XAVIER vs FLORIDA GULF COAST

[MADXSTER]

1574 vs 1575

Xavier University Musketeers (8-3)
W Northern Arizona 93-60 Preseason pick was 3rd in Big Sky
W Long Beach State 97-74 Preseason pick was 3rd in Big West
W Stephen F Austin 81-63 Preseason pick was 1st in Southland
W Murray State 89-62 Preseason pick was 1st in OVC
W San Diego Toreros 82-71 Preseason pick was 5th in WCC
L UTEP Miners 77-73 Preseason pick was 2nd in CUSA
L Long Beach State 73-70 Preseason pick was 3rd in Big West
W Alabama 97-84 Preseason pick was 10th in the SEC
W IUPUI Jaquars 66-43
W Missouri Tigers 74-58 Preseason pick was 7th in the SEC
L Auburn Tigers 89-88 2OT

vs Florida Gulf Coast (7-2)
W UC Santa Barbara 81-75
W Ohio Univeristy 79-62
W Marist 58-43
W San Francisco 62-47
L Green Bay 59-45
W South Dakota St 71-58
W UMass 84-75
L FIU 69-63
W Furman 83-78


Sunday Dec. 28, 2014 4:00 p.m. ET at Cintas
Television: Fox Sports 1
Radio: 700 WLW-AM

GameTracker

Live Chat

[MADXSTER]

Bump

[waggy]

Do we need to win this one?

[xu82]

Do we need to win this one?

Nope, not if we win every game after this one.

The better plan might be to win this one and see where we go from there.

[paulxu]

Why does Farr shoot from behind the arc?

[Muskie]

Why does Farr shoot from behind the arc?

No idea. We have so many 3point shooters this year. We take him out of the paint to shoot a 3. Doesn't make sense to me.

[paulxu]

Paging Dee Davis...during 3-2 break, when you go into paint with 2 big guys...pass out to one of our 2 open guys.

Thanks.

[Muskie in dayton]

Magic Johnson-like pass from Macura on that break - wow!!

[paulxu]

I like our lead, but that last possession of the half sucked.
Hope they expand the double digit lead in second half.
It's time to blow somebody the hell out.

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

I'm enthused.

[bjf123]

Megan will you marry me just scrolled across the video board. Hope there's only one Megan here with a boyfriend!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

Paging Dee Davis...during 3-2 break, when you go into paint with 2 big guys...pass out to one of our 2 open guys.

Thanks.

Bump.

[paulxu]

Paging Dee Davis...during 3-2 break, when you go into paint with 2 big guys...pass out to one of our 2 open guys.

Thanks.

Re-bump.

[XU3232]

Remy needs as many minutes as he can handle.

[xu82]

I'm enthused.

Hope you were able to control that.

[chico]

Remy needs as many minutes as he can handle.

I guess you could say "Remy's willing and Abell" for more minutes.

Just made it under the deadline for worst pun of the year.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Happy to see a win, as expected, but not very impressive. We should have out scored them in the 2nd half. I wonder what happened to Bluiett.....he has not been scoring much the last few games. The FT shooting sucked again today....... So frustrating to watch!

[Masterofreality]

Well, the "easy" games are over. Big Boy basketball starts.

[XU2011]

Remy needs more minutes. He's quick, the best defender on the team and our offense is at its best when he's involved.

Why Farr is sill allowed to shoot from outside the paint is baffling.

Trevon has been totally absent for the most part since that games pre Thanksgiving. We need production from him if we want to make the tournament.

[Xville]

Glad we won...but it was a home game against an inferior opponent so not too much to get excited about. My expectations for this team have gone way down since the beginning of the season. That's probably a good thing for my sanity. I thought this team was going to be a lot better than last year....they haven't proved it yet. However that is what conference play is for...separate the men from the boys.

[X Factor]

Happy to see a win, as expected, but not very impressive. We should have out scored them in the 2nd half. I wonder what happened to Bluiett.....he has not been scoring much the last few games. The FT shooting sucked again today....... So frustrating to watch!

"ft shooting sucked again..."? What are you talking about? X came into today shooting 73% from the ft line. This is a good ft shooting team. They also shot close to 80% from the line on the road at Auburn.

If you're going to complain, at least complain about legit points.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

N
"ft shooting sucked again..."? What are you talking about? X came into today shooting 73% from the ft line. This is a good ft shooting team. They also shot close to 80% from the line on the road at Auburn.

If you're going to complain, at least complain about legit points.

The FT shooting TODAY is 52.9%. That is what I am complaining about.

[JTG]

Well, the "easy" games are over. Big Boy basketball starts.
Really big big boy bball Wed...Gtown looked impressive Sat vs IU. We'll need a monumental effort to win.

[xudash]

We beat the spread

We showed improvement on defense, with the team responding well to that charge

We played against 2 senior guards who have play 4 yrs together, including NCAA Tournament experience

They HAVE to learn to play all 40 minutes, but they responded each time the lead was cut to 9

[BMoreX]

I thought they played really well aside from a 5-10 minute stretch to start the second half.

FGCU isn't some doormat...they'll win the A-Sun.

Remy Abell is just such a difference maker when he is in the game. No doubt in my mind he is the best player on the team. Such a help on defense.

[waggy]

The pick and pop is part of the X offense. Has been forever. Farr is the only big that has any proficiency from deep. Hence he's going to get a couple a game. Not the number of attempts that past guys like Duncan got, but 2 or 3.

[X Factor]

N

The FT shooting TODAY is 52.9%. That is what I am complaining about.

Well you said it sucked "again" as if this is a reoccurring issue with this team. Yes, it wasn't good today, but that is not the norm with this team. This is a good FT shooting team, hence the 70+% average on the year.

[xukeith]

Re-bump.
Amen!

[LA Muskie]

We really need to stop missing shots. All kinds of shots. Free throws, layups, jump shots, fall-aways, dunks... Just imagine how much better we would be if we just never missed. Our defense probably wouldn't even matter then.

[Titanxman04]

We really need to stop missing shots. All kinds of shots. Free throws, layups, jump shots, fall-aways, dunks... Just imagine how much better we would be if we just never missed. Our defense probably wouldn't even matter then.

This. Coach Mack should figure out how to make that happen. If he can't, then we need to move on and find a new coach who can.

[D-West & PO-Z]

We beat the spread

We showed improvement on defense, with the team responding well to that charge

We played against 2 senior guards who have play 4 yrs together, including NCAA Tournament experience

They HAVE to learn to play all 40 minutes, but they responded each time the lead was cut to 9

Agree

[bleedXblue]

I think we saw about what we thought we would today. Dee and Remy played really well. Remy is starting to emerge. Farr played well except for him continuing to shoot from beyond the arc.....it's mind boggling that Mack apparently has given him the green light even though we have much better options.
Reynolds is playing much more deliberately in the post. He's now looking to shoot almost every time he gets the ball. I like that. A little concerned about Blueitt....but we have so many scoring options this year it's going to be tough for anyone to average beyond 12-13 PPG.

