Stain Train To the Nba ???

[Xfan5667]

With the hype coming around xavier's matt stainbrook a preseason all big east player, does he have what it takes for the nba? Good passer and lets not forget a huge load in the paint!

[mid major]

With the hype coming around xavier's matt stainbrook a preseason all big east player, does he have what it takes for the nba? Good passer and lets not forget a huge load in the paint!

Not sure he's NBA material but maybe for the Euro League with Panathanaikos, Barcelona or Real Madrid. Basketball not Soccer.

[94GRAD]

Not even close

[BMoreX]

No

[XU 87]

Good college player. Probably not athletic enough for the NBA. As noted above, he'll play in Europe. And I suspect he'll make a good living doing so.

[American X]

If you follow your dreams, anything is possible.

Matt Stainbrook has what it takes for the NBA, as an assistant coach.

[Masterofreality]

Nope.

Fine college player.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yeah, no to the NBA, not nearly athletic enough. But if he wants to he will make some good money in Europe.

[xudash]

Not sure he's NBA material but maybe for the Euro League with Panathanaikos, Barcelona or Real Madrid. Basketball not Soccer.

Wait a minute. Not soccer!

[xu82]

If you follow your dreams, anything is possible.

Matt Stainbrook has what it takes for the NBA, as an assistant coach.

I would want him as my assistant coach, if he wore the goggles! There was a girl in my neighborhood growing up who put her flippers, mask and snorkle on before going to the pool. Matt could bring back fond memories on the bench with goggles.

Go make good money in Europe.... and not as an Uber driver.

[Xavier]

Nope. Like others said-good college player, could make a living in Europe. Reynolds, IMO, has a chance at the NBA though.

[markchal]

I think Reynolds would be a tough sell. Low bball iq, not quite tall enough, not a gifted rebounder, and also pretty old. Could have a great next two years for us though if he can stay on the floor.

[Xavier]

*didn't mean after this season. I just think he has a better chance then Stain. Next year I could see a big year out of Reynolds.

[xu82]

*didn't mean after this season. I just think he has a better chance then Stain. Next year I could see a big year out of Reynolds.

Yeah, I'm waiting for it to magically click for him. You see good signs, then you see stop signs. If he can be "Good Jalen" consistently it will be fun to watch. "Throw him to the ground with your pinky a second before halftime Jalen" is less fun to watch.

[XUFan09]

not a gifted rebounder

Jalen is ranked 21st in the country in defensive rebounding rate and 160th in the country in offensive rebounding rate.

[waggy]

Jalen is ranked 21st in the country in defensive rebounding rate and 160th in the country in offensive rebounding rate.

Are these good numbers? Are they NBA player numbers?

[Muskied]

I thought that's why the Pacers were tanking their season much like the Colts had to do to get Luck. #downthedrainforstain.

[XUFan09]

Are these good numbers? Are they NBA player numbers?

Yeah. We can just compare him to power forwards picked up in the first round of the 2014 NBA Draft. I'll just put them in draft order and say whether their rates were higher or lower than Jalen's:

#4 Aaron Gordon - Lower rate on both ends
#7 Julius Randle - Higher offensive rate and lower defensive rate
#9 Noah Vonleh - Essentially equal rates on both ends
#15 Adreian Payne - Much lower offensive rate and a lower defensive rate too
#21 Mitch McGary - Much higher offensive rate and an essentially equal defensive rate
#30 Kyle Anderson - Much lower offensive rate and a lower offensive rate

I left out the two international players, but you can see that Jalen would be one of the better rebounders from this group. On a draft board, his rebounding could actually be listed as a plus compared to other power forward prospects. After putting this together, I found this paragraph from a Draft Express profile:

"While Reynolds is a good offensive rebounder, he hasn't put the same focus into the defensive side. He does a decent job of boxing out but at times looks like he is just going through the motion instead of trying to move his opponent out of position, which he needs to focus on to not get jumped over. He doesn't always attack the glass, which doesn't allow him to rebound outside his area. With his limited offensive skills, becoming a dominant defensive rebounder is an area he will need to focus on this season to help his team and demonstrate potential to a NBA team."

