Wooden Legacy bracket revealed

[BMoreX]

Xavier will take on San Diego in the opening round. A win and they will face Princeton/UTEP.

Bracket: http://espn.go.com/pdf/2014/0804/ncb_woodenlegacy.pdf
Eamonn Brennan's write-up: http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/99722/bracket-reveal-wooden-legacy-2

Game at 4:30 on Thanksgiving...cutting into my football/nap time.

[Xville]

what a garbage field....however, i think this will be good experience for this team since we have a ton of new faces who are going to have to learn how to play together.

[GoMuskies]

what a garbage field

Yup, gives us a chance to win, but given our recent history in these things we'd be better off playing Kentucky, Arizona and Duke in one of these things. Seems like we're going to lose no matter who we play, so may as well get the SoS bump.

[xubrew]

Most of the teams aren't good, but they're good enough to beat us if we dismiss them as garbage. UTEP is actually decent. Long Beach is good by Big West standards, which makes them....well I don't know exactly what that makes they by other standards. Western Michigan should have been good, but they've had a shitty summer.

[Xville]

Most of the teams aren't good, but they're good enough to beat us if we dismiss them as garbage. UTEP is actually decent. Long Beach is good by Big West standards, which makes them....well I don't know exactly, but other standards. Western Michigan should have been good, but they've had a shitty summer.

all true.....what I meant by garbage was more about the names on the front of the jersey than their actual talent level.

[GoMuskies]

Most of the teams aren't good, but they're good enough to beat us if we dismiss them as garbage. UTEP is actually decent. Long Beach is good by Big West standards, which makes them....well I don't know exactly, but other standards. Western Michigan should have been good, but they've had a shitty summer.

This is a bit like trying to justify the strength of the CBI field at the end of any given year.

[xubrew]

This is a bit like trying to justify the strength of the CBI field at the end of any given year.

UTEP is a little above that. I hate the Gazelle Group. Any team that is willing to pay them is "strong" enough to be in it. Not even I want to watch that garbage. This is more of a CIT type of field, which I like, but still won't argue that it's a strong field.

All I'm saying is that San Diego, or Long Beach, or UTEP, or maybe even Western Michigan (albeit it's not looking that way) are good enough to beat teams that overlook them.

[PMI]

UTEP is a little above that. I hate the Gazelle Group. Any team that is willing to pay them is "strong" enough to be in it.

All I'm saying is that San Diego, or Long Beach, or UTEP, or maybe even Western Michigan (albeit it's not looking that way) are good enough to beat teams that overlook them.

I don't think Stainbrook will be overlooking Western Michigan, so much as he'll be licking his chops if we face the Broncos.

It is a shitty field by early season tournament standards, but we've lost to some pretty unimpressive teams in these things in the recent past. Nothing less than a sweep will be OK in my mind, but who knows what we will look like that early on.

[bleedXblue]

UTEP is a little above that. I hate the Gazelle Group. Any team that is willing to pay them is "strong" enough to be in it. Not even I want to watch that garbage. This is more of a CIT type of field, which I like, but still won't argue that it's a strong field.

All I'm saying is that San Diego, or Long Beach, or UTEP, or maybe even Western Michigan (albeit it's not looking that way) are good enough to beat teams that overlook them.

Yes, isn't San Diego coached by Steve Fischer (old Michigan coach)

Also, this time of year anything can happen. This years team is a mishmash of talent and experience.

[PMI]

Yes, isn't San Diego coached by Steve Fischer (old Michigan coach)

Also, this time of year anything can happen. This years team is a mishmash of talent and experience.

That's San Diego State, which is an awesome program.

[GoMuskies]

Yes, isn't San Diego coached by Steve Fischer (old Michigan coach)


No, that's San Diego State, and they've been awesome of late. San Diego is less awesome.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

That's San Diego State, which is an awesome program.

I was just going to ask this...is that SD or SDSU. SD is that really tough academic school right?

[PMI]

I was just going to ask this...is that SD or SDSU. SD is that really tough academic school right?

I think so. I think it's Jesuit or some sect of Catholicism.

[Muskied]

I was just going to ask this...is that SD or SDSU. SD is that really tough academic school right?

I'm pretty sure The Germans founded the school in 1904, and they called it “San Diego”, which in German means “whale's vagina”.

[xubrew]

San Diego is in the WCC with Gonzaga, Saint Mary's, BYU and Company. San Diego State is the team Steve Fischer coaches. San Diego actually almost beat San Diego State last year. If I recall correctly they had a chance to win it at the buzzer. At the time USD was actually looking really good. They also almost beat New Mexico, who was another ranked team, in the previous game, and that was at The Pit. Things kind of fell apart after that, but for a few weeks in later November/early December, it really looked like they had something and would be a force in the WCC.

