Rioting in STL

[XU 87]

They've tried to keep it under the radar considering who the victim is.

I highly, highly doubt that's why the national media hasn't picked up on this story. Black on white hate crimes are of no interest to the national media. White on black hate crimes are of utmost interest to the national media.

[xeus]

They've tried to keep it under the radar considering who the victim is.

Who has tried to keep it under the radar?

[Lamont Sanford]

I highly, highly doubt that's why the national media hasn't picked up on this story. Black on white hate crimes are of no interest to the national media. White on black hate crimes are of utmost interest to the national media.

What he said.

[Kahns Krazy]

Who has tried to keep it under the radar?

They.

[Juice]

I highly, highly doubt that's why the national media hasn't picked up on this story. Black on white hate crimes are of no interest to the national media. White on black hate crimes are of utmost interest to the national media.

It hasn't even been a big story in the local media.

[Lamont Sanford]

The only reason it got any coverage in Cincy was because it was Joe Deters' son who was assaulted. Otherwise this story wouldn't have seen the light of day here either.

[PM Thor]

St. Louis cop shoots and kills 18 year old man who shot 3 times at him. Protesters come out again, with quotes like this from the suspects cousin

“He had a sandwich in his hand, and they thought it was a gun,” the cousin, Teyonna Myers, told the newspaper. “It’s like Michael Brown all over again.”

Except they recovered the gun and the 3 projectiles on the scene. I seriously do not know what these people are thinking.

[SemajParlor]

You guys know that the person in question of KILLING an unarmed kid was a member of the POLICE force, right? I don’t find it appropriate to equate that one with a non-lethal assault by another civilian.

[SemajParlor]

My nephew got chicken pox the other day. And of course just look at CNN covering Ebola. Classic media bias.

[XU 87]

My nephew got chicken pox the other day. And of course just look at CNN covering Ebola. Classic media bias.

You can choose to ignore or accept the facts.

[fellahmuskie]

I don't know what happened in that last incident in St. Louis. But I think it's fair for people in America to at least be of suspicious of police claims when a shooting is involved.

Look at these two cases. First, the initial police report...then the video:

1st incident:

--The officer said he thought Jones leaped into his vehicle to grab a gun and contends his actions amount to self defense.

“He jumped out of the car. I saw something black in his hands. I ran to the other side of the car yelling at him, and he kept coming toward me. Apparently it was his wallet,” Groubert said-- http://www.guns.com/2014/10/03/statement-from-sc-trooper-who-shot-unarmed-motorist-released-video/

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBUUO_VFYMs

(This cop was fired and is currently being charged)

2nd incident:

--We then made it to the final row of the pet department. Sergeant Darkow checked to the left and I covered his back by checking the long row to the right. As I quickly checked to the right I immediately heard Sergeant Darkow yell, "Drop the weapon!" As I turned towards the pet department I immediately saw a black male standing in the center of the aisle. He was holding a rifle. I quickly identified that the male was holding a rifle and I could see the silhouette of the magazine seated in the weapon. Sergeant Darkow repeatedly yelled ,"Drop the weapon!" The black male, who matched the description of the black male waving the rifle around (blue pants and blue shirt) did not drop the rifle. After repeated commands to drop the weapon the male turned towards us in an aggressive manner with the rifle in hand. At that time the black male was in a position where he could shoot me or Sergeant Darkow. I felt at that moment that my life was in immediate danger, that Sergeant Darkow's life was in immediate danger, and that the lives of all the families, children, and customers were in immediate danger. I then fired two rounds at the suspect. As I shot the suspect he began to move from my right to my left. Once I fired the shots
he retreated backwards and dropped the rifle. He then fell backwards behind the end of the row and out of sight. At that time the rifle was in the open. I then quickly closed the distance between me and the suspect. As I neared the weapon, which was lying on the floor, I identified it again as being a black rifle with a seated magazine. As I neared the rifle the black male jumped from behind the aisle and charged towards the weapon. He began to reach for it as he neared it and I yelled for him to get on the ground. Just before reaching the rifle he collapsed to the floor. I then ordered him to roll over onto his stomach and put his hands behind his back.-- http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2014/09/26/Officer_S._Williams_Narrative_Supplement.pdf

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqZ-teZsZmo (the shooting occurs at about the 5:40 mark)

Maybe some people here think the police officer was justified in shooting John Crawford and should not be punished. But I would definitely be upset if my brother was shot under similar circumstances and nothing happened to the police officer (or the 911 caller who lied about what was happening in the store, amping the police officers up even more). I'd be even more upset if the police lied about what happened, then video later proved that they were lying.

(Sean Williams, the officer, has not been fired)

Going back to Mike Brown, that's what I think going on. There are some who are inclined to believe a police officer's report due to personal experiences, and there are others who are predisposed to not believe a police officer's report. Again, due to personal experiences.

Given that police officers are frequently not punished in situations like this (at least that's my understanding), the protests make sense to me. People believe they saw an injustice and do not trust the police nor the results of an investigation, therefore they decide to protest.

[paulxu]

Was there ever an incident report released on the Brown situation like the one noted above, describing the officers side of the story?

[vee4xu]

And let us all notice this thread has finally hit 1000 posts. Any more consensus since post number one?

[xeus]

You know what job I don't want? Cop.

I don't mean just in Ferguson. I mean anywhere. No thanks. Now that the job of police officer has been ridiculed and emasculated to the point that is assumed by large chunks of society that "cops = racist assholes", I wonder how this profession ever recovers.

[fellahmuskie]

You know what job I don't want? Cop.

I don't mean just in Ferguson. I mean anywhere. No thanks. Now that the job of police officer has been ridiculed and emasculated to the point that is assumed by large chunks of society that "cops = racist assholes", I wonder how this profession ever recovers.

Even though I think cops get off a lot of times when they shouldn't, they are in high-pressure situations all the time and far more likely to make a mistake at some point than the average person, so it's understandable police departments try to protect their own. On the other hand, an innocent person who gets shot at by a cop isn't going to care about that.

It's a messed-up situation.

[XU-PA]

Cop has long since lapped car salesman for lack of trust in many parts of our country. I don't know any now, used to come in contact with many in my old line of work, and while mine was almost always either an informational or helpful role in my interactions, very many of the officers i came into contact were ended up quite prickish, for no reason. The industry needs to do a much better job policing itself, and polishing its image. Not just because it's nice to be liked, but because their own safety and the safety of the citizens they work for relies on trust.

[NY44]

I highly, highly doubt that's why the national media hasn't picked up on this story. Black on white hate crimes are of no interest to the national media. White on black hate crimes are of utmost interest to the national media.

There's a big difference between 'white on black hate crimes' and 'police on black crimes'. I feel like this has been said 100 times in this thread: One involves a sworn officer, the other involves normal citizens. We have different standards for each, just as we should.

Sure white on black crime happens and is an issue, but it's completely unrelated to the killing of Mike Brown. Also, I don't see what there is to discuss for the National media. A guy got beat up, his attackers have been arrested and will face trial and most likely punishment. That's the system working, which has yet to be seen in Ferguson, MO. That example might be comparable if he had been killed, wasn't armed, and the people who beat up Deters had impunity enough to not be arrested for months after doing so.

[Kahns Krazy]

Cop has long since lapped car salesman for lack of trust in many parts of our country. I don't know any now, used to come in contact with many in my old line of work, and while mine was almost always either an informational or helpful role in my interactions, very many of the officers i came into contact were ended up quite prickish, for no reason. The industry needs to do a much better job policing itself, and polishing its image. Not just because it's nice to be liked, but because their own safety and the safety of the citizens they work for relies on trust.

And when they aren't pricks, they're corrupt, and many are both. The Lincoln Heights story is unreal.

[Lamont Sanford]

Don't forget that most Cincinnati cops went to Elder HS either.

Just sayin...

[Frambo]

Don't forget that most Cincinnati cops went to Elder HS either.

Just sayin...

nothing wrong with Elder HS and the VAST majority of cops

Just sayin...

[Kahns Krazy]

I don't know about VAST majority. Even the cops I know that aren't real problems tend to be among the more prickish people I know. It just goes with the territory. You sign up for a career where your job is to tell other people what to do and bust them if they don't. That takes a certain kind of person that is willing to be an asshole to do their job well. The ones who are better at it tend to be natural assholes.

[Lamont Sanford]

nothing wrong with Elder HS and the VAST majority of cops

Just sayin...

Case in point...gladdenguy.

Nuff said.

[XU 87]

The cops I know are all great guys.

[muskienick]

The cops I know are all great guys.

The vast majority of those I know are also!

[xeus]

I don't know about VAST majority. Even the cops I know that aren't real problems tend to be among the more prickish people I know. It just goes with the territory. You sign up for a career where your job is to tell other people what to do and bust them if they don't. That takes a certain kind of person that is willing to be an asshole to do their job well. The ones who are better at it tend to be natural assholes.

And don't even get him started on firemen.

[MHettel]

Cop has long since lapped car salesman for lack of trust in many parts of our country. I don't know any now, used to come in contact with many in my old line of work, and while mine was almost always either an informational or helpful role in my interactions, very many of the officers i came into contact were ended up quite prickish, for no reason. The industry needs to do a much better job policing itself, and polishing its image. Not just because it's nice to be liked, but because their own safety and the safety of the citizens they work for relies on trust.

Maybe people should just worry about things they can actually control? Maybe if people decided not to commit crimes, the cops would act different?

[PM Thor]

Obviously I work with cops every day. Some are jerks, most are really cool. Just like a cross section of the population.

[xeus]

Obviously I work with firemen every day. Some are jerks, most are really lazy. Just like a cross section of the population.

This.

[Masterofreality]

Two Cleveland police officers shot in separate incidents in the last 48 hours. One of them black. Luckily because of body armor they will both survive.

Surprisingly no riots and no demonstrations. Where is the outrage? I'm sure that somewhere, some activist is trying to prove that the police "provoked" the shooters and the shooters' families are saying what good boys the shooters are. That they are just "misunderstood".

