Games involving other Big East Conference Members 2014-2015

[MADXSTER]

Brown has this one in the bag

[GoMuskies]

Jordan Spieth's kid brother has some game.

[Masterofreality]

Boy, that is one BAD loss for the Friars...at home...to a 4-6 team.

I guess like Michigan losing to NJIT...it happens.

[casualfan]

Boy, that is one BAD loss for the Friars...at home...to a 4-6 team.

I guess like Michigan losing to NJIT...it happens.

It looks like Providence is heading the wrong direction having lost their last three.

Their next four games are pretty tough even though they are all at the Dunk. They get Rhode Island, UMASS, and a ranked Miami squad with a match against a tough Stony Brook team sandwiched in there.

I'm really hoping they can win 3 of those 4 and get back on track as I feel like they will be a tough team to play twice.

[X-band '01]

Overall, there are only 3 games that will stick out like a sore thumb for the conference - Lehigh over DePaul, Nebraska-Omaha over Marquette and now Brown over Providence.

Xavier's pair of losses in California didn't help, but at least you could say those were on neutral floors.

Honestly, if you're looking for a team that will be easy to play twice, the only answer is DePaul. Even that could change if they find a way to win at GW this week.

[casualfan]

Overall, there are only 3 games that will stick out like a sore thumb for the conference - Lehigh over DePaul, Nebraska-Omaha over Marquette and now Brown over Providence.

Xavier's pair of losses in California didn't help, but at least you could say those were on neutral floors.

Honestly, if you're looking for a team that will be easy to play twice, the only answer is DePaul. Even that could change if they find a way to win at GW this week.

I think you're starting to see why they booked such a weak non-conference schedule. The conference slate is going to be a grind.

The problem with doing that is you give yourself very little margin for error in conference play when you have a few bad losses in the nonconference . Add to that no opportunities for big wins OOC and you have next to no margin for error in conference play.

Let's assume we win our next 4 and make it to conference play 10-2. If we then go 10-8 in conference we'd end up 20-10 with the shootout making us 21-10 or 20-11.

That's almost the exact same record we had last year when we barely snuck into the tournament.

I certainly doing a lot of assuming here and if we go say 12 and 6 in conference none of this will matter.

I just can't help but pay attention to the pit in my stomach thinking we're going to be a team sweating it out on selection sunday because of our cottonball soft OOC schedule.

[Masterofreality]

Well, we'd better beat SucKS and win at least 10-11 League games.

We honestly cannot afford another OOC loss.

[casualfan]

Well, we'd better beat SucKS and win at least 10-11 League games.

We honestly cannot afford another OOC loss.

To back that up here is where each of our remaining OOC foes are projected to finish RPI wise.

IUPUI- 285
Missouri- 156
Auburn- 186
FGCU- 61
Cincinnati- 50

Neither FGCU nor Cincy would be a bad loss per se, but given the fact that we don't currently have any wins over OOC teams projected to finish in the top 50 we should probably win those two.

[paulxu]

I just can't help but pay attention to the pit in my stomach thinking we're going to be a team sweating it out on selection sunday because of our cottonball soft OOC schedule.

I don't think our schedule will hurt us; losing the 2 games we should have won will hurt us.

[Emp]

Losing an early game it was supposed to win at home apparently didn't crush the Buckeyes at the end of the season.

Just win baby. The talent is there, will it jell into a team?

[drudy23]

If we go 10-8 in conference, we're in trouble. No great wins and 10 total losses will not get us in.

[XU2011]

I don't think our schedule will hurt us; losing the 2 games we should have won will hurt us.

Somewhat agreed. Right now, we NO margin for error in the rest of non-conference. That is because we lost 2 games we should have never lost in an empty neutral gym.

However, because we were even in that tournament in the first place combined with the rest of our OOC, we have no margin for error because we have no opportunities for good wins.

[casualfan]

I don't think our schedule will hurt us; losing the 2 games we should have won will hurt us.

You're right. If we had won every game we should have won the schedule probably wouldn't be an issue.

That's a ridiculous assumption though. Only a fool would schedule assuming we would win every game we're supposed to. There are always bound to be a few games where either you play below your abilities, the opponent plays above theirs, or there is a combo of both leading to an unexpected result.

From that standpoint, our OOC schedule has hurt us because we didn't build in any opportunities for wins that would make up for those kinds of losses.

We started the year with a pretty thin margin for error and with a few unexpected losses that margin has only shrunk.

[Masterofreality]

This is the same old thing we always deal with. Everybody, with the probable exception of Kentucky, will have blemishes and some will have multiple. The League is showing up to be very strong and if you can finish with 10 league wins and not blow chunks in the OOC with, say 4 losses, I think you're in. Remember how all those years the 8th place Big East team with 19 wins would sneak in? We focus on us all the time, but other schools have major F-ups too.

Somebody has to fill 68 slots and they're not coming from the A10 or the AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC this year. The SEC won't get more than 3 either.

[xubrew]

Butler is ranked 15th?!? Congrats to Butler on the nice start, but that ranking is false.

Please don't say that. Everyone needs to stop saying that. Because everyone is saying they shouldn't be that high (and, they really shouldn't, but), Butler will suddenly become that good.

If everyone were to start talking about how good Butler is instead how they're overrated, or lucky, or that they're program isn't going to sustain success, then maybe they'd stop being so good. They always seem to be good whenever everyone says they won't be.

[GoMuskies]

Please don't say that. Everyone needs to stop saying that. Because everyone is saying they shouldn't be that high (and, they really shouldn't, but), Butler will suddenly become that good.

I'm fine with Butler being that good. It's just that they're not.

[GoMuskies]

Nice win for Nova. Not a bad showing for the Hall, either, but they weren't going to win at Charles Koch Arena.

[waggy]

Do you know what the spread on the Seton Hall game was?

[GoMuskies]

12.5

[waggy]

Couple late 3's to cover the spread.

[xu82]

Couple late 3's to cover the spread.
Hope no one lost the farm over that. If you did, the problem was not the made 3's.
:-)

[waggy]

I did not have anything, but I would've taken the points.

[xu82]

Are you kidding me? Anyone watching Creighton?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Wow, yes I am , SD with a killer turnover there.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Wow and the 3 ties it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Double OT

[D-West & PO-Z]

Creighton avoids a bad home loss in double OT, wins by 3.

[GoMuskies]

The Big East is currently 16-8 against other power conferences.

The Big 12 is 20-12 (they have smartly played 17 games against the SEC already).

The Big Ten is 21-20

The Pac 12 is 4-15

The ACC is 20-16

The SEC is 14-24

[BMoreX]

The Big East is currently 16-8 against other power conferences.

The Big 12 is 20-12 (they have smartly played 17 games against the SEC already).

The Big Ten is 21-20

The Pac 12 is 4-15

The ACC is 20-16

The SEC is 14-24

There's a Big 12/SEC Challenge.

[GoMuskies]

There's a Big 12/SEC Challenge.

Which is a brilliant move by the Big XII. Wish we could have gotten to them first.

[BMoreX]

Which is a brilliant move by the Big XII. Wish we could have gotten to them first.

Xavier doing its part with 3 games vs. SEC this year.


In other news, Georgetown has a big game at home vs. Kansas tonight.

[xudash]

Xavier doing its part with 3 games vs. SEC this year.


In other news, Georgetown has a big game at home vs. Kansas tonight.

They're in a war with them right now, holding their own. I wish they could cut down on some of the turnovers. But they're in it: 39 all at the 15'ish minute mark.

[paulxu]

Get some Hoyas (until 12/31).

[xu82]

Nice. Kansas went TO Georgetown. 6-0 run for Kansas since I checked in - going back to my movie! I'm bad luck.

[Masterofreality]

DSR is killing Georgetown tonight. Playing horribly and making very bad decisions.

[GoMuskies]

Smith could eat Lucas.

[GoMuskies]

Stain vs Smith should be fun.

[Masterofreality]

Meanwhile, Providence beats Rhody by 8 68-60.

[GoMuskies]

I guess that makes Brown kings of the Ocean State.

[xu82]

Stain vs Smith should be fun.

Not often Stain will give up 80 pounds. Dee get out sized, sure.... Stain? Not so much.
(But that's close to where he used to be - imagine!)

[GoMuskies]

The old DePaul we all know and hate has shown up tonight in one of our favorite old haunts...the Smith Center.

[waggy]

Doesn't DePaul actually have a road win?

[GoMuskies]

Doesn't DePaul actually have a road win?

yes, they won at Chicago State

[waggy]

yes, they won at Chicago State

I guess that means all you got left is McDermott can't coach.

[GoMuskies]

Huh?

[xubrew]

I guess that means all you got left is McDermott can't coach.

