Marcus Smart

[gladdenguy]

I think he handled it okay. Yes he pushed him and he's gotta be smarter than that but if the fan used the n word it could have been a lot worse. That fan just looks like a prick. Maybe somebody else beat the fans face after the game. You are about to get a win against a top 25 team and your program sucks pal. Helping the young man out gettin to his feet and keeping your mouth shut may have been a better option.

[Juice]

I think he handled it okay. Yes he pushed him and he's gotta be smarter than that but if the fan used the n word it could have been a lot worse. That fan just looks like a prick. Maybe somebody else beat the fans face after the game. You are about to get a win against a top 25 team and your program sucks pal. Helping the young man out gettin to his feet and keeping your mouth shut may have been a better option.

There is video of that guy getting into it with players in other games besides this one. IMO, Jeff Orr is a bigger jackass then Smart.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0NdJahHN0w

[xubrew]

Marcus Smart pushed the guy, which is not okay, and it is not allowed.

Unfortunately, middle aged guys yell all kinds of nonsense at college players, which is not okay, but IS allowed. Smart shouldn't have shoved him, but if he hadn't, no attention would have been brought to this.

I don't get the "I can say what I want because I bought a ticket mentality." What is it about buying a ticket that makes people think they have permission to act like complete assholes?? Had this happened on the street, Smart wouldn't be in any trouble at all and the guy would have gotten his ass kicked.

You can't buy a ticket to a movie and say what you want and act like an asshole.

You can't buy a plane ticket or bus ticket and act like an asshole.

You can't go to a play and act like an asshole.

But, at a sporting event, it's okay to buy a ticket, yell at college kids, and feel good about yourself if you get under their skin. What a great society we live in.

[GoMuskies]

Do we know what the guy said for sure yet? Because on the street it is most definitely not okay to beat the hell out of anyone who says something to you that you don't like. The guy doing the talking risks an ass-kicking, but the guy doing the ass-kicking certainly risks ending up in jail, too.

[xsteve1]

Do we know what the guy said for sure yet? Because on the street it is most definitely not okay to beat the hell out of anyone who says something to you that you don't like. The guy doing the talking risks an ass-kicking, but the guy doing the ass-kicking certainly risks ending up in jail, too.

The jury is still out if he actually used the N word. The people around him would have heard him if he did and I'm sure somebody would have said something by now. I heard that he may have called Smart "overrated". The guy is supposedly TT #1 fan (I didn't even know TT had basketball fans).

[GoMuskies]

I heard that he may have called Smart "overrated".

If that's what he said, Smart's season should be over.

[mistabeecee41]

shouldn't have pushed the guy, regardless of how much an ass he was.

funny though. different scenarios, but the media seems to be defending smart for the mostpart. they turned Tu into a villain when he didn't touch anybody and just said the "g word".

[paulxu]

I wish Christi Mack had kicked some a$$ in the Dayton stands...but she's got too much class for that.

[The_Mack_Pack]

It was just a shove, it definitely could've been a lot worse. Watching it live, I was worried something worse could've happened when the fans rushed the court. Smart should've been sent to the locker room right away.

Also, if the fan said something racist, which he probably did, he should lose his season ticket opportunities. It's embarrassing for Texas Tech to have him as their "super fan".

[Burrcats]

The jury is still out if he actually used the N word. The people around him would have heard him if he did and I'm sure somebody would have said something by now. I heard that he may have called Smart "overrated". The guy is supposedly TT #1 fan (I didn't even know TT had basketball fans).

Try "Go back to Africa you n-----." Then when Smart reacted he said "Sorry about that."

No surprise this happened at a Texas Tech game. They have long since been in the running for worst fanbase in college athletics.


Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow 12h
Jeff Orr to a #TexasTech friend of mine via text "I kinda let my mouth say something I shouldn't have,I feel bad" #MarcusSmart

D.Mason ‏@dmasonart 10h
Some things are hard to ignore, BUT no excuses! Deal with your consequences. I was called the N word EVERY game I played in Lubbock!

[xsteve1]

Try "Go back to Africa you n-----." Then when Smart reacted he said "Sorry about that."

No surprise this happened at a Texas Tech game. They have long since been in the running for worst fanbase in college athletics.


Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow 12h
Jeff Orr to a #TexasTech friend of mine via text "I kinda let my mouth say something I shouldn't have,I feel bad" #MarcusSmart

D.Mason ‏@dmasonart 10h
Some things are hard to ignore, BUT no excuses! Deal with your consequences. I was called the N word EVERY game I played in Lubbock!

If I'm a fan and heard that I would have went after him.

Gottlieb later tweeted this....

Doug Gottlieb ✔ @GottliebShow
Follow
"wasn't vulgar or the N Word" another text from Orr - #MarcusSmart

[Burrcats]

If I'm a fan and heard that I would have went after him.

Gottlieb later tweeted this....

Doug Gottlieb ✔ @GottliebShow
Follow
"wasn't vulgar or the N Word" another text from Orr - #MarcusSmart

I highly doubt Orr is being honest. A TV station in Oklahoma reported he said what I posted earlier within minutes of the game ending. It is more likely that it was along the lines of that.

[GoMuskies]

A TV station in Oklahoma

Of course a TV station in OKLAHOMA would report it that way.

[The_Mack_Pack]

http://deadspin.com/go-back-to-africa-twitter-rumor-becomes-marcus-smart-1519336610?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Here's a Deadspin article about how the Oklahoma news station report came about.

[Burrcats]

Of course a TV station in OKLAHOMA would report it that way.

http://deadspin.com/go-back-to-africa-twitter-rumor-becomes-marcus-smart-1519336610

[GoMuskies]

http://deadspin.com/go-back-to-africa-twitter-rumor-becomes-marcus-smart-1519336610

So basically at this point no one knows what he said. Other than him and maybe Smart.

[XU 87]

So basically at this point no one knows what he said. Other than him and maybe Smart.

and the people around them.

[kmcrawfo]

and the people around them.

Doesn't matter what the fan said. An athlete cannot intentionally enter the crowd and make contact/assault a fan in response to any verbal attack no matter how severe.

If a fan comes onto the court and threatens a player, that is different.

This is worse than what Tu and company did. Smart may be sitting for quite some time and it would be to make any argument against that decision.

[Muskie]

This thing reminds me of the Ron Artest -pistons melee.

As a player you do not go into the stands or interact with the a fan in that matter. Let stadium security handle that stuff

[Retire33]

This thing reminds me of the Ron Artest -pistons melee.

As a player you do not go into the stands or interact with the a fan in that matter. Let stadium security handle that stuff

I question where his teammates were when he landed on the baseline to pick him up. The officials?