Man, if I'm a cop, I want cameras all over the freaking place.

[SM#24]

some activist is trying to prove that the police "provoked" the shooters and the shooters' families are saying what good boys the shooters are.
were the two shooters going to college ?

[Lamont Sanford]

were the two shooters going to college ?

Were they "just starting to turn their lives around too?"

[blobfan]

Obviously I work with cops every day. Some are jerks, most are really cool. Just like a cross section of the population.

So, if you are among those that thing the country is more than half full of jerks, you'll probably think the same about cops.

[bobbiemcgee]

Sage advice from my long gone father-in-law - "People are Crazy".

[DC Muskie]

Two Cleveland police officers shot in separate incidents in the last 48 hours. One of them black. Luckily because of body armor they will both survive.

Surprisingly no riots and no demonstrations. Where is the outrage? I'm sure that somewhere, some activist is trying to prove that the police "provoked" the shooters and the shooters' families are saying what good boys the shooters are. That they are just "misunderstood".

Except that there probably isn't.

It's nice to see that this thread keeps repeating itself.

[boozehound]

Obviously I work with cops every day. Some are jerks, most are really cool. Just like a cross section of the population.

You are a fire fighter though, so your experiences with them may be different than the average person due to your both being public servants. They may view you differently (in a more positive light) and treat you as such.

[xu82]

It's nice to see that this thread keeps repeating itself.

Apparently, People continue to be Crazy.

I don't anticipate that changing...

[PM Thor]

You are a fire fighter though, so your experiences with them may be different than the average person due to your both being public servants. They may view you differently (in a more positive light) and treat you as such.

Well you could look at it that way, or it could be that I get to interact with cops when they aren't in work mode too. I mean, when cops get called out, or pull someone over, it's almost always a bad day for the person with whom they are dealing. There is a certain amount of truth of interaction since cops and firefighters are both public servants, but if I can speak to the times I've dealt with them while not on duty, I still say some are jerks, some are cool. To paint a wide brush like saying most shouldn't be in public service or the whatnot is like saying Xeus and all lawyers are blood sucking mouth breathers who exploit the law for personal gain. Obviously that's not true either.

[GoMuskies]

Xeus and all lawyers are blood sucking mouth breathers who exploit the law for personal gain. Obviously that's not true either.

No, that's pretty much right.

[XU 87]

To paint a wide brush like saying most shouldn't be in public service or the whatnot is like saying Xeus and all lawyers are blood sucking mouth breathers who exploit the law for personal gain. Obviously that's not true either.

I would prefer to have that reputation. After all, no one wants to hire a lawyer who is "kind and gentle".

[Muskie]

I would prefer to have that reputation. After all, no one wants to hire a lawyer who is "kind and gentle".

I walk softly and carry a big stick.

[SemajParlor]

Surprisingly no riots and no demonstrations. Where is the outrage? I'm sure that somewhere, some activist is trying to prove that the police "provoked" the shooters and the shooters' families are saying what good boys the shooters are. That they are just "misunderstood".


Except that there probably isn't.

It's nice to see that this thread keeps repeating itself.

Using sarcasm to demonstrate a point that only supports his opposing viewpoint. Bold strategy, Cotton.

[LadyMuskie]

Xeus and all lawyers are blood sucking mouth breathers who exploit the law for personal gain. Obviously that's not true either.


No, that's pretty much right.

It really is a very accurate description. You just learn to live with it eventually.

[drudy23]

Most of the real evidence seems to be backing up the officer's story:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/22/justice/ferguson-michael-brown-autopsy/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Seems to be a game changer to me, but what do I know?

[XU 87]

Hmmmm. Maybe next time we should wait to hear the facts and physical evidence before making irresponsible statements and/or rioting.

On a side note, another example of liberals who believe in free speech, provided it's speech they agree with. All others should be ordered to shut up and/or not be permitted to speak at all.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/local/2014/10/21/protest-planned-columnists-miami-u-speech/17674025/

(I bet Dez Wells agrees with George Will.)

[NY44]

Most of the real evidence seems to be backing up the officer's story:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/22/justice/ferguson-michael-brown-autopsy/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Seems to be a game changer to me, but what do I know?

All this really does is confirm that there was a struggle. Which I think most people didn't have a doubt of. The reason Brown was shot after he had run away from the vehicle remains unclear.

[SemajParlor]

Hmmmm. Maybe next time we should wait to hear the facts and physical evidence before making irresponsible statements and/or rioting.

On a side note, another example of liberals who believe in free speech, provided it's speech they agree with. All others should be ordered to shut up and/or not be permitted to speak at all.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/local/2014/10/21/protest-planned-columnists-miami-u-speech/17674025/

(I bet Dez Wells agrees with George Will.)


States we shouldn't rush to judgment before hearing all sides.

Paints people who disagree with his ideologies with one broad stroke.

Anyways, here's a legal analysts take on the Brown case--- umm still not a case, I guess.

"But Cevallos said the details about Brown's blood on the officer's gun and on his uniform might only go so far in helping the officer's case.

"Ultimately, that officer will have to come up with justification not for firing his gun the first time, but for each and every bullet that came out of his firearm -- whether at the car or away from the car," he said."

[XU 87]

Paints people who disagree with his ideologies with one broad stroke.



I think you just "painted" me with "one broad stroke".

[SemajParlor]

I think you just "painted" me with "one broad stroke".

You can't triple stamp a double stamp Lloyd!

[XU 87]

"There's no standard like a double standard."

[Juice]

States we shouldn't rush to judgment before hearing all sides.

Paints people who disagree with his ideologies with one broad stroke.

Anyways, here's a legal analysts take on the Brown case--- umm still not a case, I guess.

"But Cevallos said the details about Brown's blood on the officer's gun and on his uniform might only go so far in helping the officer's case.

"Ultimately, that officer will have to come up with justification not for firing his gun the first time, but for each and every bullet that came out of his firearm -- whether at the car or away from the car," he said."

As someone who as of now is very much undecided on the issue, maybe with a slight lean in favor of the Brown side, this statement couldn't be anymore false. IF an officer decides to use deadly force (whether it is justified or not), he shoots to kill or incapacitate the suspect. Shooting once or simply maiming is not an option.

[NY44]

As someone who as of now is very much undecided on the issue, maybe with a slight lean in favor of the Brown side, this statement couldn't be anymore false. IF an officer decides to use deadly force (whether it is justified or not), he shoots to kill or incapacitate the suspect. Shooting once or simply maiming is not an option.

So once you deem it necessary to fire your gun you can fire it as many times as you want? Isn't it considered malicious at some point.

[drudy23]

All this really does is confirm that there was a struggle. Which I think most people didn't have a doubt of. The reason Brown was shot after he had run away from the vehicle remains unclear.

Um...no. There are widely different accounts of what happened at the cruiser.

It also confirms the officer's account is being supported by forensics (aka, he's telling the truth). If he's credible on what happened in the car, then his story about what happened outside of the car becomes more that much more believable (and likely also backed up by forensics (bullets entering the front of the body, head shot from Brown charging, etc).

Additionally, if Brown grabbed and tried to take his gun (apparently backed up by forensics), then any normal human would assume that if he charged again, he would go after the gun. At that point, based on the FACTS, he would be authorized to eliminate the threat both to himself and the public (if Brown actuall did get the gun).

It's not a "slam dunk, this case in over", but its certainly signals things are heading in that direction. Additionally, even if he is indicted, I just can't see him ever being convicted based on the FACTS of the case.

[drudy23]

So once you deem it necessary to fire your gun you can fire it as many times as you want? Isn't it considered malicious at some point.

Perhaps...but an officer firing his gun xxx number of times to eliminate a legitimate threat is not a crime. How many shots did he fire after the two kill shots to the head (as presented in the EVIDENCE)? We don't know....but if those were the last two shots, then yes, he needed all of them.

[XU 87]

At that point, based on the FACTS, he would be authorized to eliminate the threat both to himself and the public (if Brown actuall did get the gun).

It's not a "slam dunk, this case in over", but its certainly signals things are heading in that direction. Additionally, even if he is indicted, I just can't see him ever being convicted based on the FACTS of the case.

Facts? Who cares about the facts? There's a certain narrative that some want "proven"- the racist white cop killed the black kid for no reason and out of cold blood. And some will continue to champion that position regardless of what the facts show.

[blobfan]

Facts? Who cares about the facts? There's a certain narrative that some want "proven"- the racist white cop killed the black kid for no reason and out of cold blood. And some will continue to champion that position regardless of what the facts show.

Some? Several protesters have already been quoted saying they don't care and that anything less than a conviction of Office Wilson resulting in jail time means St Louis will burn.

[GoMuskies]

Some? Several protesters have already been quoted saying they don't care and that anything less than a conviction of Office Wilson resulting in jail time means St Louis will burn.

I never liked St. Louis anyway.

[Juice]

So once you deem it necessary to fire your gun you can fire it as many times as you want? Isn't it considered malicious at some point.

As necessary to kill or put the suspect down. Most officer shootings involve several or more shots. It's not one shot in the leg and it's over. That is not what they're trained to do.


With Mike Brown, regardless of if the cop was being attacked or not, there are people questioning why the cop killed him. If he did have to protect himself, why couldn’t the cop shoot to maim?

We are taught to shoot to eliminate the threat in the biggest target area possible. That just happens to be the upper torso. We’re not aiming to shoot you in the heart. If we had marksmanship like that, we wouldn’t be regular street cops. Sharp shooters have a unique skill and are placed into other specialized areas.

A cop should only be shooting if their life is being threatened. Regardless if the other person has a stick, a bat, a knife or a gun, it doesn’t matter. If my life is being threatened, I need to defend my safety. I’m going to shoot that biggest target area that I’ve been taught to shoot, and I’m going to keep shooting until that threat is done. If that’s one shot, okay. But if they don’t fall after four shots, guess what, I’m going to keep shooting. I’m protecting myself and I want to go home at night. But I should know that I did what was right in that situation at that time.