It was a fair critique of his freshman year. Jalen's defensive rebounding fundamentals are definitely improved from this year, and it has shown in the stats too. The freshman season they are referencing, he grabbed defensive rebounds at a rate of 19.9%, which was good but not great. This season, he's improved to 26.6%, one of the best rates in the country.

I'm not saying that Jalen is on pace to get drafted to the NBA, but if he doesn't, it won't be because of his rebounding.

[waggy]

I'm not saying that Jalen is on pace to get drafted to the NBA, but if he doesn't, it won't be because of his rebounding.


Jalen needs to work on all aspects of his game, and I would include rebouding in that. And he needs to do it for the Muskies. NBA talk for Jalen is way premature imo. Sure, everyone sees the athletism, the potential at times, but the entirety of Jalen's game falls way short right now. I don't know exactly how to put it, but I guess I'd say he needs to develop a lot more maturity, become more businesslike, more consistent in how he produces whatever it is he produces on a game to game basis. He needs to learn these things at this level, before he can realistically take them and apply them at the next. There are too many players in college that are not making this graduation.

[XUFan09]

Jalen needs to work on all aspects of his game, and I would include rebouding in that. And he needs to do it for the Muskies. NBA talk for Jalen is way premature imo. Sure, everyone sees the athletism, the potential at times, but the entirety of Jalen's game falls way short right now. I don't know exactly how to put it, but I guess I'd say he needs to develop a lot more maturity, become more businesslike, more consistent in how he produces whatever it is he produces on a game to game basis. He needs to learn these things at this level, before he can realistically take them and apply them at the next. There are too many players in college that are not making this graduation.

I generally agree with this, and I do think the NBA talk is premature. For me, the thought process is, "Okay, he has NBA-level athleticism and he can sometimes do amazing things with the basketball. Since I haven't seen that all put together on a consistent basis, though, let's worry about the college game."

I do think Jalen can still work on his rebounding more. As I showed, he's already a great rebounder and is better in this category than a majority of first-round draftees from last year. However, he could be a dominant rebounder, which would be great both for his draft prospects and for Xavier basketball. Thomas Robinson, to which his old coach once compared him, was the number one defensive rebounder in the country in his junior year, at 30.5% (Jalen is at 26.6% right now). That's what Jalen should be aiming for. Being able to stay on the court consistently would help this campaign. When an opponent's shot goes up, the only reason the ball shouldn't end up in his hands is because he allowed one of his teammates to get it instead. That is the kind of mentality he should have. And on the offensive end, he shouldn't just be good (11.5%). He should be a terror. Seton Hall's Angel Delgado as a freshman is corralling 16.9% of his team's misses (#1 in the conference). That's the kind of numbers Jalen should have.

[waggy]

As I showed, he's already a great rebounder .


Where? On this board?

[vee4xu]

Jalen isn't even Derrick Brown at this point and Derrick struggled at the NBA level. So no to Jalen and no to Stain. Matt, nice kid, not NBA material.

[XUFan09]

Where? On this board?
1. Being ranked that high in rebounding rates is the sign of a great rebounder.
2. Being a comparatively above average rebounder next to power forwards drafted in the first round is a sign of a great rebounder.

Which premise do you disagree with?

[waggy]

1. Being ranked that high in rebounding rates is the sign of a great rebounder.
2. Being a comparatively above average rebounder next to power forwards drafted in the first round is a sign of a great rebounder.

Which premise do you disagree with?


That 160th in anything is "great". Or, if there are guys rated equally poor, but still get drafted, then there is something seriously wrong with the stats or the metric or even citing it.

I'll agree that rebounding won't really hurt or help Jalen in the draft. My view is the NBA doesn't draft "rebounders". But it hurts his team and he needs to be better. I'm not even sure Jalen is the best rebounder on his team. Not saying he isn't, but not saying he is either.

