It's Bad Enough When We Lose

[LA Muskie]

It's bad enough when we lose, but when we lose to end our season this board can be almost unbearable. For a team we supposedly all love, we sure are tearing it to shreds.

Look, this wasn't our year. If you couldn't see that from Day 1 and throughout the season, you were choosing not to. We were good but not great this year. UC was an anomaly. Creighton at home was well orchestrated.

Mack is a good to very good coach. He's not going anywhere. Nor should he. They guy has made the tournament 4 of his first 5 years at the helm (including 2 sweet 16 finishes), and coached a a team picked 8th in its inaugural season to a 3rd place finish.

As for the players, are they all Big East caliber players? Probably not, but the Big East was still a pipe dream when the vast majority of them were recruited. And by all accounts they are all great kids. We should be proud of their accomplishments instead of critiquing their deficiencies. They tried their best -- I truly believe that -- and that's really all you can ask. Everything else was out of their control.

I think we'll be better next year. Depending on how things shake out we could be very good. But I think it would be dangerous (for our psyches) to raise expectations too high. A lot remains to be seen.

[Masterofreality]

Thank you.

[MD Muskie]

thank you. a voice of reason.

[xudash]

Thank you.

[LadyMuskie]

When will we be allowed to have high expectations again?

[Nigel Tufnel]

Good post, LA.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Great post and honestly it's only a small percentage of fans that are negative after a loss. This board represents maybe 2% of Xavier fans and maybe .02% are negative. This team made the dance and if I recall some fans thought they would struggle to do that this year. I guess you can say they did struggle but they did it nonetheless. When has X ever stayed down for long? This is Xavier Basketball, all we do is win and that is not going to change. How many programs would love to have the success that X has? You can't make the sweet 16 every year. Duke doesn't, UNC doesn't, UK doesn't. There will be a year in which X will be a #2 seed and might lose first round. That doesn't mean X sucks or Mack sucks. This team did what the majority expected and I am a pretty happy fan right now.

[GoMuskies]

I don't know. When we suck out loud to end a pretty mediocre year, I think it's best to just say that we sucked out loud to end a mediocre year.

I agree that we should be better next year, but recent history has told me that we don't really know what our roster will look like until November. So who knows?

[xavierj]

When will we be allowed to have high expectations again?

They are always high. When Xavier doesnt win every game and make a tournament run people want to fire the coach and get all crazy. That would speak to high expectations. Across town they start with low expectations so Mick and the media can tell everyone that no one predicted them to do anything and now look at us. If and when UC loses the season is already a success due to low expectations.

[drudy23]

There is legit cause for concern...but I don't think anyone thinks we're falling. But I agree with the assessment that it's OK to point out a disappointment if there's a disappointment...and yesterday was a disappointment.

[Caveat]

Every season, except for 1 team, usually ends in something of a circular firing squad for the fans.

All things considered, I think there have been some reasonable points (both on the good and bad side) have been made on here today.

[XUFan09]

When will we be allowed to have high expectations again?

I have very high expectations for next year if Semaj returns (which I'm assuming he will). Isaiah Philmore was a decent, not great, player for Xavier, but Reynolds as a sophomore is so much more promising. The bench and the team as a whole will be much more experienced. This year, we had to rely on a very young bench producing, and, in retrospect, it should have been predictable that they wouldn't produce as much as really needed, even though Farr and Myles' drop-offs were surprisingly bad.

[LadyMuskie]

They are always high. When Xavier doesnt win every game and make a tournament run people want to fire the coach and get all crazy. That would speak to high expectations. Across town they start with low expectations so Mick and the media can tell everyone that no one predicted them to do anything and now look at us. If and when UC loses the season is already a success due to low expectations.

I think you might want to tread lightly with that UC example. There are quite a few people on here that are saying we started with such low expectations this year that we overachieved last night, and no one predicted we would play in the tournament we were supposed to be so bad, and look at us! We made it to the NCAA tournament and even though we lost the year is already a success due to that low 7th place preseason ranking and losing in the first round of the tournament.

[LadyMuskie]

I don't know. When we suck out loud to end a pretty mediocre year, I think it's best to just say that we sucked out loud to end a mediocre year.

I agree that we should be better next year, but recent history has told me that we don't really know what our roster will look like until November. So who knows?


There is legit cause for concern...but I don't think anyone thinks we're falling. But I agree with the assessment that it's OK to point out a disappointment if there's a disappointment...and yesterday was a disappointment.


Every season, except for 1 team, usually ends in something of a circular firing squad for the fans.

All things considered, I think there have been some reasonable points (both on the good and bad side) have been made on here today.

Agree.

