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xavierj
01-23-2015, 08:12 AM
6 at home 6 on the road. Anything less than 8-4 and this team is up a creek. So at a minimum must win all home games and steal at least two on the road. Last night would have helped.

xavierj
01-23-2015, 08:38 AM
6 at home 6 on the road. Anything less than 8-4 and this team is up a creek. So at a minimum must win all home games and steal at least two on the road. Last night would have helped.

bleedXblue
01-23-2015, 08:47 AM
I see two losses at home and maybe a win on the road. 5-7 and 17-14

casualfan
01-23-2015, 08:48 AM
6 at home 6 on the road. Anything less than 8-4 and this team is up a creek. So at a minimum must win all home games and steal at least two on the road. Last night would have helped.

The thing that is scary is that with the way we are tracking we're going to have a real tough draw in the conference tourney.

The top 6 teams get a bye and seed #7 and #10 and #8 and #9 play each other the first day.

Right now we'd play the 7/10 game day one then meet the #2 seed the next day on a short turnaround. Given how this team has played the last few years in tournament situations I think it's imperative we get to at least the 6th seed and avoid playing that first day.

casualfan
01-23-2015, 08:52 AM
I see two losses at home and maybe a win on the road. 5-7 and 17-14

I don't know what the hell to think about the remaining home schedule. We get Depaul, Creighton, St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Villanova at home still.

There are some really tough games in there, but given how we play at home who knows.

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 09:09 AM
I don't know what the hell to think about the remaining home schedule. We get Depaul, Creighton, St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Villanova at home still.

There are some really tough games in there, but given how we play at home who knows.

I see one really tough game. Losing at home to anyone other than Villanova would be a big surprise.

bleedXblue
01-23-2015, 09:10 AM
I don't know what the hell to think about the remaining home schedule. We get Depaul, Creighton, St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Villanova at home still.

There are some really tough games in there, but given how we play at home who knows.

This team very easily could be sitting at 14-5 right now. I would still predict the same finish of 5-7 and a win or two in the the tourney likely gets us in. If its not bad defense, its bad FT shooting. If it's not 20 pts in a half, it's going 3-21 from 3. It's always something with this team.

casualfan
01-23-2015, 09:15 AM
I see one really tough game. Losing at home to anyone other than Villanova would be a big surprise.

Given that in our last home game we should have lost to a very bad Marquette team I'm not taking anything for granted.

IMHO St. John's, Butler, Providence, and yes Depaul all have the potential to be tough games.

I talked a lot last year prior to the season how in this league you can't take anything for granted and while that didn't necessarily play out last year it has so far this year.

casualfan
01-23-2015, 09:18 AM
This team very easily could be sitting at 14-5 right now. I would still predict the same finish of 5-7 and a win or two in the the tourney likely gets us in. If its not bad defense, its bad FT shooting. If it's not 20 pts in a half, it's going 3-21 from 3. It's always something with this team.

5-7 down the stretch is not getting this team in. That'd be 14 losses in the regular season plus another in the conference tourney unless we won it.

You don't make the tournament at 17-14 or 18-15. I don't care who we'll have played.

bleedXblue
01-23-2015, 09:20 AM
5-7 down the stretch is not getting this team in. That'd be 14 losses in the regular season plus another in the conference tourney unless we won it.

You don't make the tournament at 17-14 or 18-15. I don't care who we'll have played.

My comments were based on IF we were 14-5 right now......

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 09:23 AM
Given that in our last home game we should have lost to a very bad Marquette team I'm not taking anything for granted.


It's not taking it for granted to say that Xavier SHOULD beat all those teams. And they should. Other than Nova, none of those teams are particularly good. Creighton and DePaul (despite their Big East record) are bad. Losing to any of those teams at home would be a very bad loss.

bleedXblue
01-23-2015, 09:28 AM
It's not taking it for granted to say that Xavier SHOULD beat all those teams. And they should. Other than Nova, none of those teams are particularly good. Creighton and DePaul (despite their Big East record) are bad. Losing to any of those teams at home would be a very bad loss.

if DePaul is bad, what are we?

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 09:30 AM
if DePaul is bad, what are we?

Significantly better than DePaul

LadyMuskie
01-23-2015, 09:42 AM
I see no way that we can beat Nova at Cintas. We lost to the last year at home and we were playing somewhat better. I also wouldn't be surprised to see us lose tomorrow. DePaul comes in feeling great about beating SH at SH, and we come in on a loss. At this point, no loss will surprise me.

xukeith
01-23-2015, 09:44 AM
I predict 19 regular season wins.
Play in Game or last 4 in

RealDeal
01-23-2015, 09:52 AM
Time for a run.

xukeith
01-23-2015, 10:00 AM
X needs Tu Holloway. Or some leader to put th eteam on his back and carry it to victory.

D-West & PO-Z
01-23-2015, 10:02 AM
X needs Tu Holloway. Or some leader to put th eteam on his back and carry it to victory.

He is out of eligibility.

BMoreX
01-23-2015, 10:10 AM
He is out of eligibility.

But Hu Tolloway hasnt.

Get that guy a mustache, a new uniform and he's good to go.

Xville
01-23-2015, 10:28 AM
I just don't see this team finishing better than 5-7 the rest of the way unless something changes. Last night was encouraging in a lot of respects, but we have a couple of really tough home games left, and then we all know about this team on the road. I know that this year isn't over yet and it is silly to look a year ahead but I cant help it. I don't think Dee is a big loss but I think Stain really could be...I'm worried about the future of this program.

D-West & PO-Z
01-23-2015, 10:31 AM
I see 7-5 as our realistic ceiling.

I feel comfortable about saying 6-6

I am really hoping 5-7 is our basement

D-West & PO-Z
01-23-2015, 10:33 AM
But Hu Tolloway hasnt.

Get that guy a mustache, a new uniform and he's good to go.

Yeah, rising high school star who came out of nowhere. Like it.

Xville
01-23-2015, 10:44 AM
man if they could have found some way to win in OT last night, we could have at least seen some light at the end of the tunnel

toledodan
01-23-2015, 10:45 AM
I see no way that we can beat Nova at Cintas. We lost to the last year at home and we were playing somewhat better. I also wouldn't be surprised to see us lose tomorrow. DePaul comes in feeling great about beating SH at SH, and we come in on a loss. At this point, no loss will surprise me.

stainbrook was out in our home game against nova last year and we almost won.

toledodan
01-23-2015, 10:47 AM
man if they could have found some way to win in OT last night, we could have at least seen some light at the end of the tunnel

even in the loss i saw a team fight at the end and get the game into overtime despite how bad they played. i saw some fire that i hadn't seen in awhile. hopefully some of that will carry over going forward.