I don't buy that Jalen is a "great rebounder", and I don't think your stats show that he is. But I also don't have the benefit of that websites internals so my position could very well be ignorant.

[XUMIOH12]

somebody started a thread asking the exact same question last year...and the question is still just as dumb this year as last year

[XUFan09]

That 160th in anything is "great". Or, if there are guys rated equally poor, but still get drafted, then there is something seriously wrong with the stats or the metric or even citing it.

I'll agree that rebounding won't really hurt or help Jalen in the draft. My view is the NBA doesn't draft "rebounders". But it hurts his team and he needs to be better. I'm not even sure Jalen is the best rebounder on his team. Not saying he isn't, but not saying he is either.

I don't buy that Jalen is a "great rebounder", and I don't think your stats show that he is. But I also don't have the benefit of that websites internals so my position could very well be ignorant.

You're just undervaluing a top 200 ranking, so I'll put it into perspective with some other examples, because it's good-to-really-good. Kenpom ranks the top 500 of each statistic, while the number of D1 players playing enough minutes to be eligible runs in the thousands somewhere. You have to keep in mind that there's a lot of noise in these statistics, because of the drastic scheduling differences. A decent player in a weak conference can rack up good rankings, for unlike the general offensive and defensive efficiency numbers, Kenpom does not adjust these stats for strength of schedule (which is why he goes up to 500 in the first place). For example, the top 10 for defensive rebounding includes guys from Evansville, Ball State, Sam Houston State, and Quinnipiac. None of them play top 100 schedules.

- Trevon Bluiett's offensive rating is 116.1; there is no denying that that's a really good mark (D1 average is currently 101.4). He's only ranked 228th.
- The offense the last two years relied heavily on Semaj, but the percentage of the team's shots he took when on the floor was ranked 174th (2013) and 349th (2014).
- Dee last year was second in the Big East in assists/game, but his assist rate was 155th in the nation.
- Tu seemed to be one of the best in the country at drawing fouls, but his fouls drawn per 40 minutes was ranked 71st, when you think it would be much higher.

EDIT: So, between the 160th spot on the offensive end (good-to-really-good) and the 21st spot on the defensive end (outstanding), I'd average it out to "great' overall. I think Farr is actually the best rebounder on the team, though, which is unfortunate, because he's not bringing much else to the table right now. Stain is really good, but I'd put Reynolds ahead of him now, when I would have listed Reynolds #3 last season. By next season, I hope Reynolds has surpassed Farr.

[Xavier]

Jalen isn't even Derrick Brown at this point and Derrick struggled at the NBA level. So no to Jalen and no to Stain. Matt, nice kid, not NBA material.

Just two different types of players. I never thought Brown had the strength to play the 4 in the NBA (obviously he isn't a 3 either).

[waggy]

You're just undervaluing a top 200 ranking.

Ok so the metric starts to mean something once you throw out every player from a crappy conference?

On the flip side Jalen is usually going up against other guys coming off the bench. And when he is in with Stain, Stain often draws a double team on the offensive end, which should leave him with better opportunities if the shot is missed. But I don't know the specifics of what rebounding efficiency represents. So I went and looked at the X's season stats which is public record. Jalen is averaging less than 6 boards a game. Farr is actually averaging more, while playing fewer minutes. This is a great rebounder? He does lead the team in personal fouls though.

To be fair I think Jalen has had his moments where he has looked really good, even great on the boards. The team is going to need a lot of that coming down the stretch. And since it's energy/effort deal, he doesn't have to hardly think. Just go get the ball. I hope to eat my words that Jalen isn't a great rebounder.

[mid major]

I know people say Jalen plays with "a lot of emotion" but when you dunk on someone and stare down an opponent and get t'd up how does that not translate into a bonehead play? He just needs to play smarter. Screw all that macho stuff and just play smart basketball.

[XUFan09]

Ok so the metric starts to mean something once you throw out every player from a crappy conference?

