Yep, Jay Bil-ass, ESPN

[Masterofreality]

Quoted today:

@AdamZagoria: Jay Bilas to @SNYtv: "The Big East doesn't exist anymore. I know there's a name out there, but the Big East doesn't exist."

Last night attendance Big East at MSG with no Northeast team playing 13,807. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC with a Memphis home game- 13,081.

I guess the Big East only does not exist to ESPN. For everyone else, however....

What a disingenuous fucker.

[paulxu]

Have I mentioned that Bilas can bite me?

[Milhouse]

No reason to get all worked up about this constantly guys....it's simple why would you ever want to promote a competitors brand?

Simple business practice.

[vee4xu]

No reason to get all worked up about this constantly guys....it's simple why would you ever want to promote a competitors brand?

Simple business practice.

I agree with this. But, it is amazing how far out of their way that ESPN goes to downplay the new BE.

[Masterofreality]

No reason to get all worked up about this constantly guys....it's simple why would you ever want to promote a competitors brand?

Simple business practice.

Well, I would say a show called "Requiem for the Big East" is a bit more than just "simple business practice". Even competitors usually have some respect for each other.

[D West]

He and ESPN are getting to be more like Chris Matthews and MSNBC. There is none when a guy like Bilas makes comments like that.

[The_Mack_Pack]

What exactly is the Big East? Bilas obviously thinks it's the dumpster fire of a league that existed for 8 years. 5 of the original 8 members are still in the Big East so I'd say it's doing just fine.

[Titanxman04]

It was funny when Bill and Gus were discussing "Requiem of the Big East" from that "other network". They were excited to watch it they said, but refused to mention ESPN.

I really ma starting to ignore ESPN nowadays. Outside of their website, I first turn to FS1 now. They are coming along. Lose McNabb and Payton and I'll be thrilled.

[paulxu]

There's really only one answer for all of this.
One or more BE teams in the Final Four.
A BE team wins it all.
That'll shut them all up.
(might as well be X. Hello Jalen Reynolds)

[bourbonman]

There's really only one answer for all of this.
One or more BE teams in the Final Four.
A BE team wins it all.
That'll shut them all up.
(might as well be X. Hello Jalen Reynolds)

Let's go back on the Final Four in Lexington KY in 1985 where 3 of 4 teams from Big East were there. Man would that drive ESPN up a wall?

[Emp]

Master of Rancor, if you're going to get on Bilas, Bile-Ass would be a better fit.

[XUOWNSUC]

If there isn't a Big East, then what conference does the soon to be National Player of the Year play in?

[Milhouse]

Well, I would say a show called "Requiem for the Big East" is a bit more than just "simple business practice". Even competitors usually have some respect for each other.

Eh not necessarily. Depends on the business really. Putting down/attacking the competitor is nothing new.

Notice when Foxsports shows ESPN highlights they hide the logo/espn score at the bottom.

This is how it is and how it is going to be.

[XULucho27]

He's right to the extent that the Old Big East is dead. However -- and this is what really annoys me-- the implication is taken a step further and they use the "Old Big East death" narrative as an indictment on the New Big East. That's bull. This is a fine league with some damn good teams who will no doubt be nationally relevant for years to come.

That being said, I don't think you're ever going to see a fair shake from those that laud the Old Big East. If Creighton were to make a Final Four this year, they'll use it as an indication that the best teams from the Big East truly are gone and what's left can't even compete with the likes of Creighton (I've heard this argument from 'Cuse fans -- I have the unfortunate pleasure of being neighbors with one). If Villanova were to make a similar run, they'll trump an "original" Big East team rising above the rest and leaving the newbies in the dust (ditto for this crap). It's just the way it goes.

Personally, as long as the committee recognizes the good basketball that's being played here, and X keeps getting top-rated recruiting classes, jackasses like Bilas can keep crooning as long as they want.

[Masterofreality]

Master of Rancor, if you're going to get on Bilas, Bile-Ass would be a better fit.

So true Bard. Thanks and reps.

[xudash]

In my mind, there are two properties in play here: ESPN and Jay Bilas himself. Both have credibility at stake.

Is ESPN telling its paid mouthpieces what to say? Are they saying what they say on a more voluntary basis as opposed to saying it based upon what was ordered through a company memo?

I imagine its a concerted effort to disparage the Big East; it's coming from intergalactic headquarters. The problem for Bilas is that he is damaging his reputation with a big chunk of fans. He has an even bigger chunk of fans that still pulls for him, but still.

Who knows where his career may lead him, but I guess my point is that it probably won't be leading him to Fox anytime soon. And he otherwise is coming off as being petty and he's doing that with fans who aren't even attached to the Big East. If I'm a basketball junkie and an alumnus of a PAC12 school and I'm sitting around, watching the Big East Tournament prior to my game coming on, I'm going to wonder what got into Bilas' coffee that would cause him to make such a stupid statement publicly.

Too bad, because he's historically been mostly kind to Xavier.

BTW, if they're making statements like that, they know Fox is a long-term threat.

[XULucho27]

As a corollary to my above post:

I've already started to see the backlash over the teams left in the semi-finals of the Big East Tournament. If Providence, Seton Hall and another lower seeded team had pulled these types of upsets last year the narrative would have been "the Big East is so good from top-to-bottom (Providence not so much as they were the higher seeded team, but the point remains). Any team can win on a given night." But, instead, we get the standard "the Big East just isn't what it was" shit.

[Pete Delkus]

He and ESPN are getting to be more like Chris Matthews and MSNBC. There is none when a guy like Bilas makes comments like that.

Ha...I thought the same thing. I hear "War on Women" in the ESPN jargon and "Lean Forward - with our coverage of the NCAA".

[Always Learning]

He and ESPN are getting to be more like Chris Matthews and MSNBC. There is none when a guy like Bilas makes comments like that.

Mathews vs Billo ... O'Donnell vs Hannity ... Schultz vs Cuvato ... its called competition for ratings.
ESPN vs FOX1 is competition for ratings.You need to understand that even one tenth of a point in ratings ring the
cash register. Sometimes out of the realm of reality causes debate, or a comeback, and then nonsense.

Here on this site, over the past few months, I've read how awful FOX1 in, or this or that announcer, but the bottom line is FOX1 is a start-up and they are light years ahead of where ESPN was when they launched back in the early eighties and we were treated to roller derby, sports quiz shows, etc.
FOX1 in its first year has D-1 college basketball, D-1 college football, and soon coming MLB.

Jay, a one-time fav of the Xavier folks, has a new gig. So what?

In time, and not very far in the future, FOX 1 will be the place for college basketball. National ratings are a lot more than regional attraction, i.e. Villanova vs St John's. It's what's on and what is the line and the over/under that attracts ratings. And Villanova vs St John's will be bigger ratings draw that ESPN's SMU vs Central Florida or Xavier vs Creighton than Houston vs UC.