Xville
01-23-2015, 10:58 AM
even in the loss i saw a team fight at the end and get the game into overtime despite how bad they played. i saw some fire that i hadn't seen in awhile. hopefully some of that will carry over going forward.

very true...though we have seen some fight now in two straight second halves on the road...its time to see some results...if they don't get a road win in the next two chances, i think we can pretty much go ahead and slot us into the NIT barring a conference tournament 'ship

LA Muskie
01-23-2015, 11:16 AM
Significantly better than DePaul

I wish it was that easy and obvious. But at this point in the season, performance trumps potential. They are 5-2 in conference with 2 road wins (winning on the road in the Big East is TOUGH, remember?) and losses only to 'Nova (on the road) and at home to Georgetown.

nuts4xu
01-23-2015, 11:17 AM
i think we can pretty much go ahead and slot us into the NIT barring a conference tournament 'ship

The NIT isn't a foregone conclusion anymore. That tournament has some funky rules now about who they put in their field, and they don't just take the best RPI's left out of the NCAA's. If we don't make the tourney, I don't think we will make the NIT either.

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 11:18 AM
I wish it was that easy and obvious.

It is. I wouldn't be shocked if DePaul finishes 5-13. 6-12 is about what I expect.

Xville
01-23-2015, 11:20 AM
The NIT isn't a foregone conclusion anymore. That tournament has some funky rules now about who they put in their field, and they don't just take the best RPI's left out of the NCAA's. If we don't make the tourney, I don't think we will make the NIT either.

Ah...well that's fine...i mean for me I could care less about the NIT one way or the other...one question though...what is the point of Dee Davis playing 39 minutes last night? He is not good enough to need to play those kinds of minutes. Free Brandon Randolph!

xuwin
01-23-2015, 11:23 AM
Ah...well that's fine...i mean for me I could care less about the NIT one way or the other...one question though...what is the point of Dee Davis playing 39 minutes last night? He is not good enough to need to play those kinds of minutes. Free Brandon Randolph!

Unfortunately Brandon hasn't earned additional playing time with his performance on the court.

drudy23
01-23-2015, 11:23 AM
I don't understand how anyone can say this is a tournament team.

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 11:24 AM
Speaking of DePaul, I saw an interesting stat last night: DePaul was an independent until they joined the Great Midwest 23 seasons ago ('91-'92). In those 23 seasons, this 5-2 start is their best conference record through 7 games in any of those years. Now THAT's a run of futility!

LadyMuskie
01-23-2015, 11:33 AM
stainbrook was out in our home game against nova last year and we almost won.

If you consider losing the lead at the 10 minute mark in the first half and never coming any closer than within 5 the rest of the game (with like 10 left in the second half), then sure, we almost won.

I'd also argue that while we were without Stainbrook last year, I don't think he's playing as good this year. I'd also argue that Villanova is better this year than last. Stranger things have happened, but the likelihood of us beating Nova is small. Very small.

ArizonaXUGrad
01-23-2015, 11:41 AM
12-7 right now, if they go 8-4 the rest of the way including a win at UC and we are 20-11. This team would need 2 wins in the BE tourney to be considered a bubble team which would be 22-12 assuming 2-1 in NY. Honestly, I think that gives Mack some confidence into next season. Anything other than that and I feel his seat should feel warm.

Less than that, the AD should be letting Mack talk to other programs and see what else is available out there only if there is something out there that is a good fit for Xavier. We are trending down on defense and I am not seeing a qualified PG on this roster for next year.

Xville
01-23-2015, 11:41 AM
Let's just say hypothetically we win all of our home games and lose all of our road games...we would be 18-13 with wins over Georgetown, Providence, Seton Hall and Villanova...I'm guessing that at least if not three of those teams are going to be ranked at the end of the year....does this get us in? My inclination is no because that record is awful but what an interesting case that would be.

ArizonaXUGrad
01-23-2015, 11:45 AM
No, that record is abysmal and would only get us in if we were in the gauntlet of the B12 or B1G.


Let's just say hypothetically we win all of our home games and lose all of our road games...we would be 18-13 with wins over Georgetown, Providence, Seton Hall and Villanova...I'm guessing that at least if not three of those teams are going to be ranked at the end of the year....does this get us in? My inclination is no because that record is awful but what an interesting case that would be.

LadyMuskie
01-23-2015, 11:50 AM
I can't see us getting in with an 18-13 record and zero quality road wins (or road wins at all regardless of quality). In the past, if we're all being completely honest, we've all complained when teams got in strictly on the back of the league and didn't deserve to be playing in the tournament. We would be that team this year.

drudy23
01-23-2015, 12:27 PM
As of right now, we don't deserve to be in...don't care what the numbers say.

Mrs. Garrett
01-23-2015, 12:28 PM
It is. I wouldn't be shocked if DePaul finishes 5-13. 6-12 is about what I expect.

Wouldn't surprise me if X winds up there as well.

When I watch DePaul it at least looks like they're playing to win. X looks like they're playing not to lose.

kyxu
01-23-2015, 12:29 PM
I keep thinking of that 2010-11 Marquette team that got an 11-seed and manhandled us in the first round en route to the Sweet 16. That team was tough, but had a rather unspectacular record and was not good on the road. I think they were something like 18-13 at the end of the regular season with a 9-9 conference record. They got in by winning 2 in the Big East Tournament though.

Maybe we can be like them.

EDIT: Sometimes I say crazy things.

xukeith
01-23-2015, 12:36 PM
7-5 gets us an 34 rpi

http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Xavier.html

Xville
01-23-2015, 12:41 PM
I keep thinking of that 2010-11 Marquette team that got an 11-seed and manhandled us in the first round en route to the Sweet 16. That team was tough, but had a rather unspectacular record and was not good on the road. I think they were something like 18-13 at the end of the regular season with a 9-9 conference record. They got in by winning 2 in the Big East Tournament though.

Maybe we can be like them.

EDIT: Sometimes I say crazy things.

