Sumner Medical Redshirt

[waggy]

Per the Chris Mack show.

Does he retain the year of eligibility? I would assume so, otherwise why the use of the term redshirt.

[bobbiemcgee]

I think if he does not participate in 30% of the games, he keeps his 4 yrs. of eligiblity.

[xu82]

Wow, hope he keeps the year of eligibility. Is it his knees?

[BMoreX]

He should. He'll be under 30% played.

This will help split the class up better as well.

[waggy]

Is it his knees?

Yeah, the suggestion was that his continued growth is the cause. I'm guessing about 4" in two years from what I got of the conversation?

[GreatWhiteNorth]

He needs to spend a lot of time in the cafeteria and weight room.

[LA Muskie]

The rule is: (i) a season-ending injury or medical condition; (ii) occurring in the 1st half of the season; and (iii) before the player has played in 30% of a team's scheduled contests.

My guess is they gave it a shot but decided they should shut him down, particularly since that was probably best for him and the program (in that order).

Assuming the NCAA agrees that the conditions are met, this year would not count against his 4 years of eligibility and he would have 4 years to play 4 starting next year.

[xu82]

This sounds like it's best for him physically and developmentally, and minutes would have been scarce anyway. As mentioned, it helps to balance out the classes to some degree.

[Juice]

I don't want to make light of his knee issues but I honestly don't think they would be doing this if there were available minutes for him. I think they wanted to see if he would break the lineup knowing that they had this medical redshirt in their back pocket. I have no problem with this move though as long as Sumner is cool with it.

[bobbiemcgee]

Rx is rest allowing the tendons to catch up with his growth spurt. If he can't go at 100%, I think it's best and they are a lot of people who think he'll be the best guard on the team when he comes back, including me.

[xu82]

He's still young. I'm wondering if he outgrows PG?

[XMuskieFTW]

My question is will this fly with the NCAA? It's very likely they gave him a go to see if he could crack the rotation and contribute this year and are using this as a back up. Will the NCAA not see that and deny it, or is this the one case where the schools actually have the advantage over the NCAA?

[xu82]

It's a legit issue which has caused him time already. It doesn't sound like it's just a hoax that would be likely to be challenged.

[SlimKibbles]

My question is will this fly with the NCAA? It's very likely they gave him a go to see if he could crack the rotation and contribute this year and are using this as a back up. Will the NCAA not see that and deny it, or is this the one case where the schools actually have the advantage over the NCAA?

If it falls within the NCAA guidelines for a redshirt, how can they deny it?

[XMuskieFTW]

If it falls within the NCAA guidelines for a redshirt, how can they deny it?

Because they're the NCAA and known for making rulings that make absolutely no sense.

[xu82]

Because they're the NCAA and known for making rulings that make absolutely no sense.

Well.... there's always that.

(But I'm hopeful for some reason here.)

[Juice]

This really balances the class putting him Gates and London. Mack is like the Nick Saban of basketball, except he didn't send these guys to a JUCO school for two years.

[LA Muskie]

If it falls within the NCAA guidelines for a redshirt, how can they deny it?
Well, there is one big subjective element of the guidelines: whether is was a iseason-ending injury or medical condition. So theoretically, the NCAA could assess motive and not rely on the reported basis for the medical waiver. That said, it's my understanding that the NCAA doesn't engage in nit-picking on this one, because it is so subjective, and hence if the other two factors are satisfied and there is SOME medical basis, the waiver is granted.

To be clear, though, unlike a "developmental redshirt" -- which really just entails not playing -- a "medical waiver" requires an application and approval from the NCAA.

[Nigel Tufnel]

This really balances the class putting him Gates and London. Mack is like the Nick Saban of basketball, except he didn't send these guys to a JUCO school for two years.

Wonder if he'll be adding Jarron Cumberland to this class. Or how red shirting Sumner affects the recruitment of Cumberland.

[boozehound]

Tough break for Edmond. Hopefully this is the kind of issue that he can make a full recovery from and not the type of thing that lingers beyond this season.

Does anyone know if there are practice limitations associated with the medical redshirt, or can he practice full-go as much as he is able.

[XUFan09]

Wonder if he'll be adding Jarron Cumberland to this class. Or how red shirting Sumner affects the recruitment of Cumberland.
Cumberland is in the 2016 class, actually, but this does put them only a class apart now.

[bleedXblue]

So this leaves us with one open spot for next year still?

Just Stain and Dee graduate.

We really need a classic 4. Kaiser Gates is more of a 3. So is Makinde London.

Reynolds will be Senior next year.

I wonder if a JUCO is an option?

[XUFan09]

Reynolds will be a junior, but Farr will be a senior.

[bleedXblue]

Reynolds will be a junior, but Farr will be a senior.

As a non qualifier, does he lose a year of eligibility?

[boozehound]

As a non qualifier, does he lose a year of eligibility?

I don't believe so.

[xu82]

Well, this gives Sumner and London plenty of time to become weight room buddies.... Make the most of it, men!

[bleedXblue]

I just read that non-qualifiers can gain back a year of eligibility if they complete 80% of their degree prior to the beginning of their 5th year of school.


http://ucirvine.prestosports.com/inside_uci/compliance/future/ncaa_clearinghouse_faqs

[bleedXblue]

Well, this gives Sumner and London plenty of time to become weight room buddies.... Make the most of it, men!

I just hope they are on board with it and embrace the opportunity. I'm sure some kids are a little bitter about not being able to play.

[Milhouse]

Jalen and Myles both have 2 years left...worry not.

This is probably the best case scenario for him in the long run....especially if we can get brandon playing better this year too.

[muskiefan82]

I just hope they are on board with it and embrace the opportunity. I'm sure some kids are a little bitter about not being able to play.