[X-man]

A lot of us, myself included, always took the view that ESPN consciously "overvalued" the BE in past years, presumably for strictly finnancial reasons. It was in their interest to get as many teams into the Dance as they could, and they talked incessantly on Selection Sunday about all the BE teams that belonged in the Dance. When those of us who felt this way made this argument, we were often dismissed as "paranoid". I think that it is clear now that we were right. The commentary on ESPN is downright obnoxious when it is about the BE today. At least now it is crystal clear for all to see.

[LA Muskie]

I still think you're all paranoid. Seriously. Do you really think they sit around in staff meetings and discuss how they can rail on the Big East?

[X-man]

No but I do think that they sit around at staff meetings and discuss strategies that help their bottom line.

[XULucho27]

No, I don't think ESPN execs sit around and tell Jay, "go out there and say the Big East sucks."

Again, what pisses me off isn't the statement that this league isn't as good as its old iteration (and it's not, that's obvious). What DOES piss me off is the implication that because it's not the "old Big East" this league sucks. That is, to me, the implied message behind Jay's, the Big East is dead crap. THAT is what irks me the most.

The dismissive nature of the comment "I know there's a name out there, but the Big East doesn't exist" is annoying as crap. The Big East DOES exist. It just isn't the same anymore. It's still very good. Get over it.

[SkyWalker]

Let's go back on the Final Four in Lexington KY in 1985 where 3 of 4 teams from Big East were there. Man would that drive ESPN up a wall?

and those 3 Big East teams are still in the Big East.

[bobbiemcgee]

Too bad, because he's historically been mostly kind to Xavier.


Like when bias ranted against X getting picked to the tournament in '07? what an asshole.

[Masterofreality]

I still think you're all paranoid. Seriously. Do you really think they sit around in staff meetings and discuss how they can rail on the Big East?

I ask again, Why are they promoting and running a 30 for 30 that is called "Requiem for the Big East?" Somebody "sitting around in a staff meeting" came up with that ish.

I submit it is a clear slam at the present league. If The BE was on ESPN, no way that show gets green lighted. It is valid for a report on conference realignment, but this is way disrespectful and inflammatory.

[xudash]

Like when bias ranted against X getting picked to the tournament in '07? what an asshole.

I wrote "mostly." I remember when he did that, but I also remember many instances of him being complementary to X. Just calling it as I recall it. It probably doesn't matter at this point anyway, given this drivel that came from him.

[American X]

This is like being back in Alter Hall studying Thomas Aquinas - the ontological argument for the Big East.

[STL_XUfan]

Espn just need a resume comparison of Minnesota v Providence using the BPI to show why providence should be left out. I wonder if they know that no one outside of Bristol looks at the BPI?

[xavierj]

Vanpelt doing his part today. Saying Nova doesnt deserve 1 seed because big east isn't big east and they lost to Seton Hall. Says yeah they beat Kansas but that was a long time ago. Says Syracuse, who he fails to mention home losses to Georgia Tech and Boston College, and Louisville should get more consideration.

[Masterofreality]

Espn just need a resume comparison of Minnesota v Providence using the BPI to show why providence should be left out. I wonder if they know that no one outside of Bristol looks at the BPI?

WTF is BPI? Body Paunch Index?

[LadyMuskie]

Who is this Jay Bil-ass person? I remember there was once a Jay Bilas on some network who was a friggin idiot and didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, but he's been dead to me for nearly a decade. I can't recall exactly, but I seem to remember his bracket being busted year after year because he only chose so-called big name schools to win. Anyone who takes Bilas seriously in knowing what he's talking about has rocks for brains. He is to college basketball what Joan Rivers is to fashion.

And ESPN is and has been pitiful for some time. That network is tabloid sports "journalism".

[Caveat]

It's as much a Syracuse thing as anything else -- Syracuse has so many alums in broadcasting (and working at Bristol) that their departure from the Big East alone would have been the "death" of the conference in the minds of most ESPNers.

[RealDeal]

He's been dead to me since he said Cage flopped.

Dead I say!

[ammtd34]

Caveat's got it. I don't think it's really a Big East thing, I think it's a Syracuse thing.

There are definitely people pointing to the semi-final matchups as evidence that the league isn't good. Wouldn't that mean the league is actually better? The second to last team beat a top 5 team in the nation and that's somehow evidence of a weak conference? Yeah, ok.

[Masterofreality]

Caveat's got it. I don't think it's really a Big East thing, I think it's a Syracuse thing.

There are definitely people pointing to the semi-final matchups as evidence that the league isn't good. Wouldn't that mean the league is actually better? The second to last team beat a top 5 team in the nation and that's somehow evidence of a weak conference? Yeah, ok.

Well, Bile-ass went to Dook.

As for Syracuse, there are a bunch of those honks that have been pumping the ACC moving their Tourney to NYC..and it looks like it will be coming to Brooklyn at Barclays in 2017. BE has MSG "air-tight" locked up until 2026.

[gladdenguy]

I wanna punch Jay Bile Ass.

I seriously wish the conference had a different name. Then I feel like the comments would be few and far between. The constant comparison is annoying.

[ammtd34]

Well, Bile-ass went to Dook.


I know he did. My point was that, of the first 10 teams in the league, 5 are still in the Big East. 3 of those 10 were Holy Cross, Rutgers, and Boston College, so no one is whining about them. Syracuse and Connecticut are the only teams left.

I just don't understand why, since this incarnation isn't as good - and I wouldn't argue that it is -, it has to mean that this year's league is bad. It's a really good league.

[waggy]

He's been dead to me since he said Cage flopped.

Dead I say!


Dead!

[waggy]

I'm just glad there are other options. A sports fan you'd think would be thankful for all the coverage a channel like ESPN provides - today they have at least 3 channels with tourneys - but they are such douchebags I've turned on NBC. NBC!

[xubrew]

No, I don't think ESPN execs sit around and tell Jay, "go out there and say the Big East sucks."

Again, what pisses me off isn't the statement that this league isn't as good as its old iteration (and it's not, that's obvious). What DOES piss me off is the implication that because it's not the "old Big East" this league sucks. That is, to me, the implied message behind Jay's, the Big East is dead crap. THAT is what irks me the most.

The dismissive nature of the comment "I know there's a name out there, but the Big East doesn't exist" is annoying as crap. The Big East DOES exist. It just isn't the same anymore. It's still very good. Get over it.

This is exactly why I don't think we should have called the league the Big East.

People at ESPN aren't the only ones that feel that way. Virtually everyone feels that way. Except, of course, fans of current Big East teams.

It's always going to be compared to the classic Big East, by everyone (not just ESPN) and it will always be pointed out that it's not the say, by everyone (not just ESPN).

If the league weren't called the Big East, no one would think that the league sucks because it's not the classic Big East. They'd just think of it as a new and exciting league. Find anyone that isn't a fan of a Big East team that doesn't view the new Big East as a failed facsimile. They're not many of them out there. It's not just ESPN. It's everyone. Instead of pointing out what great crowds the tournament is generating and how exciting the games have been, people are talking about how it's not the old Big East.

[xudash]

Sorry, but it absolutely should be called the Big East. Brand value and all that. And I take that position because I believe this will workout just fine in the long run.

