Then there's this from dayton

[vee4xu]

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on-college-basketball/24568025/daytons-elite-eight-run-cost-the-city-nearly-60k-in-taxes

[muskienick]

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on-college-basketball/24568025/daytons-elite-eight-run-cost-the-city-nearly-60k-in-taxes

Well, since it only happens up there about once every 60 or more years, they should be able to afford it.

[XUGRAD80]

Well, since it only happens up there about once every 60 or more years, they should be able to afford it.

Yes, but next year when it DOESN'T happen again, they will be rioting because they are disappointed.....I mean, what else is there to do in Dayton?

[Kahns Krazy]

"and a media representative was hit in the face by a thrown can of beer".

This is so not newsworthy.

[xubrew]

If there is an electrical fire at someone's home, is the amount of overtime pay newsworthy??

If a traffic light goes out, it the amount of overtime and the cost of the use of equipment necessary to fix it newsworthy??

If a pipe bursts and people are without water, is the amount of overtime pay newsworthy??

If the power goes out and crews are dispatched to fix it, is the amount of overtime pay newsworthy??

I know $60k still sounds like a lot, but I bet the city is still very much well within their budget

[GoMuskies]

Seems like UD should just pony up to stay in the good graces of the city. What is that, the cost of tuition for two kids? Just pay it.

[xubrew]

Seems like UD should just pony up to stay in the good graces of the city. What is that, the cost of tuition for two kids? Just pay it.

It's less than what they paid IPFW, or anyone else that came in there for a buy game.

It's also probably significantly less than what is paid out for holidays such as the Fourth of July and New Years Eve. I don't think it's anything they can't afford. I worked for Louisville's Water Company for two summers, and while in college I worked at the Court House file room in Cincinnati (VERY exciting job :/). I was technically a city employee. I made twenty hours of overtime every week because after you've worked 40 hrs, they had to pay you time and a half, and I typically worked 60. They had no issues with it. If anything, it was helping them out because if they didn't max out their budget, then they'd have less money in their budget the following year. Perhaps it's the same with the cops.

I just think it's kinda stupid for the local paper to raise a fuss over how much money they cost the tax payers, when in reality they almost assuredly had budgeted for all the overtime any cop would ever have to work for the entire year, and then some.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

They have a big endowment, $50k isn't going to set them back at all.

[xubrew]

The cops probably appreciate Dayton for giving them the opportunity to work overtime hours and make some extra cash.

[sirthought]

If there is an electrical fire at someone's home, is the amount of overtime pay newsworthy??

If a traffic light goes out, it the amount of overtime and the cost of the use of equipment necessary to fix it newsworthy??

If a pipe bursts and people are without water, is the amount of overtime pay newsworthy??

If the power goes out and crews are dispatched to fix it, is the amount of overtime pay newsworthy??

I know $60k still sounds like a lot, but I bet the city is still very much well within their budget

I believe it actually would be newsworthy in every instance you mention. Maybe not to everyone, but to those who actually care where their tax dollars are going, yes...it's a newsworthy issue. I'm shocked you are even bringing this up.

[xubrew]

I believe it actually would be newsworthy in every instance you mention. Maybe not to everyone, but to those who actually care where their tax dollars are going, yes...it's a newsworthy issue. I'm shocked you are even bringing this up.

I've just never seen a news report that itemized how much overtime pay was given out whenever the power goes out in the middle of the night.

I think the Indy 500 is this weekend. I'm sure there will be cops working overtime. I don't think you'll see how much overtime pay was required on the local news, but maybe I'm wrong.

[X-band '01]

Big difference Brew is that cops in Indianapolis are prepared for such events; I'm not sure Dayton Police were expecting these kind of events in March. It had been 30 years since their last noteworthy NCAA run.

[xubrew]

Big difference Brew is that cops in Indianapolis are prepared for such events; I'm not sure Dayton Police were expecting these kind of events in March. It had been 30 years since their last noteworthy NCAA run.

Good point.

If the cops were smart, they would have arrested enough people and assessed enough in fines to cover the cost. No one's taxes are going up.

[paulxu]

If there is an electrical fire at someone's home, is the amount of overtime pay newsworthy??

If a traffic light goes out, it the amount of overtime and the cost of the use of equipment necessary to fix it newsworthy??

If a pipe bursts and people are without water, is the amount of overtime pay newsworthy??

If the power goes out and crews are dispatched to fix it, is the amount of overtime pay newsworthy??

I know $60k still sounds like a lot, but I bet the city is still very much well within their budget

Pretty sure the items on your list are all accidents.
UD President crowd surfing in the ghetto? That may have been an accident I guess.

[Cheesehead]

Miami Valley taxpayers and the University of Dayton shelled out more than $57,000 in overtime to fund police officers from 13 jurisdictions to control crowds at the University of Dayton as its men’s basketball team made a historic run in this year’s NCAA tournament.

Faced with the job of clearing the streets of thick crowds of thousands of students and visiting revelers, law enforcement officers at one point or another endured thrown half-filled beer bottles, fist-swinging brawlers, fireworks, couches set afire, plenty of curses and some stumbling drunks who had difficulty standing. Some of the revelers jumped up and down on vehicles as though they were trampolines.

Police were dispatched from UD, Dayton, Five Rivers MetroParks, Montgomery County Sheriff’s Office, the Ohio State Patrol, Brookville, Huber Heights, Kettering, Miami Twp., Riverside, Oakwood, Sinclair Community College and Vandalia. Between the three days of celebrations, a total of 350 officers patrolled the campus.

Those are among the details contained in a lengthy after-action report from the Dayton Police Department obtained exclusively by this newspaper and WHIO-TV that revisits the nights of March 22, 27 and 29 as the University of Dayton student “ghetto” went wild. The report’s analysis recommends a number of steps that could curtail problems the next time an out-of-control celebration threatens.

