The State of the Program

[Caveat]

Poll is above.

Where is the Xavier Muskateers program right now?

[Masterofreality]

Poll is above.

Where is the Xavier Muskateers program right now?

Do you do graphics for ESPN?

MuskAteers?

[LA Muskie]

We just played our inaugural season in the Big East. Requiem or not, it was a huge step up from the A-10 (tourney bids this year notwithstanding). I don't see how anyone could vote anything other than "up."

[ChicagoX]

Mack is a good, but not great coach. He seems to recruit well but doesn't do as good of a job developing players the way his predecessors did. I see this program routinely going to the NCAA Tournament under his watch, but I don't anticipate us getting back to the level of routine Sweet 16s like we did with Matta, Miller and earlier in Mack's career when he had a loaded line-up of Miller's players.

Mack's teams just don't have the discipline, intensity, consistency and defensive prowess needed to win conference titles and routinely advance deep into the tourney. I see plenty of 20-win seasons, top 5 finishes in the Big East and decent seeding, but then frequently ending the season with losses in the round of 64 or 32. I don't think X will win many Big East titles or NCAA games with Mack as the coach. I know he started hot, but I think Mack might have hit his ceiling with Sweet 16 appearances in two of his first three seasons.

Xavier will still be a solid program, but I just don't think you will see us playing in the second weekend of the tournament as we've been accustomed to the past decade.

Does anyone here think we are better off with Mack compared to Matta or Miller? This isn't a knock on Mack because as I said above, he's a good, but not great coach. At the end of the day, he just isn't as good of a head coach as the two who came before him, and it's tough as fans because we saw this program peak this past decade under the best two coaches in our history. Anything less than that seems like underachievement, unrealistic as it may be.

[kyxu]

[QUOTE=ChicagoX;441721]Mack is a good, but not great coach. He seems to recruit well but doesn't do as good of a job developing players the way his predecessors did. I see this program routinely going to the NCAA Tournament under his watch, but I don't anticipate us getting back to the level of routine Sweet 16s like we did with Matta, Miller and earlier in Mack's career when he had a loaded line-up of Miller's players. [QUOTE]

Matta didn't make it past the second round and to the Sweet 16 until his third and final year at Xavier. Mack made more Sweet 16s than Matta at Xavier, so you could say he did so more "routinely" than Matta did at X. Sean Miller at Xavier has also been to the same number of Sweet 16s as Chris Mack, but has only been one step further.

[Caveat]

Do you do graphics for ESPN?

MuskAteers?

That's about the most genuinely embarrassing thing I've done this year.

[muskiefan82]

X made it to the NCAA Tournament after a year in which they stayed home - Trending up
X has an excellent recruiting class coming in next year - Trending up
X is now in the Big East, with A-10 players, yet still made the NCAA Tournament - Trending up

Let's see how it goes next year before people start losing their minds.

[GoMuskies]

By the way, I hate the line about us having "A-10 players". We never had A-10 players. We had damn good players who mostly dominated the A-10. The way some people talk about the conference move you'd think our 2008 Elite Eight team would have struggled to win 10 Big East games.

[xsteve1]

[QUOTE=ChicagoX;441721]Mack is a good, but not great coach. He seems to recruit well but doesn't do as good of a job developing players the way his predecessors did. I see this program routinely going to the NCAA Tournament under his watch, but I don't anticipate us getting back to the level of routine Sweet 16s like we did with Matta, Miller and earlier in Mack's career when he had a loaded line-up of Miller's players. [QUOTE]

Matta didn't make it past the second round and to the Sweet 16 until his third and final year at Xavier. Mack made more Sweet 16s than Matta at Xavier, so you could say he did so more "routinely" than Matta did at X. Sean Miller at Xavier has also been to the same number of Sweet 16s as Chris Mack, but has only been one step further.

Matta also never lost in the first round at X. Comparing Mack to 2 top 10 coaches nationally is not fair at this point.

[XU-XHI]

Mack is a good, but not great coach. He seems to recruit well but doesn't do as good of a job developing players the way his predecessors did.

Philmore - Improved, Stainbrook - Improved from WM, Martin-Improved, Semaj - Improved, Dee - Slightly Improved, Farr - Vastly Improved (ways to go), M. Davis & Reynolds & Randolph - first year (Reynolds - In season Improvement). Last Season: Taylor - Improved. Yep, they sure don't develop players.

[kyxu]

[QUOTE=kyxu;441724][QUOTE=ChicagoX;441721]Mack is a good, but not great coach. He seems to recruit well but doesn't do as good of a job developing players the way his predecessors did. I see this program routinely going to the NCAA Tournament under his watch, but I don't anticipate us getting back to the level of routine Sweet 16s like we did with Matta, Miller and earlier in Mack's career when he had a loaded line-up of Miller's players.

Comparing Mack to 2 top 10 coaches nationally is not fair at this point.

Not that I consider Matta a top 10 coach, but why can't Mack's accomplishments here be compared to Matta's and Miller's accomplishments at Xavier? It's not like Matta and Miller were both hired at Xavier as top 10 coaches.

[LadyMuskie]

By the way, I hate the line about us having "A-10 players". We never had A-10 players. We had damn good players who mostly dominated the A-10. The way some people talk about the conference move you'd think our 2008 Elite Eight team would have struggled to win 10 Big East games.

I agree. We spent years fighting for the A10 to be recognized as a major program, and now all we do is look down upon it because we moved on. Funny, but I don't remember Sato, Cage, Burrell, etc. being just A10 players when we were marching along. I watched the tournament final against VCU and SJU and I came away thinking that our so-called A10 players would have had a difficult time beating either of those A10 teams on Sunday.

[ChicagoX]

Philmore - Improved, Stainbrook - Improved from WM, Martin-Improved, Semaj - Improved, Dee - Slightly Improved, Farr - Vastly Improved (ways to go), M. Davis & Reynolds & Randolph - first year (Reynolds - In season Improvement). Last Season: Taylor - Improved. Yep, they sure don't develop players.

Stainbrook was the biggest surprise of the season and got into great shape after his transfer. Martin finally developed confidence in his jump shot and we finally got to see the player we thought he could become.

Christon is a freak of a player but never developed the jumper we had all hoped would happen. Farr showed flashes early in the year but regressed mightily as the season wore on, resulting in not seeing a minute in last night's game. The same could be said for Myles Davis. I have seen little improvement from Dee, particularly on his shooting ability, but he is more of a MAC-level point guard. Philmore showed modest improvements, but nothing dramatic. Brandon Randolph also appeared to regress a bit as the season wore on.

I wasn't trying to bash Mack with my post. Just calling it as I see it. He's a good coach and Xavier will still be a solid program under him, but I just don't expect to see the same results that we saw the past decade with five Sweet 16s and a pair of Elite 8s. I expect a lot of NCAA appearances but advancing to the second weekend becoming far less common than we've become accustomed to seeing.

[xsteve1]

[QUOTE=xsteve1;441734][QUOTE=kyxu;441724]

Not that I consider Matta a top 10 coach, but why can't Mack's accomplishments here be compared to Matta's and Miller's accomplishments at Xavier? It's not like Matta and Miller were both hired at Xavier as top 10 coaches.

When Mack took over the X program was in great shape and was loaded. When Matta took over X was coming off an embarrassing loss to ND and only 1 NCAA win in like 9-10 years, Miller took over a program that was talented but young and in a rebuilding mode. Those 2 coaches brought defensive toughness to the program which is something that seems to be missing at this point.