We'll look back and nod approvingly that we're part of the Big East. A conference that took back its original identify and started all over again in its flagship sport.

Way too much brand value built into it to allow some sports commentators to opine on what is and is not a good conference.

[LA Muskie]

I agree with Brew (always have on this issue, and on most others). As for ESPN, you know what's even more important than propping up "their" teams? Being right about stuff. Fox News and MSNBC can get away with being wrong because they're not selling "right" they are selling what their viewers want to hear. They are fine with only a segment of the market. ESPN wants (and needs) the entire market.

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

Looks like they are lacking coverage for a niche on the east side of Cincinnati.

[ammtd34]

My question is: Do the people lamenting the classic Big East vacate the accomplishments of current members? To me, people can't complain about the old conference and use past Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, or St. John's teams as examples. You can't have it both ways.

[MADXSTER]

In order to achieve street cred and to shut pie holes up, ANY BIG EAST team needs to get to the Final Four as quickly as possible.

[paulxu]

There's really only one answer for all of this.
One or more BE teams in the Final Four.
A BE team wins it all.
That'll shut them all up.
(might as well be X. Hello Jalen Reynolds)


In order to achieve street cred and to shut pie holes up, ANY BIG EAST team needs to get to the Final Four as quickly as possible.

Great minds and all that jazz.
By the by, I think they replaced your girl with Erin Andrews on DWTS. You OK with that?

[XU-XHI]

In order to achieve street cred and to shut pie holes up, ANY BIG EAST team needs to get to the Final Four as quickly as possible.

agree, put team(s) in the E8 regularly and F4 appearance(s) in the next few years and the Big East will just be a top tier basketball conference and the references to previous years will fade into the sunset.

[Emp]

This is exactly why I don't think we should have called the league the Big East.

People at ESPN aren't the only ones that feel that way. Virtually everyone feels that way. Except, of course, fans of current Big East teams.

It's always going to be compared to the classic Big East, by everyone (not just ESPN) and it will always be pointed out that it's not the say, by everyone (not just ESPN).

If the league weren't called the Big East, no one would think that the league sucks because it's not the classic Big East. They'd just think of it as a new and exciting league. Find anyone that isn't a fan of a Big East team that doesn't view the new Big East as a failed facsimile. They're not many of them out there. It's not just ESPN. It's everyone. Instead of pointing out what great crowds the tournament is generating and how exciting the games have been, people are talking about how it's not the old Big East.

How about AAC.? Great Big Beast? Starting up a new "brand" is expensive and time consuming.

Dash is right. Let's play some hoops,watch our guys and our league's guys, and get over the slings and arrows cast at of our outrageously good luck to be in said company. I'm glad we're in a league with these schools, in a league called the Big East. Reports of the demise must be met with good OOC records and Dance wins. The whining about what some flack says (oh my god, they called us NAMES) is tiresome.

[xubrew]

Sorry, but it absolutely should be called the Big East. Brand value and all that. And I take that position because I believe this will workout just fine in the long run.

We'll look back and nod approvingly that we're part of the Big East. A conference that took back its original identify and started all over again in its flagship sport.

Way too much brand value built into it to allow some sports commentators to opine on what is and is not a good conference.

If it really has brand value, then why are people shitting all over it??

If it pisses you off when people crap on the new Big East, then be prepared to be pissed off for the next several years. It's not going to stop. Even if we send four teams to the Final Four, people will still look at it as not being the same as the old Big East. People will always say it's not the real Big East.

[ammtd34]

If it really has brand value, then why are people shitting all over it??

If it pisses you off when people crap on the new Big East, then be prepared to be pissed off for the next several years. It's not going to stop. Even if we send four teams to the Final Four, people will still look at it as not being the same as the old Big East. People will always say it's not the real Big East.

People shit all over it because people enjoy shitting all over things. It definitely has brand value. If we named it "The Cross Contry Conference," I don't think MSG would have been interested in hosting the tournament.

[XUFan09]

If it really has brand value, then why are people shitting all over it??

If it pisses you off when people crap on the new Big East, then be prepared to be pissed off for the next several years. It's not going to stop. Even if we send four teams to the Final Four, people will still look at it as not being the same as the old Big East. People will always say it's not the real Big East.

If the Big East is that successful, no one will care whether or not it's the same. And any pundit that protests with that will just look petty.

If instead this season becomes a norm, instead of being a down year, then the comments will continue.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[THRILLHOUSE]

To quote our old friend Huggins, "f-ck em. Really, f-ck em."

[vee4xu]

To add more potential fuel, here's the NY state of mind on the BE tourney. Looks like ESPN has company. In this case if it ain't NY, then it ain't no good.


http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/sports/ncaabasketball/big-east-tournament-at-the-garden-lacks-new-york-flavor.html

[LA Muskie]

We're not talking about toilet paper here. Fans care about the teams not the name of the league. And MSG cares about the fans. Put a conference of Syracuse, UConn, Duke, UNC, Florida, Kentucky, UCLA, Arizona, Indiana, and Michigan St. together and people would flock to it even if you literally called it "shit".

[xubrew]

If the Big East is that successful, no one will care whether or not it's the same. And any pundit that protests with that will just look petty.

If instead this season becomes a norm, instead of being a down year, then the comments will continue.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

The fact that the new Big East isn't as good is only part of the issue. People just don't think of it as being the real Big East.

If Xavier dropped Cincinnati from the schedule, and scheduled Ohio State instead, and called it the Crosstown Shootout, people would say that it wasn't the real Crosstown Shootout. Even if Ohio State was a better team, and the rivalry became just as bid, and the games were all overtime games, people still would never think of it as being the Crosstown Shootout. Calling it that would be stupid because it should become it's own game with it's own identity.

That's how people look at the new Big East. They don't think it's the real Big East. The fact that the new league isn't as good is only part of the reason why they don't feel it's the real Big East.

People say the name has branding power. Well, look at how we're branded in most people's minds. A league that isn't really the Big East. Even if the league became better than the old Big East, people would still say it's not really the Big East.

[vee4xu]

We're not talking about toilet paper here. Fans care about the teams not the name of the league. And MSG cares about the fans. Put a conference of Syracuse, UConn, Duke, UNC, Florida, Kentucky, UCLA, Arizona, Indiana, and Michigan St. together and people would flock to it even if you literally called it "shit".

Isn't that already slang for the A-10?

[xudash]

The fact that the new Big East isn't as good is only part of the issue. People just don't think of it as being the real Big East.

If Xavier dropped Cincinnati from the schedule, and scheduled Ohio State instead, and called it the Crosstown Shootout, people would say that it wasn't the real Crosstown Shootout. Even if Ohio State was a better team, and the rivalry became just as bid, and the games were all overtime games, people still would never think of it as being the Crosstown Shootout. Calling it that would be stupid because it should become it's own game with it's own identity.

That's how people look at the new Big East. They don't think it's the real Big East. The fact that the new league isn't as good is only part of the reason why they don't feel it's the real Big East.

People say the name has branding power. Well, look at how we're branded in most people's minds. A league that isn't really the Big East. Even if the league became better than the old Big East, people would still say it's not really the Big East.

