Donald Sterling banned for life

[nuts4xu]

Adam Silver did an outstanding job in the press conference. He set the tone for his tenure as NBA commish, and it will be interesting to see how easily Sterling leaves his post as owner of the Clippers.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/10857580/donald-sterling-los-angeles-clippers-owner-receives-life-ban-nba

[GoMuskies]

Is this a complete overreaction to what Sterling said? I'm not endorsing what he said, of course, but is it really worthy of a lifetime ban? If he hadn't have been such an awful owner otherwise, would this have happened to Sterling? I get that for the NBA it's more important than it may be for some other businesses to be clear that they will not tolerate discrimination against blacks.

I know I have my biases and prejudices, but I'd certainly like to think that I'm not racist. But is being racist actually the worst thing in the world? These days, it seems like it is.

[nuts4xu]

The NBA didn't have much of a choice. They had to make a statement, and that is exactly what they did. The overwhelming majority of the NBA is black, and it would have been a slap in to the face to the league employees if they didn't come down hard on Sterling.

[chico]

I tend to think this is a sort of lifetime achievement award based on Sterling's history. If this was his first offense he probably would have been suspended for a year or so and fined. I'm sure part of it was also the fact that he is such a terrible owner and they wanted him out.

I also agree that the NBA has to be more sensitive to this sort of thing than other major sports. And I also agree that society is much, much more sensitive to this sort of thing than it used to be, which is not necessarily a good thing.

[Milhouse]

Probably one of the biggest "events" to happen in the past 20 years at least, thought Sterling did a great job especially considering he's only been in the job several months.

[GoMuskies]

thought Sterling did a great job

Racist! :)

[BandAid]

Ban Hammer!

[Juice]

Is this a complete overreaction to what Sterling said? I'm not endorsing what he said, of course, but is it really worthy of a lifetime ban? If he hadn't have been such an awful owner otherwise, would this have happened to Sterling? I get that for the NBA it's more important than it may be for some other businesses to be clear that they will not tolerate discrimination against blacks.

I know I have my biases and prejudices, but I'd certainly like to think that I'm not racist. But is being racist actually the worst thing in the world? These days, it seems like it is.

He was guilty of much worse in the past. So I'm not sure why all of a sudden this was the straw that broke the camel's back but it's a good thing in the end.

[HuskyMuskie]

In his defense Sterling and Silver do seem to go hand in hand...

[PMI]

Donald Sterling is a racist asshole and a terrible owner, and the association is surely better off without him. But expelling someone for what they think or say in a private conversation is a hell of a precedent to set. I can't pity the guy by any means, but I don't know if I feel comfortable saying they made the "only correct call." I agree with Mark Cuban's take on this. It's a slippery slope. If there's one lesson I'm taking away, it's that after I win the lottery and become a multi-millionaire and pro sports owner, I'm going to be really, really careful about my relationships with the gold-diggining whores of the world.

[danaandvictory]

Whatever Silver's statements were, it's pretty clear this had a lot to do with Sterling's embarrassing and well-documented record of racism, sexism, and all-around prickishness.

Probably a fair bit to do with the free rider principle too, given that all these other owners bought in at higher stakes and have put effort into building a winning franchise while Sterling crapped the bed and reaped the rewards. (I bet a lot of NFL owners would have had a similar attitude toward Mike Brown circa 2000). Hell, even the building his team plays in was made possible by another franchise.

I appreciate what Cuban said with regard to a slippery slope, but I think this is an extraordinary punishment based on an extraordinary situation. A one-time slip-up by any other owner would have brought some minor censure. But the racial dynamics associated with basketball are unique and a strong punishment was merited.

Anyway, my biggest takeaway was not that the NBA deserved credit for ousting this clown, it was more a bewilderment that we have a society where someone as apparent deficient in every human virtue as Sterling could make two billion dollars. Life ain't fair, as it turns out.

[GoMuskies]

we have a society where someone as apparent deficient in every human virtue as Sterling could make two billion dollars

It's pretty simple: he's an attorney.

[X-band '01]

I think another reason Sterling earned the lifetime ban was not coming out after the statement to either a)vehemently deny that was his voice on the recording or b)come clean and offer an apology to his players, fans, and the league.

[danaandvictory]

It's pretty simple: he's an attorney.

Then where the hell is my two billion dollars?

[GoMuskies]

Didn't you quit practicing? Apparently you have some sliver of virtue. Not allowed.

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

Then where the hell is my two billion dollars?

The big money is in blogging.

[danaandvictory]

Didn't you quit practicing? Apparently you have some sliver of virtue. Not allowed.

I did it for ten years - the least they can do is throw me a couple hundred mill.

[xubrew]

Donald Sterling is a racist asshole and a terrible owner, and the association is surely better off without him. But expelling someone for what they think or say in a private conversation is a hell of a precedent to set. I can't pity the guy by any means, but I don't know if I feel comfortable saying they made the "only correct call." I agree with Mark Cuban's take on this. It's a slippery slope. If there's one lesson I'm taking away, it's that after I win the lottery and become a multi-millionaire and pro sports owner, I'm going to be really, really careful about my relationships with the gold-diggining whores of the world.

I was thinking this as well.

He said this in what he believed was a private conversation. It arguably was a private conversation where the entrapment was obvious.

If someone is a racist bigot, or a sexist bigot, or any type of bigot, but they keep it to themselves and don't let it impact what they say or do publicly, should they be punished for that??

I didn't know anything about this guy until less than a week ago, and everything I do know about him now I don't like, so I don't feel sorry for him. But, I do find it to be an interesting question.

[bobbiemcgee]

But is being racist actually the worst thing in the world? These days, it seems like it is.

Apparently not if you want to get honored by the NAACP.

[danaandvictory]

If someone is a racist bigot, or a sexist bigot, or any type of bigot, but they keep it to themselves and don't let it impact what they say or do publicly, should they be punished for that??

Well, I think Sterling's history of sexual harassment and discriminatory housing policies probably takes him out of that hypothetical.

I guess my thing is that the NBA gets to make its own rules and mete out its own punishments. No one has a right to own an NBA franchise and apparently the bylaws of that organization allow them to suspend an owner for conduct detrimental to the game and force a sale with a 3/4 majority vote. Those are the rules you choose to be bound by. Sterling profited handsomely from that association for decades, he can't very well cry foul when it enforces its rules to his detriment.

No one would have known about or cared about Marge Schott's retrograde racial views had she not aired them publicly. The problem is that racists are apparently going to racist.

[GoMuskies]

I did it for ten years - the least they can do is throw me a couple hundred mill.

I'll talk to The Committee.

[bobbiemcgee]

It's pretty simple: he's an attorney.

I told my Plumber he charges more than my Attorney. He said, "yeah, I know, I use to be one."

[NY44]

He said this in what he believed was a private conversation. It arguably was a private conversation where the entrapment was obvious.

If someone is a racist bigot, or a sexist bigot, or any type of bigot, but they keep it to themselves and don't let it impact what they say or do publicly, should they be punished for that??

I've seen a lot of people making this point, and I don't really get it. The Commissioner's office isn't a court of law. This conversation can't be thrown out as evidence of his racism because it was private. What matters is that he is a racist and that we all know he's a racist. It doesn't matter if he knowingly made the statement to the whole world. It just matters that he made it.

Our character is what we do when we think no one is looking.

[xubrew]

I've seen a lot of people making this point, and I don't really get it. The Commissioner's office isn't a court of law. This conversation can't be thrown out as evidence of his racism because it was private. What matters is that he is a racist and that we all know he's a racist. It doesn't matter if he knowingly made the statement to the whole world. It just matters that he made it.

Our character is what we do when we think no one is looking.

I think his character sucks, but lots of bad people don't lose their jobs despite the fact that they're assholes. Sterling has probably had that same attitude the entire time he's been an NBA owner, and he never lost his job prior to this. I'm guessing it was because he kept it to himself and realized it was not in his best interest to allow being a racist dipshit to interfere with what he said and did publicly, and what business decisions he made. (Or maybe he did. I didn't know about what DanaandVictory had said).

I get that it's not a court of law. What he did was not against the law. Most people aren't fired or reprimanded for what they do, say and think privately. I agree that it doesn't make him any less of a nutsack, though.


Another question.....

How can you ban someone for life, fine them $2.5 million, and ban them from attending games??

What are they going to do if he doesn't pay the $2.5 million dollar fine?? Ban him in the afterlife??

[DC Muskie]

I've seen a lot of people making this point, and I don't really get it. The Commissioner's office isn't a court of law. This conversation can't be thrown out as evidence of his racism because it was private. What matters is that he is a racist and that we all know he's a racist. It doesn't matter if he knowingly made the statement to the whole world. It just matters that he made it.

Our character is what we do when we think no one is looking.

I agree with this 100%. It's like the people who argue about "First Amendment." I think you miss the point when arguing about character and trying to apply it to privacy or free speech arguments.

People that aren't racist don't have to associate with other racists, and Donald Sterling isn't being thrown in jail by the government for saying racist things.

[DC Muskie]

I think his character sucks, but lots of bad people don't lose their jobs despite the fact that they're assholes. Sterling has probably had that same attitude the entire time he's been an NBA owner, and he never lost his job prior to this. I'm guessing it was because he kept it to himself and realized it was not in his best interest to allow being a racist dipshit to interfere with what he said and did publicly, and what business decisions he made. (Or maybe he did. I didn't know about what DanaandVictory had said).

I get that it's not a court of law. What he did was not against the law. Most people aren't fired or reprimanded for what they do, say and think privately. I agree that it doesn't make him any less of a nutsack, though.


Another question.....

How can you ban someone for life, fine them $2.5 million, and ban them from attending games??

What are they going to do if he doesn't pay the $2.5 million dollar fine?? Ban him in the afterlife??

People lose their jobs all the time for doing things in the privacy of their homes that become public. I think you are missing the point that this became public, and the public reacted.

I don't understand the argument that somehow Sterling wasn't thrown out earlier and therefore he shouldn't be thrown out now. Why not? New people, new intolerance of such views, new values. I don't care that they didn't throw him out years before, I'm just glad they are throwing him out now.

As for the fine, if they collect, great. If not, move on and you win anyway.

[danaandvictory]

But Sterling is not an employee of the NBA. He's a franchisee and a member of the Board of Governors. That's a voluntary association subject to its own internal bylaws. It's like being in a condo association, I guess. You have equity by virtue of owning property but you have to comply with the association rules and regulations.

You can, legally, be fired for being an asshole. You can be fired for any reason, or no reason at all, as long as there isn't an anti-discrimination or anti-retaliation law out there that protects you.

The ban and the fine, as Silver explained, are punishments the Commissioner is allowed to dole out under the NBA's constitution. If he doesn't pay the fine, I guess they could take him to court, but I suspect once the sale is forced everyone will just walk away. And I believe the NBA can choose to ban anyone from attending games if they want.

[GoMuskies]

I assume there are certain payments that are due from the NBA to the Clippers (for TV contract payments, for example). The NBA could presumably just hold back $2.5 million from those payments if necessary to collect on the fine.

[xubrew]

I agree with this 100%. It's like the people who argue about "First Amendment." I think you miss the point when arguing about character and trying to apply it to privacy or free speech arguments.

People that aren't racist don't have to associate with other racists, and Donald Sterling isn't being thrown in jail by the government for saying racist things.

I understand the First Amendment. That's why I didn't reference it.

Let me put it another way.

If they knew he was a racist, why didn't they ban him for life and fine him $2.5 million before this?? Unless this is the first time anyone had ever heard him make comments like that, and that he'd never said or done anything in private conversations before this, then why wasn't it an issue until it went public, especially since he never intended for those comments to be made publicly??

[xubrew]

People lose their jobs all the time for doing things in the privacy of their homes that become public. I think you are missing the point that this became public, and the public reacted.

I don't understand the argument that somehow Sterling wasn't thrown out earlier and therefore he shouldn't be thrown out now. Why not? New people, new intolerance of such views, new values. I don't care that they didn't throw him out years before, I'm just glad they are throwing him out now.

As for the fine, if they collect, great. If not, move on and you win anyway.

That actually makes sense.

[DC Muskie]

I understand the First Amendment. That's why I didn't reference it.

Let me put it another way.

If they knew he was a racist, why didn't they ban him for life and fine him $2.5 million before this?? Unless this is the first time anyone had ever heard him make comments like that, and that he'd never said or done anything in private conversations before this, then why wasn't it an issue until it went public, especially since he never intended for those comments to be made publicly??

I'm answer to answer your question with a question...

Why does it matter that the NBA is doing it now? Maybe the NBA was more tolerant back then. Maybe Stern tossed Sterling's salad for years.

Having this go public is a huge game changer. There are plenty of people out there who had no idea who Sterling was. Now they know. Now he had to be gone and he is.

But why focus on the timing?

[xubrew]

I'm answer to answer your question with a question...

Why does it matter that the NBA is doing it now? Maybe the NBA was more tolerant back then. Maybe Stern tossed Sterling's salad for years.

Having this go public is a huge game changer. There are plenty of people out there who had no idea who Sterling was. Now they know. Now he had to be gone and he is.

But why focus on the timing?


As I said before......


That actually makes sense.

[NY44]

Interesting side note: In 2013 Chris Paul made it known that he wanted a black coach. It might be a stretch, but maybe he was aware and weary of Sterling's racism.

[NY44]

I understand the First Amendment. That's why I didn't reference it.

Let me put it another way.

