Better Without Stain Train?

[GetUp5]

I know, I know.. The players read the boards and we don't want to bash our guys, etc..

But, does anyone else feel like this team plays better without the clog in the middle? When Stain is in the game, we focus the offense around him to the point that we turn it over trying to feed him, we stop driving and we look so slow. During the comeback at Marquette, Jalen was in the game and finally looked comfortable. Jalen is the new school big man in big time college basketball.

Obviously Stainbrook has been a key to this team, but I was legitimately excited when he fouled out against Marquette. We were simply a better team, in that sort of game, without him.

[RealDeal]

No.

[xeus]

No.

[GoMuskies]

He's not a great player, but he's by far the best option currently on the roster.

[SlimKibbles]

Absolutely not. Excited when he fouled out? Really?

[Always Learning]

And pray tell Getup, who replaces these numbers in BE play only?
24th in scoring (11.1); 2nd in rebounding (8.8); 2nd in FG% (53.25; 3rd on OR and 2nd in DR.

[vee4xu]

Seems like Getup got up on the wrong side of the bed today.

[LadyMuskie]

Today is President's Day not April Fool's Day. You posted this thread a month and a half too early.

[bjf123]

Seriously?!?!?!?!?


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[BBC 08]

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Nem
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Aniyo

[OTRMUSKIE]

Well I do think we are more athletic with Stain not in but athletic teams don't win games. Stain is a beast and you do shake your head when he continues to miss under the basket shots. However, he wears his heart on his sleeve and we need his size and aggressiveness to stay in ball games. Now I would like to see a lineup of Stain and Reynolds more and hopefully Mack makes this adjustment against DePaul to gives us an idea if it could possibly work.

[XUFan09]

They couldn't stop Stainbrook inside, as he went 6-7 from the field. His problem was the same as Semaj, Dee, and Martin's: careless turnovers.

[BandAid]

We tend to get clogged up more when it is Philmore and Stain in together.

I like the Stain/Reynolds combination. I'd like to see more of that.

The problem isn't Stain though.

[Kahns Krazy]

No.

[XUFan09]

We tend to get clogged up more when it is Philmore and Stain in together.

I like the Stain/Reynolds combination. I'd like to see more of that.

The problem isn't Stain though.

This is common wisdom, but consider these points:

1. Xavier's adjusted offensive efficiency is 30th in the nation (and that's after a slow start).
2. They manage that with Philmore easily getting the second most minutes among bigs.
3. Philmore personally has an above average offensive rating with a usage rate of 19.7%, on the border between Kenpom's "Role Player" and "Significant Contributor."

Xavier's offense isn't the problem. In fact, having two space-eating bigs in at the same time (who also at least have to be respected from mid-range) has regularly presented match-up problems for our opponents. This is part of the reason that Xavier has often dominated in the paint. Also, it's not like Jalen Reynolds is going to stretch out the defense. James Farr will, but he is easily the worst defensive big on the team, and defense is Xavier's major problem. Is Philmore an elite defender? No, but he understands defensive positioning much better than our two underclassman bigs.

I like that Jalen Reynolds is coming on strong, because he has the potential to be an impact player and he gives Xavier some important flexibility. He also easily has more upside than Philmore; he just hasn't quite attained it yet. Philmore has become a whipping boy for Xavier fans, especially those thrown off by the unorthodox front line put out there when he is next to Stainbrook. The thing is, it has worked fairly well, based off the actual evidence and not the "eye test." An emerging Reynolds next to Stainbrook could end up being better. In fact, I'd place a small bet on that happening by the last game of the season. Hopefully, sooner than that though. I'd like to trade "fairly well" for "good to really good," which is what a fully emergent Reynolds would offer.

[xsteve1]

Got to keep Stain on the floor. He's just got to be stronger with the ball. Would love to see Reynolds take a lot more of Philmore's minutes from here on out.

[GetUp5]

I guess my point could be refined to say this: When we fall behind, we are better without Stainbrook because we have quick possessions and take the ball to the basket. When we're down 10 with 7-8 mins left, we pass around the perimeter and try to get the ball inside. We're 1 dimensional. When Stainbrook isn't in, the offense is way more free flowing which is conducive to making a comeback.

His careless turnovers are more of a problem. He just lacks general court awareness at times and the way he cries to the refs looks so bad.

[boozehound]

The only part of this I agree with is the part about Stainbrook always whining to the Refs. He should can that shit.

[Lamont Sanford]

Nope. Next!?!

[MHettel]

We have 5 guys that play essentially all the minutes at PF / C.

Those guys have played 1936 minutes. Stainbrook has played 34.3% of that total.

- He's scored 41.0% of the field goals.
- He's scored 43.9% of the 2 pt FGs
- He's grabbed 36.8% of the Offensive rebounds.
- He's grabbed 42.1% of the defensive rebounds.
- He's got 73.5% of the assists.
- He's got 45.5% of the steals.
- He's got 46.8% of the blocks.
- He's committed 28.0% of the fouls.
- He's scored 38.2% of the points.

So, on a per minute basis, he's the best of 5 big men when it comes to scoring, rebounding, assists, steals and blocks. Oh, and he doesnt foul as much as the others either.

Yeah, who needs that guy?

[xu82]

We have 5 guys that play essentially all the minutes at PF / C.

Those guys have played 1936 minutes. Stainbrook has played 34.3% of that total.

- He's scored 41.0% of the field goals.
- He's scored 43.9% of the 2 pt FGs
- He's grabbed 36.8% of the Offensive rebounds.
- He's grabbed 42.1% of the defensive rebounds.
- He's got 73.5% of the assists.
- He's got 45.5% of the steals.
- He's got 46.8% of the blocks.
- He's committed 28.0% of the fouls.
- He's scored 38.2% of the points.