The thing about them is that they have virtually their entire team back, and the potential is there for them to be much improved. That doesn't mean they will be, but I still stand by my belief that they're good enough to beat a good team who overlooks them.

[muskiefan82]

I hope X can really use the Brazil experience to get ahead of the curve this year.

[kyxu]

University of San Diego, not to be confused with San Diego State University or UC-San Diego.

[LA Muskie]

I was just going to ask this...is that SD or SDSU. SD is that really tough academic school right?
No, that's UC San Diego (http://ucsd.edu). The University of San Diego (http://www.sandiego.edu) is a Jesuit liberal arts school in much the same vein as Xavier.

[GoMuskies]

So, let me see if I have this right: ArizonaXUGrad asks if San Diego is a really good academic school, and LA Muskie responds that no, it's more like Xavier. Is that right? :smile:

[Kahns Krazy]

It's an elite institution...

[GoMuskies]

It's an elite institution...

Ah, so it's more like the University of Delaware.

[LA Muskie]

So, let me see if I have this right: ArizonaXUGrad asks if San Diego is a really good academic school, and LA Muskie responds that no, it's more like Xavier. Is that right? :smile:
Yes. That is correct. I love my alma mater. But I don't think we are an elite academic institution. Yet.

[GoMuskies]

Yes. That is correct. I love my alma mater. But I don't think we are an elite academic institution. Yet.

What your view on Miami (OH)?

[LA Muskie]

What your view on Miami (OH)?

I would not put it in "elite" status, but it certainly has a higher national profile, a broader curriculum, and a longer history of academic achievement.

[xubrew]

This tournament continues to digress in quality.....

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24679690/four-star-chris-sandifer-doesnt-qualify-at-utep-will-enroll-in-jc

[bleedXblue]

This tournament continues to digress in quality.....

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24679690/four-star-chris-sandifer-doesnt-qualify-at-utep-will-enroll-in-jc

I just want to win the damn thing.

[xubrew]

I just want to win the damn thing.

The way it's going, we better win it. It's gone from a collection of teams that looked to be decent to just a hodgepodge group of teams.

[ammtd34]

This tournament continues to digress in quality.....

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24679690/four-star-chris-sandifer-doesnt-qualify-at-utep-will-enroll-in-jc

Ouch. Isn't Chipola where high level recruits go never to be heard from again?

[PMI]

Yea, let's just call a spade a spade. This tournament sucks and it will hurt our resume if we don't sweep it, and might even hurt a little if we do. I'd rather bite off more than we can chew with our young team and play a difficult tournament or neutral game against a power than mess with this thing.

[bleedXblue]

Yea, let's just call a spade a spade. This tournament sucks and it will hurt our resume if we don't sweep it, and might even hurt a little if we do. I'd rather bite off more than we can chew with our young team and play a difficult tournament or neutral game against a power than mess with this thing.

I don't have any issue with playing in this. Last year what shat the bed against some decent teams and it really set the table for a difficult and disappointing year. Nothing wrong in going out there, gaining some early season confidence and winning.

[xubrew]

I don't have any issue with playing in this. Last year what shat the bed against some decent teams and it really set the table for a difficult and disappointing year. Nothing wrong in going out there, gaining some early season confidence and winning.

I think the only game that really killed us in the tournament last year was the loss to USC. Tennessee and Iowa were missed opportunities at good wins, but I don't think they were damaging in and of themselves. Outside of USC, the potential rewards of last year's tournament outweighed the risk

The Wooden is shaping up to be nothing but blah. UTEP may still be okay, but this does hurt them. Actually, San Diego, who we play first, may be one of the better teams remaining in it. That's assuming they don't lose any key players between now and then, which is assuming a lot the way it's been going.

[PMI]

I don't have any issue with playing in this. Last year what shat the bed against some decent teams and it really set the table for a difficult and disappointing year. Nothing wrong in going out there, gaining some early season confidence and winning.

The problem with that though is that we cannot afford another shitting of the bed. A loss in this tournament turns it into a major net loss for our resume, and with a very young and new team, that doesn't leave a ton of wiggle room. Even if we win them all, it doesn't do much for our resume. Perhaps we will gain some kind of good experience down there, but from a resume standpoint, it's not a great risk/reward.