So, imagine we're 5 years down the road. Imagine that recruiting remains solid and that the Big East has been putting at least 4 teams into the Dance every year. Imagine some deep runs by multiple Big East members, including a Xavier run to the F4, etc. THAT will result in a core group of fans - fans from Syracuse, PITT, etc. still bemoaning the old Big East, while college basketball fans from other conferences will conclude that the Big East made out okay. They'll reasonably conclude that it isn't the same as the old conference, but so what? The Big East will be enjoying success and money and exposure at that point, and that's what will become important.

For the love of Mike, we're in our first year of this thing. We are in with 10 solid schools overall. We're in being part of an important sports package to a media member. We're in with MSG. All the stuff we were hoping for this time last year has come to fruition. There are A10 schools who would jump to the Big East in a nanosecond were an invitation extended to them. The idiots on UDPride can only spend time bitching about what Chris Mack said or Fox ratings or some other stupid bullshit because they're red with envy of Xavier.

Was the New York Times going to come at this article in any other way given St. John's exit from MSG? No, absolutely not. They're still selling papers and online access to their website.

[LA Muskie]

So, imagine we're 5 years down the road. Imagine that recruiting remains solid and that the Big East has been putting at least 4 teams into the Dance every year. Imagine some deep runs by multiple Big East members, including a Xavier run to the F4, etc. THAT will result in a core group of fans - fans from Syracuse, PITT, etc. still bemoaning the old Big East, while college basketball fans from other conferences will conclude that the Big East made out okay. They'll reasonably conclude that it isn't the same as the old conference, but so what? The Big East will be enjoying success and money and exposure at that point, and that's what will become important.
I think Brew's point is that if we do all that stuff (4 teams per year, deep runs, F4, etc.) we will be enjoying success and money and exposure. Not because we are called the Big East, but because we're damn good.


For the love of Mike, we're in our first year of this thing. We are in with 10 solid schools overall. We're in being part of an important sports package to a media member. We're in with MSG. All the stuff we were hoping for this time last year has come to fruition. There are A10 schools who would jump to the Big East in a nanosecond were an invitation extended to them. The idiots on UDPride can only spend time bitching about what Chris Mack said or Fox ratings or some other stupid bullshit because they're red with envy of Xavier.
And all of this would be true whether we called ourselves the Big East, the Catholic 10, or just about anything else.

[LadyMuskie]

You know what? Screw it. Screw Bilas. Screw ESPN. Screw all the big whiners out there who can't accept change.

We're Xavier. We're used to being disrespected. We're used to hearing crap about mid-major and Eggs-avier and how other teams deserve it more. Bring. It. On. Thank you, Jay Bilas, for once again fueling our fire! You can never have enough bulletin board material! We just need to keep doing what we do - WIN! We cannot control what sad little men in Bristol Connecticut think of the old Big East or the new Big East. We can't control what some bottom dweller in Syracuse thinks or what some half breed in Pittsburgh is lamenting.

Xavier, Creighton, and Butler, especially, just have to keep on showing all those so-called experts with the greasy hair and annoying voices the same results we've shown the last 10 years. I am unconcerned. The Selection Committee has, time and again, shown that they are men and women comprised of more intelligence and basketball understanding than all of ESPN's employees past and present put together. ESPN's basketball "analysts" haven't put together a coherent message or accurate report when it comes to the tournament in about two decades.

ESPN is reminding me more and more of my great aunts and great uncles who sit around at family functions and bitch about the "good old days" and how things used to be. ESPN is the crotchety old codger of sports that the rest of the neighborhood avoids. They sit on their set yelling at the youngins to get off their yard. Meanwhile, Xavier, Georgetown, Villanova, Creighton and the rest of our league will continue to dominate the college basketball scene.

Bring it on, ESPN. We love it!

[xsteve1]

For some reason Jay Bileass is of the opinion that his word is gospel, it's not. You won't hear him take shots at the overrated ACC because that's ESPN's new baby. Just beat ESPN's teams on the court and shut them the hell up.

[chico]

Let him and the rest of his blowhard buddies say what they want. Our incoming recruiting class tells me nobody that matters really listens to them.

[casualfan]

The only way this stuff stops is if the Big East wins in the tournament.

Put 4 teams in the sweet 16, 3 teams in the Elite eight, two in the final four. Something like that and people will have to shut up.

This league bet on itself big time when it decided to stray from ESPN. You don't make a move like that without knowing this stuff is coming.

Now its time to step up in March and make it a good bet. If we win they'll either have nothing to say or better yet they'll keep saying it and the masses will pick up on the BS.

[LA Muskie]

For some reason Jay Bileass is of the opinion that his word is gospel, it's not. You won't hear him take shots at the overrated ACC because that's ESPN's new baby. Just beat ESPN's teams on the court and shut them the hell up.
It has very little to do with ESPN. You won't hear him take shots at the ACC because he played in it.

[X-band '01]

As long as the 4-letter network does not have coverage of the Big East, they will go out of their way to slam the league at every opportunity, especially when Fox Sports 1 has the lion's share of games and CBS/CBS Sports Network has the rest.

The Pac-10 used to be completely ignored in the same manner when they didn't have any of their TV rights coming out of Bristol.

[SpeeDeeVee]

What chu talkin bout Bilas.

[DC Muskie]

Guys-

Take comfort that ESPN is losing market share. It won't happen overnight, but people like Tony Kornheiser and Jay Bilas will be dead like the original BE and the original ACC.

The conference we are in is a revival of a true college basketball conference and we still continue to get better press than bad.

[Masterofreality]

Guys-

Take comfort that ESPN is losing market share. It won't happen overnight, but people like Tony Kornheiser and Jay Bilas will be dead like the original BE and the original ACC.

The conference we are in is a revival of a true college basketball conference and we still continue to get better press than bad.

Absolutely. Woolworths, Montgomery Ward and Western Auto that used to control retailing died too. It's a process.

[Juice]

I, like pretty much everyone on this board, do not like when Bilas or any commentator takes shots at X but I honestly like Bilas. No commentator/tv person rails against the NCAA more than him. And I find him to be one of the most knowledgeable color guys in college basketball. Call me a traitor, but I like him.

[DC Muskie]

I, like pretty much everyone on this board, do not like when Bilas or any commentator takes shots at X but I honestly like Bilas. No commentator/tv person rails against the NCAA more than him. And I find him to be one of the most knowledgeable color guys in college basketball. Call me a traitor, but I like him.

I like that he does that, but he shares the same attitude that many people in his profession has. He has a shtick that is his...railing on NCAA to give him a "brand." However he still sounds off on ridiculousness like "It's not the Old Big East." Well no shit. It's not the Old ACC, and here's the new flash guys who's job it is to opine on sports, nothing has ever "been the same." Certainly not the ACC when Jay played.

I don't care that people shit on our conference. I didn't watch the 30 for 30 piece of shit from a guy ho really was never a fan of anything, but he was a fan of everything. We will make our memories, build our rivalries and keep doing what we do. In the meantime, our network will continue to grow, capture more of the market share and Jay and Tony, Highlighter and the Knobber will be sitting in their wheelchairs drooling on their sweaters while soling their adult diapers.