If you’re being attacked or threatened, you’re not going to try to shoot somebody in the arm or leg or hand. Those are really small targets. I’m not going to aim really hard to shoot a knife or gun out of somebody’s hand. That ain’t gonna freakin’ work dude. I’m going after the biggest target area I have and try to eliminate, which doesn’t mean kill them. You’re trying to use force to stop a threat. But if it’s a lethal situation, then unfortunately, that’s what it is.

It’s really hard to shoot at a small target. It would be nice if we could just be so good that we could shoot a gun out of someone’s hand. This ain’t the movies though. What happens if I miss completely and hit a kid down the street that was watching this whole thing? And I end up getting killed anyways. Who’s gonna be the asshole in this situation? Me. Because now I miss a guy and people wonder why I didn’t shoot him in the chest – where I’m less likely to miss. And I hit an innocent kid down the street and now we’re both dead.

http://www.passionweiss.com/2014/10/20/black-cop-black-cop-black-cop-black-cop/

[NY44]

Um...no. There are widely different accounts of what happened at the cruiser.

It also confirms the officer's account is being supported by forensics (aka, he's telling the truth). If he's credible on what happened in the car, then his story about what happened outside of the car becomes more that much more believable (and likely also backed up by forensics (bullets entering the front of the body, head shot from Brown charging, etc).

Additionally, if Brown grabbed and tried to take his gun (apparently backed up by forensics), then any normal human would assume that if he charged again, he would go after the gun. At that point, based on the FACTS, he would be authorized to eliminate the threat both to himself and the public (if Brown actuall did get the gun).

It's not a "slam dunk, this case in over", but its certainly signals things are heading in that direction. Additionally, even if he is indicted, I just can't see him ever being convicted based on the FACTS of the case.

If your sentences aren't enough to get your point across, capitalizing the words in them isn't going to help. You don't have to do that anymore. We can all read.

The new forensic evidence shows that Brown was shot in his hand and the shot was at such close proximity that it's fact that his hand was on the gun. That's the new fact in the case, nothing more. It doesn't suggest that Brown reached for the gun with intent to steal it anymore then it proves that he grabbed it because he was threatened with it.

[XU 87]

The new forensic evidence shows that Brown was shot in his hand and the shot was at such close proximity that it's fact that his hand was on the gun. That's the new fact in the case, nothing more. It doesn't suggest that Brown reached for the gun with intent to steal it anymore then it proves that he grabbed it because he was threatened with it.

One thing you are very consistent with- you never let the facts get in the way of your opinions.

[RealDeal]

I never liked St. Louis anyway.

Seriously, f### St. Louis.

[drudy23]

If your sentences aren't enough to get your point across, capitalizing the words in them isn't going to help. You don't have to do that anymore. We can all read.

.

I would say you are failing to understand, but we all know you understand. You will continue to say 1+1=3, even when you, and everyone else, knows the answer.

In fact, why don't you just burn your house down to even further prove your righteousness. And after that, go to your neighbors house and steal their TV...that will show us crazy racist White people!!!! You won man, we concede.

Effin jackballs.

[SemajParlor]

Facts? Who cares about the facts? There's a certain narrative that some want "proven"- the racist white cop killed the black kid for no reason and out of cold blood. And some will continue to champion that position regardless of what the facts show.

Oh crap, you've figured out my true motive. Nothing gets me going like putting innocent, hard working police men behind bars, let me tell ya!

[bobbiemcgee]

no bill

[Masterofreality]

No Indictment. Case Closed.

When you are ordered to do something by the Police, you best obey them. Period.

[DC Muskie]

no indictment. Case closed.

When you are ordered to do something by the police, you best obey them. Period.

hahahahahahahahaha.

[xu82]

I hope they order no riots. And I hope it works for a change!

[D-West & PO-Z]

hahahahahahahahaha.

Or else they are allowed to shoot you multiple times even if you are unarmed.

[GuyFawkes38]

Yikes, someone pull the mic from Mccullough. Just stop. Your not helping.

[DC Muskie]

Or else they are allowed to shoot you multiple times even if you are unarmed.

Brown bled all over the place it seems. You'd think if he had a gun or some sort of weapon, he would have brought out at some point.

[Masterofreality]

Or else they are allowed to shoot you multiple times even if you are unarmed.

Well, I guess they can according to a Grand Jury with 3 black members on it and that was under tremendous pressure to find otherwise.

[DC Muskie]

Well, I guess they can according to a Grand Jury with 3 black members on it and that was under tremendous pressure to find otherwise.

Case Closed! Do what you are told!

[Masterofreality]

Case Closed! Do what you are told!

That would be advisable.

[Juice]

No Indictment. Case Closed.

When you are ordered to do something by the Police, you best obey them. Period.

Yeah, that's not the law.

[NY44]

As it's been since the start, the secrecy around this incident is infuriating. This guy has been talking for 45 minutes but has said nothing.

[DC Muskie]

That would be advisable.

Have you ever watched Cops? It's been on since 1989 and basically the premise is people not doing what they are told, and managing not to get shot.

I bet that 12 year didn't do what he was told. Too bad he won't see 13.

[waggy]

He didn't get shot because he didn't do what he was told, or for jaywalking. He got shot because he sucker punched the cop and tried to take his gun.

[LadyMuskie]

That would be advisable.

I have family members and close friends who are police officers. I love and respect them. That said, there are many instances I can think of when I wouldn't necessarily do just anything a police officer told me to do. For example, I wouldn't allow for a search without a warrant. I also wouldn't stop my car on a dark road even if a police officer had his sirens and lights on if I was traveling alone or with just another female. I don't believe that all cops are good people, and I don't believe that all cops are bad people. But, being a white woman, I do think that I would survive those choices. I don't know that I'd feel as confident about my survival if my skin was a darker pigment or if I was a non-white male.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Have you ever watched Cops? It's been on since 1989 and basically the premise is people not doing what they are told, and managing not to get shot.

I bet that 12 year didn't do what he was told. Too bad he won't see 13.

Hahahahaha.

[waggy]

the secrecy around this incident is infuriating. .

No amount of detail would change your mind. None.

[LadyMuskie]

No amount of detail would change your mind. None.

This can be said of both sides.

[bobbiemcgee]

I have family members and close friends who are police officers. I love and respect them. That said, there are many instances I can think of when I wouldn't necessarily do just anything a police officer told me to do. For example, I wouldn't allow for a search without a warrant. I also wouldn't stop my car on a dark road even if a police officer had his sirens and lights on if I was traveling alone or with just another female. I don't believe that all cops are good people, and I don't believe that all cops are bad people. But, being a white woman, I do think that I would survive those choices. I don't know that I'd feel as confident about my survival if my skin was a darker pigment or if I was a non-white male.

If a white male jumped into a police car, he would suffer the same outcome imho. GSR on Brown's hand did it for me. Not to mention he just committed a strong arm robbery.

[Juice]

If a white male jumped into a police car, he would suffer the same outcome imho. GSR on Brown's hand did it for me. Not to mention he just committed a strong arm robbery.

This has little to nothing to do with whether he should have been indicted or not.

[D-West & PO-Z]

This has little to nothing to do with whether he should have been indicted or not.

This

[D-West & PO-Z]

Why would they wait until night to announce the decision. So dumb.

[bobbiemcgee]

The Grand Jury saw the tape, so I'm sure they just disregarded it.

[NY44]

No amount of detail would change your mind. None.

We'll never know if this is true, but at least we know that it took no details to convince you.

Sometimes Unfortunate Things Happen In The Heat Of A 400-Year-Old Legacy Of Racism (http://www.theonion.com/articles/sometimes-unfortunate-things-happen-in-the-heat-of,36690/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Pic:NA:InFocus)

The Onion nails it as always. Perfect satire.

[Masterofreality]

Have you ever watched Cops? It's been on since 1989 and basically the premise is people not doing what they are told, and managing not to get shot.

I bet that 12 year didn't do what he was told. Too bad he won't see 13.

And that 12 year old was waving a bee bee pistol that he had made to look like a real gun at people in a park. ..without the orange barrel cover. He was called into police and was reported by eyewitnesses to the police to be 20 years old. He was ordered to raise his hands. He reached into his pants and pulled out the pistol and began to raise it toward the officers.

He disobeyed the proper order. Very sad, but he was wrong and paid the price...and no one is rioting here in Cleveland.

[LadyMuskie]

And that 12 year old was waving a bee bee pistol that he had made to look like a real gun at people in a park. ..without the orange barrel cover. He was called into police and was reported by eyewitnesses to the police to be 20 years old. He was ordered to raise his hands. He reached into his pants and pulled out the pistol and began to raise it toward the officers.

He disobeyed the proper order. Very sad, but he was wrong and paid the price...and no one is rioting here in Cleveland.

They've discovered that he bought the gun the way he had it - hence Alicia Reese's legislation. Additionally, the 911 caller indicated that he thought the gun was not real.

[LadyMuskie]

But the rioting is just stupid. It does not help anyone in any way.

[drudy23]

This can be said of both sides.

What is both sides? Everyone on TV says it's a Black and White thing. To me, it's a legal thing. I wouldn't have cared if he got indicted if the evidence pointed to that. I wouldn't have rioted, or went on some rant, or protested...I would have went on with my day. OK, based on the law, he was indicted...fine by me.

Pretty sure 99% of White people feel the same way.

If both sides mean educated vs uneducated...then fine. But if he deserved it based on the evidence....whatever, indict away.

[Snipe]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/st-louis-county-police-scanner

Animals

[drudy23]

But the rioting is just stupid. It does not help anyone in any way.

Do you really think the rioters have any type of conscience to even care? They're not doing it to "help"...they're just being themselves.

[xu82]

But the rioting is just stupid. It does not help anyone in any way.

Unless you nedd new sneakers. And then you can run away faster through all the broken glass.

