Regional Head of NLRB says Northwestern can Unionize

[PM Thor]

The Chicago branch of the National Labor Relations Board ruled that the football players meet the criteria as employees, and as such, have the right to unionize. This is the first round of a multi-tiered judiciary process that will happen, but this very well may reshape the face of collegiate athletics. (The President Emeritus of Northwestern said that he could possibly see giving up Div 1 football if it happens).

I honestly don't know how this is going to play out, but the ramifications for every college and collegiate athlete are pretty huge.


http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/26/us/northwestern-football-union/index.html

[xsteve1]

The Chicago branch of the National Labor Relations Board ruled that the football players meet the criteria as employees, and as such, have the right to unionize. This is the first round of a multi-tiered judiciary process that will happen, but this very well may reshape the face of collegiate athletics. (The President Emeritus of Northwestern said that he could possibly see giving up Div 1 football if it happens).

I honestly don't know how this is going to play out, but the ramifications for every college and collegiate athlete are pretty huge.


http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/26/us/northwestern-football-union/index.html

This ruling is only for private institutions for now. It could still be overturned with appeals.

[PM Thor]

Yep, but it's a pretty huge step when the student/athlete is recognized as an employee. It will definitely go through the whole appeals process but just the very idea that they were recognized as employees to me is the hard part to overturn.

[muskiefan82]

Only a union could mess up college sports more than the BCS.

[PM Thor]

I'm just going to let that go.....but the question at hand is the ruling. They have defined the football team as employees. When that happens, union or not, there are specific rights they are granted. Hell, just meeting minimum wage standards, for example.

[Masterofreality]

My Gawd, what next?

[LadyMuskie]

My Gawd, what next?

The end of college sports as we know them. Well done, everyone. Well done.

[OH.X.MI]

[QUOTE=PM Thor;444331]
I honestly don't know how this is going to play out, but the ramifications for every college and collegiate athlete are pretty huge.


Ramifications are pretty huge for all of us who love college sports as well.

[paulxu]

Now what we need is for Weez to organize X.

[Masterofreality]

The end of college sports as we know them. Well done, everyone. Well done.

The NLRB is made up of individuals appointed by the President.

Hard to guess which way they might lean in a case like this. :headscratch:

[OH.X.MI]

The NLRB is made up of individuals appointed by the President.

Hard to guess which way they might lean in a case like this. :headscratch:

After the probably the most contested appointment process in American history. NLRB members are hardly all left leaning and certainly are not who Obama hoped to have appointed when he was elected. Whether that's a good or bad thing I have no opinion.

[NY44]

I have a serious question about how this can possibly play out. If they win this and become employees who earn a wage or salaries, do schools stop paying for their education? If so, what happens to the sports that aren't profitable?

[Dblue]

I have a serious question about how this can possibly play out. If they win this and become employees who earn a wage or salaries, do schools stop paying for their education? If so, what happens to the sports that aren't profitable?

So if they become employees and earn a wage, don't they lose eligability with the NCAA?

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

[QUOTE=PM Thor;444331]
I honestly don't know how this is going to play out, but the ramifications for every college and collegiate athlete are pretty huge.


Ramifications are pretty huge for all of us who love college sports as well.

Hey! Look what it did for the pros!!! Donald Fehr. Alan Eagleson. Billy Hunter. DeMaurice Smith.*

Oy Vey.

* Marvin Miller was awesome however.

[Caveat]

The end-game for all this is the discontinuation of athletic scholarships, in general.

But, I highly doubt that the courts uphold this ruling. It'll be a historical footnote and the subject of many law review articles.

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

Caveat is Correct.

[Muskie]

Have these "employees" figured out that they'll have to pay taxes on all these benefits ? Not to mention report all the perks as income?

[NY44]

It really seems that nothing will come of this or it will bring an end to college athletics. I just can't foresee a model where paying unproven 18 year-olds is feasible for a University.

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

I just can't foresee a model where paying unproven 18 year-olds is feasible for a University.

Really? Kentucky's been doing it for years.