[kyxu]

[QUOTE=kyxu;441742][QUOTE=xsteve1;441734]

When Mack took over the X program was in great shape and was loaded. When Matta took over X was coming off an embarrassing loss to ND and only 1 NCAA win in like 9-10 years, Miller took over a program that was talented but young and in a rebuilding mode. Those 2 coaches brought defensive toughness to the program which is something that seems to be missing at this point.

When Matta took over, he had Chalmers, Sato, and David Freaking West. The program was not wanting for talent. And by your very rationale with Matta, when Miller took over, the program was coming off an Elite Eight appearance. Hardly a moribund program state.

[xu82]

That's about the most genuinely embarrassing thing I've done this year.

Give yourself a break, the year is young and this will be small potatoes soon enough...

[XUGRAD80]

I voted not sure. Better than last year as far as wins, but also a more talented and deeper team than last year. But played a tougher schedule this year. Did the TEAM progress well from beginning to end of season, either year? I don't think so, however there were some players that seemed to have gotten better as the year progressed...Reynolds,Stainbrook, Martin, but there were also players that may have regressed some....M Davis, Farr. the recruiting class coming in is by all accounts the best ever at X, and there have been some real clunkers during Mack's tenure, so that would seem to be improving. But, the class for 2016 is empty at this point, so what the future will bring there is unknown. How the incomers will do is unknown, but keep in mind that many of the other BE schools have outstanding recruiting classes coming in, some of them are rated higher than Xavier's also. I admit to really not being sure what the program wil, do in the near future. I optimistically feel that the time of X making it to the final 4 will someday come, but how soon I can't say. I think that next year is a make or break year for Mack. If they finish worse than they did this year in the BE and don't make the tourney, then you would have to say the program is going backwards. I think that this year....21 wins, 3rd in BE, tourney appearance ......would be the median level for this program.

[xsteve1]

[QUOTE=xsteve1;441752][QUOTE=kyxu;441742]

When Matta took over, he had Chalmers, Sato, and David Freaking West. The program was not wanting for talent. And by your very rationale with Matta, when Miller took over, the program was coming off an Elite Eight appearance. Hardly a moribund program state.

The talent was there but Matta brought a defensive toughness that was missing was able to put those guys in position to take X to new heights. If Matta had never shown up at X I seriously doubt were talking about all these elite 8's and Sweet 16's these last ten years.

[XU2011]

Matta didn't make it past the second round and to the Sweet 16 until his third and final year at Xavier. Mack made more Sweet 16s than Matta at Xavier, so you could say he did so more "routinely" than Matta did at X. Sean Miller at Xavier has also been to the same number of Sweet 16s as Chris Mack, but has only been one step further.

I would hope the expectations of the Xavier program have increased significantly in 2014 compared to where they were in 2001.

[Masterofreality]

That's about the most genuinely embarrassing thing I've done this year.

Props. Takes a big man to admit his mistakes. :biggrin:

[XU2011]

The more I read on here, but more so many of you sound like UD fans.

Satisifed with mediocrity. Our regular season was mediocre for Xavier expectations. The post-season was mediocre for Xavier expectations. Last year was significantly short of Xavier expectations.

And we are all fine talking about how we are in the Big East and we have such a stellar recruiting class coming in. When our only hope through Feb and March is next year's recruiting class... that isn't the Xavier program that I know.

[XU2011]

We just played our inaugural season in the Big East. Requiem or not, it was a huge step up from the A-10 (tourney bids this year notwithstanding). I don't see how anyone could vote anything other than "up."

Trending upward when compared to the disaster of last year and the underwhelming performance this year? Yes, I hope we would be trending upward.

When compared to the level of success this program has achieved over the last 6-7 years, no, we are certainly not trending upward.

[Masterofreality]

[QUOTE=kyxu;441724][QUOTE=ChicagoX;441721]Mack is a good, but not great coach. He seems to recruit well but doesn't do as good of a job developing players the way his predecessors did. I see this program routinely going to the NCAA Tournament under his watch, but I don't anticipate us getting back to the level of routine Sweet 16s like we did with Matta, Miller and earlier in Mack's career when he had a loaded line-up of Miller's players.

Matta also never lost in the first round at X. Comparing Mack to 2 top 10 coaches nationally is not fair at this point.

No, but in DWests' Senior Year, with a great roster, he had a walk over in Round 1 and lost to a mediocre Maryland team in the second round because h e stubbornly wouldn't change defenses.

[xsteve1]

[QUOTE=xsteve1;441734][QUOTE=kyxu;441724]

No, but in DWests' Senior Year, with a great roster, he had a walk over in Round 1 and lost to a mediocre Maryland team in the second round because h e stubbornly wouldn't change defenses.

I'll give you that. While the regular season was excellent that flameout against Maryland was awful.

[bleedXblue]

I think the coach and some of his philosophies are stagnant. I think there are serious issues with his defense in particular. I think he can recruit and I think he can get better. I hope he considers changing some things and bringing a higher level of expectation around how hard to you have to play and the commitment level needed to win consistently.

[Masterofreality]

[QUOTE=xsteve1;441734][QUOTE=kyxu;441724]

No, but in DWests' Senior Year, with a great roster, he had a walk over in Round 1 and lost to a mediocre Maryland team in the second round because h e stubbornly wouldn't change defenses.


[QUOTE=Masterofreality;441767][QUOTE=xsteve1;441734]

I'll give you that. While the regular season was excellent that flameout against Maryland was awful.

By the way, for those with short memories...That loss was worse than last night as to a performance. it was the First game on a Sunday afternoon and was the National Coast to Coast game. It was so bad that the network cut away from it with 7 minutes to go.

Chris Mack didn't coach that game.

[kyxu]

I would hope the expectations of the Xavier program have increased significantly in 2014 compared to where they were in 2001.

I would hope so, too, but the bar wasn't terribly high when Matta came in. We were a routine one-and-done program and continued to be that way until his last year.

[xubball1993]

My annual fan goals for Xavier (in chronological order):
1. Beat UC
2. Beat Dayton, wait, scratch that.
2. Win 20+ games.
3. Win regular season conference and/or conference tournament (thus, no bubble bs)
4. Sweet 16
Anything less, this spoiled fan is disappointed. Anything more, I'm elated.

[vee4xu]

I haven't voted yet. I want to vote Trending Upward/Improving, but not there yet. The closest one to what I think is Can't Tell, but that doesn't capture it for me. I guess right now I am in the Jury's Out stage based on the transfers, expulsions and other changes that have occurred over the past two years. Without knowing how the new frosh will pan out, how Farr and Reynolds progress from year one to year two and who is still here based on players potentially transferring it is tough to gauge for me at the moment.

My hope is Trending Upward/Improving, but as I said, Jury's Out for me.

[vee4xu]

My annual fan goals for Xavier (in chronological order):
1. Beat UC

Hold that thought, it too may be a wait, scratch that based on the upcoming decision to continue the series, or not.

[Masterofreality]

My annual fan goals for Xavier (in chronological order):
1. Beat UC

Hold that thought, it too may be a wait, scratch that based on the upcoming decision to continue the series, or not.

This too. You're on a roll Vee.

[vee4xu]

This too. You're on a roll Vee.

Here's hoping it's forward, MOR. :nudgewink:

[Muskie in NY]

I'm surprised no one has commented on six A-10 teams making it to the tournament this year. Clearly, there is an assumption being made that the A-10 was more talented than the Big East this year. Whether that is true or not is debatable, but as a person that once heavily advocated for the A-10 I have to give the conference respect. If we assume the NCAA has at least some expertise in evaluating teams then it is reasonable to assume that we would not have done well in the A-10 this year had we not moved to the Big East. If A-10 teams do well in the tournament I'll be much more inclined to vote we are regressing.