[xu82]

We really need to stop missing shots. All kinds of shots. Free throws, layups, jump shots, fall-aways, dunks... Just imagine how much better we would be if we just never missed. Our defense probably wouldn't even matter then.

If we never miss, we could chuck from serious deep territory and never have to cross half court....that might help the D.

[Nigel Tufnel]

We beat the spread

Actually, they didn't. Game time line was -15.5. Trust me....painful. At least I hit -8.5 for the first half.

[XUFan09]

Actually, they didn't. Game time line was -15.5. Trust me....painful. At least I hit -8.5 for the first half.

Ouch, I missed the last four-minute war, but I see that Dee missed a 3 with 5 seconds left and O'Mara missed the putback.

[bigdiggins]

I think we saw about what we thought we would today. Dee and Remy played really well. Remy is starting to emerge. Farr played well except for him continuing to shoot from beyond the arc.....it's mind boggling that Mack apparently has given him the green light even though we have much better options.
Reynolds is playing much more deliberately in the post. He's now looking to shoot almost every time he gets the ball. I like that. A little concerned about Blueitt....but we have so many scoring options this year it's going to be tough for anyone to average beyond 12-13 PPG.
So Dee went 4-12 and made 1-3 3pt shots and played really well; whereas Farr was 3-10 and 1-3 3 pt shots and should stop shooting. That extra 1-2 for Dee really did it for you.

[paulxu]

This is a crazy observation. But sometimes when the ball is being swung around high, or particular worked on the right side...the ball comes back to Dee high above the arc...and Blueitt is wide open on the left...and Dee just doesn't pass it to him, when it looks like a perfect in rhythm opportunity for a 3.

Is that my imagination working overtime?

[XUFan09]

So Dee went 4-12 and made 1-3 3pt shots and played really well; whereas Farr was 3-10 and 1-3 3 pt shots and should stop shooting. That extra 1-2 for Dee really did it for you.
I'm sure he's using overall stats, where Dee is shooting 36% from behind the arc and just under 50% from inside the arc, while Farr is...not. I'm guessing Farr is shooting much better in practices than in games, leading the staff to assume it's a bad slump and not an issue of ability. Hence the continued shooting.

[Muskie]

So Dee went 4-12 and made 1-3 3pt shots and played really well; whereas Farr was 3-10 and 1-3 3 pt shots and should stop shooting. That extra 1-2 for Dee really did it for you.

I thought Dee played a good game. The team's offense works better when he is in the game. Farr continues to be an enigma for me.

[bigdiggins]

I'm sure he's using overall stats, where Dee is shooting 36% from behind the arc and just under 50% from inside the arc, while Farr is...not. I'm guessing Farr is shooting much better in practices than in games, leading the staff to assume it's a bad slump and not an issue of ability. Hence the continued shooting.

For the record, I do agree Farr should stop shooting 3s ( and runners, and anything that isn't a dunk), but was thrown by the "really well" analysis for Dee. Certainly not a bad game for Dee, but 4-12 with at 2 least 2 backwards over his head layup attempts doesn't strike me as one of his better efforts either. Thought he tried to force things that weren't there too much tonight.

[bigdiggins]

I thought Dee played a good game. The team's offense works better when he is in the game. Farr continues to be an enigma for me.

This I agree with. Most of Dees head scratching wtf plays seem to come in transition.

[Muskie]

This I agree with. Most of Dees glaring mistakes seem to come in transition.
I'd argue the whole team isn't very good in transition.

[bigdiggins]

I'd argue the whole team isn't very good in transition.
They sure seem to want to make a spectacular play rather than an easy pass sometimes.

[bleedXblue]

So Dee went 4-12 and made 1-3 3pt shots and played really well; whereas Farr was 3-10 and 1-3 3 pt shots and should stop shooting. That extra 1-2 for Dee really did it for you.

You know call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure there are more facets to the game than simply looking at shooting percentages.

I'm also getting pretty tired of certain posters extracting what they want out of someone's post and creating something that simply isn't there.

Did I say Farr should stop shooting? No I didn't. Read the post and try to comprehend what's actually being said. My comment about Farr was from behind the arc where he currently is our worst 3 point shooter this year at a clip of 25%......by a wide margin. He should be our last option deep in the shot clock if he's going to chuck up 3's.

Farr can be a really valuable asset to this team by rebounding, playing good D and bringing his offensive game closer to the basket.

[X Factor]

I'd argue the whole team isn't very good in transition.

I think this team is really good in transition. They can up the court in a hurry off a defensive rebound, and they can a lot of easy buckets that way. Don't know what you've been watching for the past 6-8 weeks.

Yeah there are times when Dee tries going 1 on 2 or 1 on 3, but for the most part, I think they do a good job of getting a good look in transition.

[bleedXblue]

For the record, I do agree Farr should stop shooting 3s ( and runners, and anything that isn't a dunk), but was thrown by the "really well" analysis for Dee. Certainly not a bad game for Dee, but 4-12 with at 2 least 2 backwards over his head layup attempts doesn't strike me as one of his better efforts either. Thought he tried to force things that weren't there too much tonight.

Dee always looks like he's forcing things IMHO. He's 5'10' at best and once he gets around the rim he's a shot blockers dream. I think it's been covered at least 1000 times on this board that Dee is limited physically and simply has a hard time finishing plays close to the basket.

I thought he controlled the tempo very well tonight, took care of the ball and played solid D on their PG.

[bigdiggins]

You know call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure there are more facets to the game than simply looking at shooting percentages.

I'm also getting pretty tired of certain posters extracting what they want out of someone's post and creating something that simply isn't there.

Did I say Farr should stop shooting? No I didn't. Read the post and try to comprehend what's actually being said. My comment about Farr was from behind the arc where he currently is our worst 3 point shooter this year at a clip of 25%......by a wide margin. He should be our last option deep in the shot clock if he's going to chuck up 3's.

Farr can be a really valuable asset to this team by rebounding, playing good D and bringing his offensive game closer to the basket.
You made a special effort to call out Farr for going 1-3 but Davis had the same performance in that aspect of the game. One played really well, the other led the team in rebounds and had two blocks,but had to have a but thrown in. While Farr is at 25% this year, for his career he is at 33% while Davis for his career is at 35.5. Not a huge margin and Farr's career performance and performance in practice lead Mack to believe he'll improve on the 25%.

[NY44]

You made a special effort to call out Farr for going 1-3 but Davis had the same performance in that aspect of the game. One played really well, the other led the team in rebounds and had two blocks,but had to have a but thrown in. While Farr is at 25% this year, for his career he is at 33% while Davis for his career is at 35.5. Not a huge margin and Farr's career performance and performance in practice lead Mack to believe he'll improve on the 25%.

I'm with Bleed on this. Whenever Farr takes a 3 I cringe. It's a lot like watching JR Smith shoot as a Knicks fan. Even when he makes it, I'm still not happy he took the shot in the first place. It's just not good shot selection.