[Caveat]

The schools are still run by the university presidents -- and the university presidents are still academics at heart. Most of them will voluntarily choose to eliminate their athletic departments before they accept a model that pays players anything beyond a small living stipend.

There will still be Ohio State football, for example, but it'll be made up of kids on financial aid and student loans instead of full schollies. Life will go on. For the rest of the world in the mid-major conferences, it'll be a convenient excuse to eliminate a money-loser for their universities.

[Masterofreality]

This is a classic case of people, with lawyers pushing behind them, committing suicide...and not even realizing it.

[Caveat]

This is a classic case of people, with lawyers pushing behind them, committing suicide...and not even realizing it.

The people who SHOULD be pissed off about all this are the kids on rowing scholarships or field hockey scholarships -- if college athletes get unionized and start being paid, where do you think the first cuts are going to come in order to pare down the size of AD budgets in order to pay the football team?

[STL_XUfan]

Have these "employees" figured out that they'll have to pay taxes on all these benefits ? Not to mention report all the perks as income?

Duke Tuition is 45k a year, so what is that tax bill for student coming from an underprivileged background? But hey Florida and Texas will own everyone since they have no income tax.

[LadyMuskie]

Have these "employees" figured out that they'll have to pay taxes on all these benefits ? Not to mention report all the perks as income?

Not to mention the union dues they'll have to pay. Really well thought-out.

[PM Thor]

Not to mention the union dues they'll have to pay. Really well thought-out.

Do you even know what union members pay for dues? I pay like 1%. Don't even act like that is a big deal. (and Hell YEAH I will pay that for collective bargaining)


The people who SHOULD be pissed off about all this are the kids on rowing scholarships or field hockey scholarships -- if college athletes get unionized and start being paid, where do you think the first cuts are going to come in order to pare down the size of AD budgets in order to pay the football team?

Again, like I said, the union part isn't the "scary" part, it's the recognition of the players as employees. That applies across the board to ALL athletes.

But your point is valid, the non revenue generating sports are going to get crushed if this goes through. Not to mention the womens sports, how exactly will Title IX work after this ruling? It should be irrelevant, as if the government would be sanctioning gender affirmative action to the extreme.

SOOOOOO many questions to be answered. I'm totally intrigued to follow this out.

[waggy]

Public employee unions should be blown up with live explosives.

[PM Thor]

public employee unions should be blown up with live explosives.

I hope you get an angry rabid squirrel in your pants.

I apologize. fucking dayton.

[waggy]

I haven't had any sleep for 30 hours. That might be part of the problem.

[LadyMuskie]

Do you even know what union members pay for dues? I pay like 1%. Don't even act like that is a big deal. (and Hell YEAH I will pay that for collective bargaining)

Well. Let's see. Do I know about unions dues? Hmmm . . . you tell me.

My husband worked for a union when we dated in college and when we first got married. I did our taxes back then, so I was more than privy to his pay stubs and what was taken out for what purposes.

Then there's my grandfathers who were both union members for their entire lives. I could tell you their opinions on the unions that governed the work they did, but you'd probably think I was lying or that you're the only one who knows anything about unions, so what's the point.

There's also the tale of my two best friends who worked for Kroger for a time before they quit because the dues took such a big chunk of their paychecks that it wasn't worth working there anymore. Being best girlfriends, we talked a lot and shared a lot, so I was pretty in touch with what their dues were.

Is that enough, or do you still think you're the only one who knows anything about union dues?

[PM Thor]

Oh that's great. What did your husband pay percentage wise when you did the taxes? Or your grandfathers? Again, I'll make this simple, do you even know what union members pay in dues? Please. Tell me, give me a percentage of their pay. Don't use hyperbole, don't use this "they said it sucked" Bs.

I asked if you knew what they paid in dues. Throwing out all those connections, while fine, doesn't tell me a damn thing.

And Kroger? Kroger has a horrible union. Great. Throw every union under the bus for that travesty.