People having an instant reaction to something like that in heat of the battle is hard to get upset about. Will he have to live with the result? Sure. I paint this kid, or any kid (Tu) with a broad brush is just wrong. I just hope the "fan" gets the same treatment for his part in the incident (more like just an action and reaction).

[wkrq59]

People. Athletes must never go into the stands and react with fans, make physical contact with fans or attempt to injure fans in any way. Period. Smart recently has had a history of such short-tempered, thin-skinned actions.
That said, the fan must suffer in proportion to the sentence meted to Smart by the Big 12 or OSU. His season tickets should be revolked and he should be banned from that arena for a year or more.
There is too damned much lack of civility and it goes from attitudes shown to teachers by students all the way up to profound disrespect for the President of the United States. Please spare me the tit-for-tat or freedom of speech bull sh!t defenses most commonly profferred today. The lack of respect and disregard for human dignity is not only disgusting, it is the reason for the climate of violence we see throughout society today and has no place at sporting or any other public events. I don't support the Luther Smith (public retraining or reflection session philosophy), but something has to be done to restore the human dignity to which we are all entitled in dealing with our fellow man.

[Juice]

People. Athletes must never go into the stands and react with fans, make physical contact with fans or attempt to injure fans in any way. Period. Smart recently has had a history of such short-tempered, thin-skinned actions.
That said, the fan must suffer in proportion to the sentence meted to Smart by the Big 12 or OSU. His season tickets should be revolked and he should be banned from that arena for a year or more.
There is too damned much lack of civility and it goes from attitudes shown to teachers by students all the way up to profound disrespect for the President of the United States. Please spare me the tit-for-tat or freedom of speech bull sh!t defenses most commonly profferred today. The lack of respect and disregard for human dignity is not only disgusting, it is the reason for the climate of violence we see throughout society today and has no place at sporting or any other public events. I don't support the Luther Smith (public retraining or reflection session philosophy), but something has to be done to restore the human dignity to which we are all entitled in dealing with our fellow man.

It's also one thing if it's a professional athlete, but if the NCAA isn't going to pay these guys, then they sure as hell better do something to Jeff Orr (the fan) who obviously thinks a ticket allows him to do anything he wants in a college arena.

[XU 87]

Doesn't matter what the fan said. An athlete cannot intentionally enter the crowd and make contact/assault a fan in response to any verbal attack no matter how severe.

If a fan comes onto the court and threatens a player, that is different.

This is worse than what Tu and company did. Smart may be sitting for quite some time and it would be to make any argument against that decision.

I'm just responding to who else would have heard what this fan said to Smart. The people around the fan should know.

As for banning this fan for the rest of the season, let's find out what he said first before discussing what should happen to him, if anything.

[kmcrawfo]

I'm just responding to who else would have heard what this fan said to Smart. The people around the fan should know.

As for banning this fan for the rest of the season, let's find out what he said first before discussing what should happen to him, if anything.

What to fan said will be interesting, but no matter how profound or provocative the statement may have been it will not justify an athlete assaulting/making contact/entering the crowd.

Smart should be disciplined severely.

The fan may have some action taken against him as well, but if Smart would have notified security/coaching/officiating the action against the fan likely would have been more severe than what will happen now.

[94GRAD]

Reporting he's getting a three game suspension.

[Juice]

What to fan said will be interesting, but no matter how profound or provocative the statement may have been it will not justify an athlete assaulting/making contact/entering the crowd.

Smart should be disciplined severely.

The fan may have some action taken against him as well, but if Smart would have notified security/coaching/officiating the action against the fan likely would have been more severe than what will happen now.

Jeff Orr says he called Smart a "piece of crap" and did not use a racial slur. He is "suspending" himself by not going to anymore games this season.

[Charlesbt4]

To say that Smart "went into the stands," as if he pursued the fan, is wildly inaccurate. He was in the stands by way of the fact that the defensive play resulted in him falling into the crowd. That doesn't justify what he did, but it is a point worth making.

[XU 87]

The fan shouldn't have called him a piece of crap (if that's what occurred). Immature and bush league. On the other hand, I think I've heard worse on this board.

It appears that Smart has some anger and self-control issues.

[Muskie]

I question where his teammates were when he landed on the baseline to pick him up. The officials?

People having an instant reaction to something like that in heat of the battle is hard to get upset about. Will he have to live with the result? Sure. I paint this kid, or any kid (Tu) with a broad brush is just wrong. I just hope the "fan" gets the same treatment for his part in the incident (more like just an action and reaction).

I agree. I think the fan (assuming he said what he said) should have his tickers revoked/banned from the building. Smart though also needs to have some consequences. We cannot have people going into the stands and pushing people. That's a line that cannot be crossed for the good of both sides.

[Muskie]

The fan shouldn't have called him a piece of crap (if that's what occurred). Immature and bush league. On the other hand, I think I've heard worse on this board.

It appears that Smart has some anger and self-control issues.

I think we both know that he didn't "just" call him a piece of crap. That doesn't make sense. And I doubt Smart responds in such a manner. He surely heard worse than that from Players on the floor or in open gym.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I think we both know that he didn't "just" call him a piece of crap. That doesn't make sense. And I doubt Smart responds in such a manner. He surely heard worse than that from Players on the floor or in open gym.

TTU released a video taken from a GoPro cam on the baseline where you can hear him yelling "piece of crap". Of course that is the only real audible thing from the video. And definitely possible that superfan had been yelling crap at him all game and Marcus had enough and just snapped at that line. I wish Ford would have addressed the question from the presser where they asked what Marcus told him what he heard.

But at the end of it, I think both Smart getting 3 games and the fan not going back to any more games this year are the appropriate actions.

[xubrew]

He should have notified security, but I doubt they would have done anything. They usually don't. The fan wasn't kicked out after the incident, so I seriously doubt they would have done anything to him had there not been a shoving. He shouldn't have shoved him, but let's not pretend that there are ever any consequences for the fans

[xu82]

I haven't read every comment, and I don't have to. You just can't do that. Period. I don't care what he might have said. Be smart or hurt your team. Whether it be that game or the ensuing distraction. And it's just plain dumb. (The action, not the kid, in case anyone wants to take offense.) If you react, you're the loser. I know it's hard for young kids, but that's the deal. It's not their first time in the spotlight.

[LadyMuskie]

Smart should have known better. If you remain focused you can drown out the morons. Regardless, laying hands on someone is never the answer.

That said, Orr should lose his season tickets forever, at least on the floor. If it's true that this isn't his first go round with an opposing player, he's making the entire university look bad. At some point, having floor seats shouldn't mean that you get to say and do whatever you want. Dude clearly has issues. I'm glad he's not a Xavier fan, and I hope he had the $hit scared out of him when Smart shoved him. Maybe he'll learn a lesson in how not to be Tech's biggest douchecanoe.