I have a lot more confidence in Dee's shooting and I'm much happier with Farr being under the basket in the case of, say, a Dee missed 3. It's a lose lose having 1 of our 3 legitimate big men that far from the basket. It's also why I find Mack's insistence on having big men hedge on screens irritating. Keep the big men in the paint!

[bleedXblue]

You made a special effort to call out Farr for going 1-3 but Davis had the same performance in that aspect of the game. One played really well, the other led the team in rebounds and had two blocks,but had to have a but thrown in. While Farr is at 25% this year, for his career he is at 33% while Davis for his career is at 35.5. Not a huge margin and Farr's career performance and performance in practice lead Mack to believe he'll improve on the 25%.

The entire context of my post is that we have much better options on the floor to shoot the 3. If you cant see that and want to bury your head in the sand, go for it.

Farr can help this team in so many other areas....evidenced by today's game.

[xu82]

Farr is more useful close to the basket. I hope London nails his first 10 treys next year so we don't go through this again. I'm not against bigs who shoot the three, I just hate seeing them miss every time! We have very good shooters who are open - get THEM the ball.

[LA Muskie]

Of course we have better options to shoot the 3. At minimum, there are Myles and Macura. Dee, Blueitt, and Abell are probably better options as well. But that misses the point. When he is hitting them, Farr is a major matchup problem. Now obviously he has to hit them, but you've got to figure he's hitting them in practice at a regular clip, and that the staff is just hoping he'll regain his confidence and become a threat from deep again...

[XU2011]

When has Farr ever been a "threat from deep"?

This is his third season playing for Xavier. The guy has made a total of 27 3 point shots... his entire career.

He did shoot 38% last year... he was 19/50. That's good for a big man, but not sure many teams really considered him a "threat from deep" when he averaged just 0.5 made 3PT shots per game last year.

[X Factor]

When has Farr ever been a "threat from deep"?

This is his third season playing for Xavier. The guy has made a total of 27 3 point shots... his entire career.

He did shoot 38% last year... he was 19/50. That's good for a big man, but not sure many teams really considered him a "threat from deep" when he averaged just 0.5 made 3PT shots per game last year.

When you shoot 38% from 3 on 50 attempts, I think that considers you a threat from three.

[GoMuskies]

When you shoot 38% from 3 on 50 attempts, I think that considers you a threat from three.

Agreed. But how many of those threes did he hit after conference play started? As many as 5? He was an animal in November and December, but I doubt any of our opponents still considered him a threat towards the end of the season.

I checked the game log, and Farr was 6-25 in Big East play. His last made 3 came February 3rd at Villanova.

[Cincypunk.org]

Jeff Robinson sighting!

[wkrq59]

Farr was 1-3 Sunday. That means somebody has to think about him or at least be aware of him. That doesn't mean he should be jacking up threes but if he does hit one occasionally, he can't continue to be ignored.
"How do you get to Carnegie Hall?" the tourist asked the cop. "Practice, practice, practice," replied the cop. Possible solution???????????

[NY44]

Of course we have better options to shoot the 3. At minimum, there are Myles and Macura. Dee, Blueitt, and Abell are probably better options as well. But that misses the point. When he is hitting them, Farr is a major matchup problem. Now obviously he has to hit them, but you've got to figure he's hitting them in practice at a regular clip, and that the staff is just hoping he'll regain his confidence and become a threat from deep again...

Is he really though? Maybe for a zone, but otherwise any man defense can nullify his 3-point impact. Put a semi-athletic big man on him and it's over, he's not hitting a contested 3. All he has going for him is the element of surprise, which would work a lot better if he spent the bulk of his time in the paint and stepped out occasionally. All he can do is shoot and pass beyond the arc. He can't come hot off screens and he's not driving or helping the flow of the offense.

All that being said, I don't really care about him taking 3 3pt shots. My bigger concern is us purposefully keeping our best rebounder away from the basket. If he's out there our only hope for an offensive rebound is either Reynolds or Stain (never both) or a crashing guard. None of it seems worth it to get a 24% shooter a few looks.

EDIT: If they're really going to commit to him being a 3 point threat, I'd think they'd want to get him some more shots at least. Maybe then he'll get in a flow and start hitting them.

[Fireball]

Clearly the emphasis was on defense in practice this past week, as it should have been. The team played a lot better on defense and didn't have their usual offensive game, it seemed.

They just need to keep up that defensive effort while not losing their offensive prowess...that's what it's going to take to beat Georgetown Wednesday and to finish well in the Big East.

[bleedXblue]

Agreed. But how many of those threes did he hit after conference play started? As many as 5? He was an animal in November and December, but I doubt any of our opponents still considered him a threat towards the end of the season.

I checked the game log, and Farr was 6-25 in Big East play. His last made 3 came February 3rd at Villanova.

Which then means that he was shooting almost 50% from 3 early last year in the OOC. So, he was hot for about a 10 game stretch last year.........since then, ice cold for the last 30 games or so.

I think we all wish the best for Farr. For me, its about what role he should/could be playing for this team and how he can help X win more games. We don't have a shortage of long range shooters who can knock them down at a clip much, much better than 25%. Farr is a really good rebounder. I'd love to add to his arsenal 2-3 offensive boards and stick backs for easy baskets every game. That makes us a much, much better team.

[Xville]

A win is a win at the end of the day. Although this team hasn't done much of note so far this season, they will certainly get their chances in conference. The conference is extremely good this year numbers wise which gives Xavier ample opportunities to make some noise. Hopefully they will be up to the challenge.

[XUOHTX]

A win is a win at the end of the day. Although this team hasn't done much of note so far this season, they will certainly get their chances in conference. The conference is extremely good this year numbers wise which gives Xavier ample opportunities to make some noise. Hopefully they will be up to the challenge.

Didn't you hear the announcers? They said it looks like X is going back to the tourney. We don't even need to play the BE games, let's go straight to selection Sunday!

[xsteve1]

Well, the "easy" games are over. Big Boy basketball starts.

Well there's DePaul who has gone completely in the toilet since their Illinois St. debacle.

[XU 87]

I'm guessing Farr is shooting much better in practices than in games, leading the staff to assume it's a bad slump and not an issue of ability. Hence the continued shooting.

I think we have a winner. There is a reason he has freedom to shoot threes.

He was one of three yesterday, putting up two wide open threes and one contested three. A big man who can shoot threes well is a huge weapon (See Josh Duncan).

[XU2011]

I think we have a winner. There is a reason he has freedom to shoot threes.

He was one of three yesterday, putting up two wide open threes and one contested three. A big man who can shoot threes well is a huge weapon (See Josh Duncan).

The issue is he can't.

As much as we want him to be... and as much as he was for 10 games last year.... he isn't a 3 point threat in gametime.

As I mentioned earlier, the guy has made 27 3's his ENTIRE CAREER... this is his 3rd season.

[XU 87]

The issue is he can't.

As much as we want him to be... and as much as he was for 10 games last year.... he isn't a 3 point threat in gametime.

As I mentioned earlier, the guy has made 27 3's his ENTIRE CAREER... this is his 3rd season.

