Obekpa transferring from St Johns

[D-West & PO-Z]

Looks like the Johnnies are gonna be pretty bad next year. Sampson leaves for the draft, hooper transferred, and now Obekpa. They only have 7 scholarship players left. Apparently they have no incoming recruits. Is that even possible???

[GoMuskies]

Steve Lavin sucks

[PMI]

The Big East may be worse next year than it was this year. The only teams I can see being better than us are Villanova and maybe Georgetown. We better win a lot of games next season.

[GoMuskies]

If Semaj was returning, we'd rule this two-bit league with an iron fist. As you point out, we might anyway, which could be kind of embarrassing for the league.

[The_Mack_Pack]

Sucks for the Johnnies. It's too bad that the two big media market teams are horrible.

[XU2011]

The Big East may be worse next year than it was this year. The only teams I can see being better than us are Villanova and maybe Georgetown. We better win a lot of games next season.

And hopefully they beef up the OOC. Weak OOC schedule and weak Big East schedule leaves very little room for error. Hopefully Mario and Mack schedule like we are still in the A-10 next season, but from all indicators, that doesn't appear to be the case.

[PMI]

And hopefully they beef up the OOC. Weak OOC schedule and weak Big East schedule leaves very little room for error. Hopefully Mario and Mack schedule like we are still in the A-10 next season, but from all indicators, that doesn't appear to be the case.

Our early season tournament is a joke. I mean, if we don't go 3-0, it's going to look like a major mistake to have played in it. Next year's schedule does not look to be very strong at all so yea, there's little room for error. We can afford few Seton Hall debacles next year for damn sure.

[X-Fan]

The Big East may be worse next year than it was this year. The only teams I can see being better than us are Villanova and maybe Georgetown. We better win a lot of games next season.
I think there will a lot of teams that will improve as the year goes on next year.

Providence, Seton Hall, X, GTown, and Marquette (if they can keep them) all have highly regarding recruiting classes coming in.

X, Nova, GTown, Butler, and Marquette all have good talent coming back.

So that should mean we'll have 7/10 schools with good teams. Should be a good year.

Go X!!!!

[Milhouse]

Butler won't crack the top 7 next year.

[MADXSTER]

The BE bottom 2-3 will never ever be as bad as the A10's

[Masterofreality]

Steve Lavin sucks

WTF? NO recruits?

How can you be the premier program in New York City and not have any recruits?

Then again, Jim Whitsell is the lead assistant on the staff. He used to be the Head Coach at Loyola Chicago. Fantastic as an X and O coach, but couldn't recruit worth a lick. Looks like he's taken those talents to New York City.

[D-West & PO-Z]

WTF? NO recruits?

How can you be the premier program in New York City and not have any recruits?

Then again, Jim Whitsell is the lead assistant on the staff. He used to be the Head Coach at Loyola Chicago. Fantastic as an X and O coach, but couldn't recruit worth a lick. Looks like he's taken those talents to New York City.

Yeah, even without 3 unexpected losses, there still would have been 3 open spots. How do they not have any recruits? Crazy.

[XU2011]

Our early season tournament is a joke. I mean, if we don't go 3-0, it's going to look like a major mistake to have played in it. Next year's schedule does not look to be very strong at all so yea, there's little room for error. We can afford few Seton Hall debacles next year for damn sure.

I really, really, really do not understand the rationale behind playing in that tournament. It seems like a lose-lose situation. Even if we go 3-0 (when was the last time we got 3 wins in 3 days in one of these tourneys), none of the teams in Anaheim do much at all to bolster the resume.

[XU2011]

I think there will a lot of teams that will improve as the year goes on next year.



Well that is probably the worst case scenario. All the teams really stink it up during OOC, get pretty crappy RPI's, and then improve through BE play so it's a dogfight everynight X but playing 75+, 100+ RPI teams.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I really, really, really do not understand the rationale behind playing in that tournament. It seems like a lose-lose situation. Even if we go 3-0 (when was the last time we got 3 wins in 3 days in one of these tourneys), none of the teams in Anaheim do much at all to bolster the resume.

