UC or UD

[Xville]

Just wanted to get some people's opinions here. Maybe it has been bantered around before but I don't remember. Anyways, if you had to choose one game for Xavier to play every year would you rather have them play UD or UC and why?

Personally, I would rather play Dayton every year. As insufferable as their fans are, I enjoyed the rivalry with them much more than UC. Dayton is a much more like-minded university to Xavier than UC, and again as much as I can't stand their fans, they support their team much more than the bandwagon fans at UC. Furthermore, I actually respect Archie Miller...Mick Cronin is a dirty little troll who whines at every chance he gets. Lastly, I really don't want to bolster UC's non-conference schedule every year.

I'm not sure what exactly it is, maybe it is because of when I became a Xavier fan (2000) or maybe it is because I don't live in Cincy anymore, but beating UD to me is much more satisfying than beating UC. Anyone else feel that way or feel completely different?

[nuts4xu]

Anyone else feel that way or feel completely different?

A win against UD is more satisfying, but I would prefer to play UC each year over dayton. dayton is low level and we have no benefits to playing them. If we win, we were supposed to win. If we lose, we lost to a mostly average A-10 team. They had a nice finish to the season last year, but that was their first in 20 years. I am with you, and respect Archie Miller more than Mickey Mouse Cronin. But now that dayton is not on our schedule, they are out of sight and out of mind.

Living in Cincy, UC fans are everywhere and are more fun to argue with. A win against UC will typically help us more than a win over dayton, and I don't care to ever step foot in that dump of an arena in Dayton.

[RealDeal]

Is this a joke? How old are you xville?

[ammtd34]

As insufferable as their fans are, I enjoyed the rivalry with them much more than UC. Dayton is a much more like-minded university to Xavier than UC, and again as much as I can't stand their fans, they support their team much more than the bandwagon fans at UC.

Their fans are unique. They go to the games regardless of whether they're winning or losing, but it's a really weird phenomenon. "Support" should be loosely applied here. I go to 3-4 UD games a year with my wife's grandparents' season tickets. If things aren't going well, it is the quietest place in the world. One of my favorite things to do is try to find people sleeping, which I have never failed to do. If the game is above a 6 pt margin at the under 8, the place empties. I know it's a cliché to talk about the age of their fanbase, but the average age in the section I sit is 70+. This year, there was a running narrative about how no one liked the warm up music, so several people around our seats called and emailed the athletic department. They're a different breed.

[X-band '01]

Slam-dunk UC. Even when they're down, there is more to be gained on a local and national scale than if Xavier were to play Dayton.

The real irony that most Flyer fans are missing is that they seemed to be much more relaxed this season instead of wasting energy and a few games trying to chase the elusive White Whale in Cintas. Question is, will Archie Miller be around for the long haul or was he just lying in wait this year because of the lack of marquee jobs becoming available?

[GoMuskies]

UC. And it is not particularly close.

[Xville]

Is this a joke? How old are you xville?

It's an opinion and just the way I feel. I don't think personal attacks are necessary here. I'm 32 bow and became a xavier fan my freshman year at x which was 2000. That may be the reason for my opinion, that and I don't live in cincy anymore so I don't have to deal with uc fans on a daily basis as many of you do

[kyxu]

UC

I rarely enjoyed playing UD. Beating them gave us nothing, and losing to them was a major letdown. You could set your watch to them losing to a Duquesne or Rhode Island, but the Flyers would look like the Heat when they played Xavier (I know this is a cliche).

A win over UC, on the other hand, is city bragging rights and is (generally) a good win for the RPI.

[RealDeal]

It's an opinion and just the way I feel. I don't think personal attacks are necessary here. I'm 32 bow and became a xavier fan my freshman year at x which was 2000. That may be the reason for my opinion, that and I don't live in cincy anymore so I don't have to deal with uc fans on a daily basis as many of you do

How is asking someone how old they are a personal attack?

[xubrew]

Hypothetically speaking, UC. It's a consistent tournament caliber team that's three miles away as opposed to an occasional tournament team that's an hour away.

But, realistically speaking, there is no reason we can't play both.

Dayton was an intriguing game for the fans, to the point that there is still an active thread dedicated to them on the smack board. They were also solid. They were an NIT team most of the time, and a fringe tournament team some of the time. They won 20+ games most of the time so they helped out the RPI. And, we won almost 75 percent of the time. Even when we didn't win, it never hurt us.

From 2006-07 up until 2012-13, we won 75% of the games against Dayton, were never seeded worse than #10th in the NCAA tournament (with the exception of that last year), only failed to make it past the round of 64 once, and only failed to make the Sweet Sixteen twice. So, even the one time out of four that Dayton did win, it didn't do anything to hurt us.

I think it's very easy to make the argument that playing a solid team that intrigues the fans, and that you beat most of the time, is a good game to have on the schedule. And, even if we didn't beat them, it wouldn't matter much. It never did before, and it would matter even less as an OOC game.