They include taking preemptive action like designating no parking zones on dates when disturbances could be common like St. Patrick’s Day or NCAA tournaments, making residents responsible for clean-ups, increasing street lighting in key areas, cutting back trees and shrubs to increase visibility and discourage tree-climbing, fixing concrete that could be torn up for projectiles, and requiring local alcohol sellers to not sell bottled beer during certain times since the glass can be a danger.

The university could also consider street cameras to discourage bad behavior, although privacy concerns could outweigh their use. The recommendations were authored by Dayton Police officer Colin L. Patterson of the East Patrol Operation Division using a law enforcement crime prevention model dubbed Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design.

The celebrations took a toll. By the time they wrapped up, Dayton Police officers were punched in the face, a Five Rivers MetroParks officer was hit in the chest by a thrown rock, and a media representative was hit in the face by a thrown can of beer. Officers were injured while controlling the crowd and 32 people were arrested and charged by either Dayton or UD police. Of those, 13 were UD students. Eight officers reported injuries in total and three students were hurt.

At one point, two paddy wagons on hand were filled.

Police found that of 29 reported crimes over a month in the area, 21 were the result of the March 27 disturbance and two crimes arose from disturbances March 23 and 17. Only a theft from a Brown Street restaurant where an unattended cell phone was stolen was not related.

The financial cost was also great. Dayton police incurred $35,476.96 in overtime, while UD Police paid out $15,663.47 for extra staffing. Kettering police shelled out the next highest amount for overtime, $3,767.05 over the three days they sent additional officers to the campus. For the one day Miami Twp. police responded, they paid $1,100 in overtime. The 13 jurisdictions that assisted accrued a combined $57,107.69 in overtime costs. The university will not reimburse the departments.

UD and Dayton police officials were not immediately available for comments Monday.

This was Kettering police’s first taste of a riot situation, said Chief James O’Dell, and while he commended the University and Dayton police’s command staff for how they planned and executed safety protocols at the campus, he said students need to be held accountable for the violent actions that made such plans necessary.

“I wish it had never happened,” he said. “I wish there was a little bit more adult behavior, but I think Chief Biehl in Dayton said also this was not the majority of students, this was a small minority group.”

It took officers armed with wooden batons, shields and helmets to clear streets and achieve control, but not before vehicles and a residence were reported damaged and medics made runs to assist the injured. At one point, police had gas masks at the ready.

Typical excerpts from the investigative reports tell some of the story:

March 23, 11:30 p.m.: “Officers were dispatched to a disturbance at the University of Dayton on Kiefaber Street. When we arrived we saw that the entire street was full of people drinking and throwing glass bottles at us. We were given the order to form a skirmish line and clear the street of people.

We started from the east and moved west on Kiefaber Street giving multiple orders to the crowd to disperse. Almost all of the crowd adhered to our orders and cleared the street….”

March 28 Midnight: “I provided verbal direction to (Kelsi) to get back on the sidewalk…(she)continued to step off the sidewalk. …After the third time when (she)stepped into the roadway, she was escorted to mobile staging area and placed under arrest….I observed her to be intoxicated as she slurred her speech, swayed as she sat and was unable to comprehend the information I provided to her as a result of intoxication. (She)was transported to Montgomery County Jail without incident.”

March 27 11:30 p.m.: “We took post in the middle of the 400 block of Kiefaber Street…during this time the crowd to the right side of me started to throw half full beer cans at me….at this time I was struck in the left side of my jaw with a beer bottle where my face shield and helmet did not cover. The bottle shattered as it impacted on my face sending glass and beer down my body. I bent over and covered myself with my shield because of the overwhelming pain caused by the bottle breaking over my jaw bone…I stayed on the scene for the remainder of the call…I had swelling and pain to the left side of my face…at this time I have no suspect information.”


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Police recommendations following UD disturbances:

[bobbiemcgee]

pay da man!

[GoMuskies]

said Chief James O’Dell..."this was not the majority of students, this was a small minority group.”


Racist

[Kahns Krazy]

I was technically a city employee. I made twenty hours of overtime every week because after you've worked 40 hrs, they had to pay you time and a half, and I typically worked 60. They had no issues with it. If anything, it was helping them out because if they didn't max out their budget, then they'd have less money in their budget the following year. Perhaps it's the same with the cops.

Oh my god this hurts my head so much. Spending unnecesary dollars on overtime and getting less productivity per dollar is beneficial because it helps pad the budget for next year, for even more unnecessary, unproductive spending. I'm not sure anyone has ever more concisely explained everything that is wrong with the public sector employee mentality.

[Kahns Krazy]

March 23, 11:30 p.m.: “Officers were dispatched to a disturbance at the University of Dayton on Kiefaber Street. When we arrived we saw that the entire street was full of people drinking and throwing glass bottles at us. We were given the order to form a skirmish line and clear the street of people.:

As the police officers arrived, they observed people already in the act of throwing bottles at the arriving police officers? That timing sounds fuzzy.

[blobfan]

VERY stupid move to not offer to cover at least some of the costs. Creating hostility between police and university never works out well.

[xubrew]

Oh my god this hurts my head so much. Spending unnecesary dollars on overtime and getting less productivity per dollar is beneficial because it helps pad the budget for next year, for even more unnecessary, unproductive spending. I'm not sure anyone has ever more concisely explained everything that is wrong with the public sector employee mentality.

Hey, the file room has got to be maintained. This is essential and important stuff!

Even I thought it was kind of ridiculous, but it was ridiculous to my benefit. I believe that is the only time in my life where that has ever been the case. They said I could work as much as I wanted when I wanted, and anything over forty hours was time and a half. And, they were always behind. So, I had no issues working 8-7 every day in the summers. It helped pay for Xavier.