He can't? Are you at practice?

He shot 38% from the three last year, 19-50. Based on that decent sized sample, I will say, "HE CAN".

Myles Davis went something like 1-24 at the end of last year from the three. Did you propose before the year started that he not shoot threes either?

Brandon Randolph shot 19% from the three last year. Should threes be off limit for him too? (this year he is shooting 63% from the three.)

[NY44]

He can't? Are you at practice?

He shot 38% from the three last year, 19-50. Based on that decent sized sample, I will say, "HE CAN".

Myles Davis went something like 1-24 at the end of last year from the three. Did you propose before the year started that he not shoot threes either?

But Myles Davis can't do anything else, so you let him shoot his way out of a slump. We're in more need of another big man with a post up game than another inconsistent outside shooter.

[XU 87]

Farr was second on the team last year in 3 point percentage. He was about .008% behind Semaj, who led the team.

He can shoot threes. The staff thinks he can shoot threes. He does need to make some better decisions when he shoots them. But you don't take a guy who can shoot threes and say, "Stop shooting threes. You're only 25% so far this year after 10 games."

Myles Davis does much more than just shoot threes. He's arguably our best penetrating guard.

[Juice]

My issue isn't that Farr shoots 3s, it's that he sometimes shoots dumb ones.

[XU 87]

My issue isn't that Farr shoots 3s, it's that he sometimes shoots dumb ones.

That's a different issue. He took one bad three yesterday. The other two were open looks.

[Smails]

It's not like Farr is chucking up threes left and right. He's currently 6th on the team in attempts. He is, always has been, and always will be a 'pick and pop' 4. He'll roll every once in a while but the majority of the time he is going to pop beyond the arc to draw someone out, and if they don't come out he'll have a wide open 3.

If he has a couple wide open looks per game, then I'm all in favor of him pulling the trigger. I don't want to see him taking step backs or contested fade aways. He's playing better post defense, rebounding well and hitting some shots here and there. I'd be surprised if the staff wasn't content with his output to this point in the season.

[NY44]

Farr was second on the team last year in 3 point percentage. He was about .008% behind Semaj, who led the team.

He can shoot threes. The staff thinks he can shoot threes. He does need to make some better decisions when he shoots them. But you don't take a guy who can shoot threes and say, "Stop shooting threes. You're only 25% so far this year after 10 games."

Myles Davis does much more than just shoot threes. He's arguably our best penetrating guard.

And he's 8th this year. Of the players getting consistent minutes (more than 10 min pg), only Jalen is a less efficient 3 point shooter and he's 0 for 1. He may start choosing better shots, and his practice shooting may transfer to a game eventually, but we know he can rebound the hell out of the ball.

[muskienick]

But Myles Davis can't do anything else, so you let him shoot his way out of a slump. We're in more need of another big man with a post up game than another inconsistent outside shooter.

Here are a few of those "nothing elses" that Myles seemingly can do:
86% from the free throw line
45% from the field (including 3-pointers)
Leads all guards on Xavier's team in RB's (at 2.3 per game)
Has 40% more assists than turnovers (although that is not point guard quality --- he's not a point guard)
From my perspective, his defense has seemed markedly better than it was during his first year as a Muskie in 2013-2014.

[XU 87]

And he's 8th this year. Of the players getting consistent minutes (more than 10 min pg), only Jalen is a less efficient 3 point shooter and he's 0 for 1. He may start choosing better shots, and his practice shooting may transfer to a game eventually, but we know he can rebound the hell out of the ball.

So I ask- if Farr showed last year he can make threes, and he has shown in practice this year that he can make threes, should the staff tell him to stop shooting threes because he's been a little cold so far this year in games?

[XU 87]

If he has a couple wide open looks per game, then I'm all in favor of him pulling the trigger. I don't want to see him taking step backs or contested fade aways.

I would agree with that. If he's wide open, and he has often been wide open, take the three. If the three is going to be contested to the point of making it a difficult shot, don't shoot it.

[NY44]

Here are a few of those "nothing elses" that Myles seemingly can do:
86% from the free throw line
45% from the field (including 3-pointers)
Leads all guards on Xavier's team in RB's (at 2.3 per game)
Has 40% more assists than turnovers (although that is not point guard quality --- he's not a point guard)
From my perspective, his defense has seemed markedly better than it was during his first year as a Muskie in 2013-2014.

Wow, I'm pretty surprised by most of those stats. Reps to you and Myles. I guess I'm still thinking of him in terms of his role last year. Where Semaj would've been the main contributor to all your above mentioned stats.

[xu82]

So I ask- if Farr showed last year he can make threes, and he has shown in practice this year that he can make threes, should the staff tell him to stop shooting threes because he's been a little cold so far this year in games?

I agree with this, and I'm also one of the people complaining when he shoots a three. It's hard to be entirely rational in the heat of battle. There is frustration in the moment, but like everything else, I have zero control over it, so I trust our coaches. If he starts hitting at an acceptable rate this topic goes away, so that's what I'm hoping for...as patiently as I can. (Not a personal strength.)

[NY44]

So I ask- if Farr showed last year he can make threes, and he has shown in practice this year that he can make threes, should the staff tell him to stop shooting threes because he's been a little cold so far this year in games?

It just seems like his shooting has really regressed in quality. Stats aside, a lot of his misses are just plain ugly. It's hard to quantify, or backup, but when other shooters slump their shots don't seem as far off as his have.

But agreed, you don't want to tell the guy he can't shoot. I think they need to have him in the paint full time, or really let him get more looks from 3 if they're so confident he can make them. Having him stay on the arc, taking 2 to 4 threes a game, and then benching him when he has ugly misses isn't helping him or the team.

[XU2011]

Myles Davis went something like 1-24 at the end of last year from the three. Did you propose before the year started that he not shoot threes either?



No, I didn't propose Myles not shoot 3's this year. I did propose he not shoot 3's towards the end of last year. And the coaching staff agreed, as his game was much more limited last year, his minutes were significantly reduced towards the end of the year.

[XU2011]

I'm still confused why opposing coaches would consider Farr a "major threat" from behind the arc, as some posters have suggested. If I'm the opposing coach, and the guy is making 0.5 3 point shots per game last year... a total of 19, in which the majority came during the OOC... I'm really not concerened AT ALL about him being a 3 point threat.

[XUFan09]

Is he really though? Maybe for a zone, but otherwise any man defense can nullify his 3-point impact. Put a semi-athletic big man on him and it's over, he's not hitting a contested 3.

Not everyone has a semi-athletic big man playing major minutes who can be assigned to him. For example, think of Stainbrook's defense on 3-point shooters

[GuyFawkes38]

I'm really excited where we are right now. I did not expect to have a kenpom rating of 29 at this point of the year. Bluiette had an uncharasitically poor game. But that happens. Despite some struggles yesterday, we are an efficient offensive machine. I wouldn't stress much on the offensive side of the court. The defense can be frustrating. We do have a relatively young backcourt. I think with some more experience and effort, our D will improve.

