St. John's loses Forward

[Muskie]

Link (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/29/st-johns-junior-college-keith-thomas-westchester-ineligible/)

Keith Thomas has been ruled academically ineligible at St. John’s, becoming the latest victim of a scandal surrounding the basketball program at Westchester Community College.
Losing Thomas is a massive blow for the Johnnies, who already have an inexperienced front line. Thomas was expected to compete for a starting spot alongside Chris Obekpa.
“Academic integrity is treated very seriously at St. John’s University and we are committed to maintaining high academic standards for all of our student-athletes,” said Director of Athletics Chris Monasch. “Our athletic compliance office recently became aware of information that triggered an additional review of Thomas’ academic credentials at Westchester Community College. Our assessment and decision are in accordance with University and NCAA policies.”

[ArizonaXUGrad]

That's tough for them. They have some walk-ons and a 6'9 guy from Rome, Italy but that is it. They are thin on the front line. All those senior guards are going to have to play that much better.

[Juice]

Link (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/29/st-johns-junior-college-keith-thomas-westchester-ineligible/)

Keith Thomas has been ruled academically ineligible at St. John’s, becoming the latest victim of a scandal surrounding the basketball program at Westchester Community College.
Losing Thomas is a massive blow for the Johnnies, who already have an inexperienced front line. Thomas was expected to compete for a starting spot alongside Chris Obekpa.
“Academic integrity is treated very seriously at St. John’s University and we are committed to maintaining high academic standards for all of our student-athletes,” said Director of Athletics Chris Monasch. “Our athletic compliance office recently became aware of information that triggered an additional review of Thomas’ academic credentials at Westchester Community College. Our assessment and decision are in accordance with University and NCAA policies.”

Good. Eff them (tough luck for the kid though).

[GoMuskies]

Well, at least Lavin will have a legitimate excuse when they suck this year.

[Muskie]

Well, at least Lavin will have a legitimate excuse when they suck this year.

Other than his poor coaching?

[casualfan]

St. John's is a joke.

Despite all their advantages they still manage to suck on toast. Unless they make a run this year Lavin should be gone. That guy is a clown.

[bleedXblue]

Lavin is a shell of the former coach he was at UCLA. He's a big name coach that should be able to recruit and win in NY. The conference needs St Johns to win consistently. The Big East needs 4-5 of their 10 teams in the tourney every year. I believe that Wojo will get Marquette there consistently. X is gonna be there consistently. Georgetown and Thompson as well. Villanova and Wright, check. That's 4. Who else can you realistically expect to make this happen? Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, Creighton and Butler are big question marks in my opinion. St Johns should be the front runner. I agree Lavin needs to win this year or he should be out.

[GoMuskies]

Lavin is a shell of the former coach he was at UCLA.

I think he's pretty much the same. Hence, why he was canned at UCLA.

[bleedXblue]

I think he's pretty much the same. Hence, why he was canned at UCLA.

5 Sweet 16's in a 6 year period is pretty impressive. UCLA simply has unrealistic expectations.

[GoMuskies]

5 Sweet 16's in a 6 year period is pretty impressive.

At UCLA? They don't bother counting Sweet 16s there. A Sweet 16 for them is like losing in the play-in game for us.

[bleedXblue]

At UCLA? They don't bother counting Sweet 16s there. A Sweet 16 for them is like losing in the play-in game for us.

That's the point? Unrealistic expectations. UCLA has been passed up by about 15-20 other programs from their heyday in the 60 and 70's.

They are still a very solid program, but its hard to get guys from the midwest and east coast to LA when they have lots of other better options.

[GoMuskies]

Agree to disagree, I suppose. I found Lavin's UCLA tenure to be mediocre at the high end of the range. How do you manage to have a losing season at UCLA....ever?!?

[NY44]

Gotta feel for St. John's a little bit here. They have to deal with this loss because some Community College coach is forging transcripts.

[PMI]

Lavin is a shell of the former coach he was at UCLA. He's a big name coach that should be able to recruit and win in NY. The conference needs St Johns to win consistently. The Big East needs 4-5 of their 10 teams in the tourney every year. I believe that Wojo will get Marquette there consistently. X is gonna be there consistently. Georgetown and Thompson as well. Villanova and Wright, check. That's 4. Who else can you realistically expect to make this happen? Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, Creighton and Butler are big question marks in my opinion. St Johns should be the front runner. I agree Lavin needs to win this year or he should be out.

I think you're sleeping on Providence. Ed Cooley is a good coach and I don't see much of a question mark there. I think that's a consistent tournament program. Marquette is certainly more of a question mark until we actually see Wojo coach a game.