Officers were injured while controlling the crowd and 32 people were arrested and charged by either Dayton or UD police. Of those, 13 were UD students. Eight officers reported injuries in total and three students were hurt.


Dish out fines for everyone in the amount of about $2500, and tack some community service on to it. That sounds fair. Problem solved. They actually come out ahead.

[xubrew]

I miss the good ole days, when you could rip out a lamppost, ram it through the window of a campus building, and actually get away with it because it wasn't posted on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWSpocEPLHY

[jcubspoe]

http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2014/05/07/report-ud-s-tournament-run-worth-72m-to-city.html

[Masterofreality]

I know $60k still sounds like a lot, but I bet the city is still very much well within their budget

$60,000 is the Gross Municipal Product of dayton.

[Masterofreality]

http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2014/05/07/report-ud-s-tournament-run-worth-72m-to-city.html

$72,000,000? In who's world?

Are tourists from Shanghai and Dubai flocking to the dump because a college basketball team won a couple of games? Uh, no. What ridiculous metric is used to come up with a $72 million valuation? Alleged "exposure" on TV and Facebook based upon some flawed premise of ad revenue? There sure isn't $72 million more flowing into the City's coffers from tax revenue or any other source.

There is very little in the world more wrong than using TV advertising/exposure dollars as a measurement- especially when that exposure is displaying a fundamentally faulty, defective and unsound product.

Nice try Sherman.

[RoseyMuskie]

Oh my god this hurts my head so much. Spending unnecesary dollars on overtime and getting less productivity per dollar is beneficial because it helps pad the budget for next year, for even more unnecessary, unproductive spending. I'm not sure anyone has ever more concisely explained everything that is wrong with the public sector employee mentality.

Sad thing is, this is how Xavier's Club Sports budget operates. My team was "fiscally responsible" and was prepared to roll about $1,000 from one season to the next. We were told we'd receive less on our allocation as a result, so we spent the $1,000 on unnecessary gear. As such, we ended up getting a larger allocation.

This scares me, because the philosophy likely permeates throughout the University.

[jcubspoe]

$72,000,000? In who's world?

Are tourists from Shanghai and Dubai flocking to the dump because a college basketball team won a couple of games? Uh, no. What ridiculous metric is used to come up with a $72 million valuation? Alleged "exposure" on TV and Facebook based upon some flawed premise of ad revenue? There sure isn't $72 million more flowing into the City's coffers from tax revenue or any other source.

There is very little in the world more wrong than using TV advertising/exposure dollars as a measurement- especially when that exposure is displaying a fundamentally faulty, defective and unsound product.

Nice try Sherman.

I agree....probably way too high of a number. But irregardless, the city made money on the tourny run. And even if the city didn't make a dime, they made $15 million on the First Four games...so the point is 60K...big deal.

Guess how much money Cincy and Dayton spend in taxpayer money (police overtime) when a politician comes to town.

And just to clarify, I'm pretty sure there isn't any "bad blood" between city / university in this...most cities have what are called mutual aid agreements with local jurisdictions. Dayton PD will generally gladly help out Kettering PD and not charge them every time they do and vice versa. UD Police handle many incidents up and down Brown St even though it's Dayton jurisdiction and vice versa.

[Muskie1000]

Sad thing is, this is how Xavier's Club Sports budget operates. My team was "fiscally responsible" and was prepared to roll about $1,000 from one season to the next. We were told we'd receive less on our allocation as a result, so we spent the $1,000 on unnecessary gear. As such, we ended up getting a larger allocation.

This scares me, because the philosophy likely permeates throughout the University.

I hate to say it, but I think that philosophy permeates throughout a lot of companies, organizations, etc... I know at my church that if you don't use your budget, they will also reduce it the next year. They figure if you didn't need it now you won't need it later.

[xubrew]

VERY stupid move to not offer to cover at least some of the costs. Creating hostility between police and university never works out well.

I don't think the police feel all that much hostility because they worked overtime and received overtime pay for doing it. Most cops and city employees want to work overtime.

[Juice]

I don't think the police feel all that much hostility because they worked overtime and received overtime pay for doing it. Most cops and city employees want to work overtime.

I'm almost positive the police who worked overtime are not mad about this (unless they got injured). I know that in Hamilton County they love going to work on their off days because they get overtime for that.

[bobbiemcgee]

Originally Posted by blobfan View Post
VERY stupid move to not offer to cover at least some of the costs. Creating hostility between TAXPAYERS and university never works out well.

fixed.

[blobfan]

I don't think the police feel all that much hostility because they worked overtime and received overtime pay for doing it. Most cops and city employees want to work overtime.
I'm sure having bottles and other objects thrown at them created feelings of hostility. And when they can't get equipment upgrades or add personnel because they are short due to unplanned overtime, it's not going to make them happier either.

Sad thing is, this is how Xavier's Club Sports budget operates. My team was "fiscally responsible" and was prepared to roll about $1,000 from one season to the next. We were told we'd receive less on our allocation as a result, so we spent the $1,000 on unnecessary gear. As such, we ended up getting a larger allocation.

This scares me, because the philosophy likely permeates throughout the University.
That goes back at least to the early 90s and covered all SGA clubs. That's terrible for groups that travelled to regional conventions as part of their mission because some destinations were more expensive than others and you couldn't save back from one year to make up for a shortfall the next.


I agree....probably way too high of a number. But irregardless, the city made money on the tourny run. And even if the city didn't make a dime, they made $15 million on the First Four games...so the point is 60K...big deal. ...
That article does not say the city MADE $70M. It said the value of the exposure was akin to $70M in advertising. I'm assuming that correlates to what they would have had to pay a marketing firm and media outlets in order to get that amount of exposure. There is no reason to assume Dayton planned to spend $70 on national advertising so this is not a savings for the city, nor does the article does say it will result in $70M of income to the city. Basically they got $70M of something intangible that may never result in that much actual cash but it cost almost $60M. That doesn't sound like much of a win to me.