If they knew he was a racist, why didn't they ban him for life and fine him $2.5 million before this?? Unless this is the first time anyone had ever heard him make comments like that, and that he'd never said or done anything in private conversations before this, then why wasn't it an issue until it went public, especially since he never intended for those comments to be made publicly??

Maybe it was previously a judgement call that someone had to make and felt his racism wasn't a big enough problem to kick him out on. Now, it is undoubtedly a huge problem. It was probably an easy decision for Silver. What's the downside to kicking out Sterling?

[PMI]

Interesting side note: In 2013 Chris Paul made it known that he wanted a black coach. It might be a stretch, but maybe he was aware and weary of Sterling's racism.

I remember this rumor but was it ever actually confirmed? In any case, I'll bet that if, say, Kevin Love made it known that he wanted a white coach, it would have been received quite differently. Racially sensitive issues are quite fascinating really. There are savage murderers who have drawn far less vitriol than Donald Sterling. An 80 year old is exposed as a racist bigot and everyone's outrage seems to be laced with this kind of non genuine shock or surprise, as if to serve as some kind of a token of certification that reads "I could NEVER be guilty of having prejudiced thoughts." The tight rope that people walk when these huge stories involving racism pop up always fascinate me. As someone from a very, very diverse part of the world, it just seems like a little more honesty could be productive, but I doubt that's true everywhere.

[SM#24]

Interesting side note: In 2013 Chris Paul made it known that he wanted a black coach. It might be a stretch, but maybe he was aware and weary of Sterling's racism.

And why isn't this blatant racism ?
Oh, I forgot, only white people can be racist.

[XU 87]

Interesting side note: In 2013 Chris Paul made it known that he wanted a black coach. It might be a stretch, but maybe he was aware and weary of Sterling's racism.

Isn't Chris Paul a racist? Would it be ok for a white player to ask for a white coach?

(I see SM24 beat me to it)

[XU 87]

And why isn't this blatant racism ?
Oh, I forgot, only white people can be racist.

There's no standard like a double standard.

[NY44]

Isn't Chris Paul a racist? Would it be ok for a white player to ask for a white coach?

(I see SM24 beat me)

No. Chris Paul saying he'd rather play for a black coach is not comparable to Sterling asking his girlfriend not to commingle with black people in public.

[XU 87]

No. Chris Paul saying he'd rather play for a black coach is not comparable to Sterling asking his girlfriend not to commingle with black people in public.

How about a white player saying he wanted to play for a white coach? You would be ok with that?

[SM#24]

If they knew he was a racist, why didn't they ban him for life and fine him $2.5 million before this?? Unless this is the first time anyone had ever heard him make comments like that, and that he'd never said or done anything in private conversations before this, then why wasn't it an issue until it went public, especially since he never intended for those comments to be made publicly??
I'm pretty sure that every owner knew Sterling was who he showed himself to be long before this, but I'm sure they were willing to look the other way as long as it didn't have any effect on them and the league. This created a public uproar. If he was allowed to continue in any manner in the league, even after only a 1-2 year suspension, that franchise is ruined. It had to be lifetime because otherwise you will have a franchise that no one will play for and no one will sponsor. It's not good for the league overall to have that.

[NY44]

How about a white player saying he wanted to play for a white coach? You would be ok with that?

I would probably be less okay with it, since black coaches are in the minority as coaches (1/3) while black players represent a little over 70% of players (which is a lower number than in past years).

Regardless, I dug into Chris Paul's preference for a black coach and it appears to have just been a rumor with no official quotes or sources tied to it.

[SM#24]

Just so we're clear, I've never liked or respected Donald Sterling and have long wished he would have sold the team; in fact, I like the current make-up of the team but knowing he's the owner, I can't root for them (and this was long before this weekend).

However, what I find equally despicable is the whore that is called V. What a f---ing (). Why she is not getting villified is beyond me.

[XU 87]

I would probably be less okay with it, since black coaches are in the minority as coaches (1/3) while black players represent a little over 70% of players (which is a lower number than in past years).

Regardless, I dug into Chris Paul's preference for a black coach and it appears to have just been a rumor with no official quotes or sources tied to it.

Let's be honest- if a white player said that you'd be saying he's a racist and should be kicked out of the league. But a black player says it and you think it's perfectly ok. Double standards.

[DC Muskie]

Why she is not getting villified is beyond me.

Why?

[XU 87]

Why?

Because she's a whore who was fooling around with an 80 year old married man for the sole purpose of receiving expensive cars, jewelry and apartments. And she taped a personal phone call, which she turned over to a web site for the sole purpose of ruining him.

[gladdenguy]

If I was worth 1.9 billion I would have a better looking girlfriend than that ugly bitch.

[NY44]

Let's be honest- if a white player said that you'd be saying he's a racist and should be kicked out of the league. But a black player says it and you think it's perfectly ok. Double standards.

Well, first, Chris Paul didn't say it, so this discussion is pointless. Second, I suggested that had he said it (which he didn't), it may have been an effort to combat or bend the racist Don Sterling. Cool hypothetical though!

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Why?

I am having issues why she even made this public. It's pretty clear she was giving it up for his money making her a prostitute. Why bite the hand that feeds you? She has probably been cut loose and I am sure Sterling will do his best to reclaim what he has given her or at least what he can get back. Point is, here is a massive whore just created a headache for herself for outing a guy we all knew was racist anyway.

[DC Muskie]

Because she's a whore who was fooling around with an 80 year old married man for the sole purpose of receiving expensive cars, jewelry and apartments. And she taped a personal phone call, which she turned over to a web site for the sole purpose of ruining him.

You know she's black right?

[DC Muskie]

I am having issues why she even made this public. It's pretty clear she was giving it up for his money making her a prostitute. Why bite the hand that feeds you? She has probably been cut loose and I am sure Sterling will do his best to reclaim what he has given her or at least what he can get back. Point is, here is a massive whore just created a headache for herself for outing a guy we all knew was racist anyway.

And yet her actions has rid a sport of that known racist.

[XU 87]

You know she's black right?

Ok, so she's a black whore who slept with an 80 year old man for money. And she's a black whore who taped a phone call and turned it over to web site.

And actually, she looks Hispanic.

[NY44]

Ok, so she's a black whore who slept with an 80 year old man for money. And she's a black whore who taped a phone call and turned it over to web site.

And actually, she looks Hispanic.

Let's make sure we define her race, because that matters.

So it's cool to be a rich 80 year old who sleeps with "whores", but it's not cool to be a "whore" who sleeps with rich 80 year olds? Sexism too! Yay!

[XU 87]

Let's make sure we define her race, because that matters.

So it's cool to be a rich 80 year old who sleeps with "whores", but it's not cool to be a "whore" who sleeps with rich 80 year olds? Sexism too! Yay!


And show me where I said that it is cool for an 80 year old man to sleep with this young whore. But I do acknowledge your calling me a "sexist". Good stuff.

And who cares what her race is. Are you saying it's ok for her to sleep with this guy as long as she's black? (Not ANOTHER double standard). Or were you just being sarcastic?

[DC Muskie]

Ok, so she's a black whore who slept with an 80 year old man for money. And she's a black whore who taped a phone call and turned it over to web site.

And actually, she looks Hispanic.

She's actually half Mexican half Black.

You forgot the point where she tried to ruin him. Most likely because he was spouting off about her race. Talk about double standards, Sterling bangs a black chick then turns around and tells her to stop publicizing the times she hangs out with black people.

I could care less that she was banging this dude.

[DC Muskie]

And show me where I said that it is cool for an 80 year old man to sleep with this young whore. But I do acknowledge your calling me a "sexist". Good stuff.

And who cares what her race is. Are you saying it's ok for her to sleep with this guy as long as she's black? (Not ANOTHER double standard). Or were you just being sarcastic?

Her race is probably the motivation for her to making this public. Maybe a white whore would feel differently. Who knows. Besides you obviously.

[NY44]

And show me where I said that it is cool for an 80 year old man to sleep with this young whore. But I do acknowledge your calling me a "sexist". Good stuff.

And who cares what her race is. Are you saying it's ok for her to sleep with this guy as long as she's black? (Not ANOTHER double standard).

Here:

Because she's a whore who was fooling around with an 80 year old married man for the sole purpose of receiving expensive cars, jewelry and apartments.

and here:

Ok, so she's a black whore who slept with an 80 year old man for money.

According to you she's a "whore" and he's just an "80 year old married man", you somehow forgot to mention that he is an adulterer and a racist.

Her race doesn't matter at all, that was sarcasm. I don't care if you call her a black whore or a half-mexican half-black whore. I'm not defending her, she's actually the only one in legal trouble in this mess because she recorded and shared a private conversation. A crime I'm sure she'll see her day in court for. As far as the NBA is concerned though, she was key in exposing a racist and giving them the opportunity to remove him from their league.

[XU 87]

Her race is probably the motivation for her to making this public. Maybe a white whore would feel differently. Who knows. Besides you obviously.

And how do you know what her motivation was? She knew damn well that this tape was going to ruin him.

Please don't try to make this slut's actions as her doing some great deed for society to rid the world of a racist.

[Muskie]

Why is this even an issue? Don't do the crime if you can't take the punishment.

[XU 87]

Here:


and here:


According to you she's a "whore" and he's just an "80 year old married man", you somehow forgot to mention that he is an adulterer and a racist.

Her race doesn't matter at all, that was sarcasm. I don't care if you call her a black whore or a half-mexican half-black whore. I'm not defending her, she's actually the only one in legal trouble in this mess because she recorded and shared a private conversation. A crime I'm sure she'll see her day in court for. As far as the NBA is concerned though, she was key in exposing a racist and giving them the opportunity to remove him from their league.

I think, and have thought for a long, long time, well before this, that Sterling is an asshole. This latest episode simply confirmed my opinions of the guy.

But I do like it how you dissect my sentences and extrapolate whatever hidden meanings you can find (my hidden sexism sentence for example). Good stuff.

But I ask again- show me where I said that I thought it was "cool" that Sterling was screwing this whore. My point is that you should stop making things up and resorting to silly name calling when you're forced to actually argue your position. In the past you've called me a homophobe when I didn't agree with you on gay issues and today I'm a sexist. And I'm sure that "racist" will follow some day.

[OH.X.MI]

Life, Death, Taxes and NY44 v. XU 87.

[nuts4xu]

Let me put it another way.

If they knew he was a racist, why didn't they ban him for life and fine him $2.5 million before this??

According to Adam Silver, it sounds like the NBA looked into past allegations but never had enough to take this course of action.

From the transcript of today's press conference: "I can't speak to past actions other than to say that when specific evidence was brought to the NBA, we acted."

[OH.X.MI]

Not going to call her a whore because my mother taught me better than to use language like that. But I did see this picture of the woman walking around "incognito" today... she and Sterling seem like real assholes who I think everyone is better off forgetting now that its (mostly) settled. Give people like them an inch and they take a mile.
1435

[NY44]

But I ask again- show me where I said that I thought it was "cool" that Sterling was screwing this whore. My point is that you should stop making things up and resorting to silly name calling when you're forced to actually argue your position. In the past you've called me a homophobe when I didn't agree with you on gay issues and today I'm a sexist. And I'm sure that "racist" will follow some day.

You're right, the sexism line was over the top. As I explained, you labeled her a whore (which she probably is) and him a married man. Just because you didn't flat out say something doesn't mean it wasn't implied.

[XU 87]

You're right, the sexism line was over the top. As I explained, you labeled her a whore (which she probably is) and him a married man. Just because you didn't flat out say something doesn't mean it wasn't implied.

That's neat that you can read my mind via a few unspoken words on the internet. And what exactly was I implying, and about who? Maybe I can learn a little more about myself from you.

[nuts4xu]

I am having issues why she even made this public.

According to her attorney, she didn't release the audio.
"This office understands that the currently released audio tape of approximately 15 minutes is a portion of approximately one (1) hour of overall audio recording of Mr. Donald T. Sterling and Ms. Stiviano, and is in fact legitimate," Nehoray said in a news release. "Ms. Stiviano did not release the tape(s) to any news media."

If she didn't then who in the hell did? Donald Sterling?

My guess is she released the tape (or had someone do it for her) because of the lawsuit filed by Sterling and his wife last month. I suspect she did it as revenge.

"Just last month, Sterling's wife filed a lawsuit against Stiviano, accusing her having an affair with the billionaire team owner.
In the complaint, Rochelle Sterling accuses Stiviano of targeting extremely wealthy older men."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/28/us/who-is-v-stiviano/

[xu82]

According to Adam Silver, it sounds like the NBA looked into past allegations but never had enough to take this course of action.

From the transcript of today's press conference: "I can't speak to past actions other than to say that when specific evidence was brought to the NBA, we acted."

Shhh, don't mess this up with... you know, quotes and facts and stuff! This is quite entertaining.

[XU 87]

Basically, these were 2 awful people having an affair where he was basically paying for sex.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I understand the First Amendment. That's why I didn't reference it.

Let me put it another way.

If they knew he was a racist, why didn't they ban him for life and fine him $2.5 million before this?? Unless this is the first time anyone had ever heard him make comments like that, and that he'd never said or done anything in private conversations before this, then why wasn't it an issue until it went public, especially since he never intended for those comments to be made publicly??

He pretty much forces the NBA's hand when his views become public. Also David Stern is taking a lot of heat for not having done something about Sterling years ago.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Let's be honest- if a white player said that you'd be saying he's a racist and should be kicked out of the league. But a black player says it and you think it's perfectly ok. Double standards.

Why is it surprising that there are double standards in life? They are everywhere, everyday, involving lots of races and both sexes.

[xu82]

Basically, these were 2 awful people having an affair where he was basically paying for sex.

