NCAA - "Kid Rape Is A-OK!"

[American X]

Paterno's 111 vacated Penn State wins restored in Sandusky suit deal (http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/penn-state-joe-paterno-wins-ncaa-sanctions-consent-decree-freeh-report-jerry-sandusky-011615)

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — The NCAA agreed Friday to restore 112 football wins it had stripped from Penn State — all but one of which belonged to Joe Paterno — in the Jerry Sandusky child-molestation scandal and to reinstate the venerated late coach as the winningest in major college football history.

"Hopefully, today we'll begin to make right the damage that has been done," said Pennsylvania Senate Majority Leader Jake Corman, who had sued the NCAA with state Treasurer Rob McCord. "Today is a victory for due process, which was unafforded in this case. Today is a victory for the people of Pennsylvania. Today is a victory for Penn State nation. The NCAA has surrendered."

[Cincypunk.org]

Why would people in the state senate waste their time with this??????????????????????????

UGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Muskie]

Why would people in the state senate waste their time with this??????????????????????????

UGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

If you've spent any time in Pennsylvania, the whole state is Penn State crazy. Ohio State has the same kind of reverence in Ohio. Bob Knight had the same kind of reverence in Indiana for a long time.

I never really understood the stripping of wins to begin with.

[DC Muskie]

I never really understood the stripping of wins to begin with.

Those wins were converted into gaining access to kids for Sandusky.

[Frambo]

Those wins were converted into gaining access to kids for Sandusky.

guys like him don't need CFB wins to get their victims. I was totally against punishing the fb program when this came out...unless they could prove that Paterno's staff meetings all ended with a quote like this from JoePa, " let's get this win today boys...it will help Jerry get his rocks off with those boy scouts"

[DC Muskie]

guys like him don't need CFB wins to get their victims. I was totally against punishing the fb program when this came out...unless they could prove that Paterno's staff meetings all ended with a quote like this from JoePa, " let's get this win today boys...it will help Jerry get his rocks off with those boy scouts"

Yeah, this is where you and I are going to disagree. Penn State built a program that was and is worshiped. This type of response is exactly the problem with big time athletics.

"Don't punish the football program."

Why not? The football program allowed this happen. The football program, whether you think it was or not, a vehicle for this predator. This guy had no problem taking kids into the locker room and showering with them. And the program allowed him that continued access, and kept quiet as to not punish the program.

Personally I don't give a shit about football, or basketball players, when boys are being raped under the cover of a very power athletic program.

[Frambo]

Yeah, this is where you and I are going to disagree. Penn State built a program that was and is worshiped. This type of response is exactly the problem with big time athletics.

"Don't punish the football program."

Why not? The football program allowed this happen. The football program, whether you think it was or not, a vehicle for this predator. This guy had no problem taking kids into the locker room and showering with them. And the program allowed him that continued access, and kept quiet as to not punish the program.

Personally I don't give a shit about football, or basketball players, when boys are being raped under the cover of a very power athletic program.

Yes, we will disagree. Sandusky is a piece of shit and HE was responsible for what went down. He would have done that at the YMCA, FRiars club, Penn State locker room, behind the shed, etc...! Anyone who knowingly allowed it to happen should be criminally prosecuted...I'm not up to date - has anyone been found guilty?
Now and then, punishing everyone (and the program encompasses a LOT of people) is ridiculous.

[LadyMuskie]

Yes, we will disagree. Sandusky is a piece of shit and HE was responsible for what went down. He would have done that at the YMCA, FRiars club, Penn State locker room, behind the shed, etc...! Anyone who knowingly allowed it to happen should be criminally prosecuted...I'm not up to date - has anyone been found guilty?
Now and then, punishing everyone (and the program encompasses a LOT of people) is ridiculous.

Pretty sure Paterno died before he could be prosecuted. And 2 or 3 (I can't remember) of the school's administrators are on trial (or will be soon) for their part in covering up what went on. You will also never convince me that other football players/water boys/coaches etc. didn't know what was going on but won't come forward.

But, hey! At least they got to win football games. Woohoo!! Sports forever!

[boozehound]

Yes, we will disagree. Sandusky is a piece of shit and HE was responsible for what went down. He would have done that at the YMCA, FRiars club, Penn State locker room, behind the shed, etc...! Anyone who knowingly allowed it to happen should be criminally prosecuted...I'm not up to date - has anyone been found guilty?
Now and then, punishing everyone (and the program encompasses a LOT of people) is ridiculous.

I'm going to have to disagree. In my opinion the magnitude of Sandusky's crimes are such that I am ok with strict punishment for anybody who played any small role in his having access to those kids. I think that the argument that 'he would have done it anywhere so we shouldn't hold Penn State accountable' is ridiculous. I also don't believe for a second that Paterno and/or the athletic department had no knowledge or suspicion as to what was going on.

[boozehound]

Let's not lose sight of what's important here guys. We shouldn't punish the whole football program just because it was used as a vehicle to molest children for the better part of a decade. That's just not fair.