[drudy23]

But the President said to be peaceful? I just don't understand.

[D-West & PO-Z]

How does conflicting evidence/testimony lead to a non indictment. Doesnt every case have conflicting evidence/testimony?

And if he shot Michael Brown twice in his car he decided that he needed to shot him 4 more times outside of his car?

This prosecutor seems to be kind of an idiot.

[Frambo]

How does conflicting evidence/testimony lead to a non indictment. Doesnt every case have conflicting evidence/testimony?

And if he shot Michael Brown twice in his car he decided that he needed to shot him 4 more times outside of his car?

This prosecutor seems to be kind of an idiot.

did you listen to something different than I did????? Witnesses (blacks) had Brown coming back at the officer, some saying he was bum-rushing him. Other witnesses recanted their 'hands up' accounts when confronted with physical evidence some saying that they had heard what happened from others. The convenience store video where Brown turned towards the clerk showed me enough to think that he was capable of confronting someone, which is apparently what he did according to believable accounts and evidence. The prosecutor would not be the only one making decisions on how this was handled....the governor and Holder were involved too. Sucks that Holder wasn't at the press conference to say that the DOJ agreed with the decision.....chicken shit political move.

[Snipe]

Mogadishu

[Snipe]

Ferguson will never recover from this. Many of those shops will not return. Hello Detroit

90% of those arrested are not from Ferguson

People travel all over the country to come burn Ferguson down

Our media fan the flames

I would nuke Ferguson personally

[NY44]

the governor and Holder were involved too. Sucks that Holder wasn't at the press conference to say that the DOJ agreed with the decision.....chicken shit political move.

Holder just released a statment saying that "...the Justice Department's Investigation into the shooting of Michael Brown remains ongoing."

"...the federal inquiry has been independent of the local one from the start."

[STL_XUfan]

Ferguson will never recover from this. Many of those shops will not return. Hello Detroit

90% of those arrested are not from Ferguson

People travel all over the country to come burn Ferguson down

Our media fan the flames

I would nuke Ferguson personally

Yep, just like Over the Rhine will never recover.

[Snipe]

OTR is doing well

I don't like Ferguson's chances. Feel free to invest your capital there. I think they will have some openings

[Snipe]

I would torch my own place for the insurance money and leave and never look back.

Somalia

[Snipe]

The old Mayor Daiey rocks from the grave:


The year 1968 was a momentous year for Daley. In April, Daley was castigated by many for his sharp rhetoric in the aftermath of rioting that took place after Martin Luther King, Jr.'s assassination. Displeased with what he saw as an over-cautious police response to the rioting, Daley chastised police superintendent James B. Conlisk and subsequently related that conversation at a City Hall press conference as follows:[11]

"I said to him very emphatically and very definitely that an order be issued by him immediately to shoot to kill any arsonist or anyone with a Molotov cocktail in his hand, because they're potential murderers, and to shoot to maim or cripple anyone looting."

This statement generated significant controversy. Daley's supporters deluged his office with grateful letters and telegrams (nearly 4,500 according to Time magazine), and it has been credited for Chicago's being one of the cities least affected by the riots. But others were appalled. Rev. Jesse Jackson, for example, called it "a fascist's response."

We need some Korean Shopkeepers from the LA Riots. Those guys have balls of steel

Shoot to kill, shoot to maim. Daley is a hero.

[Snipe]

This is part of the Democratic party model of voter turnout. As I noted earlier in this thread, in the last election cycle we had St. Travon (Trademark)

Do we get to do this every two years to increase African American voter turnout at the polls. They turned the crimescene into a voter registration drive. They literally had a booth to register voters where the young thug died.

People these people on TV voting will solve all the problems. I get it.

Hope that works for you.

[STL_XUfan]

This is part of the Democratic party model of voter turnout. As I noted earlier in this thread, in the last election cycle we had St. Travon (Trademark)

Do we get to do this every two years to increase African American voter turnout at the polls. They turned the crimescene into a voter registration drive. They literally had a booth to register voters where the young thug died.

People these people on TV voting will solve all the problems. I get it.

Hope that works for you.

This is a fairly ignorant post as it comes to Missouri politics. Democrats almost lost the St. Louis County executive race because of this, which is unheard of (was within .1%). Everyone involed here that the protesters are pissed at are Democrats.

[Snipe]

I didn't say it is Missouri politics. Travon Martin wasnt Sanford politics. I do not know nor care about Missouri or Sanford Florida politics.

I believe it is about national politics. Every election cycle we are ginning up racial animosity and reminding black voters that Republicans are racist.

I honestly don't see an end in sight.

Is it just me? Nobody else sees this?

[RoseyMuskie]

I would torch my own place for the insurance money and leave and never look back.

Somalia

Sad part is, riot and civil unrest are oftentimes not covered causes of loss. So yeah, those local business owners are out of luck. McDonald's is probably backed somehow by a corporate policy, but as I said, not the local entities. Going to be debilitating for the area's owners.

[Snipe]

Wow Rosey that is just horrible. If those people aren't covered they will lose everything.

And I doubt those fires were set by people that live in Ferguson.

Social Justice for everyone!

[SemajParlor]

OMG MIKE BROWN BROKE THE COPS FACE WHEN HE PUNCHED AND ATTACKED HIM. WILSON DIDNT HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE. SHOOT THEM ALL!!!!

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/photos-show-officer-darren-wilson-after-michael-brown-shooting-n255486

[bobbiemcgee]

Sad part is, riot and civil unrest are oftentimes not covered causes of loss. So yeah, those local business owners are out of luck. McDonald's is probably backed somehow by a corporate policy, but as I said, not the local entities. Going to be debilitating for the area's owners.

Has never made any sense to me. Watts, etc. Get mad at the cops, burn down your own businesses/residences. Town is a burned out hulk nobody will ever want to come back to. Dumbasses. You ain't hurting the cops. They love the OT and go home to Suburbia.

[SemajParlor]

U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162K federal cases in 2010. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The difference in coverage between MSNBC and Fox tonight is so hilarious.

[D-West & PO-Z]

U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162K federal cases in 2010. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11.

Saw this earlier. Pretty crazy. 2010 is the latest data made public. Kind of a joke huh?

[D-West & PO-Z]

U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162K federal cases in 2010. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11.

1547

[SemajParlor]

1547

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/

[Juice]

U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162K federal cases in 2010. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11.

In my limited knowledge to the differences between local and federal cases, the Feds don't pursue charges unless it's a slam dunk.

[SemajParlor]

Pretty much this.

https://twitter.com/KFCBarstool/status/537099152610852865

[bobbiemcgee]

If you start punching a cop in the face, he may shoot you.

[Juice]

If you start punching a cop in the face, he may shoot you.

That's also not the law.

[SemajParlor]

If you start punching a cop in the face, he may shoot you.

Jesus.

[Frambo]

Holder just released a statment saying that "...the Justice Department's Investigation into the shooting of Michael Brown remains ongoing."

"...the federal inquiry has been independent of the local one from the start."

I didn't see that NY, but it is still a chicken shit political move in my book.....the DOJ was supposed to be overlooking it all and be helping the locals - "Two days after Officer Darren Wilson shot Brown, Holder vowed that the DOJ would “supplement, rather than supplant, the inquiry by local authorities.” But now that they don't like the outcome, he and his Boss want to keep investigating.

[Muskie]

In my limited knowledge to the differences between local and federal cases, the Feds don't pursue charges unless it's a slam dunk.

The prosecutor in this case stated he presented all of the evidence to the grand jury so they would have a full picture. In a normal grand jury the prosecutor produces just enough evidence (that is usually slanted in the prosecutors view) to get an indictment. I'd be cautious about comparing this grand jury with others or statistics. This wasn't a typical presentation to a grand jury.

[Juice]

The prosecutor in this case stated he presented all of the evidence to the grand jury so they would have a full picture. In a normal grand jury the prosecutor produces just enough evidence (that is usually slanted in the prosecutors view) to get an indictment. I'd be cautious about comparing this grand jury with others or statistics. This wasn't a typical presentation to a grand jury.

We are using different reasons but yes that was my point as well.

[NY44]

I didn't see that NY, but it is still a chicken shit political move in my book.....the DOJ was supposed to be overlooking it all and be helping the locals - "Two days after Officer Darren Wilson shot Brown, Holder vowed that the DOJ would “supplement, rather than supplant, the inquiry by local authorities.” But now that they don't like the outcome, he and his Boss want to keep investigating.

Did you read the rest of the statement? That's exactly what he said he did.

"Though we have shared information with local prosecutors during the course of our investigation, the federal inquiry has been independent of the local one from the start, and remains so now."

[D-West & PO-Z]

Pretty much this.

https://twitter.com/KFCBarstool/status/537099152610852865

Jesus, seriously.

If shooting someone, who doesnt have a gun, twice while in the car and then at least 4 more times out of the car didnt seem fishy enough, now the pictures of his "beating" come out and it looks like he spent a little too long in the sun at the beach.

[XU 87]

Jesus, seriously.

If shooting someone, who doesnt have a gun, twice while in the car and then at least 4 more times out of the car didnt seem fishy enough, now the pictures of his "beating" come out and it looks like he spent a little too long in the sun at the beach.

I find it interesting when people who know nothing about the facts of a case know more than the people who listened to the facts of a case for several weeks.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I find it interesting when people who know nothing about the facts of a case know more than the people who listened to the facts of a case for several weeks.

AH I forgot no one outside of the grand jury is allowed an opinion. Nowhere did I say I know more. Sounds fishy. Even a Fox News host last night said that!

Shut the thread down!

[D-West & PO-Z]

I just looked at the photos again and let me correct myself.

In no way does it look like he was sun burnt. Maybe he is camera shy and he was blushing. Blushing is definitely the more appropriate word.

[Masterofreality]

I guess the summary is that some trust the Justice System more than others.