[PM Thor]

Lady, I'm sorry, I'm just so beyond pissed I'm just waylaying into everyone and anyone. This is the worst night of my life, and that includes the night my Ma died. At least that night she had some peace. This night?

[GoMuskies]

Lady, I'm sorry, I'm just so beyond pissed I'm just waylaying into everyone and anyone. This is the worst night of my life, and that includes the night my Ma died. At least that night she had some peace. This night? fuck dayton.

Wow, PM is so messed up that he didn't sign this post "I hate Dayton". Someone needs to go check on him!

[PM Thor]

I AM NOT HAVING A GOOD NIGHT. I cannot sleep. I am beyond angry. I can't focus. Have you ever been there? Where you can't express what's happening?

My wife came out of the bedroom, saw what I looked like, and went right back into the bedroom.

I have no words. No words anymore. I'm going to go sit in the dark, no tv, no internet, no nothing. Just stewing. FUCK THIS,

[Kahns Krazy]

Thor, in all seriousness, I hope you read your rants whenever you wake up today and are embarrassed like you should be. You are acting like a child because of a basketball game, and attacking people for no reason, and apparently have scared your own wife.

Seriously, man. Think about it.

[Muskie]

I AM NOT HAVING A GOOD NIGHT. I cannot sleep. I am beyond angry. I can't focus. Have you ever been there? Where you can't express what's happening?

My wife came out of the bedroom, saw what I looked like, and went right back into the bedroom.

I have no words. No words anymore. I'm going to go sit in the dark, no tv, no internet, no nothing. Just stewing. FUCK THIS,

Was the couch comfy?

[X-band '01]

1416

[NY44]

Is there really any difference between being in a union and being a student athlete in the NCAA?

[Masterofreality]

Watch,

The next thing that the lawyers behind this will demand is that the players' union dues and any expenses thereof in the setup, as well as any taxes due on "wages" be covered by the Institutions...

...You know, because said players were "recruited and solicited to attend" said Institution. As if they were coerced under pressure to do so under penalty of not being able to attend any Institute of Higher Learning at all.

[nuts4xu]

If the athletes are paid employees, then they can be fired right? There were more than a few times I wanted a college player or two fired from their job.

I was raised in a union house, and have seen the good unions can have. It isn't the fact they are unionizing, it is the possibility this will turn into an awful union like the UFCW (Kroger union) who does more harm than good to their work force.

[Masterofreality]

After the probably the most contested appointment process in American history. NLRB members are hardly all left leaning and certainly are not who Obama hoped to have appointed when he was elected. Whether that's a good or bad thing I have no opinion.

Yes, well, the "Regional Head of this NLRB" is in Chicago. Peter Sung Ohr, - appointed by Obama in December, 2011 with no contest...probably because the other side of the aisle didn't think there would be any significant consequence. Prior to that he worked in the Washington Federal Office of the Assistant General Counsel. There's that fact.

I'm sure that Mr. Ohr was known to people in the Administration and I would guess that he was fully vetted to "make sure" (Obama's favorite term) that he would be sympathetic to the "correct" side in cases like this where unions would be enhanced.

By the way, there's this too, from the LA Times:

"The next step almost certainly will be a review of the ruling by the full NLRB. But Northwestern's prospects seem little better there, considering that the board (most of whose members are Democrats appointed by President Obama) has been notably more sympathetic to unionization than the NLRB was under President George W. Bush."

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-nlrb-northwestern-football-players-employees-can-unionize-20140326,0,856376.story#ixzz2xHFrryR8

That is the collateral damage when you elect Presidents. You get a whole lot more than just one guy.

[PM Thor]

Was the couch comfy?

The floor was, actually.

[Juice]

This article from today's Washington Post is all kinds of awful: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/nlrb-ruling-on-northwestern-football-players-wont-help-what-ails-college-athletics/2014/03/29/054e2942-b6af-11e3-b84e-897d3d12b816_story.html

[Masterofreality]

Yep, the first two sentences in that article say it all:

"It’s hard to view Northwestern quarterback Kain Colter as the Che Guevara of college sports once you learn that he interned at Goldman Sachs. There’s a fundamentally specious premise at the heart of the Northwestern unionization movement, and it’s this: that college athletes are exploited and aggrieved.