I like the hope but that Marquette team had a guy by the name of Jimmy butler who is a stud in the nba...there is no one on x's team that comes close to that kind of talent. There was a ton of talent on that Marquette team.. it's just the big east that year was insane.

LA Muskie
01-23-2015, 12:42 PM
It is. I wouldn't be shocked if DePaul finishes 5-13. 6-12 is about what I expect.

If you say so. Maybe you're right. But it would be a significant departure from the last month of performance for them.

Until we find a way to win on the road and get back to taking teams out to the woodshed at home, I'm not presuming we're better than anyone. (Save, perhaps, Creighton.)

On the other hand, we STILL have plenty of time and opportunities to make a season out of this...

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 12:44 PM
We'll be about 15 point favorites over DePaul tomorrow if that makes you feel any better about us being better than them.

kyxu
01-23-2015, 12:46 PM
I like the hope but that Marquette team had a guy by the name of Jimmy butler who is a stud in the nba...there is no one on x's team that comes close to that kind of talent. There was a ton of talent on that Marquette team.. it's just the big east that year was insane.

Yeah, the Big East that year was really, really good.

Mrs. Garrett
01-23-2015, 12:49 PM
We'll be about 15 point favorites over DePaul tomorrow if that makes you feel any better about us being better than them.

No it doesn't

LA Muskie
01-23-2015, 12:55 PM
We'll be about 15 point favorites over DePaul tomorrow if that makes you feel any better about us being better than them.

Well, since we already lost to them at their place I can't take much solace in that. A win at home just evens us up head-to-head. It doesn't trump our loss to them on the road. Nor does it eclipse their two road wins.

bleedXblue
01-23-2015, 01:06 PM
We'll be about 15 point favorites over DePaul tomorrow if that makes you feel any better about us being better than them.

I'm all over +15

gladdenguy
01-23-2015, 01:52 PM
We'll be about 15 point favorites over DePaul tomorrow if that makes you feel any better about us being better than them.

Won't be that high. Even if they do beat Depaul by double digits.....who cares. They can't win on the road. Like Bleed said, its always something with this team. Mack's seat should be warm when this team is sitting home during the NCAA tourney.

Xville
01-23-2015, 01:59 PM
Won't be that high. Even if they do beat Depaul by double digits.....who cares. They can't win on the road. Like Bleed said, its always something with this team. Mack's seat should be warm when this team is sitting home during the NCAA tourney.

if we don't make the tourney, his seat needs to be a little warmer than warm. I understand we switched to a better conference, i understand that some things have happened in the past that has left the cupboard a little bare in terms of upper classmen. However, that would be three years with one tournament game...thats not acceptable any way you slice it.

gladdenguy
01-23-2015, 02:02 PM
And I don't care what anybody says.........the one tourney game was a play in game (where again one of Mack's teams got ass raped in a big game).

Masterofreality
01-23-2015, 02:05 PM
I truly don't have any expectations anymore...other than that I will be at numerous amounts of those last 12 games.

I really do not know what to think about anything regarding this team and staff anymore.

We could win 12 in a row or lose 12 in a row.

Xville
01-23-2015, 02:28 PM
I truly don't have any expectations anymore...other than that I will be at numerous amounts of those last 12 games.

I really do not know what to think about anything regarding this team and staff anymore.

We could win 12 in a row or lose 12 in a row.

well that makes me feel better :)

toledodan
01-23-2015, 02:42 PM
I truly don't have any expectations anymore...other than that I will be at numerous amounts of those last 12 games.

I really do not know what to think about anything regarding this team and staff anymore.

We could win 12 in a row or lose 12 in a row.

i chalked the game up last night as a lost and didn't have expectations in the second half. they showed heart and fire late. i still say the hockey line changes and constant starting lineup switching is hurting the flow. players don't have time to get into the flow of the game.

PMI
01-23-2015, 04:25 PM
I would be shocked if anyone other than Nova beats us at home, and I think we have a fine chance of beating Nova. If we don't win at Creighton and at Marquette, I think we'll be sweating and will really need some magic in New York. I think we have a very reasonable chance of winning at St. John's too. The other road games would very much surprise me if we won. 5-7 is worst case scenario. 9-3 is best case scenario. I'll go with 8-4, either winning at home and at Creighton and Marquette, or losing to Nova but winning at St. John's. Despite some of the issues with this team and the paranoia among its fans, I think they are playing tougher lately and will start shooting better than the downright awfulness we saw last night. We boatrace DePaul at home on Saturday.

On another note, I'm beginning to like this board a lot less. Yea, we've struggled and it's frustrating, but people are freaking crazy here. We have people wondering whether we're better than DePaul? Jesus. We're still a top 40 RPI team. No matter how much we want to bitch and overreact, we are objectively a better team than DePaul. Our bad losses suck but look at theirs. A couple less horrible calls or one made shot down the stretch last night and we are sitting in a perfectly fine spot. You'd think we were Fordham reading some of the bitching around here. I get overreacting during and right after games, but even the next day some of you guys still would rather just think we're terrible and poorly coached rather than looking at the situation for what it is. We were never going to win a national title this year. We can still very much be a team that makes the tournament and competes at a high level.

casualfan
01-23-2015, 04:28 PM
On another note, I'm beginning to like this board a lot less. Yea, we've struggled and it's frustrating, but people are freaking crazy here. We have people wondering whether we're better than DePaul? Jesus. We're still a top 40 RPI team. No matter how much we want to bitch and overreact, we are objectively a better team than DePaul. Our bad losses suck but look at theirs. A couple less horrible calls or one made shot down the stretch last night and we are sitting in a perfectly fine spot. You'd think we were Fordham reading some of the bitching around here. I get overreacting during and right after games, but even the next day some of you guys still would rather just think we're terrible and poorly coached rather than looking at the situation for what it is. We were never going to win a national title this year. We can still very much be a team that makes the tournament and competes at a high level.

Where is the tipping point then? When is it ok to be upset?

We haven't played on the first weekend of the tourney in two years and you could make a good case we're tracking towards not doing it again this year.

So i ask, when is it ok to be frustrated with where we are? If we don't make the tourney again this year can I be upset? Is it 5 years? 7 years? 10 years?

drudy23
01-23-2015, 04:30 PM
Where is the tipping point then? When is it ok to be upset?