[bobbiemcgee]

UD fans all became BB experts after their 1st E8 run in 30 yrs. after finishing 6th in the A-10. If X was still in the A-10, they wouldn't have even made the Dance. They were ready to hang the coach in effigy 6 weeks before the A-10 Tournament. Now it's the greatest program on earth. They don't see the forest for the the trees. Give me UC any day.

[Emp]

Rhetorical question for anyone my age (Im freakin OLD). Younger grads not from Cinci, maybe not so much. Gimme the Cats every year.

[Milhouse]

Someone said it best: I enjoy beating UC more, but hate losing to UD more.

I'd rather feel better about winning than losing. I'll take UC any day of the week.

Although I have to be honest. I REALLY missed chanting Jimmy Carter this year.

[blueblood]

UC hands-down. That's an intra-city rivalry, whereas Dayton is just a local team that happens to be a better local rival than Miami.

[paulxu]

Brew, you made the same argument over there. I've got to trust our schedulers that it's not worth the effort to start it up. What is better? A road game at Dayton, or at Missouri? H/H's are for high majors. They're not coming just our place.

As to the choice between UC and UD, this should clear it up if you are relatively new to the series.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7547805/rivalry-week-brings-best-men-college-basketball

[Always Learning]

My choice is play the Pussycats. Beating them in any sport is fun, beating them in what they think is "their game" and the bitchin' afterwards" is priceless. Their pre-game yacking with Huggy was really fun, but Mic has taken it to a new level.
The ud crowd thinks (thought) they were out biggest rival. They never were. I'd favor playing them again, like every two-three years ... but ALWAYS at CINTAS. Make the offer, if they decline, then make it public that they don't want to play us.
They have made no bones about how Xavier and the Jesuits kept them out of the Big East, so live with it.
BTW, I found it absolutely hilarious that Mic wasn't at the Presser Monday, and his statement released from the University (not athletic department) was in essence "You will make no comments on your own."

[X-band '01]

Just remember if UD complains about Xavier playing the Big Brother card, ask them for tickets to the Gem City Classic against Wright State.

[PMI]

Cincinnati without question. I could care less if we ever play dayton again.

[xudash]

We now have this thing - The Crosstown Shootout - put back together and we otherwise recently learned that we'll be getting into a B1G v. BE game most of the time and probably against a respected opponent.

We don't need, nor have we ever needed UD.

More to the point, given that the XU/UC rivalry game is regarded as one of the top rivalry games in college basketball and that it will be featured during Rivalry Week next year, you don't throw that game away in favor of playing against a mid-major from a small television market.

[blobfan]

UC, for all the reasons covered by previous posters. That said, any time UD wants to come to Cincy and try to break the Jimmy Carter streak, I think we should make room in the schedule.

[Jehoya]

UC all the way, during my time at X I HATED UC..Each year only grew that hatred, for that week leading up to the game it's X vs the entire freaking city, the UC game is THE game on the schedule, you will never see Xavier students camping out to see X play Dayton..that being said the UD game was always fun and provided great memories but nothing on X's schedule compares or ever will compare to the UC game

[nuts4xu]

UC, for all the reasons covered by previous posters. That said, any time UD wants to come to Cincy and try to break the Jimmy Carter streak, I think we should make room in the schedule.

Yes, we can book them as a buy game and pay them $50k to come get their ass kicked. I have no problem with that.

[BandAid]

UC.

Every year I try to tell myself the game is not a big deal before the game.

Then there is the game. And I'm yelling at the tv. I'm pissed at the refs. I'm pissed at our players for small mistakes. I'm pissed at UC for being UC...I even do this when we're winning by 20!

Then after the game, regardless of outcome, I tell myself and everyone else that it's just a game...it's just a game...

but for some reason, it's not.

Definitely prefer to play UC. It's a bigger rivalry.

Yet, in an odd way I'd say I hate ud more, but that's not based on basketball. During ud games I maintain a rather light-hearted attitude. I think the "hatred" is based entirely on their fan base and their city.

[Kahns Krazy]

When Dayton was a conference game, that was a bigger game. Now they mean nothing. UC all the way, double rainbow.

[xubrew]

Brew, you made the same argument over there. I've got to trust our schedulers that it's not worth the effort to start it up. What is better? A road game at Dayton, or at Missouri? H/H's are for high majors. They're not coming just our place.

As to the choice between UC and UD, this should clear it up if you are relatively new to the series.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7547805/rivalry-week-brings-best-men-college-basketball

Again, within the hypothetical of Missouri or UD, I'd rather play Mizzou. (Although I don't think that'd be my answer of Haith was still there, because you can't really call any Frank Haith coached team "major.")

But, say neither XU or UD had finished their schedule and both are still looking for games?? What then?? Why would we not schedule them in that scenario??

As far as fan interest goes, UD, who we don't currently play, garners more attention than all of the OOC teams that we actually do play combined. This is one of two active threads that talks about a team we don't even play, and that we aren't going to play. It's kind of hard to argue that there is a lack of interest. People still read their board and post about it over here. Who read the Mizzou board today?? What are they saying about us?? Why aren't there multiple threads about Mizzou??