[UCGRAD4X]

When will we be allowed to have high expectations again?

It is exactly because we expect so much more that we are so disappointed. I don't want Xavier to be sometimes good or pretty good, I want them to be consistently very good and sometimes great. Others schools can do this with only the occasional letdown and then they go on another run almost immediately.

That is what I want for this team and this school. An embarrassing loss in a play-in game just gives the impression that we did not belong there in the first place. That is NOT the image I want for Xavier.

The big east, even in a down year, is more consistent top to bottom and there are few if any gimme's. This year teams came into our house and kicked our ass! That's not OK!

I think Mack is a good coach. But if his teams consistently underperform…that's on him. He's the man!

You can make all the excuses you want for this team - and they may indeed be legitimate. You can say so-and-so picked them 7th in the conference. That was not my expectation nor anyone on this board (except maybe Gladdenguy).

The bottom line is - this team has not performed to expectation. I bet the players and coaches would say the same.

[LadyMuskie]

It is exactly because we expect so much more that we are so disappointed. I don't want Xavier to be sometimes good or pretty good, I want them to be consistently very good and sometimes great. Others schools can do this with only the occasional letdown and then they go on another run almost immediately.

That is what I want for this team and this school. An embarrassing loss in a play-in game just gives the impression that we did not belong there in the first place. That is NOT the image I want for Xavier.

The big east, even in a down year, is more consistent top to bottom and there are few if any gimme's. This year teams came into our house and kicked our ass! That's not OK!

I think Mack is a good coach. But if his teams consistently underperform…that's on him. He's the man!

You can make all the excuses you want for this team - and they may indeed be legitimate. You can say so-and-so picked them 7th in the conference. That was not my expectation nor anyone on this board (except maybe Gladdenguy).

The bottom line is - this team has not performed to expectation. I bet the players and coaches would say the same.

Great post!

[xsteve1]

There's so many excuses flying around (A10 talent, 7th place pre-season) I feel like I'm on a UDump board.

[MADXSTER]

There's so many excuses flying around (A10 talent, 7th place pre-season) I feel like I'm on a UDump board.

All you want to do is Bash!

[waggy]

I'm not a fan of squeaking into the tournament. The expectations have changed. And the competition has gotten stiffer. It is what it is.

I want national championships and 25 point beatdowns of all the elite programs along the way.

[kyxu]

You can make all the excuses you want for this team - and they may indeed be legitimate. You can say so-and-so picked them 7th in the conference. That was not my expectation nor anyone on this board (except maybe Gladdenguy).

The bottom line is - this team has not performed to expectation. I bet the players and coaches would say the same.

This is a good point, because the "picked to finish 7th in the Big East" excuse is a tired one. That's not Xavier's pick, and I'm pretty sure it was Chris Mack who said other's expectations for you are their problem. We know last night's game was not up to the Xavier players' and coaches' expectations.

[RoseyMuskie]

It is exactly because we expect so much more that we are so disappointed. I don't want Xavier to be sometimes good or pretty good, I want them to be consistently very good and sometimes great. Others schools can do this with only the occasional letdown and then they go on another run almost immediately.

That is what I want for this team and this school. An embarrassing loss in a play-in game just gives the impression that we did not belong there in the first place. That is NOT the image I want for Xavier.

The big east, even in a down year, is more consistent top to bottom and there are few if any gimme's. This year teams came into our house and kicked our ass! That's not OK!

I think Mack is a good coach. But if his teams consistently underperform…that's on him. He's the man!

You can make all the excuses you want for this team - and they may indeed be legitimate. You can say so-and-so picked them 7th in the conference. That was not my expectation nor anyone on this board (except maybe Gladdenguy).

The bottom line is - this team has not performed to expectation. I bet the players and coaches would say the same.

Wait, what?

[vee4xu]

I don't necessarily agree, LA. We all love Xavier, but we have to have time to grieve/vent at the end of the season. Many people have made many good points in several threads since last night. Just because people are disappointed and are willing to express that disappointment doesn't make them bad or disloyal. No, it makes them fans. We are all addicted to Xavier basketball and when there is an intervention among addicted, it can get candid. That isn't all bad because it allows people to say what is on their minds. Not doing so just lets things fester and those things will eventually surface in some other fashion at some other time. I am among the most ardent supporters of Xavier basketball, Coach Mack and the university. In that respect, I am proud to say I have been so for almost 40 years. That doesn't mean that I don't have opinions that can be offered about how I thought the team played this year. When the team does fantastic things we are all on here full of adulation and adoring the effort. Conversely, when things don't go our way, we should be equally open to discussing why we think that isn't the case. In due time, we will all get past our frustration and coalesce back to our positions of support. In the meantime, as I said in another thread, give us all who grieve differently a chance to throw some roses on the grave of the 2013-14 season.