Well, I could have skipped everything up to this and gotten the point. But I was enjoying it too much.

[XU 87]

Why is it surprising that there are double standards in life? They are everywhere, everyday, involving lots of races and both sexes.

I didn't say I was surprised. I am saying it's wrong and hypocritical in many situations to have double standards.

[DC Muskie]

And how do you know what her motivation was?

Says the guy who knows her motivation for sleeping with him. If I concede the fact that she is a whore, can you at least concede the fact that she probably grew tired of his racist bullshit?


She knew damn well that this tape was going to ruin him.

Well technically he did it to himself. She didn't force him to go bonkers about taking a picture with Magic Johnson.


Please don't try to make this slut's actions as her doing some great deed for society to rid the world of a racist.

Again, technically Sterling is still alive, so she didn't actually rid the world of a racist. She did however rid a sport of a racist and that I feel is a great deed.

[xu82]

He pretty much forces the NBA's hand when his views become public. Also David Stern is taking a lot of heat for not having done something about Sterling years ago.

I honestly didn't know just how awful he was. I remember an article years ago (SI?) about how he didn't even try to win because he would earn less. That was enough to turn me off. This recent stuff is too unambiguous, undeniable and FAR too public - the league had to act fast and hard. And everybody loses. (At least short term, long term they're best to be rid of the fool.) I didn't know about all the stuff in between. No sweeping this under the rug!

[D-West & PO-Z]

The NBA really didnt have much choice but to take this action which will result in him pretty much having to sell the franchise. Most players wouldnt want to play for him, no coach would want to coach for him, and all the sponsors are already pulling out of their contracts. How is the franchise supposed to continue if Sterling isnt forced out and to sell. It couldnt go on really.

[XU 87]

Says the guy who knows her motivation for sleeping with him.




Other than the fact that he was rich and he bought her things, can you think of any other reasons that this youngish girl was sleeping with this 80 year old man? It doesn't take some great insight or intelligence to figure that one out.

[NY44]

That's neat that you can read my mind via a few unspoken words on the internet. And what exactly was I implying, and about who? Maybe I can learn a little more about myself from you.

Rhetoric 101: This:


Basically, these were 2 awful people having an affair where he was basically paying for sex.

Does not equal this:


she's a whore who was fooling around with an 80 year old married man for the sole purpose of receiving expensive cars, jewelry and apartments.

Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I think it's pretty easy to see how that was possible.

[PMI]

Her race is probably the motivation for her to making this public. Maybe a white whore would feel differently. Who knows. Besides you obviously.


Not going to call her a whore because my mother taught me better than to use language like that. But I did see this picture of the woman walking around "incognito" today... she and Sterling seem like real assholes who I think everyone is better off forgetting now that its (mostly) settled. Give people like them an inch and they take a mile.
1435

I don't know if it will be forgotten too soon. Sterling's reputation is obviously ruined for life (rightfully so) and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see this woman capitalize off this big time. Talk shows, her own reality show, whatever. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what kind of woman this: a gold digging whore, if that's not too offensive for anyone. But fuck it, to have an affair with a very rich, married man, who buys her lots of things and then very publicly ruin the guy (again, rightfully so, but let's not mistake the entire list of intentions for the final results), you've earned your label. She can now make her own money.

[XU 87]

Rhetoric 101: This:



Does not equal this:



Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I think it's pretty easy to see how that was possible.

Well, actually, "No." Saying "she was sleeping with an 80 year old man" does not mean (or imply) that "I think it was really cool this 80 year old guy was sleeping with this girl." The first sentence has no opinion of the 80 year old man. The second sentence does. Hence, your "interpretation" of what I wrote was not reasonable or supported by anything objectively. Instead, your "interpretation" merely served your desired purpose to call me "sexist".

So for future reference, no name calling or making things up.

[SM#24]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/who-is-v--stiviano--and-what-s-her-connection-to-the-donald-sterling-story-191703972.html;_ylt=A0LEV0G9U2BTPHMAIrhx.9w4;_ylu= X3oDMTB1anJzcnFpBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA01PVV MxNDZfMQ--

What I don't get is all this taping of your private conversations. I mean who does that ?
Apparently, she has 100 hours of audio recorded. What a complete violation of trust, no matter the circumstances.
I'm fine and happy with the end, but doesn't mean I have even one ounce of respect for her and the means. Actually quite the opposite.

While we're throwing out hypotheticals, maybe this is a whole set up conjured up by her friend Magic to open the door for him to buy the Clippers.

[STL_XUfan]

Other than the fact that he was rich and he bought her things, can you think of any other reasons that this youngish girl was sleeping with this 80 year old man? It doesn't take some great insight or intelligence to figure that one out.
Quit trying to stand in the way of true love.

[chico]

Not going to call her a whore because my mother taught me better than to use language like that. But I did see this picture of the woman walking around "incognito" today... she and Sterling seem like real assholes who I think everyone is better off forgetting now that its (mostly) settled. Give people like them an inch and they take a mile.
1435

I can't decide if she's a Daft Punk fan or just felt like doing some welding.

[XU 87]

I can't decide if she's a Daft Punk fan or just felt like doing some welding.

Maybe she went to St. Bonaventure.

[xu82]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/who-is-v--stiviano--and-what-s-her-connection-to-the-donald-sterling-story-191703972.html;_ylt=A0LEV0G9U2BTPHMAIrhx.9w4;_ylu= X3oDMTB1anJzcnFpBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA01PVV MxNDZfMQ--

While we're throwing out hypotheticals, maybe this is a whole set up conjured up by her friend Magic to open the door for him to buy the Clippers.

Awesome! Now we add conspiracy theories! I wish I'd thought of it first, at least for entertainment purposes. (But it doesn't sound all that crazy.)

[Juice]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/who-is-v--stiviano--and-what-s-her-connection-to-the-donald-sterling-story-191703972.html;_ylt=A0LEV0G9U2BTPHMAIrhx.9w4;_ylu= X3oDMTB1anJzcnFpBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA01PVV MxNDZfMQ--

What I don't get is all this taping of your private conversations. I mean who does that ?
Apparently, she has 100 hours of audio recorded. What a complete violation of trust, no matter the circumstances.
I'm fine and happy with the end, but doesn't mean I have even one ounce of respect for her and the means. Actually quite the opposite.

While we're throwing out hypotheticals, maybe this is a whole set up conjured up by her friend Magic to open the door for him to buy the Clippers.

Magic's stake in the Dodgers and his potential stake in the Clippers is/would be actually pretty low. He's basically just the face of an ownership group.

[NY44]

So for future reference, no name calling or making things up.

Sure thing, Junior. :handshake:

[Nigel Tufnel]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/who-is-v--stiviano--and-what-s-her-connection-to-the-donald-sterling-story-191703972.html;_ylt=A0LEV0G9U2BTPHMAIrhx.9w4;_ylu= X3oDMTB1anJzcnFpBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA01PVV MxNDZfMQ--

What I don't get is all this taping of your private conversations. I mean who does that ?
Apparently, she has 100 hours of audio recorded. What a complete violation of trust, no matter the circumstances.
I'm fine and happy with the end, but doesn't mean I have even one ounce of respect for her and the means. Actually quite the opposite.

While we're throwing out hypotheticals, maybe this is a whole set up conjured up by her friend Magic to open the door for him to buy the Clippers.


I've heard the talking heads on tv talk about how she broke the law by recording the conversations. I don't know the law in California (LA Muskie may be able to clarify), but there is no expectation of privacy in Ohio for taping a phone conversation if you are on the line. It is against the law for a 3rd party to tape a conversation between two people that aren't aware its being taped. But if one of the parties involved in the conversation does the taping, at least in Ohio, you have to own what you said.

As for who tapes private phone conversations? Being a domestic relations attorney, I can tell you plenty of people. How do you prove your ex is a lying asshole in Court? You testify he/she said this and that....he/she testifies that he/she didn't say those things. BAM!! Tape recorded conversations to impeach the ex and the Court has a hard time believing the rest of their testimony. Happens every day.

I hate my job.

Edit: The craziest thing in the current landscape of domestic relations law is how stupid people are when it comes to social media. People get on Facebook and post terrible things about their spouses/ex spouses. Post pictures of themselves partying, drinking, smoking weed, etc. It never ceases to amaze me how stupid people are in regards to what they are willing to post about themselves on the internet. It is mind boggling.

[DC Muskie]

Other than the fact that he was rich and he bought her things, can you think of any other reasons that this youngish girl was sleeping with this 80 year old man? It doesn't take some great insight or intelligence to figure that one out.

And yet speculating her motivations to record a call as a black woman who might be annoyed by her boyfriend's racist remarks is somehow out of the realm of possibility?

Oh okay.

[SM#24]

I know Magic has a small stake. Doesn't mean he doesn't want to own an NBA franchise especially one in LA.

I don't believe what I threw out there, but it is possible. I do believe that's more the reason for the outing then any of her actions being noble.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think she's a whore. I think Anna Nicole Smith is her idol. She just got started a bit too late in life.

[GoMuskies]

I know Magic has a small snake.

That's how I originally read your post. I was wondering where that came from and how you had acquired such knowledge. :)

[XU 87]

Sure thing, Junior.

Awwww, and I specifically requested no more name calling.

[XU 87]

And for the record, her attorney has apparently denied that she was Sterling's girlfriend and that they were sleeping together. Maybe Sterling is just a generous guy who thought of her as another daughter.

[DC Muskie]

And for the record, I do not find her attractive.

Well maybe the mask makes it a little better.

[SM#24]

That's how I originally read your post. I was wondering where that came from and how you had acquired such knowledge. :)

Isiah told me.

[xu82]

And for the record, her attorney has apparently denied that she was Sterling's girlfriend and that they were sleeping together. Maybe Sterling is just a generous guy who thought of her as another daughter.

Well, if they weren't sleeping together, I might be willing to be thought of as another daughter. Sounds like it's a pretty good gig. Is he a racist and senile?

[D-West & PO-Z]

I was under the impression she recorded a face to face conversation with him, is it fact it was over the phone? I guess I'm not sure if it matters.

I have also heard that she did break the law with the recording but most think she wont get prosecuted because Donald Sterling is the "victim" in the law she broke and there isnt a prosecutor out there who is going to prosecute someone on behalf of Donald Sterling at this point.

[PMI]

And yet speculating her motivations to record a call as a black woman who might be annoyed by her boyfriend's racist remarks is somehow out of the realm of possibility?

Oh okay.

Not out of the realm of possibility, but I think it's naive at best to give this woman the benefit of the doubt of being anything short of a gold digging whore who was out to destroy this guy for personal reasons that likely included but were not limited to his racism. He deserves to be vilified, but I think it would (and probably by several will) be very fallacious to make her out to be the hero.

[danaandvictory]

She's being sued by Sterling's estranged wife. It could well be that she's been recording these conversations to gather evidence or leverage in that lawsuit. I wouldn't even venture a guess as to how it would help, but...

[LA Muskie]

She's being sued by Sterling's estranged wife. It could well be that she's been recording these conversations to gather evidence or leverage in that lawsuit. I wouldn't even venture a guess as to how it would help, but...
I think it was almost certainly her (or someone who planted a recording device at her direction). But she's a moron. CA is a two-party consent state, so if DTS didn't know someone was recording (and he almost certainly did not), the recording is not admissible, and whomever made the recording is subject to both criminal and civil liability for eavesdropping. The civil statute includes civil penalties that can be elected in lieu of actual damages.

[LA Muskie]

Is this a complete overreaction to what Sterling said? I'm not endorsing what he said, of course, but is it really worthy of a lifetime ban? If he hadn't have been such an awful owner otherwise, would this have happened to Sterling? I get that for the NBA it's more important than it may be for some other businesses to be clear that they will not tolerate discrimination against blacks.

I know I have my biases and prejudices, but I'd certainly like to think that I'm not racist. But is being racist actually the worst thing in the world? These days, it seems like it is.
No. No I don't think it's an over-reaction at all. It is exactly the right call. This is America. Everyone is entitled to his or her beliefs, and they can voice them as loudly as they want. But there is no rule that there won't be consequences for that speech from anyone other than the government. The statements may have been private, but they are public now. And no one should have to work for a known bigot, particularly those who are in the target class of his bigotry. He can't be ousted soon enough, as far as I'm concerned.

[LA Muskie]

Donald Sterling is a racist asshole and a terrible owner, and the association is surely better off without him. But expelling someone for what they think or say in a private conversation is a hell of a precedent to set. I can't pity the guy by any means, but I don't know if I feel comfortable saying they made the "only correct call." I agree with Mark Cuban's take on this. It's a slippery slope. If there's one lesson I'm taking away, it's that after I win the lottery and become a multi-millionaire and pro sports owner, I'm going to be really, really careful about my relationships with the gold-diggining whores of the world.
There's no question that it creates a slippery slope. But that alone isn't a reason enough to be more lenient. The risk can be managed. And while we may never know what any owner (or any other "boss") thinks if he keeps his mouth closed, once you open your mouth (privately or publicly) you are subject to the consequences of your opinion. Bear in mind he is an employer. His comments alone probably have created a hostile work environment -- he said, in effect, that most of his employees' own families are not welcome at their games because of their ethnicity. I think the NBA would be risking significant liability if they let him continue to be an employer. And that pales in comparison to the human aspect to all of this.

[LA Muskie]

Didn't you quit practicing? Apparently you have some sliver of virtue. Not allowed.
To my knowledge, DTS doesn't practice anymore either. In fact I don't think he's practiced for several decades now. (He stopped long before he made the lions' share of his money.)