[paulxu]

Maybe he'll learn a lesson in how not to be Tech's biggest douchecanoe.

OK, yes, I had to look that one up.
Comes with the territory (getting old).

[Xman95]

It's also one thing if it's a professional athlete, but if the NCAA isn't going to pay these guys, then they sure as hell better do something to Jeff Orr (the fan) who obviously thinks a ticket allows him to do anything he wants in a college arena.

Not to jump into another topic, but I'm pretty sure Marcus Smart is on scholarship. He might not be getting a check every other week, but he's getting paid.

[xubrew]

Does anyone else not like that it is generally accepted behavior to go to a basketball game, yell at and basically provoke the players, yell at the cheerleaders, yell at the opposing fans, coaches, band members, and everyone else??

Smart should not have shoved him. To be honest, I think it should have been a little more than three games.

My only question is why do we come down so hard on something a kid does after he has been provoked, yet completely ignore the person that provoked him??

You know what could have prevented this?? Smart just walking away.

You know what else could have prevented this?? kicking the fan out, and any other fans out, that act that way.

What kind of an existence is that?? Who feels good about themselves because they went to a game, yelled at a bunch of college aged players, coaches, fans and college cheerleaders, and managed to get under their skin and/or hurt their feelings?? Who gets any enjoyment out of that?? Do you go to work the next day and brag about how you hurt some college kid's feelings, or piss off some fans or cheerleaders?? You'd have to be a really big asshole to act that way, yet there are people at every college basketball game that's played that act that way, and we all seem to think it's okay.

This only seems to happen in sports. If you go to a show and start yelling at the performers, you can't just claim that it's okay to act that way because you bought a ticket.

No, Marcus Smart shouldn't have done what he did. That should not be allowed. But fans should not be allowed to act that way either, but they are. Security did not throw the fan out. He had done things like this before (probably every game) and had never been thrown out. There are assholes at every game that do that and are not thrown out. I do not understand why we collectively think it's okay for fans to act that way.

[GoMuskies]

If I yelled at a player and got under his skin and maybe caused him to lose his composure, and Xavier ended up winning by 1 instead of losing by 1, yeah, I'd have felt pretty good about that when I was a student. Hopefully the getting under the skin/causing discomfort is somewhat creative, though.

Of course, that guy is a bit old to be acting like that.

[nuts4xu]

I love going to games and yelling respectful, witty, and tasteful comments at players, but I do get more enjoyment out of belittling the refs. I never get personal and if I told ANYONE he was a piece of crap - especially a college kid - that close to his face, I would do so expecting him to punch me in the nose - no matter who it is. If the player is in the stands by happenstance, and you disrespect the kid, you deserve what is coming to you. Marcus Smart needs to walk away in those situations, and I would not recommend he puts his hands on Jeff Orr, but fans can't give shit to a kid who is right there in front of him. You do that on the streets Marcus Smart would have knocked dude the fu** out.

I am glad we have railings and stuff to keep opposing players out of our stands. There are some real knuckleheads in any arena, and I don't want any players getting the Marcus Smart treatment from our fans.

[xubrew]

I'm fine with taunting and witty comments that are made within the context of the game. I actually think that's part of the fun.

But, even if we cannot agree on exactly where the line is, there are certain behaviors that we can all agree are clearly over it.

For those of you that are parents, ask yourself this...

Say a fan had a fathead of your daughter, who is basically a toddler (because these guys who have kids are generally of that age), and was yelling for the entire game about how it was his future trophy wife, and all the things he was going to do to her.

How would you feel?? If you were that players parent, and that toddler was your grandchild how would you feel??

If you knew security wouldn't throw them out, how would you feel??

Most probably wouldn't retaliate. Most here realize that you shouldn't retaliate. But, I'd have a hard time believing anyone who would say that wouldn't bother them at all, or that if something like that happened to them, they'd feel it was okay for a fan to do that.

Everyone is saying that players can't retaliate, and they're right, but at the same time most people saying that have never been in a situation where a crowd full of people were being complete assholes to them.

So, again, why is it acceptable for fans to act like assholes and provoke players if it's not acceptable at all for players to respond to the provocation??

I know what the TTU fan said to smart was not along the lines of the example I gave, but some of the behavior is like that, and it's tolerated.

[nuts4xu]

So, again, why is it acceptable for fans to act like assholes and provoke players if it's not acceptable at all for players to respond to the provocation??



It's not acceptable for fans to act like assholes and provoke players, no one has said this is ok. It is also not acceptable for players to respond to provocation.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

[XUFan09]

It's not acceptable for fans to act like assholes and provoke players, no one has said this is ok. It is also not acceptable for players to respond to provocation.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

I think in our sports culture though, it is acceptable to be a complete asshole to opposing players and fans. Or at the very least, it's allowable without any questions.

[xubrew]

I think in our sports culture though, it is acceptable to be a complete asshole to opposing players and fans. Or at the very least, it's allowable without any questions.

I completely agree with this. That's what I have a problem with.

[Kahns Krazy]

Does anyone else not like that it is generally accepted behavior to go to a basketball game, yell at and basically provoke the players, yell at the cheerleaders, yell at the opposing fans, coaches, band members, and everyone else??
.

I am one who generally accepts this. Comparing an athletic event to a Broadway show is a bit of a stretch. Yelling at a sporting event doesn't interfere with others' ability to enjoy the event, while doing so at a movie or play certainly would. Secondly, this kind of activity is part of the game, and indeed, it starts on the court. Trash talk and getting in players' heads is part of the game. While I don't think yelling "you're a piece of crap" is clever or original, I do not think it raises to the level of being unusual, and I seriously doubt that it's the worst thing Smart heard that day.

I think fans should be restricted from yelling profane or racist things, or physical threats. Beyond that, I'm not sure how you would restrict fan behavior in a way that I would agree with, and certainly not anything that would make yelling "you're a piece of crap" against the fan code.

[xubrew]

While I don't think yelling "you're a piece of crap" is clever or original, I do not think it raises to the level of being unusual, and I seriously doubt that it's the worst thing Smart heard that day.


I'm sure it wasn't the worst thing he heard. If it were, he probably wouldn't have been as likely to snap.

After the game was all but decided, when most of the fans were cheering and exciting that they had just won their biggest game in five or six years, this guy decides to yell at an opposing player that he's a piece of crap right after Smart had fallen into the crowd...on top of everything else he had probably been yelling during the game.

I'm sorry, but I don't know how to describe that in any other way other than that he's a complete asshole.

EDIT: I don't like what Smart did. But, what I don't get is that if people feel what Smart did was not acceptable (and it wasn't), then why isn't it unacceptable to blatantly provoke him into doing something like that??