We were supposed to be in another tournament but had to switch because of the conference realignment.

[casualfan]

The Big East may be worse next year than it was this year. The only teams I can see being better than us are Villanova and maybe Georgetown. We better win a lot of games next season.


Have you seen our OOC slate so far for next year? That plus the state of the Big East and I would certainly hope we'll win a lot of games next year.

[BMoreX]

Six scholarship players. Yikes.

[casualfan]

WTF? NO recruits?

How can you be the premier program in New York City and not have any recruits?

Then again, Jim Whitsell is the lead assistant on the staff. He used to be the Head Coach at Loyola Chicago. Fantastic as an X and O coach, but couldn't recruit worth a lick. Looks like he's taken those talents to New York City.

Lavin needed an X & O guy once Hopkins left. Insert Whitesell.

The truly remarkable thing about Lavin is that he somehow got an extension out of St. John's this year. He's been at St. John's 4 years and has been to the NCAA tourney once, his first year when he had 9 seniors left over from Norm Roberts.

Since then he has consistently recruited at a ridiculous level and perpetually underachieved.

Go back and look at his first three classes and then consider he's had 0 tournament trips with that group. It is mind boggling.

[XU2011]

We were supposed to be in another tournament but had to switch because of the conference realignment.

I understand the Orlando and Marquette thing. We could have asked for a waiver and probably received it- both Georgetown and Butler are going to Battle 4 Atlantis (by the way that tourney is Florida, North Carolina, UCLA, Georgetown, Wisconsin, Butler, Oklahoma and UAB- Wow).

Even if we don't get the wavier, I'd rather play 2 buy games at home and do 1 high major on the road (even if they don't return the game) or heck, I'd rather do 3 buy games at home. I don't see what this tournament provides, unless they switch up the teams that are in it. If it is the teams that were listed a few weeks ago, we better go 3-0 or we are coming out of their with a couple bad losses and no good wins.

[GoMuskies]

I understand the Orlando and Marquette thing. We could have asked for a waiver and probably received it- both Georgetown and Butler are going to Battle 4 Atlantis (by the way that tourney is Florida, North Carolina, UCLA, Georgetown, Wisconsin, Butler, Oklahoma and UAB- Wow).

Even if we don't get the wavier, I'd rather play 2 buy games at home and do 1 high major on the road (even if they don't return the game) or heck, I'd rather do 3 buy games at home. I don't see what this tournament provides, unless they switch up the teams that are in it. If it is the teams that were listed a few weeks ago, we better go 3-0 or we are coming out of their with a couple bad losses and no good wins.

Unless you get another exempt event, you can only replace a tournament with a single game. These exempt games count as one game against your scheduling limit. Now, if we could replace this tournament with a high-profile neutral site game, I think that would be better than going to Anaheim.

[GoMuskies]

Lavin needed an X & O guy once Hopkins left. Insert Whitesell.


He needs Whitesell AND Gene Keady?!?

[muskienick]

I'd have to think that the California tournament is just the thing a team with five freshmen and a first-year transfer need to create some cohesiveness and gain much needed experience. And it's not like we'll be playing three teams with the name recognition of an East Montana Methodist University!

[casualfan]

He needs Whitesell AND Gene Keady?!?

I don't think keady is an assistant. I remember reading something where he's like a special assistant or something and he's not allowed to do any on court coaching.

I assume Lavin isn't smart enough to relay Keady's X & O's to the players so that's where Whitesell comes in.

[Muskie]

I don't think keady is an assistant. I remember reading something where he's like a special assistant or something and he's not allowed to do any on court coaching.

I assume Lavin isn't smart enough to relay Keady's X & O's to the players so that's where Whitesell comes in.

I don't think Keady travels either so no help on the road.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think Keady travels either so no help on the road.

He was at Xavier.

[NY44]

This is a very big hit to St. Johns. Obekpa wasn't a great player by any means but he was pretty much the only inside presence they had left. Reynolds and Stainbrook will feast on them next year. Not that they didn't this year.