My guess is that when it is obvious that you won't have as much/no pain if you wait, it makes it a little easier to cope with.

[bleedXblue]

My guess is that when it is obvious that you won't have as much/no pain if you wait, it makes it a little easier to cope with.

London at least can practice and improve. Really hope he can at least add 10-15 pounds and fill out some for next year.

[xutag77]

My son went through the same type of growth spurt in High School. As as freshman he was 5'4" as a senior he was 6'2". Very painful as his tendons and knees would hurt as they would were not growing as the same rate as his bones.

Hope Sumner accepts it in stride and continues to grows into a fine XU graduate we all hope he can. And then maybe help us on the course the next few years.

[bleedXblue]

I think Sumner is going to be really, really good.......if he can get his health in order. Reminds me a lot of Semaj with his size and quickness. Another poster questioned if he could grow out of the PG spot. I don't think so.

[XUFan09]

I just read that non-qualifiers can gain back a year of eligibility if they complete 80% of their degree prior to the beginning of their 5th year of school.


http://ucirvine.prestosports.com/inside_uci/compliance/future/ncaa_clearinghouse_faqs
Thanks for the research. Reynolds and Myles should have no problem meeting that goal, but I had assumed before there were no conditions.

Concerning Sumner's PG status, as a recruit he was billed as more of a combo guard than a true point guard, so we'll see how he develops. I doubt he will ever turn into a pure wing, but if he turns out to be a combo guard, it's nice that he's already as tall as an NBA combo (unlike, say, Lyons or even Tu).

[BMoreX]

"There's no concern long-term that Edmond's going to be not fine. He's going to be 100 percent. But in order for Edmond to really feel like he's got his legs under him, it's probably in his best interest to medically redshirt this year. And so that's what we're looking to do with Edmond. He'll still be able to practice when he can but again, we're more concerned about Edmond's long-term health than we are getting him ready next month, and that's a decision that we've come to make over the last week or so."

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/xaviersports/2014/12/16/edmond-sumner-headed-for-medical-redshirt/20478039/

[More Cowbell]

Thanks for the research. Reynolds and Myles should have no problem meeting that goal, but I had assumed before there were no conditions.

Concerning Sumner's PG status, as a recruit he was billed as more of a combo guard than a true point guard, so we'll see how he develops. I doubt he will ever turn into a pure wing, but if he turns out to be a combo guard, it's nice that he's already as tall as an NBA combo (unlike, say, Lyons or even Tu).

-See Michael Carter-Williams

[paulxu]

In the meantime, Sumner can travel with the team, practice and even dress for games. If his waiver is approved (likely at the season's end), he will retain all four years of eligibility.

For some reason I find this part of the article confusing. What's the point of dressing for a game if you aren't going to play, or even hope to play because doing so would say you are OK enough, and don't need to be redshirted.

What's more confusing is that they have to wait until the end of the year for the redshirt approval. If he was better in February, you wouldn't know whether you could use him if needed. If you didn't, and they didn't grant it, you'd have lost a full year of his eligibility, and maybe his services at a critical juncture in the conference play.

NB: I may be just too confused to understand this process.

[Juice]

For some reason I find this part of the article confusing. What's the point of dressing for a game if you aren't going to play, or even hope to play because doing so would say you are OK enough, and don't need to be redshirted.

What's more confusing is that they have to wait until the end of the year for the redshirt approval. If he was better in February, you wouldn't know whether you could use him if needed. If you didn't, and they didn't grant it, you'd have lost a full year of his eligibility, and maybe his services at a critical juncture in the conference play.

NB: I may be just too confused to understand this process.

It's pretty much a forgone conclusion that he will get his medical redshirt.

[Olsingledigit]

-See Michael Carter-Williams

See also, for those old enough, Bobby Wilkerson of Indiana's 1976 undefeated team. He was the starting off guard (they didn't call them 1 & 2 back then). He was 6'7" and jumped center for IU that year. Great athlete. Reminds me of Sumner. Here is a you tube clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq9lWBiVZIk

[xu82]

My son went through the same type of growth spurt in High School. As as freshman he was 5'4" as a senior he was 6'2". Very painful as his tendons and knees would hurt as they would were not growing as the same rate as his bones.

"Growing pains" are real, not just an expression. My brother-in-law grew something crazy - like 6 inches - one year in high school. He grew so fast his femur grew away from his hip socket. They had to put long screws through his hips and into legs to draw them back together. That is horrible and will get a high school kid bedridden then into a wheel chair for a month or two. Not at all surprised Sumner can have some really sore knees. Hope he gets well soon and uses the time to hit the weights.

[Emp]

So much upside to this guy. I thought he could help this year, but if he's hurting, better decision to redshirt. Size, speed,range, Good basketball IQ and sense of the floor, impetuous jacking of 3s early in possessions notwithstanding.

[LA Muskie]

For some reason I find this part of the article confusing. What's the point of dressing for a game if you aren't going to play, or even hope to play because doing so would say you are OK enough, and don't need to be redshirted.

What's more confusing is that they have to wait until the end of the year for the redshirt approval. If he was better in February, you wouldn't know whether you could use him if needed. If you didn't, and they didn't grant it, you'd have lost a full year of his eligibility, and maybe his services at a critical juncture in the conference play.

NB: I may be just too confused to understand this process.

It's not approved until the season is over because the standards require assessing whether the factors have been met. Since he theoretically is eligible to play, they need to make sure he (i) does not play in the 2nd half of the season and (II) does not play in more than 30% of the team's scheduled games.

That said, if we shut him down the approval, as Juice said, is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

[Cheesehead]

Gotta believe XU staff knows what they are doing w/ these situations. I don't expect any surprises on this one.

[UCGRAD4X]

I don't expect any surprises on this one.

Um, ok. What would make it a surprise?