[LA Muskie]

Just so we're clear, I've never liked or respected Donald Sterling and have long wished he would have sold the team; in fact, I like the current make-up of the team but knowing he's the owner, I can't root for them (and this was long before this weekend).

However, what I find equally despicable is the whore that is called V. What a f---ing (). Why she is not getting villified is beyond me.
She's not getting villified because she was simultaneously his girlfriend and the target of his racist bigotry. She deserves to be villified for being a gold-digging adulterer, but she's sort of immunized by the DTS craziness.

[LA Muskie]

Ok, so she's a black whore who slept with an 80 year old man for money. And she's a black whore who taped a phone call and turned it over to web site.

And actually, she looks Hispanic.
She's mixed (black and hispanic). And, as a lawyer I was discussing this with at court today said, she's "100% plastic". I don't think it was a phone call. But I think you've got the rest of it down.

[LA Muskie]

I am having issues why she even made this public. It's pretty clear she was giving it up for his money making her a prostitute. Why bite the hand that feeds you? She has probably been cut loose and I am sure Sterling will do his best to reclaim what he has given her or at least what he can get back. Point is, here is a massive whore just created a headache for herself for outing a guy we all knew was racist anyway.
Because DTS's wife is suing her for everything DTS gave her. My guess is she figured there was some leverage there. And, given that the most recent videos of his wife had her defending him, she may have guessed right. But she played it all wrong. (Not that I would have condoned playing it right...)

[LA Muskie]

According to her attorney, she didn't release the audio.
My guess is she released the tape (or had someone do it for her) because of the lawsuit filed by Sterling and his wife last month. I suspect she did it as revenge.

I would bet you are correct, and had the same discussion earlier today. Her lawyer's comments are as notable for what they don't say than what they do. He's playing games with words. She either made the recordings, directed them, or knew they were made. And while she may not have "given" them to the press, she probably had a role in them finding their way there.

[LA Muskie]

The NBA really didnt have much choice but to take this action which will result in him pretty much having to sell the franchise. Most players wouldnt want to play for him, no coach would want to coach for him, and all the sponsors are already pulling out of their contracts. How is the franchise supposed to continue if Sterling isnt forced out and to sell. It couldnt go on really.
This. Silver made a point of it for a reason. And I like it. But he didn't even have to say it. DTS is toast -- he can either sell now or the team can go bankrupt (and he can go from a $700mm profit to a loss).

[Xman95]

If an NBA player makes racist comments, will he be banned for life?

[LA Muskie]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/who-is-v--stiviano--and-what-s-her-connection-to-the-donald-sterling-story-191703972.html;_ylt=A0LEV0G9U2BTPHMAIrhx.9w4;_ylu= X3oDMTB1anJzcnFpBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA01PVV MxNDZfMQ--

What I don't get is all this taping of your private conversations. I mean who does that ?
Apparently, she has 100 hours of audio recorded. What a complete violation of trust, no matter the circumstances.
I'm fine and happy with the end, but doesn't mean I have even one ounce of respect for her and the means. Actually quite the opposite.

While we're throwing out hypotheticals, maybe this is a whole set up conjured up by her friend Magic to open the door for him to buy the Clippers.
Smartphones have made it very, very easy to pull this stuff off. But I agree, it is a despicable breach of trust.

[xu82]

I think it was almost certainly her (or someone who planted a recording device at her direction). But she's a moron. CA is a two-party consent state, so if DTS didn't know someone was recording (and he almost certainly did not), the recording is not admissible, and whomever made the recording is subject to both criminal and civil liability for eavesdropping. The civil statute includes civil penalties that can be elected in lieu of actual damages.

So, he can win back anything she gains financially from this? Not that he needs it, but I doubt he'd relish the idea of her profiting, and he's got the funds to fight that to the end of time (well past his time). It comes down to stupidity or just plain hatred. I won't venture a guess. Could be both.

[LA Muskie]

I've heard the talking heads on tv talk about how she broke the law by recording the conversations. I don't know the law in California (LA Muskie may be able to clarify), but there is no expectation of privacy in Ohio for taping a phone conversation if you are on the line. It is against the law for a 3rd party to tape a conversation between two people that aren't aware its being taped. But if one of the parties involved in the conversation does the taping, at least in Ohio, you have to own what you said.

As for who tapes private phone conversations? Being a domestic relations attorney, I can tell you plenty of people. How do you prove your ex is a lying asshole in Court? You testify he/she said this and that....he/she testifies that he/she didn't say those things. BAM!! Tape recorded conversations to impeach the ex and the Court has a hard time believing the rest of their testimony. Happens every day.

I hate my job.

Edit: The craziest thing in the current landscape of domestic relations law is how stupid people are when it comes to social media. People get on Facebook and post terrible things about their spouses/ex spouses. Post pictures of themselves partying, drinking, smoking weed, etc. It never ceases to amaze me how stupid people are in regards to what they are willing to post about themselves on the internet. It is mind boggling.
Nigel, I just saw this. See my earlier post. It is illegal to record a private conversation in CA unless all parties consent. Assuming this was a private conversation, the recording was both illegal and gives rise to civil liability for eavesdropping. See CA Penal Code s 632.

[LA Muskie]

I know Magic has a small stake. Doesn't mean he doesn't want to own an NBA franchise especially one in LA.

I don't believe what I threw out there, but it is possible. I do believe that's more the reason for the outing then any of her actions being noble.
With the Dodgers -- and if he was part of a buyers' group for the Lakers -- Magic's ownership interest would be greater than the amount of money he puts in. He brings significant value above and beyond any cash infusion.

[LA Muskie]

And for the record, her attorney has apparently denied that she was Sterling's girlfriend and that they were sleeping together. Maybe Sterling is just a generous guy who thought of her as another daughter.
Unless that is a very recent statement, that's not what I saw. Her lawyer said that they "have not acknowledged a romantic relationship." He's not saying there wasn't one. He's just saying they haven't actually acknowledged it. The guy sounds like a tool who thinks he's a lot smarter than he is.

[LA Muskie]

I was under the impression she recorded a face to face conversation with him, is it fact it was over the phone?
That is my understanding as well


I have also heard that she did break the law with the recording but most think she wont get prosecuted because Donald Sterling is the "victim" in the law she broke and there isnt a prosecutor out there who is going to prosecute someone on behalf of Donald Sterling at this point.
Probably true on all counts.

[xu82]

Unless that is a very recent statement, that's not what I saw. Her lawyer said that they "have not acknowledged a romantic relationship." He's not saying there wasn't one. He's just saying they haven't actually acknowledged it. The guy sounds like a tool who thinks he's a lot smarter than he is.

I hope to never be a 2 billion dollar tool. Well, I only hope for part of that. I'll let you guess...

[PMI]

There's no question that it creates a slippery slope. But that alone isn't a reason enough to be more lenient. The risk can be managed. And while we may never know what any owner (or any other "boss") thinks if he keeps his mouth closed, once you open your mouth (privately or publicly) you are subject to the consequences of your opinion. Bear in mind he is an employer. His comments alone probably have created a hostile work environment -- he said, in effect, that most of his employees' own families are not welcome at their games because of their ethnicity. I think the NBA would be risking significant liability if they let him continue to be an employer. And that pales in comparison to the human aspect to all of this.

Yea I don't disagree with you. I just think from the standpoint of a fellow owner, like Cuban, it might be a bit unsettling to know that what you say in privacy can come back to end you. Not that I think other owners would say something, or in particular, mean something that bad that would carry those consequences, but in general, I think it's a given that every one of them have said and do say things in private that could really hurt them if it came out. So I could see how they would be concerned about this being a slippery slope going forward. And furthermore, there is too much pressure not to get behind Adam Silver and advocate the forcing out of Sterling as an owner, so the other owners are basically forced to line up on one side of this "slippery slope." This is of course much more a revelation of where society as a whole is heading than just an issue among owners, even though they carry larger consequences than most. As the world advances further down the road that social media and other technologies are taking it, people have to be more and more careful about what they say, but in a sense, they also have to be more and more in line with certain majority views. Some of these views are what should be widely accepted as the only right views in 2014, such as the idea that what Sterling said was undoubtably offensive. But while this incident is not an example of a gray area, such areas could indeed exist. I can definitely see Cuban's point about how carefully this must be treaded.

[LA Muskie]

I hope to never be a 2 billion dollar tool. Well, I only hope for part of that. I'll let you guess...

I was referring to the mistress's lawyer. I have far more choice descriptions for DTS.

[GoMuskies]

I'm definitely with PMI on being a bit concerned on where this is going. What if Sterling had a gay son and told him that he didn't care that he was gay and that he could do whatever he wanted, but please don't bring your boyfriend to games and advertise it to everyone. 10 (okay, maybe 20) years ago, that almost would have been a progressive position.

This case is easy because everyone already hated Sterling, and it involves race in a league that is 80-90% black. But I think maybe the old adage about tough cases making bad law can be turned around: sometimes easy cases make for bad precedent.

[SM#24]

If an NBA player makes racist comments, will he be banned for life?
Only if he's white, and even then, probably not banned for life.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if a black NBA player came out and said he didn't want any white players on his team. I think there would be some form of punishment, but I can't imagine it would be too severe.

[SM#24]

While punishing someone for what they say in private is a slippery slope, the problem here is that what was said is now out in the mainstream public (thanks to that gold-digging, back-stabbing whore). For business reasons alone, the NBA's actions were appropriate.
Also, if you asked me a month ago I would have said the NBA is much better off without Sterling.

So, while Sterling's actions have been dealth with (appropriately IMO), what about V. (the half-Mexican, half-AA that gave herself an Italian last name) ?
If it indeed is against the law to record a private conversation without consent, where's that investigation and punishment ?

[nuts4xu]

If it indeed is against the law to record a private conversation without consent, where's that investigation and punishment ?

Calling LA Muskie.....

Good question.

[PMI]

Only if he's white, and even then, probably not banned for life.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if a black NBA player came out and said he didn't want any white players on his team. I think there would be some form of punishment, but I can't imagine it would be too severe.

It happened this week! Well, a black executive and former player, Larry Johnson. He said, in the wake of everything, that African Americans should be focusing on having "our OWN league." Don't bring black people to my games, don't have white people in my league, what's the difference? Do you think the media will jump all over this one? Let's face it, for right or wrong, the worst kind of racist you can be in this country in a white man who is racist against black people.

[LA Muskie]

Calling LA Muskie.....

Good question.

Certainly could be prosecuted but probably won't be. It's only a misdemeanor and the victim is far from sympathetic. So there's very little upside for the DA's office.

Tons of prosecutable offenses go unprosecuted every year. The DA can't prosecute every offense -- neither it nor the courts have the resources. So it has to exercise discretion, and in this instance I suspect they'll take a pass.

DTS could sue civilly, but if he was my client (and he's not) I'd advise against it for the same reason I almost always caution against bringing defamation claims. From a PR perspective it just makes things worse, and jurors typically have very little sympathy for the "bad guy wronged".

[xeus]

The Archdiocese of Cincinnati writes a contract outlining specific things that Catholic teachers are not to do in their private life. Outrage! Anger! How dare Catholic institutions impose Catholic morality on Catholic teachers who have chosen to be employed in Catholic schools.

The NBA bans Clippers owner and fines him $2.5M for making racist comments recorded in private. Cheers and applause! Hi-fives! Of course the NBA can impose NBA morality on NBA owners who have chosen to purchase NBA teams. Of course. What are you, Catholic?

[Pete Delkus]

I was fine with the punishment and thought it was appropriate. If he OWNED the NBA, then players could walk and start their own league (in theory – I don't want to get into anti-trust issues). I wouldn't want to be associated with a guy who can't look pass race as a deciding factor in everyday interaction.

However, what I fear is the regression into a state of greater belief, by outspoken black leaders and "white guilters" (who can sound extremely pathetic), that there is power vacuum for blacks due to everyday bigots conspiring in office buildings, conference rooms and decision centers. This creates and inappropriate reaction and forces a bigger divide into race relations.

This was one billionaire loon.

[muskienick]

The Archdiocese of Cincinnati writes a contract outlining specific things that Catholic teachers are not to do in their private life. Outrage! Anger! How dare Catholic institutions impose Catholic morality on Catholic teachers who have chosen to be employed in Catholic schools.

The NBA bans Clippers owner and fines him $2.5M for making racist comments recorded in private. Cheers and applause! Hi-fives! Of course the NBA can impose NBA morality on NBA owners who have chosen to purchase NBA teams. Of course. What are you, Catholic?

I won't judge the Archdiocese's teacher contract wording as it stands one way or the other. But I think the timing of it is rather strange considering Pope Francis' pleas to all Catholics to be more tolerant, understanding, accepting, and loving of people who are different from us by race, religion, national origin, and sexual orientation. In other words, he wants us to be more Christ-like. WWJD? He showed great respect for a prostitute, preached about a father's joy at the return of his Prodigal Son, and pointed to the Good Samaritan as an object of admiration instead of one of hate and distrust (which was typical among the Jews). It seems to me that such contract wording would have been more appropriate during the Papacy of JP II who was far more conservative in his views than Francis.

[gladdenguy]

What Larry Johnson said over twitter is worse than what Donald Sterling did (not said).......considering Donald Sterling didn't know he was being taped and was framed by a dumb, ugly, gold-digging dirty whore. Larry Johnson needs to go. And now.

[Muskie]

What did Larry Johnson Say?

[GoMuskies]

What did Larry Johnson Say?

He said that Fr. Graham is the best university president in America.