That's the fan interest part of it. Now, here is the quantitative part of it.

I would say they're a solid team. They're an NIT team that wins 20+ games most of the time, and an NCAA team some of the time, and they just made the Elite Eight (in the one year when we didn't play them). There is value to beating a team like that, and in the case of UD, we won the vast majority of the games.

Something else to consider is that after the NCAA Tournament field was announced, most people on here were flipping their shit. Well, whether or not you agree with how the committee does things, it's still to your benefit to do the things the committee rewards teams for doing. Look at all of the "overseeded" teams (and in most cases they were overseeded, but that's the point). Most of them played and won on the road, and in many cases they weren't against high majors. The precedent seems to be that you're only rewarded for winning away from home, and you're almost never punished for losing on the road. How else can BYU, SLU, UMass, (and really all six A10 teams), be explained??

Three out of the four #1 seeds played road games against non power teams. In the case of Virginia, they lost at Green Bay (who didn't even make the field), but still got a #1 seed because it seems as though the committee forgives road losses these days.

If there are teams that are overseeded, and that aren't as good as we think we are but are still getting better seeds, perhaps that's who we should play. If we beat them (which in the case of UD we've done most of the time), then it makes us look better. If we lose to them on the road, then it almost doesn't matter.

[xudash]

It's UC. There's no contest over this, again, if the question simply boils down to UC OR UD with no other conditions present.

However, on the comical end of things, I almost imagine I would pull harder for UD if only I paid more attention to the Blackburn Review guys, because they're truly objective and funny. Their "Overlords" term for Xavier cracks me up. Nonetheless, I made the mistake of visiting UDPride most of the time when I cared to visit a UD board. Stupidity, at that level, is almost an art form, it certainly is some kind of an achievement, but it is pitiful.

[xubrew]

This is beyond amusing.

Many on UC's board are furious about it returning to campus, and are saying they'd much rather play Dayton, and would just rather end the series with us.

So, we don't ever want to play Dayton again and would rather just play UC, UC doesn't want to play us anymore and would rather just play UD. I guess UD would be thrilled to get either XU or UC on the schedule, but currently doesn't play either of them.

....and there you have it.

[paulxu]

UC doesn't want to play us anymore and would rather just play UD.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 2 or 3 whack jobs on the UC chat board who don't want to play us...do not in fact represent the majority of UC fans (who I suspect are glad the rivalry game is continuing).

[OH.X.MI]

As to the choice between UC and UD, this should clear it up if you are relatively new to the series.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7547805/rivalry-week-brings-best-men-college-basketball

"This is the Golden Girls versus the Kardashians." What on earth is that quote supposed to mean? Are we the Golden Girls? Is UC the Karashians?

[GoMuskies]

Hopefully we're the Golden Girls. DFW would approve.

[Masterofreality]

The Borecats. F udump.

[xubrew]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 2 or 3 whack jobs on the UC chat board who don't want to play us...do not in fact represent the majority of UC fans (who I suspect are glad the rivalry game is continuing).

Well, I consider most message boards to be full of whack jobs, so you may be on to something. But, the majority of the posters aren't happy. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's the same reaction we'd get on this site if we announced a ten year deal with UD. Although, the difference between this and that is that we beat UD most of the time. I believe since Cintas has opened, UC has only won there once. In fact, going back to the Cincinnati Garden days, I think they only have one win at Xavier since the 95-96 season. So, I can see why the whack jobs would not be in favor.

Most fans probably are happy, but most fans don't post on message boards and aren't whack jobs.

[PMI]

Well, I consider most message boards to be full of whack jobs, so you may be on to something. But, the majority of the posters aren't happy. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's the same reaction we'd get on this site if we announced a ten year deal with UD. Although, the difference between this and that is that we beat UD most of the time. I believe since Cintas has opened, UC has only won there once. In fact, going back to the Cincinnati Garden days, I think they only have one win at Xavier since the 95-96 season. So, I can see why the whack jobs would not be in favor.

Most fans probably are happy, but most fans don't post on message boards and aren't whack jobs.

I disagree. The vast majority of people on this planet are whack jobs.

[Xville]

I gotta say I'm actually quite surprised everyone has picked uc here. Although, I'm guessing the majority here either lives or is from Cincinnati and grew up with the rivalry so that makes sense. Completely understand that. I think the reason I don't really care whether or not x ever played uc again is because I don't want uc to ever benefit from playing Xavier. Honestly, we are now big brother and I just want to tell uc fuck you we don't need you and take your now mid major program and kick rocks. That team fucked up what could have possibly been one of Xavier's best teams because they couldn't handle some shit talking after getting their asses handed to them. Fuck them.

[vee4xu]

Slam-dunk UC. Even when they're down, there is more to be gained on a local and national scale than if Xavier were to play Dayton.

The real irony that most Flyer fans are missing is that they seemed to be much more relaxed this season instead of wasting energy and a few games trying to chase the elusive White Whale in Cintas. Question is, will Archie Miller be around for the long haul or was he just lying in wait this year because of the lack of marquee jobs becoming available?

