XAVIER vs VILLANOVA

[XUOWNSUC]

Our best lineup is Dee, Abel, Macura, Jalen, and Stain.

Agreed. However, I wouldn't be opposed to starting Blueitt and bringing JP off the bench as our 6th man who brings "energy" kind of like Posey did back in the day.

I also wouldn't mind it if Farr's minutes decreased.

[BandAid]

I agree Jalen gives us the best opportunity to win, but I think he doesn't start in order to protect him from foul trouble - and maybe from fighting someone.

[Lamont Sanford]

Amen regarding the center hedging. I've hated this defenisive tactic for years!!! Stainbrook is too slow to have to try and hustle back into position for this to be effective.

To me, Mack's new starting five made little to no sense whatsoever. I would think by mid-January that he would know how to pick a starting five. His coaching has been just as frustrating as our play on the road.

Finally, Mack must have a big ass doghouse since it seems like everyone but Dee, Stainbrook and Blueitt are in it!

[bleedXblue]

I said it last night and I will say it one more time. Chris Mack is going to lose some players and his entire team if he keeps this up. Remy playing 9 minutes against one of the best offensive teams in the Big East is ridiculous. Way to send a message to the one player IMHO thats played pretty darn consistently on both ends of the floor. He's our best damn defender. Send the message in another way. Randolph I'm not as concerned with, but all it takes is 3-4 guys to turn their back on you and you're in trouble.

Also, how many damn games are we going to watch getting pummeled with this thing purportedly called our "defense". Change some of the scheme. Change the whole damn thing....it doesn't matter at this point. But for the love of God, open your damn eyes and realize it isn't working.

[drudy23]

Amen regarding the center hedging. I've hated this defenisive tactic for years!!! Stainbrook is too slow to have to try and hustle back into position for this to be effective.

To me, Mack's new starting five made little to no sense whatsoever. I would think by mid-January that he would know how to pick a starting five. His coaching has been just as frustrating as our play on the road.

Finally, Mack must have a big ass doghouse since it seems like everyone but Dee, Stainbrook and Blueitt are in it!

Center hedging has to stop. We need a new defensive philosophy - simply giving up way too many threes. In saying that, does a team ever have a bad shooting game against us on the road? It seems the law of averages would catch up eventually. Everyone shoots lights out against us it seems.

Mack's starting five made some sense. I have no issue with JP starting - Austin was a head-scratcher. But then again, if coach wants to send a message, maybe it works?

[Masterofreality]

Amen regarding the center hedging. I've hated this defenisive tactic for years!!! Stainbrook is too slow to have to try and hustle back into position for this to be effective.

I believe it depends on the other team. You have to hedge against some guards like Harrison and DSR against ball screens. Nova doesn't have that type of guard so it was unnecessary. This goes back to adjusting to what the other side does and not just "Doing what we do".

Finally. Look Villanova is very good. No reason to jump of the ledge after losing a road game there, but the messages coming out of the Cintas Center practice court and press room had better improve, because there sure seems to be a lot of dysfunction right now.

[bleedXblue]

I believe it depends on the other team. You have to hedge against some guards like Harrison and DSR against ball screens. Nova doesn't have that type of guard so it was unnecessary. This goes back to adjusting to what the other side does and not just "Doing what we do".

Finally. Look Villanova is very good. No reason to jump of the ledge after losing a road game there, but the messages coming out of the Cintas Center practice court and press room had better improve, because there sure seems to be a lot of dysfunction right now.

Mack's job is to keep this team together and keep his expectations consistent. Right now, If I'm a player I'm really confused. No wonder why we looked lost most of the time.

[drudy23]

He had to do something to try to light a fire. We all agree something had to change. We'll likely see a different starting line-up for the next 10 games.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Mack's job is to keep this team together and keep his expectations consistent. Right now, If I'm a player I'm really confused. No wonder why we looked lost most of the time.

Its easy to be confused when you are not on the team and pretending to have the midnset of the player.

Things are messed up and stuff has to change and Mack has to do a better job, but we have no idea if the players are mad, confused, dont know wahts going on, etc because we arent in the practices every day. We have ZERO ide what Mack is telling these guys or what expectations he has laid down. Guys like Randolph might know exactly why they arent playing and realize it was of their own doing and know they have to do better. We really dont know.