That's been my belief for years. I'm more surprised by Creighton than any other Big East team, and it's not even close. I think he's done better this year than he did the last two years considering the personnel overhaul he had to deal with. Granted, there are a few head scratchers. How do they win at Nebraska, and then come home and then need double overtime to get past South Dakota?? They also lost at Tulsa rather badly, and Tulsa is a shit show. But, they've been WAAYYY better than I thought they'd be.

We've seen this before, though. McDermott had some teams at Northern Iowa and at Iowa State that destroyed the planet until about mid-January and then fell off the face of the Earth, which is one of the reasons I've never bought into him as being a really good coach. It could be that this year's Creighton team is just the latest edition of what he typically does. But, as of now, I'm impressed. I thought they'd royally suck, and right now they're actually pretty good.

[Juice]

That's been my belief for years. I'm more surprised by Creighton than any other Big East team, and it's not even close. I think he's done better this year than he did the last two years considering the personnel overhaul he had to deal with. Granted, there are a few head scratchers. How do they win at Nebraska, and then come home and then need double overtime to get past South Dakota?? They also lost at Tulsa rather badly, and Tulsa is a shit show. But, they've been WAAYYY better than I thought they'd be.

We've seen this before, though. McDermott had some teams at Northern Iowa and at Iowa State that destroyed the planet until about mid-January and then fell off the face of the Earth, which is one of the reasons I've never bought into him as being a really good coach. It could be that this year's Creighton team is just the latest edition of what he typically does. But, as of now, I'm impressed. I thought they'd royally suck, and right now they're actually pretty good.

I was drinking the Nebraska Kool-aid before the season started but they don't appear nearly as good as good as people thought they would be. I think it will be a decent to good road win for Creighton in the end, but Nebraska has lost to Rhode Island and Incarnate Word (who?).

[Mrs. Garrett]

The old DePaul we all know and hate has shown up tonight in one of our favorite old haunts...the Smith Center.

As a life long Chicagoan (besides my 4 years at X), I watch a lot of DePaul basketball when it doesn't conflict with X games. While this year's team isn't great they are much improved from prior years and if taken for granted could pull off some upsets. They have some solid newcomers and are still figuring some things out. Rumor has it their best player hasn't even played a game yet, but should be back from injury by the time BE play begins to give them some much needed help down low.

At the very least I think they finish a head of Marquette this year.

[Masterofreality]

As a life long Chicagoan (besides my 4 years at X), I watch a lot of DePaul basketball when it doesn't conflict with X games. While this year's team isn't great they are much improved from prior years and if taken for granted could pull off some upsets. They have some solid newcomers and are still figuring some things out. Rumor has it their best player hasn't even played a game yet, but should be back from injury by the time BE play begins to give them some much needed help down low.

At the very least I think they finish a head of Marquette this year.

But, Oliver Purnell is still their coach, they play horrific defense and make ridiculously bad decisions. There's that.

[MADXSTER]

Xavier has bettered themselves so much over the last 25 years.

MCC - typically ranked 17th ish
A10 - typically ranked from 7-10th
BE - last year ranked 4th and this year sitting at 2nd thus far, but you could realistically say somewhere between 1st - 6th

DePaul may not be the best but at least they have a nationally recognized name.

[Masterofreality]

That was a bad bad home loss by Creighton today. Should have won that game.

[MADXSTER]

Nova taking care of Temple.

[paulxu]

What happened to Butler?
+9 1st half.
-21 second half.

[xubrew]

What happened to Butler?
+9 1st half.
-21 second half.

Their defense was medocre, and their offense was terrible. Other than that, they had a great second half.

[xudash]

DePaul. What a hot mess at the end of this game.

They are going down to the Illinois State at home.

[bleedXblue]

DePaul literally crapped down their leg......embarrassing. If Purnell lasts past this year it will be a miracle.

[Masterofreality]

DePaul literally crapped down their leg......embarrassing. If Purnell lasts past this year it will be a miracle.

DePaul really did DePuke all over themselves yesterday. Had a 3 point lead and the ball with about 35 seconds left when some Blue Demon refugee from a Bob Marley concert with ridiculous dreadlocks decided to attack the rim with no chance of scoring and threw up the worst piece of crap shot that didn't come close to hitting the rim. Illinois State comes down, hits a 3 and gets fouled in the process. 4 point play and the lead and DePaul's next possession was garbage too. An incredible level of suck.

Oliver Purnell's coaching reached a new low yesterday and his team is one of the most undisciplined and most unaware of time and score that I have seen for a very, very long time.

[GoMuskies]

Not sure if Arizona State is any good, but it's nice to see Marquette beat them.

[waggy]

They have a stretch of home games before conference play.

[BMoreX]

Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
Luke Fischer is going to completely change Marquette. 6-11 big man with 19, 9, and 5 blocks in Golden Eagles' win over Arizona State.

[Xville]

[QUOTE=BMoreX;472704]Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
Luke Fischer is going to completely change Marquette. 6-11 big man with 19, 9, and 5 blocks in Golden Eagles' win over Arizona State.[/QUOTE

That's good news for the conference as a whole. Looking at Marquette's schedule, they should go on a little bit of a run here. They have three non-con games left that they should all win, then play providence at home and depaul on the road. They may only lose one game @ georgetown before they come to Cintas on 1/17.

[bleedXblue]

What's interesting with Marquette is that they don't have their traditional big, physical guards to deal with. They look very different from years past. Some on this board think they are going to tank and we should win easily up there. I don't see it. I see them finishing around the middle of the pack.

[Xville]

What's interesting with Marquette is that they don't have their traditional big, physical guards to deal with. They look very different from years past. Some on this board think they are going to tank and we should win easily up there. I don't see it. I see them finishing around the middle of the pack.

I don't see that either. Yes right now they have a pretty poor record. However, outside of one stinker, their other three losses are to Michigan State, Wisconsin and Ohio State and they were in all three of them. Marquette is not DePaul.

[sgarcia]

Luke Fischer changes everything for that team. If he stays out of foul trouble since he's their only true big man, I can see them finishing in the top half of the league.

[PMI]

What's interesting with Marquette is that they don't have their traditional big, physical guards to deal with. They look very different from years past. Some on this board think they are going to tank and we should win easily up there. I don't see it. I see them finishing around the middle of the pack.

Who on this board thinks we are going to win easily up there?

[PMI]

[QUOTE=BMoreX;472704]Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
Luke Fischer is going to completely change Marquette. 6-11 big man with 19, 9, and 5 blocks in Golden Eagles' win over Arizona State.[/QUOTE

That's good news for the conference as a whole. Looking at Marquette's schedule, they should go on a little bit of a run here. They have three non-con games left that they should all win, then play providence at home and depaul on the road. They may only lose one game @ georgetown before they come to Cintas on 1/17.

I think it's actually a bad thing for the league. Marquette can't undo those shitty losses, and now they may play spoiler to some of the teams who are actually in at-large contention.

[Xville]

[QUOTE=Xville;472705]

I think it's actually a bad thing for the league. Marquette can't undo those shitty losses, and now they may play spoiler to some of the teams who are actually in at-large contention.

they have one crappy loss, albeit a really really crappy one...the other three are to ranked teams....one of them a final four contender. They are only 9 games into the season, i think its a little early to be calling them a spoiler especially when Luke just got on board. I know its probably a little too early to also be looking at this, but their rpi right now is 60....they are only going to get better. Personally, i think its really bad for the league to have more than one Depaul, especially in a ten team league.

[Chalmers0]

Marquette looked impressive last night for the most part but I am pretty stunned to see people saying they could finish in the top half of the league now. Who are they going to pass? I still think they finish above Creighton and DePaul, MAYBE Butler since I'm still not 100% sold on them, MAYBE Providence. I don't think there is any chance they finish higher than 6th, and that's the absolute ceiling for them IMO. Next year, however...lookout.

[Xville]

Marquette looked impressive last night for the most part but I am pretty stunned to see people saying they could finish in the top half of the league now. Who are they going to pass? I still think they finish above Creighton and DePaul, MAYBE Butler since I'm still not 100% sold on them, MAYBE Providence. I don't think there is any chance they finish higher than 6th, and that's the absolute ceiling for them IMO. Next year, however...lookout.

I think outside of Villanova probably winning the league, which is not a sure thing, but they do look like the most complete team, I think its pretty hard to slot where the rest of the teams are going to end up. The rest of the teams, in my opinion, all have their question marks. Depaul will probably finish last, Villanova first, the rest I think at this point is anyone's guess.

Are any of us really sold on Seton Hall, Butler, St. John's, Providence, Creighton etc at this point? Gun to my head, I see Villanova, Georgetown, St. Johns and us at the top half of the league...after that, I'm not sure.

[bleedXblue]

I think outside of Villanova probably winning the league, which is not a sure thing, but they do look like the most complete team, I think its pretty hard to slot where the rest of the teams are going to end up. The rest of the teams, in my opinion, all have their question marks. Depaul will probably finish last, Villanova first, the rest I think at this point is anyone's guess.