[MADXSTER]

The problem with that though is that we cannot afford another shitting of the bed. A loss in this tournament turns it into a major net loss for our resume, and with a very young and new team, that doesn't leave a ton of wiggle room. Even if we win them all, it doesn't do much for our resume. Perhaps we will gain some kind of good experience down there, but from a resume standpoint, it's not a great risk/reward.

Though I understand your thought process, this kind of scheduling didn't hurt UC the last couple of years. Just sayin

[xubrew]

Though I understand your thought process, this kind of scheduling didn't hurt UC the last couple of years. Just sayin

I think that it did. It sure as hell didn't help them.

They ended up with a #5 seed last year despite being ranked in the top ten for much of the year, and they had to play a good Harvard team that beat them. The year before that, they were a #10 seed. If a team is capable of beating better teams than the majority of the ones that they play, then they do hurt themselves and sell themselves short.

[bleedXblue]

I think that it did. It sure as hell didn't help them.

They ended up with a #5 seed last year despite being ranked in the top ten for much of the year, and they had to play a good Harvard team that beat them. The year before that, they were a #10 seed. If a team is capable of beating better teams than the majority of the ones that they play, then they do hurt themselves and sell themselves short.


Come on. You seriously can't compare the two. UC played their first 7-8 games against complete dung. They also played some pretty bad teams in CUSA.

A 3 game preseason tourney doesn't equal that.

Add to all of that UC had a very experienced team returning last year. Another reason why UC fans should have been pissed at Cronin for scheduling that mess.

Xavier has 7 new players this year with a lot of question marks. They need some early season help to bring these guys along.

[xubrew]

Come on. You seriously can't compare the two. UC played their first 7-8 games against complete dung. They also played some pretty bad teams in CUSA.

A 3 game preseason tourney doesn't equal that.

Add to all of that UC had a very experienced team returning last year. Another reason why UC fans should have been pissed at Cronin for scheduling that mess.

Xavier has 7 new players this year with a lot of question marks. They need some early season help to bring these guys along.

I'm not comparing the two. You're seeing things.

When the field was first announced, I actually said that I liked a lot of the teams that were in it. That was before several of them fell apart. Hell, even in this very thread I said that I didn't think most of the teams sucked.

I'm disagreeing with the notion that UC's weak schedule didn't hurt them. I think that it did.

[Milhouse]

Can't fault UC for their schedule this year though.

As a season ticket holder I'd much rather have their OOC than ours. And I hate saying that.

[casualfan]

One of these days we'll be able to have a thread about our team without it becoming a dick measuring contest with UC.

One of these days...

[bleedXblue]

One of these days we'll be able to have a thread about our team without it becoming a dick measuring contest with UC.

One of these days...

Agreed.......my point is that UC's been scheduling a horrible non-conference for years. Last year I want to say they played 5 teams with RPI's over 250. So those that started this nonsense are just way off base. Our OOC is fine this year.

[casualfan]

Agreed.......my point is that UC's been scheduling a horrible non-conference for years. Last year I want to say they played 5 teams with RPI's over 250. So those that started this nonsense are just way off base. Our OOC is fine this year.

And my point is what does that have to do with our schedule?

It's painful to watch people embody the little brother mentality we've spent so many years fighting. Just about every thread on here comes back to UC in some way shape or form.

I thought we were past using them as a benchmark for everything we do, but I guess not.

Since we're using their schedule last year as a benchmark though we might as well come at it from both sides. They played 6 tourney teams OOC last year. One on the road and one at a neutral site.

Do you see 6 tournament teams on this list? (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/xavi/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2014-15/schedule/schedule.pdf)

You can't talk about the bad on someone's schedule and not include the good. You can't say "well, we're not playing as many bad teams" without considering how many good teams we're playing.

[xubrew]

Okay then,

Did LOUISVILLE'S schedule hurt them last year?? They were pretty pissed about getting a #4 seed despite being ranked #5 overall (or whatever it was). They ended up having to sweat out a pretty good Manhattan team in the round of 64.

What about SMU?? They were a ranked team for much of the year as well, and they didn't even get in.


All last year, people were complaining about how UC had an advantage because of their weak schedule. Well, maybe it gave them an advantage when it came to shooting up the rankings, but at the end of the day I think it hurt them more than it helped them. Same with Louisville. Same with SMU.

What's wrong with using UC as an example when you're discussing scheduling philosophies?? I don't think it means you're obsessed with them.

[MADXSTER]

It's painful to watch people embody the little brother mentality we've spent so many years fighting.

My take was more that UC is the little brother since they have scheduled soo weak for the last several years.