[nuts4xu]

One of my main criticisms of Coach Mack is his stubbornness and unwillingness to change. Last night, he finally shook some things up. It's too early to see if the message was received, and I don't know if all the right changes were made.

In a game I didn't expect to win, I understand the reasons he made changes now. I don't like some of them, and would like to see even more. But what I witnessed in the second half was much more reflective of what I had hoped to see from this team.

I don't know if we will ever stop hedging....I don't know if we will ever abandon the Pack Line and go strict man to man...but schematically, I would still like to see Mack adapt his approach to his opponents.

I get the "we do what we do" mentality, but good coaches take advantage of what the other teams give them. Good coaches protect their own deficiencies when facing equal or better talent that can expose these defficiencies.

I am squarely behind Chris Mack, and the best thing for this program short and long term, is for Chris Mack to evolve and become a better coach in his approach, his in game decisions, and in general. No one wants to have to flush him, and start over with someone new that could take years to put THEIR system into place. I believe things can change. I watched Matta and Miller both evolve, learn through their mistakes, and avoided duplicating the same mistakes later in their career. This is my hope for Coach Mack.

The entire team and staff needs to improve, and we still have a lot of time this season. The season is a lifetime.

[xufan2434]

A lot of mixed emotions after this one..

First of all, Mack made changes and made some questionable decisions I will say. But how many people were saying yesterday that if it's only going to be 1 or 2 changes, then they'd be disappointed? I agree it was a bit drastic but you can't have it both ways.

Anyway, Villanova shot absolutely lights out in that first half. Majority of those were contested as well. I thought X did a better job in the 2nd half but they really struggle on focusing for the full 35 seconds. Villanova was forcing them to rotate and X was doing a good job up until the last one. There were a lot of times where 4 guys got caught guarding 3 players with 7 seconds left and Nova found the open guy for the 3. It usually stopped X's momentum too. Those are great teaching lessons especially for the young guys on the road against the 5th best team in the nation.

I know X didn't win and were getting killed in that first half. But Nova was running a clinic. And I don't understand how everyone was saying before the game that X didn't stand a chance, and then get all mad when they lost? I thought they played hard which is all I asked for. I thought Dee showed some real guts not backing down to those guys and holding his own. Maybe that 2nd half is what gets Jalen going for the rest of the year? JP proved he belongs on the floor even with his bad defense. I don't know what was going on with Remy but if X didn't stand a chance as so many said going into to the game, then at least the other guys got great experience in the toughest game they'll play all year. Remy will be ready to go Saturday.

[LadyMuskie]

One of my main criticisms of Coach Mack is his stubbornness and unwillingness to change. Last night, he finally shook some things up. It's too early to see if the message was received, and I don't know if all the right changes were made.

In a game I didn't expect to win, I understand the reasons he made changes now. I don't like some of them, and would like to see even more. But what I witnessed in the second half was much more reflective of what I had hoped to see from this team.

I don't know if we will ever stop hedging....I don't know if we will ever abandon the Pack Line and go strict man to man...but schematically, I would still like to see Mack adapt his approach to his opponents.

I get the "we do what we do" mentality, but good coaches take advantage of what the other teams give them. Good coaches protect their own deficiencies when facing equal or better talent that can expose these defficiencies.

I am squarely behind Chris Mack, and the best thing for this program short and long term, is for Chris Mack to evolve and become a better coach in his approach, his in game decisions, and in general. No one wants to have to flush him, and start over with someone new that could take years to put THEIR system into place. I believe things can change. I watched Matta and Miller both evolve, learn through their mistakes, and avoided duplicating the same mistakes later in their career. This is my hope for Coach Mack.

The entire team and staff needs to improve, and we still have a lot of time this season. The season is a lifetime.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing I keep coming back to is the question of how long do we wait for the learning curve or evolution of the coaching staff to kick in? 1 season? 3? He's not a rookie anymore. Some of these issues are not okay for a head coach in his 6th season. If he didn't have a degree from X, I'm not sure we'd all be so forgiving.