Are any of us really sold on Seton Hall, Butler, St. John's, Providence, Creighton etc at this point? Gun to my head, I see Villanova, Georgetown, St. Johns and us at the top half of the league...after that, I'm not sure.

Could not have said it better. A lot of solid teams in the league and then there's DePaul.

[Masterofreality]

Seton Hall goes to AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC member South Florida's gym, eats their food, steals their women and absconds with their pets...and wipes them by 20.

Then there's DePaul. Losing by 21 at Oregon State with 14 minutes to go. Well done Ollie.

[xu82]

Then there's Depaul.... how many times will we hear that?

[muskiefan82]

Then there's Depaul.... how many times will we hear that?

All conferences need at least one team to feast on. It gives the other teams a break when they look at their schedule and see @Georgetown, Villanova, @St. Johns, Depaul, @ Xavier, Providence, etc...

You have to think "Thank God Depaul is in there to give us at least one win"

It's also good for the lower level division 1 teams to be able to get a win over a big conference team.

[xu82]

All conferences need at least one team to feast on. It gives the other teams a break when they look at their schedule and see @Georgetown, Villanova, @St. Johns, Depaul, @ Xavier, Providence, etc...

You have to think "Thank God Depaul is in there to give us at least one win"

It's also good for the lower level division 1 teams to be able to get a win over a big conference team.

Well, if it's part of God's plan, who am I to argue.

[paulxu]

Fascinating to me that Butler given up for dead with coaching change, coaching loss, etc., and now they are ranked.

[waggy]

Some big games today.

Charlotte at G-Town is interesting. All I know about Charlotte is that Pierra Henry is still there, and he's a pretty tough guy to handle. ESPN has the line at 13.5, I think I'd take the points in that one.

[paulxu]

It would be nice if league leading Nova would step it up a little against Syracuse.

[Jesuit4Life]

The bottom third of the screen on FOX looks like it has perpetual dandruff.

[paulxu]

And the Hoyas trying to lay an egg.

[xu82]

It would be nice if league leading Nova would step it up a little against Syracuse.



They're going to have to really step it up in the second half, down a dozen at halftime... and at home.

[paulxu]

ESPN has the line at 13.5, I think I'd take the points in that one.

Good call.

[xu82]

UNC currently up 16 on Ohio State with 8 minutes left. I love it.

[Xville]

Missouri up 1 late in the first half against illinois. This would be a big win for the young tigers and help xavier in the process. Illinois isn't great but they are probably better than three fourths of the teams in the sec

[xudash]

Nova fighting back.

[Xville]

Wow what a game...Villanova is a really easy team to root for.

[Retire33]

That's was awesome...now crush them in OT


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

I can't see the game, but they have never led, and apparently tied the game up when down by 5 with 15 seconds left. Impressive.

Go get'em in OT Nova.

[Jesuit4Life]

Should be on your local FOX channel.

[Retire33]

That was a terrible block call... Looked like an obvious no call to me


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Xville]

Nova wins...love seeing douche bag boheim lose anytime. Missouri also up 3 with less than 8 minutes left.

[Masterofreality]

Villanova: GROWN. MAN. BASKETBALL.

That was a war. I hope our guys get "seasoned" real fast.

That is also the stuff that will make Big Fox put more Big East teams games on.

[Masterofreality]

In other news, Providence boat races UMess.

The order of the Universe as to the A10 is fully restored after last year's vortex.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I was in my complexes gym and kind of shouted when nova stole it and tied it. Luckily there was only one guy on there who had head phones on. Way to fight until the end there by Nova. I also love seeing Boeheim lose.

[Xavgrad08]

Butler loses to Indiana University. I hate seeing Tom Crean win.

[paulxu]

Butler...coming down to earth.

Time to hold up our place in this league.

[sirthought]

Butler...coming down to earth.

Time to hold up our place in this league.

They had their chances. It was a pretty good game overall.

[waggy]

Indiana is better than I expected them to be.

[paulxu]

Not a good day for the BE.

[waggy]

4-1 today/night. Providence and St. Johns with good wins.

[Cheesehead]

Marquette beat a pesky North Dakota squad

[mohr5150]

If we don't destroy DePaul twice this season, we don't deserve to go to the tournament. OU is horrible, and they are whooping DePaul in the first half.

[GoMuskies]

Yes, DePaul has issues.

[paulxu]

NJIT beats Michigan, loses to Holy Cross, and decides to give Nova something to worry about.

[Cheesehead]

Texas loses to Stanford at home and Wichita State locked in close game at Hawaii. Kansas got pounded by Temple last night. One just never knows in the world of college basketball or all sports, for that matter.

[RealDeal]

DePaul literally crapped down their leg......embarrassing. If Purnell lasts past this year it will be a miracle.

You literally don't know what literally means.

[PMI]

Texas loses to Stanford at home and Wichita State locked in close game at Hawaii. Kansas got pounded by Temple last night. One just never knows in the world of college basketball or all sports, for that matter.

Nah, the folks on this board know. It just means none of those teams are going to the tournament, and their coaches can't instill toughness.

[xu82]

Nah, the folks on this board know. It just means none of those teams are going to the tournament, and their coaches can't instill toughness.
Finally, someone who gets it! None of those teams will go to the tournament. Unless, of course, they do.
I'm not saying we make it, just that it's far too soon to know.

[OH.X.MI]

You literally don't know what literally means.

Au contraire! BleedXblue is using "literally" in accordance with most updated dictionaries!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/literally?q=literally

Though I agree, the King's English should not be subjected to such frivolous changes!

[X-man]

Nah, the folks on this board know. It just means none of those teams are going to the tournament, and their coaches can't instill toughness.

Add Arizona to the list of teams not going.

[Masterofreality]

Add Arizona to the list of teams not going.

Horrors!!! The Desert Raccoon, anointed by some on here as the Be All and End All of great Xavier coaches blows a game to a KenPom sub 100 team!

He's never made a Final 4 so that means he's horrible, right?

[paulxu]

He's never made a Final 4 so that means he's horrible, right?

I think it means he should be fired.

[xu82]

Nice OT win for Georgetown over Indiana.

[xu82]

St John's taking care of Tulane at the half by a score of 47-22. I guess that's what happens when you put a good team and a bad team on the same court at the same time.

EDIT: not sure who they played but Tulane came in 9-2.

[bleedXblue]

Nice OT win for Georgetown over Indiana.

I like GTowns team. They have a savvy floor leader who can score, a big man in the middle who's tough to guard and they have a lot of athleticism to boot. I think X will have their hands full Wednesday night to say the least. It will take our best effort to pull off a W.

[paulxu]

Good day for the BE.

[BMoreX]

X will have a chance for a top 25 as the Hoyas were just names #25 by the Associated Press.

[Masterofreality]

Good day for the BE.

So, with basically the entire non-conference schedule complete, other than us vs SucKS and a couple other games, the Big East is #2 in RPI and #3 in Conference Strength of Schedule.

Yeah, I'd say the league passed through the crossroads just fine Ms. O'Neill.

[paulxu]

Yeah, I'd say the league passed through the crossroads just fine Ms. O'Neill.

Hah!

[paulxu]

Here's a good site to compare OOC results by conference.
The BE owned the ACC and the A10.
Our Auburn loss contributed to actually having a losing record with the SEC.
Interesting that we played 3 SEC teams, and no one else played more than 1.

http://colleyrankings.com/hcurconf.html

[Xville]

Seton hall seems to have a pretty good ballclub. Not sure what the timetable is on whiteheads return, but if he returns soon, I could see them contending for the top half of the league.

[94GRAD]

Seton hall seems to have a pretty good ballclub. Not sure what the timetable is on whiteheads return, but if he returns soon, I could see them contending for the top half of the league.


Saying he could miss as many as 5 conference games

[BMoreX]

SHU up 9 with 8 to go

[Masterofreality]

Gotta tell you, and it's not just because we are now in this league,

But these league games are so much more entertaining than the old Big East. More scoring, less thuggery. Less 50-49 games, better offense. This may change as the games are played more closely together, and fatigue comes into play, but there just seems to be more skill.

[paulxu]

Would not have thought SH could beat St Johns by 11.

[PMI]

Gotta tell you, and it's not just because we are now in this league,

But these league games are so much more entertaining than the old Big East. More scoring, less thuggery. Less 50-49 games, better offense. This may change as the games are played more closely together, and fatigue comes into play, but there just seems to be more skill.

More skill now than in the old Big East? I love this league, but let's not get carried away.

[mohr5150]

I watched a considerable amount of the MSU/Maryland game yesterday, and that was a horrible display of basketball skill. The purpose of basketball is to score and to keep the other team from scoring. Most of the Big Ten only got half the memo. At least these Big East games have solid offensive sets mixed with some good defense. In my opinion, much better basketball.