[xavierj]

I wonder how many of the thugs burning down ferguson had to get up for work today. My guess is zero. Keep living off the system and find ways to get more free handouts and make people feel sorry for you to justify your crimes. The American way!

[NY44]

I find it interesting when people who know nothing about the facts of a case know more than the people who listened to the facts of a case for several weeks.

I agree, but there haven't been many made available and I'd love to see the transcripts from the case. I know you're involved in law, so this is an honest question: isn't the grand jury process largely based on the facts brought to the jury by the prosecutor? I've heard several pundits hypothesize that McCullough "punted" this case to the grand jury.

[XU 87]

I agree, but there haven't been many made available and I'd love to see the transcripts from the case. I know you're involved in law, so this is an honest question: isn't the grand jury process largely based on the facts brought to the jury by the prosecutor? I've heard several pundits hypothesize that McCullough "punted" this case to the grand jury.

I don't do criminal law. But I tend to agree with what Muskie wrote above.

[bleedXblue]

You can debate this until your blue in the face. Nothings going to change with "this" case. But, you can clearly sense that a significant change in how law enforcement is going to held accountable in the future. Just because you have a gun and a badge, doesn't mean your untouchable. I suspect that's the way its been for a long, long time. Every cop should have to wear a camera. Video evidence in this case obviously would have made a huge difference. I don't think Browns death is a complete loss. Something positive is going to come from this. It will take some time.......but something good will come from this.

[D-West & PO-Z]

You can debate this until your blue in the face. Nothings going to change with "this" case. But, you can clearly sense that a significant change in how law enforcement is going to held accountable in the future. Just because you have a gun and a badge, doesn't mean your untouchable. I suspect that's the way its been for a long, long time. Every cop should have to wear a camera. Video evidence in this case obviously would have made a huge difference. I don't think Browns death is a complete loss. Something positive is going to come from this. It will take some time.......but something good will come from this.

There seems to be little reason for this not to happen. It will protect both police officers and citizens.

[SemajParlor]

But, you can clearly sense that a significant change in how law enforcement is going to held accountable in the future. Just because you have a gun and a badge, doesn't mean your untouchable.

2014 in America. Yes, yes you are.

[SemajParlor]

I find it interesting when people who know nothing about the facts of a case know more than the people who listened to the facts of a case for several weeks.

True, justice system has never been wrong.

[GoMuskies]

Rioters, though, are always right.

[SemajParlor]

Rioters, though, are always right.

Two separate issues. I think those who rioted and looted were not right at all.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Rioters, though, are always right.

No excuse for rioting and unfortunately thats the topic of conversation and takes away from what the real discussion should be.

[XU 87]

True, justice system has never been wrong.

Now, did I say that?

But as I said to you earlier, you have a narrative and you're sticking to it.

[NY44]

No excuse for rioting and unfortunately thats the topic of conversation and takes away from what the real discussion should be.

It takes away from the real discussion by people who are unwilling to admit that the real issue here isn't rioting. Here's an excuse for rioting: it get's people talking about the issue. After all, we are having this discussion in a thread started because of rioting, not because of the shooting.

[GoMuskies]

Yes, but no one takes the issue seriously when there is rioting.

[vee4xu]

I listened to the prosecutor's presser driving home from Cintas last night. Two things struck me. One, Mr. Brown's blood and DNA were on Officer Wilson's gun during the initial tussle in the cruiser. Two, the prosecutor was asked if any black witnesses testified that Mr. Brown "charged" at Officer Wilson after Mr. Brown fled and before he was shot. Answer: yes, several. Finally, I heard this morning about Missouri's law regarding the standard at which an officer may deem someone a threat to the community or the officer's personal well being. The grand jury decided that the standard was met and Officer Wilson was justified in defending himself AND the community at large. I haven't looked at the Missouri law but plan to.

These are facts directly from the presser. Do with them what you want but at least factor them into your thinking.

[blobfan]

I have family members and close friends who are police officers. I love and respect them. That said, there are many instances I can think of when I wouldn't necessarily do just anything a police officer told me to do. For example, I wouldn't allow for a search without a warrant. I also wouldn't stop my car on a dark road even if a police officer had his sirens and lights on if I was traveling alone or with just another female. I don't believe that all cops are good people, and I don't believe that all cops are bad people. But, being a white woman, I do think that I would survive those choices. I don't know that I'd feel as confident about my survival if my skin was a darker pigment or if I was a non-white male.
Agreed. I have little doubt that there is a very big problem in the interaction between law enforcement and minorities. I've heard accounts from friends in addition to the personal stories I've read from news outlets online. It just seems that the cases that inspire people to rise up are not worthy and are deliberately mis-represented to stir people up. And the problem goes both ways: officers expect law breakers to come in a certain color and people of certain colors expect that the law is always against them so they are disrespectful.

Why pick this undeserving kid as the poster boy? It just skews the argument towards the specific case and not the bigger issues. Why not riot over the treatment of the Hammond IN family that got harassed during a traffic stop (http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/26719562/hammond-family-claims-police-overstepped-their-authority-in-traffic-stop) or the local doctor who was tasered and dragged from his house based on a false statement by a girlfriend (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/crime/2014/10/21/doctor-sues-police-for-heart-attack/17691631/). We would get to the heart of the matter quicker if we could highlight the cases of people harassed while doing right and not some idiot with a history of breaking the law that runs or starts a confrontation with police, armed or not.

[blobfan]

OMG MIKE BROWN BROKE THE COPS FACE WHEN HE PUNCHED AND ATTACKED HIM. WILSON DIDNT HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE. SHOOT THEM ALL!!!!

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/photos-show-officer-darren-wilson-after-michael-brown-shooting-n255486
I sure wish that the only pain I ever felt came from physically visible marks. I've had fingers and elbows hit hard enough to make my knees unlock and not a mark was left. I've had rough-housing kids hit my nose so hard I was sure it would be purple for weeks but no mark was left. Is it beyond comprehension that this ruddy faced guy might have been punched hard enough to hurt, hard enough to make him feel he was in danger, and still not have a lasting mark on his face?

But why am I bothering to say this to you? You've had one agenda from the beginning and will not consider anything that doesn't fit your thesis. While these pictures do not necessarily support the officer's account, they do not refute it either.

[XU 87]

I listened to the prosecutor's presser driving home from Cintas last night. Two things struck me. One, Mr. Brown's blood and DNA were on Officer Wilson's gun during the initial tussle in the cruiser. Two, the prosecutor was asked if any black witnesses testified that Mr. Brown "charged" at Officer Wilson after Mr. Brown fled and before he was shot. Answer: yes, several. Finally, I heard this morning about Missouri's law regarding the standard at which an officer may deem someone a threat to the community or the officer's personal well being. The grand jury decided that the standard was met and Officer Wilson was justified in defending himself AND the community at large. I haven't looked at the Missouri law but plan to.

These are facts directly from the presser. Do with them what you want but at least factor them into your thinking.

And I suspect some will still say in response to all of this, "I don't care about the facts, the testimony or who testified. All I care about is that a white cop shot an unarmed black man and a cop should never do that. The cop should be indicted."

[D-West & PO-Z]

I sure wish that the only pain I ever felt came from physically visible marks. I've had fingers and elbows hit hard enough to make my knees unlock and not a mark was left. I've had rough-housing kids hit my nose so hard I was sure it would be purple for weeks but no mark was left. Is it beyond comprehension that this ruddy faced guy might have been punched hard enough to hurt, hard enough to make him feel he was in danger, and still not have a lasting mark on his face?

But why am I bothering to say this to you? You've had one agenda from the beginning and will not consider anything that doesn't fit your thesis. While these pictures do not necessarily support the officer's account, they do not refute it either.

Why are you singling out him as the only person that has had one agenda? Several people have also had one agenda on the opposite side yet you single him out as the unreasonable poster? Hmmm

[drudy23]

It takes away from the real discussion by people who are unwilling to admit that the real issue here isn't rioting. Here's an excuse for rioting: it get's people talking about the issue. After all, we are having this discussion in a thread started because of rioting, not because of the shooting.

Is there an issue with Black - cop relations? Probably.

But there's also an issue with Black inner city behavior.

I have heard "when is enough enough?" from thousands of Black people online, on screen, in-person, etc. If "when is enough's enough" applies to the cops, then it applies to the Black behavior as well.

Cops just aren't going around killing people.

[XU 87]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/darren-wilson/witnesss-said-brown-charged-wilson-897043

Is it ok for a cop to shoot a guy who has 1) tried to take his gun 2) is much larger than he and 3) is now running straight at him?

[drudy23]

Two separate issues. I think those who rioted and looted were not right at all.

Those rioters are the same type of people that find themselves in situations where cops choose to use deadly force...so yes, it's related. If Mike Brown wasn't the victim, he would have been out there setting the fires and looting the stores.

[bobbiemcgee]

I wonder how many of the thugs burning down ferguson had to get up for work today.

I'm guessing how many people didn't have to get to work today cuz the thugs burnt down their job last night.

[Xville]

Here's the point...cops don't just go around shooting people..period. Somehow in all of my years of life, I have never been shot at by a police officer. I wonder why that is? Probably because I don't rob convenience stores, fight with cops, or try to take their gun. Or maybe it's because i'm white...yeah I'm sure that's the reason. :facepalm:

[GoMuskies]

"Let's burn this bitch down!"

Rallying call for the ages.

[SemajParlor]

Why are you singling out him as the only person that has had one agenda? Several people have also had one agenda on the opposite side yet you single him out as the unreasonable poster? Hmmm

Yep, nothing new here.

[SemajParlor]

Those rioters are the same type of people that find themselves in situations where cops choose to use deadly force...so yes, it's related. If Mike Brown wasn't the victim, he would have been out there setting the fires and looting the stores.

My head and heart both simultaneously hurt because there are people who think this way.

[Juice]

I wonder how many of the thugs burning down ferguson had to get up for work today. My guess is zero. Keep living off the system and find ways to get more free handouts and make people feel sorry for you to justify your crimes. The American way!