Yes, college players are expected to practice and play hard in exchange for the privilege of attending a university without having to incur a quarter-million dollars in student loans. That’s the deal."

[coasterville95]

Did she at least throw a pillow out to you?

[xubrew]

Has anyone actually taken the time to read their list of grievances??

Here are some of them.

-They want a cap on the amount of class time players are allowed to miss. Is it ridiculous to not want to miss your Thursday afternoon classes, and all of Friday classes, for a Saturday game?? Did you know that for week night football games, (IE Thursday Night TV games), coaches typically treat those as Saturday games. This means changing the practice schedule so what you do on a typicall Wednesday is what you're doing on Monday. It also means checking into a hotel on Wednesday afternoon and missing all of Wednesday and Thursday classes, even if they're at home. The STUDENT ATHLETES at Northwestern have an issue with that.

-They want guaranteed medical coverage. In football, it is not uncommon for a player to have a season ending or career ending injury. It's also not uncommon for the football coaches and athletic department staff to pressure the training room into only worrying about treating the guys that can play. It's a waste of time and resources to work with the guys that can't. Players also lose their scholarships, and are unable to continue to receive treatment, if they receive a career ending injury. This actually occurs, and the players want that changed.

-They want the 20 hour practice rules amended, so you're actually only practicing for 20 hrs and not 45. Maybe if the NCAA would actually enforce it's own rules, and if the schools would abide by the actual spirit of those rules, they wouldn't feel so compelled to take such a drastic action.

-They don't want coaches to call mandatory meetings on less than a day's notice at times that conflict with practice, and pressuring players to miss class in order to be there.

-They don't like having a very limited option of majors because of required classes for those majors that not only overlap practice, but overlap "voluntary" workouts.


You know what isn't on their list of demands?? A salary.


I think every issue that they have is well thought out, and absolutely in need of reform. I know that the idea of a union makes everyone cringe, but college athletics, and FBS football in particular, is in MAJOR need of reform. I mean....several of their issues involve the NCAA enforcing rules that are already in place. How is that ridiculous?? There isn't a single thing that they want that is unfair or greedy. I don't think they're doing anything other than addressing how they're being abused and taken advantage of by coaches and administrators who are unfair and greedy.

Everyone thinks these kids are way out of line and acting spoiled, and I just don't get why. I don't think they're spoiled at all. In fact, I think they're right. These are changes that should be made. I'd much rather see them made without the formation of a union, but if that's the only way they're going to get the NCAA to actually address this, then I do support their decision.

[bjf123]

Have to say I agree with all of those. Wonder what else is in their grievance?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LA Muskie]

Everyone thinks these kids are way out of line and acting spoiled, and I just don't get why. I don't think they're spoiled at all. In fact, I think they're right. These are changes that should be made. I'd much rather see them made without the formation of a union, but if that's the only way they're going to get the NCAA to actually address this, then I do support their decision.
I think they are used and abused. The rationale of the NCAA and the schools is akin to what farmers used to tell themselves when they employed immigrant farm labor: They should be happy with what we give them. I agree that major reform is necessary. And frankly I think the power conferences welcome it to some extent. This could actually be the impetus for a breakoff and/or new division that allows the profitable schools to improve the working conditions of their labor...er...student athletes

[muskiefan82]

Has anyone actually taken the time to read their list of grievances??

Here are some of them.

-They want a cap on the amount of class time players are allowed to miss. Is it ridiculous to not want to miss your Thursday afternoon classes, and all of Friday classes, for a Saturday game?? Did you know that for week night football games, (IE Thursday Night TV games), coaches typically treat those as Saturday games. This means changing the practice schedule so what you do on a typicall Wednesday is what you're doing on Monday. It also means checking into a hotel on Wednesday afternoon and missing all of Wednesday and Thursday classes, even if they're at home. The STUDENT ATHLETES at Northwestern have an issue with that.