[LA Muskie]

We were supposed to be in another tournament but had to switch because of the conference realignment.
We didn't have to switch. We chose to.

[LA Muskie]

I understand the Orlando and Marquette thing. We could have asked for a waiver and probably received it- both Georgetown and Butler are going to Battle 4 Atlantis (by the way that tourney is Florida, North Carolina, UCLA, Georgetown, Wisconsin, Butler, Oklahoma and UAB- Wow).

Even if we don't get the wavier, I'd rather play 2 buy games at home and do 1 high major on the road (even if they don't return the game) or heck, I'd rather do 3 buy games at home. I don't see what this tournament provides, unless they switch up the teams that are in it. If it is the teams that were listed a few weeks ago, we better go 3-0 or we are coming out of their with a couple bad losses and no good wins.
The tournament provides the exemption that allows us to play 3 games for the price of 1. But this tournament sucks.

[D-West & PO-Z]

We didn't have to switch. We chose to.

Yeah, I assume we did it because it benefited us in some way? Maybe the Orlando tournament the next year will be better? Or maybe we didnt htink we would get the exemption. I was under the impression they had to petition to play in it, maybe we wouldnt have been approved? Who knows? I'm sure it wasnt XU saying for no reason whatsoever lets go to a different worse tournament and benefit it no way whatsoever.

[X-Fan]

Well that is probably the worst case scenario. All the teams really stink it up during OOC, get pretty crappy RPI's, and then improve through BE play so it's a dogfight everynight X but playing 75+, 100+ RPI teams.
Ya, good point. I was thinking that as I typed it. Oh well, it'll be a down year for the league where X can let the young guys make some mistakes.

[Juice]

Yeah, I assume we did it because it benefited us in some way? Maybe the Orlando tournament the next year will be better? Or maybe we didnt htink we would get the exemption. I was under the impression they had to petition to play in it, maybe we wouldnt have been approved? Who knows? I'm sure it wasnt XU saying for no reason whatsoever lets go to a different worse tournament and benefit it no way whatsoever.

If I heard correctly on the podcast with Mario, an exemption can only be granted if there is no other viable option. And since the Anaheim tournament was available, it was a viable option.

PS I was listening when I was working so I was in and out so I may not be fully correct on this.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If I heard correctly on the podcast with Mario, an exemption can only be granted if there is no other viable option. And since the Anaheim tournament was available, it was a viable option.

PS I was listening when I was working so I was in and out so I may not be fully correct on this.

That would make sense to me. I dont think we voluntarily would move to a crappier tournament without either not having a choice, or the future tournament being better in some way.

[XUFan09]

Even if the field is no good, it will still be three games away from home. The Selection Committee has an unhealthy obsession with teams playing games away from home and winning those games. They'll reward both the schedule "boost" and the wins, even if the competition is at best the bottom of the RPI top 75. That's why three neutral games against this caliber of opponents is still a better option than most other single games they could schedule.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

Like sucks. The ever valuable "road neutral" game.

[LA Muskie]

Yeah, I assume we did it because it benefited us in some way? Maybe the Orlando tournament the next year will be better? Or maybe we didnt htink we would get the exemption. I was under the impression they had to petition to play in it, maybe we wouldnt have been approved? Who knows? I'm sure it wasnt XU saying for no reason whatsoever lets go to a different worse tournament and benefit it no way whatsoever.

The exemption almost certainly would have been granted. Even Mario tacitly admitted it. We chose not to ask for the waiver.

The context of his comment was that technically the waiver is only supposed to be asked for and granted when there is no alternative. But practically speaking there is almost always an alternative and he admitted that we had alternatives last year but still asked for (and got) the exemption.

I think this year stung. Especially the USC loss. I think they believe we will fare better overall at this tournament without bearing the risk of a "bad" loss. Less upside but far less downside.