[DC Muskie]

Yes, we will disagree. Sandusky is a piece of shit and HE was responsible for what went down. He would have done that at the YMCA, FRiars club, Penn State locker room, behind the shed, etc...! Anyone who knowingly allowed it to happen should be criminally prosecuted...I'm not up to date - has anyone been found guilty?
Now and then, punishing everyone (and the program encompasses a LOT of people) is ridiculous.

Yeah, I guess he could have done it in all the places you listed and many others...but the annoying little fact was he didn't. He did it at Penn State. The same place that asked him to retire in 1999, providing him access to the program and a lump sum of around $170,000. That access was a tool that he used to groom his victims. Even after the incident in 1998 where it was reported to Penn State police, along with other incidents in 2004 and 2006 I believe, Sandusky was still allowed access. Now I'm not sure the Friars Club holds the same appeal, but I guess it could.

Curley, Spanierna and Shultz all still have yet to stand trial, although I do know that Curley's trial should be later this year. Paterno of course is dead, so it's hard to prosecute him.

I'm not at all upset that Second Mile has shut its doors. Now that place encompasses some people, not a lot, and certainly not everyone involved there knew about what this predator did. But it's closed. No one cries over that, which is good. And punishing the football program really didn't do much other than make people feel bad because the football team couldn't travel to Biloxi and play bowl games, and the removal of wins during the time period Sandusky was a coach and when he was allowed access to the program.

Personally, I think the punishment for the school didn't really mean much, because who cares about scholarships, bowl games and win totals? And it's not like it would be done for the rest of eternity.

It's certainly ridiculous that sports mean so much that people feel the need to defend it so vigorously simply because they allowed it to be a part of their personal identity. And its always couched with the idea "Sandusky was a piece of shit, BUT, don't punish the football team." To me that's misplaced thinking.

[xu82]

I cannot begin to fathom the hell on earth every single day must be for anyone who turned a blind eye to what was happening there. I'm not saying I feel sorry for them, just that I don't know how I could live with myself. The worst part is there are many shades of gray. The guy who walks in on it is one thing. How about the peon who has an inkling or just a funny feeling about things? Maybe they heard a rumor that seemed far fetched. I know, protect the kids first and foremost. Life's not always that clear. What if you're the new guy and you feel the source is completely unreliable. I brought an ethics professor in one time as a speaker and he started with obvious right/wrong scenarios where there was 100% agreement. He gradually moved on to far shadier questions where no one agreed on anything. (He did it better than I did!)

As for the program, I don't know who knew what and when. Or who should have known and when. In general, it would have to be known well up in the program to punish the football team. I'd prefer to think smart people couldn't let that happen, but the world can be a very disappointing place.

EDIT: I readily admit to not knowing all the facts in this situation. I really tried to avoid them as I found it too sickening to follow. My sister-in-law worked in high level fundraising at PSU at the time and her life got much more difficult. She eventually transferred to another position.

[DC Muskie]

I'm pretty good friends with the niece of one of the administrators accused. We really don't talk about it much, but on those rare occasions, I can tell you that this person lives a very isolated life. He and his wife moved away from State College. Then when they go out to eat, they usually have to travel an additional 45 minutes to be sure no one will recognize them. Work is difficult to land, and in general life is pretty hard.

It's a hard lesson to learn and live with when presented with information, and nothing at all or not enough was done to bring this monster down. All we can do is pray for everyone involved and if, God forbid, we are ever put in that position that we will be smart and not intimated by man made institutions.

[xu82]

All we can do is pray for everyone involved and if, God forbid, we are ever put in that position that we will be smart and not intimated by man made institutions.

Even horrible situations are opportunites to learn.

[Frambo]

Pretty sure Paterno died before he could be prosecuted. And 2 or 3 (I can't remember) of the school's administrators are on trial (or will be soon) for their part in covering up what went on. You will also never convince me that other football players/water boys/coaches etc. didn't know what was going on but won't come forward.

But, hey! At least they got to win football games. Woohoo!! Sports forever!

I'm not saying it to protect Penn State football. I'm saying it because it was a rush to judgement that eventually hurt people that were innocent. Those guilty deserve punishment, those not involved shouldn't be punished so that society gets it's pound of flesh.

[xu82]

I'm not saying it to protect Penn State football. I'm saying it because it was a rush to judgement that eventually hurt people that were innocent. Those guilty deserve punishment, those not involved shouldn't be punished so that society gets it's pound of flesh.

That was well said, and hard to argue with in my mind. (I'm sure others will find a way.) The ultimate punishment for the guilty is not something that happens in a court room or prison or anywhere else on this planet (as Sandusky will learn), but it's all we've got for now.

[LadyMuskie]

I'm not saying it to protect Penn State football. I'm saying it because it was a rush to judgement that eventually hurt people that were innocent. Those guilty deserve punishment, those not involved shouldn't be punished so that society gets it's pound of flesh.

By those not involved do you mean the fans?

[Frambo]

And its always couched with the idea "Sandusky was a piece of shit, BUT, don't punish the football team." To me that's misplaced thinking.

and I still think it's misplaced thinking to punish anyone not involved. I'm not thinking of the football team as an individual entity, I'm thinking of the individuals affected. The punishments are surely being lifted and it will become a moot point, but I will in the future still protest when I think that those innocent will be punished along with the guilty.