Whether that's true or not, that has nothing to do with the decision on whether to indict Wilson or not. But sure insult black people to justify your point.

[NY44]

My head and heart both simultaneously hurt because there are people who think this way.

Calling it thought is quite the stretch. Even for you.

[blobfan]

Why are you singling out him as the only person that has had one agenda? Several people have also had one agenda on the opposite side yet you single him out as the unreasonable poster? Hmmm

This thread is 116 pages long and months old. Go back and read everything I've posted before you accuse me of singling one person out.

Add this (http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/24/us/stand-your-ground-plea-florida/index.html?hpt=hp_t3) to the list of cases that are more deserving of protest and unrest than the Michael Brown shooting.

[Masterofreality]

Those rioters are the same type of people that find themselves in situations where cops choose to use deadly force...so yes, it's related. If Mike Brown wasn't the victim, he would have been out there setting the fires and looting the stores.


My head and heart both simultaneously hurt because there are people who think this way.

One could argue that Michael Brown already DID his looting... Of Cigarillos in the convenience store where he didn't pay. But let's not pay any attention to that.

Check the tape.

[blobfan]

Whether that's true or not, that has nothing to do with the decision on whether to indict Wilson or not. But sure insult black people to justify your point.

People looting and burning ARE thugs, no matter their color! They are distinctly different from the protesters. This result was expected. People have been planning a riot for weeks. I bet even if there was an indictment, even if the officer was convicted and locked up for life, the same people burning and looting in Ferguson last night in protest would be out there burning and looting in celebration.

[GoMuskies]

People looting and burning ARE thugs

+1.

[Masterofreality]

People looting and burning ARE thugs, no matter their color! They are distinctly different from the protesters. This result was expected. People have been planning a riot for weeks. I bet even if there was an indictment, even if the officer was convicted and locked up for life, the same people burning and looting in Ferguson last night in protest would be out there burning and looting in celebration.

See the university of VD. Win a basketball game, burn couches.

[xavierj]

Whether that's true or not, that has nothing to do with the decision on whether to indict Wilson or not. But sure insult black people to justify your point.

What? How was insulting black people? I stated thugs who are burning ferguson to the ground. You must think all thugs who burn and loot places are black.

[Xville]

Whether that's true or not, that has nothing to do with the decision on whether to indict Wilson or not. But sure insult black people to justify your point.

You are right that it doesn't. However, it does underline a major problem with our society today. It's the mentality of whoa is me, everyone is out to get me, i never cause any of the problems that i have...everyone else does it to me, I don't work because there are no jobs, government should pay for me because i am so oppressed. That mentality is not a race problem either, its a generational problem that has permeated a large group of people within our society. And it is with that mentality, that people go out and do things like loot and riot, because instead of actually making their situation better thru hard work, they'd rather just try and take what other people have built because that is easier in their mind.

[SemajParlor]

Penn State students rioting were big time thugs after Paterno left.

[GoMuskies]

Penn State students rioting were big time thugs after Paterno left.

Only the black ones.

Just want to make sure and give you what you want.

[SemajParlor]

One could argue that Michael Brown already DID his looting... Of Cigarillos in the convenience store where he didn't pay. But let's not pay any attention to that.

Check the tape.

Zing. Let's throw dirt on a dead kids name. You got him!

[LadyMuskie]

Being dead doesn't absolve one of one's crimes. Michael Brown was not a saint. He wasn't a "good kid".

[GoMuskies]

His parents are alive, so they're fair game right? Was the guy wearing the "I am Michael Brown" shirt hugging the mom right after the verdict the father? If so, I feel safe in saying that Brown's dad is a real piece of shit.

[xavierj]

Penn State students rioting were big time thugs after Paterno left.

I would agree. The only difference is that working class educated people, regardless of race, do not burn and damage property and then collect government handouts. Most of these people looting could give two shits about Mike Brown. They would shoot him themselves if they could get something out of it.

[NY44]

Is there an issue with Black - cop relations? Probably.

But there's also an issue with Black inner city behavior.

I have heard "when is enough enough?" from thousands of Black people online, on screen, in-person, etc. If "when is enough's enough" applies to the cops, then it applies to the Black behavior as well.

Cops just aren't going around killing people.

Not that your point is relevant at all, but the NAACP and black leaders have held summits to work to fix black violence.

[GoMuskies]

His parents are alive, so they're fair game right? Was the guy wearing the "I am Michael Brown" shirt hugging the mom right after the verdict the father? If so, I feel safe in saying that Brown's dad is a real piece of shit.

After some digging, I learned that the father has gone to Soon (wherever that is) and that the piece of shit referenced is the stepfather.

[LadyMuskie]

Not that your point is relevant at all, but the NAACP and black leaders have held summits to work to fix black violence.

Yes, and with good intentions. Not unlike how the UN has held summits to end world hunger. Yet, there is still a crazy amount of violence in the black community and there is still world hunger. Talking in a room, removed from the issue at hand, rarely changes anything.

[GoMuskies]

Bill Cosby has talked it about it a lot, too, in between rapes.

[SemajParlor]

I would agree. The only difference is that working class educated people, regardless of race, do not burn and damage property and then collect government handouts. Most of these people looting could give two shits about Mike Brown. They would shoot him themselves if they could get something out of it.

New development: people who riots are thugs WITH the caveat that they also collect government handouts.

[XU 87]

You don't think that these people who are rioting and burning down buildings are thugs?

[xavierj]

New development: people who riots are thugs WITH the caveat that they also collect government handouts.

No. My point that educated working class people are not people who riot and burn things to the ground nor are they typically living off the government. People who tend to burn property and steal things are also usually not working class and usually live off the government regardless of the color of thier skin. To me people who try to justify the behavior and make it about race are a big part of the problem.

[waggy]

I think those who rioted and looted were not right at all.


Huh?

Seems to me you forwarded the idea that it was actually intellegent.

[GuyFawkes38]

Thug is too generous of a word to those who literally bring lighter fluid to a protest rally. It's painful to try to watch anyone defend them.

[SemajParlor]

Thug is too generous of a word to those who literally bring lighter fluid to a protest rally. It's painful to try to watch anyone defend them.

True. I'm a tanks, riot gear, and tear gas guy myself.

[XU 87]

True. I'm a tanks, riot gear, and tear gas guy myself.


What do you mean by this? Would you prefer the police shoot these rioters? Would you prefer the police not wear riot gear and instead wear shorts and t-shirts?

[Lamont Sanford]

True. I'm a tanks, riot gear, and tear gas guy myself.

What he said.

[xavierj]

True. I'm a tanks, riot gear, and tear gas guy myself.

Wow. Are you sure you were not the guy setting fires and raising your hands in excitement last night?

[D-West & PO-Z]

No. My point that educated working class people are not people who riot and burn things to the ground nor are they typically living off the government. People who tend to burn property and steal things are also usually not working class and usually live off the government regardless of the color of thier skin. To me people who try to justify the behavior and make it about race are a big part of the problem.

Might wanna check with the entire student body at UK.

[xavierj]

Might wanna check with the entire student body at UK.

That is actually a good point. If they burned and looted I would feel the same way and Classify them as thugs as well although I do not think they were burning down businesses and hurting some middle class small businessman who has a family to feed.

[waggy]

Riot gear and tear gas are necessary. Duh.

Phucking Duh.

[Pete Delkus]

Related...
http://www.fitsnews.com/2014/11/24/milwaukee-police-chief-goes/

[NY44]

Riot gear and tear gas are necessary. Duh.

Phucking Duh.

Yes, if you plan on shooting someone and then not prosecuting the shooter, you're probably going to need that stuff.

Here are some quotes from people who understand life in Ferguson, rather than just bullet points from one incident:

"This is not about vandalizing..This is about fighting a police organization that doesn't care about the lives they serve."

"I support my people who are out there doing it...For years they've been taking from us. We don't care."

EDIT: I can't blame the people of Ferguson for using this opportunity to show the world what they're dealing with in police hostility.

[GuyFawkes38]

Yes, if you plan on shooting someone and then not prosecuting the shooter, you're probably going to need that stuff.

Here are some quotes from people who understand life in Ferguson, rather than just bullet points from one incident:

"This is not about vandalizing..This is about fighting a police organization that doesn't care about the lives they serve."

"I support my people who are out there doing it...For years they've been taking from us. We don't care."

This is a defense for looting and burning down, mostly minority owned, stores? Yikes.

The riots of the 60's were devastating to African American neighborhoods. Nothing good comes out of this.

[GoMuskies]

The police were mistreating us, so we burned down Walgreens!

-Thug logic

[NY44]

Mike Brown was running at the officer, so your lives are fine.

-Your logic

[OH.X.MI]

"This is not about vandalizing..This is about fighting a police organization that doesn't care about the lives they serve."

"I support my people who are out there doing it...For years they've been taking from us. We don't care."

Come on man. That's just bullshit. I am sure there were people out there who legitimately wanted to protest. But that is not at all what happened. I mean we all watched live stream video of people stealing bottles out of a liquor store last night. That's vandalization, that's destruction, that's ignorantly harming their own community. The owners of those stores and business didn't take anything form anyone and they sure as shit aren't the police.

[waggy]

"This is not about vandalizing..This is about fighting a police organization that doesn't care about the lives they serve."

"I support my people who are out there doing it...For years they've been taking from us. We don't care."

EDIT: I can't blame the people of Ferguson for using this opportunity to show the world what they're dealing with in police hostility.


This the USA. It IS the best country in the world. No matter how bad they think they got it. They are free men. They are NOT oppressed. Fergeson PD doesn't routinely organize themselves in riot gear. Remember the photo of the force? It's laughable that that the assembly of keystone cops could be oppressing anything.

This is all nothing but a bunch of thuggery because they don't like their plight. But it's not oppression.

[XU 87]

Mike Brown was running at the officer, so your lives are fine.