[BMoreX]

I watched a considerable amount of the MSU/Maryland game yesterday, and that was a horrible display of basketball skill. The purpose of basketball is to score and to keep the other team from scoring. Most of the Big Ten only got half the memo. At least these Big East games have solid offensive sets mixed with some good defense. In my opinion, much better basketball.

Maryland shot awful from beyond the arc last night. At one point they were something like 1 of 15. They are usually much better.

[PMI]

I watched a considerable amount of the MSU/Maryland game yesterday, and that was a horrible display of basketball skill. The purpose of basketball is to score and to keep the other team from scoring. Most of the Big Ten only got half the memo. At least these Big East games have solid offensive sets mixed with some good defense. In my opinion, much better basketball.

I watched the whole game. It was a very ugly basketball game, but not a reflection of a typical Big Ten game. There is plenty of skill in the Big Ten, believe that.

[X-band '01]

Would not have thought SH could beat St Johns by 11.

It was Seton Hall's home game. It also tells me that the Pirates are more than a one-man show, which does bode well for the league come March.

[X-band '01]

Oh good - I think I can make my final 2014 run to the bank while Marquette and DePaul are playing the middle game. Nothing to miss here.

[XU2011]

DePaul goes 0-3 in Hawaii, including getting blown out by Ohio U, losing to Loyola Marymount and lost their last 6 games... with a RPI of 265... but has now went on a huge run and took the lead against Marquette with 1 minute left.

DePaul should go 0-18 for the sake of the conference.

[BMoreX]

God dammit DePaul

[waggy]

I guess Wojo should've told them to swing harder.

[XUFan09]

Marquette is outside the top 100 right now. I know they've had Luke Fischer for four games now, but they weren't likely to be a tournament contender with his addition. I just hope they still break the RPI top 100 so that they don't count as a bad loss for anyone they might beat.

[principal]

It's the A10 all over again. ;)

[xudash]

DePaul goes 0-3 in Hawaii, including getting blown out by Ohio U, losing to Loyola Marymount and lost their last 6 games... with a RPI of 265... but has now went on a huge run and took the lead against Marquette with 1 minute left.

DePaul should go 0-18 for the sake of the conference.

Make that 1 - 17 now.

DePaul can't linger; it needs to fail big so that the Prez will clean house in athletics.

[X-band '01]

I guess Wojo should've told them to swing harder.

DePaul said boo and Marquette played scared for the final 10 minutes of that game.

[GoMuskies]

Haha Wojo

[X Factor]

This is crazy. Providence is up 8 on Creighton. Providence has 47 points. Henton has 30 of them. The next highest scorer for PC has 5 points.

[XUFan09]

This is crazy. Providence is up 8 on Creighton. Providence has 47 points. Henton has 30 of them. The next highest scorer for PC has 5 points.
And it's not like he's having to bail out his team or anything like that. They come within the flow of the offense and he's been efficient.

[XUFan09]

Kris Dunn is LONG. Wow, he might be longer than Semaj. He has the fifth highest steal rate in the country at 5.8%.

EDIT: And his assist rate of 49.1% is second only to a guy we already faced, FGCU's Brett Comer.

[xubrew]

Yesterday was great. I like how they have a quintupleheader to kick off conference play.

Now, with that being said, I think it would be great if they did that EVERY Saturday. Fox paid a ton for it. They might as well get as much of it on as possible. I'd like there to be a Saturday "Game of the Week" on the Flagship Network early in the afternoon, and they could have the other four games on FS1 after the big game. They could do it every Saturday. Other than the Pac Twelve, which is limited, does Fox have any other deals as big and as extensive as the one they have with the Big East??

[Masterofreality]

Yesterday was great. I like how they have a quintupleheader to kick off conference play.

Now, with that being said, I think it would be great if they did that EVERY Saturday. Fox paid a ton for it. They might as well get as much of it on as possible. I'd like there to be a Saturday "Game of the Week" on the Flagship Network early in the afternoon, and they could have the other four games on FS1 after the big game. They could do it every Saturday. Other than the Pac Twelve, which is limited, does Fox have any other deals as big and as extensive as the one they have with the Big East??

Fox is behind the Big 10 network. They are also deeply in bed with the Big 12.

[smileyy]

Kris Dunn is LONG. Wow, he might be longer than Semaj. He has the fifth highest steal rate in the country at 5.8%.

EDIT: And his assist rate of 49.1% is second only to a guy we already faced, FGCU's Brett Comer.

If he has huge hands, he could be a Rondo-like kind of guy. For what that's worth.

[xubrew]

Fox is behind the Big 10 network. They are also deeply in bed with the Big 12.

Thanks for clarifying. I meant FS1 specifically. I know that's not what I said, but that's what I was meaning to say.

[bigdiggins]

If he has huge hands, he could be a Rondo-like kind of guy. For what that's worth.

A brooding @ss? What's that got to do with his hands?

[Masterofreality]

The Big East now has 7 of it's 10 teams in the Top 48 of the RPI.

I love this league.

[BMoreX]

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 2h2 hours ago

Steve Lavin told ESPN that Rysheed Jordan taking indefinite leave of absence.

[GoMuskies]

With their loss to Georgetown on Saturday, Creighton fell to 9-6, 0-2. Their current three game losing streak includes a loss at North Texas, the last place team at the moment in C-USA. DePaul is visiting Creighton Wednesday night. What will the mood be like in Omaha for that one? Will the fans still show up 17,000 loud and proud to support their team? If not, could the unthinkable happen? Could DePaul get a road win to get to 3-0 in the league? You'd think that sort of loss might send Creighton's season into an absolute death spiral.

[casualfan]

With their loss to Georgetown on Saturday, Creighton fell to 9-6, 0-2. Their current three game losing streak includes a loss at North Texas, the last place team at the moment in C-USA. DePaul is visiting Creighton Wednesday night. What will the mood be like in Omaha for that one? Will the fans still show up 17,000 loud and proud to support their team? If not, could the unthinkable happen? Could DePaul get a road win to get to 3-0 in the league? You'd think that sort of loss might send Creighton's season into an absolute death spiral.

To me Depaul is scary because although they didn't look like a great team they also didn't look like a terrible one or at least one as bad as their computer numbers. They certainly didn't look like a team that lost to Ohio by 20 recently.

Now I doubt they'll hit 50% from 3 in many games this year, especially when shooting 20 of them, but they have some players.

Could be a thorn in some teams' side as conference play rolls on.

[GoMuskies]

St. John's gets a bit of respect not falling out of the top 25 after two losses to unranked teams.

[xukeith]

St. John's gets a bit of respect not falling out of the top 25 after two losses to unranked teams.

X gets 2 votes in AP poll. looks like if X wins 5 in a row, they will be ranked. Need 100% healthy team that plays 35 minutes of solid defense.

[LA Muskie]

X gets 2 votes in AP poll. looks like if X wins 5 in a row, they will be ranked. Need 100% healthy team that plays 35 minutes of solid defense.
I just looked at our schedule, and unless I'm missing something there is no 5-game stretch that wouldn't require winning at least 2 on the road. So I think we all recognize the difficulty in putting together a run of 5 in a row. The best shot we have is probably beginning Feb. 4th -- when we play:

At Home vs. Creighton
At Home vs. Providence
Away at Marquette
At Home vs. St. John's
Away at UC

[PMI]

My Butler hatred aside, Kellen Dunham has got to have the least likable game in the Big East. He must watch a lot of Kyrie Irving, JR Smith, Josh Smith etc. It's like anytime you need a bad forced shot, particularly at the worst possible moment, Dunham is there to take care of the job. Of course, he'll probably go off for 35 against us going 8-8 on fadeaway contested threes...

[Irishdawg]

My Butler hatred aside, Kellen Dunham has got to have the least likable game in the Big East. He must watch a lot of Kyrie Irving, JR Smith, Josh Smith etc. It's like anytime you need a bad forced shot, particularly at the worst possible moment, Dunham is there to take care of the job. Of course, he'll probably go off for 35 against us going 8-8 on fadeaway contested threes...

To be fair, he is the only offensive option that Butler has, so he pretty much has to force shots. I don't see Xavier letting him get going on Saturday. I do agree that there are times that he rushes things or doesn't take the best shot available, but there's a tremendous amount of pressure on this kid to score since no one else on our team can on a consistent basis.

[bleedXblue]

To be fair, he is the only offensive option that Butler has, so he pretty much has to force shots. I don't see Xavier letting him get going on Saturday. I do agree that there are times that he rushes things or doesn't take the best shot available, but there's a tremendous amount of pressure on this kid to score since no one else on our team can on a consistent basis.

PMI has serious issue with Dunham.

He had even less help last year. I don't think Dunham is all that great either, but when he gets hot, he gets hot.

I hope like hell we see a lot of forced shots Saturday.