[Muskie]

Article from the Indystar (http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2014/02/09/pacers-sloan-knows-the-guy-at-texas-tech/5345261/). Apparently this "fan" has been a problem for awhile.

[Cheesehead]

as Mike Golic said today why in the world is a 50 year old yelling "You're a piece of crap" at a 20 something year old at a basketball game? Grow up. Are you still in HS?

[xubrew]

Article from the Indystar (http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2014/02/09/pacers-sloan-knows-the-guy-at-texas-tech/5345261/). Apparently this "fan" has been a problem for awhile.

He had been a "problem" before, but yet nothing was ever done about it. He was allowed to keep doing it.

There are probably thousands of other fans out there who are just like him or worse, and they're allowed to keep doing it. There's several at every college game that's played.

This is tolerated. I don't think it should be, but it is.

[Cheesehead]

Hopefully this "loyal fan" is so ashamed of himself that he won't be such a dick anymore

[nuts4xu]

Not that it matters, but does anyone know for sure if Marcus Smart is a "piece of crap"? If so, maybe Jeff Orr was just grammatically correct.

[vee4xu]

This is where we all are in the Xbox/ESPN driven world today. Neither party was right in this case. The player has been assessed a three game suspension. At this point, accepting this video game, media driven world, I ask myself two questions. First, how is Smart's reaction in a highly charged, emotional game any different than Richard Shurman's at the end of the SF game? Second, if this dude who opened his yapper has reportedly been consistently an issue, has the university taken steps or will they take steps to levy some kind of suspension on him attending games? Seems what's good for Smart should be good for the loudmouth.

[Juice]

Not to jump into another topic, but I'm pretty sure Marcus Smart is on scholarship. He might not be getting a check every other week, but he's getting paid.

Using ESPN's Bomani Jone's words here, but money is green. Getting paid means using the money to buy whatever you want. Can these guys convert what they're getting paid into other goods or services? Nope. They aren't getting paid.

[nuts4xu]

Second, if this dude who opened his yapper has reportedly been consistently an issue, has the university taken steps or will they take steps to levy some kind of suspension on him attending games? Seems what's good for Smart should be good for the loudmouth.

He met with the university and "voluntarily" suspended himself from attending Texas Tech games the rest of this season (home or away). FYI.

[vee4xu]

He met with the university and "voluntarily" suspended himself from attending Texas Tech games the rest of this season (home or away). FYI.

Hadn't seen that. Thanks, nuts for the update.

[danaandvictory]

Lousy kids with their ESPNs and Nintendos...

[SM#24]

He met with the university and "voluntarily" suspended himself from attending Texas Tech games the rest of this season (home or away). FYI.
That's mighty white of him

[drudy23]

First, how is Smart's reaction in a highly charged, emotional game any different than Richard Shurman's at the end of the SF game? .

1) Sherman engaged with a player on the field, not a fan in the stands
2) Sherman didn't push anyone

Huge differences.

[Burrcats]

If I yelled at a player and got under his skin and maybe caused him to lose his composure, and Xavier ended up winning by 1 instead of losing by 1, yeah, I'd have felt pretty good about that when I was a student. Hopefully the getting under the skin/causing discomfort is somewhat creative, though.

Of course, that guy is a bit old to be acting like that.

So I take it that you weren't the Xavier fan dressed like a Pope who was yelling profanities at Yancy Gates for 10 straight minutes during UC's shoot around? I hope that was no one on this board...

[Kahns Krazy]

I'm sure it wasn't the worst thing he heard. If it were, he probably wouldn't have been as likely to snap.

After the game was all but decided, when most of the fans were cheering and exciting that they had just won their biggest game in five or six years, this guy decides to yell at an opposing player that he's a piece of crap right after Smart had fallen into the crowd...on top of everything else he had probably been yelling during the game.

I'm sorry, but I don't know how to describe that in any other way other than that he's a complete asshole.

EDIT: I don't like what Smart did. But, what I don't get is that if people feel what Smart did was not acceptable (and it wasn't), then why isn't it unacceptable to blatantly provoke him into doing something like that??

In what world is taunting someone with words "blatently provoking" physical contact? Do you really not see the fundamental difference between calling someone a piece of crap and physically touching someone? I was sitting with some other awesome Xavier fan down low at the Seton Hall game, and the kid behind us kept yelling at an opposing player that he played like a girl. Should that kid get thrown out of the game? Does it matter if the player can hear it or not? Doesn't the entire student section taunt every opposing player that draws a foul in unison? What is the difference?

I went back and rewatched the clip. Smart is being assisted up and turns around and goes deeper into the crowd. He lost his shit, and frankly I think a 3 game suspension is pretty light. He clipped the woman next to the guy pretty good too. If you think the game was "all but decided" then why is Smart fouling so hard ? What about all of the things Smart said? I clearly see an F bomb and a "Bulls**t" in the replay. It's okay for Smart to say these things, but a fan can't say "crap"? What are the rules of proper behavior exactly?

Does anyone really think that the fan said anything racist in nature with that large black woman standing right behind him? I'm sure that fan is a total blowhard and probably a real asshole. I'm sure there are plenty of jock sniffing assholes in the Cintas Center on any given night. I think this one is 100% on Smart.

[sweet16]

I think he handled it okay.


Thank god the adults in the room don't share your warped sense of personal behavior.

[RealDeal]

At least Smart didn't go all Yancy Gates on the fan. That's something.

[bleedXblue]

I dont know how you look at this situation and say that both of these knuckleheads aren't at fault.

Does that guy say the same thing to Smart walking down the street or in an elevator or any other public place?

Why is it ok to verbally assault anyone at any given time?

Because he's a fan and sitting in the stands he can say whatever he wants b/c he feels "protected"........because he bought a ticket?

I dont condone what Smart did........at all.......but a part of me gets why Smart did what he did.

[drudy23]

So I take it that you weren't the Xavier fan dressed like a Pope who was yelling profanities at Yancy Gates for 10 straight minutes during UC's shoot around? I hope that was no one on this board...

Yelling profanities at Yancey Gates is always acceptable, even in a classroom of 4 year olds.

[Kahns Krazy]

I dont know how you look at this situation and say that both of these knuckleheads aren't at fault.

Does that guy say the same thing to Smart walking down the street or in an elevator or any other public place?

Why is it ok to verbally assault anyone at any given time?

Because he's a fan and sitting in the stands he can say whatever he wants b/c he feels "protected"........because he bought a ticket?

I dont condone what Smart did........at all.......but a part of me gets why Smart did what he did.

No he doesn't say the same thing to him, but it's not an elevator or walking down the street. Smart is performing in an athletic event and heckling is part of that setting. Taking it out of that setting is changing the circumstances, and not all circumstances are equal.