So, on a per minute basis, he's the best of 5 big men when it comes to scoring, rebounding, assists, steals and blocks. Oh, and he doesnt foul as much as the others either.

Yeah, who needs that guy?

I was going to reply with a simple "No". You really did your homework. So now I will simply reply... NO!

[Masterofreality]

No.

[RoseyMuskie]

I think it's fair to question the turnovers as of late, but other than that, no.

09 presents the major point - Xavier's defense is the issue. I was told, and this is no joke, that Xavier's AdjD against Marquette was worse than both the Eastern and Western Conf. during the NBA All Star game last night. That's saying something.

[NY44]

I know, I know.. The players read the boards and we don't want to bash our guys, etc..

But, does anyone else feel like this team plays better without the clog in the middle? When Stain is in the game, we focus the offense around him to the point that we turn it over trying to feed him, we stop driving and we look so slow. During the comeback at Marquette, Jalen was in the game and finally looked comfortable. Jalen is the new school big man in big time college basketball.

Obviously Stainbrook has been a key to this team, but I was legitimately excited when he fouled out against Marquette. We were simply a better team, in that sort of game, without him.

Hey look. ignorance.

[XUFan09]

1.35 points per possession (not sure if that's adjusted) is easily Xavier's worst mark of the season on defense. If you account for...

-Marquette scoring a lot off live-ball turnovers
- Marquette possibly being just a bad match-up for Xavier defensively

...that's still awful.

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[GoMuskies]

At some point Fox threw up a graphic that had us at 50% shooting in the first half and something like 7-8 at that point of the second half, and we were still down 10. I took that as a really, really, REALLY bad sign.

[LA Muskie]

Wow. Um...what they said.

[mistabeecee41]

Nope. Yes, we get annoyed when he misses bunnies sometimes. Yes, he'll make the wrong pass when trying to go for a home run instead of the easy play. The good easily outweighs the bad, he's by far our most important big.

[GetUp5]

No one thinks that 9/10 of the guys who play in the rotation would benefit from playing in a faster paced offense?

We cater to 1 guy who slows everything down. We play better fast.

[BandAid]

Hey look. ignorance.

A better way to reply to ignorance:


This is common wisdom, but consider these points:

1. Xavier's adjusted offensive efficiency is 30th in the nation (and that's after a slow start).
2. They manage that with Philmore easily getting the second most minutes among bigs.
3. Philmore personally has an above average offensive rating with a usage rate of 19.7%, on the border between Kenpom's "Role Player" and "Significant Contributor."

Xavier's offense isn't the problem. In fact, having two space-eating bigs in at the same time (who also at least have to be respected from mid-range) has regularly presented match-up problems for our opponents. This is part of the reason that Xavier has often dominated in the paint. Also, it's not like Jalen Reynolds is going to stretch out the defense. James Farr will, but he is easily the worst defensive big on the team, and defense is Xavier's major problem. Is Philmore an elite defender? No, but he understands defensive positioning much better than our two underclassman bigs.

I like that Jalen Reynolds is coming on strong, because he has the potential to be an impact player and he gives Xavier some important flexibility. He also easily has more upside than Philmore; he just hasn't quite attained it yet. Philmore has become a whipping boy for Xavier fans, especially those thrown off by the unorthodox front line put out there when he is next to Stainbrook. The thing is, it has worked fairly well, based off the actual evidence and not the "eye test." An emerging Reynolds next to Stainbrook could end up being better. In fact, I'd place a small bet on that happening by the last game of the season. Hopefully, sooner than that though. I'd like to trade "fairly well" for "good to really good," which is what a fully emergent Reynolds would offer.


We have 5 guys that play essentially all the minutes at PF / C.

Those guys have played 1936 minutes. Stainbrook has played 34.3% of that total.

- He's scored 41.0% of the field goals.
- He's scored 43.9% of the 2 pt FGs
- He's grabbed 36.8% of the Offensive rebounds.
- He's grabbed 42.1% of the defensive rebounds.
- He's got 73.5% of the assists.
- He's got 45.5% of the steals.
- He's got 46.8% of the blocks.
- He's committed 28.0% of the fouls.
- He's scored 38.2% of the points.

So, on a per minute basis, he's the best of 5 big men when it comes to scoring, rebounding, assists, steals and blocks. Oh, and he doesnt foul as much as the others either.

Yeah, who needs that guy?

[NY44]

A better way to reply to ignorance:

1375

[THRILLHOUSE]

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[LadyMuskie]

The only part of this I agree with is the part about Stainbrook always whining to the Refs. He should can that shit.

I do agree with this. His whining to the refs is irritating, and if he wasn't on our team, we'd be all over him for that.

[Masterofreality]

I think it's fair to question the turnovers as of late, but other than that, no.


Against Marquette, there were equal opportunity offenders. Stain had 4 Turnovers, JMart 4, Semaj 5, Dee 3 and BRandolph 2.

There was a lot of sharing of suck.

[Cheesehead]

No. Silly question.

[xufan2434]

I understand the thought.. He slows the game down and seems like he misses a lot of bunnies (Numbers are still pretty good), but who else do you plan on putting in there? He does have a lot of turnovers, but also a lot of assists. The turnovers Saturday were from a team as a whole just honestly not being strong with the ball and being super lackadaisical... Which I feel like has been somewhat consistent with Mack coached teams.

A better question would be what happened to Jimmy Farr

[xu82]

A better question would be what happened to Jimmy Farr

Hopefully Mr Farr learns a lesson the way Jalen did from his time off and comes back looking like a new and improved stud! These two guys have crazy upside! I am nervous about the present, but jacked about the future!!! (Yes, that's a lot of exclamation points.)