We are a program of value, associated with other high value brands, associated with a network that has a track record of success. We will be fine.

[waggy]

Preach it brother DC.

[SM#24]

I know he did. My point was that, of the first 10 teams in the league, 5 are still in the Big East. 3 of those 10 were Holy Cross, Rutgers, and Boston College, so no one is whining about them. Syracuse and Connecticut are the only teams left.

I just don't understand why, since this incarnation isn't as good - and I wouldn't argue that it is -, it has to mean that this year's league is bad. It's a really good league.
Holy Cross was never in the BE and Rutgers joined much later. When commentators talk of the "Old" BE, they need to clarify which BE they're talking about. The BE is in Phase 4 right now.
Phase 1 - the original 7 of Gtown, PC, SH, StJohn, Syr, BC, UConn; Nova joined in year 2 and Pitt in year 4 (Nova and Pitt were original A10 members)
Phase 2 - adding football schools Miami, ND, Rutgers, WVa and VaTech over a period of a few years
Phase 3 - raided by ACC and add the CUSA schools
Phase 4 - current alignment

To me, each phase was different and unique. When I think of the historical Big East, I think of Phase 1, those nine schools. That was the glory of the Big East. Phase 2 diluted the basketball and Phase 3 helped offset some of that dilution by adding Louisville and Marq but gave them UC, SFla and DePaul

So, if people want to compare, it should be with Phase 1, that's when the BE top to bottom was the strongest.
We've basically swapped out Syr, UConn, BC, Pitt for Marq, X, Creighton, Butler, DePaul.
Edge to the former group based on the strength of Syracuse and UConn but it's not a huge edge.

We'll see what happens over time, but I think the BE will consistently be a top four conference.

[xsteve1]

Was listening to ESPN radio and the host said they were going to have a college insider on and tell people why the Big East isn't as bad as some people think it is. I don't know if that's a slam or a step in the right direction. If you can find a link to ESPN radio it will be on in a few minutes.

[wkrq59]

All of this makes me raff...You guys ever herd of the pr thing: I don't care what they say about me just so they spell my name right?" Everytime one of the ESPN gurus or self-styled geniuses rips on the Big East it does what? Draws those of its viewers to wonder why and turn to Fox1 to see if the games and their programming of then is good. If they looked in on any previous night of the BE tournament this year they saw a helluva good set of competitive games.
Just remember, "Envy like a dirty flame blackens all that it can not reach." When you have to go to the lengths that ESPN has to disparage the Big Easst on competitor Fox Sport 1, it brings to mind a Shakespear quote "Me thinks the Lady doeth protest too much."

[The_Mack_Pack]

Bilas just said NC State should get in over Xavier. No kidding. That guy is a joke.

[Masterofreality]

I've stopped watching ESPN.

NC State is 24, that's TWENTY FOUR spots below XU in Pomeroy.

[xubrew]

Bilas just said NC State should get in over Xavier. No kidding. That guy is a joke.

Lets get a series going with NC State. If they say no, which they probably will, then tell them to shut the hell up.

Today's NC State, and the Virginia Tech teams under Seth Greenberg, never did seem to want to play any of the teams that frequently got more "unfair" respect than they did. They just complained about.

[Muskie]

Who watches Espn anyway. What do the experts on Fox Sports 1 say?

[BMoreX]

Wait did he really say that?

Every metric (RPI, SOS, Kenpom) has X above NC State by a fair amount.

[xsteve1]

He also mentioned about 5 teams for the 4th #1 slot and didn't even mention Nova. The guy has some serious anger issues.

[Porkopolis]

Don't listen to anything the four letter empire says. They are nothing but shills for their own products. The Big East made them angry and now will be in the crosshairs at every turn.

[The_Mack_Pack]

The BE just needs to win games. It would help to knock off some ACC schools in the process. I'm just glad that ESPN doesn't broadcast the tournament..

[Juice]

Wait did he really say that?

Every metric (RPI, SOS, Kenpom) has X above NC State by a fair amount.

You can look at common opponents too. nC State lost to UC, went 1-1 against Wake, and beat Tennessee. X beat UC, went 1-1 with Tennessee and beat Wake. X beats NC State in this regard as well since X has the better wins, and the better loss.

[vee4xu]

ESPN is a corporate owned media outlet that makes sssoooo much money that it overpays has been ex-coaches and never was morons like Bilas to opine on sports and sports related topics. These dudes make more money than they can ever have imagined and will never do so consistently again in their respective sport fields. So, in exchange they leave their credibility and objectiveness at the door and simply read the memo placed in front of them by the show's ESPN producer who says, "now read this or you don't get that big paycheck anymore." To which these shills respond with drooling pants, while nodding their heads up and down. The only thing that would keep them from reading the memo is the drool from their mouths smearing the print on the page.

Objectivity be damned! Where's my big ass paycheck???

[The_Mack_Pack]

What's obnoxious is that just before Bilas said that, he claimed that the seeding should be done before the conference tournaments and that bubble team wins shouldn't mean anything in conference tournaments. Well, Bilas, NC State's best performances of the year came in the ACC tournament.. Hypocrite.

[XUBob]

Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't the last two times Bilas has ragged X they made it to the sweet 16. If so let him keep talking.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't the last two times Bilas has ragged X they made it to the sweet 16. If so let him keep talking.

The Syracuse over X rant was the OSU heart breaker in rd 2.

[Masterofreality]

ESPN is a corporate owned media outlet that makes sssoooo much money that it overpays has been ex-coaches and never was morons like Bilas to opine on sports and sports related topics. These dudes make more money than they can ever have imagined and will never do so consistently again in their respective sport fields. So, in exchange they leave their credibility and objectiveness at the door and simply read the memo placed in front of them by the show's ESPN producer who says, "now read this or you don't get that big paycheck anymore." To which these shills respond with drooling pants, while nodding their heads up and down. The only thing that would keep them from reading the memo is the drool from their mouths smearing the print on the page.

Objectivity be damned! Where's my big ass paycheck???

Uh, yesssssssss.

[Juice]

I'm also not understanding Bilas pushing this Louisville as a #1 seed. It's absurd.

[GoMuskies]

I'm also not understanding Bilas pushing this Louisville as a #1 seed. It's absurd.

I think Louisville should be a #1 seed. If I had a poll vote I'd be tempted to rank them #1. I think they're the best team in the country right now.

[paulxu]

You also thought Louisville would win the football championship.

[X-man]

Don't listen to anything the four letter empire says. They are nothing but shills for their own products. The Big East made them angry and now will be in the crosshairs at every turn.

Yes, it is not a coincidence that ESPN's "Requiem for the Big East" is showing tonight after the Selection Sunday shows are over.

[GoMuskies]

You also thought Louisville would win the football championship.

No, I did not. And I am not a Louisville basketball fan.

[Juice]

I think Louisville should be a #1 seed. If I had a poll vote I'd be tempted to rank them #1. I think they're the best team in the country right now.