Additionally, "You're a piece of crap" or "You suck" or whatever isn't anywhere close to verbal assault on a sidewalk or in an elevator and certainly not at a sporting event. Assault is "an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact...The act required for an assault must be overt. Although words alone are insufficient, they might create an assault when coupled with some action that indicates the ability to carry out the threat. A mere threat to harm is not an assault; however, a threat combined with a raised fist might be sufficient if it causes a reasonable apprehension of harm in the victim.Intent is an essential element of assault".

I understand that Smart felt provoked, and I get that it is possible for a person to be provoked into a physical act, but the rules of our society say that you can pretty much say whatever you want, but when you get into unwanted physical contact, that's where the rules change.

[xubrew]

In what world is taunting someone with words "blatently provoking" physical contact? Do you really not see the fundamental difference between calling someone a piece of crap and physically touching someone? I was sitting with some other awesome Xavier fan down low at the Seton Hall game, and the kid behind us kept yelling at an opposing player that he played like a girl. Should that kid get thrown out of the game? Does it matter if the player can hear it or not? Doesn't the entire student section taunt every opposing player that draws a foul in unison? What is the difference?

I went back and rewatched the clip. Smart is being assisted up and turns around and goes deeper into the crowd. He lost his shit, and frankly I think a 3 game suspension is pretty light. He clipped the woman next to the guy pretty good too. If you think the game was "all but decided" then why is Smart fouling so hard ? What about all of the things Smart said? I clearly see an F bomb and a "Bulls**t" in the replay. It's okay for Smart to say these things, but a fan can't say "crap"? What are the rules of proper behavior exactly?

Does anyone really think that the fan said anything racist in nature with that large black woman standing right behind him? I'm sure that fan is a total blowhard and probably a real asshole. I'm sure there are plenty of jock sniffing assholes in the Cintas Center on any given night. I think this one is 100% on Smart.

If you walk down the street screaming at people that they are piece of crap (or worse, if what you speculated about it not being the worst thing he heard that night to be true), there is a good chance you will provoke physical contact. Do it to someone for two hours, and there is a greater chance you'll provoke it.

Go to any playground court and do that. It'll be interesting to see how long before you blatantly provoke physical contact.

A sporting event is really the only place where you aren't likely to provoke physical contact when acting like a complete asshole for two hours straight.

Calling a Seton Hall player a girl is kind of stupid. They beat us, and most women's teams play better than Seton Hall's men's team. So, no real issues there.

I agree that Smart deserved what he got. I agree that it was somewhat light. But, I also think the fan was acting like an asshole, and that he probably acts like an asshole at every game he goes to for the entire game. In fact, I think that's been pretty well documented by now. Ultimately, I think getting rid of all the fans who are assholes would be better for everyone.

[GoMuskies]

'brew, why you hate Robin Ficker?!?

You know, it's hard to believe all Bob Knight's players haven't kicked his ass. And that every ref hasn't physically tussled with Mick Cronin, Coach K and the other notorious pottymouth coaches.

[boozehound]

If you walk down the street screaming at people that they are piece of crap (or worse, if what you speculated about it not being the worst thing he heard that night to be true), there is a good chance you will provoke physical contact. Do it to someone for two hours, and there is a greater chance you'll provoke it.

Go to any playground court and do that. It'll be interesting to see how long before you blatantly provoke physical contact.

A sporting event is really the only place where you aren't likely to provoke physical contact when acting like a complete asshole for two hours straight.

I agree that Smart deserved what he got. I agree that it was somewhat light. But, I also think the fan was acting like an asshole, and that he probably acts like an asshole at every game he goes to for the entire game. In fact, I think that's been pretty well documented by now. Ultimately, I think getting rid of all the fans who are assholes would be better for everyone.

You and I must live in different worlds. I see people act like assholes all the time and nobody resorts to physical violence. I think you may be overstating this a little bit. I live in Cincinnati though, not Staten Island. I'm sure some places are worse than others in terms of people throwing down for no reason.

Marcus Smart is going to have a tough life ahead of him if he responds to verbal insults with physical violence. The fan was being a jerk, but you can't just go around assaulting everybody who says something mean to you. I think 3 games is light as well.

[Kahns Krazy]

If you walk down the street screaming at people that they are piece of crap (or worse, if what you speculated about it not being the worst thing he heard that night to be true), there is a good chance you will provoke physical contact. Do it to someone for two hours, and there is a greater chance you'll provoke it.

Go to any playground court and do that. It'll be interesting to see how long before you blatantly provoke physical contact.

A sporting event is really the only place where you aren't likely to provoke physical contact when acting like a complete asshole for two hours straight.

Calling a Seton Hall player a girl is kind of stupid. They beat us, and most women's teams play better than Seton Hall's men's team. So, no real issues there.

I agree that Smart deserved what he got. I agree that it was somewhat light. But, I also think the fan was acting like an asshole, and that he probably acts like an asshole at every game he goes to for the entire game. In fact, I think that's been pretty well documented by now.

Wait - calling a grown male athelete a woman is no problem, but calling him feces is? Can I get your personal rulebook on acceptable taunting so I can be sure to follow it? What if I call him a water buffalo? What about booger? What if I call him a pretty good piece of crap - like that perfect turd after a great meal, and I mean it in a really complimentary way? What if I call him "craps" because he keeps coming up 2, 3, and 12?

Why don't you head out the the playground court and repeatedly refer to one of the players as "her" and see how long it is before you get a little physical contact.

We don't disagree that the fan is an asshole. Where we disagree is if just being an asshole in any way alleviates Smart of his culpability in initiating contact with said asshole. Dealing with assholes is a part of real life.

[GoMuskies]

I should have kicked the asses of a few of the partners in my old firm. They acted like assholes on the regular.

[xubrew]

Wait - calling a grown male athelete a woman is no problem, but calling him feces is? Can I get your personal rulebook on acceptable taunting so I can be sure to follow it? What if I call him a water buffalo? What about booger? What if I call him a pretty good piece of crap - like that perfect turd after a great meal, and I mean it in a really complimentary way? What if I call him "craps" because he keeps coming up 2, 3, and 12?

Why don't you head out the the playground court and repeatedly refer to one of the players as "her" and see how long it is before you get a little physical contact.

We don't disagree that the fan is an asshole. Where we disagree is if just being an asshole in any way alleviates Smart of his culpability in initiating contact with said asshole. Dealing with assholes is a part of real life.

No we don't. I don't think that it does. I think his suspension would have been at least five games, and perhaps even the rest of the regular season. I also don't know why the Big Twelve didn't do a damn thing. Had Oklahoma State not suspended him, I wonder if the Big Twelve would have. If I worked in the league office I'd want it to be more than just three games. He shoved a fan.