[bobbiemcgee]

Really? 70M advertising/exposure? Wouldn't you actually have to have something someone wanted? I saw a dilapidated town on TV and now I want to move my Silicon Valley firm there? My guess would be if they got a billion in exposure, income derived would still be zip. Articles describing the student "ghetto"? Where do I sign up. Absurd.

[Muskie1000]

Even if some company got excited seeing Dayton in the tourney and decided to check it out, when they got there the excitement for Dayton would have deflated quicker than a popped balloon. On a side note, I get to spend part of my day in the fair city on my son's field trip to Wright Patt.

[xubrew]

This whole thing is stupid.

The riots didn't really cost the city anything. The citations that were handed out, and the fines that those who got arrested will have to pay, will more than offset the $60k of overtime that was paid out. Kentucky fans rioted in Lexington on multiple nights. Same with UConn. Same with Louisville when they won it all a year ago (at least riot police were called in, even though it wasn't much of a riot). Even if it wasn't the riot police, it is commonplace to have extra police on duty when schools are deep into the tournament. Same with the Super Bowl, and at times the World Series (if it's Boston) or the NBA Finals (if it's Boston). This is the first time I've ever heard of anyone making a fuss about how much it cost the city in overtime pay.

On the flip side, Dayton is not $70 million dollars richer. The basketball team played on television on networks that received a lot of viewers. I guess if the city wanted to put on an eight hour infomercial on network television, it may cost at least $70 million (probably a lot more, actually), getting to play on TV isn't the same as MAKING $70 million. How the hell did they come up with that figure??

....and even if it were an issue, which it's not....why does anyone care about Dayton's tax dollars and city budgets?? I don't. But, strangely enough, I admittedly do care about other peopling caring about something isn't really an issue in the first place.

[blobfan]

This whole thing is stupid.

The riots didn't really cost the city anything. The citations that were handed out, and the fines that those who got arrested will have to pay, will more than offset the $60k of overtime that was paid out. Kentucky fans rioted in Lexington on multiple nights. Same with UConn. Same with Louisville when they won it all a year ago (at least riot police were called in, even though it wasn't much of a riot). Even if it wasn't the riot police, it is commonplace to have extra police on duty when schools are deep into the tournament. Same with the Super Bowl, and at times the World Series (if it's Boston) or the NBA Finals (if it's Boston). This is the first time I've ever heard of anyone making a fuss about how much it cost the city in overtime pay.

On the flip side, Dayton is not $70 million dollars richer. The basketball team played on television on networks that received a lot of viewers. I guess if the city wanted to put on an eight hour infomercial on network television, it may cost at least $70 million (probably a lot more, actually), getting to play on TV isn't the same as MAKING $70 million. How the hell did they come up with that figure??

....and even if it were an issue, which it's not....why does anyone care about Dayton's tax dollars and city budgets?? I don't. But, strangely enough, I admittedly do care about other peopling caring about something isn't really an issue in the first place.

Can you please cite your source for this because I've not seen anything about people being fined. One article said 32 people were arrested. Split the $60M amongst them and the average fine would be $1.875M per person. I just don't see that happening.

[Masterofreality]

Can you please cite your source for this because I've not seen anything about people being fined. One article said 32 people were arrested. Split the $60M amongst them and the average fine would be $1.875M per person. I just don't see that happening.

$60k...not $60m.

[xubrew]

Can you please cite your source for this because I've not seen anything about people being fined. One article said 32 people were arrested. Split the $60M amongst them and the average fine would be $1.875M per person. I just don't see that happening.

For starters, it was $60 THOUSAND, not $60 MILLION. Slight difference there. Now, if they'd paid their officers a total of $60 million in overtime, then that would be newsworthy. It was actually only about $35,000 since the figure of $60,000 included the UD campus police that worked overtime. On top of that, more than half of those who were arrested weren't even students.

If all of them are found not guilty, then the city deserves to eat the $60k for arresting all those people that weren't doing anything wrong in the first place. But, between the combination of open containers, public intox, disorderly conduct, and resisting arrest, an average fine of about $2000 just sounds about right to me.

No one's taxes are going up, and the city isn't going bankrupt over this. Like I said, it's the only city in the nation that would feel the need to make a big deal out of how much was spent on overtime pay.

[blobfan]

For starters, it was $60 THOUSAND, not $60 MILLION. Slight difference there. Now, if they'd paid their officers a total of $60 million in overtime, then that would be newsworthy. It was actually only about $35,000 since the figure of $60,000 included the UD campus police that worked overtime. On top of that, more than half of those who were arrested weren't even students.
Ha! Major case of Friday before a holiday brain there! Sorry.

If all of them are found not guilty, then the city deserves to eat the $60k for arresting all those people that weren't doing anything wrong in the first place. But, between the combination of open containers, public intox, disorderly conduct, and resisting arrest, an average fine of about $2000 just sounds about right to me.
Not sure how it's relevant whether or not all those arrested/rioting were current UD students or whether it really matters which department incurred the cost, but $2,000 in fines for drunk & disorderly? Is that really standard? You'd have to add in court costs too I imagine.

Still, you are making guesses here. You apparently have nothing to support your contention that the fines will cover the cost of overtime, as I suspected. So I remain convinced that UD should help cover those costs since the bad behavior occurred in an area that is primarily student housing. Should Dayton police really have expected the idiots to riot after a sweet 16 win? You mention Lville riots after winning it all and World Series and Super Bowl wins. Those aren't exactly examples of smart behavior but are at least fairly rare. But Sweet 16 in the NCAA tourney? You think the local police should have been prepared for what happened. REALLY?!?!?