[PMI]

PMI has serious issue with Dunham.

He had even less help last year. I don't think Dunham is all that great either, but when he gets hot, he gets hot.

I hope like hell we see a lot of forced shots Saturday.

I wouldn't say I have a serious issue with him, as I love watching Butler lose, so I actually kind of love him when he pulls those stunts. But if I were a Butler fan, he would drive me insane. The guy does have a lot of talent and is a gifted scorer. But too often, he plays the game the wrong way, plain and simple. I understand that they rely on his offense, which can cause him to press too much at times. I have no problem with a confident trigger puller -- to a reasonable extent. I've watched about 5 or 6 Butler games in their entirety this season, and there are just way too many instances where he hurts his team. The little fake drive step back three (and often long two) in a defender's face has got to be about a 20% shot for him, and he does it at the worst possible times too often. So often, he seems to do it so often after a good, hard team defensive stop. Plays like that drive me crazy and I'd have to imagine they could be frustrating for his teammates too.

The thing is, when he has even a split second to get his feet set, he's an extremely deadly shooter. His three point percentages are very good, but they come in streaks. He needs to eliminate the hero ball from his game unless they are in a dead end, like at the end of the shot clock or game clock. In all of Butler losses, he has had some head-scratching moments at some big times for a team that is supposed to epitomize TEAM and a system. I am not a fan of any player who routinely takes bad contested shots and provides little else than scoring. Just my preference. I lived through enough years of Nick Young and the like to have developed that.

[Irishdawg]

I wouldn't say I have a serious issue with him, as I love watching Butler lose, so I actually kind of love him when he pulls those stunts. But if I were a Butler fan, he would drive me insane. The guy does have a lot of talent and is a gifted scorer. But too often, he plays the game the wrong way, plain and simple. I understand that they rely on his offense, which can cause him to press too much at times. I have no problem with a confident trigger puller -- to a reasonable extent. I've watched about 5 or 6 Butler games in their entirety this season, and there are just way too many instances where he hurts his team. The little fake drive step back three (and often long two) in a defender's face has got to be about a 20% shot for him, and he does it at the worst possible times too often. So often, he seems to do it so often after a good, hard team defensive stop. Plays like that drive me crazy and I'd have to imagine they could be frustrating for his teammates too.

The thing is, when he has even a split second to get his feet set, he's an extremely deadly shooter. His three point percentages are very good, but they come in streaks. He needs to eliminate the hero ball from his game unless they are in a dead end, like at the end of the shot clock or game clock. In all of Butler losses, he has had some head-scratching moments at some big times for a team that is supposed to epitomize TEAM and a system. I am not a fan of any player who routinely takes bad contested shots and provides little else than scoring. Just my preference. I lived through enough years of Nick Young and the like to have developed that.

I respect your difference in opinion. Out of the 8 guys that play consistently for Butler, outside of Dunham, I might trust 1 other guy (Barlow) to take an open shot outside of 5 feet, and even that's not consistent. Dunham is far and away Butler's most efficient offensive player, with an offensive rating that's slightly higher than Bluiett's even with the possessions that you talk about.

The problem is with the personnel they have, there is no offensive system other than having him run off a million screens and if that doesn't work, give the ball to him or someone else and heave up a shot and hope for a make or an offensive rebound. In their 3 conference games, Butler has shot 38.5% from 2 and 39.6% from 3. Dunham has shot 36% from 2 and 52.9% from 3. Obviously most of his bad shots are from inside the arc, but his teammates are shooting 39% from 2 and 32.3% from 3 in those games, which isn't exactly lighting the world on fire, despite the fact that the opposing defense is so focused on stopping Dunham. Sometimes he does drive me bonkers with the shots he takes, but for Butler to win he essentially has to be perfect, and most nights that's not going to happen.

[PMI]

I respect your difference in opinion. Out of the 8 guys that play consistently for Butler, outside of Dunham, I might trust 1 other guy (Barlow) to take an open shot outside of 5 feet, and even that's not consistent. Dunham is far and away Butler's most efficient offensive player, with an offensive rating that's slightly higher than Bluiett's even with the possessions that you talk about.

The problem is with the personnel they have, there is no offensive system other than having him run off a million screens and if that doesn't work, give the ball to him or someone else and heave up a shot and hope for a make or an offensive rebound. In their 3 conference games, Butler has shot 38.5% from 2 and 39.6% from 3. Dunham has shot 36% from 2 and 52.9% from 3. Obviously most of his bad shots are from inside the arc, but his teammates are shooting 39% from 2 and 32.3% from 3 in those games, which isn't exactly lighting the world on fire, despite the fact that the opposing defense is so focused on stopping Dunham. Sometimes he does drive me bonkers with the shots he takes, but for Butler to win he essentially has to be perfect, and most nights that's not going to happen.

I don't know if he has to be perfect for Butler to win, as is evidenced by your remark that he has not been perfect most nights. I don't necessarily disagree with you that Butler relies on him to carry a lot of the offensive load, at least from the perimeter. I just don't see it as being quite as dire as you put it. I would attack more with Roosevelt Jones if I were you guys. As you say, the opposing defenses are focused on stopping Dunham. That's why he needs to develop more of a game than taking highly contested off balance shots so often, because other guys will be open, and with good ball movement, there are opportunities for easy buckets. I've seen it with Butler this year, but usually once that rhythm gets going, it's soon killed by another bad shot by Dunham. His three point percentages are good, no doubt, but it's the bad shots that seem to come at the worst times that jump out. I wish I could see a split for the percentages of the shots he takes from less than three feet inside the arc, most of which are off the dribble and contested. It might actually be 15%. I just think there's a fine line between having the green light, and having a counter-productive habit of taking bad shots at bad times. Butler's offense would work more efficiently if defenses didn't know they could shadow Dunham and force him to take bad shots, because when the ball moves and he finds open looks, he's very good. That's not all his fault, but the plays that drive you guys bonkers are most often not necessary, and Butler could be much better if he can get those out of his game, or at least limit them to a reasonable amount.

It's the same thing with lots of the NBA guys I mentioned who do little else than look to score in volumes. They can get hot and win you a game. But they cannot be a part of a championship team playing that way.

[Coogles]

I would attack more with Roosevelt Jones if I were you guys. As you say, the opposing defenses are focused on stopping Dunham.

There are definitely occasions where Dunham takes a less-than-ideal shot, but running the offense through Jones isn't going to solve any problems. He's an awful offensive player who's had a sub-100 offensive rating his entire career. The guy hasn't taken a shot outside of 10 feet and is shooting 41% on the year. He's 16 of 45 (35.5%) through 3 conference games.

There isn't much help elsewhere on the roster, either. Martin has had some good outings, but mostly he's struggled against better teams outside of the North Carolina contest. He's in the scouting report now and he's pretty much disappeared the last few games. Chrabascz has his moments but isn't consistent from game to game. His physical limitations are what they are, but he isn't hitting open looks from outside, either. Woods is efficient only because he gets garbage buckets; he's not integral to the offense. The only player who isn't Dunham who should be looking for and taking early shots is Barlow, which is hilarious considering he didn't even come to the program on scholarship. For as much as people praise Stevens (and I'd take him back in a heartbeat), he sure didn't seem to put much interest in recruiting players with offensive talent.

That this team is as competitive as it is with the players they have is a testament to their toughness and Holtman's coaching ability, but it's going to take some new pieces to make this a top tier Big East team.

[PMI]

There are definitely occasions where Dunham takes a less-than-ideal shot, but running the offense through Jones isn't going to solve any problems. He's an awful offensive player who's had a sub-100 offensive rating his entire career. The guy hasn't taken a shot outside of 10 feet and is shooting 41% on the year. He's 16 of 45 (35.5%) through 3 conference games.

There isn't much help elsewhere on the roster, either. Martin has had some good outings, but mostly he's struggled against better teams outside of the North Carolina contest. He's in the scouting report now and he's pretty much disappeared the last few games. Chrabascz has his moments but isn't consistent from game to game. His physical limitations are what they are, but he isn't hitting open looks from outside, either. Woods is efficient only because he gets garbage buckets; he's not integral to the offense. The only player who isn't Dunham who should be looking for and taking early shots is Barlow, which is hilarious considering he didn't even come to the program on scholarship. For as much as people praise Stevens (and I'd take him back in a heartbeat), he sure didn't seem to put much interest in recruiting players with offensive talent.

That this team is as competitive as it is with the players they have is a testament to their toughness and Holtman's coaching ability, but it's going to take some new pieces to make this a top tier Big East team.