[casualfan]

They are always high. When Xavier doesnt win every game and make a tournament run people want to fire the coach and get all crazy. That would speak to high expectations. Across town they start with low expectations so Mick and the media can tell everyone that no one predicted them to do anything and now look at us. If and when UC loses the season is already a success due to low expectations.

I've brought this up a few times recently, but I will ask again. Why does everything have to come back to UC?

People wonder why we get the little brother treatment? Maybe it's because we do such a great job playing the part.

With as far as this program has come I just don't understand why at every turn people want to compare dick size with UC.

[vee4xu]

I have given hundreds of Performance Appraisals to employees that work for me. We talk about their successes and their "opportunities for improvement." As a manager, if I avoid talking about the zones of opportunity for improvement, I am doing a disservice to that employee and to myself. The key is not to make it personal. I would say, based on what I've read throughout this board since last night, it has not been personal. Some of it has been tough to read because you hate seeing the shortcomings, but it hasn't been personal.

Let's just look at the near term as XU fans doing their personal Performance Appraisal of the entire Xavier men's basketball program.

[XU-XHI]

We were good but not great this year. UC was an anomaly. Creighton at home was well orchestrated.

Mack is a good to very good coach. He's not going anywhere. Nor should he. They guy has made the tournament 4 of his first 5 years at the helm (including 2 sweet 16 finishes), and coached a a team picked 8th in its inaugural season to a 3rd place finish.

As for the players, are they all Big East caliber players? Probably not, but the Big East was still a pipe dream when the vast majority of them were recruited. And by all accounts they are all great kids. We should be proud of their accomplishments instead of critiquing their deficiencies. They tried their best -- I truly believe that -- and that's really all you can ask. Everything else was out of their control.

The UC and both regular season Creighton games showed how good this team can be with decent shooting. Thru the early season, we had guys (Farr & M. Davis) making shots. When that well dried up, X's offense was very predictable and erratic. X is not that far away from having a really good team. We're good now but inconsistent and bad x showed up on Tuesday. Some folks seem to have forgotten that we look at things as a program not as 1 or two seasons and I see a program that is continuing on an upward trajectory. If X is a stock, I'm buying! (Just wish I had bought 30 some years ago.....Oh wait I did with my tuition!)

[JTG]

I've brought this up a few times recently, but I will ask again. Why does everything have to come back to UC?

People wonder why we get the little brother treatment? Maybe it's because we do such a great job playing the part.

With as far as this program has come I just don't understand why at every turn people want to compare dick size with UC.

I agree..not from Cincy..but we are in the Big East now..why not compare us with Gtown and Villanova? Who gives a shit about UC?

[Fireball]

After last year's season, and what happened before last year's season, if you were expecting more from this season than a good shot at at NCAA tournament berth, then you were expecting too much.

I know we're Xavier, and we have high expectations from our basketball team, but be realistic. This team was DECIMATED before the 2012/2013 season. It takes some time to recover from that to where we were. We're well on our way.

[XUGRAD80]

There are several other teams in the BE that wish they had done what X did this year. There are even more that wish that they had the record that X has over the lat 20-30 years. There are more than 300 other NCAA schools that wish they had the recruiting class coming in that X does for next year. All of this says that X has a better basketball program than most.......but is it right NOW at the level that most here feel it can, or should, be? I don't think so. I would think thst everyone would agree that while this year was more successful than the prior year, it's was still not a level that we want it to be. So there is bound to be some feelings of satisfaction for this year, mixed with concern and dissapointment. There are those that feel everything is on track for a very bright future, and those that feel that the present coach will never get the team to the level they want. I think that most of us would fall somewhere in the middle.
Personally, this I feel this years team did as well as could have been expected, but that next years team can do much much better. Depending on who comes back, how much they improve, and how much impact the newcomers have, I feel next years team CAN be as good as any team X has had. But I don't know what WILL happen this off-season, and have only vague reports about how good the new talent is. I'm going to take a wait and see attitude and hope that I am pleasantly surprised.

[DC Muskie]

After last year's season, and what happened before last year's season, if you were expecting more from this season than a good shot at at NCAA tournament berth, then you were expecting too much.

I know we're Xavier, and we have high expectations from our basketball team, but be realistic. This team was DECIMATED before the 2012/2013 season. It takes some time to recover from that to where we were. We're well on our way.

Nova was 13-19 in 2011-2012. They won 5 games in the BE. We haven't been below .500 in conference play since 1895.

[waggy]

1895?

Impressive.