For kicks, I looked up public intoxication fines in Montgomery Ohio and the first thing that came up was a link to a page on UD's site! (http://www.udayton.edu/studev/wellness/laws/state_laws.php) Too funny. But it does mention that maximum fines are $1,000 and most are $150 or $250, max. I don't think they are recouping costs at that rate.

[xubrew]

Just curious Blobfan,

Why is it that you and everyone take time to assess and weigh in on this?? Of all the causes to attach yourself to, it just seems odd that you'd pick the reimbursement of the Dayton PD, especially since they have an annual budget for overtime that I'd be very shocked if it was ended up being exceeded simply because of this.

There were over 25 fires set in Lexington after Kentucky beat Louisville.....in The Sweet Sixteen. That probably cost a whole lot more than $60k, yet no one is fixated on that. I'm pretty sure the Lexington Police do not feel it necessitates reimbursement on the part of UK. I don't think the Dayton PD do either. Yet, for some reason, people who have absolutely nothing to do with it think it's an issue.

It's been a while since I lived in Ohio, but I believe first degree misdemeanors are punishable by up to a thousand bucks in fines. This includes such behaviors as vandalism, inciting violence, arson (ie lighting couches on fire. I believe that's punishable by a MINIMUM of $1000). I wasn't there, but I'm willing to bet that those who actually got arrested were probably doing multiple things that fell under the category of a first degree misdemeanor or worse. I don't think they just randomly locked up 33 people who they felt had had a few too many. But, yes. I'm just assuming. Just like you're assuming that no fines will be assessed to anyone.

[GoMuskies]

It's in the news.

[blobfan]

Just curious Blobfan,

Why is it that you and everyone take time to assess and weigh in on this?? Of all the causes to attach yourself to, it just seems odd that you'd pick the reimbursement of the Dayton PD, especially since they have an annual budget for overtime that I'd be very shocked if it was ended up being exceeded simply because of this.

There were over 25 fires set in Lexington after Kentucky beat Louisville.....in The Sweet Sixteen. That probably cost a whole lot more than $60k, yet no one is fixated on that. I'm pretty sure the Lexington Police do not feel it necessitates reimbursement on the part of UK. I don't think the Dayton PD do either. Yet, for some reason, people who have absolutely nothing to do with it think it's an issue.

It's been a while since I lived in Ohio, but I believe first degree misdemeanors are punishable by up to a thousand bucks in fines. This includes such behaviors as vandalism, inciting violence, arson (ie lighting couches on fire. I believe that's punishable by a MINIMUM of $1000). I wasn't there, but I'm willing to bet that those who actually got arrested were probably doing multiple things that fell under the category of a first degree misdemeanor or worse. I don't think they just randomly locked up 33 people who they felt had had a few too many. But, yes. I'm just assuming. Just like you're assuming that no fines will be assessed to anyone.

Why do YOU take the time to assess and weigh in on this? And why do you keep spouting assumptions to support your contention rather than facts? I posted the current information from UD's own web site about fines in the area and you respond with your own assumptions as to minimums. And again, where is your proof that Dayton police have an overtime budget that would cover this event? Why do YOU repeatedly insist on making up facts to support your contentions?

[xu82]

On a lighter but more curious note, who throws half full beers at the police? Don't they know there's a half a beer left?

[paulxu]

On a lighter but more curious note, who throws half full beers at the police? Don't they know there's a half a beer left?

Marketing people. They were calculating the publicity value to the city of a riot, and decided it was worth an additional 30 second spot, which we all know is worth millions during March Madness.

[xubrew]

Why do YOU take the time to assess and weigh in on this? And why do you keep spouting assumptions to support your contention rather than facts? I posted the current information from UD's own web site about fines in the area and you respond with your own assumptions as to minimums. And again, where is your proof that Dayton police have an overtime budget that would cover this event? Why do YOU repeatedly insist on making up facts to support your contentions?

Fair question. I'm intrigued by selective emphatic overreactions to non-issues, especially when they come from people who have no skin in the game anyway.

On top of that, a lot of he outrage is based on suppositions that the police don't budget for overtime, and that everyone who got arrested is guilty of nothing more than public intox so that there won't be much handed out in the way of fines.

If there is a budget shortage for the Dayton PD, I'm sure we'll hear about it. Any news outlet that feels compelled to report on overtime pay will probably also report on a PD that runs out of cash and needs a supplement. Until that happens, I think this is very much ado about nothing by people who wouldn't be effected even if it were about something.

[paulxu]

Brew, I'm curious. Do you have skin in this issue?
I am also "intrigued by selective emphatic overreactions to non-issues," and since you have about 1/4 the posts in this thread, that would be appear (without skin) to be the case.

[xubrew]

Brew, I'm curious. Do you have skin in this issue?
I am also "intrigued by selective emphatic overreactions to non-issues," and since you have about 1/4 the posts in this thread, that would be appear (without skin) to be the case.

Of course I don't. I'm not up in arms about how they had to pay the cops overtime. I'm just (admittedly) staring in amazement at those that are.

[bobbiemcgee]

So your good with squandering taxpayer funds on stupid shit. Maybe you should run for Congress.

[xu82]

So your good with squandering taxpayer funds on stupid shit. Maybe you should run for Congress.

That won't get him into Congress. Maybe some local position.... There would need to be a lot more zeros on the number to get into Congress.

[xubrew]

So your good with squandering taxpayer funds on stupid shit. Maybe you should run for Congress.

If people's taxes end up increasing even one cent because of this then I'll concede the point. I'm sure all those who are concerned about this will keep me posted.

If the police are forced to ask for more funding before the fiscal year ends and cites this as a reason, I'll also concede the point.

As concerned as everyone is about how Dayton may have to shuffle its tax dollars around to cover this, I'm surprised that people aren't equally concerned about other riots that occurred. Actually, no I'm not.