We haven't played on the first weekend of the tourney in two years and you could make a good case we're tracking towards not doing it again this year.

So i ask, when is it ok to be frustrated with where we are? If we don't make the tourney again this year can I be upset? Is it 5 years? 7 years? 10 years?

This question will perpetually go unanswered and avoided.

PMI
01-23-2015, 04:30 PM
i chalked the game up last night as a lost and didn't have expectations in the second half. they showed heart and fire late. i still say the hockey line changes and constant starting lineup switching is hurting the flow. players don't have time to get into the flow of the game.

I agree. The lineups and substitutions have been very confusing and I'm concerned that it is disruptive to playing a good 40 minute game with consistent play. I hope whatever experiments are being tried have yielded answers, or whatever messages are being sent were received, but I think it's fairly clear who the guys who need to see the minutes are by now, and there aren't 11 of them. I think this team is closer to being good than most others (or apparently everyone close here) think, but I think some consistency and reason in who we put on the floor and when is a must.

XU 87
01-23-2015, 04:31 PM
I truly don't have any expectations anymore...other than that I will be at numerous amounts of those last 12 games.

I really do not know what to think about anything regarding this team and staff anymore.

We could win 12 in a row or lose 12 in a row.

C'mon MOR, keep the faith!

Lamont Sanford
01-23-2015, 04:31 PM
PMI -

Until we beat DePaul tomorrow, we are not better than DePaul. Need I remind you, they already beat us in Chicago a couple weeks ago. Not to mention they have won a Big East road game this season. Something we cannot claim.

sgarcia
01-23-2015, 04:35 PM
Where is the tipping point then? When is it ok to be upset?

We haven't played on the first weekend of the tourney in two years and you could make a good case we're tracking towards not doing it again this year.

So i ask, when is it ok to be frustrated with where we are? If we don't make the tourney again this year can I be upset? Is it 5 years? 7 years? 10 years?

You can be upset whenever you want. I will be upset if our name isn't called on March 15th. Until then, I'll just ride it out and see what happens.

PMI
01-23-2015, 04:35 PM
Where is the tipping point then? When is it ok to be upset?

We haven't played on the first weekend of the tourney in two years and you could make a good case we're tracking towards not doing it again this year.

So i ask, when is it ok to be frustrated with where we are? If we don't make the tourney again this year can I be upset? Is it 5 years? 7 years? 10 years?

You can be frustrated whenever you want as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure why you would need my blessing to feel a certain way. Doesn't change how annoying it is to me to read everything posted around here. I personally find constant bitching about the team and overreactions about everything that doesn't go our way to be annoying, so it makes me less inclined to want to come here. That's all. All things considered, while I'm also frustrated with some things, I think we are objectively (at least in comparison to the rest of the NCAA) significantly better than most posters here realize. I guess that's a side effect of having been spoiled for a long enough time.

drudy23
01-23-2015, 04:36 PM
You can be frustrated whenever you want as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure why you would need my blessing to feel a certain way. Doesn't change how annoying it is to me to read everything posted around here. I personally find constant bitching about the team and overreactions about everything that doesn't go our way to be annoying, so it makes me less inclined to want to come here. That's all. All things considered, while I'm also frustrated with some things, I think we are objectively (at least in comparison to the rest of the NCAA) significantly better than most posters here realize. I guess that's a side effect of having been spoiled for a long enough time.

And the deflection...never an answer...always a deflection.

And we personally find constant "pie in the sky" optimism with no basis in reality to be just as annoying, especially when there have been obvious disappointing seasons going on year 3. If you're entitled to your bitching, then so are we.

casualfan
01-23-2015, 04:37 PM
This question will perpetually go unanswered.

Exactly. And that's what I don't get. People keep saying things like "well, we're 27 in Kenpom and 37 in RPI, surely we won't be left out with numbers like that".

SMU got left out last year and they were 30th in Kenpom. Missouri State got left out when they were #21 in the RPI. It happens. The committee punishes teams who don't challenge themselves OOC and don't perform well away from home.

Check and check.

The days of getting an auto-bid based solely on computer numbers are over. The committee finally realized teams were gaming the system playing a bunch of middle of the road RPI teams at home to pump up their RPI. Their answer was to put a heavier weight to teams who win on the road and in neutral environments especially against good teams. Reason being you don't get to play a tourney game at home.

PMI
01-23-2015, 04:38 PM
PMI -

Until we beat DePaul tomorrow, we are not better than DePaul. Need I remind you, they already beat us in Chicago a couple weeks ago. Not to mention they have won a Big East road game this season. Something we cannot claim.

OK, and they can't claim our significantly better resume. If losing to a team once means you're automatically worse than them, then everyone is worse than everyone in the NBA and NHL. It doesn't work that way. According to the full body of work, we are objectively a better team than DePaul. According to common sense, that's also the case.

Lamont Sanford
01-23-2015, 04:39 PM
Exactly. And that's what I don't get. People keep saying things like "well, we're 27 in Kenpom and 37 in RPI, surely we won't be left out with numbers like that".

SMU got left out last year and they were 30th in Kenpom. Missouri State got left out when they were #21 in the RPI. It happens. The committee punishes teams who don't challenge themselves OOC and don't perform well away from home.

Check and check.

The days of getting an auto-bid based solely on computer numbers are over. The committee finally realized teams were gaming the system playing a bunch of middle of the road RPI teams at home to pump up their RPI. Their answer was to put a heavier weight to teams who win on the road and in neutral environments especially against good teams. Reason being you don't get to play a tourney game at home.

Winner winner chicken dinner! Well said.

Likely the only home tourney game this team is gonna play in is the NIT first round.

PMI
01-23-2015, 04:41 PM
And the deflection...never an answer...always a deflection.

And we personally find constant "pie in the sky" optimism to be just as annoying, especially when there have been obvious disappointing seasons going going on year 3.


Exactly. And that's what I don't get. People keep saying things like "well, we're 27 in Kenpom and 37 in RPI, surely we won't be left out with numbers like that".

SMU got left out last year and they were 30th in Kenpom. Missouri State got left out when they were #21 in the RPI. It happens. The committee punishes teams who don't challenge themselves OOC and don't perform well away from home.

Check and check.