[bleedXblue]

Agree to disagree, I suppose. I found Lavin's UCLA tenure to be mediocre at the high end of the range. How do you manage to have a losing season at UCLA....ever?!?

Agree, I'm just saying he had a pretty good run for an extended period of time. Ben Howland had 3 straight Final 4's I think and he couldn't keep up that pace either. UCLA is not even a Top 10 program anymore and to expect deep runs every year is just plain stupid.

[bleedXblue]

I think you're sleeping on Providence. Ed Cooley is a good coach and I don't see much of a question mark there. I think that's a consistent tournament program. Marquette is certainly more of a question mark until we actually see Wojo coach a game.

Maybe. But shouldn't Providence/Cooley also have to prove themselves as well? 1 NCAA tourney in 10 years?

I think Wojo is simply going to recruit his way to 20 wins every year.

[XU 87]

Agree, I'm just saying he had a pretty good run for an extended period of time. Ben Howland had 3 straight Final 4's I think and he couldn't keep up that pace either. UCLA is not even a Top 10 program anymore and to expect deep runs every year is just plain stupid.

I agree with you here. UCLA is still living in the 60's and 70's as far as their expectations. Howland won 25 games and the PAC 10 his last year before getting fired.

[PMI]

Maybe. But shouldn't Providence/Cooley also have to prove themselves as well? 1 NCAA tourney in 10 years?

I think Wojo is simply going to recruit his way to 20 wins every year.

Cooley is entering his fourth season at Providence and has significantly improved what was a dead program every year despite major injuries. They won the league last year without arguably their best player. They are recruiting well and every indication suggests that the program is ascending. I don't see what Wojo and Marquette have done other than land a highly ranked recruit that would constitute them being less of a question mark than Providence.

[NY44]

Maybe. But shouldn't Providence/Cooley also have to prove themselves as well? 1 NCAA tourney in 10 years?

I think Wojo is simply going to recruit his way to 20 wins every year.

Correction: 1 NCAA Tourney in 1 year

[bleedXblue]

Correction: 1 NCAA Tourney in 1 year

1 appearance in the last 10 years for Providence.

[casualfan]

I think you're sleeping on Providence. Ed Cooley is a good coach and I don't see much of a question mark there. I think that's a consistent tournament program. Marquette is certainly more of a question mark until we actually see Wojo coach a game.

I agree about Cooley. The problem with Providence is going to be their ability to keep him.

[bleedXblue]

Cooley is entering his fourth season at Providence and has significantly improved what was a dead program every year despite major injuries. They won the league last year without arguably their best player. They are recruiting well and every indication suggests that the program is ascending. I don't see what Wojo and Marquette have done other than land a highly ranked recruit that would constitute them being less of a question mark than Providence.

We shall see. Wojo has the name, the pedigree and a very strong program to recruit to. If I had to put my money on it, I'd take Marquette to outperform Providence the next 5 years.

[casualfan]

We shall see. Wojo has the name, the pedigree and a very strong program to recruit to. If I had to put my money on it, I'd take Marquette to outperform Providence the next 5 years.

What name is that?

[NY44]

1 appearance in the last 10 years for Providence.

You can morph that stat to make it agree with your point all you want, but that's an unfair representation. First off, Cooley has only been there for 5 years, and he arrived when the program was absolute hot-garbage. He made the tournament the 1st season he had a roster of only his players. That's pretty damn good.

Unlike a coach like Chris Mack, who inherited a pretty decent team, Cooley started from scratch and done a pretty damn good job. I'm not sure how this is debatable.

[PMI]

1 appearance in the last 10 years for Providence.

I think that's kind of an unfair split to focus on though, and it doesn't really give an accurate portrayal of where the program is at now. Providence used to be in the old 16 team gauntlet Big East and was frankly pretty poorly coached. Since Cooley has gotten there, they've really improved. There's really no sign of them falling right now. What they did 4 years ago, much less 10, has nothing to do with where they're at now.


I agree about Cooley. The problem with Providence is going to be their ability to keep him.

That certainly may be true. If he does prove to be tough to keep, though, that will almost certainly mean they will continue to make the tournament and even make some noise in it.


We shall see. Wojo has the name, the pedigree and a very strong program to recruit to. If I had to put my money on it, I'd take Marquette to outperform Providence the next 5 years.

It certainly wouldn't be a huge surprise if Marquette got back on track, given their commitment to basketball and program pedigree. But Wojo's "name" extends no further than his ties to Duke and Coach K, at this point. He may prove to be a great coach, but as of now, he has zero career wins. He's already landed one major recruit which is a great start, but your prediction requires a leap of faith. At least with Providence, we've seen what Cooley has done and is doing. I think at the very least, they belong in the same tier as of now, which to me would be the tier of programs we should count on to be strong if we expect this conference to be what we need it to be.