[vee4xu]

I suspect that when any meaningful men's basketball success skips an entire generation of fans so insatiably starved for success, especially in light of Xavier's success over the last generation, this is how people react. That, to me, is really at the heart of the article versus who paid how much to whom to contain it. In a perverted way, I guess I can almost relate to these dayton fans having spent my whole life rooting for losing Cleveland teams. I will tell you this, if a Cleveland team EVER wins an championship the cost we see here will pale in comparison to those in Cleveland. In fact, the police there will probably just join the celebration and it will be anarchy. And I assure you, I will be there drunk and disorderly on East 9th Street among the lunacy!

[blobfan]

Of course I don't. I'm not up in arms about how they had to pay the cops overtime. I'm just (admittedly) staring in amazement at those that are.

But you HAVE been jumping to the the defense of UD in multiple threads. I've been wondering if you lost a bet and had to hand over your user account info to a dump fan. You also keep making assumptions in this thread with no support and then accusing other people of making assumptions, even when we provide some supporting evidence to validate our assumptions. But the most offensive contention of yours is that because you think fines are going to cover the overtime that the riots are a non-event. So, yeah, it's the off-season and your goofiness has attracted my attention.

I don't care if it's Dayton or Lexington of Podunk U: this is news. Just because this happens from time to time in various university towns doesn't mean it's ok. Just because the town has a budget that may hypothetically plan for this amount of overtime doesn't mean it's ok. The university messed up and let their students go batsh!t crazy. As a good community member they should step up and help the local municipality cover costs. I'd hope X would do the same if our students acted this stupid.

[X-band '01]

If our students aren't going to act stupid over Elite 8/Sweet 16 runs or act stupid over other holidays (or, for that matter, the administration's handling of the Wells and Crosstown Shootout situations), I don't think we need to worry about Xavier students causing unrest.

I know, I know, Xavier students just aren't passionate about things like our neighbors up north.

[paulxu]

So, are you saying Fr. Graham should surf the crowd in front of Dana's to ramp up the enthusiasm level to riot status?

[GoMuskies]

gladdenguy would love the opportunity to drop a crowdsurfing Fr. Graham, I suspect.

[X-band '01]

So would MuskiePimp and a couple of others.

[xubrew]

But you HAVE been jumping to the the defense of UD in multiple threads. I've been wondering if you lost a bet and had to hand over your user account info to a dump fan. You also keep making assumptions in this thread with no support and then accusing other people of making assumptions, even when we provide some supporting evidence to validate our assumptions. But the most offensive contention of yours is that because you think fines are going to cover the overtime that the riots are a non-event. So, yeah, it's the off-season and your goofiness has attracted my attention.

I don't care if it's Dayton or Lexington of Podunk U: this is news. Just because this happens from time to time in various university towns doesn't mean it's ok. Just because the town has a budget that may hypothetically plan for this amount of overtime doesn't mean it's ok. The university messed up and let their students go batsh!t crazy. As a good community member they should step up and help the local municipality cover costs. I'd hope X would do the same if our students acted this stupid.



Okay blobfan. I didn't mean to come off as thinking that the riots were a non-event. I do think that reporting the amount of overtime pay was petty. It's just that I do not think that what happened in Dayton was any MORE newsworthy than what happened at UConn, Kentucky, or other places, yet that is the only incident that anyone on here is talking about.

You're absolutely right. Just because it happens everywhere doesn't mean it's okay. So, with that in mind, why are people only talking about the riots in Dayton?? If riots in Dayton are such a big deal to people on here, then why aren't riots that happen on a much larger scale at other places also a big deal?? No one is talking about those even though they're every bit as unacceptable. There have been multiple riots during the NCAA Tournament at various places over the last fifteen years, and probably longer. This is the first time I recall anyone feeling the need to sit up and take notice about how much overtime they had to pay the cops and demanded restitution on the part of the university. It just seems that Xavier fans are rather selective with their outrage. They take more issue with this than anyone else, but only in regards to what happened in Dayton.

...and like I said, if the actual police departments ask for reimbursement, or ask for additional funding before the end of the fiscal year because of this incident, or if taxes end up increasing by any rate because of this, then I'll concede the point.

[paulxu]

So, with that in mind, why are people only talking about the riots in Dayton?? If riots in Dayton are such a big deal to people on here, then why aren't riots that happen on a much larger scale at other places also a big deal??

Sure, I'll play. Take your pick of the following to answer your questions:

1 - Dayton is right up the road
2 - They use to be in our conference
3 - They have obnoxious, holier than thou fans who won't even allow people onto their closed message board
4 - The national news reported on it multiple times
5 - The national sports networks reported on it multiple times
6 - The story was originally started by the local Dayton news...not XavierHoops
7 - If the UC students rioted, I'm pretty sure you'd see the same reaction. Just look at the posts about cold cocking a horse


....well, you get the idea.


This is the first time I recall anyone feeling the need to sit up and take notice about how much overtime they had to pay the cops and demanded restitution on the part of the university. It just seems that Xavier fans are rather selective with their outrage.

You do know that the people who sat up and took notice of the overtime were at the Dayton Daily News...right?

[xu82]

Sure, I'll play. Take your pick of the following to answer your questions:

1 - Dayton is right up the road
2 - They use to be in our conference
3 - They have obnoxious, holier than thou fans who won't even allow people onto their closed message board
4 - The national news reported on it multiple times
5 - The national sports networks reported on it multiple times
6 - The story was originally started by the local Dayton news...not XavierHoops
7 - If the UC students rioted, I'm pretty sure you'd see the same reaction. Just look at the posts about cold cocking a horse


....well, you get the idea.



You do know that the people who sat up and took notice of the overtime were at the Dayton Daily News...right?

So..... what's your point?

Just kidding, I'm sure all the other rioting got plenty of attention from those schools deepest rivals. It's only natural to want to tarnish the moment and make a point if it's so well deserved. I can't be bothered with everyone's foolishness. What else would you expect?