Based on what? Their SOS sucks and they're best win is a 1 point win at UC and against UConn.

[Masterofreality]

Hey Bile-ass

@SIPeteThamel: Not good times for the AAC. Top football guru (Carparelli) left. Their hoops guy (Brazeau) did as well. And the committee ignored them.

[GoMuskies]

Based on what?

Mostly based on the fact that they're the defending national champions and are prison raping everyone they play right now.

[GoMuskies]

Kenpom also has Louisville #2 behind Arizona.

[Muskie]

I believe this is the year where Miller may get a national title. Call it a hunch.

[Perma Fro]

I believe this is the year where Miller may get a national title. Call it a hunch.

Archie Miller or the owner of the Lexus?

[THRILLHOUSE]

Kenpom also has Louisville #2 behind Arizona.

This is the selection committee to Ken Pom this year:

http://i.imgur.com/bwE6n.gif

[vee4xu]

What I really want to know is if that was a casual off camera shot of Fred, or if someone said they liked Sesame Street better than his show and that was his response.

[Masterofreality]

We have the chance to cram Jay Bile-asses words right back down that pompous throat of his. "NC State should be in over Xavier"

Huh, Ok. There is some bulletin board material right there. Let's kick their Wolfy butts all the way back to Tobacco Town and Bile-asses can in the process.

Win this F-ing game!

[XUFan09]

This is the selection committee to Ken Pom this year:

http://i.imgur.com/bwE6n.gif

That is fantastic! And true. It's very different from the past two years when Bobo was vice-chair and then chair. His Selection Committees made good use of efficiency statistics.

[xufan2434]

"NC State over Saint Louis: I like the Wolfpack in the First Four game over Xavier. But that's just the start for them. T.J. Warren will score some points in this one, as he does in every game. Saint Louis has great players in Jordair Jett and Dwayne Evans, but NC State has Warren, and that will be enough."

This is from Bilas' bracket... X has a great history when he doubts this program, so I like it. Let's go get this game from the tip and kick some ass!

[The_Mack_Pack]

He said yesterday morning before the brackets came out that NC State would handle Xavier "pretty easily".. I really hope we prove him wrong. Saint Louis will be pissed that literally everyone is picking the winner of our game to beat them too.

[Always Learning]

Espn just need a resume comparison of Minnesota v Providence using the BPI to show why providence should be left out. I wonder if they know that no one outside of Bristol looks at the BPI?

So, they want to say, "if you win your conference tournament, you still do not get a bid. OK ... then they just want to a) toss the rules out, or b) let us (ESPN) select the teams that qualify.

[Juice]

He said yesterday morning before the brackets came out that NC State would handle Xavier "pretty easily".. I really hope we prove him wrong. Saint Louis will be pissed that literally everyone is picking the winner of our game to beat them too.

Bilas finishes around middle of the pack as far as pundits go. http://regressing.deadspin.com/which-pundits-ncaa-tournament-bracket-should-you-copy-1545574038/@reubenfb

[mistabeecee41]

Not Bilas specific but PTI's Tony Kornheiser just went on a rant about how his buddy Larry Brown and SMU should have made it because it's a "feel good story". Who was his example of they should have replaced? You guessed it! "XAVIER??!?".

[sgarcia]

Not Bilas specific but PTI's Tony Kornheiser just went on a rant about how his buddy Larry Brown and SMU should have made it because it's a "feel good story". Who was his example of they should have replaced? You guessed it! "XAVIER??!?".

I'm also watching PTI and had a good laugh. At least he didn't call us eggsavier.

[XUOWNSUC]

Yep. He said Xavier wasn't a "feel good story" but SMU was therefore SMU should have been included at Xavier's expense. What a joke.

[xavierj]

Not Bilas specific but PTI's Tony Kornheiser just went on a rant about how his buddy Larry Brown and SMU should have made it because it's a "feel good story". Who was his example of they should have replaced? You guessed it! "XAVIER??!?".

He should have just said what he really meant and that was because Larry Brown has been coaching so long and he is my age they should have been picked.

[vee4xu]

Good story today on CBS Sports online that talks about what a joke it is that BYU not only made the tournament, but that they are a 10 seed. Crappy record versus Top 50 teams and second best player tears his ACL, but they are in! Not sure why Kornholer chose to beat on XU. They're in a play in game. The Mormons are a #10 seed for crying out loud.

[xavierj]

Not Bilas specific but PTI's Tony Kornheiser just went on a rant about how his buddy Larry Brown and SMU should have made it because it's a "feel good story". Who was his example of they should have replaced? You guessed it! "XAVIER??!?".

Never let facts get in the way.

Xavier 51 rpi, sos 43, Xavier 9 top 100 wins, 4 top 50 wins, 2 top 25 wins
SMU 53 rpi, sos 114, 4 top 100 wins, 4 top 50 wins, 3 top 25 wins. That makes 19 of 23 wins against teams above 100, 10 of their wins were against teams 200 or higher and they had three bad losses. Nothing in their resume says they deserve to go over anyone.

[vee4xu]

"NC State over Saint Louis: I like the Wolfpack in the First Four game over Xavier. But that's just the start for them. T.J. Warren will score some points in this one, as he does in every game. Saint Louis has great players in Jordair Jett and Dwayne Evans, but NC State has Warren, and that will be enough."

This is from Bilas' bracket... X has a great history when he doubts this program, so I like it. Let's go get this game from the tip and kick some ass!



He said yesterday morning before the brackets came out that NC State would handle Xavier "pretty easily".. I really hope we prove him wrong. Saint Louis will be pissed that literally everyone is picking the winner of our game to beat them too.

Not only is Bilas an ESPN shill, but he's also an XU hater AND last, but not least an ACC alum. All adds up to him being an even bigger boner that usual against X.

[LA Muskie]

Not only is Bilas an ESPN shill, but he's also an XU hater AND last, but not least an ACC alum. All adds up to him being an even bigger boner that usual against X.
Do you really think he has a vendetta against Xavier? These guys are talking heads. They are paid to have opinions. Sometimes we will disagree with them.

[X-band '01]

Do you really think he has a vendetta against Xavier? These guys are talking heads. They are paid to have opinions. Sometimes we will disagree with them.

They're paid to have opinions that promote the ACC brand. By the same token, Bilas also knows he would anger fewer Xavier fans with his comments than he would with angry NC State fans.

[LadyMuskie]

Jay Bilas is a bloviating moron, and he's presented himself as such more times than one can count by dismissing programs like Xavier. I don't care what he's paid to do. Being paid to be on television doesn't mean you're not a biased blowhard. I look forward to Xavier taking his comments and showing him where he can put them beginning at 9:30 tomorrow night!

[STL_XUfan]

What kind of jack-ass sues Barney?

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1999/Barney-Loses-Lawsuit-Over-Lookalikes/id-082cb44c19abe5a311331cd0bf4cf3c5

[GuyFawkes38]

Do you really think he has a vendetta against Xavier? These guys are talking heads. They are paid to have opinions. Sometimes we will disagree with them.