You do realize he shares DNA with the Desert Raccoon, don't you? That should be enough to answer your question.

[bobbiemcgee]

XVille - All I remember is they went to the S16 and lost to a very good Baylor team.

[Xville]

XVille - All I remember is they went to the S16 and lost to a very good Baylor team.

True but even still...they killed the mojo for so long and then the whole bs reflection session etc, the media crap all of that...fuck them

[Masterofreality]

I gotta say I'm actually quite surprised everyone has picked uc here. Although, I'm guessing the majority here either lives or is from Cincinnati and grew up with the rivalry so that makes sense. Completely understand that. I think the reason I don't really care whether or not x ever played uc again is because I don't want uc to ever benefit from playing Xavier. Honestly, we are now big brother and I just want to tell uc fuck you we don't need you and take your now mid major program and kick rocks. That team fucked up what could have possibly been one of Xavier's best teams because they couldn't handle some shit talking after getting their asses handed to them. Fuck them.

Why surprised?

I'm most assuredly not from Cincinnati, but I always appreciate a hate filled rivalry.

The next 10 years set up very favorably for Xavier...as favorably as the 1970's set up for SucKS. We can win the next 10 years in a row.

I cannot forget the years in the 1960's and 1970's when Xavier was dismissed and disrespected in Cincinnati. We were a toy for Clifton to play with. Now the sun is shining on a different dog's ass.

Ask this. Would North Carolina rather play Duke or NC State? Would Kentucky rather play Louisville or Indiana? I think we know the answer.

The Cryers are cockroaches. The Borecats are ogres. I'd rather beat ogres than stomp on cockroaches.

[Xville]

Why surprised?

I'm most assuredly not from Cincinnati, but I always appreciate a hate filled rivalry.

The next 10 years set up very favorably for Xavier...as favorably as the 1970's set up for SucKS. We can win the next 10 years in a row.

I cannot forget the years in the 1960's and 1970's when Xavier was dismissed and disrespected in Cincinnati. We were a toy for Clifton to play with. Now the sun is shining on a different dog's ass.

Ask this. Would North Carolina rather play Duke or NC State? Would Kentucky rather play Louisville or Indiana? I think we know the answer.

The Cryers are cockroaches. The Borecats are ogres. I'd rather beat ogres than stomp on cockroaches.

I get what you are saying but let's not confuse uc with duke or Louisville...frankly I think the ogre statement is telling and the mindset that Xavier needs to get away from. This isn't the 80s anymore. We are not little brother that needs to play and beat uc for respect. Uc is in the American...yes it has the national champion in the conference I get that but at worst we are on a level playing field with them and I think in a better situation than they are. I think the ultimate drop the mic move would be to hold a presser and give the big middle finger to uc and say we are done playing with you.

[xalltheway]

I gotta say I'm actually quite surprised everyone has picked uc here. Although, I'm guessing the majority here either lives or is from Cincinnati and grew up with the rivalry so that makes sense. Completely understand that. I think the reason I don't really care whether or not x ever played uc again is because I don't want uc to ever benefit from playing Xavier. Honestly, we are now big brother and I just want to tell uc fuck you we don't need you and take your now mid major program and kick rocks. That team fucked up what could have possibly been one of Xavier's best teams because they couldn't handle some shit talking after getting their asses handed to them. Fuck them. We're the big brother? Let's not get ahead of ourselves if you're talking all-time.

[gladdenguy]

I gotta say I'm actually quite surprised everyone has picked uc here. Although, I'm guessing the majority here either lives or is from Cincinnati and grew up with the rivalry so that makes sense. Completely understand that. I think the reason I don't really care whether or not x ever played uc again is because I don't want uc to ever benefit from playing Xavier. Honestly, we are now big brother and I just want to tell uc fuck you we don't need you and take your now mid major program and kick rocks. That team fucked up what could have possibly been one of Xavier's best teams because they couldn't handle some shit talking after getting their asses handed to them. Fuck them.

I would love that too but we need to keep that game for non conference SOS. As much as I hate the game and get bent out of shape IF they beat us......it is a quality game.....that last year if we don't have we don't go to the tourney. Dayton, on the other hand, most often than not is an average game at best on the non conference slate.

[gladdenguy]

We're the big brother? Let's not get ahead of ourselves if you're talking all-time.

Who cares about all-time....I could care less what happened a long time ago. Xavier is 12-6 in the last 18 games. We play in the Big East. They play in a mid major conference. We have better facilities and better fans and have won double the NCAA tourney games after the turn of the century. Yes, Xavier is big brother this century. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[xalltheway]

Who cares about all-time....I could care less what happened a long time ago. Xavier is 12-6 in the last 18 games. We play in the Big East. They play in a mid major conference. We have better facilities and better fans and have won double the NCAA tourney games after the turn of the century. Yes, Xavier is big brother this century. And I don't see that changing anytime soon. Yes I agree last 30 years we are the better program by far.