The days of getting an auto-bid based solely on computer numbers are over. The committee finally realized teams were gaming the system playing a bunch of middle of the road RPI teams at home to pump up their RPI. Their answer was to put a heavier weight to teams who win on the road and in neutral environments especially against good teams. Reason being you don't get to play a tourney game at home.

You guys can have trouble getting it all you want. Drudy probably has trouble putting his pants on the right way. My point is that people here overreact and it's annoying for me to read. That's a fact. If you don't like it, great. May I suggest making a fist and testing how far up your ass you can get it?

Xville
01-23-2015, 04:41 PM
Where is the tipping point then? When is it ok to be upset?

We haven't played on the first weekend of the tourney in two years and you could make a good case we're tracking towards not doing it again this year.

So i ask, when is it ok to be frustrated with where we are? If we don't make the tourney again this year can I be upset? Is it 5 years? 7 years? 10 years?

For me, I am incredibly frustrated with this team...but I am a little bit optimistic for the rest of the season because i have seen some changes on the road the last two games...fire, effort whatever but it has been different.

With that said, it is time for some results. I am going to see how the rest of the season goes before I start freaking out, but if we don't make the tournament this year, then some changes need to be made...not saying that we won't make the tourney, just saying that if it does, then its time for me to freak out and its time for Mack to start looking elsewhere. One tourney game in three years is completely unacceptable...period....it may not have been during Prosser's time, but I think that the program has gotten to the point where it is unacceptable, at least I hope so.

waggy
01-23-2015, 04:41 PM
Winner winner chicken dinner! Well said.


X didn't game the system though. They didn't play exclusively home games, they just didn't perform well on the road. But their performance numbers are reflective of what they've done against the schedule. And the RPI now contains home/road weight.

PMI
01-23-2015, 04:42 PM
Winner winner chicken dinner! Well said.

Likely the only home tourney game this team is gonna play in is the NIT first round.

Well they can't play a home tourney game in the Big East or NCAA so.. yea, I guess you're right.

casualfan
01-23-2015, 04:43 PM
You guys can have trouble getting it all you want. Drudy probably has trouble putting his pants on the right way. My point is that people here overreact and it's annoying for me to read. That's a fact. If you don't like it, great. May I suggest making a fist and testing how far up your ass you can get it?

If it's so annoying then put me on ignore instead of whining about it. No one is forcing you to read my posts.

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 04:44 PM
All things considered, while I'm also frustrated with some things, I think we are objectively (at least in comparison to the rest of the NCAA) significantly better than most posters here realize.

Isn't that a major part of the frustration, though? No way in hell THIS team should be 2-7 away from home. Particularly when only one of those teams we lost to away from home was a particularly good team (Butler is pretty good, Providence is still pretty good but less good, DePaul is atrocious despite their Big East record, UTEP and LBSU are okay and Auburn is mediocre to bad).

drudy23
01-23-2015, 04:44 PM
You guys can have trouble getting it all you want. Drudy probably has trouble putting his pants on the right way. My point is that people here overreact and it's annoying for me to read. That's a fact. If you don't like it, great. May I suggest making a fist and testing how far up your ass you can get it?

And you're tired of reading of what other people are posting? For real? You just mentioned that you're sick of coming here because of the posts and then come out with this gem? WTF does it even mean?

PMI
01-23-2015, 04:45 PM
If it's so annoying then put me on ignore instead of whining about it. No one is forcing you to read my posts.

I would have to put pretty much the whole board on ignore, which is why I've been reading far less lately. That's my point. Good day.

Masterofreality
01-23-2015, 04:46 PM
C'mon MOR, keep the faith!

Oh, I am, but we need to win some of these tight road games.

The thing is that in this league EVERY possession and every play could be the difference in a game. Both the players and the coach have to be on it from the tip. Too many times this year- in road games, but also last week against Marquette, the team comes out looking like they are unprepared or badly prepared for what will hit them. We knew coming into last night, for example, that Providence gave us match up problems all over the floor if we played straight man, and that they shot poorly from out, but there was not even a thought of zone until we fell behind by 13 and were desperate. Why does it take a sledge hammer to the temple to change up when something is obviously not working. And, who the hell is doing the scouting in there and are they even paying attention to what the report says?

Like I've said many times, this is a BIG BOY league and I'm not sure if collectively this group is grown up enough- in all respects.

waggy
01-23-2015, 04:47 PM
DePaul is atrocious despite their Big East record


I know you really want this to be true, but they've proven to have the ability to beat good teams, with some regularly.

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 04:48 PM
No, they suck. I notice you've stopped bugging me about saying McDermott sucks as a coach. Trust me on this one, too.

waggy
01-23-2015, 04:49 PM
No, they suck. I notice you've stopped bugging me about saying McDermott sucks as a coach. Trust me on this one, too.

Haha.

drudy23
01-23-2015, 04:49 PM
I would have to put pretty much the whole board on ignore, which is why I've been reading far less lately. That's my point. Good day.

So what does it tell you if the whole board now has this attitude?

Hmm...couldn't possibly be because we've been disappointing for 3 years and we're sick of watching this dung. Nope...that magic bullet is right around the corner.

xufan2434
01-23-2015, 04:50 PM
And the deflection...never an answer...always a deflection.

And we personally find constant "pie in the sky" optimism with no basis in reality to be just as annoying, especially when there have been obvious disappointing seasons going on year 3. If you're entitled to your bitching, then so are we.

You can be upset now. You can be upset that Mack hasn't lived up to the expectations that Miller created. You can bitch and moan all you want that is fine. This team isn't where we all hoped they would be.

What does that get you? If we say the tipping point is now and you are free to cry about whatever you want, will you be happy? Let's all just be miserable for the last 12 games and complain on a message board and maybe the AD will decide to fire Mack and make changes

waggy
01-23-2015, 04:51 PM
And in my mind it's simply not time for that.

drudy23
01-23-2015, 04:51 PM
Why is it so hard to admit?

PMI
01-23-2015, 04:53 PM
Isn't that a major part of the frustration, though? No way in hell THIS team should be 2-7 away from home. Particularly when only one of those teams we lost to away from home was a particularly good team (Butler is pretty good, Providence is still pretty good but less good, DePaul is atrocious despite their Big East record, UTEP and LBSU are okay and Auburn is mediocre to bad).

