XU budget shortfall

[kyxu]

Didn't see this posted anywhere, but was wondering what people thought, especially those with ties to the administration:

http://xaviernewswire.com/2014/09/11/graham-announces-budget-shortfall/

[Xville]

Shocking considering the business model for universities are rooted in things that worked 40 years ago. But hey just keep building shit and raise tuition.

[OH.X.MI]

""I think the most important thing we do, frankly, is keep talking,” Graham said"

Oh ya, because doing something wouldn't help things at all.

[Xville]

my other favorite quote in this article is and I am paraphrasing here..we need to figure out why enrollment numbers are down from the local area specifically. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. Xavier is around 40k a year with room and board and books etc. That is ridiculous. Now with in-state tuition it is im sure much cheaper but so are other schools in the state. As much as we would all love to say that it is, xavier is not an ivy league school. Its a good school but there are a lot of good schools within the state that are cheaper.

[Kahns Krazy]

my other favorite quote in this article is and I am paraphrasing here..we need to figure out why enrollment numbers are down from the local area specifically. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. Xavier is around 40k a year with room and board and books etc. That is ridiculous. Now with in-state tuition it is im sure much cheaper but so are other schools in the state. As much as we would all love to say that it is, xavier is not an ivy league school. Its a good school but there are a lot of good schools within the state that are cheaper.

Xavier is private. There is no in-state tuition break.

[GoMuskies]

There's no way I'm sending a kid to Xavier unless they get a serious scholarship. KU. K-State and Wichita State are all looking very attractive.

[muskienick]

There's no way I'm sending a kid to Xavier unless they get a serious scholarship. KU. K-State and Wichita State are all looking very attractive.
Three of my six kids attended all four years at XU. There is help available out there and through Xavier.

[GoMuskies]

I'm sure there's help, but it's crazy stupid money they're charging. Really, outside of about a dozen private schools (Ivy, Duke, Vandy, Wash U.), I cannot imagine paying full freight at any private school at this point.

[Xville]

Xavier is private. There is no in-state tuition break.

oh yeah..wow my brain definitely knows it is friday

[xu82]

I'm sure there's help, but it's crazy stupid money they're charging. Really, outside of about a dozen private schools (Ivy, Duke, Vandy, Wash U.), I cannot imagine paying full freight at any private school at this point.

We knew some folks whose kid got into Duke then decided to go to a cheap state school for at least 2 years. He figured he could transfer into a great school later and save enough to put a huge down payment on a house down the road. Maybe even just wait for the "name school" for his advanced degree since that's what people would focus on. Smart kid, smart family. The dad made a fortune in the Tech field and they spent their days giving away money through their foundation. Duke's tuition was no big deal to them, but was it really worth it?

At the other extreme my wife met a guy here who has five kids in a private school with a base tuition of about $28,500/year. I'm sure there was a break for additional kids, but how much is middle school worth? Yikes!!!!

[xu82]

The whole system is dysfunctional. We had dinner with the dean of the business school at a large northeastern university. He made an amazingly clear argument for what a mess it is. No kid should need 4 years to graduate. The school has this enormous investment in a campus/infrastructure and it should be treated like a factory. There's no point in sitting idle for weeks and months at a time. Get into the real world already kids, and the real world is a full time job. I can't do his argument justice I'm afraid. Just because that's the way it's always been done is a pretty weak reason. At FSU you cannot graduate in 4 years without doing at least some summer sessions. That should be far more common....and the goal should be three years.

Having said all that, it seems like Xavier just keeps building more capacity! I'm sure smart people are looking at all this, and I have no idea what their plan is, but on the surface it does raise some questions.

[Xville]

The whole system is dysfunctional. We had dinner with the dean of the business school at a large northeastern university. He made an amazingly clear argument for what a mess it is. No kid should need 4 years to graduate. The school has this enormous investment in a campus/infrastructure and it should be treated like a factory. There's no point in sitting idle for weeks and months at a time. Get into the real world already kids, and the real world is a full time job. I can't do his argument justice I'm afraid. Just because that's the way it's always been done is a pretty weak reason. At FSU you cannot graduate in 4 years without doing at least some summer sessions. That should be far more common....and the goal should be three years.

Having said all that, it seems like Xavier just keeps building more capacity! I'm sure smart people are looking at all this, and I have no idea what their plan is, but on the surface it does raise some questions.