[casualfan]

Even if the field is no good, it will still be three games away from home. The Selection Committee has an unhealthy obsession with teams playing games away from home and winning those games. They'll reward both the schedule "boost" and the wins, even if the competition is at best the bottom of the RPI top 75. That's why three neutral games against this caliber of opponents is still a better option than most other single games they could schedule.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

I think you're underestimating how bad the field is. Here's how the rumored participants finished in the RPI this year:

Long Beach State: 166
Princeton: 122
San Diego: 156
San Jose State: 278
UTEP: 103
Washington: 104
Western Michigan: 66


Unless some of those teams make drastic improvements we're basically playing three buy games on a neutral court.

[Milhouse]

Yes but they're considered neutral court wins. which in the eyes of the committee is much more impressive.

I agree. we can't have a young team go out and get rocked 0-3 in Orlando.

Damn near crippled our team this year. sitting at 5-3 it was almost amazing we had a turnaround

[casualfan]

Yes but they're considered neutral court wins. which in the eyes of the committee is much more impressive.

I agree. we can't have a young team go out and get rocked 0-3 in Orlando.

Damn near crippled our team this year. sitting at 5-3 it was almost amazing we had a turnaround

There is one team on that list that the committee might view as a quality win, whether it's on a neutral floor or not.

I'm not buying the committee gives you much credit for beating a 103-166 RPI team, regardless of where the game is played.

As I look at that list the only thing I could see us doing in Anaheim that the committee would care about is if we were to lose a game. Otherwise I doubt the tourney will have much of an effect on our profile unless some of those teams make a big jump next year.

[XU2011]

Yes but they're considered neutral court wins. which in the eyes of the committee is much more impressive.

I agree. we can't have a young team go out and get rocked 0-3 in Orlando.

Damn near crippled our team this year. sitting at 5-3 it was almost amazing we had a turnaround

So the best case scenario is we come out of there with one OK neutral court win. Does that really compensate for the very real possibility we'd come out of there with one or two very bad neutral court losses?

Even if we go 2-1, that loss verse whoever (Long Beach St, Princeton, San Diego) is going to do more damage to the resume than a win against Western Michigan or Washington.

We need to go 3-0 in this tournament, or it won't be good. Couple that with how weak our OOC schedule is looking to be and with how weak the Big East looks to be this coming year... we have little room for error.

Honestly, where on our schedule are top 25 or even top 50 wins going to come from? 2 verse Nova and 2 verse Georgetown? Looking at the Big East rosters for next year, that's probably it, seeing as only 3 were in the Top 50 at the end of this year- X, Nova and Creighton. Hopefully, they get at least 2 top 50 games OOC, b/c as of now I don't think we have one.

I understand we have somewhat a young team (evne though we return 3/5 starters) but MAN that schedule is going to leave no room for error

[GoMuskies]

I understand we have somewhat a young team (evne though we return 3/5 starters) but MAN that schedule is going to leave no room for error

This is why getting the home and home started with Wichita State next season is so important.

[Milhouse]

UC will probably be around top 50 as well.

[LA Muskie]

I think you're underestimating how bad the field is. Here's how the rumored participants finished in the RPI this year:

Long Beach State: 166
Princeton: 122
San Diego: 156
San Jose State: 278
UTEP: 103
Washington: 104
Western Michigan: 66


Unless some of those teams make drastic improvements we're basically playing three buy games on a neutral court.
I'm not saying I agree with the strategy but reading between the lines of what Mario said on the podcast it seems clear to me that most important in our choice for next year was avoiding last year's 0-3 debacle and a really bad loss. I think they are hoping the tournament will yield 2 Top 100 and 1 Top 150 neutral court wins, but worst case scenario is going 2-1 without a bad (sub-200) loss.

[casualfan]

I'm not saying I agree with the strategy but reading between the lines of what Mario said on the podcast it seems clear to me that the most important in our choice for next year was avoiding last year's 0-3 debacle and a really bad loss. I think they are hoping the tournament will yield 2 Top 100 and 1 Top 150 neutral court wins, but worst case scenario is going 2-1 without a bad (sub-200) loss.

IF that's the case it really pisses me off. It just seems like a bitch way to schedule and it really doesn't make any sense.

"Hey how can we avoid taking a loss or losses in our exempt event?"