[sgarcia]

I was fortunate enough to sit behind MOR last night and I'm pretty sure we both can't stand 1) Hedging 30 feet from the basket and 2) Dee kind of trying to double down low and leaving his man wide open for a 3 when doubling is unncessary. JP played well OFFENSIVELY but honestly he might be the worst defender on this team. He was so lost on defense and if he's out there you need to have your better defenders (Remy) out there at the same time. I don't know what kind of message Mack was trying to send and I hope whatever it is he doesn't start to lose any of the players or the team for that matter. It seems that whatever defensive strategy we try to implore fails miserably. I don't know where we go from here. We'll probably beat Marquette by double digits on Saturday but then we have another road game. I guess for now we need to keep winning our home games and have something click on the road.

[xufan2434]

I was fortunate enough to sit behind MOR last night and I'm pretty sure we both can't stand 1) Hedging 30 feet from the basket and 2) Dee kind of trying to double down low and leaving his man wide open for a 3 when doubling is unncessary. JP played well OFFENSIVELY but honestly he might be the worst defender on this team. He was so lost on defense and if he's out there you need to have your better defenders (Remy) out there at the same time. I don't know what kind of message Mack was trying to send and I hope whatever it is he doesn't start to lose any of the players or the team for that matter. It seems that whatever defensive strategy we try to implore fails miserably. I don't know where we go from here. We'll probably beat Marquette by double digits on Saturday but then we have another road game. I guess for now we need to keep winning our home games and have something click on the road.

Dee, Myles, Larry, and everyone else who was leaving their man to help when Nova had the ball in the paint was so damn frustrating. It seemed to always happen right when X cut it to 10. I don't get it. Matt was usually bodied up on the bigs in good position and Nova hadn't done anything in the paint all night. Force em to make a play down there. That's where Nova isn't comfortable. That would be my biggest complaint in terms of the defense.

[drudy23]

I was fortunate enough to sit behind MOR last night and I'm pretty sure we both can't stand 1) Hedging 30 feet from the basket and 2) Dee kind of trying to double down low and leaving his man wide open for a 3 when doubling is unncessary. .

It wasn't just Dee. Myles Davis and Austin were doing it too. I was yelling for them to stop for 2 hours from my couch. They didn't hear me.

[sgarcia]

I probably singled Dee out because he played the most minutes and seemed to double/try to double the most. Apologies for not ripping into the other that did this.

[LA Muskie]

Our best lineup is Dee, Abel, Macura, Jalen, and Stain.
I agree.

[Xavier]

Adam Morrison 2.0

Not a chance. Morrison came in 2nd in POY votes. You really think JP has that ability?

[Juice]

Not a chance. Morrison came in 2nd in POY votes. You really think JP has that ability?

You weren't aware of the rule that you can only compare white players with other white players and black players with other black players?

[bleedXblue]

Its easy to be confused when you are not on the team and pretending to have the midnset of the player.

Things are messed up and stuff has to change and Mack has to do a better job, but we have no idea if the players are mad, confused, dont know wahts going on, etc because we arent in the practices every day. We have ZERO ide what Mack is telling these guys or what expectations he has laid down. Guys like Randolph might know exactly why they arent playing and realize it was of their own doing and know they have to do better. We really dont know.

Of course we don't know these things. 90% of the info posted here is opinion, conjecture and just pure speculation. Lets not kid ourselves.

So I ask, do you really think we have a team that's 100% on the same page and we don't have any frustrated guys right now?

[BandAid]

So I ask, do you really think we have a team that's 100% on the same page and we don't have any frustrated guys right now?

I think Randolph should be negatively frustrated about his playing time and depressed.
I think Abell should be positively frustrated about his playing time and motivated.
I think Bluiett should be frustrated with his personal performance based on his own expectations for himself.
I think Stain and Dee as seniors should be frustrated with the team's performance and be feeling a sense of urgency.

Am I missing anyone? Maybe Jimmy because his playing time has been cut? Myles? I think the team should be frustrated as a whole, but only the aforementioned should be frustrated about their individual situation.

[xufan2434]

Of course we don't know these things. 90% of the info posted here is opinion, conjecture and just pure speculation. Lets not kid ourselves.

So I ask, do you really think we have a team that's 100% on the same page and we don't have any frustrated guys right now?

No, but it's that way for every team. There's always going to be guys that are frustrated with their role and how the coach is running things. But to what extent, is going to be unknown. Bottom line, is how this team responds Saturday will say a decent amount. But how next Thursday goes at Providence will say even more. I fear it's going to start getting in these kids heads that they can't win a road game, the same way a golfer gets the yips. If we win next Thursday, then maybe what Chris did worked. If not, then it will be all for nothing.