Yea, of course. Being 2-7 away from home is very frustrating. Some people deal with their frustration differently than others I guess. I've been frustrated with lots of Xavier teams that ended up figuring it out. I've also been frustrated with a few that didn't. But at the end of the day, if our bitchy fans were fans of the vast majority of other NCAA programs (even some good ones) they would be bitching just as much. It's their right to do so too. I'm just pointing out that while things are frustrating, they aren't necessarily as dismal as a neutral observer might assume if he stumbled upon this board. Didn't mean for it come across as me saying everything is fine. More just an evaluation of the paranoid attitude here. I still see some bright spots on this team and have some optimism about the future, and I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority there. Others don't, and that's cool. I can still call the bitches bitches.

PMI
01-23-2015, 04:55 PM
I imagine drudy as a very frustrated little guy in general. It's OK, buddy. Xavier won't suck forever. Someday this abortion of a top 40 team will be back to an elite level.

waggy
01-23-2015, 04:57 PM
Why is it so hard to admit?


I'm not denying where the program is at. But we are in the midst of the season and I will support this team until they are dead. I like a lot of them, and I want to see them have success.

drudy23
01-23-2015, 04:57 PM
As long as you include yourself as a bitch

Xavier
01-23-2015, 04:57 PM
Isn't that a major part of the frustration, though? No way in hell THIS team should be 2-7 away from home. Particularly when only one of those teams we lost to away from home was a particularly good team (Butler is pretty good, Providence is still pretty good but less good, DePaul is atrocious despite their Big East record, UTEP and LBSU are okay and Auburn is mediocre to bad).

Agreed with the first bold and the overall point of the post- but I do think Providence is good and better than Butler.

drudy23
01-23-2015, 04:57 PM
And being frustrated and airing it out here doesn't equal less support from our end.

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 04:58 PM
Xavier opened -14.5 for tomorrow, by the way. I think we cover that in the first half.

PMI
01-23-2015, 04:59 PM
As long as you include yourself as a bitch

I have no interest in incriminating myself when there are plenty of other bitches here who would gladly do it for me. Have a great weekend, my angry little pal, and try to keep that blood pressure down a bit.

XU 87
01-23-2015, 05:00 PM
Oh, I am, but we need to win some of these tight road games.

The thing is that in this league EVERY possession and every play could be the difference in a game. Both the players and the coach have to be on it from the tip. Too many times this year- in road games, but also last week against Marquette, the team comes out looking like they are unprepared or badly prepared for what will hit them. We knew coming into last night, for example, that Providence gave us match up problems all over the floor if we played straight man, and that they shot poorly from out, but there was not even a thought of zone until we fell behind by 13 and were desperate. Why does it take a sledge hammer to the temple to change up when something is obviously not working. And, who the hell is doing the scouting in there and are they even paying attention to what the report says?

Like I've said many times, this is a BIG BOY league and I'm not sure if collectively this group is grown up enough- in all respects.

Good stuff.

But the man defense was pretty good yesterday. They scored 28 points in the first half. It was the bad offense that sunk us. 2-14 from the three. Bluiett wasn't even close on his.

Lamont Sanford
01-23-2015, 05:06 PM
I thought we were down 32-20 at half yesterday at Providence. We only managed 20 gawddamn points!

xu82
01-23-2015, 05:07 PM
Xavier opened -14.5 for tomorrow, by the way. I think we cover that in the first half.

14.5? Is that the over/under on our first half points? The last couple games we haven't beaten that by much! I'm generally an optimist, but how do we score only about 20 in the first half... back to back? I hope they keep fighting and play with confidence and poise.

Masterofreality
01-23-2015, 05:10 PM
Good stuff.

But the man defense was pretty good yesterday. They scored 28 points in the first half. It was the bad offense that sunk us. 2-14 from the three. Bluiett wasn't even close on his.

They actually scored 32 in the first half.

You know, I sat right behind the X bench and from the floor, it sure didn't look like our man defense was that great. It got both our bigs in early foul trouble that led to a Providence run. There were gaps all over the floor that let guys get close and make us foul. They shot 11 frees in the first half to just 4 for us and they out rebounded us 23-15 with 8 Offensive rebounds. Just like we did, Providence missed a bunch of close in bunnies.

You can't just look at the points per half. We really only played zone in the last 10-11 minutes and I can tell you that from the floor, Our zone was MUCH more effective. Dunn and Providence were totally taken out of their game by it. Why couldn't that same tactic be used in the opening half?

xufan2434
01-23-2015, 05:23 PM
They actually scored 32 in the first half.

You know, I sat right behind the X bench and from the floor, it sure didn't look like our man defense was that great. It got both our bigs in early foul trouble that led to a Providence run. There were gaps all over the floor that let guys get close and make us foul. They shot 11 frees in the first half to just 4 for us and they out rebounded us 23-15 with 8 Offensive rebounds. Just like we did, Providence missed a bunch of close in bunnies.

You can't just look at the points per half. We really only played zone in the last 10-11 minutes and I can tell you that from the floor, Our zone was MUCH more effective. Dunn and Providence were totally taken out of their game by it. Why couldn't that same tactic be used in the opening half?

Agree with all of this.. My guess is that Mack hasn't gone to it more because in practice they haven't been good enough. But it sure looked like they're ready last night. The last time X played Depaul, the press worked great. Actually the last couple times X has pressed, it's worked to their advantage. Some of that may just be the other team playing conservative and protecting the lead, but with as many bodies as X has, I wouldn't mind seeing them use it more often especially tomorrow. The offense has struggled in Big East play because they haven't had as many run outs as they did early in the year. Some forced turnovers would do this team some good.

American X
01-23-2015, 06:33 PM
12 games left? I'm thinking 12 game winning streak.

http://snl.jt.org/caps/characters/MiMy-Pat%20Arnold.jpg

Xville
01-23-2015, 06:43 PM
Gotta keep reminding myself that a season is a lifetime...you know we were 15-4 at this point last year talking about seeding...we then barely made it in. Hopefully the opposite happens this year.

DC Muskie
01-23-2015, 07:30 PM
I just want to add that DePaul is not better than us. They would have to beat us 47 straight times and make 13 Final Fours before I would even consider it. I'm that kind of bitch.

Thanks.

paulxu
01-23-2015, 07:59 PM
You know, I sat right behind the X bench

Ah-ha! Personal upgrade. Good job.