[LA Muskie]

What Larry Johnson said over twitter is worse than what Donald Sterling did (not said).......considering Donald Sterling didn't know he was being taped and was framed by a dumb, ugly, gold-digging dirty whore. Larry Johnson needs to go. And now.

Framed??? I do not think that word means what you think it means. He went off the deep end because she posted a photo of her and Magic on Instagram. That's not "framed."

[muskienick]

What Larry Johnson said over twitter is worse than what Donald Sterling did (not said).......considering Donald Sterling didn't know he was being taped and was framed by a dumb, ugly, gold-digging dirty whore. Larry Johnson needs to go. And now.

I believe Johnson's statements come from a mind that assumes that everyone else knows what's going through his thought processes. I am married to a person who is frequently astounded that others (i.e. I) don't understand the context of her comments even though they have nothing to do with the subject of our current conversation. Larry Johnson once said that there were a lot of ..."rebellious slaves on his team (the '99 Knicks)..." and was flabbergasted that people assumed that he was calling his teammates "slaves" instead of, one would guess, that they were just playing their own game instead of staying within the team concept.

In his recent Tweet, "Black people your (sic) Focusing on the wrong thing. We should be focusing on having our own, Own team own League! To For Self!!" It would be very easy to misunderstand this more recent Tweet of Johnson since some of it is inherently unintelligible. So who knows what the hell he actually is thinking? Hateful that he is, at least Sterling's racist utterings leave no doubt what's in his evil mind!

[PMI]

What did Larry Johnson Say?


It happened this week! Well, a black executive and former player, Larry Johnson. He said, in the wake of everything, that African Americans should be focusing on having "our OWN league." Don't bring black people to my games, don't have white people in my league, what's the difference? Do you think the media will jump all over this one? Let's face it, for right or wrong, the worst kind of racist you can be in this country in a white man who is racist against black people.

.

[xeus]

I won't judge the Archdiocese's teacher contract wording as it stands one way or the other. But I think the timing of it is rather strange considering Pope Francis' pleas to all Catholics to be more tolerant, understanding, accepting, and loving of people who are different from us by race, religion, national origin, and sexual orientation. In other words, he wants us to be more Christ-like. WWJD? He showed great respect for a prostitute, preached about a father's joy at the return of his Prodigal Son, and pointed to the Good Samaritan as an object of admiration instead of one of hate and distrust (which was typical among the Jews). It seems to me that such contract wording would have been more appropriate during the Papacy of JP II who was far more conservative in his views than Francis.

Of course, the Pope was not exactly saying "I think we should change the fundamental precepts of Catholic doctrine as a sign that we are a more "tolerant" Church. From this day forward, marriage does not have to be between a man and a woman, abortion is cool because we need to be more tolerant of the rights of women, and prostitution is no longer s in because, hey, Jesus was friendly with Mary Magdelene.

Being more Christ-like does not mean "anything goes".

[PMI]

I believe Johnson's statements come from a mind that assumes that everyone else knows what's going through his thought processes. I am married to a person who is frequently astounded that others (i.e. I) don't understand the context of her comments even though they have nothing to do with the subject of our current conversation. Larry Johnson once said that there were a lot of ..."rebellious slaves on his team (the '99 Knicks)..." and was flabbergasted that people assumed that he was calling his teammates "slaves" instead of, one would guess, that they were just playing their own game instead of staying within the team concept.

In his recent Tweet, "Black people your (sic) Focusing on the wrong thing. We should be focusing on having our own, Own team own League! To For Self!!" It would be very easy to misunderstand this more recent Tweet of Johnson since some of it is inherently unintelligible. So who knows what the hell he actually is thinking? Hateful that he is, at least Sterling's racist utterings leave no doubt what's in his evil mind!

I totally disagree. I really believe in Sterling's warped mind, he did not think he was being nearly as wrong as he was. Did you listen to the whole recording? He literally said, "You think I have an evil mind! You think I'm a racist!" He's a bigot, no doubt. But I don't think he truly believes he's as bigoted as he is.

As for Johnson, why is his "misunderstanding" any different? Why is he any less racist or ignorant?

[xeus]

I think we should have an all-Catholic league. Should have invited SLU and not Butler. I hate having smelly non-Catholics in our league.

[NY44]

As for Johnson, why is his "misunderstanding" any different? Why is he any less racist or ignorant?

Those are pretty horrible comments by Johnson. I don't know if he was talking about players or owners or both, but there is something to be said about the difference in diversity between players and executives. There are only 2 black owners in the NBA, MLB and NFL combined.

[XU 87]

I think we should have an all-Catholic league. Should have invited SLU and not Butler. I hate having smelly non-Catholics in our league.

How long have you been prejudiced against non-denominational Christians? You're obviously non-denominationalist.

[OH.X.MI]

How long have you been prejudiced against non-denominational Christians? You're obviously non-denominationalist.

I for one have been prejudiced against non-Catholics since 1536. It's the only honorable prejudice worth having.

[Juice]

I totally disagree. I really believe in Sterling's warped mind, he did not think he was being nearly as wrong as he was. Did you listen to the whole recording? He literally said, "You think I have an evil mind! You think I'm a racist!" He's a bigot, no doubt. But I don't think he truly believes he's as bigoted as he is.

As for Johnson, why is his "misunderstanding" any different? Why is he any less racist or ignorant?

Because white people have not been systematically discriminated against for most of their existence in this country.

Everyone also needs to understand that Sterling paid out the two largest settlements in US history for housing discrimination. This is not just some guy who was recorded and said some stupid things. He put his racism into practice. He affected people's lives.

[muskienick]

I totally disagree. I really believe in Sterling's warped mind, he did not think he was being nearly as wrong as he was. Did you listen to the whole recording? He literally said, "You think I have an evil mind! You think I'm a racist!" He's a bigot, no doubt. But I don't think he truly believes he's as bigoted as he is.

As for Johnson, why is his "misunderstanding" any different? Why is he any less racist or ignorant?

Please reread my post --- I did not refer to Sterling except to say that there is no misunderstanding his evil hatred and racism. Otherwise the entire post dealt with Larry Johnson. If you want to disagree with my take on him, so be it!

[muskienick]

Of course, the Pope was not exactly saying "I think we should change the fundamental precepts of Catholic doctrine as a sign that we are a more "tolerant" Church. From this day forward, marriage does not have to be between a man and a woman, abortion is cool because we need to be more tolerant of the rights of women, and prostitution is no longer s in because, hey, Jesus was friendly with Mary Magdelene.

Being more Christ-like does not mean "anything goes".

I stressed the word, 'timing,' so that people would understand that I wasn't suggesting that the Church cave in to every popular whim of the current culture. I just thought it was strange that the archdiocese chose now to go that route rather than addressing it when there was a more Conservative Pope in the Vatican. Had it been done then (and continued through 2014), we wouldn't be having 23 Letters to the Editor per day in the Enquirer ranting about the outrageous new contract wording.

[Muskie]

This guy is a bad person with a lot of $$$, and it's finally catching up to him:



In 1996, Christine Jaksy sued Sterling for sexual harassment while she was employed by him. She testified, according to an ESPN report (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/magazine/archives/news/story?page=magazine-20090601-article25): “Sterling touched her in ways that made her uncomfortable and asked her to visit friends of his for sex. Sterling also repeatedly ordered her to find massage therapists to service him sexually, telling her, ‘I want someone who will, you know, let me put it in or who [will] suck on it.’”
In 2003, the nonprofit Housing Rights Center and 19 of his tenants sued Sterling. A property supervisor testified, according to the ESPN report (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/magazine/archives/news/story?page=magazine-20090601-article25), Sterling “wanted tenants that fit his image” – meaning no blacks, Mexican-Americans, children or people receiving government housing subsidies. According to the testimony, Sterling refused to make repairs for black tenants, hunted for illegitimate causes of eviction and complained about the odor of his buildings. He allegedly said: “That’s because of all the blacks in this building, they smell, they’re not clean. And it’s because of all of the Mexicans that just sit around and smoke and drink all day. … So we have to get them out of here.” When one woman asked for repairs to a flooded and severely broken-down unit, Sterling allegedly said to the property supervisor: “Is she one of those black people that stink? … I am not going to do that. Just evict the bitch.”
In 2003, the ESPN report noted (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/magazine/archives/news/story?page=magazine-20090601-article25), Sterling employed 74 whites and zero blacks.
In 2003, Sterling and his wife sued a woman he had an affair with to recover property he gave her. Apparently, his case revolved around her being a “piece of trash.” In his deposition, Sterling said (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/nba-owner-sex-scandal?page=12): “I wouldn’t have a child and certainly not with that piece of trash. Come on. This girl is the lowest form. Wait until the men testify.”
In 2006, the Department of Justice sued Sterling for housing discrimination. The government claim he refused to rent to blacks and people with children. According to the Los Angeles Times (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/11/donald-sterling-to-pay-2725-million-to-settle-housing-discrimination-lawsuit.html), an expert found Sterling rented his Koreatown apartments to far fewer blacks and Hispanics than demographics of the area would predict. Sterling’s settlement ($2.725 million) was the largest ever in such a case.

[bobbiemcgee]

Certainly could be prosecuted but probably won't be. It's only a misdemeanor and the victim is far from sympathetic. So there's very little upside for the DA's office.

Tons of prosecutable offenses go unprosecuted every year. The DA can't prosecute every offense -- neither it nor the courts have the resources. So it has to exercise discretion, and in this instance I suspect they'll take a pass.

DTS could sue civilly, but if he was my client (and he's not) I'd advise against it for the same reason I almost always caution against bringing defamation claims. From a PR perspective it just makes things worse, and jurors typically have very little sympathy for the "bad guy wronged".

We basically don't have any 1st Amendments or privacy rights anymore anyway, so why bother. You can have a conversation with your kid, wife, lover, whore, etc. and it can go viral on the web in a couple of hours. Tough shit. Nobody gets prosecuted for it. Be careful what you say. Free Speech is now a myth. We gave it away. Big Brother and the NSA are watching every move. Don't want to lose your email of 15 yrs.? Give us your phone # or we will cancel your ass. We need to see who you are calling and what you are saying. I hope he does sue the bitch and TMZ.

[GoMuskies]

What does any of that have to do with the First Amendment? We're certainly seeing the Fourth Amendment eroded IMO, but the First Amendment seems to be working just fine.

[bobbiemcgee]

You are apparently no longer allowed to say stupid things in private without recrimination.

[xeus]

I stressed the word, 'timing,' so that people would understand that I wasn't suggesting that the Church cave in to every popular whim of the current culture. I just thought it was strange that the archdiocese chose now to go that route rather than addressing it when there was a more Conservative Pope in the Vatican. Had it been done then (and continued through 2014), we wouldn't be having 23 Letters to the Editor per day in the Enquirer ranting about the outrageous new contract wording.

You seem to be caught up in the media's stereotype of JPII as "conservative" and Francis as "liberal". While those convenient labels may play well for the press, they are far from accurate, and certainly not predictive of how a particular archdiocese might act.

[Muskie]

You are apparently no longer allowed to say stupid things in private without recrimination.

In a day and age where everyone has a video and voice recorder on their phone (and person) at all times... there isn't very much privacy anymore.

[GoMuskies]

You are apparently no longer allowed to say stupid things in private without recrimination.

He didn't get arrested. The Frist Amendment worked.

[GoMuskies]

In a day and age where everyone has a video and voice recorder on their phone (and person) at all times... there isn't very much privacy anymore.

Which, as you obviously know, makes it a Fourth Amendment issue and not a First Amendment one.

[PMI]

Because white people have not been systematically discriminated against for most of their existence in this country.

Everyone also needs to understand that Sterling paid out the two largest settlements in US history for housing discrimination. This is not just some guy who was recorded and said some stupid things. He put his racism into practice. He affected people's lives.

Believe me, I'm well aware of the history. But isn't the whole point of getting past racism and bigotry to live in a society where you are not judged or held to a different standard base on the color of your skin or your heritage? You really can't have it both ways. If the idea is to say (and don't take this crude analogy the wrong way) that it's white peoples' turns to get a shorter end of the stick in regards to what is acceptable racism, let's just say that. But the tension isn't going to go anywhere if that's the mindset.


Please reread my post --- I did not refer to Sterling except to say that there is no misunderstanding his evil hatred and racism. Otherwise the entire post dealt with Larry Johnson. If you want to disagree with my take on him, so be it!

I understood exactly what you wrote, and I disagree that Sterling's comments were undoubtably fueled by evil hatred, not because he's not an ignorant, bigoted fool, but because based on listening to the entire tape, I don't think, in his old, warped mind, he thought he was being evil or hate-filled. That's why I don't see Johnson's ignorance as anything different than Sterling's ignorance. They are both ignorant, and we can only speculate on wither of their intentions of evilness or hate.

[xeus]

Maybe Donald Sterling will give Xavier the $3million gift that UCLA self-righteously turned down.

[bobbiemcgee]

He didn't get arrested. The Frist Amendment worked.

He didn't get arrested but is certainly suffering the damning consequences of a PRIVATE conversation. Free speech is dead.

[GoMuskies]

He didn't get arrested but is certainly suffering the damning consequences of a PRIVATE conversation. Free speech is dead.

The First Amendment has nothing to do with the private consequences of your private conversation. Free speech is alive and well. But free speech has consequences. That's not changed.

[XU 87]

Maybe Donald Sterling will give Xavier the $3million gift that UCLA self-righteously turned down.

I wonder if he's a Xavier fan. We could use that $3 million to increase the assistant's salaries. LA Muskie, please call him.