[XU 87]

Adam Morrison 2.0

If JP also becomes payer of the year and high first round draft pick, then I'm all for your comparison.

[xudash]

Someone in the live chat mentioned how "defeated" Mack looked last night in the second half. To that, I say this:

Sometimes, teams just hit shots and are "feeling it". There's nothing you can do at that point. You weather the storm, hope that the well goes dry for them, and pray that when that happens, there's enough time and you've done enough to keep it competitive. I think that happened in the second half with the run that X went on, but Nova is a nasty, good team.

Those who say there are no such things as moral victories are just plain wrong. We have over half the Big East schedule to play. We came back and gave the best team in our conference a lot to handle, especially int he second half. The team didn't quit. I don't know if there were a lot of people out there who reasonably expected us to win this game. I don't think you COULD reasonably expect Xavier to win this game.

It could have been a lot worse. It could have been an effortless shit-show like at DePaul and Butler. It wasn't. There's something to actually build on. Some of you folks just enjoy complaining. Some of you actually look at something and can find what to work with. I prefer to be grouped in with the latter.

+1

The beginning of that game was a storm in Nova's favor, regardless of anything we threw at them.

[nasdadjr]

Yes they would play on the offensive side of the ball and not the defensive side first of all because offense is more fun to play and offense does not require all five players to give 100% effort the entire shot clock. Defense requires 5 guys working together for 35 seconds then being able to get a rebound. With how bad Xavier is at playing defense and how bad they have been rebounding especially since we are the biggest team in the Big East by far, that is my justification for saying that the players are not wanting to give Mack their all. I could be 100% wrong but when I see the biggest team getting out hustled out rebounded and overpowered on one side of the floor it tends to make me think that.

[xufan2434]

When it comes to loose balls and rebounding last night... It's pretty plain and simple that the guards do not box out at all. Watch the tape. Mack has already addressed this numerous times and have practiced on it. I don't think this is something where the players just simply aren't giving it all for the coach. If that's what's really happening then I would question the player as a competitor himself. At some point that has to kick in no matter what the coach is doing. And they can run the drills all they want but until the players decide they want it more, there's nothing Mack can do. You can't teach aggressiveness.

[XUOHTX]

Did we win?

[vee4xu]

Did we win?

Yes, X won the second half. :shocked:

[GuyFawkes38]

I think I've lost hope in our D. If we are going to win, it's probably going to be from great offens play.

IMHO, Bluiett is the "x" factor. We know what we are getting from Stainbrook (pretty good) and Dee Davis (at times frustrating, but not bad). Bluiett has been wildly inconsistent. When he plays well we win and vice versa. That's lots of pressure on a freshman, but that's just how this team is constructed.

[xu82]

We all knew prior to the season that we were going to be depending upon a lot of young guys and young guys struggle on D - as do some with more experience, unfortunately. I felt this game was almost a throw away game to shake guys up. Our chances of winning on their court were slim at best. I still have high hopes for the intermediate and long term futures, but this sure is frustrating (even if it shouldn't be surprising).

[xudash]

I understand excuses aren't welcome, nor should they be, but a little perspective should be allowed: isn't this Nova team chuck full of players that have been playing together now for 4 years? At the very least, they're a senior-laden and very experienced squad that was playing at home. Whether you think they take their feet off the gas pedal or not, we did put up a fight in the second half.

[XU 87]

I understand excuses aren't welcome, nor should they be, but a little perspective should be allowed: isn't this Nova team chuck full of players that have been playing together now for 4 years? At the very least, they're a senior-laden and very experienced squad that was playing at home. Whether you think they take their feet off the gas pedal or not, we did put up a fight in the second half.

I think Nova has a great team. I didn't expect to win. But it would have been nice to have put up at least a bit of a fight. This game was essentially over at the start when they got up 11-2. (I realize X made a couple of runs, but the game was never really close after that).

[xu82]

I understand excuses aren't welcome, nor should they be, but a little perspective should be allowed: isn't this Nova team chuck full of players that have been playing together now for 4 years? At the very least, they're a senior-laden and very experienced squad that was playing at home. Whether you think they take their feet off the gas pedal or not, we did put up a fight in the second half.

