PDA

View Full Version : History of College Basketball??



xubrew
05-02-2014, 01:29 PM
I've become very interested, and curious, about the history of college basketball. The more interested I become, the more I realize that there just isn't much out there. At least if there is, I haven't found it yet.

This is a book that chronicles the history of college football from the first game in 1869 all the way up until ten years ago (when it was written), and I thought it was quite good and very interesting. I'd love to find something similar on the history of college basketball, but have not been able to.

http://www.amazon.com/College-Football-History-Spectacle-Controversy/dp/080187114X

I read "How March Became Madness," was put together by Eddie Einhorn. I thought it was going to be about the history of the NCAA Tournament, and I was particularly interested in it between the time it started in 1939 all the way up to 1979 when they began seeding the teams, but it wasn't like that at all. It was basically just a collection of essays from different players, commentators, writers and coaches. It was good for what it was, but it just wasn't what I was looking for.

I really don't know much other than the basic trivia.

-The longest running tournament that's still around today is the Southern Conference Tournament, which began in 1921.
-The NIT started in 1938, which was one year prior to the NCAA Tournament. The NABC wanted to start a tournament, but couldn't get it organized.
-At first, the NIT Tournament was played after the NCAA Tournament, and teams could actually play in both. The NIT winner was actually considered to be bigger because if the NCAA Tournament winner played and lost in the NIT, they suddenly weren't considered to be the best team anymore.
-In 1952, the NCAA was after the NIT, and the championship game was a rematch of the NIT Championship. This is when many people believe the NCAA became the bigger tournament.
-They started taking at-larges and seeding it in the late 1970s.
-UCLA played Houston in the Astrodome in 1968. There were over 50k people there, and the game aired in prime time and earned huge ratings. Many feel this is the moment college basketball became a major sport.
-TVS (whatever that was) would air one game a week (and on rare occasions two), which was normally a showcase game between highly ranked teams. This began either in the late 60s or early 70s. The games got big ratings, but largely because if you wanted to watch basketball, you had no other choice of games to watch. Most of the games featured UCLA, and the storyline was "Can UCLA's opponents upset UCLA??"
-CBS got the tournament in 1981 and turned it into a showcase.

That's really about it. I'd really like to get an idea, or find a book or documentary, that depicts what college basketball has been like throughout it's history.

The impression I'm under (and it could be wrong) is that college basketball was extremely popular in certain regional circles (NYC, Philly, Kentucky, Kansas, LA, etc), but wasn't a major sport nationally prior to CBS getting the tournament. It was kind of the perfect storm. In 1981, I think there were three buzzer beaters on the same day. In 1982, they had the Georgetown vs UNC final, and the Final Four that sold out the Superdome, and in 1983 it was Houston's Phi Slamma Jamma being a popular team to watch all year, and then losing to NC State who went on a huge run. By the time all that was over, college basketball was a major sport in America. It may have been a major sport prior to that, but it was definitely major after that. At least that's my impression. I can't say I lived through it.

Who was in charge of bracketing the tournament back in the 1940s, 50s and 60s??

What was it's popularity throughout it's history, especially prior to TV making it as popular as it eventually became??

What was the tournament like prior to CBS picking it up?? Were there office pools?? Did people even watch it??

You look at the ratings in the 70s, and they were huge, but there were also far fewer channels, so all ratings were huge compared to any program that's on today. So, was it actually as popular as the ratings indicate??

I know some of you lived through this. I'd be curious to learn what your thoughts are, if you have any. I'd also like to find a really good chronicled history, if there is one out there that exists.

drudy23
05-02-2014, 01:41 PM
Sounds like your million dollar opportunity.

xudash
05-02-2014, 03:34 PM
What was the tournament like prior to CBS picking it up?? Were there office pools?? Did people even watch it??

A quick response to this:

The Tournament prior to CBS picking it up was very strong. NBC carried it. Dick Enberg, Billy Packer and Al McGuire were the team, and they were very, very, very strong. This was before Packer woke up one day and considered himself worthy of British knighthood.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2000-02-04/sports/0002040082_1_al-mcguire-billy-packer-mcguire-and-packer

I remember sitting in Barlycorns (sp) in downtown Cincinnati, watching Marquette win the National Championship in 1977. I remember college basketball being very big then. I believe the Wooden teams and television in general helped it along as television, in particular, helped a number of sports along.

Mel Cooley XU'81
05-02-2014, 05:02 PM
I grew up in a sports minded household and figured out what college basketball was in the late 60s.

In the late 60s, early 70s college basketball was:


UCLA kicking everybody's ass all the time.
Weird, upstart programs taking runs at them: Jacksonville (Artis Gilmore); Memphis (Larry Kenon)
Notre Dame ending UCLAs 70-odd game winning streak (Austin Carr, on a Saturday afternoon; really cold outside)
Pete Maravich was a Big Damn Deal
OSU getting beaten up by Minnesota in a huge brawl in MSP in '70 or so.


It started changing when UCLA lost its grip on winning every year.

That's when Dash's story begins. More winning teams in different parts of the country started the fire.

Al McGuire actually WINNING IT ALL one year was a big deal. He was Mr. Charisma. A template for the celebrity coaches and commentators of today. His estate should be getting paid.

TV took off the threads came together: more, different winning teams, McGuire's broadcasting -- this cannot be overstated: he TAUGHT the country how to watch a game on TV. Put expressions like "TV timeout" and "aircraft carrier" into the language.

DePaul and Ray Meyer made a difference at this time, too. They were actually confused with DePauw when they arrived on the scene (and probably couln't beat them today). The idea got loose that if DePaul could be a national sensation, anybody could be. If McGuire's Marquette could win a championship, why couldn't . . . Xavier.

THEN you had Magic and Bird and that was the flashpoint. No turning back.