[GoMuskies]

Let's get the development office on this. Fr. Graham can take Sterling's confession right before accepting the check.

[XU 87]

This guy is a bad person with a lot of $$$, and it's finally catching up to him:



In 1996, Christine Jaksy sued Sterling for sexual harassment while she was employed by him. She testified, according to an ESPN report (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/magazine/archives/news/story?page=magazine-20090601-article25): “Sterling touched her in ways that made her uncomfortable and asked her to visit friends of his for sex. Sterling also repeatedly ordered her to find massage therapists to service him sexually, telling her, ‘I want someone who will, you know, let me put it in or who [will] suck on it.’”
In 2003, the nonprofit Housing Rights Center and 19 of his tenants sued Sterling. A property supervisor testified, according to the ESPN report (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/magazine/archives/news/story?page=magazine-20090601-article25), Sterling “wanted tenants that fit his image” – meaning no blacks, Mexican-Americans, children or people receiving government housing subsidies. According to the testimony, Sterling refused to make repairs for black tenants, hunted for illegitimate causes of eviction and complained about the odor of his buildings. He allegedly said: “That’s because of all the blacks in this building, they smell, they’re not clean. And it’s because of all of the Mexicans that just sit around and smoke and drink all day. … So we have to get them out of here.” When one woman asked for repairs to a flooded and severely broken-down unit, Sterling allegedly said to the property supervisor: “Is she one of those black people that stink? … I am not going to do that. Just evict the bitch.”
In 2003, the ESPN report noted (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/magazine/archives/news/story?page=magazine-20090601-article25), Sterling employed 74 whites and zero blacks.
In 2003, Sterling and his wife sued a woman he had an affair with to recover property he gave her. Apparently, his case revolved around her being a “piece of trash.” In his deposition, Sterling said (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/nba-owner-sex-scandal?page=12): “I wouldn’t have a child and certainly not with that piece of trash. Come on. This girl is the lowest form. Wait until the men testify.”
In 2006, the Department of Justice sued Sterling for housing discrimination. The government claim he refused to rent to blacks and people with children. According to the Los Angeles Times (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/11/donald-sterling-to-pay-2725-million-to-settle-housing-discrimination-lawsuit.html), an expert found Sterling rented his Koreatown apartments to far fewer blacks and Hispanics than demographics of the area would predict. Sterling’s settlement ($2.725 million) was the largest ever in such a case.


But can he jump off one foot?

[bobbiemcgee]

We disagree with his thoughts, so he has to sell the team to Oprah or Magic at a fire sale price. Obviously, he can't say what he wants to in private.

[NY44]

Privacy may be dead, but that doesn't mean the First Amendment is.

[Muskie]

the 1st amendment protection only applies to the government trying to infringe those rights. When Mr. Sterling bought the team he agreed to abide by the NBA's guidelines. The Commissioner (who Sterling previously agreed would have the final say), has decided he failed to live by those guidelines. Donald Sterling agreed to give up some of his freedoms to own an enterprise that made him a ton of money (allegedly). His "rights" haven't been trampled one bit.

[Muskie]

Which, as you obviously know, makes it a Fourth Amendment issue and not a First Amendment one.

How were his 4th amendment rights violated?

[GoMuskies]

How were his 4th amendment rights violated?

They weren't here. But our shrinking "reasonable expectation of privacy" is more of a 4th Amendment issue than a 1st Amendment one.

[Muskie]

They weren't here. But our shrinking "reasonable expectation of privacy" is more of a 4th Amendment issue than a 1st Amendment one.

Now we're on the same page.

[Juice]

We disagree with his thoughts, so he has to sell the team to Oprah or Magic at a fire sale price. Obviously, he can't say what he wants to in private.

I don't think that's true at all. I bet he gets pretty fair value.

[xeus]

How long have you been prejudiced against non-denominational Christians? You're obviously non-denominationalist.

Ever since I showed up at Crossroads on December 25 for a free coffee and a Christmas pageant, only to find that they were closed.

[bobbiemcgee]

the 1st amendment protection only applies to the government trying to infringe those rights. When Mr. Sterling bought the team he agreed to abide by the NBA's guidelines. The Commissioner (who Sterling previously agreed would have the final say), has decided he failed to live by those guidelines. Donald Sterling agreed to give up some of his freedoms to own an enterprise that made him a ton of money (allegedly). His "rights" haven't been trampled one bit.

True. But the info Silver used to decide "he failed to live by those guidelines" was obtained illegally. No?

Full disclosure: I agree DS is a scumbag and deserves all the bad things that happen to him, but also agree with Cuban (who had a few run-in's with the League) that it is a "slippery slop."

[XU 87]

Ever since I showed up at Crossroads on December 25 for a free coffee and a Christmas pageant, only to find that they were closed.

Crossroads doesn't have church services on Christmas? How about Easter?

[bobbiemcgee]

I don't think that's true at all. I bet he gets pretty fair value.


He can sell it to a hobo for a $1 down and take back the mortgage. The NBA will reject and he can keep doing it forever.

[Kahns Krazy]

True. But the info Silver used to decide "he failed to live by those guidelines" was obtained illegally. No?

Full disclosure: I agree DS is a scumbag and deserves all the bad things that happen to him, but also agree with Cuban (who had a few run-in's with the League) that it is a "slippery slop."

It doesn't matter. I'm sure the NBA clause falls in the range of "conduct detrimental to the reputation of the league". Sterling engaged in activity that ultimately turned out to be detrimental to the league. It's not the leagues concern with the legality of the dissemination of the information. The league was damaged as a direct result of an action of Sterling. That's the rule and that is the basis for the punishment under the rule. It's also why he's allowed to be a giant racist asshole as long as nobody ever knows about it.

I think Kareem Abdul Jabbar said it best. What bugs him here is that this guy wasn't gone long before these stupid comments. He's actually committed illegal acts of discrimination before and been found culpable for them. Why then is it that a couple of comments are what pushes him over the edge?

http://time.com/#79590/donald-sterling-kareem-abdul-jabbar-racism/

[sweet16]

But can he jump off one foot?

Do you even know what that means meat?

[LA Muskie]

True. But the info Silver used to decide "he failed to live by those guidelines" was obtained illegally. No?
Doesn't matter. Whoever recorded the conversation wasn't an agent of the government. And, regardless, the repercussions weren't at the hands of the government.

[XU 87]

Do you even know what that means meat?

I do, Mr. Red Dots. Do you? (I was actually making a joke, but joking does not appear to be your "cup of tea").

And why are you such a nasty curmudgeon all of the time? You should try to be nicer to people.

[PMI]

I love sweet16. This board needs an old curmudgeon to make us feel younger and happier on rainy days such as these. Wait a second... I think I just... yes, it's all starting to make sense. He IS Donald Sterling! I apologize for doubting your prestige and connections in the past, sir.

[OH.X.MI]

They weren't here. But our shrinking "reasonable expectation of privacy" is more of a 4th Amendment issue than a 1st Amendment one.

Hopefully the Court does the right thing with Wurie. But I doubt it.

[nuts4xu]

Do you even know what that means meat?

This is about as deep on the asshole scale as you can get.

What in the hell is your problem? Are you as much of a dickhead in your real life as you are on this messageboard, or do you just get off on being an annonymous shithead? You are the least stealth cocksuc*er I have seen on any messageboard ever.

[waggy]

Is the asshole scale measured in inches?


no homo

[sweet16]

I do, Mr. Red Dots. Do you? (I was actually making a joke, but joking does not appear to be your "cup of tea").

And why are you such a nasty curmudgeon all of the time? You should try to be nicer to people.

So if you think you know what it means can you explain it to me?

[sweet16]

I love sweet16. This board needs an old curmudgeon to make us feel younger and happier on rainy days such as these. Wait a second... I think I just... yes, it's all starting to make sense. He IS Donald Sterling! I apologize for doubting your prestige and connections in the past, sir.

Hey glad to see you back.......I didn't think you posted here anymore. I thought you got involved in some big flap over changing the name of the Washington Redskins and stopped posting. Can't remember exactly but weren't you arguing, as a self proclaimed "dick connoisseur", that you would be in favor of changing the name from the Redskins to the Foreskins?

[gladdenguy]

And the latest from Shaquille O'Neal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2615765/Shaquille-ONeal-accused-bullying-DISABLED-fan-removing-Instagram-shot-mocking-mans-selfie.html

Former athletes can do no wrong. The NBA is opening up a huge can of worms. Maybe shut down the league.

[chico]

So if you think you know what it means can you explain it to me?


It looks like my front yard isn't the only place sprouting weeds this time of year.

[GoMuskies]

Mark Cuban says he's scared of black kids in hoodies. Racist. He's responsible for Trayvon Martin's death.

[SemajParlor]

Mark Cuban says he's scared of black kids in hoodies. Racist. He's responsible for Trayvon Martin's death.

Not this again..

[GoMuskies]

Donald Sterling is more hated than Bernie Madoff. I can only assume (HOPE) that is because Sterling has been in the news more recently and there are some morons out there who have never heard of Madoff. Otherwise, this seems a bit over the top. Aaron Hernandez is also less hated.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/11001769/donald-sterling-disliked-92-percent-america-according-poll

[STL_XUfan]

His family trust is going to net a $1.8 billion profit. I think a valuable lesson was learned by all.

[Muskie]

His family trust is going to net a $1.8 billion profit. I think a valuable lesson was learned by all.

Don't forget to take out about 500 million in capital gains to our friends at the federal government.

[nuts4xu]

Mark Cuban says he's scared of black kids in hoodies.

Of course he is, he is talking about the Miami Heat! His team got swept by a total of 33 points by the Heat this season. He probably has nightmares about these "kids"!

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/heat-hoodies.jpg

[chico]

Mark Cuban says he's scared of black kids in hoodies.

What about black kids on hoodies?

1447

[STL_XUfan]

Don't forget to take out about 500 million in capital gains to our friends at the federal government.

I'm sure if he knew at the time that he would lose 33% of his 1.8 billion dollar profit he would have never made the investment.

[Muskie]

Considering he bought the team for 12 mil or so he did ok

[nuts4xu]

This dude is deranged, demented, and funny as hell. I love that he called his wife a "pig". You can't insult a woman much more than calling her a "pig".

I am shocked Shelly has stayed with him as long as she has, but I am sure the financial incentive will make it worth her while.

http://www.700wlw.com/articles/sports-top-stories-104670/donald-sterling-vows-to-never-sell-12551230/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Kahns Krazy]

The best witness testifying for the incompetance of Donald Sterling so far is Donald Sterling.

In many ways, this is shameful. Dementia, which I'm 99% sure Sterling is suffering from, is not funny, and the earlier stages are very, very confusing for everyone involved. Sterling, like many early stage patients, is in 100% denial, which isn't helping anyone.

[Juice]

This dude is deranged, demented, and funny as hell. I love that he called his wife a "pig". You can't insult a woman much more than calling her a "pig".

I am shocked Shelly has stayed with him as long as she has, but I am sure the financial incentive will make it worth her while.

http://www.700wlw.com/articles/sports-top-stories-104670/donald-sterling-vows-to-never-sell-12551230/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Call a woman a "C U Next Tuesday" and prepare for a fireworks show

[Muskie]

This dude is deranged, demented, and funny as hell. I love that he called his wife a "pig". You can't insult a woman much more than calling her a "pig".

I am shocked Shelly has stayed with him as long as she has, but I am sure the financial incentive will make it worth her while.

http://www.700wlw.com/articles/sports-top-stories-104670/donald-sterling-vows-to-never-sell-12551230/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

If he's been suffering from dementia for years that likely explains why she's apart from him but not divorced (could be $). Maybe she loves the man he was ( and some people do love people who treat them badly), and not the man he's become?

[Pete Delkus]

Racism or biz conversation ?

Atlanta Hawks owner, will send team after letter leaked.


From: Bruce Levenson

Sent: 8/25/2012 11:47:02 PM

Subject: Re: Business/Game ops

1. from day one i have been impressed with the friendliness and professionalism of the arena staff -- food vendors, ushers, ticket takers, etc. in our early years when i would bring folks from dc they were blown away by the contrast between abe pollin's arena and philips. some of this is attributable to southern hospital and manners but bob and his staff do a good job of training. To this day, I can not get the ushers to call me Bruce yet they insist on me calling them by their first names.

2. the non-premium area food is better than most arenas, though that is not saying much. i think there is room for improvement and creativity. Levy is our food vendor so we don't have much control but they have been good partners. i have wished we had some inconic offereing like boog's barbeque at the baseball stadium in balt.

3. our new restaurant, red, just opened so too early for me to give you my thoughts.

4. Regarding game ops, i need to start with some background. for the first couple of years we owned the team, i didn't much focus on game ops. then one day a light bulb went off. when digging into why our season ticket base is so small, i was told it is because we can't get 35-55 white males and corporations to buy season tixs and they are the primary demo for season tickets around the league. when i pushed further, folks generally shrugged their shoulders. then i start looking around our arena during games and notice the following:

-- it's 70 pct black

-- the cheerleaders are black

-- the music is hip hop

-- at the bars it's 90 pct black

-- there are few fathers and sons at the games

-- we are doing after game concerts to attract more fans and the concerts are either hip hop or gospel.

Then i start looking around at other arenas. It is completely different. Even DC with its affluent black community never has more than 15 pct black audience.

Before we bought the hawks and for those couple years immediately after in an effort to make the arena look full (at the nba's urging) thousands and thousands of tickets were being giving away, predominantly in the black community, adding to the overwhelming black audience.