Coach Mack does not seem to have a history of winning games were teams are equal to us in talent, or when teams have are more talented than us. Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, and dare I say NC State all had less depth and talent. I seem to be noticing other coaches doing more with less. I think Coaches are developing better offensive and defensive schemes, being more strategic in personnel match-ups against us, are more prepared due to better scouting reports, and are developing players more effectively.

There was no excuse for Semaj lack of development on his jump shop. Most of his trouble is due to poor form, he has a bit of a push shot with not enough snap in his elbow and wrist. Also can someone explain to me why no one has helped him incorporate the jump stop into his game? That would be deadly, he probably wouldn't need to work on his jump shot so drastically.

Regarding proper scouting reports, did anyone watch the Inside-Access coverage of Creighton before their game against us? They were practicing our freaking offensive scheme in the hallway! I was nothing short of impressed. It was no wonder we had difficulty penetrating, and that's beside the fact that our flex offensive is truly simple to figure out.

I know I just bashed Chris Mack there. However, let it be known I'm still a fan, and he is showing signs of improvement. I understand he isn't perfect, but I think we need to start addressing the man's weaknesses. I personally understand his loss to NC State, I feel terrible about what happened to his family during that car accident. He seemed physically drained during his pregame interview, despite his attempts to conceal it. I hope many Xavier Nation fans wished him and his family a speedy recovery.

[paulxu]

If we assume the NCAA has at least some expertise in evaluating teams then it is reasonable to assume that we would not have done well in the A-10 this year had we not moved to the Big East.

I'm not sure. I am sure about how you spell assume.

[BandAid]

Regarding proper scouting reports, did anyone watch the Inside-Access coverage of Creighton before their game against us? They were practicing our freaking offensive scheme in the hallway! I was nothing short of impressed. It was no wonder we had difficulty penetrating, and that's beside the fact that our flex offensive is truly simple to figure out.

I'm pretty sure every team does that. It's not too difficult for coaches to pick up on a team's basic offensive scheme. It's the wrinkles, match ups, and adjustments that make the difference.

[Filthy Conservative]

Yeah, semaj needs more snap in elbow...thread....jumping ....shark.

Sent from my M886 using Tapatalk 2

[XUFan09]

It's not like Creighton locked Xavier down, either. In the three games against them, Xavier scored 1.14, 1.10, and 1.28 points per possession. All good marks.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[xavierj]

I'm surprised no one has commented on six A-10 teams making it to the tournament this year. Clearly, there is an assumption being made that the A-10 was more talented than the Big East this year. Whether that is true or not is debatable, but as a person that once heavily advocated for the A-10 I have to give the conference respect. If we assume the NCAA has at least some expertise in evaluating teams then it is reasonable to assume that we would not have done well in the A-10 this year had we not moved to the Big East. If A-10 teams do well in the tournament I'll be much more inclined to vote we are regressing.

Coach Mack does not seem to have a history of winning games were teams are equal to us in talent, or when teams have are more talented than us. Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, and dare I say NC State all had less depth and talent. I seem to be noticing other coaches doing more with less. I think Coaches are developing better offensive and defensive schemes, being more strategic in personnel match-ups against us, are more prepared due to better scouting reports, and are developing players more effectively.

There was no excuse for Semaj lack of development on his jump shop. Most of his trouble is due to poor form, he has a bit of a push shot with not enough snap in his elbow and wrist. Also can someone explain to me why no one has helped him incorporate the jump stop into his game? That would be deadly, he probably wouldn't need to work on his jump shot so drastically.

Regarding proper scouting reports, did anyone watch the Inside-Access coverage of Creighton before their game against us? They were practicing our freaking offensive scheme in the hallway! I was nothing short of impressed. It was no wonder we had difficulty penetrating, and that's beside the fact that our flex offensive is truly simple to figure out.

I know I just bashed Chris Mack there. However, let it be known I'm still a fan, and he is showing signs of improvement. I understand he isn't perfect, but I think we need to start addressing the man's weaknesses. I personally understand his loss to NC State, I feel terrible about what happened to his family during that car accident. He seemed physically drained during his pregame interview, despite his attempts to conceal it. I hope many Xavier Nation fans wished him and his family a speedy recovery.

How can you say Semaj didn't improve his shot? That is not factually true. He went from a 25% three point shooter to a 38% three shooter and took more shots. He also increased his overall fg%. I thought his mid range jumper was better as well. If anything he probably should have shot more outside shots. his drive to the basket hoping for a foul was his weakness. As for the other stuff i would say Xavier was about 8th in the league in regards to talent. Creighton, Nova, St. John's, Providence, Marquette, Georgetown and even Seton Hall had more overall talent than Xavier did in my opinion. who, other than Semaj and Justin, who people wanted to run out of town, are very talented? Stain is just a hard worker, Jalen has talent but is raw and the rest are mediocre role players.

[GoMuskies]

It's not like Creighton locked Xavier down, either. In the three games against them, Xavier scored 1.14, 1.10, and 1.28 points per possession. All good marks.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

That may have been locking down for Creighton. They're horribleN defensively, which is why they have no shot in the Tournament unless they're white hot every game (other than the opener). Not impossible since they're the #1 offense in the country, but not likely to happen five times in a row.

[Muskie in NY]

,

[Muskie in NY]

How can you say Semaj didn't improve his shot? That is not factually true. He went from a 25% three point shooter to a 38% three shooter and took more shots. He also increased his overall fg%. I thought his mid range jumper was better as well. If anything he probably should have shot more outside shots. his drive to the basket hoping for a foul was his weakness. As for the other stuff i would say Xavier was about 8th in the league in regards to talent. Creighton, Nova, St. John's, Providence, Marquette, Georgetown and even Seton Hall had more overall talent than Xavier did in my opinion. who, other than Semaj and Justin, who people wanted to run out of town, are very talented? Stain is just a hard worker, Jalen has talent but is raw and the rest are mediocre role players.
Not only are you under estimating our players talent, your not giving the Coaches in the Big East nearly enough credit. How do you not include Farr and Randolph on that list? Farr fell off because we refused to help him develop a reverse pivot. Also for some reason we didn't reinforce his ability to tip balls in. James Farr has the ability to be as influential for our team as Jerami Grant is for SU. Randolph was showing strokes of brilliance and at least deserved some time when Myles was going 1-22 behind the arc. Who on Seton Hall is all that special. You have Starks and Smither-Rivera on Geogetown, Mayo and Gardner on Marquette, St. Johns really only has Sampson and Harrison. I'm seeing teams with maybe two good players on their teams. As for Providence all season they only had Cotton. But now I have to admit Fortune and Harris are really playing well. As for Creighton they have Wragge and McDermott. Every once and a while a random player goes off because of heavy concentration on those two players. I don't see incredibly deep teams.

Semaj only went 67% from the line. He may have only had a better three-point percentage because he took more of them this year. Not necessarily because he got better at them.