[bleedXblue]

My take was more that UC is the little brother since they have scheduled soo weak for the last several years.

Exactly. Not sure how he read it any other way?????????????

[Kahns Krazy]

One of these days we'll be able to have a thread about our team without it becoming a dick measuring contest with UC.

One of these days...

Is it possible that it comes up most often because they are the team outside of our conference that the most people on the board can use as a frame of reference? How useful would it be to say "Well scheduling really didn't hurt Akron last year, did it". Comparisons are helpful. That doesn't make it a dick measuring contest.

[casualfan]

This is the part where I bow out of the conversation. I've said my piece and stick to the point(s) I made.

[PMI]

And my point is what does that have to do with our schedule?

It's painful to watch people embody the little brother mentality we've spent so many years fighting. Just about every thread on here comes back to UC in some way shape or form.

I thought we were past using them as a benchmark for everything we do, but I guess not.

Since we're using their schedule last year as a benchmark though we might as well come at it from both sides. They played 6 tourney teams OOC last year. One on the road and one at a neutral site.

Do you see 6 tournament teams on this list? (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/xavi/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2014-15/schedule/schedule.pdf)

You can't talk about the bad on someone's schedule and not include the good. You can't say "well, we're not playing as many bad teams" without considering how many good teams we're playing.

If you go to a Duke board, I'll bet you'll see the same shots taken at UNC. It has nothing to do with a little brother mentality. People take shots at them because they are our rival. Look no further than Mick Cronin for proof that they hate us every bit as much as we hate them. If you're sensitive to shots taken at our biggest rival, perhaps being a sports fantastic is not your true calling.

[casualfan]

If you go to a Duke board, I'll bet you'll see the same shots taken at UNC. It has nothing to do with a little brother mentality. People take shots at them because they are our rival. Look no further than Mick Cronin for proof that they hate us every bit as much as we hate them. If you're sensitive to shots taken at our biggest rival, perhaps being a sports fantastic is not your true calling.

EDIT: Said I'm bowing out and I am. Have a nice weekend.

[xubrew]

Okay, bringing it back around, I do not think there is much to be gained by scheduling weak. I don't think scheduling weak helped UC, or anyone else. I liked the tournament a lot better before multiple teams went through setbacks.

Having said that, we need wins away from home. It seems as though the committee favors that more and more. It's almost to the point that it doesn't matter who you beat so long as you beat them away from home, and that they disregard what teams do at home. So, this should be three wins away from home, which we may end up getting more credit for than what we probably deserve (at least if the committee continues to select teams the way they have the past few years, ESPECIALLY last year).

[waggy]

I don't think these tournaments always have to be about SOS/resume building.

[PMI]

I don't think these tournaments always have to be about SOS/resume building.

I agree with you to an extent. I do think there's something that can be gained with a new team coming together and playing in a tournament setting in a neutral venue. But to me, that experience (which obviously cannot be tangibly measured) does not weigh up to the high risk/low reward that factors into our resume, which at the end of the day is the most important aspect of our season. When it comes down to it, the goal is to get to the tournament with the best seed we can get to give ourselves a chance at making a good run. If you go back and look at a lot of our recent seasons, the years where we do well and especially win early season tournaments with good teams in them are the years we have gotten our best seeds. The years where we have struggled in them, or lose a game(s) to bad teams, our resume hasn't been nearly as good. This tournament gives us three games against teams that will not help our resume. If we win them all, it doesn't really help. If we lose even one, it really hurts. While the tournament may well prove to be a good experience for our team grow, if we have a slip up, which is very possible with our inexperience, it will hurt our resume. Maybe even dramatically hurt it. My personal philosophy with the early season tournaments is go big or stay home.

[waggy]

I understand that SOS plays into seeding PMI. No dispute from me there. And it's definitely an important factor as it relates to simply getting into the tournament. So you have to play some good teams, and the more the better frankly. I do think that seeding gets overstated though. I don't think the committee always does a great job, and match-ups are huge. So at the end of the day you can do everything right, and you still lose in round 1 for any number of reasons. But I was speaking more to the idea that this is a tournament over a holiday. I understand it's serious business, but it's also a game, in which they're supposed to have some fun. It's a lot more fun to win for sure, but there will also be lots of other opportunities to win games against quality opponents throughout the season. And how the BE conference members perform OOC collectively, and how X performs in conference, is much more important to X's resume than how the seasons of these 8 teams ultimately play out.

I don't have a problem with the tournament. It may not look ideal right now, but it may actually turn that it is.