[NY44]

Not everyone has a semi-athletic big man playing major minutes who can be assigned to him. For example, think of Stainbrook's defense on 3-point shooters

Eh I think you're splitting hairs here. My main point being that he's an immobile shooter. Stainbrook probably would probably have to work to keep up with Farr. While it would be a cake walk for Reynolds.

[XUFan09]

Farr is more useful close to the basket.

The hit to Farr's offensive rebounding numbers when he's around the three-point line is notable, but consider the positives:

- Generally even mediocre defensive rebounders will get the rebound more often than good offensive rebounders, so Farr's presence at the three-point line is pulling a post defender away from where he has a good opportunity to get the rebound.
- The paint is opened up more for another post player to go to work or for a wing player to drive. Remember in the Auburn game, one of the major issues with Xavier's defense was that the bigs weren't properly clogging the paint. So indirectly, Farr's willingness to shoot the 3 improves the offensive efficiency of the team as a whole.

[XUFan09]

Eh I think you're splitting hairs here. My main point being that he's an immobile shooter. Stainbrook probably would probably have to work to keep up with Farr. While it would be a cake walk for Reynolds.

What I'm saying is that not everyone has a Reynolds available to guard Farr. Either they don't have that type of player at all or at least not playing significant minutes, or they have that player but he has been tasked with guarding Stainbrook/Reynolds. Farr benefits from Stainbrook and Reynolds both being higher priorities for defenses. If Farr was playing next to O'Mara against Stainbrook and Reynolds, then yeah, the defensive matchups would be easy: Stainbrook on O'Mara and Reynolds on Farr. Most teams are not as blessed as Xavier in terms of the size and ability of their post players though.

[NY44]

What I'm saying is that not everyone has a Reynolds available to guard Farr. Either they don't have that type of player at all or at least not playing significant minutes, or they have that player but he has been tasked with guarding Stainbrook/Reynolds. Farr benefits from Stainbrook and Reynolds both being higher priorities for defenses. If Farr was playing next to O'Mara against Stainbrook and Reynolds, then yeah, the defensive matchups would be easy: Stainbrook on O'Mara and Reynolds on Farr. Most teams are not as blessed as Xavier in terms of the size and ability of their post players though.

He's shooting so poorly that they really don't need any type of to guard his shot. There are players you can't give open looks to. Farr is not one of them.

He's also not drawing good defensive rebounders away from the basket AND he's not making the shots on top of that.

[XUFan09]

He's shooting so poorly that they really don't need any type of to guard his shot. There are players you can't give open looks to. Farr is not one of them.

He's also not drawing good defensive rebounders away from the basket AND he's not making the shots on top of that.

If he's slumping (which is likely, considering he's still allowed to shoot), then 25% is not that bad as a baseline. He just needs to bump that up into the low 30s, which once again is quite possible, as I'm sure he's shooting better in practice. It isn't a good percentage but enough to keep defenses honest and force them to cover him.

[RoseyMuskie]

The issue is he can't.

As much as we want him to be... and as much as he was for 10 games last year.... he isn't a 3 point threat in gametime.

As I mentioned earlier, the guy has made 27 3's his ENTIRE CAREER... this is his 3rd season.

So you're factoring in his freshman season within the basis of your argument?

If Myles or JP played very little their freshman year, would you argue that since they didn't shoot any, they shouldn't shoot? Because that's how your argument partially reads.

[drudy23]

Farr had one month where he couldn't miss. That led everyone to believe he could shoot the rock consistently. Time has shown he cannot. Stay in the paint and do the dirty work big guy.

Dee Davis - you are not a finisher. Stop trying to finish at the rim unless its a guarantee. 25% of his drives get blocked, 25% he makes, and the other 50% are so difficult that it will take a miracle for them to go in. There's a reason your shots around the hoop are so difficult to convert. Dump the damn thing off and let your finishers (Reynolds, Abell, Bluiett, Stain) finish.

Against FGCU, two scenarios defined this perfectly. 1) He gets a steal and quickly races down the floor with two defenders waiting for him. He initially had two guys on the wing. He accelerates so fast that he eliminate his 3 on 2 advantage and tries some miraculous behind the head, left-handed reverse prayer. They get the rebound and come back the other way and score right away. 2) Gets a steal...this time its 2 on 1. He actually makes the right play and lays it off to a streaking Abell who glides through the air and finishes they way solid finishers do. GET THE BALL TO YOUR FINISHERS!!!!

[NY44]

So you're factoring in his freshman season within the basis of your argument?

If Myles or JP played very little their freshman year, would you argue that since they didn't shoot any, they shouldn't shoot? Because that's how your argument partially reads.

Of course you count his freshman year because it's 1 less year of game experience/time to prove himself as a shooter. How about we look at how many years he has left instead? Around 1.5 seasons left to figure out how Farr can contribute to the offense. I don't like the chances of him finding his stroke in that time frame. I do like his chances of being bigger and stronger than opponents in that time.

[XU 87]

Farr had one month where he couldn't miss. That led everyone to believe he could shoot the rock consistently.


That is a good point. Farr did start off very hot last year from the three and then cooled won as the season went on.

As I see it- he should still shoot threes, but only when is very much open. If he has a hand in his face, don't shoot the three.

[XUFan09]

Of course you count his freshman year because it's 1 less year of game experience/time to prove himself as a shooter. How about we look at how many years he has left instead? Around 1.5 seasons left to figure out how Farr can contribute to the offense. I don't like the chances of him finding his stroke in that time frame. I do like his chances of being bigger and stronger than opponents in that time.

Fair point. He likely does have the stroke in practice, at least. Now, is he like Adrion Graves, who was apparently the best three-point shooter in practice but could never translate it to a game? Or is he like Dante in the beginning of his senior season when he was shooting about the same percentage in a slump?

[XUFan09]

That is a good point. Farr did start off very hot last year from the three and then cooled won as the season went on.

As I see it- he should still shoot threes, but only when is very much open. If he has a hand in his face, don't shoot the three.

Farr's shooting last year was interesting, but it was more than simply one month of hot shooting. He shot 52% in the non-conference slate (13 games), 37.5% in the first half of the conference slate (9 games), but suddenly 0-9 in the last 12 games. Due to his weakening overall performance and due to Reynolds getting better, his minutes were severely curtailed in the last part of the season, which generally leads to wild fluctations for good or bad (usually bad) in a person's shooting performance. It's simply incorrect though to say it was one hot month of shooting; the guy's shooting percentage was somewhere in the 40s, percentile-wise (EDIT: 46.3%), through 22 games, but then he just stopped making them all of a sudden. Unfortunately for the team, it was at the same time as Myles' slump.

I agree that he should avoid contested shots, though, because he's not called upon to be a scorer for the team and I question how efficient he would be.

[RoseyMuskie]

Of course you count his freshman year because it's 1 less year of game experience/time to prove himself as a shooter. How about we look at how many years he has left instead? Around 1.5 seasons left to figure out how Farr can contribute to the offense. I don't like the chances of him finding his stroke in that time frame. I do like his chances of being bigger and stronger than opponents in that time.