It is dysfunctional...I really don't see the need to have all of the building infrastructure at all...what is the point of having so many buildings filled with classrooms? So many classes could be done online...I mean do we really need to have a physical classroom for philosophy class? Why? Or English classes, or history etc etc...Some classes yes it does make sense to have an actual space but i mean come on. The college system as it is today is so archaic.

[DC Muskie]

College tuition has increased 1,120% over the last 30 years.

Giving to schools is probably the worst investment you could make.

[MADXSTER]

So many classes could be done online... The college system as it is today is so archaic.

Agree.....As an online basketball player I'm 6'9", can jump off one or two feet and play like an MVP guard.

[BMoreX]

I'm not trying to offend anyone but I'm pretty sure almost everyone in my graduating class (2014) didn't have to pay full tuition due to the awarding of scholarships or financial aid.

I certainly did not pay 40k or whatever outrageous amount is shown online.

[xu82]

Agree.....As an online basketball player I'm 6'9", can jump off one or two feet and play like an MVP guard.

Are you being heavily recruited?

[bleedXblue]

The traditional school system of large buildings, immaculate landscaping and enormous infrastructure is going to be a thing of the past 20 years from now. Mark it down. Technology is going to allow you to sit in virtual classrooms and do a lot of different things with the same educational impact. I just went through the whole process for my first one in college. I'm not advocating the elimination of classroom education. But why does my kid have to pay for all of massive spending almost all of these schools are doing to out market each other? Just doesn't make sense. Educate the kids and get them ready for the real world without crippling them with massive debt. Technology always, always wins.

And yes, Xavier offers some pretty solid scholarship help to those with above average ACT scores. There aren't many paying the full 50k.

[xu82]

The traditional school system of large buildings, immaculate landscaping and enormous infrastructure is going to be a thing of the past 20 years from now. Mark it down. Technology is going to allow you to sit in virtual classrooms and do a lot of different things with the same educational impact. I just went through the whole process for my first one in college. I'm not advocating the elimination of classroom education. But why does my kid have to pay for all of massive spending almost all of these schools are doing to out market each other? Just doesn't make sense. Educate the kids and get them ready for the real world without crippling them with massive debt. Technology always, always wins.

And yes, Xavier offers some pretty solid scholarship help to those with above average ACT scores. There aren't many paying the full 50k.

But where will the keggers take place?

That's all true, of course. You'd like to think that education of all things would be quick to evolve, but that doesn't appear to be the case. My son at FSU can do much of his school work from anywhere, as can my wife and myself with our jobs. But it still seems to be slow to evolve. The odd result could actually be MORE one on one time with a professor or TA, from our experience. Fewer gigantic classes, more on line and one on one.

[X-man]

The traditional school system of large buildings, immaculate landscaping and enormous infrastructure is going to be a thing of the past 20 years from now. Mark it down. Technology is going to allow you to sit in virtual classrooms and do a lot of different things with the same educational impact. I just went through the whole process for my first one in college. I'm not advocating the elimination of classroom education. But why does my kid have to pay for all of massive spending almost all of these schools are doing to out market each other? Just doesn't make sense. Educate the kids and get them ready for the real world without crippling them with massive debt. Technology always, always wins.

And yes, Xavier offers some pretty solid scholarship help to those with above average ACT scores. There aren't many paying the full 50k.

I am told that the average discount on tuition for this year's freshmen class topped 50%.

[XUGRAD80]

I remember reading in the alumni magazine that 100% of last years incoming freshman received some kind of financial assistance...grants, scholarships, loans, etc.....something.

However, still feel that the cost of a college education at virtually ANY school is outrageous, and the business model that so many schools seem to be using is not long term sustainable.

[LA Muskie]

We knew some folks whose kid got into Duke then decided to go to a cheap state school for at least 2 years. He figured he could transfer into a great school later and save enough to put a huge down payment on a house down the road. Maybe even just wait for the "name school" for his advanced degree since that's what people would focus on. Smart kid, smart family. The dad made a fortune in the Tech field and they spent their days giving away money through their foundation. Duke's tuition was no big deal to them, but was it really worth it?