On the flip side Jalen is usually going up against other guys coming off the bench. And when he is in with Stain, Stain often draws a double team on the offensive end, which should leave him with better opportunities if the shot is missed. But I don't know the specifics of what rebounding efficiency represents. So I went and looked at the X's season stats which is public record. Jalen is averaging less than 6 boards a game. Farr is actually averaging more, while playing fewer minutes. This is a great rebounder? He does lead the team in personal fouls though.

To be fair I think Jalen has had his moments where he has looked really good, even great on the boards. The team is going to need a lot of that coming down the stretch. And since it's energy/effort deal, he doesn't have to hardly think. Just go get the ball. I hope to eat my words that Jalen isn't a great rebounder.

Players who play weak schedules simply have inflated stats, though top 10 is still obviously great (I was just showing how the top 10 alone has multiple mid-major and low-major teams represented). Players who play tough schedules (including Xavier players) have deflated stats. You don't have to throw out the former players. The issue of schedule imbalance is just the rationale for why Ken Pomeroy extends his statistical ranking out to 500. Once you know a player is ranked in a category, you can then evaluate it up against the schedule strength he played with. It's simply more information to make a better judgment. A player ranked in the 400s in a statistical category? He could be good in that category. Or, he could just be above average. The SOS of his team has to be factored in.

I have never seen Ousmane Drame of Quinnipiac play, but he is ranked #7 in the country in defensive rebounding rate, two spots ahead of our very own James Farr and rebounding at practically the same rate. Just going off the numbers, are Drame and Farr on par in terms of their defensive rebounding abilities? It seems highly unlikely, as Quinnipiac has faced one of the easiest schedules in the nation (338th), while Xavier has faced one of the toughest schedules (9th). I still think Drame is great on the defensive glass, weak schedule or not, but I'd have to say that Farr is better.

Now, that's an obvious extreme, but a lot of it comes down to subjective judgment. The number one defensive rebounder (Egidijus Mockevicius) plays for Evansville (SOS #198). Reynolds has clearly faced a much tougher schedule than him, but it likely isn't enough to overcome the disparity in rate between them, 34.7% vs. 26.6%. I wouldn't even put Farr (28.5%) ahead of Mockevicius.

Also, starters aren't resting for extended periods such that you need "second units" like in the NBA. For most teams, once substitutions start happening, you have a mix of starters and bench players. For example, Xavier's most common lineup in the last five games (Dee, Myles, Remy, Trevon, Stain) I don't think has ever been the starting lineup. Despite being the most common lineup, it's still only appeared in 12.3% of minutes played in the last five games. Farr usually starts and Reynolds usually comes off the bench, but they're both playing just under half the game, enough time that they are regularly up against starters.

However, I'll give you the possibility that Stain's drawing of double teams could be contributing to Reynolds' opportunities for offensive rebounds. At least in the last five games, though, Reynolds has been paired with Stain for only about a third of his playing time (It's almost as common for him to be paired with Trevon). There are other on-court variables too, though: We don't have any good guard rebounders and our rebounding from the small-forward position is weak, especially on the offensive glass. On the one hand, these teammates aren't often going to "steal" rebounds from Reynolds, but on the other hand, they're not boxing out their own guys, making offensive rebounds harder in general. Stain and Farr's boxing out probably helps Reynolds, but the lack of consistent support from everyone else probably hurts him. It definitely hurts the team, which is always playing one and frequently two of Stain, Farr, and Reynolds but is currently ranked outside the top 100 in offensive rebounding and outside the top 50 in defensive rebounding.

By the way, I said that I think Farr is a better rebounder, so I don't know why you presented an argument as to why Farr is a better rebounder.

[NY44]

The question of Stainbrook vs. Reynolds is an interesting one. I started boiling their stats down to per minutes, since there is a big variance there. Reynolds and Farr might play lesser quality lineups than Stainbrook, but I really think that's a minimal difference, especially for Reynolds. It's not like we've been blowing teams out and having tons of garbage time, or vice versa. What I found was that Stainbrook and Jalen are nearly identical in every category. The biggest difference is in assists. Stainbrook gets 5x more Assists per minute played then Farr and Reynolds. Those 2 cannot pass and definitely don't fit into the offense as well. They really only catch/rebound and go up with it. Nothing wrong with that, but if you're going to talk about how minutes disparity is skewing stats toward Stainbrook, then you need to consider why he gets more minutes.