That doesn't sound like excuses to me, it sounds like a description of the situation. I hope the point has been made about what is needed to get minutes. That lesson could pay off long term if it sticks. I agree that they didn't quit and that's a very good sign (though Nova easily rebuilt the lead). Some times you lose to the #5 team in the country on their court. It can happen to much better teams than X. If you learn and grow it can still be a good thing.

[XUOHTX]

Yes, X won the second half. 😎

Yes!!

I actually tweeted that right when the game ended. So the game was a step in the right direction then, right?

[nasdadjr]

It's not the team they played as to why I am upset with this team its the manner in which they have lost every game this season. Beating a team by 30 then losing to that same team 2 weeks later? Giving up 14 point leads with 12 minutes to go? Getting out hustled and out rebounded by smaller teams? Giving up over 80 points a game against any team worth a damn? This has never been Xavier basketball and I don't like what I am seeing this team become.

When I turn on the tv and watch teams like Rutgers playing Maryland tough, seeing Iowa able to go to Ohio State and do what they do and hell even see a team like NJIT going to Michigan and not being intimidated by the environment or the opponent it really makes you wonder what the hell is going on at Xavier right now.

[Xavier]

Never once have I felt that Xavier has been intimidated this season.

[Masterofreality]

Never once have I felt that Xavier has been intimidated this season.

I agree with this.

We just can't intimidate anybody else with our defense.

[profson]

[QUOTE=nasdadjr;478546]Yes they would play on the offensive side of the ball and not the defensive side first of all because offense is more fun to play and offense does not require all five players to give 100% effort the entire shot clock. Defense requires 5 guys working together for 35 seconds then being able to get a rebound. With how bad Xavier is at playing defense and how bad they have been rebounding especially since we are the biggest team in the Big East by far, that is my justification for saying that the players are not wanting to give Mack their all. I could be 100% wrong but when I see the biggest team getting out hustled out rebounded and overpowered on one side of the floor it tends to make me think that.[/QUO

Not true. Kenpom measures Effective Height, based on actual minutes played. Providence is by far the biggest BE team (5th in the country). Creighton is also significantly bigger, then XU just ahead of Georgetown. And that is with Dee listed at 6'0" (ha!) and each of Stainbrook, Farr and Reynolds at 6'10" (odd since Stainbrook is clearly taller than Farr and Farr is clearly taller Reynolds).

[nasdadjr]

Allow me to clarify and say the biggest team by far of the teams in the big east we have played so far. We have not played providence or Creighton yet so that is a moot point

[Xavier]

Will you clarify which games or environments you felt Xavier was intimidated by?

[Muskeagle]

[QUOTE=nasdadjr;478546]Yes they would play on the offensive side of the ball and not the defensive side first of all because offense is more fun to play and offense does not require all five players to give 100% effort the entire shot clock. Defense requires 5 guys working together for 35 seconds then being able to get a rebound. With how bad Xavier is at playing defense and how bad they have been rebounding especially since we are the biggest team in the Big East by far, that is my justification for saying that the players are not wanting to give Mack their all. I could be 100% wrong but when I see the biggest team getting out hustled out rebounded and overpowered on one side of the floor it tends to make me think that.[/QUO

Not true. Kenpom measures Effective Height, based on actual minutes played. Providence is by far the biggest BE team (5th in the country). Creighton is also significantly bigger, then XU just ahead of Georgetown. And that is with Dee listed at 6'0" (ha!) and each of Stainbrook, Farr and Reynolds at 6'10" (odd since Stainbrook is clearly taller than Farr and Farr is clearly taller Reynolds).


Matt must wear the tallest shoes, then Farr, then Reynolds.

[Art Vandelay]

Not a chance. Morrison came in 2nd in POY votes. You really think JP has that ability?

maybe not right at the moment, but I see no reason he couldn't turn into that kind of player down the road......why not?

[Art Vandelay]

You weren't aware of the rule that you can only compare white players with other white players and black players with other black players?

yeah that's what it is :rolleyes:

[LA Muskie]

maybe not right at the moment, but I see no reason he couldn't turn into that kind of player down the road......why not?

Aside from being white I don't see a single likeness between Morrison and JP.