-Your logic

No, he was running at the officer after he tried to steal the officer's gun and after the gun was discharged. That's sort of an important point to leave out, don't you think?

It really is somewhat amazing how some of you bend over backwords to find the cop at fault and Brown not at fault. Facts be damned. You have a narrative (racist white cop killed young black kid without cause) and you're sticking to it.

[GoMuskies]

Mike Brown was running at the officer, so your lives are fine.

-Your logic


That's a fairly awful rejoinder. Try again, please.

[waggy]

Mike Brown was running at the officer, so your lives are fine.

-Your logic


This doesn't even make any sense.

Which isn't surprising really.

[SemajParlor]

People got really sympathetic to minority business owners in Ferguson, Missouri pretty quick.

[GoMuskies]

People got really sympathetic to minority business owners in Ferguson, Missouri pretty quick.

Of course we did. What did the Koreans ever do to us?

[XU 87]

People got really sympathetic to minority business owners in Ferguson, Missouri pretty quick.

You write some "interesting" stuff. What do you mean by this? Personally, I'm sympathetic to all business owners, regardless of race, who have their businesses looted or their buildings burned down. The fact that you're a small business who may not recover from such conduct makes it all the worse.

[bobbiemcgee]

Giuliani obiviously a racist. You ain't allowed to disburse common sense in America anymore. You will never hear Sharpton or Crump talking about these tragedies:

"I find it very disappointing that you're not discussing the fact that 93 percent of blacks in America are killed by other blacks," Giuliani said. "We're talking about the exception here."

[LadyMuskie]

Anyone who thinks that burning down a neighborhood does anything but bolster the argument that deadly force is necessary against certain segments of the public is a Grade A, first class moron. How incredibly stupid and thoughtless to play directly into the hands of your critics who will laugh in yhappily say " I told you so". Protest, yes. But use it as an opportunity to rise above, not prove the theory that Ferguson is a hot bed of ill-tempered dumb-asses with nothing better to do than rob and pillage who can't be trusted. After all, if you're willing to destroy your own, what will you do to others?

[blobfan]

You are right that it doesn't. However, it does underline a major problem with our society today. It's the mentality of whoa is me, everyone is out to get me, i never cause any of the problems that i have...everyone else does it to me, I don't work because there are no jobs, government should pay for me because i am so oppressed. That mentality is not a race problem either, its a generational problem that has permeated a large group of people within our society. And it is with that mentality, that people go out and do things like loot and riot, because instead of actually making their situation better thru hard work, they'd rather just try and take what other people have built because that is easier in their mind.
But it's not a mentality without precedent. We have an entire population that for generations has been instructed to be dependent, first as slaves, then tenant farmers, throughout the Jim Crow era, then as adherents to the certain political forces. "Follow us and we'll take care of you" is what some people have been told for generations. That doesn't mean they are entitled to something for nothing but it's a mistake to ignore this history. And while it may have been more prevalent in black communities, it's not limited to them. I've encountered more poor whites with entitlement attitudes than poor blacks.

No. My point that educated working class people are not people who riot and burn things to the ground nor are they typically living off the government. People who tend to burn property and steal things are also usually not working class and usually live off the government regardless of the color of thier skin. To me people who try to justify the behavior and make it about race are a big part of the problem.
I would be very surprised if this is true. I would expect those looting in Ferguson are NOT on public support themselves. This is likely just one more string of violent criminal behavior in their lives, or misguided youth dragged along for the ride. I would expect someone that is on public support may be protesting but would be VERY careful not to be near violence for fear a criminal record would cause them to LOSE that support. I'm not even sure there's more violence in one population versus the other, just that one population has more EXTREME violence. Idiots rioting after sporting events or fighting in bars just don't make the news as often as people carrying guns.

This the USA. It IS the best country in the world. No matter how bad they think they got it. They are free men. They are NOT oppressed. Fergeson PD doesn't routinely organize themselves in riot gear. Remember the photo of the force? It's laughable that that the assembly of keystone cops could be oppressing anything.

This is all nothing but a bunch of thuggery because they don't like their plight. But it's not oppression.
While I believe the evidence supports Officer Wilson's actions, I think the Ferguson police department as proven they have a pretty strong vein of thuggery themselves. They had the riot shields up last night long before violence started. And I haven't heard a good reason for the previous episodes of them pointing guns at protesters.

Yes, if you plan on shooting someone and then not prosecuting the shooter, you're probably going to need that stuff.

Here are some quotes from people who understand life in Ferguson, rather than just bullet points from one incident:

"This is not about vandalizing..This is about fighting a police organization that doesn't care about the lives they serve."

"I support my people who are out there doing it...For years they've been taking from us. We don't care."

EDIT: I can't blame the people of Ferguson for using this opportunity to show the world what they're dealing with in police hostility.
Looting and violence show the world nothing worthwhile. The 'people of Ferguson' are more likely to be the peaceful protestors. Last I heard most of those arrested were not locals and were not peaceful.

People got really sympathetic to minority business owners in Ferguson, Missouri pretty quick.
I think people were sympathetic to local business from the first days of the riots. At least on this thread.

[Xville]

Yes, if you plan on shooting someone and then not prosecuting the shooter, you're probably going to need that stuff.

Here are some quotes from people who understand life in Ferguson, rather than just bullet points from one incident:

"This is not about vandalizing..This is about fighting a police organization that doesn't care about the lives they serve."


"I support my people who are out there doing it...For years they've been taking from us. We don't care."

EDIT: I can't blame the people of Ferguson for using this opportunity to show the world what they're dealing with in police hostility.

:shocked2::shocked2: Wow...the opinions of some people on here are downright scary. So if you don't get your way, go set crap on fire, steal, and destroy property. That is really showing them! Those horrible hostile cops just shooting people for looking at them.

[xu82]

I think we may be over-estimating the amoint of rational thought here. We seem to be watching a mix of emotion, gang mentality and opportunity. These are not the actions of deep thinkers.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I didnt even know this until today, seems relevant no?

"The small city of Jennings, Mo., had a police department so troubled, and with so much tension between white officers and black residents, that the city council finally decided to disband it. Everyone in the Jennings police department was fired. New officers were brought in to create a credible department from scratch.

That was three years ago. One of the officers who worked in that department, and lost his job along with everyone else, was a young man named Darren Wilson.

Some of the Jennings officers reapplied for their jobs, but Wilson got a job in the police department in the nearby city of Ferguson."

[bobbiemcgee]

Yeah, you really showed 'em:

Jobs lost.
Crime/Arsonists all over town.
Property values in the toilet.
People avoiding your stinking town at all costs.
Public opinion that you are total morons.
Investors scared to death to build.
Insurance rates thru the roof. Oh, that's right, it will be impossible to get any now.
Well done!

[GoMuskies]

Relevant to a discussion about race relations and the Ferguson PD? Probably.

Relevant to the case? No.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Relevant to a discussion about race relations and the Ferguson PD? Probably.

Relevant to the case? No.

We wont ever know because of course there is no trial. I think its fair to say that at the least we dont know as opposed to just saying no it it isnt.

[NY44]

Come on man. That's just bullshit. I am sure there were people out there who legitimately wanted to protest. But that is not at all what happened. I mean we all watched live stream video of people stealing bottles out of a liquor store last night. That's vandalization, that's destruction, that's ignorantly harming their own community. The owners of those stores and business didn't take anything form anyone and they sure as shit aren't the police.

I think there's a mis-communication here. Those are actual quotes from 2 men, Brien Redmon and Thomas Perry. Sourced from here (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/us/frustration-months-in-the-making-boils-over-on-the-streets-of-ferguson.html?_r=0)

[D-West & PO-Z]

Just for the record, not that its that important what I think, but I dont necessarily think the officer was guilty but I think there was enough (from what I have read, heard etc which I know isnt everything) there to go to a trial where the whole case could have been heard and played out.

[NY44]

This the USA. It IS the best country in the world.

In what regard?

[OH.X.MI]

I think there's a mis-communication here. Those are actual quotes from 2 men, Brien Redmon and Thomas Perry. Sourced from here (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/us/frustration-months-in-the-making-boils-over-on-the-streets-of-ferguson.html?_r=0)

I realize those were not your quotes. But you were saying that you understood their sentiments. I do not understand those sentiments. And quite frankly I cannot comprehend how anyone would support or emphasize with their "logic."

[waggy]

In what regard?

The simple basic freedoms that the constitution protects.

Except your pursuit of happiness can't include robbing convenience stores.

[waggy]

This is an aside but I recently read some people how they were impressed with the health worker "volunteers" that Cuba sent to Africa to help in the fight against ebola. Of course those socialist sympathizers fail to realize that those Cuban workers aren't really free.

[NY44]

I realize those were not your quotes. But you were saying that you understood their sentiments. I do not understand those sentiments. And quite frankly I cannot comprehend how anyone would support or emphasize with their "logic."

No, actually, I don't understand their sentiments. I have absolutely no clue what their lives are like, but I'm not willing to say I understand and that they're wrong.

[LadyMuskie]

Yes, if you plan on shooting someone and then not prosecuting the shooter, you're probably going to need that stuff.

Here are some quotes from people who understand life in Ferguson, rather than just bullet points from one incident:

"This is not about vandalizing..This is about fighting a police organization that doesn't care about the lives they serve."

"I support my people who are out there doing it...For years they've been taking from us. We don't care."

EDIT: I can't blame the people of Ferguson for using this opportunity to show the world what they're dealing with in police hostility.


No, actually, I don't understand their sentiments. I have absolutely no clue what their lives are like, but I'm not willing to say I understand and that they're wrong.

Maybe your sentiments aren't that you support the rioting, but what you wrote and how you wrote it, certainly makes it seem that you support and believe that the looting and rioting is acceptable and even a good idea.

[blobfan]

No, actually, I don't understand their sentiments. I have absolutely no clue what their lives are like, but I'm not willing to say I understand and that they're wrong.
Given your previous statement, can you understand where we may have come to the conclusion that you do support he looting?