"Hmmm, I've got it!. Let's play in a tourney with more bad teams!"

Last year in Atlantis we played two good teams and one bad team. It appears to me that next year we'll at least be playing two bad teams and more than likely three.

[XUMIOH12]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about Chris Obekpa transferring from St. John's?

[XUFan09]

I think you're underestimating how bad the field is. Here's how the rumored participants finished in the RPI this year:

Long Beach State: 166
Princeton: 122
San Diego: 156
San Jose State: 278
UTEP: 103
Washington: 104
Western Michigan: 66


Unless some of those teams make drastic improvements we're basically playing three buy games on a neutral court.

I'm not underestimating the competition at all. I said "at best the bottom of the RPI top 75," and that matches the group precisely, particularly because most of these schools return a lot of players. There will probably be one or two borderline top 75 teams, and a couple more borderline top 100 teams.

[XUFan09]

I'm not buying the committee gives you much credit for beating a 103-166 RPI team, regardless of where the game is played.

The thing is, they are if it's away from home. It's stupid, but the Committee is in love with road/neutral games right now. Unusually big factors in the resume are the number of road/neutral games (How much did you "challenge" yourself by playing away from home?) and the road/neutral record (How did you do away from home?).

You don't have to agree with the Committee on this (Lord knows I don't), but it is what it is.

[XU2011]

The thing is, they are if it's away from home. It's stupid, but the Committee is in love with road/neutral games right now. Unusually big factors in the resume are the number of road/neutral games (How much did you "challenge" yourself by playing away from home?) and the road/neutral record (How did you do away from home?).

You don't have to agree with the Committee on this (Lord knows I don't), but it is what it is.

Where do you think a lot of that philosophy/reasoning on the committee is from regarding road wins and scheduling? I'll give you a hint... he lives in Atlanta now, and used to live in Cincinnati.

That used to benefit Xavier with our OOC scheduling philosophy. Now that we appear to have changed course on our OOC and have an absolute inability to get any road wins, it hurts us.

[The_Mack_Pack]

Back to the St. John's subject, they should fire Lavin and hire Howland. Apparently there are rumors that Rysheed Jordan might transfer now. That would send St. John's into a dark abyss for a long time.

[GoMuskies]

Back to the St. John's subject, they should fire Lavin and hire Howland.

Lavin did fail more spectacularly at UCLA than Howland did.

[SM#24]

It just seems like a bitch way to schedule
Exactly; I think everyone is over thinking the scheduling strategy. It's real simple and to quote Bobinski, "who did you play, where did you play them, and how did you do."

I've seen plenty of teams with good records not get in the tournament because they didn't play anyone and/or didn't leave home. But I don't recall seeing teams with OK records (e.g., 17-13, 18-12) but playing a monster schedule get penalized if they have some decent wins. I'd rather we go 9-5 with 5-5 vs. RPI top 50 OOC than 12-2 but only 2-2 against the top 50. We will be rewarded much more for those 3 additional top 50 wins than penalized for the three additional losses. Everyone thinks if we schedule too many hard teams, we will lose them all; if that's the case, then we don't deserve to play in the tourney.
IMO, this move to the Big East should not have changed our OOC scheduling philosophy one bit.
If I was making the schedule for our 14 OOC, I would schedule 4-5 home buy games against RPI 100-175 type teams, play a tough 3/4 game exempt tourney, and then play the best teams we could get for home and home series (or perhaps toss in a good neutral top 50 RPI game).
I don't care how many or how few players we have returning or how many freshman we have coming, we should never be saying that game or that tourney is too hard.

[XUFan09]

Where do you think a lot of that philosophy/reasoning on the committee is from regarding road wins and scheduling? I'll give you a hint... he lives in Atlanta now, and used to live in Cincinnati.

That used to benefit Xavier with our OOC scheduling philosophy. Now that we appear to have changed course on our OOC and have an absolute inability to get any road wins, it hurts us.

I agree with the importance of road and neutral games. I don't agree with the amount of weight they receive when the opponents aren't very good.