[Art Vandelay]

Aside from being white I don't see a single likeness between Morrison and JP.

hmm two skinny, awkward, shaggy haired kids with the potential to shoot the lights out from anywhere on the floor.....yeah there's no similarity at all.

c'mon people, you all act like Morrison was never a freshman....he didn't come out of HS averaging 28 pts a game, he only scored 11 per as a freshman, 36% behind the arc with plenty of turnovers.

[LA Muskie]

Maybe not. But he did come out of HS as a 6'8" forward...

[Art Vandelay]

Maybe not. But he did come out of HS as a 6'8" forward...

more like 6'6 listed at 6'8, but whatever.......the comparison isn't anywhere near as off the mark as you're trying to make it out to be, no matter how tall he was.

come back and talk to me after JP's Jr year and we'll see how he's progressed with three seasons of college basketball under his belt.....will he avg 28 per like Adam did? probably not, but that doesn't mean they won't be similar players.

[LA Muskie]

OK buddy. You run with that...

Even if JP averages 28 it won't in the least bit remind me of Morrison. Except that he would be a white guy who scores a lot.

[xuwin]

more like 6'6 listed at 6'8, but whatever.......the comparison isn't anywhere near as off the mark as you're trying to make it out to be, no matter how tall he was.

come back and talk to me after JP's Jr year and we'll see how he's progressed with three seasons of college basketball under his belt.....will he avg 28 per like Adam did? probably not, but that doesn't mean they won't be similar players.

I agree with you. By his junior year I could easily see JP averaging 15 -20 points per game. He will also be an outstanding rebounding guard with outstanding passing abilities. By his hustle alone I think he will develop into an above average defensive player too. He also plays with a lot of confidence now which sometimes gets him in trouble but will be a great asset down the road.

[waggy]

Morrison was (and probably still is) a foul mouthed, racist, asshole.

So hopefully JP is nothing like him.

[LA Muskie]

Morrison was (and probably still is) a foul mouthed, racist, asshole.

So hopefully JP is nothing like him.

There is that...

[LA Muskie]

I agree with you. By his junior year I could easily see JP averaging 15 -20 points per game. He will also be an outstanding rebounding guard with outstanding passing abilities. By his hustle alone I think he will develop into an above average defensive player too. He also plays with a lot of confidence now which sometimes gets him in trouble but will be a great asset down the road.

First, 15 ppg in college is a lot. It would lead most teams in scoring. In fact of the 10 Big East teams only 5 have players averaging more than 14 ppg. Stretch it to 20 and there are only 2. Hell, there are only 18 in all of D1 averaging 20 ppg or more.

So while I agree that JP could mature into a consistent scorer, I think the notion that will ever average 15-20 (the difference in that range being huge) is pretty far-fetched.

[profson]

First, 15 ppg in college is a lot. It would lead most teams in scoring. In fact of the 10 Big East teams only 5 have players averaging more than 14 ppg. Stretch it to 20 and there are only 2. Hell, there are only 18 in all of D1 averaging 20 ppg or more.

So while I agree that JP could mature into a consistent scorer, I think the notion that will ever average 15-20 (the difference in that range being huge) is pretty far-fetched.

The chances are increased as he is what is euphemistically called a volume shooter. Last I looked he had the highest "usage rate" for minutes played.

[LA Muskie]

The chances are increased as he is what is euphemistically called a volume shooter. Last I looked he had the highest "usage rate" for minutes played.

Tell yourself what you want. He's not likely to average 15-20 ppg in a Xavier uniform. Nor do I suspect we will need him to do so.

[Xavier]

maybe not right at the moment, but I see no reason he couldn't turn into that kind of player down the road......why not?

At this rate you might as well point to every decent Freshman white kid and say he has the ability to be Morrison.

[xu82]

At this rate you might as well point to every decent Freshman white kid and say he has the ability to be Morrison.

In all fairness, you could argue just the tall white ones who can shoot from deep with a quick release and no conscience. That limits the field. Just from X history, Brad Redford (not tall) and Johnny Wolf (for a variety of reasons) are exempt from consideration. Could he be the next Morrison? Sure, and I could win the next lottery (but I'd probably need a ticket?). Could he average a dozen in a couple years? Hopefully.

On a side note, I saw a bumper sticker I liked: LOTTERY - a tax on people who are bad at math.