[LA Muskie]

The question of Stainbrook vs. Reynolds is an interesting one. I started boiling their stats down to per minutes, since there is a big variance there. Reynolds and Farr might play lesser quality lineups than Stainbrook, but I really think that's a minimal difference, especially for Reynolds. It's not like we've been blowing teams out and having tons of garbage time, or vice versa. What I found was that Stainbrook and Jalen are nearly identical in every category. The biggest difference is in assists. Stainbrook gets 5x more Assists per minute played then Farr and Reynolds. Those 2 cannot pass and definitely don't fit into the offense as well. They really only catch/rebound and go up with it. Nothing wrong with that, but if you're going to talk about how minutes disparity is skewing stats toward Stainbrook, then you need to consider why he gets more minutes.

You needed to pore over stats to figure out that Stain is an infinitely better passer than Farr and Reynolds??? (I kid...I kid...)

[NY44]

You needed to pore over stats to figure out that Stain is an infinitely better passer than Farr and Reynolds??? (I kid...I kid...)

Haha, I know, it's just interesting to quantify it. Stainbrook has the 2nd most assists on this team. That says a lot about him and even more about this team. I have to also note that Dee Davis has more than double that (2.42x). It's just interesting, there is definitely a bit of consensus that Stainbrook isn't the man he was last year; however, there's a lot of evidence that he is the most important player on this team. He leads the team in Points, FGM (not FGA), FTM, FTA, Reb, OffReb, and DefReb.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I dont know why anyone would think Stainbrook isnt as good as last year, he's better really even though some of his stats are around the same. He was voted pre-season Big East so that obviously means the coaches have a lot of respect for his game and as such are probably making him the key game they are game planning against. Despite that Stainbrook is playing really well. I think he had a couple monster games early on against some weaker competition and then came back down to Earth a little bit and people took that as him regressing maybe or not playing as well.

Last years stats:
10.6 ppg
7.4 rpg
2.2 apg
0.9 bpg
0.7 spg
55.6% FG%
69% FT%
24.5 mins/game

This year:
12.9 ppg
7.2 rpg
2.4 apg
0.7 bpg
0.7 spg
64.1% FG%
75.9% FT%


Shooting a lot better from the field and the line. He gets double teamed constantly as well. I think he is having a really good season.

[NY44]

I dont know why anyone would think Stainbrook isnt as good as last year, he's better really even though some of his stats are around the same. He was voted pre-season Big East so that obviously means the coaches have a lot of respect for his game and as such are probably making him the key game they are game planning against. Despite that Stainbrook is playing really well. I think he had a couple monster games early on against some weaker competition and then came back down to Earth a little bit and people took that as him regressing maybe or not playing as well.

Last years stats:
10.6 ppg
7.4 rpg
2.2 apg
0.9 bpg
0.7 spg
55.6% FG%
69% FT%
24.5 mins/game

This year:
12.9 ppg
7.2 rpg
2.4 apg
0.7 bpg
0.7 spg
64.1% FG%
75.9% FT%


Shooting a lot better from the field and the line. He gets double teamed constantly as well. I think he is having a really good season.

He's had some pretty bad scoring streaks. Notably, 8, 5 and 8 against Georgetown, Depaul and Seton Hall.

[GoMuskies]

The only time this year I've really been worried about Matt's value was during the Butler game when he got absolutely abused on the defensive end.

[D-West & PO-Z]

He's had some pretty bad scoring streaks. Notably, 8, 5 and 8 against Georgetown, Depaul and Seton Hall.

Yeah and I think that what may be having people believe he isnt doing as well, but it isnt true when you look at the numbers. Bad streaks are going to happen sometimes, especially when matchups may not be favorable like in some of those games.