[xubrew]

You do know that the people who sat up and took notice of the overtime were at the Dayton Daily News...right?

Yes, I did know that. I don't see why that matters. Does it?? If anything it makes me kind of wonder why something in the Dayton Daily News even becomes a topic of discussion over here if people supposedly don't care about them anymore. The local Lexington and Storrs papers also covered the campus riots, BTW.


So..... what's your point?

Just kidding, I'm sure all the other rioting got plenty of attention from those schools deepest rivals. It's only natural to want to tarnish the moment and make a point if it's so well deserved. I can't be bothered with everyone's foolishness. What else would you expect?

Actually, probably not. Kentucky's and UConn's deepest rivals have all had issues with rioting in the past.

I'm not saying it's acceptable, but it is kind of the norm. I really don't know what can be done to change it. I think it's to the point now where we just have lots of people who are more excited about the opportunity to riot than they actually are about winning or losing the game, and they just converge on that area so they can tear a bunch of crap up. More than half the people arrested in Dayton weren't even students. Can you hold a campus responsible for that when a lot of the people who are tearing shit up don't actually have anything to do with the university?? It's the same everywhere. Many (probably way more than half) of the troublemakers aren't actually students and don't have anything to do with the school. They're just morons who like flipping strangers' cars over. A lot of them are students, but most aren't.

If I'm reading this right, these are the sixteen people who were arrested who were not UD students. The reason I say that is because it makes mention of how 12 UD students were arrested, and could face various charges. It then lists sixteen other people who had actually been cited. Misdemeanor rioting, I believe is $1000 bucks. I'm not sure what felony rioting, felony assaulting an officer, and disorderly conduct gets you, but I imagine it's a lot.

http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-law/ud-students-risk-lot-clash-police/nfNFm/

[xu82]

I'm not saying it's acceptable, but it is kind of the norm. I really don't know what can be done to change it. I think it's to the point now where we just have lots of people who are more excited about the opportunity to riot than they actually are about winning or losing the game, and they just converge on that area so they can tear a bunch of crap up.

Sadly, that seems to be the case. It's not just for Final Fours either. Lord help your city if you win a Super Bowl. I don't claim to track this nonsense (not a strong enough word), but it brings out the drunken fools. Having said that, it's natural to poke the rival who has some some success but then is embarrassed by their behavior. The fan base is part of what makes UD what it is. The lack of a diploma from UD does not change things. OSU and Univ of Florida have some obnoxious fans who cast a shadow on those schools despite never having attended. It's just one more advantage to being a Xavier fan!

[xu82]

On a side note, we had a couch at our house on Cleneay that the Health Dept. probably would have advised incineration as the only acceptable form of retirement, but throwing a half a beer at a cop? What were they thinking? Kids nowadays just have no respect! For the cops or the beer...

[xudash]

Brew, you seem to be in a tough, if not unenviable position of being fond of both Xavier and UD.

[xubrew]

Brew, you seem to be in a tough, if not unenviable position of being fond of both Xavier and UD.

I'm really not. I have more reasons to not like them then I'm going to get into on here.

I was accused of defending UD when I said I thought they'd make the NCAA Tournament as an at-large....but that actually ended up happening.

I said that I thought Dayton did a great job with their OOC schedule. It's not because I'm fond of them. I just think they did a good job putting it together. They challenged themselves without overwhelming themselves, and were able to get several notable road wins.

I was accused of defending UD when I said the A10 was good and would put six teams into the tournament......but that actually happened as well.

I get slammed for wanting UD on the schedule. I want UC on the schedule as well. That doesn't mean that I like them. I do think the Dayton game was one of the only A10 games that was actually fun no matter how good or bad UD was. It generated more interest than just about any other game. So much so that people still talk about them even though we don't play them. So, yeah. I want to play them because of how much dislike there is between the two. To me, that's great theater. I actually hate Ohio State more than I hate Dayton, but given the choice I'd rather play Ohio State. Largely because I hate them. I just don't see us getting that game on equal terms, though.

As far as this thread goes, I just think it's hard for anyone to manage a crowd of people that converges on a campus hell bent on tearing shit up, especially when a good many of them have nothing to do with the school.

So, what have I actually said about UD that indicates that I'm fond of them?? I really just call them the way that I see them.

[xudash]

I'm really not. I have more reasons to not like them then I'm going to get into on here.

I was accused of defending UD when I said I thought they'd make the NCAA Tournament as an at-large....but that actually ended up happening.

I said that I thought Dayton did a great job with their OOC schedule. It's not because I'm fond of them. I just think they did a good job putting it together. They challenged themselves without overwhelming themselves, and were able to get several notable road wins.

I was accused of defending UD when I said the A10 was good and would put six teams into the tournament......but that actually happened as well.

I get slammed for wanting UD on the schedule. I want UC on the schedule as well. That doesn't mean that I like them. I do think the Dayton game was one of the only A10 games that was actually fun no matter how good or bad UD was. It generated more interest than just about any other game. So much so that people still talk about them even though we don't play them. So, yeah. I want to play them because of how much dislike there is between the two. To me, that's great theater. I actually hate Ohio State more than I hate Dayton, but given the choice I'd rather play Ohio State. Largely because I hate them. I just don't see us getting that game on equal terms, though.

As far as this thread goes, I just think it's hard for anyone to manage a crowd of people that converges on a campus hell bent on tearing shit up, especially when a good many of them have nothing to do with the school.

So, what have I actually said about UD that indicates that I'm fond of them?? I really just call them the way that I see them.

Nothing, specifically. I guess you're just calling them the way you see them.

[GoMuskies]

It was bashing Xavier fans on UD Pride that convinced me of your fondness for Dayton.

[xu82]

So, what have I actually said about UD that indicates that I'm fond of them?? I really just call them the way that I see them.

