading for the NBA a year before he should. I really don't want to rehash any of this, but Dez and Semaj leaving are 2 major things that have happened to Mack's rosters, outside of his control. Both of which happened in the same time we were transitioning to the Big East.

Semaj leaving was such an insanely huge blow. That's 17 ppg 4.7 apg and a 38% 3pt shooter gone. I can say pretty confidently that Mack planned on having him another year. Let's compare this to another team who lost their best player last year, who was also a Sophomore, to the NBA Development League. The NC State Wolfpack, who without TJ Warren are an eerily similar 14-10. Teams don't just replace talent like that. "We don't rebuild, we reload" works a lot better on a T shirt than in reality.

Lets not forget Mack was handed a very good team when he took over. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you get unlucky. Dez leaving was a very unlucky thing. I think the Lyons decision was a mutual one and I don't think people expected Semaj to come back after his sophomore year. Those are my thoughts on the matter.

[NY44]

I am sorry, I don't buy that. UC lost their top THREE scorers. And Kilpatrick was much more integral to their offense than Semaj was to X last year. UC might actually be better.

I think the big difference here is that UC had no doubt they were leaving.


The Semaj departure could be anticipated. Dez and Lyons took the best player off the team unexpectedly (for different reasons) and impacted the team significantly. I'm not making excuses, just being realistic.

re: Semaj. Really? I'm sure Mack has done his homework about filling positions each year. I would have anticipated Semaj to play through this year and Sumner be able to take the reigns next year. The only problem I have with the management of the squad is his development of Randolph. I'm not sure what's going on there.

[NY44]

nothing but excuses......exactly what I was talking about.

You must just be the ultimate human being if you throw everything out the window when your definition of success isn't achieved.

[XU 87]

nothing but excuses......exactly what I was talking about.

One man's facts are another man's excuses, particularly when the other man disagrees with said facts.

[xu82]

re: Semaj. Really?

Yes, really. It was far from a certainty, but if it so widely discussed here, I'm sure the people closest to the player knew it was a possibility. I personally though he should have stayed another year, but we knew he might leave., so you could anticipate and prepare accordingly. Tough situation, but that's what they do. That was kind of a tweener. Bottom line is - he 's gone, for better or for worse. I'm not a blind supporter, but I trust Mack a lot more than many (and the many seems to be growing).

[NY44]

Yes, really. It was far from a certainty, but if it so widely discussed here, I'm sure the people closest to the player knew it was a possibility. I personally though he should have stayed another year, but we knew he might leave., so you could anticipate and prepare accordingly. Tough situation, but that's what they do. That was kind of a tweener. Bottom line is - he 's gone, for better or for worse. I'm not a blind supporter, but I trust Mack a lot more than many (and the many seems to be growing).

I agree with all of this and would shake your hand, sir. I can't imagine how hard it is to gauge and plan upon these young men's life interests/decisions.

[LA Muskie]

Granted I'm not knowledgeable as I would like to be on the assistant coaches, but have you noticed over the last few years that we hardly ever talk about them? Assistant coaches used to a fairly regular topic with Books, Whitford, Mack, Groce etc. A few of those guys have gone on to become D1 head coaches.

Now since Mack has taken over we have seen so many coaches leave: Kelsey, Bino Ransom, Rasheed Davis, Ashley Howard.

Travis Steele has stayed. We know his connections to Indiana are good.

But we have a DeMatha guy on the bench. Mike Pegues played under one of, if not the best high school coaches of all time. What would you say is his greatest asset? I have no idea, but maybe he has one. It sure isn't being able to recruit out here, we haven't even been the discussion for kids since Davis and Howard left. It kills me to see Josh Hart and Kris Jenkins, guys I watched when they were in high school, land at the place where Howard ended up.

Now having Jay Wright certainly helps. But Howard is an asset to Jay and he knew that when he brought him over.

We replaced these guys, with Rick Carter. I think the only reason why we have Rick Carter is that he coached Matt at WMU.

Basically, what is it about our coaching staff that really stand out to you like the ones we had before? Chris is responsible, no doubt, but when we look at rotations, when we look at kids being leaders, where we try and find guys who can tough if out on defense, it can't ALL be on Mack.

That's just me. Our staff doesn't excite me.


I have never been an expert on the staff, but I know less about them now than probably....ever. I'd be curious to hear more about them. Is Steele still a huge part of recruiting? How about the others? Who's good at actually teaching and developing? Once you bring them in, we need to coach them up. I'm not saying we don't, I just don't know who does what. In the past we seemed to have a replacement in training on the staff. Does anyone fit that bill?