Do you watch ESPN? Vee is not being completely shrill. For better or worst, ESPN picks analyst from certain parts of the country and encourage them to support their region. Bilas is an ACC guy. He loves to hype up the ACC. When Stephen Bardo was at ESPN, he was their Big 10 guy and elevated the conference. Bill Raftery was ESPN's Big East guy (I honestly don't watch much ESPN now...sorry for the old examples).

Notice that ESPN doesn't really have an A10 guy (or for that matter, even a Pac12 guy)? Notice how ESPN doesn't have a new Big East guy?

This isn't accidental. There are business reasons behind it that have nothing to do with cultivating a factually correct opinion. A10 schools just don't have the alumni and fan base of Big10 or ACC schools. So they aren't going to have an A10 guy and instead play into the large following of the Big10 and ACC and their ESPN supporters will hype of their conferences.

Why have a Big East guy on ESPN hyping up the conference when the Big East plays on FS1. You will not see John Thompson or any other former Big East coach on ESPN much.

IMHO, this is just how ESPN works. They have no issue with mixing news and promotion, which is frustrating but just how the world works.

But LA, to act like ESPN analysts opinions are coming from an objective place is absurd. They are encouraged by ESPN to pick their sides and promote.

[LadyMuskie]

What kind of jack-ass sues Barney?

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1999/Barney-Loses-Lawsuit-Over-Lookalikes/id-082cb44c19abe5a311331cd0bf4cf3c5

"The people behind Barney acted like bullies." Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious coming from someone who receives a paycheck from ESPN. Really. Very funny stuff.

[DC Muskie]

Not Bilas specific but PTI's Tony Kornheiser just went on a rant about how his buddy Larry Brown and SMU should have made it because it's a "feel good story". Who was his example of they should have replaced? You guessed it! "XAVIER??!?".

Everyone needs to stop listening and watching Tony and Wilbon. They are pricks. Plain and simple.

Weeks ago Tony couldn't believe Providence was considered an NCAA team. Why? Because Tony thought they were terrible. Okay Tony. Keep showing up at your multiple country clubs putting with your shirt untucked and wearing loafers.

The guy actually thought Otto Porter wished he was back at GTown. Why? Because the Wizards are terrible, the Hoyas are terrible and Porter could help them. Tony's shtick is aloofness, and he's terrible. Otto Porter has a multi million dollar contract, no Tony, Otto doesn't give a shit about GTown.

I hate the Washington Post turned ESPN d bags.

[waggy]

Hope the Friars can take down UNC.

[ncWOLFsu]

Bilas is an idiot. Just a week or so ago he was busy saying TJ Warren wasn't deserving of ACC POY honors because he wasn't good enough to lead his team to the NCAA tournament. Now, after making it clear he doesn't think we belong, he has us beating you guys and then St. Louis as well. Guy doesn't know what he believes, it appears.

[xufan2434]

Bilas is an idiot. Just a week or so ago he was busy saying TJ Warren wasn't deserving of ACC POY honors because he wasn't good enough to lead his team to the NCAA tournament. Now, after making it clear he doesn't think we belong, he has us beating you guys and then St. Louis as well. Guy doesn't know what he believes, it appears.

This is the first year I'm glad I didn't watch ESPN after the selection show and listen to Bilas and Dickie V cry about the committee for an hour and a half

[OTRMUSKIE]

Poor Dickie V is looking old! Not sure how much longer you will have to listen to that guy. I still like him but age is catching up to him. Best way to shut up these pundits is just win. Although even then it wnt change their minds.

[Juice]

This is the first year I'm glad I didn't watch ESPN after the selection show and listen to Bilas and Dickie V cry about the committee for an hour and a half

Every year they pick some charity case from a power conference that isn't getting a fair chance because of some dirty team from a smaller conference. In the past it was always VA Tech. This year it was NC State but they actually got their way.

[Xavier]

He was right. NC State deserved it more than X...and NC state sucks.


Seriously, NC State plays into Xavier's strengths. And beat us by double digits.

[The_Mack_Pack]

Bilas was definitely right this time. I still don't like the guy.

[Filthy Conservative]

The amateur orthopedics diagnosing Stain's knee ("My wife had that").
we weren't gonna be in the play-in game...bilas and coach k are wrong..

Some of you need to break new ground and be right about something.

Sent from my M886 using Tapatalk 2

[Caveat]

Xavier playing like hot garbage doesn't really validate NC State as a tournament pick.

[BandAid]

The amateur orthopedics diagnosing Stain's knee ("My wife had that").
we weren't gonna be in the play-in game...bilas and coach k are wrong..

Some of you need to break new ground and be right about something.

Sent from my M886 using Tapatalk 2
Eh, it was an off year in our crystal balls. You know, kinda like what some of the "professionals" are every year

[floorsweeper]

Yes all of college basketball can agree Jay Bilas is a worthless, arrogant bag of wind. Someday he will run for public office......................

[xubrew]

NC State should not be in the field. They could win it all and I'd still feel that way.

I know they were playing well down the stretch and looked good in some of the games they lost, but that's no reason to take a team. The season starts in November, and for the first 14 weeks of the season NC State looked pretty pathetic. If Illinois were in the field, they'd probably win some games to. Hell, they'd probably make the Sweet Sixteen. In the last three weeks of the season, Illinois won at Minnesota, at Michigan State and at Iowa. They also beat Nebraska at home. That's a hell of a lot in the last three weeks. Their final game was a one point loss to Michigan on a last second shot.

So, if NC State is in because of how good they look in the present moment, shouldn't Illinois be in as well?? The answer is no. To both of them. The season starts in November and if you suck until the end of February, then you should have to win the conference tournament to get in. NC State probably has the weakest profile of any team that's made the field in the last ten years. If it's an eye test thing, then clearly that person wasn't watching until the last couple of weeks. They barely beat a UNC Greenboro team earlier in the year, who is among the worst teams in all of div1. They also lost to an NCCU team, who is good by MEAC standards, but not by at-large standards. Not even close. They lost that game at home.

Even within their own conference, there was a team that appeared to be better than them in Florida State. If NC State is giong to get credit because they "should have beaten Syracuse twice," then how about Florida State who lost at top seeded Florida by just one point and #2 seeded Michigan by just two points?? "Almost" beating teams is such an absurd premise that I don't even know where to start, but if we're going to use it to justify including NC State, then why not include other teams who also looked good?? FSU had a tougher SOS schedule, won more road games, had better road wins, and didn't have the bad losses that NC State had. They were better on paper. They were better off paper. It wasn't even close. It's just that NC State was in a slightly higher gear at the end of the year, but that's a stupid reason for them (or anyone else) to get in.

Even if they win it all, it was still a bad selection. You're selected based on what you've done, not on what you might have done or might be able to do. Piss on NC State!!!!

[Patrick Bateman]

NC State should not be in the field. They could win it all and I'd still feel that way.