I definitely agree with your final paragraph. Butler is not a well-built offensive team in the Big East, but I think you'd agree that you've seen stretches where the ball moves and they find good looks. Butler has played well and won some big games already this year, but I really believe that if Dunham continues to play the way he does, you're looking at another losing year in the Big East. Even if he truly is your only good offensive option, there are still so many ill-advised shots at bad times, early in the shot clock, that kills momentum and the flow of the offense. It isn't hard to see that Butler needs to play complete team basketball on both ends to succeed. Dunham is the only one who gets in the way of that in my opinion. It often yields unfavorable results, and I think last night was another example of that. Even the UNC game that Butler won, Dunham made so many terrible decisions that could've cost them the game. Maybe I don't know what the easy fix would be, but it isn't letting Dunham play street ball whenever he feels like it.

[Irishdawg]

It isn't hard to see that Butler needs to play complete team basketball on both ends to succeed. Dunham is the only one who gets in the way of that in my opinion.

Agree to disagree. Jones has taken 3 more shots than Dunham in their 3 conference games. Of their 8 rotation players, Jones has the worst EFG%. Dunham has the best of those 8 guys. You are more than welcome to your opinion, and this is your board, but to me that just shows that if anyone is preventing Butler from running its most efficient offense, its Jones, and he's playing out of position as the primary ball handler, so I can't be too angry with him because he shouldn't be playing that spot.

If Butler does wind up with a losing season in the Big East, it's a personnel problem, not a Dunham problem. Sure, sometimes they do have their moments when they're moving the ball well, but they are few and far between so far in league play because the opponents know their sets and know how to play them. If Butler had the weapons that Xavier does on offense, things would look better. They don't, so they don't.

[sirthought]

DePaul 54
Creighton 46
11 minutes to go

I am really rooting on DePaul. If they beat us, we might as well ask them to beat everyone else and not make the loss as bad. (I know, fat chance.)

[D-West & PO-Z]

DePaul trying to blow this

[xsteve1]

Looks like Ollie has waken up and finally started to coach. Kind of embarrassing for the league to have DePaul in first.

[waggy]

Kind of embarrassing for the league to have DePaul in first.


This is silly.

[sirthought]

Looks like Ollie has waken up and finally started to coach. Kind of embarrassing for the league to have DePaul in first.

I don't see it that way. DePaul has lost a lot of games, but they often competed pretty hard in those losses. If they are winning now, then maybe their poise is kicking in and they can beat strong teams. Our conference does have some really good teams.

Now 3-0 record. I only wish them the best. As long as Xavier is winning, let's root on DePaul.

[paulxu]

This is silly.

Very, and the only undefeated in-conference team.

[xsteve1]

I don't see it that way. DePaul has lost a lot of games, but they often competed pretty hard in those losses. If they are winning now, then maybe their poise is kicking in and they can beat strong teams. Our conference does have some really good teams.

Now 3-0 record. I only wish them the best. As long as Xavier is winning, let's root on DePaul.

Their road trip to Oregon St. and then that Hawaii tournament was a joke. They didn't even compete in really any of those games. Losing by 30 to Oregon St., 20 to Ohio U, 14 to Colorado and a loss to a really bad LMU. They've competed hard in conference but outside of their Stanford win OOC they've been pretty terrible.

[waggy]

Personally I think Garrett has a world of potential for the college level. The kind of player that can control tempo, and get his team a good shot, and gets more effective closing out games. Reminds me of a guard that John Chaney would have.

[GoMuskies]

I'm cheering for DePaul to do well for the pure silliness of it, but it's definitely an embarrassment for the league to have DePaul in first. If they beat Villanova this weekend it will be a sure sign things have gone completely nuts.

[Strange Brew]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't DePaul get a least one key player back in the game against X?

[xudash]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't DePaul get a least one key player back in the game against X?

Hamilton?

[Irishdawg]

Hamilton?

Correct, he was suspended for their game against Marquette.

[Masterofreality]

Their road trip to Oregon St. and then that Hawaii tournament was a joke. They didn't even compete in really any of those games. Losing by 30 to Oregon St., 20 to Ohio U, 14 to Colorado and a loss to a really bad LMU. They've competed hard in conference but outside of their Stanford win OOC they've been pretty terrible.

They also completely blew a game against Illinois State at home. That was a joke. All of a sudden though Hamilton and Crockett are sinking 3's like they are Jesus Shuttlesworth.

[X-band '01]

Their roll can't possibly continue at Villanova, can it?

I'm starting to wonder how many lives Oliver Purnell has at DePaul.

[Emp]

Blue Jays couldn't but baskets from open looks. Good coaching nibbles away at the margins of close games, but in the end the ball has to go in e basket. Did any one else notice all the empty seats, and I don't mean at the end of the game.

DePaul has athletes and shooters, but like other such teams the fragility of offense confidence is a blessing and a curse when the ball doesn't fall. They're not nearly as bad as everyone is moaning about, and scrambling up into the Rpi top 100 will eliminate a bad loss from our resume.

Go Blue Devils.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't DePaul get a least one key player back in the game against X?

Hamilton was suspended against Marquette and has been out of the starting lineup the last 2 games. He's a me first type of guy and that mind set almost cost them the game last night.

They also got RaShaun Stimage back. He's been injured. Many claimed he was their best player in practice during the preseason. He saw his first action against Creighton last night, but only 5 minutes. He might give them some true post presence once he is back in shape.

[XUFan09]

Blue Jays couldn't but baskets from open looks. Good coaching nibbles away at the margins of close games, but in the end the ball has to go in e basket. Did any one else notice all the empty seats, and I don't mean at the end of the game.

DePaul has athletes and shooters, but like other such teams the fragility of offense confidence is a blessing and a curse when the ball doesn't fall. They're not nearly as bad as everyone is moaning about, and scrambling up into the Rpi top 100 will eliminate a bad loss from our resume.

Go Blue Devils.

If DePaul wins out, their project RPI is 99th. I just want them to win three more games so that they aren't a sub-200 loss.

[PMI]

The very annoying thing about this is that DePaul is still going to finish 9th or 10th in the league. Order will restore to the universe. It's annoying as hell that we had to catch them on the road during their hottest possible streak, because it is going to be a bad loss at the end of the year any way you slice it. Lesser teams than Xavier will go into their place, play worse than we did, and leave with a win, you can count on that. I guess that's where the whole luck thing comes in.

[casualfan]

The very annoying thing about this is that DePaul is still going to finish 9th or 10th in the league. Order will restore to the universe. It's annoying as hell that we had to catch them on the road during their hottest possible streak, because it is going to be a bad loss at the end of the year any way you slice it. Lesser teams than Xavier will go into their place, play worse than we did, and leave with a win, you can count on that. I guess that's where the whole luck thing comes in.

I hear what you are saying, but whether we got them in a hot streak or not we still should have beat them.

There's also two ways to look at it. Did we lose to them because they were hot or was playing us part of what got them hot?

Before they played us they had lost 6 of their last 7 so it's not like we hit a buzz saw that was spinning at full speed.

You are correct they will likely finish in the bottom third of the league, but the two wins they sandwiched around beating us were against the teams they'll likely be in that bottom third with. It's not like they went out and beat a bunch of upper-half big east teams.

[PMI]

I hear what you are saying, but whether we got them in a hot streak or not we still should have beat them.

There's also two ways to look at it. Did we lose to them because they were hot or was playing us part of what got them hot?

Before they played us they had lost 6 of their last 7 so it's not like we hit a buzz saw that was spinning at full speed.

You are correct they will likely finish in the bottom third of the league, but the two wins they sandwiched around beating us were against the teams they'll likely be in that bottom third with. It's not like they went out and beat a bunch of upper-half big east teams.

Oh believe me I'm with you. We didn't play well enough to win and a better team would've beaten them that day. It's just annoying knowing that in most of our off days, we still could've escaped that one with a win. But alas, they played better than they're used to and it's a bad loss. Hopefully it evens out with an unexpected road upset at one of the ranked teams...

[GoMuskies]

Can we get three road wins in this league? That's what it's going to come down to, because we're not losing more than one at home (if that). Can we beat Creighton, Marquette and one more team on the road? DePaul SHOULD have been that team, but the past is the past. I'd like to think that we can. Butler is one of our better chances for a road win, so it's a huge game.

If we can somehow win a 4th road game (particularly if that road game is Villanova), we might just win the damned league. But we've got to get that first road win before the NCAA Tournament is even a relevant topic.

[Masterofreality]

Can we get three road wins in this league? That's what it's going to come down to, because we're not losing more than one at home (if that). Can we beat Creighton, Marquette and one more team on the road? DePaul SHOULD have been that team, but the past is the past. I'd like to think that we can. Butler is one of our better chances for a road win, so it's a huge game.

If we can somehow win a 4th road game (particularly if that road game is Villanova), we might just win the damned league. But we've got to get that first road win before the NCAA Tournament is even a relevant topic.

Potential realistic road wins- Butler, Creighton, Marquette, lesser, but possible- Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's. Probably not GTown. Definitely not- Villanova (although I and EastCoastXMan will be there).