[wkrq59]

First, we are still Xavier. All follows from that. Any time I see a sentence that ends with the phrase, "Anything less is unacceptable," I immediately rank everthing said before it as "suspicious," as my urologist once said but no longer says about my prostate.
How could this Xavier season past not have been a success and next season not be bright? Easy. The half-emptiers, negative Normans and worse can always find a way. Fie on them. It's at times like these I genuinely miss Gary Griffin, Mr. Neutral and his sensibility.
Look, the sages, gurus, reporters, commentators, columnists and others producing pages and opinions for dollars and aiding our economy know about as much as you or I or any other Xavier fan or member of our Xavier Nation. So why do we focus on and insist on taking their words as gospel and always true and even honest? Because it's always very nice to find someone who agrees with what we think and allegedly knows more about something than we do. After all, if it's in the newspaper, on the radio or television or now on the internet, it must be true! Must it not????
Simply put, Xavier's future is bright. Not blinding or sparkling or any other superlative, just bright--especially if Semaj Christon comes back and doesn't make the mistake of thinking he's ready for the NBA. Let's assume he comes back and save the "He's ready" arguments for another time.
Next season we'll have three seniors, three juniors, two or three sophomores and five freshmen available , a coaching staff that probably has spend more than one year together and the fact that eight of our 13 scholarship players have Big East experience which is a helluva lot more than we had this year. There also may be a chance to tone down the non-conference season just a bit.
There will of course be greater than probably realized expectations which there usually are, but if, and it's a big IF, It is a constant competition for the talented freshmen to crack the finishing lineup, Xavier men's basketball may be one of the hardest tickets in America to get, home or away.

:slapfight::laugh::drinks2::drool:

[xavierj]

Not only are you under estimating our players talent, your not giving the Coaches in the Big East nearly enough credit. How do you not include Farr and Randolph on that list? Farr fell off because we refused to help him develop a reverse pivot. Also for some reason we didn't reinforce his ability to tip balls in. James Farr has the ability to be as influential for our team as Jerami Grant is for SU. Randolph was showing strokes of brilliance and at least deserved some time when Myles was going 1-22 behind the arc. Who on Seton Hall is all that special. You have Starks and Smither-Rivera on Geogetown, Mayo and Gardner on Marquette, St. Johns really only has Sampson and Harrison. I'm seeing teams with maybe two good players on their teams. As for Providence all season they only had Cotton. But now I have to admit Fortune and Harris are really playing well. As for Creighton they have Wragge and McDermott. Every once and a while a random player goes off because of heavy concentration on those two players. I don't see incredibly deep teams.

Semaj only went 67% from the line. He may have only had a better three-point percentage because he took more of them this year. Not necessarily because he got better at them.

Underestimating our talent? Says you. We had one guy on our that was higher than a 3 star. Brandon Randolph was a freshman that also had one other offer, Wyoming. James Far was not recruited by any other big east team, but Loyola offered him. I think you may be overestimating the talent. It was slim. But the guys tried hard. Oh and Semaj shot 77% on free throws in conference. The first month was just really bad for him.

[Smails]

. He may have only had a better three-point percentage because he took more of them this year. Not necessarily because he got better at them.

Wait....what? Doesn't basic logic dictate that if you take more 3 point shots and shoot them at a higher percentage, then you've improved?

[ammtd34]

Farr fell off because we refused to help him develop a reverse pivot.

You have to be kidding me.

[bigdiggins]

Semaj only went 67% from the line. He may have only had a better three-point percentage because he took more of them this year. Not necessarily because he got better at them.

When I read this all I could think was "if it hadn't been for my horse I wouldn't have spent that year in college."
Seriously, as I read it again blood actually did begin to spurt out my nose and I fear I'll be found dead of an aneurysm tomorrow morning.

[RealDeal]

This is good comedy.

[XUGRAD80]

Q once again shows the benefit of years of experience, and the ability to look at things through the perspective of time.

[boozehound]

Wait....what? Doesn't basic logic dictate that if you take more 3 point shots and shoot them at a higher percentage, then you've improved?

Yes. It does. This guy is insane, or drunk.

My biggest knock on Semaj's outside shooting is that he didn't take more 3 point shots. I think he should have taken an 1-2 early 3's in every game. If he makes them he can keep shooting them. 38% isn't a great percentage from 3 point range, but it isn't terrible. I thought he needed to take more outside shots, if for no other reason than to stretch the defense.

The best we looked all season was against UC when Semaj was taking, and making, 3 pointers.

[RealDeal]

As for Providence all season they only had Cotton.

Did you watch Providence play this year, even once? Or look at some box scores? Batts? Henton? Hello?

Idiocy.

[drudy23]

My biggest knock on Semaj's outside shooting is that he didn't take more 3 point shots. I think he should have taken an 1-2 early 3's in every game. If he makes them he can keep shooting them. 38% isn't a great percentage from 3 point range, but it isn't terrible. I thought he needed to take more outside shots, if for no other reason than to stretch the defense.

The best we looked all season was against UC when Semaj was taking, and making, 3 pointers.

Agreed...he had plenty of opportunity to shoot them. Hell, half the defenders would play off him knowing he likely wouldn't shoot them. If I had to guard him, I'd do the same thing. My only chance would be to give him a step or two. You have to be able to knock down shots when they give them to you.

[DC Muskie]

Here's a breakdown of our records beginning with Skip's first year to the current season:

1995–96 Xavier 13–15 8–8 3rd*(West)
1996–97 Xavier 23–6 13–3 1st*(West) NCAA 2nd Round
1997–98 Xavier 22–8 11–5 T–1st*(West) NCAA 1st Round
1998–99 Xavier 25–11 12–4 2nd*(West) NIT 3rd Place
1999–00 Xavier 21–12 9–7 3rd*(West) NIT 2nd Round
2000–01 Xavier 21–8 12–4 T–2nd NCAA 1st Round
Xavier: 125–60 (.694) 65–31 (.677)

2001–02 Xavier 26–6 14–2 1st NCAA Second Round
2002–03 Xavier 26–6 15–1 1st NCAA Second Round
2003–04 Xavier 26–11 10–6 T–4th NCAA Elite Eight
Xavier: 78–23 (.772) 39–9 (.813)

2004–05 Xavier 17–12 10–6 T–2nd*(West)*
2005–06 Xavier 21–11 8–8 T–7th NCAA First Round
2006–07 Xavier 25–9 13–3 T–1st NCAA Second Round
2007–08 Xavier 30–7 14–2 1st NCAA Elite Eight
2008–09 Xavier 27–8 12–4 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
Xavier: 120–47 (.719) 55–22 (.714)

2009-2010 Xavier 26–9 14–2 T–1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2010-2011 Xavier 24–8 15–1 1st NCAA Second Round
2011-2012 Xavier 23–13 10–6 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2012-2013 Xavier 17–14 9–7 T–6th
2013-2014 Xavier 21–13 10–8 T–3rd NCAA First Round
Xavier: 111–57 (.661) 58–24 (.707)


Skip 0.694
Thad 0.772
Sean 0.719
Mack 0.661

One could look at that and say with Mack we are regressing. But there is so much more than just records. I like Mack and I agree that he is a good but not great coach. He isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so my hope is that he can continue to build towards competing for a BE title, making runs in the tournament and watching people freak out when we have a little dip.

Our little dips are when we only win 17 games. I'd get concerned if we totally bottomed out. Until then enjoy the ride.