I know they were playing well down the stretch and looked good in some of the games they lost, but that's no reason to take a team. The season starts in November, and for the first 14 weeks of the season NC State looked pretty pathetic. If Illinois were in the field, they'd probably win some games to. Hell, they'd probably make the Sweet Sixteen. In the last three weeks of the season, Illinois won at Minnesota, at Michigan State and at Iowa. They also beat Nebraska at home. That's a hell of a lot in the last three weeks. Their final game was a one point loss to Michigan on a last second shot.

So, if NC State is in because of how good they look in the present moment, shouldn't Illinois be in as well?? The answer is no. To both of them. The season starts in November and if you suck until the end of February, then you should have to win the conference tournament to get in. NC State probably has the weakest profile of any team that's made the field in the last ten years. If it's an eye test thing, then clearly that person wasn't watching until the last couple of weeks. They barely beat a UNC Greenboro team earlier in the year, who is among the worst teams in all of div1. They also lost to an NCCU team, who is good by MEAC standards, but not by at-large standards. Not even close. They lost that game at home.

Even within their own conference, there was a team that appeared to be better than them in Florida State. If NC State is giong to get credit because they "should have beaten Syracuse twice," then how about Florida State who lost at top seeded Florida by just one point and #2 seeded Michigan by just two points?? "Almost" beating teams is such an absurd premise that I don't even know where to start, but if we're going to use it to justify including NC State, then why not include other teams who also looked good?? FSU had a tougher SOS schedule, won more road games, had better road wins, and didn't have the bad losses that NC State had. They were better on paper. They were better off paper. It wasn't even close. It's just that NC State was in a slightly higher gear at the end of the year, but that's a stupid reason for them (or anyone else) to get in.

Even if they win it all, it was still a bad selection. You're selected based on what you've done, not on what you might have done or might be able to do. Piss on NC State!!!!

If NC State shouldn't be in the field what does that say about X? X playing miles from home and had a basically a home crowd as well. It was either NCS or SMU and NCS got in because there were no representatives from the AAC and two from the ACC. NCS also beat two tourney teams on the road which is 2 more than X and also beat Syracuse in tourney squeaking them in. NCC is still a tourney team and Warren fouled out that game, it is also probably close to a rivalry game. Bottom line is that it doesn't matter if you win by 1 or 50, they count the same.

[xubrew]

If NC State shouldn't be in the field what does that say about X? X playing miles from home and had a basically a home crowd as well. It was either NCS or SMU and NCS got in because there were no representatives from the AAC and two from the ACC. NCS also beat two tourney teams on the road which is 2 more than X and also beat Syracuse in tourney squeaking them in. NCC is still a tourney team and Warren fouled out that game, it is also probably close to a rivalry game. Bottom line is that it doesn't matter if you win by 1 or 50, they count the same.

You're calling out the wrong person with this question. I did not think X was getting in, but they had a better case than NC State did. Beating a good Cincinnati team away from home, winning at home against a Creighton team that was pretty good on the road, and beating a Saint John's team who, while not great, was still a solid team at home, is better than what NC State did.

NCCU is a rivalry game. That's pretty funny. They are in the field, but not as an at-large caliber team. To equate them to a team that was actually under consideration is beyond ridiculous. They would have been seeded at the bottom of the NIT had they not won the conference tournament, and only because they were the first place finisher. The fact that a player fouled out doesn't matter. Again, it's this world of false hypotheticals. Christian cramped up against Iowa and Xavier didn't have him for the overtimes. In the world of the ACC, that would have been the same as a win.

One of NC State's two tournament road wins was against Tennessee, a team that I also don't think should be in the field. They were swept by Texas A&M and lost to Vandy, for crissake. The Pitt win was good for NC State, and the neutral floor win against Syracuse was good, but that was all the meet they had on their profile.

I agree that it doesn't matter how much you win by as long as you win, but that should also hold true for a team's losses. If the justification for NC State was that they looked good against Syracuse and UNC even though they lost, that's complete crap.

[Juice]

If NC State shouldn't be in the field what does that say about X? X playing miles from home and had a basically a home crowd as well. It was either NCS or SMU and NCS got in because there were no representatives from the AAC and two from the ACC. NCS also beat two tourney teams on the road which is 2 more than X and also beat Syracuse in tourney squeaking them in. NCC is still a tourney team and Warren fouled out that game, it is also probably close to a rivalry game. Bottom line is that it doesn't matter if you win by 1 or 50, they count the same.

Results in the tournament do not justify whether a team belongs in the tournament or not. You're using present and future results to justify past results.

[xubrew]

Results in the tournament do not justify whether a team belongs in the tournament or not. You're using present and future results to justify past results.

This.

He's also saying that NC Central is a rival, and that they're a tournament team, and that Warren fouled out in that game, so it's not a bad loss.

[GoMuskies]

NCCU is a rival to NC State like Wright State is a rival to Xavier.

[Patrick Bateman]

You're calling out the wrong person with this question. I did not think X was getting in, but they had a better case than NC State did. Beating a good Cincinnati team away from home, winning at home against a Creighton team that was pretty good on the road, and beating a Saint John's team who, while not great, was still a solid team at home, is better than what NC State did.

NCCU is a rivalry game. That's pretty funny. They are in the field, but not as an at-large caliber team. To equate them to a team that was actually under consideration is beyond ridiculous. They would have been seeded at the bottom of the NIT had they not won the conference tournament, and only because they were the first place finisher. The fact that a player fouled out doesn't matter. Again, it's this world of false hypotheticals. Christian cramped up against Iowa and Xavier didn't have him for the overtimes. In the world of the ACC, that would have been the same as a win.

One of NC State's two tournament road wins was against Tennessee, a team that I also don't think should be in the field. They were swept by Texas A&M and lost to Vandy, for crissake. The Pitt win was good for NC State, and the neutral floor win against Syracuse was good, but that was all the meet they had on their profile.

I agree that it doesn't matter how much you win by as long as you win, but that should also hold true for a team's losses. If the justification for NC State was that they looked good against Syracuse and UNC even though they lost, that's complete crap.

So because St.J beat Creighton at home they are tough there? St.J is not a good team, so good at home what happened last night?

NCC and NCS still in same state and you don't think that they wanted to beat them knowing that they are in the ACC and have a future pro/ACCPOY on their team?

Bottom line is that the two profiles aren't that far apart hence they were both the same seed. I saw one team beat the other handily without their best player for 6 mins in the first half and played the rest of the first half tentative. X should have attacked Warren more when Gottfried put him back in the first half.

[casualfan]

You're calling out the wrong person with this question. I did not think X was getting in, but they had a better case than NC State did. Beating a good Cincinnati team away from home, winning at home against a Creighton team that was pretty good on the road, and beating a Saint John's team who, while not great, was still a solid team at home, is better than what NC State did.


Was the top end of our resume really that much better than NC States?

- We beat Creighton at home. They beat Syracuse at a neutral site.

- We beat Cincinnati on a neutral court. They beat Pitt on the road.

- We beat NIT participant St. John's on the road. They beat NCAA tournament participant Tennessee on the road.


Actually now that those are written out, with the way the committee values wins away from home their top three wins could be viewed as more impressive than ours.