Andy Kennedy Proposed "New" Idea about fouls (though it's not new)

[Muskie]

Link (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/28/ole-miss-head-coach-andy-kennedy-proposes-rule-change-that-would-keep-players-on-the-court/)

Kennedy says a fifth foul should not result in a player’s ejection. Instead, let the player stay in the game and foul as much as he wants. But every foul after five would give two free throws – and the ball – to the other team.

[XU 87]

Interesting idea. I question the wisdom of a player getting ejected for too many fouls. Football players don't get thrown out of the game if they commit too many penalties. Same with hockey.

[danaandvictory]

I think there should be a punishment for accumulation of fouls - and attacking and getting a key opponent in foul trouble is an integral part of game strategy. That being said, it puts a ton of pressure on the referees.

Here's a total spitball of an alternative - give every player three fouls per half. Slate is wiped at the break, but if you get whistled for that third foul, you're done for the period. If the game goes to OT, players get two more fouls for the remainder of the game regardless how long it goes.

[XU 87]

I think there should be a punishment for accumulation of fouls - and attacking and getting a key opponent in foul trouble is an integral part of game strategy.

You make valid points.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure you want to fundamentally alter a game as mature as basketball.

[Muskie]

That's basically Kennedy's point. There's already a reluctance by referees to call fouls on stars. I believe Andy's "new" proposal would actually make it worse.

[xubrew]

Didn't the CBA (aka, the league that Isaiah Thomas put out of business) have that rule?? There were no foul outs, but the sixth foul was a technical foul.

I think foul outs are just part of the game as we know it. Kind of like how a player cannot reenter the game in baseball. You could change that rule, but it would change a major part of the game as we know it. So, what's the point after a hundred years of the rule being what it is??

[XU 87]

Didn't the CBA (aka, the league that Isaiah Thomas put out of business) have that rule?? There were no foul outs, but the sixth foul was a technical foul.

I think foul outs are just part of the game as we know it. Kind of like how a player cannot reenter the game in baseball. You could change that rule, but it would change a major part of the game as we know it. So, what's the point after a hundred years of the rule being what it is??

I think adding the three point line in 1987 was a major change. I think that was a good change.

I think adding the DH in 1974ish was a major change, although we could argue whether that was a good or bad change.

I think interleague baseball was a major change, albeit not a rule change.

But sometimes change can add to the game.

That said, what has Isaiah Thomas succeeded in since retiring from the NBA?

[X-band '01]

In one way, that rule already exists. But that's only if you're down to 5 players. (at least in the NBA - this happened between the Lakers and the Cavs in Cleveland this season)

You can't have 5-on-4, but any foul by a player who should have been DQ'd would result in a technical assessed against the team plus the regular free throws. I don't know what the NCAA does in that kind of scenario

[xubrew]

I think adding the three point line in 1987 was a major change. I think that was a good change.

I think adding the DH in 1974ish was a major change, although we could argue whether that was a good or bad change.

I think interleague baseball was a major change, albeit not a rule change.

But sometimes change can add to the game.

That said, what has Isaiah Thomas succeeded in since retiring from the NBA?

The 3pt line was definitely a major change. As was the shot clock.

I'm sure if the rule was changed about fouling out, a sense of normalcy would quickly develop as it did with the shot clock and three point line. Right now, though, I just can't imagine liking a change where strategically trying to get players into foul trouble to either get them on the bench or out of the game entirely is something I'll like. I've just always considered it part of the game, and part of the overall strategy of the game.

[nuts4xu]

In one way, that rule already exists. But that's only if you're down to 5 players. (at least in the NBA - this happened between the Lakers and the Cavs in Cleveland this season)

You can't have 5-on-4, but any foul by a player who should have been DQ'd would result in a technical assessed against the team plus the regular free throws. I don't know what the NCAA does in that kind of scenario

I think the NCAA makes a team play with 4 players. There are a few stories from our elder statesmen of Xavier playing games with only 4 players due to foul outs. I am not sure if this has changed, I believe this is still the rule.

[XU 87]

As was the shot clock.



That was probably the best change made- no more stalling with a 7 point lead and 4 minutes to go in the game. The worst was when teams would stall in the first half (see UC v. Kentucky in 1983, although the UK fans were so mad about that it made it kind of funny).