[XfansinKy]

Here's a breakdown of our records beginning with Skip's first year to the current season:

1995–96 Xavier 13–15 8–8 3rd*(West)
1996–97 Xavier 23–6 13–3 1st*(West) NCAA 2nd Round
1997–98 Xavier 22–8 11–5 T–1st*(West) NCAA 1st Round
1998–99 Xavier 25–11 12–4 2nd*(West) NIT 3rd Place
1999–00 Xavier 21–12 9–7 3rd*(West) NIT 2nd Round
2000–01 Xavier 21–8 12–4 T–2nd NCAA 1st Round
Xavier: 125–60 (.694) 65–31 (.677)

2001–02 Xavier 26–6 14–2 1st NCAA Second Round
2002–03 Xavier 26–6 15–1 1st NCAA Second Round
2003–04 Xavier 26–11 10–6 T–4th NCAA Elite Eight
Xavier: 78–23 (.772) 39–9 (.813)

2004–05 Xavier 17–12 10–6 T–2nd*(West)*
2005–06 Xavier 21–11 8–8 T–7th NCAA First Round
2006–07 Xavier 25–9 13–3 T–1st NCAA Second Round
2007–08 Xavier 30–7 14–2 1st NCAA Elite Eight
2008–09 Xavier 27–8 12–4 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
Xavier: 120–47 (.719) 55–22 (.714)

2009-2010 Xavier 26–9 14–2 T–1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2010-2011 Xavier 24–8 15–1 1st NCAA Second Round
2011-2012 Xavier 23–13 10–6 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2012-2013 Xavier 17–14 9–7 T–6th
2013-2014 Xavier 21–13 10–8 T–3rd NCAA First Round
Xavier: 111–57 (.661) 58–24 (.707)


Skip 0.694
Thad 0.772
Sean 0.719
Mack 0.661

One could look at that and say with Mack we are regressing. But there is so much more than just records. I like Mack and I agree that he is a good but not great coach. He isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so my hope is that he can continue to build towards competing for a BE title, making runs in the tournament and watching people freak out when we have a little dip.

Our little dips are when we only win 17 games. I'd get concerned if we totally bottomed out. Until then enjoy the ride.
Thanks for the info DC. I agree that by what I'm reading coach Mack's not going anywhere. With that said, why not pull for him to get this figured out and get X back to where they were before he was named head coach? It's going to be a tough off-season with not as much positives to look back on like we have become accustomed to. I guess for me I'll choose to look forward since that's the case. Players can make coaches look really good or bad too so let's hope this class coming in actually is as good as advertised.

[_LH]

Mack is a better coach and has done more for XU that both Skip and Pete. Matta won with Skip's players and had David West (National POY), Chalmers and Sato - some of the all time greatest players to ever play at XU. Matta recruited none of them.

Miller had this program humming. I really believe if he stays, Brown stays and XU is a final four team.

I love XU and want them in the Final 4 every year but I realize XU is not that kind of program.

Under Mack, a final four and even national title can be accomplished. The future is bright.

[DC Muskie]

Here's another thought.

Mack is going to be viewed more like Skip than Matta and Miller. For one he will have been with the program as a coach (head or assistant) longer than both Matta and Miller combined soon. If he makes the tournament then flames out, then the Skip comparison will intensify. Great guy, good coach, not able to get back over the hump. And those Sweet 16 appearances from earlier in his career will be distant memory.

But let's step back and realize something. We are in much better shape then say Purdue. Or right now Indiana. UC is going to struggle with their transition, I believe in a conference that will continue to produce less bids as long as they keep their nonconference schedule as weak as it is.

I'm not terribly happy about how this season ended. Mostly because I think we blew a great opportunity. Right now we have a very stupid basketball team, that hasn't established a defensive core that they can rely on, like we did in the Matta/Miller/Mack first two years. We need that back. Let's work on getting smarter and playing tougher defense and we will see even better days.

[danaandvictory]

Forty losses in three seasons is really not good at all. Hopefully next year he gets things rolling.

[DC Muskie]

Forty losses in three seasons is really not good at all. Hopefully next year he gets things rolling.

Nova lost 45 games from 2010-2013. I agree, not great, but people weren't about to fire Jay Wright either. I'm confident next season, especially if Semaj stays, which I think he will, we get things rolling.

[_LH]

Forty losses in three seasons is really not good at all. Hopefully next year he gets things rolling.

What does "get things rolling" me to you? XU made the Sweet 16 during the time of those 40 losses.

[XU-XHI]

As for the other stuff I would say Xavier was about 8th in the league in regards to talent. Creighton, Nova, St. John's, Providence, Marquette, Georgetown and even Seton Hall had more overall talent than Xavier did in my opinion.

Totally agree. I would remove St. John's from that list, athletic but not all basketball talent, but otherwise X's talent was basically just under all of those. Tells you something about coaching and player effort when you consider what X had to overcome in pure talent and youth.

[danaandvictory]

What does "get things rolling" me to you? XU made the Sweet 16 during the time of those 40 losses.

With an immensely talented and experienced team, X crapped completely down its leg after the brawl, barely made the tournament, and then beat a 15-seed in the second round. I don't consider that particularly impressive. Had Tu's miracle shots against Dayton or Notre Dame late not gone down (or GW's three layups at the buzzer in DC, etc.), that would be by some distance the most disappointing team in XU history. They did, and it was awesome, but I'm not one of those that evaluates a team entirely on what they do in the postseason. Hell, the previous year's team, which went 15-1 in A-10 play with a bench consisting of Andrew Taylor, Kevin Feeney, and Jeff Robinson but lost to Marquette in the first round, was the best coaching job Mack has done since his arrival.

Also, this has been covered.

[_LH]

With an immensely talented and experienced team, X crapped completely down its leg after the brawl, barely made the tournament, and then beat a 15-seed in the second round. I don't consider that particularly impressive. Had Tu's miracle shots against Dayton or Notre Dame late not gone down (or GW's three layups at the buzzer in DC, etc.), that would be by some distance the most disappointing team in XU history. They did, and it was awesome, but I'm not one of those that evaluates a team entirely on what they do in the postseason. Hell, the previous year's team, which went 15-1 in A-10 play with a bench consisting of Andrew Taylor, Kevin Feeney, and Jeff Robinson but lost to Marquette in the first round, was the best coaching job Mack has done since his arrival.

Also, this has been covered.

But they did make the Sweet 16.

What does "get things rolling" me to you?

[nuts4xu]

2009-2010 Xavier 26–9 14–2 T–1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2010-2011 Xavier 24–8 15–1 1st NCAA Second Round
2011-2012 Xavier 23–13 10–6 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2012-2013 Xavier 17–14 9–7 T–6th
2013-2014 Xavier 21–13 10–8 T–3rd NCAA First Round
Xavier: 111–57 (.661) 58–24 (.707)

One could look at that and say with Mack we are regressing. But there is so much more than just records.

I agree, and thanks for the write up.

The dip in Mack's tenure also coincided with expulsion of Dez Wells. I have a tough time believing this team would have suffered through the past 2 seasons the same if he was on our roster. His situation had nothing to do with Coach Mack, yet looking at the numbers above, the loss of Wells had a big impact on this program.

This is water under the bridge at this point, and I have a lot of confidence in C Mack. He has done a great job getting this team to 17 and 21 wins the past 2 seasons. With as bad as we were in the 12/13 season, 17 wins was a monumental accomplishment in my opinion. If coach can get this band of cast offs and goggle wearing misfits to play competitive basketball, I can't wait to see what he can do with a group of kids that are reportedly even more talented.

Coach Mack is a Great American, and I look forward to the day when he hangs a final four banner above the court in Cintas Center.

[XfansinKy]

I agree, and thanks for the write up.

The dip in Mack's tenure also coincided with expulsion of Dez Wells. I have a tough time believing this team would have suffered through the past 2 seasons the same if he was on our roster. His situation had nothing to do with Coach Mack, yet looking at the numbers above, the loss of Wells had a big impact on this program.