LA Muskie
01-23-2015, 08:44 PM
I would be shocked if anyone other than Nova beats us at home, and I think we have a fine chance of beating Nova. If we don't win at Creighton and at Marquette, I think we'll be sweating and will really need some magic in New York. I think we have a very reasonable chance of winning at St. John's too. The other road games would very much surprise me if we won. 5-7 is worst case scenario. 9-3 is best case scenario. I'll go with 8-4, either winning at home and at Creighton and Marquette, or losing to Nova but winning at St. John's. Despite some of the issues with this team and the paranoia among its fans, I think they are playing tougher lately and will start shooting better than the downright awfulness we saw last night. We boatrace DePaul at home on Saturday.

On another note, I'm beginning to like this board a lot less. Yea, we've struggled and it's frustrating, but people are freaking crazy here. We have people wondering whether we're better than DePaul? Jesus. We're still a top 40 RPI team. No matter how much we want to bitch and overreact, we are objectively a better team than DePaul. Our bad losses suck but look at theirs. A couple less horrible calls or one made shot down the stretch last night and we are sitting in a perfectly fine spot. You'd think we were Fordham reading some of the bitching around here. I get overreacting during and right after games, but even the next day some of you guys still would rather just think we're terrible and poorly coached rather than looking at the situation for what it is. We were never going to win a national title this year. We can still very much be a team that makes the tournament and competes at a high level.
I think it's entirely rational to wonder whether DePaul is better than us right now. I don't care what the RPI says (we all know it's a shitty metric). They are 5-2 in conference. With 2 road wins. And their losses are to 'Nova and Georgetown. On the other hand, we lost to DePaul, we have no road wins, and aside from our Georgetown win we have not looked particularly good in conference.

Do I think DePaul has more talent than us? Hell no. But they are certainly performing better than us right now. The records don't lie.

LA Muskie
01-23-2015, 08:51 PM
OK, and they can't claim our significantly better resume. If losing to a team once means you're automatically worse than them, then everyone is worse than everyone in the NBA and NHL. It doesn't work that way. According to the full body of work, we are objectively a better team than DePaul. According to common sense, that's also the case.

I'm confused about this. We keep talking about how the Big East isn't the A-10; about how it's a gauntlet; about how there are not Fordhams or St. Bonnie's or LaSalles. Hell, even our Coach says it. DePaul sucked in the OOC, no doubt. But they are excelling (comparatively) in the conference schedule. Maybe they got a late start. I don't know. But their recent performance looks a hell of a lot better than ours. We defend our road losses -- "it's really hard to win on the road in the Big East." We have no road wins in conference. They have two. If road wins are the hardest thing to come by in the conference, and if they have two, and if we have zero, then it's pretty hard to say we are absolutely, definitely better than them. At least right now.

LadyMuskie
01-23-2015, 09:01 PM
I'm confused about this. We keep talking about how the Big East isn't the A-10; about how it's a gauntlet; about how there are not Fordhams or St. Bonnie's or LaSalles. Hell, even our Coach says it. DePaul sucked in the OOC, no doubt. But they are excelling (comparatively) in the conference schedule. Maybe they got a late start. I don't know. But their recent performance looks a hell of a lot better than ours. We defend our road losses -- "it's really hard to win on the road in the Big East." We have no road wins in conference. They have two. If road wins are the hardest thing to come by in the conference, and if they have two, and if we have zero, then it's pretty hard to say we are absolutely, definitely better than them. At least right now.

I agree with this. We sound like idiots saying we're better than DePaul when we (a) haven't yet beaten them this year and (b) they've won two more road games than our zero road wins. I know what the RPI says, but we've spent years arguing that the RPI system is flawed.

I don't even know who we all are anymore. We've become those big conference fans we used to hate - full of excuses and blathering on about the RPI and Kenpom. Just win the damn games.

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 09:12 PM
You guys who think DePaul is better than us must be licking their chops on that 14.5 point line tomorrow. Good luck!

LA Muskie
01-23-2015, 09:18 PM
You guys who think DePaul is better than us must be licking their chops on that 14.5 point line tomorrow. Good luck!
I don't know if DePaul is better than us or not. Honestly I don't. But I know they certainly are PERFORMING better than us right now. And, in the end, the record really is the only metric that matters.

I don't bet sports. And I definitely don't bet Xavier games. But I'd take DePaul and the points if I were a betting man. I think we'll win (because it's at home). And we may well blow them out. It wouldn't surprise me in the least. But I wouldn't bet on it.

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 09:20 PM
I don't know if DePaul is better than us or not.

Then it's a good thing you've come here. They're not.

LadyMuskie
01-23-2015, 09:24 PM
I don't know if DePaul is better than us or not. Honestly I don't. But I know they certainly are PERFORMING better than us right now. And, in the end, the record really is the only metric that matters.

I don't bet sports. And I definitely don't bet Xavier games. But I'd take DePaul and the points if I were a betting man. I think we'll win (because it's at home). And we may well blow them out. It wouldn't surprise me in the least. But I wouldn't bet on it.

Yes

LadyMuskie
01-23-2015, 09:24 PM
Then it's a good thing you've come here. They're not.

Their record is better in the Big East this year than ours is.

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 09:45 PM
Their record is better in the Big East this year than ours is.

6-12.

D-West & PO-Z
01-23-2015, 09:59 PM
Yikes, DePaul is better than us? We have gone mad around here. We need a road win stat to set things straight.

mid major
01-23-2015, 10:01 PM
Ah...well that's fine...i mean for me I could care less about the NIT one way or the other...one question though...what is the point of Dee Davis playing 39 minutes last night? He is not good enough to need to play those kinds of minutes. Free Brandon Randolph!

What exactly is Randolph not doing in practice to garner so little playing time? I have nothing against Dee but his guard play is piss poor and he is not in the same class as any of the guards in the BE( Harrison, Gibbs, Smith-Rivera, Dunn, Arcidiaccono, etc). His basketball IQ sucks. If they ever make a movie about Mo McAfee he would be the lead actor.

danaandvictory
01-23-2015, 10:21 PM
You guys who think DePaul is better than us must be licking their chops on that 14.5 point line tomorrow. Good luck!

I don't think DePaul is better and I think X will definitely win tomorrow but I'd take the two touchdowns.

LadyMuskie
01-23-2015, 10:22 PM
DePaul is tied for first place in the Big East as I type this. We are 2 games back. If you can't understand how that makes DePaul a better performing team than us, then I can't help you.