[bleedXblue]

You can morph that stat to make it agree with your point all you want, but that's an unfair representation. First off, Cooley has only been there for 5 years, and he arrived when the program was absolute hot-garbage. He made the tournament the 1st season he had a roster of only his players. That's pretty damn good.

Unlike a coach like Chris Mack, who inherited a pretty decent team, Cooley started from scratch and done a pretty damn good job. I'm not sure how this is debatable.

Fair enough...but to be clear I never said he hasn't done a good job. My point was that I don't think he can sustain it long term. My money is on Marquette.

[XU 87]

First off, Cooley has only been there for 5 years, and he arrived when the program was absolute hot-garbage. He made the tournament the 1st season he had a roster of only his players. That's pretty damn good.



Cooley has only been at Providence for 3 years. He's won 15, 19 and 23 games each year. He had a similar history at Fairfield. I agree with you-the guy can coach. The problem will be keeping him there.

I would also like to point out that this may be the first time you and I have agreed on anything. Kumbaya.

[PMI]

I honestly think that as long as Cooley is at Providence, they will be a really solid program. I think very highly of him as a coach, and while I wouldn't necessarily call Providence a "sleeping giant," I definitely think they have always had the makings of a sustainable program.

[NY44]

The problem will be keeping him there.

Agreed on all counts. The tradition at Butler MIGHT be enough to get them through the coaching changes. It's definitely not enough to get Providence through. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Cooley has a really solid Assistant Coach staff

[xubrew]

Maybe. But shouldn't Providence/Cooley also have to prove themselves as well? 1 NCAA tourney in 10 years?

I think Wojo is simply going to recruit his way to 20 wins every year.

Wojo's next game as a head coach will be his first. Cooley HAS proven himself. He's made Providence a lot better despite the fact that so many of their good players have either been ineligible or injured. He was a winner at Fairfield as well.

Wojo may turn out to be fantastic, but that's assuming quite a bit for a guy that's never been a head coach at any level. I think it's kind of backwards to say Wojo has proven himself and Cooley hasn't.

[xubrew]

The Johnnies play their exhibition game this Saturday at 1pm (I think) on ESPN3. Just an FYI for everyone.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I will be curious to see how they play in this game. I bet we see a lot of 4 guard sets. This team could be out rebounded in almost every game this year. Certainly in the two against us, with Reynolds/Stain/O'Mara/Farr we should own the boards.

[casualfan]

I will be curious to see how they play in this game. I bet we see a lot of 4 guard sets. This team could be out rebounded in almost every game this year. Certainly in the two against us, with Reynolds/Stain/O'Mara/Farr we should own the boards.

If he's smart, with the athletes they have, they'll press a lot and try to take teams out of their half court offense.

You can afford to gamble when you have a shot blocker like Obekpa on the back end and they certainly have the athletes to not only cause teams problems with their ball pressure, but also to get out in transition and finish if/when they get a turnover.

Then again I preface a post about Lavin with "if he's smart" so you can just disregard all that.

[Juice]

St. John's loses another player

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24801983/st-johns-frosh-adonis-de-la-rosa-ineligible-this-season-per-ncaa

[Masterofreality]

Isn't it time to believe that the Steve Lavin program is a dumpster fire?

He's gotten reprieves because of his cancer, but with all of the talent in the NYC St. John's should be good every year.

[GoMuskies]

Isn't it time to believe that the Steve Lavin program is a dumpster fire?


It's way beyond time. That program has generally been a dumpster fire since about 1990.

[QueensbridgeMF]

What do you mean they were awesome in the late 90's, Meta World Peace, Bootsy, Barkley. Really should have done better that the Elite 8 in '99. Slick Willie Shaw in the early oughts.

[PMI]

So does that leave St. John's with like an 8 guard rotation now? I just don't get how people choose them to finish in the top 3-4 of the league. Definition of insanity...

[GoMuskies]

What do you mean they were awesome in the late 90's, Meta World Peace, Bootsy, Barkley. Really should have done better that the Elite 8 in '99. Slick Willie Shaw in the early oughts.

They had two good years under Mike Jarvis and one okay year under Fran. But they've generally been a dumpster fire.

[Chalmers0]

So does that leave St. John's with like an 8 guard rotation now? I just don't get how people choose them to finish in the top 3-4 of the league. Definition of insanity...

People love Rysheed Jordan and his sub-100 O-Rating and a bunch of great athletes who can't hit jumpers

[waggy]

Well Jordon is scary talented. Scary squirrly too though.

[X-band '01]

It's way beyond time. That program has generally been a dumpster fire since about 1990.

Let's make it 1992 - they did make the Elite 8 back in 1991 (not vacated, unlike 1999).