This is water under the bridge at this point, and I have a lot of confidence in C Mack. He has done a great job getting this team to 17 and 21 wins the past 2 seasons. With as bad as we were in the 12/13 season, 17 wins was a monumental accomplishment in my opinion. If coach can get this band of cast offs and goggle wearing misfits to play competitive basketball, I can't wait to see what he can do with a group of kids that are reportedly even more talented.

Coach Mack is a Great American, and I look forward to the day when he hangs a final four banner above the court in Cintas Center.
Oh the goggles. More than once I recall seeing the ball go zipping by IP while he was messing with his eye wear. Stain not so much but IP was always seemingly distracted by that. Very strange to be honest.

[xsteve1]

Here's another thought.

Mack is going to be viewed more like Skip than Matta and Miller. For one he will have been with the program as a coach (head or assistant) longer than both Matta and Miller combined soon. If he makes the tournament then flames out, then the Skip comparison will intensify. Great guy, good coach, not able to get back over the hump. And those Sweet 16 appearances from earlier in his career will be distant memory.

But let's step back and realize something. We are in much better shape then say Purdue. Or right now Indiana. UC is going to struggle with their transition, I believe in a conference that will continue to produce less bids as long as they keep their nonconference schedule as weak as it is.

I'm not terribly happy about how this season ended. Mostly because I think we blew a great opportunity. Right now we have a very stupid basketball team, that hasn't established a defensive core that they can rely on, like we did in the Matta/Miller/Mack first two years. We need that back. Let's work on getting smarter and playing tougher defense and we will see even better days.

DC Muskie is making some excellent points. This off season Mack needs to get back to the defensive core and fundamentals that made Xavier great and playing smart basketball by cutting down on turnovers (tons of lazy turnovers) and creating assists. Stainbrook probably said it best after the NC State game by calling it "shambles" when referring to Xavier's defense against NC. State

[bleedXblue]

It all starts with shoring up the defense. It must be a priority for next year........that a long with healthy dose of attitude. Way too complacent this year. Actually, it was inexcusable.

[The_Mack_Pack]

I think the development of Reynolds and Farr is what's most important to our defense. We need big guys who are long and quick and can recover quickly. Both guys got crossed up in switches plenty of times this season but once they get it down they'll make our defense really tough.

[nkymuskie]

It all starts with shoring up the defense. It must be a priority for next year........that a long with healthy dose of attitude. Way too complacent this year. Actually, it was inexcusable.

I think seeing a lot more of Reynolds will really help give this team an edge next year. He plays with a nasty mean streak. Getting 20+ minutes of that should really help the team.

Occasionally Stainbrook will play with an edge but that is about it. Semaj doesn't always have that "me against the world" attitude that Tu had.

[XU2011]

I think seeing a lot more of Reynolds will really help give this team an edge next year. He plays with a nasty mean streak. Getting 20+ minutes of that should really help the team.

Occasionally Stainbrook will play with an edge but that is about it. Semaj doesn't always have that "me against the world" attitude that Tu had.

Agreed. Tu played with a chip on his shoulder and could carry the team on his back.

Semaj just whines. And throws his hands up and back down real quick.

The players take on the personality of the coach. Miller wasn't a whiner. Mack... certainly not at the level of our cross-town friend Mick in the whining department, but he's up there.

[kyxu]

Miller wasn't a whiner. Mack... certainly not at the level of our cross-town friend Mick in the whining department, but he's up there.

You can't be serious.

Sean Miller bitches with the best of them, to the officials, to the public, to journalists, to everyone. In fact, if I have one complaint about Mack, he doesn't ride the officials enough when it comes to lousy calls and just kind of takes it when guys like Stains and Semaj get drilled inside going to the basket.

[Masterofreality]

It all starts with shoring up the defense. It must be a priority for next year........that a long with healthy dose of attitude. Way too complacent this year. Actually, it was inexcusable.

Agree 100% with this. My only beef with CMack's coaching all year, and I've said it before, is that we kept trying to run the high hedge with bigs like Stain and Zeke, who are not the quickest guys. As a result, our rotation to cover the arc was slow and we gave up a lot of 3's. I think that there was a lot of stubbornly trying to fit a square peg in a round hole all year and better teams that we played in the Big East made us pay.

I hope that A) There is a re-evaluation of this or B) Remy Abell and others can make this defense work better with better rotation quickness.

[MuskieCinci]

I agree, and thanks for the write up.

The dip in Mack's tenure also coincided with expulsion of Dez Wells. I have a tough time believing this team would have suffered through the past 2 seasons the same if he was on our roster. His situation had nothing to do with Coach Mack, yet looking at the numbers above, the loss of Wells had a big impact on this program.

This is water under the bridge at this point, and I have a lot of confidence in C Mack. He has done a great job getting this team to 17 and 21 wins the past 2 seasons. With as bad as we were in the 12/13 season, 17 wins was a monumental accomplishment in my opinion. If coach can get this band of cast offs and goggle wearing misfits to play competitive basketball, I can't wait to see what he can do with a group of kids that are reportedly even more talented.

Coach Mack is a Great American, and I look forward to the day when he hangs a final four banner above the court in Cintas Center.

Thank you nuts! I never thought this would happen but somehow people don't seem to remember Dez Wells being kicked out of Xavier at about the worst possible time. Mack had basically done everything possible to design the team around Wells and all of a sudden he was gone with zero way at that point to find any kind of replacement.

We haven't just missed Wells for the points and defense he brought individually (although those definitely hurt), but for his leadership. All of the great Xavier teams had great leadership, and not everyone is really wired that way. Chalmers, Dante Jackson, Hammer, Tu, etc. were all great at this. The past two seasons I haven't exactly seen a leader on the court. While I certainly don't think it is a bad thing for a player to be quiet and keep to himself, you can't have a roster of guys like that. That to me is the biggest thing that has hurt our defense and road/neutral record. Who is running the defense, yelling out switches, calling picks, letting his teammates know where everyone is at on the court? When things are getting hectic on the road, who calms the team down? Or conversely, who is getting them psyched up if they are playing sluggish?

Wells was supposed to be that guy and the team was going to rally around his personality. He worked his ass off in practices and work outs, and during games he was a two way player. Mack kicked Lyons out at the beginning of that summer because he wanted the team to revolve around Wells and his attitude/work ethic, not the one that would have emerged if Cheeks was the de facto captain. Coaches can only do so much, there has to be a guy on the court that can command guys' attention.

On top of that, Reynolds and Myles Davis were ruled ineligible. That hurt us bad, for both last year and this year. I think next year Xavier should be completely over what the Wells, Reynolds, and Davis decisions did to this team from a talent perspective. I am still unsure who the leader of the team will be, and hopefully someone steps up to be a vocal presence that the other guys can feed off of. That to me is a much more interesting topic than how Mack has been doing.

[DC Muskie]

Agreed. Tu played with a chip on his shoulder and could carry the team on his back.

Semaj just whines. And throws his hands up and back down real quick.

The players take on the personality of the coach. Miller wasn't a whiner. Mack... certainly not at the level of our cross-town friend Mick in the whining department, but he's up there.

You know who also "whined" a lot?

David West.

Also I don't give a shit about "whining." Not sure what "whining" has to do with our best player.

[xu82]

I care about whining if it hurts you with the refs and you stop getting any calls. I wish that didn't happen (it shouldn't), but I'm sure it does at times. There was a lot of talk about "no calls" for Semaj against NC State. Was that refs with attitude about attitude? I don't know. Or maybe it was all just imagined as far as the calls go... (It could also just be that driving into 5 guys sitting under the basket is a bad idea.)