Point I was trying to make is that XU11 was claiming he has only made 27 over three seasons...trying to show that he hasn't made many over a given time frame, when, in actuality, he should really only be counting two. I don't think his overall point is completely invalid, but that rebuttal is debunked rather easily.

[mohr5150]

Happy with the win, not with the performance. I was listening to the post game show, and it blew my mind how much both Mack and Byron thought Dee had a good game. I thought he single-handedly gave up ten points with horrible decision making by driving to the basket against two or three defenders and getting stuffed or missing a shot, leading to points at the other end. I also thought we took too many quck shots early in the shot clock. The defense looked marginally better, but FGCU made way too many threes and missed several wide open shots. It is hard for me to think of someone who played really well. They are going to need several guys to step up their game in order for us to win Wednesday.

[XU2011]

Point I was trying to make is that XU11 was claiming he has only made 27 over three seasons...trying to show that he hasn't made many over a given time frame, when, in actuality, he should really only be counting two. I don't think his overall point is completely invalid, but that rebuttal is debunked rather easily.

Ok. He made 19 last year. That's 0.5 made 3 point shots per game.


If I'm the opposing coach, there's no way I consider that a significant threat or major matchup problem as some here are trying to suggest. If I'm the opposing coach and Farr wants to make 1 3 point shot every other game, be my guest. I'd be happy to see that because it pulls a big man and a good rebounder out on the perimeter.

[NY44]

Point I was trying to make is that XU11 was claiming he has only made 27 over three seasons...trying to show that he hasn't made many over a given time frame, when, in actuality, he should really only be counting two. I don't think his overall point is completely invalid, but that rebuttal is debunked rather easily.

I'll give you that, but 27 isn't even a decent amount of 3s in 2 years. If he had a high percentage it would be more acceptable, but it's not a stretch for decent shooters to do that in a year. Recently, Tu Holloway, Mark Lyons and Brad Redford have made double that amount in a season. If you go back, Sato made more than triple that in the '01-02 season.

Totally unrelated, but a fun stat I've found is that Jason Love never took a 3 at X. He is still very much the man.

[xu82]

They are going to need several guys to step up their game in order for us to win Wednesday.
Oh, I don't disagree with that for a second! But I think we have the guys to do it. The best part is, unlike recent years, we have more than one or two guys who can step up and have a big (late) night! Hopefully better competition means we step up our game.

[X Factor]

Happy with the win, not with the performance. I was listening to the post game show, and it blew my mind how much both Mack and Byron thought Dee had a good game. I thought he single-handedly gave up ten points with horrible decision making by driving to the basket against two or three defenders and getting stuffed or missing a shot, leading to points at the other end.

And that's why you're an armchair coach, just like the rest of us. You have no idea how to truly grade a point guard's performance. Mack has been around some very good point guards, most notably Chris Paul at Wake Forest so I'm pretty sure he knows what to look for when he judges how his point guard played.

[XUFan09]

And that's why you're an armchair coach, just like the rest of us. You have no idea how to truly grade a point guard's performance. Mack has been around some very good point guards, most notably Chris Paul at Wake Forest so I'm pretty sure he knows what to look for when he judges how his point guard played.

Byron tends to have a fair assessment of players too.

[bleedXblue]

Getting pretty deep in here.

This is an internet message board........

[waggy]

Dee was better than the other PG. That's my take on it.

He is playing better this year overall, but he still made a few plays last game that he shouldn't have. To my eye anyway. But Mack might want him to push the pace some too.

They'll get it figured out.

[XfansinKy]

Happy with the win, not with the performance. I was listening to the post game show, and it blew my mind how much both Mack and Byron thought Dee had a good game. I thought he single-handedly gave up ten points with horrible decision making by driving to the basket against two or three defenders and getting stuffed or missing a shot, leading to points at the other end. I also thought we took too many quck shots early in the shot clock. The defense looked marginally better, but FGCU made way too many threes and missed several wide open shots. It is hard for me to think of someone who played really well. They are going to need several guys to step up their game in order for us to win Wednesday.
I don't know how anybody can objectively disagree with you on Dee. Actually I would think if anything, being around CP3 would reinforce to Mack how much Dee is lacking. He's a tough little guy and he's the best we got though. Maybe that's why he gets praised by Byron n Mack. I believe at this point he is what he is and we could do worse than Dee.

[Juice]

I don't know how anybody can objectively disagree with you on Dee. Actually I would think if anything, being around CP3 would reinforce to Mack how much Dee is lacking. He's a tough little guy and he's the best we got though. Maybe that's why he gets praised by Byron n Mack. I believe at this point he is what he is and we could do worse than Dee.

He's tied for 42nd in the country in assists, 87th is A/TO ratio, and top 100 in 3 point FG%. What more do you want?

And let's remember that there are around 4,381 scholarship basketball players in D1 hoops.

[Xville]

He's tied for 42nd in the country in assists, 87th is A/TO ratio, and top 100 in 3 point FG%. What more do you want?

And let's remember that there are around 4,381 scholarship basketball players in D1 hoops.

I think it just comes down to the fact that prior to Davis, we had six years of great point guard play in Tu and Lavender. Those guys were two of the best point guards that Xavier has ever had and they were both extremely athletically gifted. Davis isn't very athletic by Div 1 Big East standards...if he makes a mistake, it is magnified because he can't get himself out of trouble like Tu or Lavender could. Davis is also extremely inconsistent and it is maddening...statistics don't tell the whole story. I mean would you rather have Tu or Lavender running the point or Davis? Davis may even have better stats (I'm too lazy to look it up) than those two guys in terms of no of assists or A/TO, but he certainly is not a better point guard than either one of those two. I, and I think most Xavier fans, expect a lot from our point guards because of recent history, and Davis does not deliver on a consistent basis.

[LA Muskie]

I don't know how anybody can objectively disagree with you on Dee. Actually I would think if anything, being around CP3 would reinforce to Mack how much Dee is lacking. He's a tough little guy and he's the best we got though. Maybe that's why he gets praised by Byron n Mack. I believe at this point he is what he is and we could do worse than Dee.

CP3 was a once-in-a-lifetime talent. I very much doubt he is the barometer against which Dee is measured by Mack.

[LA Muskie]

I think it just comes down to the fact that prior to Davis, we had six years of great point guard play in Tu and Lavender. Those guys were two of the best point guards that Xavier has ever had and they were both extremely athletically gifted. Davis isn't very athletic by Div 1 Big East standards...if he makes a mistake, it is magnified because he can't get himself out of trouble like Tu or Lavender could. Davis is also extremely inconsistent and it is maddening...statistics don't tell the whole story. I mean would you rather have Tu or Lavender running the point or Davis? Davis may even have better stats (I'm too lazy to look it up) than those two guys in terms of no of assists or A/TO, but he certainly is not a better point guard than either one of those two. I, and I think most Xavier fans, expect a lot from our point guards because of recent history, and Davis does not deliver on a consistent basis.