He scored 7 points or less in 11 games last year, so its not unusual for him not to score high in some games.

His FT% going up so much is huge given that he attempts the most FT's on our team. I think he is having a good year. Not first team Big East type year, so maybe thats why some people are disappointed, but a good year nonetheless.

[Chalmers0]

The only time this year I've really been worried about Matt's value was during the Butler game when he got absolutely abused on the defensive end.

He was a huge liability in the first half of the DePaul game as well. A ton of the open 3's were because he was either slow to get to his man or a switch led to some confusion between him and the other guys out there.

I'll never question Stain's offensive value because he is a space eater, has solid moves and amazing vision/passing ability but his defense/mobility will unfortunately hold him back in the long run. He will definitely play overseas though and make a solid living.


As far as Jalen is concerned, one player who I think his career path may end up following (or at least I'm hoping) is Adriean Payne. As a freshman/sophomore Payne had a reputation of being a highly athletic and energetic player who just couldn't quite figure it out. He would show flashes but had just as many maddening plays. He eventually put it together a little bit junior year and then by his senior year he was ridiculously good and even went late in the 1st round. Payne didn't have quite as much of a fouling issue as Jalen, but Jalen has also put up slightly better Orating and Rebounding #'s so far into his career. I definitely think Jalen is an NBA player, or at least will get a chance to be.

[NY44]

He was a huge liability in the first half of the DePaul game as well. A ton of the open 3's were because he was either slow to get to his man or a switch led to some confusion between him and the other guys out there.

I agree, but to me this is because of Mack's scheme. If you're depending on Matt Stainbrook to get out and defend a 3, then you deserve to get rained on.

[Chalmers0]

I agree, but to me this is because of Mack's scheme. If you're depending on Matt Stainbrook to get out and defend a 3, then you deserve to get rained on.

I completely agree that the scheme doesn't help him at all, but it's still that issue that I think will keep him from playing in even the top tier Euro leagues, especially since those leagues are filled with stretch 4 and 5's

[PMI]

Stainbrook will definitely play in the NBA... in the same universe where DePaul is better than Xavier, and where neglecting to view each road loss as a sign that the program has hit at a 30 year low is widely viewed here as "pie in the sky optimism."

[nuts4xu]

Stainbrook will definitely play in the NBA... in the same universe where...

Unicorns run wild, pigs fly, and uber drivers get 3 year NBA deals.

[NY44]

I completely agree that the scheme doesn't help him at all, but it's still that issue that I think will keep him from playing in even the top tier Euro leagues, especially since those leagues are filled with stretch 4 and 5's

I liken him to Kenny Frease professionally. What he doesn't have in size he makes up for with offensive ability.

[waggy]

By the way, I said that I think Farr is a better rebounder, so I don't know why you presented an argument as to why Farr is a better rebounder.

I missed it. Not intentional.

[drudy23]

I'd take Stain over Kenny Frease every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Basketball IQ and know-how in different stratospheres when comparing those two.

[XUFan09]

I missed it. Not intentional.
I figured as much. I wish Farr would go back to hitting 3's at a reasonable clip. Then we could have him on the court more for that rebounding. He'd still be a liability in perimeter defense, but his positives would easily outweigh that.

[xufan2434]

I figured as much. I wish Farr would go back to hitting 3's at a reasonable clip. Then we could have him on the court more for that rebounding. He'd still be a liability in perimeter defense, but his positives would easily outweigh that.

He just doesn't look like he has the confidence on his shot anymore.. The guy that was having fun and drilling 3's in the shootout last year is now pressing himself when he finally gets a look and thinking too much. Hopefully he gets out of it soon, It's a big advantage when playing against the zone if he's on

[Kahns Krazy]

Stainbrook will definitely play in the NBA... in the same universe where DePaul is better than Xavier, and where neglecting to view each road loss as a sign that the program has hit at a 30 year low is widely viewed here as "pie in the sky optimism."

We are on track for 30 year lows. This has been covered.