My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a signficant season ticket base. Please dont get me wrong. There was nothing threatening going on in the arean back then. i never felt uncomfortable, but i think southern whites simply were not comfortable being in an arena or at a bar where they were in the minority. On fan sites i would read comments about how dangerous it is around philips yet in our 9 years, i don't know of a mugging or even a pick pocket incident. This was just racist garbage. When I hear some people saying the arena is in the wrong place I think it is code for there are too many blacks at the games.

I have been open with our executive team about these concerns. I have told them I want some white cheerleaders and while i don't care what the color of the artist is, i want the music to be music familiar to a 40 year old white guy if that's our season tixs demo. i have also balked when every fan picked out of crowd to shoot shots in some time out contest is black. I have even bitched that the kiss cam is too black.

Gradually things have changed. My unscientific guess is that our crowd is 40 pct black now, still four to five times all other teams. And my further guess is that 40 pct still feels like 70 pet to some whites at our games. Our bars are still overwhelmingly black.

This is obviously a sensitive topic, but sadly i think it is far and way the number one reason our season ticket base is so low.

And many of our black fans don't have the spendable income which explains why our f&b and merchandise sales are so low. At all white thrasher games sales were nearly triple what they are at hawks games (the extra intermission explains some of that but not all).

Regardless of what time a game starts, we have the latest arriving crowd in the league. It often looks and sounds empty when the team takes the floor.

In the past two years, we have created a section of rowdy college students that has been a big plus. And we do a lot of very clever stuff during time outs to entertain the crowd. Our kiss cam is better done than any in the league.

We have all the same halftime acts that other arenas have but i question whether they make sense. people are on their cell phones during half time. i wonder if flashing on the scoreboard "$2 off on hot dogs during halftime tonight" just as the half ends would be a better use of our halftime dollars and make the fans happier.

We do all the usual giveways and the fans are usually their loudest when our spirit crew takes the floor to give away t-shirts. It pisses me off that they will yell louder for a t-shirt then for our players.

Our player intro is flat. We manufacture a lot of noise but because of the late arriving crowd and the fact that a lot of blacks dont seem to go as crazy cheering (another one of my theories) as whites, it is not great. Even when we have just returned from winnng four straight on the road, i am one of the few people in the arena standing and cheering when our team takes the floor. Bob has kicked around ideas like having the starters coming down aisles rather than off the bench during intros. Sounds cool but may highlight all the empty seats at the start of games.

Not enough of our fans wear hawks jerseys to games. i have just begun to push for ideas like discount food lines for folks wearing jerseys, special entrances, etc. I think we need a committed and perhaps incentivized fan club. We need to realize atl is simply different than every other city. Just adopting nba best practices is not enough. we have to create our own.

I am rambling and could probably go on forever. If you have any specific areas you would like my thoughts on, let me know.

Best,

Bruce

ps -- I have cc'd todd and ed so they can chime in with additional or different thoughts.

[OH.X.MI]

Racism or biz conversation ? [/I]

Business conversation. Mr. Levenson wasn't the most elegant in his approach to the subject, but understanding viewer demographics is a very real and very very important part of the entertainment industry. I'm a pretty staunch liberal, but to call this "racist" is insane.

[Juice]

Business conversation. Mr. Levenson wasn't the most elegant in his approach to the subject, but understanding viewer demographics is a very real and very very important part of the entertainment industry. I'm a pretty staunch liberal, but to call this "racist" is insane.

Yeah that are some slightly racist things in there but this overall is pretty benign. Also worth noting that it isn't really all that bad because ya know...Atlanta does have race issues.

[Pete Delkus]

Yeah that are some slightly racist things in there but this overall is pretty benign. Also worth noting that it isn't really all that bad because ya know...Atlanta does have race issues.

Kareem provides an interesting prospective. I get to hear conversations by marketing/marketing research folks every day, using race, gender and culture to determine product interest and buying habits. I'm sure someone/somewhere would have problems with traditional biz dialog.


http://time.com/3296175/bruce-levenson-atlanta-hawks-racist-email-kareem-abdul-jabbar/

[XU 87]

Racism or biz conversation ?

Atlanta Hawks owner, will send team after letter leaked.


From: Bruce Levenson

Sent: 8/25/2012 11:47:02 PM

Subject: Re: Business/Game ops

1. from day one i have been impressed with the friendliness and professionalism of the arena staff -- food vendors, ushers, ticket takers, etc. in our early years when i would bring folks from dc they were blown away by the contrast between abe pollin's arena and philips. some of this is attributable to southern hospital and manners but bob and his staff do a good job of training. To this day, I can not get the ushers to call me Bruce yet they insist on me calling them by their first names.

2. the non-premium area food is better than most arenas, though that is not saying much. i think there is room for improvement and creativity. Levy is our food vendor so we don't have much control but they have been good partners. i have wished we had some inconic offereing like boog's barbeque at the baseball stadium in balt.

3. our new restaurant, red, just opened so too early for me to give you my thoughts.

4. Regarding game ops, i need to start with some background. for the first couple of years we owned the team, i didn't much focus on game ops. then one day a light bulb went off. when digging into why our season ticket base is so small, i was told it is because we can't get 35-55 white males and corporations to buy season tixs and they are the primary demo for season tickets around the league. when i pushed further, folks generally shrugged their shoulders. then i start looking around our arena during games and notice the following:

-- it's 70 pct black

-- the cheerleaders are black

-- the music is hip hop

-- at the bars it's 90 pct black

-- there are few fathers and sons at the games

-- we are doing after game concerts to attract more fans and the concerts are either hip hop or gospel.

Then i start looking around at other arenas. It is completely different. Even DC with its affluent black community never has more than 15 pct black audience.

Before we bought the hawks and for those couple years immediately after in an effort to make the arena look full (at the nba's urging) thousands and thousands of tickets were being giving away, predominantly in the black community, adding to the overwhelming black audience.

My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a signficant season ticket base. Please dont get me wrong. There was nothing threatening going on in the arean back then. i never felt uncomfortable, but i think southern whites simply were not comfortable being in an arena or at a bar where they were in the minority. On fan sites i would read comments about how dangerous it is around philips yet in our 9 years, i don't know of a mugging or even a pick pocket incident. This was just racist garbage. When I hear some people saying the arena is in the wrong place I think it is code for there are too many blacks at the games.

I have been open with our executive team about these concerns. I have told them I want some white cheerleaders and while i don't care what the color of the artist is, i want the music to be music familiar to a 40 year old white guy if that's our season tixs demo. i have also balked when every fan picked out of crowd to shoot shots in some time out contest is black. I have even bitched that the kiss cam is too black.

Gradually things have changed. My unscientific guess is that our crowd is 40 pct black now, still four to five times all other teams. And my further guess is that 40 pct still feels like 70 pet to some whites at our games. Our bars are still overwhelmingly black.

This is obviously a sensitive topic, but sadly i think it is far and way the number one reason our season ticket base is so low.

And many of our black fans don't have the spendable income which explains why our f&b and merchandise sales are so low. At all white thrasher games sales were nearly triple what they are at hawks games (the extra intermission explains some of that but not all).

Regardless of what time a game starts, we have the latest arriving crowd in the league. It often looks and sounds empty when the team takes the floor.

In the past two years, we have created a section of rowdy college students that has been a big plus. And we do a lot of very clever stuff during time outs to entertain the crowd. Our kiss cam is better done than any in the league.

We have all the same halftime acts that other arenas have but i question whether they make sense. people are on their cell phones during half time. i wonder if flashing on the scoreboard "$2 off on hot dogs during halftime tonight" just as the half ends would be a better use of our halftime dollars and make the fans happier.

We do all the usual giveways and the fans are usually their loudest when our spirit crew takes the floor to give away t-shirts. It pisses me off that they will yell louder for a t-shirt then for our players.

Our player intro is flat. We manufacture a lot of noise but because of the late arriving crowd and the fact that a lot of blacks dont seem to go as crazy cheering (another one of my theories) as whites, it is not great. Even when we have just returned from winnng four straight on the road, i am one of the few people in the arena standing and cheering when our team takes the floor. Bob has kicked around ideas like having the starters coming down aisles rather than off the bench during intros. Sounds cool but may highlight all the empty seats at the start of games.

Not enough of our fans wear hawks jerseys to games. i have just begun to push for ideas like discount food lines for folks wearing jerseys, special entrances, etc. I think we need a committed and perhaps incentivized fan club. We need to realize atl is simply different than every other city. Just adopting nba best practices is not enough. we have to create our own.

I am rambling and could probably go on forever. If you have any specific areas you would like my thoughts on, let me know.

Best,

Bruce

ps -- I have cc'd todd and ed so they can chime in with additional or different thoughts.

This is what our culture has come to. You can't even discuss business demographics without being called racist and having to sell your business. Well done left wingers.

[Kahns Krazy]

I think if you can change "white" for "black" and vice versa all the way through, and it makes it not sound racist, then it isn't racist. If you did that in the case of Levenson, you would have a champion for equal rights that would be getting business awards for reaching out to the black community. If you do it in Sterling's case, it still comes across as racist.

[DC Muskie]

This is what our culture has come to. You can't even discuss business demographics without being called racist and having to sell your business. Well done left wingers.

I love reading white guys who cry about anti-racism. I forgot to attend the big white conference when all racism was officially over. Can someone send me the minutes? I need to make sure I can proper blame the left for everything.

It's great comedy really.

[GoMuskies]

Anyone who thinks that email is racist is a moron. However, there are lots of morons in the world.

[DC Muskie]

Anyone who thinks that email is racist is a moron. However, there are lots of morons in the world.

I would add two things:

1. Anyone who thinks racism is over is a moron.
2. Anyone who is upset that a multi-millionaire who agrees with the idea that his comments were inappropriate, and is now being forced to sell his share and will therefore become even richer and blames the left for all of this, is also a moron.

[GoMuskies]

Of course racism isn't over. But it's stupid shit like this that slows progress in dealing with actual racism. It's the boy that cried wolf, but that doesn't mean there's not an actual wolf.

[Kahns Krazy]

2. Anyone who is upset that a multi-millionaire who agrees with the idea that his comments were inappropriate, and is now being forced to sell his share and will therefore become even richer and blames the left for all of this, is also a moron.

There is some irony in that the huge profit Sterling realized in selling his team may have prompted Levenson to out himself as a racist and get his 9 figure "punishment".

I'll admit I'm a racist for 10 million.

[DC Muskie]

I'll admit I'm a racist for 10 million.

Exactly.

I personally didn't find a whole of things racist in that email, but I can certainly see the sensitivity to it. Really not overly worried about this soon-to-be-ex owner moving on with this life over this situation.

[XU 87]

I love reading white guys who cry about anti-racism. I forgot to attend the big white conference when all racism was officially over. Can someone send me the minutes? I need to make sure I can proper blame the left for everything.

It's great comedy really.

While my post was not specifically directed to you, it was directed to people who think and react like you. Hence, I am not surprised that you don't understand what I wrote.

[DC Muskie]

While my post was not specifically directed to you, it was directed to people who think and react like you. Hence, I am not surprised that you don't understand what I wrote.

Please don't underestimate my ability to understand what you wrote. It's pretty simple.

The left has caused a culture where people can't talk about anything in regards to race, and must do things that are patently unfair.

Together one day, you, me and the other white guys shall overcome. I have the faith!

[XU 87]

Please don't underestimate my ability to understand what you wrote. It's pretty simple.

The left has caused a culture where people can't talk about anything in regards to race, and must do things that are patently unfair.



Well done, except that as a result, it causes people to take actions, or suffer consequences, which are patently unfair, such as forcing a guy to sell his business, among many other instances that have happened.

[DC Muskie]

Well done.

Thanks! See I can be just as stupid as you! Doesn't take much work.

[PMI]

I love reading white guys who cry about anti-racism. I forgot to attend the big white conference when all racism was officially over. Can someone send me the minutes? I need to make sure I can proper blame the left for everything.

It's great comedy really.

Give me a break. There was nothing about that email that was racist, unless you consider pretty much every current black active civil rights activist a completely racist bigot. He was using demographics to try to come up with better ideas on how to sell tickets and market to people who make up a majority of his metropolitan area, yet who weren't coming to his games. In other words, he was being a responsible businessman, and he was doing so in a private email while being careful enough to mention that he did not mean to come across the wrong way, which only an unreasonable idiot could think he did. I don't know where you reached the notion that white people are crying antiracism or announcing the end of racism, but if you can't even take an honest look at something that may involve race demographics without losing your ass, that is a problem. And anyone who thinks that if it were a black business owner who had written that with all the words "black" replaced with "white," that there would be even a mildly similar backlash, they're an idiot in denial.

[XU 87]

Thanks! See I can be just as stupid as you! Doesn't take much work.

In your haste to respond to a simple "well done", you didn't allow yourself time to respond to my edited post. And this time, try to be a little factual and show a little intellect. Calling me stupid isn't really a good response from either a factual or persuasive standpoint.

I anxiously await your next response.

[Kahns Krazy]

Well done, except that as a result, it causes people to take actions, or suffer consequences, which are patently unfair, such as forcing a guy to sell his business, among many other instances that have happened.

Was Levenson forced to sell? It sounds to me like he volunteered.

In fact...


This is not Levenson's first effort to sell the team. In 2011, the Hawks' ownership group, headed by Levenson and Michael Gearon Jr., made an unsuccessful attempt to sell to California developer and pizza chain owner Alex Meruelo.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11481937/atlanta-hawks-owner-bruce-levenson-selling-team

[DC Muskie]

In your haste to respond to a simple "well done", you didn't allow yourself time to respond to my edited post. And this time, try to be a little factual and show a little intellect. Calling me stupid isn't really a good response from either a factual or persuasive standpoint.