Kahns, where did I say that Smart shouldn't get in trouble because the guy was being an asshole?? I don't feel that way at all. I think Smart should have been punished more than what he was.

My thing is that in addition to that, people shouldn't be allowed to act like complete assholes. They are part of the problem. Am I really out on a limb for believing that?? I don't think he should be allowed back. He probably shouldn't have been allowed back before this happened.

I think calling a grown male a woman is stupid, and I made a bad joke about it. You got me there.

[xubrew]

In what world is taunting someone with words "blatently provoking" physical contact?


Why don't you head out the the playground court and repeatedly refer to one of the players as "her" and see how long it is before you get a little physical contact.

I guess you would agree that the playground courts is one world where you can't do that.

[xu82]

Hopefully this "loyal fan" is so ashamed of himself that he won't be such a dick anymore

I hope you're right. Sadly, there's also a good chance that the guy is proud of the outcome and the suspension. Idiots don't always know they're idiots...

[Burrcats]

Yelling profanities at Yancey Gates is always acceptable, even in a classroom of 4 year olds.

Therein lies the mentally of Xavier fans, which is why UC will never set foot in that arena again.

[Xtemporaneous]

If you arrive at a Xavier game before tip you'll hear the fan code of conduct being recited by our team on the video board. I tried looking for a Xavier code of conduct but couldn't find one. However I did find the Florida Gator fan code of conduct. And I'm sure it's probably the same for each team. Within that code I found this little gem:

Prohibited Behavior

Rowdy, threatening, or inconsiderate behavior such as standing in the aisles, portals or concourses, profane and abusive language, use of tobacco, fighting, and drunkenness will not be tolerated and can result in ejection, arrest, and/or loss of season ticket privileges.
Throwing of any objects in the stands, including paper and plastic cups will also be prohibited. Should you observe any of this disruptive behavior, please notify your nearest law enforcement officer. Standing on seats/bleachers is strictly prohibited.

It's fairly clear that the round mound of heckle Jeff Orr violated this policy and should've been removed from several TTU games. There's the one where he's giving the high hard sign to the player who dunked the ball going into the half. Then there's the Smart incident...

[xu82]

I am all for being vocal, and hopefully at least a little clever. I don't know exactly what this guy said (and only the people sitting right there REALLY know), but there is a line that can't be crossed. Having said that, retaliating is always a mistake and can make you the second loser in that situation. Now his team is hurt as well.

[LadyMuskie]

Therein lies the mentally of Xavier fans, which is why UC will never set foot in that arena again.

What is a mentally? How can I understand what silly excuse UC fans and coaches are using these days to explain why they're such babies and sore losers if you can't use the English language correctly?

[RealDeal]

Therein lies the mentally of Xavier fans, which is why UC will never set foot in that arena again.

Burrcats are you a teenager or just drunk all the time? I'm starting to pity you. Even hugs sobered up once in a while, give it a rest for a few weeks and then finish the season strong. C'mon man.

[NY44]

I get that he had to be suspended. OSU has an obligation to make sure they prevent this in the future anyway they can. However, when it comes to what's right and wrong, I have no problem with what Smart did. I know previous posters have mentioned that there are plenty of angry people yelling harsh words at Xavier games, I've undoubtedly been in that group, but there are consequences to actions. There's also a chance that Smart knew the fan is aggressive and was maybe even yelled at by him before.

To me, this isn't about a fan yelling at a player and a player pushing a fan. It's about a person yelling at another person and the second person standing up for himself, or better yet, a 50-something year old man yelling at a 19 year old student athlete. Comparing this to the Malice in the Palace is absurd. First things first, this isn't the NBA, and Smart is not receiving financial benefit for having that fan in the arena. Although the fan paid to be there, Smart is not benefiting from that ticket sale, so the customer-entertainer relationship/code of conduct is not there. This point is also furthered by the fact that Smart is probably bitter that he forewent the NBA Draft and is having a disappointing season at the cost of millions of dollars. Secondly, he didn't beat him up like Artest did to fans in the Palace, he just shoved him in response to harsh words, quickly moving away after the fact. I think any of us would expect the same reaction if we called someone else a piece of crap.

Some are saying that Smart overreacted and let his emotions get the best of him by pushing him, but did the fan not do the same thing by yelling at him?

[vee4xu]

1) Sherman engaged with a player on the field, not a fan in the stands
2) Sherman didn't push anyone

Huge differences.

My point focuses on Sherman's immediate post game interview with Erin Andrews and her question about the last play of the game. It is the interview that Sherman had to answer for and his response was that the emotional state he was in so close to the end of a highly charged, competitive game caused him to react as he did. In Smart's case, it was a comment (versus a question) from a fan in a highly charged, competitive game that cause the kid to shove the fan. Both reacted to verbal interaction at the end of a game. One a question from a reporter, the other a comment from a fan, both were athletes in highly charged emotional environments. I really don't see much of any difference in what caused both athletes to react. Certainly, both situations are uniquely different inasmuch as what happened, but both situations are the same inasmuch as both were responding to a non-playing verbal interaction.

[xu82]

I get that he had to be suspended. OSU has an obligation to make sure they prevent this in the future anyway they can. However, when it comes to what's right and wrong, I have no problem with what Smart did. I know previous posters have mentioned that there are plenty of angry people yelling harsh words at Xavier games, I've undoubtedly been in that group, but there are consequences to actions. There's also a chance that Smart knew the fan is aggressive and was maybe even yelled at by him before.

To me, this isn't about a fan yelling at a player and a player pushing a fan. It's about a person yelling at another person and the second person standing up for himself, or better yet, a 50-something year old man yelling at a 19 year old student athlete. Comparing this to the Malice in the Palace is absurd. First things first, this isn't the NBA, and Smart is not receiving financial benefit for having that fan in the arena. Although the fan paid to be there, Smart is not benefiting from that ticket sale, so the customer-entertainer relationship/code of conduct is not there. This point is also furthered by the fact that Smart is probably bitter that he forewent the NBA Draft and is having a disappointing season at the cost of millions of dollars. Secondly, he didn't beat him up like Artest did to fans in the Palace, he just shoved him in response to harsh words, quickly moving away after the fact. I think any of us would expect the same reaction if we called someone else a piece of crap.

Some are saying that Smart overreacted and let his emotions get the best of him by pushing him, but did the fan not do the same thing by yelling at him?

Sorry, but I have to disagree. First, he IS benefiting from the fan buying a ticket because he's getting free tuition, room and board. A college education has value. Second, and more importantly, he hurt his team by lacking control of his emotions. It doesn't matter what the fan said - you have to be above it. I would NEVER allow my kids to exhibit that type of behavior. People learn that you can be taunted into stupidity and it will never stop. I hope he sincerely regrets his weak moment and the fan gets his share grief over this as well.