[XU2011]

I care about whining if it hurts you with the refs and you stop getting any calls. I wish that didn't happen (it shouldn't), but I'm sure it does at times. There was a lot of talk about "no calls" for Semaj against NC State. Was that refs with attitude about attitude? I don't know. Or maybe it was all just imagined as far as the calls go... (It could also just be that driving into 5 guys sitting under the basket is a bad idea.)

There were a lot of no calls on Semaj near the end of the season. Refs have his number. He can't just bury his head and drive into 3 people and expect a call.

Another difference between Semaj and Tu is Tu could finish through contact. Semaj doesn't seem to be able to do that.

And DC Muskie- I don't know what to tell you... but Semaj isn't a leader. I'm not saying that's a bad thing or in a negative way, he just isn't a leader in the mold of other Xavier greats. That isn't his personality, and he's only a sophomore. What he can control is throwing his arms up every other trip down the floor and whining. It got much more apparent as the season dragged on.

[sweet16]

Just finished reading alot of what was posted over the past two days. I think my personal favorites are the comments that read something like, "Mack is a great recruiter but over the past two years we just haven't had much talent".

[XU 87]

Agree 100% with this. My only beef with CMack's coaching all year, and I've said it before, is that we kept trying to run the high hedge with bigs like Stain and Zeke, who are not the quickest guys. As a result, our rotation to cover the arc was slow and we gave up a lot of 3's. I think that there was a lot of stubbornly trying to fit a square peg in a round hole all year and better teams that we played in the Big East made us pay.

I hope that A) There is a re-evaluation of this or B) Remy Abell and others can make this defense work better with better rotation quickness.

I thought X did a lot more switching on defense at the end of the year.

[DC Muskie]

And DC Muskie- I don't know what to tell you... but Semaj isn't a leader. I'm not saying that's a bad thing or in a negative way, he just isn't a leader in the mold of other Xavier greats. That isn't his personality, and he's only a sophomore. What he can control is throwing his arms up every other trip down the floor and whining. It got much more apparent as the season dragged on.

How do you define a leader? David West was a leader and he bitched all the time. Mark Lyons used to bitch a lot as well. In fact I would argue a lot of players complain about calls.

Do you think Semaj's teammates view him as a leader? I would say so.

You think Semaj's behavior is a reflection of Mack. I disagree. Josh Duncan played for a guy who was extremely emotional when he our coach. Josh never took that personality on. Mack never makes excuses for losses and never throws his players under the bus. And for the NC State game, Semaj has a lot of reasons to throw up his arms and "whine." It wasn't the reason we lost for sure, but it was one of many frustrating aspects of that game. He doesn't sell contact like Tu and Cheeks did that's for sure.

[vee4xu]

Leadership comes in many forms. Verbal, non-verbal, actions and inactions. In the locker room, on the court, in the dorm rooms, at the study table and so on. Just because we don't see leadership with our own eyes doesn't mean it isn't happening. Jason Love never showed much emotion at all, but was a great leader. Same with both Justin Cage and Justin Doellman. Leadership is a quality that is projected in many ways, so trying to put the concept into a box with a tidy bow on it, or trying to define it by what we just see is not possible.

[IM4X]

How do you define a leader? David West was a leader and he bitched all the time. Mark Lyons used to bitch a lot as well. In fact I would argue a lot of players complain about calls.

Do you think Semaj's teammates view him as a leader? I would say so.

You think Semaj's behavior is a reflection of Mack. I disagree. Josh Duncan played for a guy who was extremely emotional when he our coach. Josh never took that personality on. Mack never makes excuses for losses and never throws his players under the bus. And for the NC State game, Semaj has a lot of reasons to throw up his arms and "whine." It wasn't the reason we lost for sure, but it was one of many frustrating aspects of that game. He doesn't sell contact like Tu and Cheeks did that's for sure.

You are being facetious here, right?

[Xman95]

Mack is a good, but not great coach. He seems to recruit well but doesn't do as good of a job developing players the way his predecessors did. I see this program routinely going to the NCAA Tournament under his watch, but I don't anticipate us getting back to the level of routine Sweet 16s like we did with Matta, Miller and earlier in Mack's career when he had a loaded line-up of Miller's players.

Mack's teams just don't have the discipline, intensity, consistency and defensive prowess needed to win conference titles and routinely advance deep into the tourney. I see plenty of 20-win seasons, top 5 finishes in the Big East and decent seeding, but then frequently ending the season with losses in the round of 64 or 32. I don't think X will win many Big East titles or NCAA games with Mack as the coach. I know he started hot, but I think Mack might have hit his ceiling with Sweet 16 appearances in two of his first three seasons.

Xavier will still be a solid program, but I just don't think you will see us playing in the second weekend of the tournament as we've been accustomed to the past decade.

Does anyone here think we are better off with Mack compared to Matta or Miller? This isn't a knock on Mack because as I said above, he's a good, but not great coach. At the end of the day, he just isn't as good of a head coach as the two who came before him, and it's tough as fans because we saw this program peak this past decade under the best two coaches in our history. Anything less than that seems like underachievement, unrealistic as it may be.

To this point, I think Matta is actually a very fair comparison for Mack. If you talk to a lot of OSU folks, the biggest complaint about Matta is that he's John Cooper. He's a great recruiter, but not a great coach. Another issue is that his players don't usually get a lot better. Look at guys like Sullinger. He looked better as a freshman than as a soph. Aaron Craft...in 4 years the kid still can't shoot. His game is pretty much what he brought to OSU. Guys like Scott and Smith have shown some improvement, but I don't think it's close to what was expected.

As for Matta's trip to the Elite 8, I give 90% of the credit to the players. I think they carried him. Chalmers lit a fire under that team and they just went on The Run. Don't forget, those same key players also had David West the year before and got beat in Rd 2.

Sean Miller...he's on another level so far. I don't think there should be any question that he's the best of the three. I'm not saying Mack can't get there, but it's going to take some changes. That being said, Miller was routinely questioned in his first couple years and many were calling for him to get run out of town. Then things started to click and those same fans were disappointed when he left. Mack has a chance to get to that level, but I think that next step/jump needs to be taken soon - like next year. Assuming we have Semaj and Martin returning, I don't think anything less than Sweet 16 would be considered a success.

[RealDeal]

Thad is a very good coach, but was in the right place at the right time for a lot of his recruits. Indy-Oden,Conley, Columbus-Sullinger.

[danaandvictory]

Thad is a very good coach, but was in the right place at the right time for a lot of his recruits.

Isn't that sort of the point?

[RealDeal]

Isn't that sort of the point?

The point I was making is that Thad was at Butler and from Indy and got to recruit those guys from 8th grade on. Sullinger reportedly was going to OSU regardless of who was the coach.

[danaandvictory]

The point I was making is that Thad was at Butler and from Indy and got to recruit those guys from 8th grade on. Sullinger reportedly was going to OSU regardless of who was the coach.

Travis Steele has the same connections - is X "in the right place at the right time" for the Indiana kids we've brought in? Kelsey had the opportunity to recruit Dez Wells from a young age when he was at Wake. Semaj blew up at the last minute, didn't want to leave Cincinnati or go to UC, so came to X. That's kind of how recruiting works. It's not a meritocracy, coaches always have some ingrained advantage they leverage.

[RealDeal]

Travis Steele has the same connections - is X "in the right place at the right time" for the Indiana kids we've brought in? Kelsey had the opportunity to recruit Dez Wells from a young age when he was at Wake. Semaj blew up at the last minute, didn't want to leave Cincinnati or go to UC, so came to X. That's kind of how recruiting works. It's not a meritocracy, coaches always have some ingrained advantage they leverage.