[bobbiemcgee]

UD won a bunch of games when everybody shot underhand. Never really thought of them as a rival, just somebody we should never lose too.

[xubrew]

I gotta say I'm actually quite surprised everyone has picked uc here. Although, I'm guessing the majority here either lives or is from Cincinnati and grew up with the rivalry so that makes sense. Completely understand that. I think the reason I don't really care whether or not x ever played uc again is because I don't want uc to ever benefit from playing Xavier. Honestly, we are now big brother and I just want to tell uc fuck you we don't need you and take your now mid major program and kick rocks. That team fucked up what could have possibly been one of Xavier's best teams because they couldn't handle some shit talking after getting their asses handed to them. Fuck them.

I don't think UC really benefited from the game the last two years. We missed the NIT two years ago, and we beat the crap out of them a year ago. It benefits us. Who cares if it also benefits them as well?? Being concerned that a team will benefit from playing us is a dumb reason to not schedule them.

There seems to be a thought process that playing rivalry games, or playing lower caliber regional opponents, somehow lessens your program while legitimizing other programs. People have said they didn't want to play UD for that reason, and you're saying that about not wanting to play UC. I really don't believe this to be true. In fact, head to head competition in and of itself does very little to influence the national perception in games like that. Not that long ago, there was an eight year stretch where Northern Iowa actually had a winning record against both Iowa and Iowa State. I'm sure that was fun for Northern Iowa fans, but no one ever really thought Northern Iowa was the alpha program in those series. National rankings and NCAA Tournament success are what shapes your perception. Most people outside of Iowa probably didn't even realize Northern Iowa had won all those games, and even if they did, they wouldn't think of Northern Iowa as the dominant program. They'd just think of them as a solid mid-major who was able to get up for games against Iowa and Iowa State.

Had Green Bay beaten Wisconsin this year, no one would have remembered after the month of November, and no one would have thought of them as suddenly being the better program. Even if Green Bay were to win ten years in a row, people still wouldn't feel that way if they weren't finishing higher in the rankings and going further in the tournament.

Also, not playing them doesn't prevent them from building their program. Butler's run of being in the rankings and making NCAA Tournaments began after Indiana and Purdue stopped playing them regularly. They were able to grow their profile without even playing the top programs in the state.

So, I say lets play UC, and Dayton, and Ohio in some years, and Wright State in some years. It doesn't hurt. It's a winnable road game that does help us both on paper and off paper if we win, but really doesn't hurt us if we lose. By the time conference play starts, no one outside of southern Ohio will even care what we did in an early season OOC game.

[Section 200]

Does anybody know if the reason that XU and UD aren't playing is XU? Everyone seems to assume that XU ended the series, but maybe it was UD or perhaps mutual? If we had a losing streak to someone we played every year back to 1980 or so I'd think I want to get out of that arrangement.

If we have to pick one team, obviously it is UC. It's like asking OSU if they want Michigan or Illinois.

[nuts4xu]

Does anybody know if the reason that XU and UD aren't playing is XU?

I asked Greg Christopher directly if we will have dayton on the schedule, and he said he would be willing to let them come to our place. But there is no reason to play them at their place.

I realize he could very well be telling me what he thinks I want to hear, but I don't believe I am the only person he told this to. I honestly think he, Mario, and Coach Mack are more interested in other match ups. dayton is not very high on anyone's list.

[Xville]

I don't think UC really benefited from the game the last two years. We missed the NIT two years ago, and we beat the crap out of them a year ago. It benefits us. Who cares if it also benefits them as well?? Being concerned that a team will benefit from playing us is a dumb reason to not schedule them.

There seems to be a thought process that playing rivalry games, or playing lower caliber regional opponents, somehow lessens your program while legitimizing other programs. People have said they didn't want to play UD for that reason, and you're saying that about not wanting to play UC. I really don't believe this to be true. In fact, head to head competition in and of itself does very little to influence the national perception in games like that. Not that long ago, there was an eight year stretch where Northern Iowa actually had a winning record against both Iowa and Iowa State. I'm sure that was fun for Northern Iowa fans, but no one ever really thought Northern Iowa was the alpha program in those series. National rankings and NCAA Tournament success are what shapes your perception. Most people outside of Iowa probably didn't even realize Northern Iowa had won all those games, and even if they did, they wouldn't think of Northern Iowa as the dominant program. They'd just think of them as a solid mid-major who was able to get up for games against Iowa and Iowa State.

Had Green Bay beaten Wisconsin this year, no one would have remembered after the month of November, and no one would have thought of them as suddenly being the better program. Even if Green Bay were to win ten years in a row, people still wouldn't feel that way if they weren't finishing higher in the rankings and going further in the tournament.

Also, not playing them doesn't prevent them from building their program. Butler's run of being in the rankings and making NCAA Tournaments began after Indiana and Purdue stopped playing them regularly. They were able to grow their profile without even playing the top programs in the state.