[xubrew]

That was probably the best change made- no more stalling with a 7 point lead and 4 minutes to go in the game. The worst was when teams would stall in the first half (see UC v. Kentucky in 1983, although the UK fans were so mad about that it made it kind of funny).

They're still mad about that, BTW. They said they'd never schedule them again, and to date, they haven't.

[GoMuskies]

They're still mad about that, BTW. They said they'd never schedule them again, and to date, they haven't.

4th column, first row

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/index.cgi?month=11&day=28&year=1990

[xeus]

Andy Kennedy should concentrate on recruiting and not do too much "thinking".

[xubrew]

4th column, first row

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/index.cgi?month=11&day=28&year=1990

Hmmm. Can't say I remember that one. I guess they have played during the season since then. After looking it up, they've played a few other times as well.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/Cincinnati.html

This is what I get for listening to UK fans. They say the reason they don't play Cincinnati is because of the 24-11 game where UC held the ball. The fans claimed that had not played since, and won't ever play them again. I thought when they met in the tournament a few years back it was the first time they'd played since then, but I guess not.

[X-band '01]

I also suggest people not look at the bottom left-hand corner on that scorepage from 1990.

[GoMuskies]

I also suggest people not look at the bottom left-hand corner on that scorepage from 1990.

That Ball State team was pretty damned good, though.

Actually, I was thinking of the prior year's Ball State team that lost to UNLV in the Sweet Sixteen. The Ball State team that beat Xavier was pretty average.

[X-band '01]

That Ball State team got there by taking out Oregon State (with Gary Payton) and Louisville. That was also a good run on their end.

Don't remember if they got to the NCAAs in 1990-91, but that was the year Xavier knocked out Nebraska in the NCAAs. All in all, not too shabby in the end.

[XU 87]

Hmmm. Can't say I remember that one. I guess they have played during the season since then. After looking it up, they've played a few other times as well.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/Cincinnati.html

This is what I get for listening to UK fans. They say the reason they don't play Cincinnati is because of the 24-11 game where UC held the ball. The fans claimed that had not played since, and won't ever play them again. I thought when they met in the tournament a few years back it was the first time they'd played since then, but I guess not.

I was at the 24-11 game and was surrounded by UK fans. It was unbelievable how much they bitched. But I guess if I drove 2- 4 hours and had to watch the other team stall all game, I'd be a little pissed too.

I know a player who played for UC in that game. He said Yates told them right before the game to stall. Yates didn't mention his plan until game time. He said the team was stunned.

[GoMuskies]

Apparently when they met the very next year in the UKIT (Kentucky's horrible old four-team invitational tournament) at Rupp, UC won the opening tipoff and went into the four-corners on the first possession just to eff with UK's fans. The UK fans started throwing things on the court.

[xubrew]

Apparently when they met the very next year in the UKIT (Kentucky's horrible old four-team invitational tournament) at Rupp, UC won the opening tipoff and went into the four-corners on the first possession just to eff with UK's fans. The UK fans started throwing things on the court.

Oh my God I hope that's true.

[RoseyMuskie]

I think once the team hits a certain number, the opposing team should get free throws and the ball. One media outlet performed a study, and I believe the last minute of NCAA games averaged six minutes. My biggest complaint about basketball is the sheer number of fouls at the end (many unnecessary). Coaches have no grasp on when to call off the dogs.

[xubrew]

I think once the team hits a certain number, the opposing team should get free throws and the ball. One media outlet performed a study, and I believe the last minute of NCAA games averaged six minutes. My biggest complaint about basketball is the sheer number of fouls at the end (many unnecessary). Coaches have no grasp on when to call off the dogs.

I think I like that idea. That's brilliant! If a team has fifteen fouls (or however many), then the other team gets two shots and the ball at that point. I would only impliment for the last two minutes. I like it though. The end of the game foul parade is unbearable. This would certainly stop it.

[RoseyMuskie]

I think I like that idea. That's brilliant! If a team has fifteen fouls (or however many), then the other team gets two shots and the ball at that point. I would only impliment for the last two minutes. I like it though. The end of the game foul parade is unbearable. This would certainly stop it.

15 was the mark I was thinking. Last two minutes work for me as well. Let's get in front of the rules committee!