[xu82]

And if he's bitter, who's fault it that? He's got to grow up and be a man. Hopefully he's learned from this and goes on to great things.

[Kahns Krazy]

No we don't. I don't think that it does.

Fair enough. I probably mixed some other comments in this thread in my mind with yours.

Being an asshole in life is sadly one of those things that you just get away with, because rules have to be drawn somewhere. No matter where you draw those lines, assholes will be right there to push right up to the limit, sucker someone into retaliating and then go crying to the ref.

The nice thing about being an organization of non assholes is that you can exclude assholes. It sounds like in this case, Texas Tech decided that it wanted to exclude this particular asshole going forward, but really enjoys spending this asshole's money, so they let him do it on his terms.

It's a fine line we draw when it comes to sports. When someone gets fired at my office, we don't line the hallways and chant "na-na-na-na, na-na-na-na, hey-hey-hey, goodbye" on their way out, but at a basketball game it's perfectly acceptable when someone fouls out. We talk about home court advantage, and our ability as fans to influence the atmosphere. I just don't know where to draw the line between rabid fan and asshole.

[NY44]

Sorry, but I have to disagree. First, he IS benefiting from the fan buying a ticket because he's getting free tuition, room and board. A college education has value.

To say he is benefiting from a fan buying a ticket at a Texas Tech home game is a stretch. Even if he is, it's certainly not enough to accept unwarranted insults from a stranger.


It doesn't matter what the fan said - you have to be above it. I would NEVER allow my kids to exhibit that type of behavior. People learn that you can be taunted into stupidity and it will never stop. I hope he sincerely regrets his weak moment and the fan gets his share grief over this as well.

And how would you feel about your kids being berated when they're 19 and just trying to earn an education? As you pointed out, the education has great value and you'd be hard pressed to find a better example of a student-athlete who must understand that more than Smart.


And if he's bitter, who's fault it that? He's got to grow up and be a man. Hopefully he's learned from this and goes on to great things.

It's no one's fault, but I can understand it.

I agree that it was immature and he needs to be a man, but he's not a man, he's 19, and just because he plays D1 college basketball doesn't mean he's not still a kid.

[vee4xu]

Big mouths many times find themselves in tense situations that verge on them getting punched. Sometimes people just shrug walk away. Sometimes they shove the big mouth and walk away. Sometimes they shoot them. Sometimes they get laughed at and called a big mouth. No matter what, the big mouth is the flash point that causes the reaction. That guy (who had a really bad hairdo) was the flashpoint and Smart chose to give him a shove. My experience with big mouths is that when people retaliate against them they go into victim mode with, "I didn't mean anything, that guy didn't have to punch me/kick my ass/burn my car, whatever. When people walk away or ignore them, they are emboldened and just keep piling it on. Then either the person getting an earful will continue to walk away, or punch the guy, kick his ass or burn his car. Bottom line: the big mouth usually deserves what he gets, even if it means someone else acting badly. It doesn't justify it, but I usually don't have empathy for the big mouth. In this case, Smart would be better to have ignored the big mouth, but he didn't. So he pays the price. However, I have no empathy for the big mouth fan. BTW, I don't know the lady who was standing next to the big mouth at that game, but she seemed incredulous when Smart shoved big mouth and starting pointing to Smart as if he killed Mr. big mouth.

[LadyMuskie]

It's not acceptable for fans to act like assholes and provoke players, no one has said this is ok. It is also not acceptable for players to respond to provocation.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

Even though the "2 wrongs don't make a right' part of this reminds me of something my said over and over again, this pretty much sums it up. They both acted like babies and they both look bad as a result.

That said, Smart was wrong to physically retaliate, and must face those consequences, but since Orr seems like one of the world's worst kind of college basketball fans, he got what was coming to him as well. Maybe he'll think twice before spouting off at the mouth like a toddler from now on. If nothing else, this incident opens up the dialogue about what is and is not acceptable for so-called adult fans to do at a college sporting event.

[Juice]

Sorry, but I have to disagree. First, he IS benefiting from the fan buying a ticket because he's getting free tuition, room and board. A college education has value. Second, and more importantly, he hurt his team by lacking control of his emotions. It doesn't matter what the fan said - you have to be above it. I would NEVER allow my kids to exhibit that type of behavior. People learn that you can be taunted into stupidity and it will never stop. I hope he sincerely regrets his weak moment and the fan gets his share grief over this as well.

So a fan of a different college is somehow paying his tuition? These college players certainly don't owe shit to the fans of opposing fan bases. Was what Smart did acceptable? No. But in no way should his actions conform to please fans of another fan base.

[paulxu]

I just don't know where to draw the line between rabid fan and asshole.

Snipe and Burrcat.

[NY44]

BTW, I don't know the lady who was standing next to the big mouth at that game, but she seemed incredulous when Smart shoved big mouth and starting pointing to Smart as if he killed Mr. big mouth.

1357

[Juice]

1357

She seems like the type of woman who met with the principal a lot because her son was getting bullied.

[LadyMuskie]

Snipe and Burrcat.

Paul is on fire tonight, folks!

[xu82]

So a fan of a different college is somehow paying his tuition? These college players certainly don't owe shit to the fans of opposing fan bases. Was what Smart did acceptable? No. But in no way should his actions conform to please fans of another fan base.

No, the system pays for his education. I certainly agree he shouldn't have to put up with A-holes. Fans can't cross the line and if they do they should be punished appropriately (ejection, loss of season tickets, arrest, whatever is appropriate). The players also can't cross the line. He did himself no favors and he hurt his team. I don't want him to do the right thing to make that jerk happy, I want him to do it because it's the best thing for him and his team. I get that they're young, but these kids have been around. He didn't punch him or prolong the stupidity, but I'm sure he immediately knew he had made a mistake. It's emotional and it happens fast. Almost as much as the jerk himself, what appeared to be his wife in the stands immediately pointing at Smart bothered me. That showed some crazy mindset I just don't get. It's unfortunate all around.

[xu82]

Paul is on fire tonight, folks!

Yes, Paul is on a roll!!!

[xu82]

Wow, didn't see the "pointer" before my last post. I t bothers me even more now!

[Juice]

No, the system pays for his education. I certainly agree he shouldn't have to put up with A-holes. Fans can't cross the line and if they do they should be punished appropriately (ejection, loss of season tickets, arrest, whatever is appropriate). The players also can't cross the line. He did himself no favors and he hurt his team. I don't want him to do the right thing to make that jerk happy, I want him to do it because it's the best thing for him and his team. I get that they're young, but these kids have been around. He didn't punch him or prolong the stupidity, but I'm sure he immediately knew he had made a mistake. It's emotional and it happens fast. Almost as much as the jerk himself, what appeared to be his wife in the stands immediately pointing at Smart bothered me. That showed some crazy mindset I just don't get. It's unfortunate all around.