[Frambo]

By those not involved do you mean the fans?


fans (I guess), players, concession workers, parking attendants, food cart owner who might lose some business, charities that might lose donations for being connected to PSU football....just off the top of my head, but I'm sure there could be more involved.

[Kahns Krazy]

fans (I guess), players, concession workers, parking attendants, food cart owner who might lose some business, charities that might lose donations for being connected to PSU football....just off the top of my head, but I'm sure there could be more involved.

Or maybe it's a reminder that all of those people should demand that they root for or work for or are affiliated with program of integrity. This kind of mentality is what leads to the decision to cover up or ignore allegations in the first place.

[LadyMuskie]

Or maybe it's a reminder that all of those people should demand that they root for or work for or are affiliated with program of integrity. This kind of mentality is what leads to the decision to cover up or ignore allegations in the first place.

This. Exactly.

[Juice]

Or maybe it's a reminder that all of those people should demand that they root for or work for or are affiliated with program of integrity. This kind of mentality is what leads to the decision to cover up or ignore allegations in the first place.

I say punish the whole damn program. Their fans reactions to the punishment and the reversal of the punishment have shown that their fans are bat shit insane. They act like they are the ones the criminal acts happened to because their precious football team had to "suffer" a little. I hope for only bad things to happen to that university, that program, and that town.

[LadyMuskie]

fans (I guess), players, concession workers, parking attendants, food cart owner who might lose some business, charities that might lose donations for being connected to PSU football....just off the top of my head, but I'm sure there could be more involved.

I would love to hear how PSU having to vacate wins in any way shape or form affected the concession stand workers, the parking attendants, or the food cart owner. Did they have to return their paychecks and profits from those vacated wins? Let's not forget, many people didn't stop attending PSU football games after these heinous stories emerged. Many people thought nothing that bad happened, so it should be business as usual and for them it was.

As for the charities and companies that lost money, that's the risk you take when doing business. It's like when P&G hired Tiger Woods to be its spokesman for some of its brands. It sucked for P&G when it turned out that Tiger is a perv, but that's a risk they took and for awhile it worked out okay.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I would love to hear how PSU having to vacate wins in any way shape or form affected the concession stand workers, the parking attendants, or the food cart owner. Did they have to return their paychecks and profits from those vacated wins? Let's not forget, many people didn't stop attending PSU football games after these heinous stories emerged. Many people thought nothing that bad happened, so it should be business as usual and for them it was.

As for the charities and companies that lost money, that's the risk you take when doing business. It's like when P&G hired Tiger Woods to be its spokesman for some of its brands. It sucked for P&G when it turned out that Tiger is a perv, but that's a risk they took and for awhile it worked out okay.

I was wondering the exact same thing.

[xu82]

I don't care much about vacated wins, but I see where some would. I don't give a rip about that program personally. Didn't they also lose scholorships? That just hurts more kids who don't get to go to their dream school because of something that they had nothing to do with. I don't see how that helps. Fire people, convict people, fine the school maybe. Don't hurt more kids.

[DC Muskie]

Or maybe it's a reminder that all of those people should demand that they root for or work for or are affiliated with program of integrity. This kind of mentality is what leads to the decision to cover up or ignore allegations in the first place.

This is exactly why Second Mile closed.

I don't think Penn State should have given the death penalty, but the way the community has acted in the face of limited punishment, it shows you how completely unhealthy their relationship with the football program is. Take away wins, no bowls, fine them and limit scholarships. In five years, you get your bowls back, and your scholarships back.

They couldn't take that. They helped create this atmosphere and they couldn't take the punishment that really, truly, would never affect their lives at all, minus some football glory for five years. But they don't see the big picture.

[DC Muskie]

82's sister in law worked in fundraising. She was in a no win situation. People probably didn't want to give because of what happened, and others probably didn't want to give because they feel PSU shouldn't have backed down.

Really that situation has to do with the fact that the incidents happened, not that wins were vacated.

Just a question, are you upset that Second Mile closed?

[xu82]

82's sister in law worked in fundraising. She was in a no win situation.

As a side note, she's pretty bright (Vanderbilt with an MBA) and is very hard working and turned it into a job where she takes college kids to Europe for a couple weeks at a time. Not a bad gig if you can get it. Beats trying to sell "but not all our coaches rape children".

[LadyMuskie]

As a side note, she's pretty bright (Vanderbilt with an MBA) and is very hard working and turned it into a job where she takes college kids to Europe for a couple weeks at a time. Not a bad gig if you can get it. Beats trying to sell "but not all our coaches rape children".

I want to be your sister in law when I grow up.

[bleedXblue]

This is pretty simple. The NCAA was clearly trying to send a message to Penn State and other university's that if they don't handle these types of situations better, the penalties are severe. It would appear PSU is getting off pretty easily and I think that's a complete injustice.

[Juice]

These people are clueless. Burn the campus down.
http://yhoo.it/15r2JtK