So, I say lets play UC, and Dayton, and Ohio in some years, and Wright State in some years. It doesn't hurt. It's a winnable road game that does help us both on paper and off paper if we win, but really doesn't hurt us if we lose. By the time conference play starts, no one outside of southern Ohio will even care what we did in an early season OOC game.

I think you misunderstood what i was trying to say. In reference to uc benefitting from the game i didn't mean the program itself, I just meant playing the game, because it would give uc a better rpi,sos, and a good non conference game things they now need for tourney purposes based on the conference they are in.

[Masterofreality]

So, I say lets play UC, and Dayton, and Ohio in some years, and Wright State in some years. It doesn't hurt. It's a winnable road game that does help us both on paper and off paper if we win, but really doesn't hurt us if we lose. By the time conference play starts, no one outside of southern Ohio will even care what we did in an early season OOC game.

You should be preaching to Ohio State, Brew. They are the biggest offender of not scheduling anyone who is any good nearby in the state. They are the height of arrogance when it comes to this sort of thing.

Ohio is the second biggest attendance state in college basketball...and it is abjectly ludicrous that the Luckeyes refuse to play Xavier, SucKS and udump - EVER. Xavier may not play the Cryers now, but we certainly don't duck other in-state schools. To me, playing the dump right now is no different than playing Miami. At home? Ok, but why otherwise?

[Milhouse]

We're the big brother? Let's not get ahead of ourselves if you're talking all-time.

Whenever my UC friends point this out I love to point out that Miami leads them all time in Football so clearly that's a good argument.

[XUFan09]

You should be preaching to Ohio State, Brew. They are the biggest offender of not scheduling anyone who is any good nearby in the state. They are the height of arrogance when it comes to this sort of thing.

Ohio is the second biggest attendance state in college basketball...and it is abjectly ludicrous that the Luckeyes refuse to play Xavier, SucKS and udump - EVER. Xavier may not play the Cryers now, but we certainly don't duck other in-state schools. To me, playing the dump right now is no different than playing Miami. At home? Ok, but why otherwise?

Playing them on the road is actually better than playing them at home, because they usually aren't good enough to be any more than a decent home game (if that), but that translates to a very good road game that is also winnable. A win at UD Arena would definitely look good on the tournament resume, and a loss would easily be forgiven.

[Fireball]

In my opinion we should be playing both. X has so much of a history and a true rivalry with both schools, that it's a shame we can't find room for UD on the schedule. I understand the reasons for not playing the game from Xavier's end, but I would still like to see UD still on the schedule.

That being said, if we're picking one or the other, I pick UC. That game is better for our schedule and is so important to Cincinnati. The game isn't what it once was, but X and UC have not been both quality teams as much recently as they both were when the rivalry was most heated. With both teams on the upswing, I think we'll see the game start to become more of an event again.

[xubrew]

You should be preaching to Ohio State, Brew. They are the biggest offender of not scheduling anyone who is any good nearby in the state. They are the height of arrogance when it comes to this sort of thing.

Ohio is the second biggest attendance state in college basketball...and it is abjectly ludicrous that the Luckeyes refuse to play Xavier, SucKS and udump - EVER. Xavier may not play the Cryers now, but we certainly don't duck other in-state schools. To me, playing the dump right now is no different than playing Miami. At home? Ok, but why otherwise?

What's funny is that there are people at Ohio State that agree with me, but it's over their heads. They've struggled to win on the road for the first half of conference play the last couple years, and fans want to see them play the in-state teams.

The thinking is that if you can go on the road and play a team that is really gunning for you early in the year, it is the perfect tune up for conference play. It's oftentimes a winnable road game, but if they lose, it can still be a learning experience. At worst, there is no distinction in regards to overall success or perception between teams that do go on the road and play regional opponents, and teams that don't.

And, whether it makes sense or not, or whether you think it should happen or not, it is happening. The committee seems to favor teams the teams that do it. I know they're not a super high major, but BYU plays Weber State home and home, and Utah State on a neutral floor (used to be home and home). They were the most egregiously overseeded team. Most of the overseeded teams in recent years seem to play those types of games. Ohio State, on the other hand, was given a #6 seed despite many thinking they were better than that. Hilariously enough, they were paired against one of the in-state teams that they didn't play, and lost to them. For a school that likes to assert itself as the alpha program, that certainly didn't look good and get them chided in all kinds of ways. Way more than losing a game like that early in the season ever would have.

Believe it or not (and many probably won't), I strongly believe there are people close to Ohio State that have noticed that, but they're just not high enough up the ladder to make that call.

[GoMuskies]

What I'm hearing from 'brew is that Wellman and the Committee are completely incompetent.

[xubrew]

What I'm hearing from 'brew is that Wellman and the Committee are completely incompetent.

Yep. I thought this year's was particularly stupid because they didn't seem to give anyone any credit for anything they did at home. I'm all for rewarding road wins, but they took it to a ridiculous extreme.

[xudash]

Whenever my UC friends point this out I love to point out that Miami leads them all time in Football so clearly that's a good argument.

Ha! Didn't know that. Thanks for that little tidbit.