As for brackets: geek fans could fill them out, but they weren't a cultural phenomenon (there were no office brackets) until the 80s . . . Network TV, Big East, ESPN.

You youngsters reading this thread: it was BASEBALL back then, followed by football. Imagine a baseball game on Saturday afternoon; a football game on Sunday afternoon (not your home team -- they were blacked out). Hockey every other week in the O6 markets; an NBA game on the weekends during the playoffs: NBA playoff games played delayed, after the news when Magic Johnson won his first title in LA; a college basketball game or two on the weekends: the Big 10 in the midwest. Grainy local sports on "UHF TV". 4 minutes of sports on the local news. You knew what you knew from the newspaper: every house had one delivered (inside the screen door) in the morning and one in the afternoon (under the welcome mat). No internet.

If your LOCAL pro team won a title, sports were a big deal. Nothing else got a helluva lot of attention -- except from geeks like us.

Things change.

Masterofreality
05-02-2014, 05:48 PM
Starting in 1960, SucKS with Oscar Robertson and Ohio State with Jerry Lucas pretty much dominated the College game for 3 years. The Borecats won 2 and The Luckeyes won 1 and they played each other. Those Tournaments were where attendance began to really pick up. YOUR Loyola of Chicago Ramblers won the Tournament over the Borecats in 1963 and after that, other than the famous Texas Western over Kentucky game in 1966, and 1974 with NC State, UCLA dominated, winning every single tournament between 1964 and 1975.

Prior to 1960, the major players in the game were The Big 10 and Big 8 conferences (Kansas and OK State), Kentucky, and the Catholic schools including places like Xavier, udump, St. Bonny, Niagara, LaSalle, Providence, St. John's, Loyola etc. because they were places that welcomed Black basketball student athletes. The SEC and the western schools were irrelevant, mainly because Blacks were not recruited or even welcomed. The ACC with NC and Duke were at times relevant, but also lacked the black player until the late 1960's.

danaandvictory
05-02-2014, 06:16 PM
The Game They Played by Stanley Cohen is a good exploration of college hoops in NYC in the 40s and 50s, including the CCNY grand slam and scandals.

I would love to know if there is a history that tracks the rule changes in the game through the years, as there have been some interesting experiments and innovations.

xu82
05-02-2014, 06:34 PM
I grew up in a sports minded household and figured out what college basketball was in the late 60s.

In the late 60s, early 70s college basketball was:


UCLA kicking everybody's ass all the time.
Weird, upstart programs taking runs at them: Jacksonville (Artis Gilmore); Memphis (Larry Kenon)
Notre Dame ending UCLAs 70-odd game winning streak (Austin Carr, on a Saturday afternoon; really cold outside)
Pete Maravich was a Big Damn Deal
OSU getting beaten up by Minnesota in a huge brawl in MSP in '70 or so.


It started changing when UCLA lost its grip on winning every year.

That's when Dash's story begins. More winning teams in different parts of the country started the fire.

Al McGuire actually WINNING IT ALL one year was a big deal. He was Mr. Charisma. A template for the celebrity coaches and commentators of today. His estate should be getting paid.

TV took off the threads came together: more, different winning teams, McGuire's broadcasting -- this cannot be overstated: he TAUGHT the country how to watch a game on TV. Put expressions like "TV timeout" and "aircraft carrier" into the language.

DePaul and Ray Meyer made a difference at this time, too. They were actually confused with DePauw when they arrived on the scene (and probably couln't beat them today). The idea got loose that if DePaul could be a national sensation, anybody could be. If McGuire's Marquette could win a championship, why couldn't . . . Xavier.

THEN you had Magic and Bird and that was the flashpoint. No turning back.

As for brackets: geek fans could fill them out, but they weren't a cultural phenomenon (there were no office brackets) until the 80s . . . Network TV, Big East, ESPN.

You youngsters reading this thread: it was BASEBALL back then, followed by football. Imagine a baseball game on Saturday afternoon; a football game on Sunday afternoon (not your home team -- they were blacked out). Hockey every other week in the O6 markets; an NBA game on the weekends during the playoffs: NBA playoff games played delayed, after the news when Magic Johnson won his first title in LA; a college basketball game or two on the weekends: the Big 10 in the midwest. Grainy local sports on "UHF TV". 4 minutes of sports on the local news. You knew what you knew from the newspaper: every house had one delivered (inside the screen door) in the morning and one in the afternoon (under the welcome mat). No internet.

If your LOCAL pro team won a title, sports were a big deal. Nothing else got a helluva lot of attention -- except from geeks like us.

Things change.

Wow! Well done, I felt like I just got another email from my mother with pictures of a milk man!

Masterofreality
05-02-2014, 08:25 PM
Oh, yeah.......

What Mel said............

paulxu
05-02-2014, 09:08 PM
OSU getting beaten up by Minnesota in a huge brawl in MSP in '70 or so.

You've got a guy getting fouled, opposing player gives him a hand up/then knees him the balls, and then another guy stomps his head while he's down.
Sound familiar?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XM3HlE9yPPs

xu82
05-02-2014, 09:17 PM
We used to leave a Buffalo Braves NBA night game and they were selling morning papers in the lobby heading out. My, how the world has changed. What will our kids see? The arc on the graph of technological advancement is skyrocketing. As is the natural physical ability of the players today (trying to get back on track - sorry, but I blame Mel for inspiring me).

Masterofreality
05-03-2014, 06:30 AM
You've got a guy getting fouled, opposing player gives him a hand up/then knees him the balls, and then another guy stomps his head while he's down.
Sound familiar?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XM3HlE9yPPs

Key names in that brawl...Dave Winfield, Corky Taylor Coach Bill Musselman for Minnesota and Luke Witte for Ohio State.