-They want guaranteed medical coverage. In football, it is not uncommon for a player to have a season ending or career ending injury. It's also not uncommon for the football coaches and athletic department staff to pressure the training room into only worrying about treating the guys that can play. It's a waste of time and resources to work with the guys that can't. Players also lose their scholarships, and are unable to continue to receive treatment, if they receive a career ending injury. This actually occurs, and the players want that changed.

-They want the 20 hour practice rules amended, so you're actually only practicing for 20 hrs and not 45. Maybe if the NCAA would actually enforce it's own rules, and if the schools would abide by the actual spirit of those rules, they wouldn't feel so compelled to take such a drastic action.

-They don't want coaches to call mandatory meetings on less than a day's notice at times that conflict with practice, and pressuring players to miss class in order to be there.

-They don't like having a very limited option of majors because of required classes for those majors that not only overlap practice, but overlap "voluntary" workouts.


You know what isn't on their list of demands?? A salary.


I think every issue that they have is well thought out, and absolutely in need of reform. I know that the idea of a union makes everyone cringe, but college athletics, and FBS football in particular, is in MAJOR need of reform. I mean....several of their issues involve the NCAA enforcing rules that are already in place. How is that ridiculous?? There isn't a single thing that they want that is unfair or greedy. I don't think they're doing anything other than addressing how they're being abused and taken advantage of by coaches and administrators who are unfair and greedy.

Everyone thinks these kids are way out of line and acting spoiled, and I just don't get why. I don't think they're spoiled at all. In fact, I think they're right. These are changes that should be made. I'd much rather see them made without the formation of a union, but if that's the only way they're going to get the NCAA to actually address this, then I do support their decision.

If this represents the truth of the request then a union isn't needed, but an actual legislative body that enforces reasonable limits and regulations for student athletes. I find these requests to be reasonable and well within what should be considered appropriate. Crazy it has to go this far to bring it to light.

[xubrew]

If this represents the truth of the request then a union isn't needed, but an actual legislative body that enforces reasonable limits and regulations for student athletes. I find these requests to be reasonable and well within what should be considered appropriate. Crazy it has to go this far to bring it to light.

Yes, it is crazy that it needs to go this far. A union shouldn't be needed, but since these kinds of things are so largely ignored, then maybe it is needed....or at least the threat of a union is needed. In fact, they're still being ignored. I thought the article from the Washington Post was awful as well. It interjected all kinds of baseless speculation into it, and ignored what it is that they're actually asking for.

[xubrew]

So, we're a week away, and the NCAA doesn't appear to be doing anything.

Again, if a union isn't necessary, then why the hell isn't anyone addressing their concerns??

A union should not be necessary, but if the people in charge just keep ignoring them, can you really blame them??

[Juice]

So, we're a week away, and the NCAA doesn't appear to be doing anything.

Again, if a union isn't necessary, then why the hell isn't anyone addressing their concerns??

A union should not be necessary, but if the people in charge just keep ignoring them, can you really blame them??

Blogs have posted different universities talking points on why unionization is bad idea. Very noble for a school president or AD who makes 6 figures and up tell young men what they can and cannot do.

[xubrew]

Blogs have posted different universities talking points on why unionization is bad idea. Very noble for a school president or AD who makes 6 figures and up tell young men what they can and cannot do.

Unionization may be a bad idea. It may not be a bad idea.

Ignoring these guys, and dismissing their concerns, and doing nothing other than saying that unionizing is a bad idea...IS A VERY BAD IDEA!!!

If it's a bad idea, then the people in charge should listen to them, because if they don't, then it greatly increases the likelihood that they'll go through with it.

[PM Thor]

Again, and I'll say it over. The union argument is irrelevant. It's the "employee" part that is important. People are skipping over this aspect and jumping straight to "unionization". You can't unionize if you aren't an employee. Get it?

[xubrew]

Meanwhile, in North Carolina....

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/10955829/state-employees-association-north-carolina-union-welcomes-student-athletes