Very good points, DC and 82. But for me, that still comes back to Mack. He chooses his staff and it's on him to make the job attractive and to maintain a consistent staff. Losing assistants to promotions is understandable -- most head coaches wear that as a badge of honor. But we've lost several coaches to lateral positions, or no position at all. I understand each may have its own viable excuse, but combined it's been a lot. And none of his assistant hires seem to equate to hid predecessors -- Pete had Skip as his head assistant; Matta brought in Miller; Miller brought in Mack. I like Steele, but I don't yet put him in the same category as any of those guys at the same point in their respective careers. Maybe someday he'll get there, but I would not be comfortable with him taking over the reins at this point.

[LA Muskie]

The Semaj departure could be anticipated. Dez and Lyons took the best player off the team unexpectedly (for different reasons) and impacted the team significantly. I'm not making excuses, just being realistic.
I mostly agree. The Semaj departure could have been (and was) anticipated. Dez not so much. Tough loss. (But honestly, shit happens. To nearly every program in the country.) Lyons was a personal choice on the part of Mack. He can't kick a kid off the team and then have the kid's absence used as an excuse. (I know you're not making excuses, but others use this...)

[LA Muskie]

re: Semaj. Really? I'm sure Mack has done his homework about filling positions each year. I would have anticipated Semaj to play through this year and Sumner be able to take the reigns next year. The only problem I have with the management of the squad is his development of Randolph. I'm not sure what's going on there.
The staff was very well aware -- early on -- that Semaj likely would not return this year. They were not caught off guard. We're carrying 4 PGs on our roster this year. Theoretically we were covered for the loss. Unfortunately, only one is viable.

[xavierj]

The staff was very well aware -- early on -- that Semaj likely would not return this year. They were not caught off guard. We're carrying 4 PGs on our roster this year. Theoretically we were covered for the loss. Unfortunately, only one is viable.

The PG issue is squarely on the coaches. They need to recruit better and even bigger than that, develop your players on both sides of the floor. I think Austin will be a serviceable role player and hopefully Sumner can be the guy.

[GuyFawkes38]

The 2010 recruiting class looms large in my mind (Griffin Mckenzie, Justin Martin, Jay Canty, Jordan Latham). This class got the Mack recruiting era off to a poor start. It feels like we've been trying to play catch up since then, with little success (exceptions are Dez and Semaj).

[xu82]

But for me, that still comes back to Mack. He chooses his staff and it's on him to make the job attractive and to maintain a consistent staff.

Excellent point, that IS the bottom line. I wish I knew more about who left (and why) and who replaced them (and what the other options looked like). It just seemed to get crazy there for a while.

[XUFan09]

I actually hear good things about the current assistants, particularly compared to former ones. Btw we can thank Carter for Macura. We weren't in on that recruitment until Carter joined the team.

[xu82]

I actually hear good things about the current assistants, particularly compared to former ones. Btw we can thank Carter for Macura. We weren't in on that recruitment until he joined the team.

That's great to hear. I'm not trying to malign anyone, I just don't know what we went through and why. Also, I hope we have guys who can develop as well as recruit. We need plenty of both. And NO, I'm not saying we don't develop anyone because that's not true. I just wonder if we can do better in that regard?

[LA Muskie]

That's great to hear. I'm not trying to malign anyone, I just don't know what we went through and why. Also, I hope we have guys who can develop as well as recruit. We need plenty of both. And NO, I'm not saying we don't develop anyone because that's not true. I just wonder if we can do better in that regard?
I think player and team development is a fair criticism of this staff. It's not that they haven't developed players, but the trajectory does not seem as steep and/or as quick as in the past. This year has probably highlighted it more than in years past, but I think it's been a bit endemic of the Mack years.

[XUFan09]

That's great to hear. I'm not trying to malign anyone, I just don't know what we went through and why. Also, I hope we have guys who can develop as well as recruit. We need plenty of both. And NO, I'm not saying we don't develop anyone because that's not true. I just wonder if we can do better in that regard?

Pegues is a good bigs coach, with Taylor being the best example of his player development. I think he's done a good job with Stainbrook and Reynolds too, and Farr, though limited by not fulfilling the "stretch" part of stretch-5 very well, has his moments.

In terms of player development, I think the issues are more on the defensive side of the ball. Abell still isn't that good of a system defender, Reynolds and Randolph still look lost at times, Farr should be much better by his third year, and the team as a whole isn't communicating nearly as well as they should. With Stainbrook, I don't know how much of it is his physical limitations, but he just isn't getting to the hedge fast enough and some of that is probably mental mistakes. Dee, Myles, and Trevon get that side of the ball well at least (while Macura doesn't), and Austin and O'Mara seem to have done a solid job in limited minutes. A lot of it is just that this team developed chemistry on the offensive side of the ball much better than on the defensive side. There are a lot of new pieces this year, but by this point, defensive chemistry should have developed better. I'm not asking for an amazing defense, especially given the physical limitations; I'm just asking for a defense solidly within the top 75.

[xumuskies08]

After reading this thread I'm convinced we should just disband the program. Hell, dissolve the entire athletic department while we're at at.

/sarcasm

Some of you guys are ridiculous. I mean, you're allowed to be...just thought you ought to know.