[GoMuskies]

Xavier owns Louisville 13-0 in football and always will. There's a completely irrelevant tidbit that I love.

[barrack 9]

Yes, XU even beat Louisville when Johnny Unitas QB' d them.

[xubrew]

They rarely play, but Xavier has beaten Louisville the last several times they've played in basketball as well.

It's entirely selfish because I grew up in Louisville, but given the choice of a home and home with Louisville vs UC or UD (or probably even both), or Ohio State, I'd pick the H/H with Louisville.

I know it's an unrealistic hypothetical, but many hypotheticals are.

[Always Learning]

Just remember if UD complains about Xavier playing the Big Brother card, ask them for tickets to the Gem City Classic against Wright State.

Just to really burn their ass, schedule Wright State ... in Dayton ... and make it a date when ud is at home against some cupcake. For a week, we'd own the Dayton media!

[blobfan]

Playing them on the road is actually better than playing them at home, because they usually aren't good enough to be any more than a decent home game (if that), but that translates to a very good road game that is also winnable. A win at UD Arena would definitely look good on the tournament resume, and a loss would easily be forgiven.

Has UD ever really been good enough to help us as a road game? At best they don't drag us down. Throw in all the intangibles and I have no problem refusing to go back up there, at least until they know how to treat their own alumni right. I see no reason to return during the Mack era.

[xubrew]

Just to really burn their ass, schedule Wright State ... in Dayton ... and make it a date when ud is at home against some cupcake. For a week, we'd own the Dayton media!

I wouldn't mind doing that anyway. Burning UD would just be a bonus.

[Xville]

Has UD ever really been good enough to help us as a road game? At best they don't drag us down. Throw in all the intangibles and I have no problem refusing to go back up there, at least until they know how to treat their own alumni right. I see no reason to return during the Mack era.

you know i completely forgot about that whole fiasco. I wonder if that is a big part as to why Xavier has not even seemed to entertain the idea of playing them.

[xubrew]

Has UD ever really been good enough to help us as a road game? At best they don't drag us down. Throw in all the intangibles and I have no problem refusing to go back up there, at least until they know how to treat their own alumni right. I see no reason to return during the Mack era.

As far as the committee is concerned, it would be a good road game every year. They've been hugely over-rewarding road wins of any kind.

I don't think it would be hard to convince anyone on here that UMass was overseeded this past year. They won at Eastern Michigan, who wasn't that good but was 13-3 at home. They also won at Ohio, and at Elon, who wasn't good (at least not by NCAA standards) but was 9-3 at home. They'll reward teams for playing and winning on the road, even if they're winning against teams that aren't tournament teams, but that play well at home.

In terms of the RPI, any road win is worth over twice as much as a home win, but more importantly it seems to be what the committee wants to see. On top of that, they don't appear to punish teams that much who lose on the road.

People are probably tired of hearing me say it, but it's the truth. If you want to impress the committee, then the best way to do it is to win on the road. It appears be a low risk/high reward proposition these days. So, playing at Dayton would certainly be good in just about any given year.

[nuts4xu]

you know i completely forgot about that whole fiasco. I wonder if that is a big part as to why Xavier has not even seemed to entertain the idea of playing them.

I sincerely doubt it played any role at all in the reasons we have not scheduled ud. Christi Mack was inducted to their HOF this year, and without incident. Chris Mack has a longer history as a ud hater, and has plenty of reasons of his own if he wants to hold a grudge.

We have nothing to gain by playing them. I am fine if the game is scheduled somewhere down the road, but I believe the only way we play them again in the near future is if they are invited to the Big East.

[nuts4xu]

People are probably tired of hearing me say it, but it's the truth. If you want to impress the committee, then the best way to do it is to win on the road. It appears be a low risk/high reward proposition these days. So, playing at Dayton would certainly be good in just about any given year.

I can't argue with you brew, you and the committee both have made it clear road wins are valued more than home games. But we can find a better road game to play instead of dayton.

[PM Thor]

I'll keep this simple. IF I had to choose, it will always be UC. Always. I hope we never play dayton again. Ever.

[GoMuskies]

I don't really understand posts from PM Thor anymore. They just seem naked.

[blobfan]

I can't argue with you brew, you and the committee both have made it clear road wins are valued more than home games. But we can find a better road game to play instead of dayton.

Exactly. They may be a decent away win but I don't think it would be a neutral loss. Since 2001 we've won 40% of the games we played there. Given the streak, we get no credit for beating them at home and could be penalized for losing away. Why make the trip?

[blobfan]

I don't really understand posts from PM Thor anymore. They just seem naked.

So that's a no vote for naked Thor?

[XUFan09]

And even if the Committee hadn't reached the level of obsession with road games, Dayton would still be a much better to play on the road. They usually fall into the RPI 50 to 100 range. That isn't worth much as a home win, particularly at the lower end, while a loss wouldn't look good (not that UD could possibly win at Cintas). That same RPI range, though, makes for a really good to solid win on the road, while a loss is easily forgiven.