I agree Tu and Drew were better all-around PGs. I disagree that Dee is wildly inconsistent. He is very much a net positive, and fairly consistently so.

[Smails]

If I'm the opposing coach, there's no way I consider that a significant threat or major matchup problem as some here are trying to suggest. If I'm the opposing coach and Farr wants to make 1 3 point shot every other game, be my guest. I'd be happy to see that because it pulls a big man and a good rebounder out on the perimeter.

And yet coaches like Jay Wright, John Thompson, Ed Cooley and a host of others will continue to run a player out at him as to not give him an uncontested three every time.

Idiots

[drudy23]

I think this team can be very successful with Dee, but Dee has to realize this isn't last year. He's not a needed scorer. I don't mind the occasional open 3, or easy layups, but he has to stop trying to force drives into 6-10 guys. They only get bigger and more athletic as we get into the Big East. Distribute the ball to your finishers and let them finish. The shots he forces against 1-2 bigger guys are so tough that there's no way he's going to consistently make them.

Stick to your point guard duties...that's what this team needs.

[xuwin]

I agree Tu and Drew were better all-around PGs. I disagree that Dee is wildly inconsistent. He is very much a net positive, and fairly consistently so.

I totally agree with you. I would love to see some stats on Xavier's performance this year with and without Dee in the lineup. I think it would be significant.

[Masterofreality]

I totally agree with you. I would love to see some stats on Xavier's performance this year with and without Dee in the lineup. I think it would be significant.

I don't have any stats, but other than BRandolph's performance vs Mizzou, X has been significantly worse when Dee has not been in.

Maybe a plus/minus somewhere?

[Juice]

I think it just comes down to the fact that prior to Davis, we had six years of great point guard play in Tu and Lavender. Those guys were two of the best point guards that Xavier has ever had and they were both extremely athletically gifted. Davis isn't very athletic by Div 1 Big East standards...if he makes a mistake, it is magnified because he can't get himself out of trouble like Tu or Lavender could. Davis is also extremely inconsistent and it is maddening...statistics don't tell the whole story. I mean would you rather have Tu or Lavender running the point or Davis? Davis may even have better stats (I'm too lazy to look it up) than those two guys in terms of no of assists or A/TO, but he certainly is not a better point guard than either one of those two. I, and I think most Xavier fans, expect a lot from our point guards because of recent history, and Davis does not deliver on a consistent basis.

Well one was a high school all american and the other was a college all american. Just because the predecessors were really good/awesome, it doesn't make Dee bad or average. He's an above average point guard for a good team. People need to stop being so illogical when they talk about Dee.

[Xville]

Well one was a high school all american and the other was a college all american. Just because the predecessors were really good/awesome, it doesn't make Dee bad or average. He's an above average point guard for a good team. People need to stop being so illogical when they talk about Dee.

well, i think he is very average but we will agree to disagree on that one. As far as the rest, I was just trying to explain why people are so hard on Dee at times. We are used to seeing a whole lot better. Dee is what he is, but I think his limitations also limit the team as a whole.

[paulxu]

I think this team can be very successful with Dee, but Dee has to realize this isn't last year. He's not a needed scorer. I don't mind the occasional open 3, or easy layups, but he has to stop trying to force drives into 6-10 guys. They only get bigger and more athletic as we get into the Big East. Distribute the ball to your finishers and let them finish. The shots he forces against 1-2 bigger guys are so tough that there's no way he's going to consistently make them.

Stick to your point guard duties...that's what this team needs.

I tired that logic one time. Got the Dee Hater label. Hope it doesn't get you in trouble.

[Juice]

well, i think he is very average but we will agree to disagree on that one. As far as the rest, I was just trying to explain why people are so hard on Dee at times. We are used to seeing a whole lot better. Dee is what he is, but I think his limitations also limit the team as a whole.

I showed you stats that put him in the top 100 in important categories for PGs. And you still think he's average? Also, I am reiterating the term illogical because some of you guys are grown adults and separate Dee from prior players.

[94GRAD]

Larry Bird is from Indiana, Dee is from Indiana. Dee isn't nearly as good as Larry Bird!!! Since he isn't as good as Larry, I can't believe he plays as many minutes as he does.

[Xville]

Yes I think Dee is average. Statistics don't tell the whole story. When Dee plays well, we usually win. When Dee doesn't play well, we usually lose. The problem is that in Dee's three years of running the show, he has been inconsistent, much the same as the team has been as a whole. As I said on a different thread...the key to this team getting into the tournament and maybe making a little noise is Dee being consistent, and Reynolds becoming a force inside both on offense and defense. If those two things happen, this team is going to be special. If it does not, then we will be an up and down team all season long.

[Cincypunk.org]

I agree Tu and Drew were better all-around PGs. I disagree that Dee is wildly inconsistent. He is very much a net positive, and fairly consistently so.

Agreed. Dee gets too much heat on this board. He does his job and he does it well.

[ForTUitous]

For the next couple games please watch the offense as a whole when Dee is in the game compared to when he is not. Xavier's offense is way more efficient when Dee is running the point. I can't be the only that notices this.....

[Xville]

For the next couple games please watch the offense as a whole when Dee is in the game compared to when he is not. Xavier's offense is way more efficient when Dee is running the point. I can't be the only that notices this.....

has anyone said anything differently? i don't think anyone is calling for Dee to be benched in favor of someone else on the team...right now we don't have anyone better.

[XUFan09]

I find it hard to believe we would have a top 15 offense with an average point guard. Not saying Dee should be a Bob Cousy finalist, but somewhere in between those two points is most likely.

[SC in DC]

As many have said, Dee's job is to run the team and distribute--take the open 3 and drive to the bucket on the fast break or if he has a step and an opening. His "D" is what it is because of his stature vs big east guards.(adequate?) I think he accomplishes all this in an B- manner (C=average) EXCEPT his several ill-advised forays into the trees under the basket. He needs to dish to a big or stop challenging 6'10" PF's!! (By the way as I post this--THE OSU is down by 11 with 12 min to go)

[Juice]

Yes I think Dee is average. Statistics don't tell the whole story. When Dee plays well, we usually win. When Dee doesn't play well, we usually lose. The problem is that in Dee's three years of running the show, he has been inconsistent, much the same as the team has been as a whole. As I said on a different thread...the key to this team getting into the tournament and maybe making a little noise is Dee being consistent, and Reynolds becoming a force inside both on offense and defense. If those two things happen, this team is going to be special. If it does not, then we will be an up and down team all season long.

In what ways has he run the show? Semaj had the ball the majority of the time, as he should have the last two years. You're letting position designations mess with your head.

[Juice]

For the next couple games please watch the offense as a whole when Dee is in the game compared to when he is not. Xavier's offense is way more efficient when Dee is running the point. I can't be the only that notices this.....

You're not. Some people just need a whipping boy for when things go wrong. Once they lock in on a guy they won't give it up.