So, is it hard to type with a UD Pom-Pom on each hand? :laugh:


You have to give credit where credit is due. They did it last year and we did not. I don't like them either and they did shame themselves. I hope when we win it all with our incoming class we don't burn any couches and need to apologize for our behavior. (Unless, of course, it's like our old couch - some stuff needs to be burned!)

Detroit expects to win a Stanley Cup every few years. It's all accounted for financially. Who woulda thunk UD would get where they did? Not a financial given - to say the least.

[xubrew]

It was bashing Xavier fans on UD Pride that convinced me of your fondness for Dayton.

Okay, Post the link. I can't remember all the stuff I've ever posted. I've criticized fans before, and maybe I did do it on UD Pride, but i don't remember. Maybe you're right. Maybe I did do that, but I don't think anything I say over there is critically any different than anything I say over here. I know lots of Xavier fans have read and still read that site....even though they don't care about UD.

[xubrew]

So..... what's your point?

Just kidding, I'm sure all the other rioting got plenty of attention from those schools deepest rivals. It's only natural to want to tarnish the moment and make a point if it's so well deserved. I can't be bothered with everyone's foolishness. What else would you expect?

Watch out xu82. The bold statement seems to indicate that you feel Dayton is Xavier's deepest rival, and that explains why the fans are so fixated on this.

I agree. Dayton is a rival. But, many of the posters here who read their message board, read their local newspaper, make unprovoked comments and references about them over here, start threads about them, and contribute to the multiple threads that have been started about them....insist that it's not a rivalry. They're just another team that no one cares about and that we shouldn't play. Just like all of the other teams that we have extensive discussions about how we shouldn't play.

[GoMuskies]

You seem to be getting worked up. Don't hump a melon dude.

[xubrew]

You seem to be getting worked up. Don't hump a melon dude.

Ehh, I am, but not because of this. This is just an outlet for passing the time, and for the things that actually do work me up.

[blobfan]

Ehh, I am, but not because of this. This is just an outlet for passing the time, and for the things that actually do work me up.

If you have that much time to kill how about researching the actual fine for misdemeaners instead of making up a figure and posting it as 'I think it's something like..." rather than making completely unsupported statements about being sure that the fines will more than cover the cost of overtime? You can probably find info on the Dayton police budget and whether or not they have enough overtime budgeted to cover a bunch of idiot college students and their not-currently-enrolled friends rioting after a minor tournament win.

[bobbiemcgee]

So, are you saying Fr. Graham should surf the crowd in front of Dana's to ramp up the enthusiasm level to riot status?

The Dayton fans thought a smiling Curran posing in front of the riot police was good pub for the university. They should put it on the cover of the admissions brochure. Thugs.

And who has their student housing located in a place called the "ghetto"? Really? "Hey Mom and Pop, I want to go to UD so I can live in the ghetto for 35k a yr."

[xubrew]

If you have that much time to kill how about researching the actual fine for misdemeaners instead of making up a figure and posting it as 'I think it's something like..." rather than making completely unsupported statements about being sure that the fines will more than cover the cost of overtime? You can probably find info on the Dayton police budget and whether or not they have enough overtime budgeted to cover a bunch of idiot college students and their not-currently-enrolled friends rioting after a minor tournament win.

Hey, don't forget about the bunch of idiots that weren't college students. They accounted for more than half the arrests, you know.

Honestly, I really just don't care enough to track down an itemized budget for the Dayton PD, or precisely what fines are for those particular offenses. I didn't look up the fines in Storrs or Lexington either. If you took the time to do all that before fussing about how much money it was costing the city, then all power to you (I guess). If not, then your statements really aren't any more supported than mine.

In remembering my days in the Cincinnati court house file room, most first degree misdemeanors were around $1000. Admittedly, though, that's just approximate and not precise, and it was about twelve years ago, but that's where I got the figure from. I just figured it was probably about the same in Dayton, but maybe it's not. I'm sure if they run out of funding before the end of the fiscal year, you'll be the first one to let everyone know about it.

[paulxu]

I know lots of Xavier fans have read and still read that site....even though they don't care about UD.

Well, no sh$t. It's like one of those Epic Fail compilation videos.
You watch those and sort of think...no one can be that idiotic...then Boom! They did do it! They are that idiotic.
Same principle at work over at that site.

[xubrew]

Definitely check out the Paul Finebaum radio show. Just don't listen while driving because you might wreck the car.

[bobbiemcgee]

Dayton losing their PG Price who started 37 games to transfer. Their huge doofus center recruit hasn't qualified yet. Devon Scott (2ppg) may be headed to the joint. Picked up 2 zero star Juco's. So much for the surge of talent coming in after an E8.

[xudash]

Dayton losing their PG Price who started 37 games to transfer. Their huge doofus center recruit hasn't qualified yet. Devon Scott (2ppg) may be headed to the joint. Picked up 2 zero star Juco's. So much for the surge of talent coming in after an E8.

What's that about!?

And I thought those idiots considered themselves so squeaky clean. They bring back a scarecrow rapist, and now this...

[ammtd34]

What's that about!?

And I thought those idiots considered themselves so squeaky clean. They bring back a scarecrow rapist, and now this...

Domestic violence with his baby mama. He's not currently on the team. No one's quite sure what will happen.

[paulxu]

Crowd surfing in the Ghetto.

[bobbiemcgee]

Domestic violence with his baby mama. He's not currently on the team. No one's quite sure what will happen.



Court Case Schedule History - 2014-CRB-002207
06/16/2014
1:30PM
3A
Criminal Pretrial

Yeah, they only recruit choir boys. The ones that like to assault girls.

[xubrew]

They only recruit choir boys and they would never do something like force a player out who had been a contributor, but who just had surgery and would likely struggle in the upcoming year.

[bobbiemcgee]

Yeah, sux for Price.