[MADXSTER]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about Chris Obekpa transferring from St. John's?

Silly rabbit. The thread is only for the first 4 reply's. After that it is open season.

[PMI]

Even if the field is no good, it will still be three games away from home. The Selection Committee has an unhealthy obsession with teams playing games away from home and winning those games. They'll reward both the schedule "boost" and the wins, even if the competition is at best the bottom of the RPI top 75. That's why three neutral games against this caliber of opponents is still a better option than most other single games they could schedule.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

You're right as it regards the selection committee, but I still think this tournament is a bad idea. We can point out best case scenarios, and we end up with a situation where we might get rewarded for beating two bad teams and one OK team away from home, which is fine. But all the other scenarios are not good ones. What if we play three really bad teams and lose a game or two? If you're going to take the chance in a exemption tournament, you need to have good competition, or at least decent competition. Scheduling an easier tournament because you think you have a better chance to win it with a young team or whatever is a loser mentality. Scheduling a neutral or road game against a top 25 type team is the better way to go.

[nuts4xu]

How does Lavin not have ANY players committed for next year? He was supposed to lose 3, now he is losing 6, and they have NO prospects signed for next season. They only have 7 scholarship players on their roster right now. If they don't land a few quality juco's they are going to struggle mightily next season.

[LA Muskie]

I honestly don't know how he still has a job. And I'm probably a Lavin sympathizer.

[hoyahooligan]

The Big East may be worse next year than it was this year. The only teams I can see being better than us are Villanova and maybe Georgetown. We better win a lot of games next season.


I think the BE will definitely better next year than it was this year. I think 7 of the 10 teams will Definitely be better than they were last year with 1 that could go either way in Marquette. The only teams that will definitely be worse are Creighton and St. John's.

I think BE gets 5 teams into the tournament this year: Nova, Georgetown, Xavier, Providence and then one of Seton Hall, Butler, Creighton, or Marquette. Nova is a legit national title threat. Georgetown will be much improved. Xavier shouldn't miss a beat.

I think the league underachieved this past year and was rather unlucky. Georgetown, Marquette, and Providence were all hampered by injuries.

[PMI]

I think the BE will definitely better next year than it was this year. I think 7 of the 10 teams will Definitely be better than they were last year with 1 that could go either way in Marquette. The only teams that will definitely be worse are Creighton and St. John's.

I think BE gets 5 teams into the tournament this year: Nova, Georgetown, Xavier, Providence and then one of Seton Hall, Butler, Creighton, or Marquette. Nova is a legit national title threat. Georgetown will be much improved. Xavier shouldn't miss a beat.

I think the league underachieved this past year and was rather unlucky. Georgetown, Marquette, and Providence were all hampered by injuries.

I hope you're right. Seton Hall has a good class coming, but count me among those who will need to see Seton Hall be decent for the first time in years before I'll believe it. I think Butler will still be a mess. Still no ball handlers, a main offensive threat who takes horrible shot after shot, and a questionable coaching staff. I don't see them being a postseason team. Creighton, Depaul and St. John's will be awful. Providence loses Cotton although I think they're well-coached and should still be tough, but I don't think I'd put them as a sure-fire tournament team. Marquette is clearly in a transition period, although it wouldn't shock me if they were still tough. I think Villanova, Xavier, and Georgetown will be the three best teams, but there are a lot of question marks around the rest of the league. We better have a lot of OOC wins and signature wins...

[Muskie]

Looks like Obekpa will he coming back now. (link (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/13/report-chris-obekpa-will-likely-return-to-st-johns/))

“Every day that Obekpa hasn’t transferred leads me to believe that he’s going to stay with St. John’s,” a source told Rubin. “I don’t know if the problem is sitting out a season, getting away from New York or (something) else.”
The 6-foot-9 sophomore instantly became a target for schools such as Baylor, Oregon and UCLA. Obekpa averaged 3.9 points, 4.8 rebounds and 2.9 blocks per game in his sophomore season.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Obekpa officially coming back to St John's - http://www.redstormsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041814aaa.html