I anxiously await your next response.

It must be the left's fault that you posted too quickly. Or the left's fault I responded too quickly in your mind, and didn't wait until you realized you needed to add more.



Well done, except that as a result, it causes people to take actions, or suffer consequences, which are patently unfair, such as forcing a guy to sell his business, among many other instances that have happened.

Yeah, there are many other instances, I'll give you one:

This is quote:

A 55-year-old Chinese American restaurateur from Georgia was pulled over for minor speeding on Interstate 10 in Alabama and detained for nearly two hours. He was carrying $75,000 raised from relatives to buy a Chinese restaurant in Lake Charles, La. He got back his money 10 months later but only after spending thousands of dollars on a lawyer and losing out on the restaurant deal.

[DC Muskie]

Give me a break. There was nothing about that email that was racist, unless you consider pretty much every current black active civil rights activist a completely racist bigot. He was using demographics to try to come up with better ideas on how to sell tickets and market to people who make up a majority of his metropolitan area, yet who weren't coming to his games. In other words, he was being a responsible businessman, and he was doing so in a private email while being careful enough to mention that he did not mean to come across the wrong way, which only an unreasonable idiot could think he did. I don't know where you reached the notion that white people are crying antiracism or announcing the end of racism, but if you can't even take an honest look at something that may involve race demographics without losing your ass, that is a problem. And anyone who thinks that if it were a black business owner who had written that with all the words "black" replaced with "white," that there would be even a mildly similar backlash, they're an idiot in denial.

I think the line about blacks scaring away white was pretty racist. But that's about the only thing I thought was a bit over the top.

I certainly can understand discussing demographics in marketing and building business. I'm just not going to get overly upset that this guy is getting out and will make money over it.

I was merely responding specifically to '87's claim that the left has caused this happen, and lately our Xavier friends from the more conservative point of view seem to lose their ass whenever race is brought up...being that all of these situations are in fact 100% reserve racism in their mind.

[waggy]

You're the moron of all morons if you think they took the chinamans money because they're racists.

[DC Muskie]

Was Levenson forced to sell? It sounds to me like he volunteered.

In fact...


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11481937/atlanta-hawks-owner-bruce-levenson-selling-team

Well it looks like the left may have done him a favor!

Oh the ironic twist! I'll take racism for $20 million Mr. Silver!

[DC Muskie]

You're the moron of all morons if you think they took the chinamans money because they're racists.


I love you waggy. Straight up reps for this.

[Pete Delkus]

Now I'm really confused.

"He's got some African in him"

So was Danny Ferry speaking of his game or personality?

Regardless, Ferry should be removed, fined, shaved, tea-bagged, stoned, beat, blinded, broiled, castrated, disfigured, etc...


The trigger of events that led to the toppling of Atlanta Hawks owner Bruce Levenson began with general manager Danny Ferry referring to free agent Luol Deng as still having "some African in him" on an organizational conference call, league sources with direct knowledge of the probe told Yahoo Sports.

"He's still a young guy overall," Ferry said, league sources with direct knowledge of the probe told Yahoo. “He's a good guy overall. But he's not perfect. He's got some African in him. And I don't say that in a bad way."

Luol Deng, considered one of the highest character players in the NBA, was born in the Sudan.
Deng, considered one of the highest character players in the NBA, was born in the Sudan.
The call with the ownership group had been set up to inform them of free-agent options on the market in July.

Ferry met with the Hawks coaches and players on Sunday and disclosed those comments with an apology, sources told Yahoo Sports.

Ferry reached out to Deng and Deng's agent, Ron Shade, on Monday, Shade told Yahoo Sports. Ferry hadn't yet spoken to Deng, but he did talk to Shade, a Chicago-based agent. "I have no reaction, but we've spoken," Shade told Yahoo.

Ferry was on the phone with seven Hawks owners and was reading off a report in which the information, Ferry said, had been gathered through a network of scouts, officials, players, coaches and others around basketball.

Hawks CEO Steve Koonin told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that Ferry had received an undisclosed punishment, but would remain as GM.

The disparaging racial reference to Deng triggered at least one team owner on the call to pursue an independent investigation into how the organization operated in regard to race. The search uncovered the 2012 email that Levenson sent to Ferry and two minority owners that ultimately led to Levenson's decision, under pressure, to sell his stake in the Hawks.

Commissioner Adam Silver met with a senior committee of owners late last week in New York, and NBA investigators outlined the findings on the probe in Atlanta, sources told Yahoo Sports. The NBA and Hawks officials helped convince Levenson to sell his majority share of the Hawks.

Ferry and Deng both played basketball at Duke University. Deng signed a free-agent deal with the Miami Heat this offseason. Atlanta did discuss a deal with him, but hadn't come close to meeting his contractual demands.

Atlanta hired Ferry as its general manager in 2012. He had served as an assistant GM twice in San Antonio, and was the GM of the Cleveland Cavaliers for five years. There had never previously been a suggestion that he had been insensitive or intolerant on issues of race.

[GoMuskies]

He's got some African in him is a disparaging racial remark? I definitely need a reflection session to learn what is a disparaging racial remark today.

[LA Muskie]

I love reading white guys who cry about anti-racism. I forgot to attend the big white conference when all racism was officially over. Can someone send me the minutes? I need to make sure I can proper blame the left for everything.

It's great comedy really.
I believe the conference was held at the Supreme Court earlier this year. Surprised you weren't invited since you're local, DC. Seriously though (I wish I didn't think I had to say that on this board, but I do...), I agree with you.

[xu82]

He's got some African in him is a disparaging racial remark? I definitely need a reflection session to learn what is a disparaging racial remark today.
He's from the Sudan. He's presumably also American (not really even sure of that status). He may be African-American. Is it OK to say that?

[DC Muskie]

He's got some African in him is a disparaging racial remark? I definitely need a reflection session to learn what is a disparaging racial remark today.

I find what Danny Ferry did to the Cavs in two separate stints disparaging.

[LA Muskie]

He's presumably also American. He may be African-American. Is it OK to say that?
Of course it is. The problem with the reference to having "some African in him" is that it is code for a racial stereotype. Is Ferry a "racist"? I have no idea. But the comment seems racially insensitive and, regardless, was certainly inappropriate in a business context.

[GoMuskies]

Which racial stereotype? That he's a crazy driver?

[xu82]

Of course it is. The problem with the reference to having "some African in him" is that it is code for a racial stereotype. Is Ferry a "racist"? I have no idea. But the comment seems racially insensitive and, regardless, was certainly inappropriate in a business context.

I agree with all that. I get it. I do have a problem with the term "African American". The only African American I personally know is a white guy rom Kenya. I don't call myself an Irish-American. I know it's evolved over time from more offensive terms, but I'm not a buyer on this one for various reasons.

[xu82]

If I have to get booted from the board for that, I just pray I get a couple billion! (It's got zero to do with race, I'm not a fan of the term as it can be misleading and therefore needs reconsideration in my opinion.)

[DC Muskie]

If I have to get booted from the board for that, I just pray I get a couple billion! (It's got zero to do with race, I'm not a fan of the term as it can be misleading and therefore needs reconsideration in my opinion.)

Yeah, that's never going to happen. White people are just going to have to get over it. To me, it's so not a big deal to call people black or African-American.

[Pete Delkus]

Of course it is. The problem with the reference to having "some African in him" is that it is code for a racial stereotype. Is Ferry a "racist"? I have no idea. But the comment seems racially insensitive and, regardless, was certainly inappropriate in a business context.

So, if we were talking about Peja Stojakovic or Zoran Dragic and I said "They are have good court vision, can shoot, neither rebounds, grouchy, they have some European in them" …now I'm a racist, or is it only against Africans?

[DC Muskie]

So, if we were talking about Peja Stojakovic or Zoran Dragic and I said "They are have good court vision, can shoot, neither rebounds, grouchy, they have some European in them" …now I'm a racist, or is it only against Africans?

I would want to know why you need to refer to anyone like that? What's the point?

[xu82]

Yeah, that's never going to happen. White people are just going to have to get over it. To me, it's so not a big deal to call people black or African-American.
I'm never going to get booted from the board? Wow! That's a relief!
I believe in accuracy and simplicity. I prefer one accurate syllable to seven syllables that may in fact be inaccurate and/or misleading. Silly me. (I know I shouldn't go here, but for some reason I can't help myself.... I am weak, but a little ornery I guess - long week already.)

[XU 87]

Pete Gillen used to call Derek Strong a "west coast" player, referring to the fact that Derek was at times too laid back and not a real aggressive player at times. I now realize how insensitive he was to those who live on the west coast.

[xu82]

I would want to know why you need to refer to anyone like that? What's the point?

Actually, I wouldn't do it quite like that, but doesn't that kind of describe the european game? I am really trying to be fair and not offensive, but I'd know exactly what that meant. I guess the difference is it described a type of game rather than (presumably) skin color?

[waggy]

Whoever coined African-American should go jaywalk in Ferguson.

[XU 87]

White people who now live in the U.S. who are originally from South Africa, are they African Americans?

[DC Muskie]

Actually, I wouldn't do it quite like that, but doesn't that kind of describe the european game? I am really trying to be fair and not offensive, but I'd know exactly what that meant. I guess the difference is it described a type of game rather than (presumably) skin color?

Grouchy is a part of the European game?

"He's young, he's not perfect, he's got some African in him." What does that mean? Probably harkens the words of Jimmy the Greek.

[DC Muskie]

Pete Gillen used to call Derek Strong a "west coast" player, referring to the fact that Derek was at times too laid back and not a real aggressive player at times. I now realize how insensitive he was to those who live on the west coast.


White people who now live in the U.S. who are originally from South Africa, are they African Americans?

If anything, I think we can all agree that us white people sure have it tough these days. What and how we refer to people who aren't white is such a landmine. We keep pushing back, one day we will overcome.

[XU 87]

I would want to know why you need to refer to anyone like that? What's the point?

Because European players have a reputation for being good shooters but not as good defenders and rebounders? Are you really offended by the use of the term "European"?

[XU 87]

Grouchy is a part of the European game?

"He's young, he's not perfect, he's got some African in him." What does that mean? Probably harkens the words of Jimmy the Greek.

Well, you tell us. What did Ferry mean?

[GoMuskies]

This is honestly bizarro world. He's got a little African in him is seriously being talked about as a racist statement. Hopefully we'll wake up tomorrow and find out we're all being trolled by the Onion.

[xu82]

White people who now live in the U.S. who are originally from South Africa, are they African Americans?

My friend Doug from Kenya who was so very proud to gain his US citizenship does not meet this definition of African American, and he's the only true African American I know. There's a problem here.

[XU 87]

If anything, I think we can all agree that us white people sure have it tough these days. What and how we refer to people who aren't white is such a landmine. We keep pushing back, one day we will overcome.

I think Pete Gillen should be kicked out of the XU HOF for being insensitive to and prejudiced against those on the west coast. Pleas prepare the petition for circulation.

[Juice]

He's from the Sudan. He's presumably also American (not really even sure of that status). He may be African-American. Is it OK to say that?

He's British

[DC Muskie]

Because European players have a reputation for being good shooters but not as good defenders and rebounders? Are you really offended by the use of the term "European"?

Grouchy? Is that a a part of their shooting or their poor defense?


Well, you tell us. What did Ferry mean?

I don't know what he meant. That's why I'm asking. Africa is a pretty big place.

[Pete Delkus]

This is honestly bizarro world. He's got a little African in him is seriously being talked about as a racist statement. Hopefully we'll wake up tomorrow and find out we're all being trolled by the Onion.

Amen.

Suspending Danny Ferry and Owner Dude has sell the Hawks...winning the battle.
Making most level headed people (of all color) roll their eyes, and tune you out...losing the war.

[DC Muskie]

I think Pete Gillen should be kicked out of the XU HOF for being insensitive to and prejudiced against those on the west coast. Pleas prepare the petition for circulation.

Why would I do that? If anything it's other people, non white people who surely want him out.

I will meet you in front of the XU HOF and make sure no one touches his stuff!

Together we can protect Pete!

[GoMuskies]

Amen.

Suspending Danny Ferry and Owner Dude has sell the Hawks...winning the battle.
Making most level headed people (of all color) roll their eyes, and tune you out...losing the war.

Solid post. I think you've got some African in you!

[DC Muskie]

This is honestly bizarro world. He's got a little African in him is seriously being talked about as a racist statement. Hopefully we'll wake up tomorrow and find out we're all being trolled by the Onion.

Maybe Ferry was making a gay slur?


Amen.

Suspending Danny Ferry and Owner Dude has sell the Hawks...winning the battle.
Making most level headed people (of all color) roll their eyes, and tune you out...losing the war.

Pete is our general in this war. I'm pretty confident of our chances.

[GoMuskies]

Maybe Ferry was making a gay slur?




Wouldn't that be unfortunate given that Danny has surely been the victim of thousands of gay slurs in his lifetime.

[Pete Delkus]

Pete is our general in this war. I'm pretty confident of our chances.

I didn't know we shared a general...Well except, General Soreness which has lead plenty of Indians to the DL.

[xu82]

He's British

So he's NOT African-American? Is there a British-African-American box to check? Are we trying way too hard here? I think so.

On a side note, it has been confirmed to us that my youngest son would have gotten into his first choice college if he had checked a certain ethnic box. My wife said her father would have rolled over in his grave had that happened. He's worked hard and may be going there for his masters, without checking the box. Earn it.