[XUFan09]

Potential realistic road wins- Butler, Creighton, Marquette, lesser, but possible- Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's. Probably not GTown. Definitely not- Villanova (although I and EastCoastXMan will be there).

Kenpom Rankings:

5 - Villanova
24 - Xavier
32 - Seton Hall
34 - Butler
35 - St. John's
42 - Georgetown
45 - Providence
87 - Marquette
117 - Creighton
164 - DePaul

I feel like you're working more off preseason projections (which are to a degree still legitimate) than what these teams have done so far. Butler is definitely not in the same category as Marquette and Creighton. Their defense is really good, though their offense is weak. I feel that we match up well with them, so I would put them as a more likely road win than those you had in the "possible" category, but I wouldn't drop them as far as the lowest category.

Georgetown is interesting, as they haven't lost to a team lower than 35th in Kenpom (Butler) and they have a couple good neutral court wins, but they still are on the back edge of the top 50. Ken Pomeroy talks about this, though, and I think of it as the "Tu Holloway Effect." Metrics using adjusted scoring margins tend to undervalue teams with players that can get to the line at a high rate, as this is one of the most significant factors in close games (luck being another one). Now Georgetown is not a perfect case of this, as their defense is bad at sending opponents to the line (255th in defensive FT rate). Their starting lineup, though, all get to the line at a good rate, with FT rates between 44% and 59%. I think this contributes to them being stronger than their rating suggests, and so I agree with you that they would be a tougher road win than some other good teams in the conference.

[GoMuskies]

Definitely not- Villanova

Are you kidding? Jimmy Farr is going in there and Wragge-ing their asses.

[XUFan09]

Are you kidding? Jimmy Farr is going in there and Wragge-ing their asses.

Oh God, that would trigger some kind of PTSD on Villanova fans.

[Masterofreality]

Boy, this GTown Providence game is a throw back to the old Big East....and that is not in a good way. 34-28 with 12:57 to go...in the SECOND half.

[GoMuskies]

How can the Big East's first place team be 21.5 point underdogs?!?

[GoMuskies]

BTW, I see that Creighton is favored by 2.5 over Seton Hall. That is the kind of line that is just begging me to bet Creighton because it seems like such an obvious Seton Hall play on its face.

[Masterofreality]

GTown had a chance for a 2 for 1 there and f-ed it up. That was horrible coaching and bad recognition. Down 1 with a chance to score them get the ball back if Providence scored, but messed up.

[Masterofreality]

A bail out of JT3 by Josh Smith after a horrible play design and an even worse shot!

[Masterofreality]

Free Basketball with the Dunkin Donuts!

[MADXSTER]

Games today

Georgetown @ Providence FOX Sports 1 12:00 PM ET

Seton Hall @ Creighton FOX Sports 1 2:00 PM ET

DePaul @ Villanova CBS Sports Network 4:00 PM ET

Xavier @ Butler FOX Sports 1 4:30 PM ET

[Masterofreality]

If this was the Xavier game, this board would be melting down over all the bad coaching moves by John Thompson III.

[Masterofreality]

And GTown screws up the end and loses in OT.

Anyone calling for JT3's head after that choke job?

[xudash]

And GTown screws up the end and loses in OT.

Anyone calling for JT3's head after that choke job?

It made me think of our game against Auburn.

Here's the question, and please consider it before providing your opinion:it's the same situation, in that there are only seconds left in the game, the player has to make a split second decision, and the game itself is fluid (.i.e. perhaps the ball is brought down the court and the opposing team throws a different look at you or somebody jumps out at you while you have the ball) so, in this case, DSR decides not to shoot and passes the ball to the corner. Game over.

Was that about poor coaching or was that an isolated event - a poor decision on the floor in the heat of the moment?

I suspect there were other examples of where JT III screwed the pooch when it came to coaching in that game. I know there was plenty of additional blame to go around for our loss at Auburn that belonged to both the coaching staff and the players.

I'm suggesting that there are instances where players can make a coach look bad.

[MADXSTER]

I'm suggesting that there are instances where players can make a coach look bad.

Same as players making coaches look good....as in Dwayne Wade

[Xville]

Sterling Gibbs just ripped the heart out of creighton and spit on it. Step back three down 2 to win the game. Wow...makes it even more impressive that Remy was able to shut him down.

[Masterofreality]

Sterling Gibbs just ripped the heart out of creighton and spit on it. Step back three down 2 to win the game. Wow...makes it even more impressive that Remy was able to shut him down.

That was an absolute dagger by Gibbs, but what was better was the time out by Willard with 7 seconds to go when he saw his team out of synch, and his original play breaking down. Recollected, reset, and got the ball in his best players' hands. Gibbs may have missed the shot, but the coaching was right.

Polar opposite of JT3 earlier today. Willard can coach a little bit. When their players grow up a bit, and Whitehead is back, look the hell out.

[sirthought]

Gibbs hits a huge 3 pointer to win for Seton Hall. The Blue Jay fans must be crying after two losses in a row.

[usfldan]

How can the Big East's first place team be 21.5 point underdogs?!?

Was the line for the first half? 45-24 Villanova at the half.

[X-band '01]

That was an absolute dagger by Gibbs, but what was better was the time out by Willard with 7 seconds to go when he saw his team out of synch, and his original play breaking down. Recollected, reset, and got the ball in his best players' hands. Gibbs may have missed the shot, but the coaching was right.

Polar opposite of JT3 earlier today. Willard can coach a little bit. When their players grow up a bit, and Whitehead is back, look the hell out.

It helps if you have the timeout to call in that situation as well. I'm starting to think that Creighton is going to be a now-or-never win at their place this year.

[GoMuskies]

Gibbs hits a huge 3 pointer to win for Seton Hall. The Blue Jay fans must be crying after two losses in a row.
Two straight at home. Five straight overall.

[GoMuskies]

What do oddsmakers/gamblers know about Seton Hall? They really do not have much respect for the #21 Pirates. They were 7 point dogs at Xavier (the Muskies covered easily) and then were 2 point dogs at Creighton last week (they hit a 3 in the final seconds to win by 1). Now they are at home and only 2.5 point favorites over Butler.

[Muskie]

Seton Hall is having trouble with Butler so far. 28-24 just under 4 in the first half.

[xsteve1]

This Butler-Seton Hall game is fantastic. Toughness being shown on both sides.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Seton Hall scored on their last 8 possessions of regulation to send it to OT. Butler's offensive rebounding is pretty killer. Looks like Butler is gonna get a big conference road win.

[casualfan]

This Butler-Seton Hall game is fantastic. Toughness being shown on both sides.

Agreed. Huge road win for Butler. They have a big game with Georgetown before a run of home games.

[DC Muskie]

Butler picked up their coach from Craigslist and we are trying to argue about recruiting three years ago, and trying to integrate freshmen. Meanwhile they just picked up their second road win.

Makes sense.

We need to tougher overnight. Please.

[GoMuskies]

Butler likes playing in NYC apparently.

[Masterofreality]

Butler picked up their coach from Craigslist and we are trying to argue about recruiting three years ago, and trying to integrate freshmen. Meanwhile they just picked up their second road win.

Makes sense.

We need to tougher overnight. Please.

Yeah, what makes sense is that the key guys from Butler are A) Upperclassmen and B)Recruited by the guy who got two Final Fours on his resume and left after the recruiting season was over.

Butler has now beaten North Carolina, GTown on a neutral court, and two road wins in league. Apparently according to some on this board, Chris Mack sucks because Butler is pretty good- even better at home.

Makes sense.

[DC Muskie]

Yeah, what makes sense is that the key guys from Butler are A) Upperclassmen and B)Recruited by the guy who got two Final Fours on his resume and left after the recruiting season was over.

Butler has now beaten North Carolina, GTown on a neutral court, and two road wins in league. Apparently according to some on this board, Chris Mack sucks because Butler is pretty good- even better at home.

Makes sense.

What makes zero sense is your arguments. So therefore Mack's early success didn't mean that much, because hey someone else recruited them? Oh and they (Butler's players) were recruited to play what... in the Horizon league? Or at least the A10?

They are led by more upperclassmen than we are?

Yes, Butler's coach, whom they picked up so they could ride in the HOV lane, is doing much, much better in neutral games.

He wasn't the coach until like midnight madness or some shit. And yet we have problems because we have a bunch of freshmen?

Holy cow man.

16-21.

[LadyMuskie]

Butler picked up their coach from Craigslist and we are trying to argue about recruiting three years ago, and trying to integrate freshmen. Meanwhile they just picked up their second road win.

Makes sense.

We need to tougher overnight. Please.


What makes zero sense is your arguments. So therefore Mack's early success didn't mean that much, because hey someone else recruited them? Oh and they (Butler's players) were recruited to play what... in the Horizon league? Or at least the A10?

They are led by more upperclassmen than we are?