At the other extreme my wife met a guy here who has five kids in a private school with a base tuition of about $28,500/year. I'm sure there was a break for additional kids, but how much is middle school worth? Yikes!!!!
I can't find it right now, but a recent study concluded that the prominence/reputation of a worker's undergraduate institution has a significant effect on jobs/income, even in professions that require graduate school. I always suspected that based on my experience in the legal industry, but the numbers were even more skewed than I expected them to be. In the end I think it depends in large part on what you think your kids will do down the line, but if you anticipate them going into a high income field (medicine, law, finance, etc.) they should go to the best school they can get into. According to the study, the down payment on their career will pay for itself many times over.

[GoMuskies]

I think that's mostly because the admissions departments at those "elite" grad schools are essentially echo chambers. But you have to play the game (not that we played that game right by going to Xavier).

The irony is that at my firm the Suffolk University Law alums who managed to get their feet in the door were almost universally superior to their Harvard Law educated colleagues (I know that's graduate school and not undergrad, but I think the same rules generally apply).

[fellahmuskie]

If you want your kids to go to an expensive school, just make under 40k/yr and have 4-6 kids, who all do well on standardized tests. Then it's basically free. Otherwise, unless your kid is very committed to a certain career path and an elite school will make a big difference in doing well in that career, I'd say there's no point wasting your money on college tuition (unless you have more than you know what to do with).

Go to a community college, whatever, and spend most of your time developing your skills in whatever it is you love to do, building connections, and doing internships. As I look at it as a 26-year-old, there are so many creative professions out there right now that don't give a shit about what school you went to and just need people who are very passionate and knowledgeable about what they do. This is definitely true for me and my wife. We both feel like we wasted 4 years at college on pointless homework and extracurriculars, when we could have spent that time specializing in something we actually cared about.

[blueblob06]

While I 100% agree that the costs are getting outrageous, going to community school or doing it online versus going to a place like Xavier would be a VERY different experience. Certainly much less fun. Yes, I know you don't go to school to just have fun but when you live on campus and are forced to interact with roommates, classmates, etc, a crazy thing happens....you make great friends you'll always have, maybe even find a future spouse, etc. Not saying it justifies the crazy tuitions but the experience is miles ahead of living with mom and commuting to a community college...

Regarding the article, Graham saying "it is what it is" is pretty damn scary to me.

[xu82]

I can't find it right now, but a recent study concluded that the prominence/reputation of a worker's undergraduate institution has a significant effect on jobs/income, even in professions that require graduate school. I always suspected that based on my experience in the legal industry, but the numbers were even more skewed than I expected them to be. In the end I think it depends in large part on what you think your kids will do down the line, but if you anticipate them going into a high income field (medicine, law, finance, etc.) they should go to the best school they can get into. According to the study, the down payment on their career will pay for itself many times over.

I don't doubt any of that for a second. I think a large part of it is that the top graduate programs pull mostly from the better schools, but not exclusively. We have some friends whose daughter is very bright and could have gone anywhere undergrad. She went to FSU (they have some nice programs but certainly not nationally elite) and got 4 degrees in 4 years (simultaneously and largely due to AP credits) and they paid her to go there. From there she decided to go Ivy League, but in the meantime her family was about a quarter million to the good. Not everyone can pull that off, but it's a nice path if you can do it. I know several people who went to Harvard, including my wife's boss. I have no idea where any of them went to undergrad. By the way, it is generally true that if they went to Harvard you will hear about it in the first 10 minutes. Also, I've heard the hardest part of Harvard is getting in, staying in....Not so much.

[boozehound]

I agree with GoMuskies completely. Having spent a lot of time working for companies headquartered in the Northeast, and particularly Massachusetts, I have worked with many Harvard MBA's. Most of them aren't any smarter than the people that went to state schools, or 'lesser' schools. None of them have been dumb, though, so I guess there's that. Quite a few are of the 'book smart but doesn't translate to business success' variety. Most are pretty arrogant, which can often be a limiting factor for them, particularly when they find themselves in the position of working for someone with a degree from a 'lesser' institution.

I also agree with GoMuskies that there is a lot of cronyism involved in the perception of a given school. You have a lot of people who graduate from a particular school, often ivy league, and then hire as many people as they can from their Alma Mater. This seems to be most prevalent in the Northeast than in the Midwest.

[vee4xu]

So, if any of you had the chance to directly ask Fr. Graham a question on this topic, what would it be?

[xu82]

So, if any of you had the chance to directly ask Fr. Graham a question on this topic, what would it be?

"Since we didn't know that nobody else pays full retail, can I have some money back?"