[XUFan09]

As many have said, Dee's job is to run the team and distribute--take the open 3 and drive to the bucket on the fast break or if he has a step and an opening. His "D" is what it is because of his stature vs big east guards.(adequate?) I think he accomplishes all this in an B- manner (C=average) EXCEPT his several ill-advised forays into the trees under the basket. He needs to dish to a big or stop challenging 6'10" PF's!! (By the way as I post this--THE OSU is down by 11 with 12 min to go)
Dee sometimes runs into issues with a bigger guard being able to shoot over him, but Big East coaches generally consider him to be one of the best on-ball defenders in the league.

[PMI]

I find it hard to believe we would have a top 15 offense with an average point guard. Not saying Dee should be a Bob Cousy finalist, but somewhere in between those two points is most likely.

This is what I think people are conveniently ignoring as they expect something significantly more out of Dee. We have a really, really good offense through a third of the season, and it is noticeably much better when Dee is running it than with any other point. I just can't see how an average point guard could do that, even if he were the fifth best player in the lineup (which I believe he's better than FWIW.) What I've learned over the past page of this thread is that Dee isn't Chris Paul, Tu Holloway or Drew Lavender... Uh, OK? What does that have to do with anything? Just because we've been spoiled in the recent past with a couple very good PGs means we need to point out every single mistake Dee ever makes in a game? He is not a perfect point guard, and was never brought in here with the expectation that he could be a perfect point guard. But he is a good point guard who I've been impressed with this year far more often than not. I, like most everyone else here, get frustrated with the drives into the trees or the sloppy turnovers when they happen, but why they need to be pointed out ad naseum anymore than the other mistakes made by other players on our team is beyond me. Yes, he's a senior point guard, and with that comes a bigger burden. But some people just flat out miss the fact that we've got it pretty good with Dee, all things considered. I also expect to see him play his best ball as his senior year goes on, as many Xavier seniors before him have. And when he does, I expect him to earn far less praise around here than he has gotten over the top criticism for to this point.

[paulxu]

I also expect to see him play his best ball as his senior year goes on, as many Xavier seniors before him have. And when he does, I expect him to earn far less praise around here than he has gotten over the top criticism for to this point.

I, for one, will be back on here singing his praises tomorrow if he leads us to a BE win over the Hoyas.

(While reserving my message board rights to remark occasionally on his, or anyone's, bonehead play.)

[PMI]

I, for one, will be back on here singing his praises tomorrow if he leads us to a BE win over the Hoyas.

(While reserving my message board rights to remark occasionally on his, or anyone's, bonehead play.)

I think it's totally acceptable to comment on bone-headed plays by anyone. I just think that not all players are treated equally in that regard. There's a popular punching bag every year (some more warranted than others) and this year it's Dee. After the Missouri game, there were like 2 or 3 posts that briefly made mention of how he played a good game, when in reality he played an outstanding game and we'd have zero road wins without it. Oh well.

[Xville]

This is what I think people are conveniently ignoring as they expect something significantly more out of Dee. We have a really, really good offense through a third of the season, and it is noticeably much better when Dee is running it than with any other point. I just can't see how an average point guard could do that, even if he were the fifth best player in the lineup (which I believe he's better than FWIW.) What I've learned over the past page of this thread is that Dee isn't Chris Paul, Tu Holloway or Drew Lavender... Uh, OK? What does that have to do with anything? Just because we've been spoiled in the recent past with a couple very good PGs means we need to point out every single mistake Dee ever makes in a game? He is not a perfect point guard, and was never brought in here with the expectation that he could be a perfect point guard. But he is a good point guard who I've been impressed with this year far more often than not. I, like most everyone else here, get frustrated with the drives into the trees or the sloppy turnovers when they happen, but why they need to be pointed out ad naseum anymore than the other mistakes made by other players on our team is beyond me. Yes, he's a senior point guard, and with that comes a bigger burden. But some people just flat out miss the fact that we've got it pretty good with Dee, all things considered. I also expect to see him play his best ball as his senior year goes on, as many Xavier seniors before him have. And when he does, I expect him to earn far less praise around here than he has gotten over the top criticism for to this point.

We shall see what happens. The games against mediocre defenses outside of DePaul are over so we shall see how dee and the offense responds. I promise to come back and sing Dees praises if he plays well. I hope that he does, I hope he has one of those special senior seasons.

[Juice]

We shall see what happens. The games against mediocre defenses outside of DePaul are over so we shall see how dee and the offense responds. I promise to come back and sing Dees praises if he plays well. I hope that he does, I hope he has one of those special senior seasons.

SFA has a 57th ranked defense and Dee had 9 points, 12 assists (5 TOs) and the team scored 81 points. Alabama has a 69th ranked defense and Dee had 10 points, 8 assists (3 TOs) and the team scored 97 points. San Diego has a 81st ranked defense and Dee had a bad game. And UTEP has a 63rd ranked defense and Dee has 12 points, 5 assists (2 TOs).

So out of the top 4 defenses X has played this season Dee has played well in 3 of the games.

[bleedXblue]

If Dee plays the remainder of the year the way he has the first 12 games, I'll take it right now.

Everyone by now knows his limitations.

I am 99% sure we will not see a Lionel Chalmers reincarnation.

[PMI]

If Dee plays the remainder of the year the way he has the first 12 games, I'll take it right now.

Everyone by now knows his limitations.

I am 99% sure we will not see a Lionel Chalmers reincarnation.

I am fairly certain we will never see a repeat of Lionel Chalmers' last month and a half or so. He turned into the nation's hottest guard. It was unprecedented in my time of watching X. However, it has been a running theme on many of our teams over the years that many of our seniors have stepped up and brought it down the stretch. Many of the guys in the program seem to have played with that sense of urgency and unwillingness to let their careers end the wrong way. I can definitely see Dee doing that. Will that yield Chalmers-like results? I hardly think so, but Dee at his best is a very good thing for this team.

I'm with you that I would take the way he's played the rest of the year. I think he's got a little more in him though.

[drudy23]

This is what I think people are conveniently ignoring as they expect something significantly more out of Dee. .

I would argue that most are saying they expect something significantly LESS from Dee. Most are saying "just be a point guard". Less shots for him means more from the guys who can CONSISTENTLY score. Run the show, take care of the ball, make good decisions (that includes shot selection for himself)...that's what this team needs...not him shooting 6 crazy difficult shots per game.

[PMI]

I would argue that most are saying they expect something significantly LESS from Dee. Most are saying "just be a point guard". Less shots for him means more from the guys who can CONSISTENTLY score. Run the show, take care of the ball, make good decisions (that includes shot selection for himself)...that's what this team needs...not him shooting 6 crazy difficult shots per game.

You're taking what I said too literally. How about, "those who expect Dee to be significantly better than what he's been." I agree with you on what we would like to have out of him, but I think we've mostly gotten that. There have been exceptions with some ill-advised shots (certainly not 6 per game by any means) and sloppy turnovers, but that's what you live with with a point guard who plays that many minutes and isn't an All-American. If Dee improves in those two areas from where he's been, he's going to be a really solid point guard.