Yes, Butler's coach, whom they picked up so they could ride in the HOV lane, is doing much, much better in neutral games.

He wasn't the coach until like midnight madness or some shit. And yet we have problems because we have a bunch of freshmen?

Holy cow man.

16-21.
Public reps, my friend since the regular ones are verboten right now. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[GoMuskies]

DePaul has drawn even in the second half against Georgetown as they continue their quest to completely defile our league.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Been in the bonus since 13mins. Got a bad feeling DePaul is going to win this one. Up 4 with 11:30 mins left.

[BMoreX]

DePaul is mind bottling.

[GoMuskies]

Georgetown is pulling away. Let's all hope that's the last time DePaul sniffs first place.

[xsteve1]

With Georgetown beating DePaul the road teams are starting to catch up now 8-14.

[Masterofreality]

What makes zero sense is your arguments. So therefore Mack's early success didn't mean that much, because hey someone else recruited them? Oh and they (Butler's players) were recruited to play what... in the Horizon league? Or at least the A10?

They are led by more upperclassmen than we are?

Yes, Butler's coach, whom they picked up so they could ride in the HOV lane, is doing much, much better in neutral games.

He wasn't the coach until like midnight madness or some shit. And yet we have problems because we have a bunch of freshmen?

Holy cow man.

16-21.

16-21. Hmmm.

What is really hilarious is you giving a pass to Mack two years ago with a short roster and for the most part last year as well as we moved into a new league, and now, when things are sour, pulling statistics up that include those years to make your argument more expedient.

Nice consistency and way to hang in there when the going gets tough.

[Lamont Sanford]

I rarely agree with ANYTHING that DC says, but gotta agree with him like LadyMuskie did.

16-21

[DC Muskie]

16-21. Hmmm.

What is really hilarious is you giving a pass to Mack two years ago with a short roster and for the most part last year as well as we moved into a new league, and now, when things are sour, pulling statistics up that include those years to make your argument more expedient.

Nice consistency and way to hang in there when the going gets tough.

I have never advocated Mack to be fired. Never. I still believe he can be an excellent coach. That being said if he was hired away in the offseason, I wouldn't be upset.

The facts speak for themselves. He is now five and half years into his tenure here and what we see is this:

* Lack of tough fundamental defense
* Poor play on the road
* Lack of wins in tournament (November & March) and neutral site games

Sean Miller in five years developed:

* A culture of toughness on the defensive side
* Good overall play on the road
* Tournament (November & March) and neutral site wins

Chris Mack can turn that around that sourness. Him and him alone. But if we finish around 9-9, sneak into the tournament and then exit quickly, the following year I will be changing my tune from simply providing facts to following up those facts with call for a change. I really don't want to experience another Skip Prosser 2.0 where we have talented teams, but yet quickly define the excuses that prevent us from being where we were in Miller era, (which includes the Matta era since he was here).

Mack is 16-21 in tournament and neutral sites games. We have moved up in conference and overcame in my opinion much more than say, what Butler endured in the same time period. But Butler has overcome a pretty big deal (losing a coach, three coaching changes in three years) to produce a much better record this season in tournament play (November), road wins and defensive toughness.

They show us it can be done. We know we can do it too.

Chris Mack needs to get it done.

[DC Muskie]

I rarely agree with ANYTHING that DC says, but gotta agree with him like LadyMuskie did.

16-21

Feels weird doesn't it? I know I feel it too.

[X-band '01]

Does Providence know they have a game against St. John's tonight? Only the Red Storm have showed up for this game so far.

[Muskie]

Providence about to go down at home.

[Masterofreality]

Butler leads GTown...on the road...at half.

Maybe they are pretty good?

[xu82]

Butler leads GTown...on the road...at half.

Maybe they are pretty good?

Let's hope it's that, I guess. GTown sucks is another possibility. I loved our game against GTown and I don't want to lessen the happiness it provides me. Butler being good helps to ease some pain as well.

[xudash]

Let's hope it's that, I guess. GTown sucks is another possibility. I loved our game against GTown and I don't want to lessen the happiness it provides me. Butler being good helps to ease some pain as well.

They certainly know how to handle life on the road. And they know how to play hard.

[xudash]

Copeland!!!!!

[X Factor]

GTown wins. Great defensive play by DSR on the final play to get a piece of Jones' runner. Exciting game.

[Masterofreality]

Creighton is about to be 0-6 in the league. Welcome to life without Doug McDermott, and not in the Missouri Valley.

Now they have two straight road games at Butler and at 'Nova. Ouch.

[mohr5150]

We need them to win before we visit there.

[toledodan]

We need them to win before we visit there.

i will be there and i was at the mizzouri game so there is a slight chance i could bring home a winner lol.

[X-band '01]

If Georgetown beats Villanova on Monday night, I don't even want to imagine what kind of unspeakable acts that Nova will perform on Creighton.

[Masterofreality]

We need them to win before we visit there.

Since it's the very last game of the year, I believe that Creighton will be the blind hog finding an acorn and beat someone before we get there.

[Nildogg]

Butler leads GTown...on the road...at half.

Maybe they are pretty good?

Losing that game was dissapointing.

I just don't understand why thinking Butler "might" be good is difficult for you?

[xsteve1]

Losing that game was dissapointing.

I just don't understand why thinking Butler "might" be good is difficult for you?

Holtmann not only needs to be in the running for Big East coach of the Year but also National Coach of the year as well. Looks like Butler has found themselves another gem.

[Masterofreality]

Losing that game was dissapointing.

I just don't understand why thinking Butler "might" be good is difficult for you?

Because you abjectly sucked with basically the same cast as last year...and you were picked 7th or lower in the preseason.

[GoMuskies]

Oliver Purnell deserves a contract extension.

[waggy]

Three weeks ago he needed to be replaced?

Two weeks ago he was an embarrassment to the conference?

[paulxu]

I can never figure out whether these things hurt or help the Muskies' fortune.

[Masterofreality]

Oliver Purnell deserves a contract extension.

And Lavin may have his terminated.

[Masterofreality]

As of this morning- 7 Big East Teams in the Top 40 of the RPI. That is after St. John's loss to DePaul yesterday.

X is 34. BTW our OOC SOS is 65 and our total SOS is 16. So much for the criticisms of what schedule was put together.

All Hail Mario Mercurio!!!

[casualfan]

As of this morning- 7 Big East Teams in the Top 40 of the RPI. That is after St. John's loss to DePaul yesterday.

X is 34. BTW our OOC SOS is 65 and our total SOS is 16. So much for the criticisms of what schedule was put together.

All Hail Mario Mercurio!!!

Ehh, let's wait to see how we end up on selection sunday before we praise the scheduling.

The fact we're projected as barely in by both CBS and ESPN with a SOS of 16 doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzy.

[Masterofreality]

Ehh, let's wait to see how we end up on selection sunday before we praise the scheduling.

The fact we're projected as barely in by both CBS and ESPN with a SOS of 16 doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzy.

Well, you still have to win games, of course, but our schedule will not be a negative factor against us.

[XUFan09]

Well, you still have to win games, of course, but our schedule will not be a negative factor against us.
I'm with MOR. Between DePaul, Auburn, and the preseason tourney, two more wins would have had us talking about which single-digit seed we're on pace for.

Neither UTEP nor LBSU are currently projected to be bad losses like DePaul and Auburn, but I include them in that group because they're games we should have won that would have improved the team's road/neutral record.

[casualfan]

Well, you still have to win games, of course, but our schedule will not be a negative factor against us.

I mean I guess that depends how you look at it.

It wont be a negative in the sense that anyone will look at it and say "boy X played a bunch of patsies", but if you look at it as an opportunity cost we definitely didn't give ourselves many opportunities to elevate our tournament resume.

[casualfan]

I'm with MOR. Between DePaul, Auburn, and the preseason tourney, two more wins would have had us talking about which single-digit seed we're on pace for.

Neither UTEP nor LBSU are currently projected to be bad losses like DePaul and Auburn, but I include them in that group because they're games we should have won that would have improved the team's road/neutral record.

That goes both ways though. If we had scheduled some RPI top-50 road games in place of any of those two losses we'd be talking about what single digit seed we're on pace for even if we lost those road games.

[GoMuskies]

Speaking of good scheduling (for buy games), Murray State and SF Austin have currently won a combined 26 games in a row (13 each).

[D-West & PO-Z]

4 of our next 6 games are against top 25 RPI team, unfortunately 3 of those are on the road. Time to get a road win.

I really dont find our schedule to be a problem at all, I find our inability to win away from Cintas the problem. Our OOC schedule was fine imo, especially considering the amount of quality wins to be had in conference.

Sure it may have looked better had we lost to better teams instead of the ones we did, but it wouldnt fix the problem, it would be putting lipstick on a pig.....still a pig. And we might have been embarrassed by significantly better teams on the road.