[xu82]

I'd take Stain over Kenny Frease every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Basketball IQ and know-how in different stratospheres when comparing those two.

Stain wins for passing ability and soft touch around the rim. They are about tied for their awesome dunking (right in there with Dee?).

[XfansinKy]

Hopefully we get somebody to the NBA. Coach Mack hasn't sent a recruit yet. I'm hoping yet is the keyword.

[xu82]

Hopefully we get somebody to the NBA.

I went to a Hawks game not too long ago. Does that count?

[LA Muskie]

Semaj is averaging 17.7 ppg (19th) and 5.7 apg (6th) while pulling down 3.5 rpg and swiping 1.5 spg. I think the odds are pretty good that he finds himself on an NBA roster at some point.

[XfansinKy]

I went to a Hawks game not too long ago. Does that count?

I think it does but I'm pretty easy going.

[waggy]

Crawford doesn't count?

[GoMuskies]

Crawford doesn't count?

He came to Xavier while Miller was head coach.

[XfansinKy]

I meant high school recruits.Semaj had a 30 plus point game early this year too. I believe he will play some NBA next year. I think OKC dumped Telfair.

[waggy]

He came to Xavier while Miller was head coach.


So that's, No?

[XfansinKy]

No for Crawford but a yes for XU82.

[waggy]

Half credit?

C+

[xu82]

No for Crawford but a yes for XU82.

On a slightly more serious, but even more unrelated note, the seats at the Hawks game were so tight and lacking in legroom that I actually walked the arena the entire second half with a friend. I'm about 6'1" and I had nowhere to put my legs causing me to feel trapped and claustrophobic. I truly large person couldn't do it. At NBA prices, it really pissed me off. I only went to be with family and friends as I'm not a fan of NBA level effort in regular season. We took the kids to games in Boston and Charlotte a few years ago. One son turned to me about 2 minutes in and said "they're not even trying". That's right son, but they got about $800 from us tonight to watch it.

[nasdadjr]

Absolutely zero chance. Not being mean just hear me out. Do you think stain is anywhere big enough or long enough to stop a guy like Dwight howard? How about roy hibbert or ibaka? Absolutely not then you may say possibly a four. Stain has no perimeter game and his perimeter defense is even worse. Can you see stain on carmello, dirk, or bosh. Stain may see international play but his American basketball ends in march of this year outside of pick up games at the y.

[RedsX11]

Absolutely zero chance. Not being mean just hear me out. Do you think stain is anywhere big enough or long enough to stop a guy like Dwight howard? How about roy hibbert or ibaka? Absolutely not then you may say possibly a four. Stain has no perimeter game and his perimeter defense is even worse. Can you see stain on carmello, dirk, or bosh. Stain may see international play but his American basketball ends in march of this year outside of pick up games at the y.

A simple no would have sufficed lol

[NY44]

Absolutely zero chance. Not being mean just hear me out. Do you think stain is anywhere big enough or long enough to stop a guy like Dwight howard? How about roy hibbert or ibaka? Absolutely not then you may say possibly a four. Stain has no perimeter game and his perimeter defense is even worse. Can you see stain on carmello, dirk, or bosh. Stain may see international play but his American basketball ends in march of this year outside of pick up games at the y.

Wow. Incredible argument! It took 60 posts, but I think we finally got our answer.

[PMI]

Guys, guys, guys. Just hear me out here, I'll present my case. Not trying to be a dick, but Stainbrook is not going to make it to the NBA. You want proof, no way he's as good as Dwight Howard or Carmelo Anthony. Case closed.

[GoMuskies]

Would the Knicks really be worse if they had Stainbrook instead of Melo? Pretty sure it's actually impossible for the Knicks to be worse than they already are. Therefore, Stainbrook is going to the NBA fo sho.

[Xavier]

Didn't read the thread and see what you all think but I'll be the first to say it. He is not going to the NBA, sorry. Not a hater but just...Could he guard a Carmelo? Could he drain from deep? Is he quick enough to run the point? No.