So really, it's at home where Xavier has nothing to gain from playing UD, as they usually don't finish in the top 50 of RPI where it really starts to benefit Xavier.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[PM Thor]

So that's a no vote for naked Thor?

Have the house to myself tonight, so you guys get pantsless Thor. You are welcome.

[paulxu]

Well, if the committee wants road wins, we've already got 3 times as many road games scheduled as last year, and Mario's looking for a 4th.

[XUFan09]

Well, if the committee wants road wins, we've already got 3 times as many road games scheduled as last year, and Mario's looking for a 4th.

Yup, it's nice to see. Cincinnati will obviously be a tough game, but Wake Forest and Mizzou should be winnable games. I just hope they don't absolutely suck due to the coaching changes, as we could really use them staying in the top 100 of RPI. Alabama didn't help us out much at all after they fell apart in the SEC. It was annoying because they were clearly better at the time they played us than later on. Maybe losing so many close games just finally knocked the wind out of them.

[X-band '01]

Have the house to myself tonight, so you guys get pantsless Thor. You are welcome.

Ghost of NoPants

[xubrew]

I like the exempt tournament idea.

You can play up to four games so long as it is within twelve days, and if all the teams are in different conferences. What we're seeing a lot of now is teams collectively scheduling each other and calling it an exempt tournament. UC did this last year with NC State, Campbell, NCCU and I forget who else.

UC, UD, Xavier, Wright State and Miami are all in different leagues. If all those teams scheduled each other within twelve days, we could count it as an exempt tournament, and get a few more games on the schedule. You don't have to bracket it. You don't have to play at neutral sites. It just has to be teams from different conferences, and the games have to be played within twelve days.

As far as Maui, the Old Spice, and all those other tournaments go, we could still play in them. There is no rule that says you can't play in more than one. it's just that the years we were in those, we could only count one of the tournaments as exempt. The other would just be regular OOC games.

[XUFan09]

I really don't find playing Miami or Wright State that appealing. Wright State hasn't been in the Kenpom top 100 in years, and Miami is even worse. If they were middling CBI/CIT-level programs, it would be one thing, but they simply suck.

[xubrew]

I really don't find playing Miami or Wright State that appealing. Wright State hasn't been in the Kenpom top 100 in years, and Miami is even worse. If they were middling CBI/CIT-level programs, it would be one thing, but they simply suck.

I'm not a huge fan of them either. I have a big rooting interest in Wright State, but I can't say I see much value in their program right now. It's just the idea of getting an exempt tournament so we can have 31 games every year, and if we're gonna do it, why not make it the Miami Valley Shootout? (or whatever lame name we want to come up with). I'd rather play Ohio State and Ohio, but Ohio State would never go for that and I don't know if Ohio is considered a member of the mythical Miami Valley Conference.

[toledodan]

set the schedule up where we play ud at our place the years we play uc on the road. then the next year we play ud on the road and uc at home.

[muskiefan82]

IF, and it's a big if, X finds itself in a situation where they are not playing in an exempt tournament, then someone should stage a one-time, battle of the Ohio River with X, UC, Louisville, Pitt, and either NKU/Evansville as the "patsy" team.

[xubrew]

You can be in more than one exempt tournament. You just have to count the games for one of them as regular OOC games instead of exempt games. UC, Pitt, Louisville and Xavier probably wouldn't have too much of an issue playing each other home and home in a regular OOC series anyway, so if they could do it in a way that counted as an exempt tournament, even better. Just throw in NKU as a buy game for everyone, play all the games within twelve days in back to back years, and call it an exempt tournament.

If we're not in another exempt tournament, then great. We get to schedule a few extra games. If we are in another exempt tournament, then great. We'll just count these four as regular OOC games, which shouldn't be that big of a deal.

[xubrew]

Louisville and Pitt are both in the ACC. So, that wouldn't work.

I'm not used to that yet.

[muskiefan82]

Louisville and Pitt are both in the ACC. So, that wouldn't work.

I'm not used to that yet.

Well....there has to be a way around that WITHOUT adding Duquesne or Robert Morris instead.

[xubrew]

Reroute the Ohio River through Lexington and invite Kentucky as well.

Everyone needs to go out and get their shovels. We've got work to do.

[xu82]

Reroute the Ohio River through Lexington and invite Kentucky as well.

Everyone needs to go out and get their shovels. We've got work to do.

Nice plan.... but you may have slightly over-estimated our ambition level. I'm too lazy to go out and buy the shovel. In case you haven't noticed, most of us just sit around and post here all day. We're going to need some act of God. Let's just say a prayer for that between posts. More my style.

[muskiefan82]

Instead, we will just have to make the leap that since the Ohio River touches West Virginia, that they can join the party too.

[GoMuskies]

Add Marshall. The D'Antoni situation should make them comical if nothing else.

[xu82]

Instead, we will just have to make the leap that since the Ohio River touches West Virginia, that they can join the party too.

There you go! Leap made. No one broke a sweat, no sore backs. I like the way you think. (Old guys think alike, I guess.)