Yes, if you plan on shooting someone and then not prosecuting the shooter, you're probably going to need that stuff.

Here are some quotes from people who understand life in Ferguson, rather than just bullet points from one incident:

"This is not about vandalizing..This is about fighting a police organization that doesn't care about the lives they serve."

"I support my people who are out there doing it...For years they've been taking from us. We don't care."

EDIT: I can't blame the people of Ferguson for using this opportunity to show the world what they're dealing with in police hostility.

And when in America is looting and violence ok?

[waggy]

There are lots of examples of real slums in the world. Nothing in the US comes anywhere close to what you'll find elsewhere.

If you're homeless I think I can understand hating life no matter where you are. But if you've got a roof over your head in this country you're probably in the top 5% worldwide.

[NY44]

Maybe your sentiments aren't that you support the rioting, but what you wrote and how you wrote it, certainly makes it seem that you support and believe that the looting and rioting is acceptable and even a good idea.

"I can't blame.." I don't see that as an endorsement, but I understand how it could have been taken that way.

[SemajParlor]

For the record I clearly have a lot of different opinions than some on here - but I stick by and maintain that looting and violence is obviously not ok or the right course of action.

[xu82]

For the record I clearly have a lot of different opinions than some on here - but I stick by and maintain that looting and violence is obviously not ok or the right course of action.

Well, there's the bottom line.

(Does this thread end now?)

[SemajParlor]

Who does Xavier play after SD?

[GoMuskies]

Who does Xavier play after SD?

It's possible that game #2 will be against the biggest rioters of them all: the Princeton Tigers.

[Juice]

I would agree. The only difference is that working class educated people, regardless of race, do not burn and damage property and then collect government handouts. Most of these people looting could give two shits about Mike Brown. They would shoot him themselves if they could get something out of it.

Spend some time on West Virginia's campus after loss during the football season

[X-band '01]

Spend some time on West Virginia's campus after loss during the football season

Why stop there? They'll riot either way after Pitt or Virginia Tech if they're on the schedule.

And you know it's almost time for Buckeye fans to get their annual riot in during Michigan week.

[xu82]

Spend some time on West Virginia's campus after loss during the football season

I find it amusing that you chose WV as your choice for educated people, but I get your point. People will wreck a city after winning a Super Bowl. WTF? I doubt the chief of staff from the local hospital is leading the charge though. I think it's safe to say there are some generalities that most people would concede.

[DC Muskie]

Being dead doesn't absolve one of one's crimes. Michael Brown was not a saint. He wasn't a "good kid".

Here's a reality check, none of us are saints. That's a pretty high standard only a select few are capable of achieving.

[DC Muskie]

Mike Brown must be a huge pussy, because he laid two huge blows to Wilson's face and didn't even leave a bruise.

Softball was played in the grand jury room. Wilson got to hit homerun after homerun because no one challenged him at all. And there are many people who see this as "Well case closed.' Just like the prosecutor wanted from the beginning. Well done Bobby!

[XUFan09]

I find it amusing that you chose WV as your choice for educated people, but I get your point. People will wreck a city after winning a Super Bowl. WTF? I doubt the chief of staff from the local hospital is leading the charge though. I think it's safe to say there are some generalities that most people would concede.

Lol I like making fun of WV students, having lived in Morgantown, but they actualy are fairly ordinary in terms of intelligence (compared to other college students).

[D-West & PO-Z]

Dont know if anyone is facebook friends with Brandon Cole but he is pissed, basically promoting violence against all police.

[xu82]

Dont know if anyone is facebook friends with Brandon Cole but he is pissed, basically promoting violence against all police.

THAT Brandon Cole? Ugh, that is a rather bad thing to be promoting. And he had such soft hands...

[D-West & PO-Z]

THAT Brandon Cole? Ugh, that is a rather bad thing to be promoting. And he had such soft hands...

Yes that Cole, and I shouldnt say basically, he is advocating for it.

[GoMuskies]

Dont know if anyone is facebook friends with Brandon Cole but he is pissed, basically promoting violence against all police.

Well then our Mr. Cole is an idiot.

[DC Muskie]

Well then our Mr. Cole is an idiot.

Yes. And being what, 30 years old now, makes him an idiot times two.

[XU 87]

Here's a reality check, none of us are saints. That's a pretty high standard only a select few are capable of achieving.

While I agree with you that none of us are saints, I can also represent to you that I have 1) never tried to steal a cop's gun 2) have never been shot at while trying to steal a cop's gun (or shot at for any other reason) and 3) have never bull rushed a cop after trying to steal his gun or otherwise.

Sometimes when people engage in really bad behavior they suffer bad consequences. And some people behave better than others.

[DC Muskie]

While I agree with you, I can also represent to you that I have 1) never tried to steal a cop's gun 2) have never been shot at while trying to steal a cop's gun (or shot at for any other reason) and 3) have never bull rushed a cop after trying to steal his gun or otherwise.

Sometimes when people engage in really bad behavior they suffer bad consequences.

Congrats I expect you to make it to beautified status and go no further!

[XU 87]

Congrats I expect you to make it to beautified status and go no further!

How do you know what I look like? We've never met.

[DC Muskie]

How do you know what I look like? We've never met.

Come on, I'm confident you are so beautified.

[XU 87]

Come on, I'm confident you are so beautified.

My mom tells me I was a really cute baby.

[XU 87]

I like this article:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2014/11/25/opinion-waste-lessons-ferguson/70089612/

[xu82]

My mom tells me I was a really cute baby.

Moms lie about that stuff. I know.

[xu82]

I like this article:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2014/11/25/opinion-waste-lessons-ferguson/70089612/

Very good article. Pointing the finger sometimes has to be done into the mirror.too. This won't get better until people get realistic. I didn't realize until today how big M. Brown was - 6'5" and 280 lbs? That must have been a nasty struggle with guns being fired. I'd want no part of round 2.

[vee4xu]

One young man is dead. Another young man's life is indelibly changed. Two families will never again fully have their sons with them. On literally, the other figuratively. Yet, some insist that violent, destructive behavior is the way to address the matter. Instead of trying to figure out if laws should be changed, behaviors should be changed, cooperation instead of confrontation. There are ways to sit down and constructively channel the unimaginable sorrow that these families have into ways to keep other families from having to deal with it at some future date. Until this kind of thinking supplants terrorizing neighborhoods, lighting fires, destroying property and harboring hatred, then there will be more killing and more hatred. May sound trite, simplistic and idealistic, but dammit, I believe it/s true.

So, as my signature suggests, I will as I have done for many years now, pray my rosary with the idea of love trumping hatred. It's a tall order, but someone has to start somewhere.

[GoMuskies]

I will as I have done for many years now, pray my rosary with the idea of love trumping hatred.

Well, that works fine for you until some asshole in Wichita starts popping off about the Browns' hearbreaking losses or the fact that Ohio State isn't as good as TCU. :)

[xu82]

Well, that works fine for you until some asshole in Wichita starts popping off about the Browns' hearbreaking losses or the fact that Ohio State isn't as good as TCU. :)

Well, THAT guy would clearly deserve whatever he got!

[DC Muskie]

Very good article. Pointing the finger sometimes has to be done into the mirror.too. This won't get better until people get realistic. I didn't realize until today how big M. Brown was - 6'5" and 280 lbs? That must have been a nasty struggle with guns being fired. I'd want no part of round 2.

I really don't understand why there are people who keep bringing up the black and black crime stat. Was Brown killing a black man and then Wilson had to kill him? It's really classic deflection which just perpetuates the idea that we need to point fingers. Instead of seeking transparency and justice in this one case, we have now decided it's good to complicate the issue. And when some do that, they take a victory lap for simply making a point that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

[XU 87]

I really don't understand why there are people who keep bringing up the black and black crime stat. Was Brown killing a black man and then Wilson had to kill him? It's really classic deflection which just perpetuates the idea that we need to point fingers. Instead of seeking transparency and justice in this one case, we have now decided it's good to complicate the issue. And when some do that, they take a victory lap for simply making a point that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Earl Banks, the black man who wrote the article I posted, disagrees with you. Instead of being focused on a virtually non-existent problem, white racist cops killing young black males for no reason, we should focus on real problems, like young black males killing other young black males and other black on black crime.

[vee4xu]

Well, that works fine for you until some asshole in Wichita starts popping off about the Browns' hearbreaking losses or the fact that Ohio State isn't as good as TCU. :)

It takes two assholes to tango, Go. Including one from Ohio. I am going to pray for the asshole in Ohio. He needs ALOT of help.

Happy Thanksgiving, friend.

[NY44]

Earl Banks, the black man who wrote the article I posted, disagrees with you. Instead of being focused on a virtually non-existent problem, white racist cops killing young black males for no reason, we should focus on real problems, like young black males killing other young black males and other black on black crime.

I'm not sure where DC is going with this, but a huge part of this which hasn't been discussed enough is how terribly the Ferguson government and police department has handled this.

I'm not sure if their handling of the incident and aftermath was malicious, racist or just purely incompetent, but they're reaping what they've sown. This is now just as much about lost trust in a government* as it is about what exactly led to Michael Brown's death.

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I really don't understand why there are people who keep bringing up the black and black crime stat. Was Brown killing a black man and then Wilson had to kill him? It's really classic deflection which just perpetuates the idea that we need to point fingers. Instead of seeking transparency and justice in this one case, we have now decided it's good to complicate the issue. And when some do that, they take a victory lap for simply making a point that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

No, I was commenting on the article. While others may have brought up some facts regarding crime statistics (which are interesting and relevant), I did not. I merely pointed out that you have to look both outside and within. Notice I said "pointing the finger sometimes has to be done into the mirror TOO". Some people maybe just assume it's always an unfounded attack. I'm all for transparency and justice. I'm all against foolish violence that accomplishes NOTHING POSITIVE. I think my point was fair, valid and balanced. There's far too little balance here. That's the problem. And I made zero mention of race. What were you referring to?