That's true, Thad just had some ingrained leverage with top level NBA talent, that's my point. Did he do a great job recruiting those guys? I'm sure he did. Good for him.

[boozehound]

I guess we should all be thankful that the state of our program is good enough that we can act like mega-douches after missing the tournament for 1 year followed by a year in which we finished 3rd in a new conference. Also - we made the Sweet 16 the year before last.

Seriously - Things are going to be fine. We hit a bump in the road. It wasn't even that bad of a bump.

[CinciX12]

We will never have another Sean Miller. I am slowly accepting that I think. 25 years from now I really think his 5 seasons here will be the best a Xavier coach has had.

That makes me sad. Very sad.

[kyxu]

We will never have another Sean Miller. I am slowly accepting that I think. 25 years from now I really think his 5 seasons here will be the best a Xavier coach has had.

That makes me sad. Very sad.

I really, really hope you're wrong. And I think that you are.

[XfansinKy]

We will never have another Sean Miller. I am slowly accepting that I think. 25 years from now I really think his 5 seasons here will be the best a Xavier coach has had.

That makes me sad. Very sad.
I just hope to be here in 25 years man!

[UCGRAD4X]

I just hope to be here in 25 years man!

Amen to that.

I'll still be rooting them on, no matter who the coach is. At that age, I probably won't remember anyway.

[MADXSTER]

I think the State of the Program is in excellent shape.

Yes, Xavier had 17 wins last season with what, 7 scholarship players. It was an incredible job. 21 wins, 3rd place in the Big East and four starters coming back next year. Excellent. Big time recruiting class coming in. Excellent.

Xavier has an excellent coach who has a couple of excellent assistants.

[UCGRAD4X]

Seriously - Things are going to be fine. We hit a bump in the road. It wasn't even that bad of a bump.

The fact is, we won't know until it happens. We hope that this is the nadir of the program, some are concerned, rightfully so, that it might not be (note: emphasis on the might). Hopefully we can look back on this as a bump, as "not that bad of one." I think that is what we all can agree is what we want to see happen. It is ok to be concerned that it is not. I guess the speculation is, what are the standards that will tell us whether it is or not - how long do we wait and at what point would we expect changes.

IMAO: the next two years should enlighten this speculation and answer many of the questions. Any drastic change now would be unwarranted.

A better finish next year is the first criterion. A sweet sixteen the following year is the next. Less than that would be a disappointment. Any step backwards from this year would be a cause for change in leadership.

[paulxu]

If the "nadir" of your program is making the tournament...don't tell Tom Crean.

[ChiTownMuskie]

The nadir of our program?? Good Lord. I suppose I'm not adding much to what has been rehashed again and again, but man, we should all crack open the Xavier History Book to help us remember where we have been and where we are going.

My first memories of Xavier Basketball are walking up the hill to the Gardens w my Dad to watch Byron Larkin in his last season, playing in the MCC by the way. I remember when we hung our hat on moral victories (Umass, IU in the tourney during A Williams years, etc). I remember when beating UC meant a resoundingly successful season. I remember when we never expected to be in the second weekend of the tourney. Hell, I remember a couple of seasons in the 21st century when we all wondered if Sean Miller had any business coaching our beloved Musketeers.

High expectations are a good thing. And yes, we have had some ugly additions to the Xavier Experience over the last few years, but at this very moment, it is damn good being a Xavier fan. Always has been, always will be. As a Cincinnati sports fan, I could write a book about the number of times the Bengals and Reds (1990 and 99 notwithstanding) have let me down/disappointed me/enraged me/made me swear off sports for a lifetime. Muskies? NC State game comes to mind, maybe Marquette a couple seasons ago (a game we probably had no business even being in), December 2011...that's about it for me.

Don't forget history, people! There's nothing like Xavier Basketball.

[bleedXblue]

The nadir of our program?? Good Lord. I suppose I'm not adding much to what has been rehashed again and again, but man, we should all crack open the Xavier History Book to help us remember where we have been and where we are going.

My first memories of Xavier Basketball are walking up the hill to the Gardens w my Dad to watch Byron Larkin in his last season, playing in the MCC by the way. I remember when we hung our hat on moral victories (Umass, IU in the tourney during A Williams years, etc). I remember when beating UC meant a resoundingly successful season. I remember when we never expected to be in the second weekend of the tourney. Hell, I remember a couple of seasons in the 21st century when we all wondered if Sean Miller had any business coaching our beloved Musketeers.

High expectations are a good thing. And yes, we have had some ugly additions to the Xavier Experience over the last few years, but at this very moment, it is damn good being a Xavier fan. Always has been, always will be. As a Cincinnati sports fan, I could write a book about the number of times the Bengals and Reds (1990 and 99 notwithstanding) have let me down/disappointed me/enraged me/made me swear off sports for a lifetime. Muskies? NC State game comes to mind, maybe Marquette a couple seasons ago (a game we probably had no business even being in), December 2011...that's about it for me.

Don't forget history, people! There's nothing like Xavier Basketball.

Great post, but it's hard to not look at the future and wonder if it will resemble the last 10-15 years. Lots of question marks coming off two years of pretty frustrating basketball. I think the trend is in the right direction. Lots riding on next year and there are a whole bunch of question marks around Justin and Semaj. Those two come back and we should be in pretty good shape.

[RealDeal]

The nadir of our program?? Good Lord. I suppose I'm not adding much to what has been rehashed again and again, but man, we should all crack open the Xavier History Book to help us remember where we have been and where we are going.

My first memories of Xavier Basketball are walking up the hill to the Gardens w my Dad to watch Byron Larkin in his last season, playing in the MCC by the way. I remember when we hung our hat on moral victories (Umass, IU in the tourney during A Williams years, etc). I remember when beating UC meant a resoundingly successful season. I remember when we never expected to be in the second weekend of the tourney. Hell, I remember a couple of seasons in the 21st century when we all wondered if Sean Miller had any business coaching our beloved Musketeers.

High expectations are a good thing. And yes, we have had some ugly additions to the Xavier Experience over the last few years, but at this very moment, it is damn good being a Xavier fan. Always has been, always will be. As a Cincinnati sports fan, I could write a book about the number of times the Bengals and Reds (1990 and 99 notwithstanding) have let me down/disappointed me/enraged me/made me swear off sports for a lifetime. Muskies? NC State game comes to mind, maybe Marquette a couple seasons ago (a game we probably had no business even being in), December 2011...that's about it for me.

Don't forget history, people! There's nothing like Xavier Basketball.

Yep, great post.

[Masterofreality]

Great post, but it's hard to not look at the future and wonder if it will resemble the last 10-15 years

It won't. It will be better...



Just jabbing ya, Bleed.

[XU 87]

We will never have another Sean Miller. I am slowly accepting that I think. 25 years from now I really think his 5 seasons here will be the best a Xavier coach has had.

That makes me sad. Very sad.

You're too young to be such a pessimist.

[SM#24]

I too think that Sean Miller has been the best coach Xavier has ever had and the best Xavier will have in my lifetime, however, I believe we have seasons ahead of us that will be better than any during his time here.

[Xman95]

I too think that Sean Miller has been the best coach Xavier has ever had and the best Xavier will have in my lifetime, however, I believe we have seasons ahead of us that will be better than any during his time here.

I have no doubt that Chris Mack, given a roster with talent (we should have that coming in this year), can get to and beyond the Elite 8. If we have Semaj and Martin back, I think it's possible we could see X back in the Elite 8 next year.