Maybe next we can trot out how as a program we've passed DePaul and the other Big East teams - because I swear to God that's what we sound like.

GoMuskies
01-23-2015, 10:32 PM
I don't think DePaul is better and I think X will definitely win tomorrow but I'd take the two touchdowns.

It's down to 12. That's where I got it.

danaandvictory
01-23-2015, 10:35 PM
It's down to 12. That's where I got it.

That seems more reasonable. I'd like to see it at 9.5 before I took Xavier, though.

D-West & PO-Z
01-23-2015, 10:40 PM
DePaul is tied for first place in the Big East as I type this. We are 2 games back. If you can't understand how that makes DePaul a better performing team than us, then I can't help you.

Maybe next we can trot out how as a program we've passed DePaul and the other Big East teams - because I swear to God that's what we sound like.

You keep using different terminology.

Here is the question: Is Depaul a better team than Xavier? (Not better performing at the moment, not better conference record, etc). Are they a better team than Xavier?

LA Muskie
01-23-2015, 10:55 PM
You keep using different terminology.

Here is the question: Is Depaul a better team than Xavier? (Not better performing at the moment, not better conference record, etc). Are they a better team than Xavier?

I'll throw it right back to you. If performance isn't the #1 factor in the analysis, then what the hell is?

D-West & PO-Z
01-23-2015, 11:05 PM
I'll throw it right back to you. If performance isn't the #1 factor in the analysis, then what the hell is?

We have a better record, more top 100 wins, less sub 100 losses, a significantly better RPI, a significantly higher SOS. We are the better team and the better performing team.

I can agree that right now in Big East play they are performing better than us, but they arent a better team. And overall throughout the entire season they arent better performing either.

Masterofreality
01-24-2015, 08:49 AM
Ah-ha! Personal upgrade. Good job.

Game time upgrade text from an X source that will remain unnamed.

LA Muskie
01-24-2015, 10:29 AM
We have a better record, more top 100 wins, less sub 100 losses, a significantly better RPI, a significantly higher SOS. We are the better team and the better performing team.

I can agree that right now in Big East play they are performing better than us, but they arent a better team. And overall throughout the entire season they arent better performing either.

I think we're sort of talking past each other. I don't quarrel with your first sentence. And I agree we SHOULD be the better team overall AND right now. But I put a lot more stock in recent results because they tend to indicate trajectory. And because that's a big deal to the committee.

LadyMuskie
01-24-2015, 10:35 AM
We have a better record, more top 100 wins, less sub 100 losses, a significantly better RPI, a significantly higher SOS. We are the better team and the better performing team.

I can agree that right now in Big East play they are performing better than us, but they arent a better team. And overall throughout the entire season they arent better performing either.

You've convinced me. Of course, now I'm even more upset that we lost at their place because we are so very clearly the superior program.

D-West & PO-Z
01-24-2015, 10:58 AM
There really is no reason to be upset about the loss if Depaul is truly the better team. We arent good enough to beat better teams at their place right now.

Masterofreality
01-24-2015, 11:09 AM
The great thing about this discussion is that, unlike many of the disputes on this board, it will be settled starting at noon today.

Go X!

Backyard Champ
01-24-2015, 12:01 PM
The great thing about this discussion is that, unlike many of the disputes on this board, it will be settled starting at noon today.

Go X!

Regardless the outcome, I doubt that.

D-West & PO-Z
01-24-2015, 02:12 PM
We are better than DePaul!

Right!?

LA Muskie
01-24-2015, 02:22 PM
We are better than DePaul!

Right!?

You are exhausting. My response is in the other thread.

D-West & PO-Z
01-24-2015, 02:28 PM
You are exhausting. My response is in the other thread.

The response of someone who was wrong yet doesn't want to say it. :)

Enjoy the win! Worry about real life!

waggy
01-24-2015, 02:32 PM
DePaul is better than some people think, I think. They can hit 3's from 5 positions, which is the ultimate offense if you can make it work.

D-West & PO-Z
01-24-2015, 02:34 PM
DePaul is better than some people think, I think. They can hit 3's from 5 positions, which is the ultimate offense if you can make it work.

Yeah that's tough to guard. But when they cool off their offense struggles.

bleedXblue
01-24-2015, 02:35 PM
DePaul is better than some people think, I think. They can hit 3's from 5 positions, which is the ultimate offense if you can make it work.

I like their team and they are a tough matchup. Henry is a nice addition. They will finish near the middle of the pack this year. That's a huge move up for a program that's been in the cellar for so long.

Masterofreality
01-24-2015, 02:36 PM
We need a split in these next two..then really take advantage of a relatively favorable February schedule.

We should shoot better from 3 percentage-wise for sure.

LA Muskie
01-24-2015, 02:38 PM
The response of someone who was wrong yet doesn't want to say it. :)

Enjoy the win! Worry about real life!

We split with them and they are one game up on us in conference. Happy for the win today but I'm not sure it proves your point.

That said, I never said they were better than us. I said it's not obvious we are better than them. Particularly given each team's recent performance.

But make no mistake. I want your premise to be true.

Xville
01-24-2015, 06:14 PM
All I want for the end of January is a road win....effort has been there...time for results this week! Come on x...beat gtown !

XUFan09
01-24-2015, 08:47 PM
All I want for the end of January is a road win....effort has been there...time for results this week! Come on x...beat gtown !
Yup.

Xavier_Musketeers
01-25-2015, 12:41 PM
We need to win at Marquette and Creighton, they both have a terrible record so if we lose both or one of those that could be trouble

PMI
01-25-2015, 01:29 PM
The response of someone who was wrong yet doesn't want to say it. :)

Enjoy the win! Worry about real life!

For real. Why is it so hard for some people to see a clear reality that dangles right in front of their faces? We have had our struggles and there are a lot of teams in our league that you can legitimately argue are better than us. DePaul is not one of them, and they never were, and it's not some subjective close call. I believe LA mentioned something along the lines of how he cares about the things that the selection committee does, which we should. Virtually every single thing on our resume shows that we are objectively a better team than DePaul. It's not very close either. DePaul's resume compared to ours? Talent on the roster? No need to over think this one. Let's worry about some of the legitimate questions this team faces going forward, not this ridiculousness about the impossibility that we are worse than DePaul!