The connection between an opposing fan and how his education is funded is pretty long and indirect.

[xu82]

The connection between an opposing fan and how his education is funded is pretty long and indirect.

Maybe I didn't explain myself well. He represents his school, himself and his family. The fan appeared to be a jerk. Life is full of jerks. It's disappointing that it all unfolded the way it did. I don't give the fan a pass. Nor will I give the player a pass. I'm not trying to connect the jerks $70+/- seat directly with Smart's tuition. I would be very disappointed if my son behaved in that manner (and sadly I had some similar experiences, albeit at the high school level - one talented but then- angry son resulted in changing the rule that you could't foul out of a summer league game - almost funny now, but not quite yet) . You seem to agree he made an error in judgement in the heat of the moment. I recognize the fan was a jerk. What, exactly, do we disagree on?

[gladdenguy]

I don't believe for a second this Jeff Orr POS called Smart "a piece of crap". I think he dropped at least an N-bomb. Hopefully this guy gets his a$$ kicked or he is not wealthy enough or powerful enough to not get reprimanded in his place of work. What an embarrassment this fat garbage pal is. Marcus Smart will learn and go on and make millions of dollars. He is also a 19-year old kid in a heated emotional basketball game. This waste of life Orr looks to be over 40 years old.
Serve your time Marcus and use this as motivation.

As for Burrcats.....that punk thug haymaker thrower who weighs upwards of 325 now is a piece of dung much like yourself. I don't care if the Kittens never come to Cintas again......just make sure that punk ass thug former player or yourself doesn't enter Cintas again. Xavier will make sure it doesn't enter that dump of an arena downtown for another ass whooping. Xavier would rather win 13 of 19 on campus.

[xu82]

I don't know what the jerk said and based on the video, I suspect it wasn't "high class". I hate to beat this horse to death, but it doesn't matter what he guy said. It doesn't matter how horrible it might have been. What he says is a (horrible) reflection on him. I would want my player/son to be able to walk away and take it for what it was... the words of a fool. Are we adults here? Am I missing something? I hope Smart goes on to a long and fruitful career. I hope the jerk fan grows up.

[vee4xu]

I don't know what the jerk said and based on the video, I suspect it wasn't "high class". I hate to beat this horse to death, but it doesn't matter what he guy said. It doesn't matter how horrible it might have been. What he says is a (horrible) reflection on him. I would want my player/son to be able to walk away and take it for what it was... the words of a fool. Are we adults here? Am I missing something? I hope Smart goes on to a long and fruitful career. I hope the jerk fan grows up.

I have two sons, ages 27 and 25. They played sports along the way and whether as coach or as dad, I stressed sportsmanship to them. It is what one hopes for at all times. But, sometimes in the high heat of competitive battle, the best intentions are overrun by the heat of the moment. It's called being human. No one is perfect and there are times in all of our lives that don't make us proud. That was true both for Mr. Big Mouth and Marcus Smart. Both were not at there most shining moments when that event happened.

You're not missing anything, 82 with feeling that we are all adults and should act as such. What you have to remember, I think, is that none of us are perfect and when passion intersects with a highly charged situation, perfection is a super high standard to hold onto.

[xu82]

I have two sons, ages 27 and 25. They played sports along the way and whether as coach or as dad, I stressed sportsmanship to them. It is what one hopes for at all times. But, sometimes in the high heat of competitive battle, the best intentions are overrun by the heat of the moment. It's called being human. No one is perfect and there are times in all of our lives that don't make us proud. That was true both for Mr. Big Mouth and Marcus Smart. Both were not at there most shining moments when that event happened.

You're not missing anything, 82 with feeling that we are all adults and should act as such. What you have to remember, I think, is that none of us are perfect and when passion intersects with a highly charged situation, perfection is a super high standard to hold onto.

Uh, again, I agree completely. What we hope for and what we get are not always the same. I am certainly not condemning anyone. We all make mistakes. I just wish it had gone differently. I bet Smart does too. It wasn't child molestation, it was a knee jerk reaction. It's sad that it turned into a big deal. I'm curious why people keep thinking I am opposed to their point of view when we seem to agree. It's unfortunate. A moment of bad judgment. In the heat of the moment. No one died. The fan was the instigator. It was a poor decision to shove him, but life will move on. He's talking his medicine, I hope the "fan" has some consequences as well. If I ever insinuated I am perfect, well, I was lying! So, how do we disagree? But I wish it hadn't happened. Don't you?

[LadyMuskie]

I think there is a case to be made here questioning why we're expecting a 19 year old college kid to rise above when we can't expect the same from a 50 year old man. I don't think either was in the right, and both made really bad choices. That said, why does the 50 year old get a pass and the 19 year old doesn't? Because the 50 year old used words instead of hands? Verbal assault/verbal abuse is a thing. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

Maybe Marcus Smart should have known better. I know Jeff Orr should have. He's had a lot longer time on this earth to get his shit together than Smart has. Either way, antagonizing college basketball players is a sad way to live life.

[GoMuskies]

antagonizing college basketball players is a sad way to live life.

I lived a sad life in the front row at the Gardens from '94-'98.

[LadyMuskie]

Were you 50? I antagonized college basketball players from 97-01. But, even now, at 34 I've moved on when I attend games. By 50, if you still have to get your jollies from trying to make college kids feel bad about themselves and their choices, you need to get a life.

[vee4xu]

Uh, again, I agree completely. What we hope for and what we get are not always the same. I am certainly not condemning anyone. We all make mistakes. I just wish it had gone differently. I bet Smart does too. It wasn't child molestation, it was a knee jerk reaction. It's sad that it turned into a big deal. I'm curious why people keep thinking I am opposed to their point of view when we seem to agree. It's unfortunate. A moment of bad judgment. In the heat of the moment. No one died. The fan was the instigator. It was a poor decision to shove him, but life will move on. He's talking his medicine, I hope the "fan" has some consequences as well. If I ever insinuated I am perfect, well, I was lying! So, how do we disagree? But I wish it hadn't happened. Don't you?

We don't disagree my friend. Actually, my intent was trying to walk you though it from my eyes and help you along. I absolutely agree with you about wishing it never happened. But, it did and now we are all here on this board, in this thread trying to make sense of it. That may be impossible because the whole event was senseless.

[GoMuskies]

By 50, if you still have to get your jollies from trying to make college kids feel bad about themselves and their choices, you need to get a life.

That I agree with. I'm obviously not to 50 yet, but now I'm too busy drinking beer and making sure my boys have enough food to keep them occupied.

[xu82]

Again, I hope no one thinks I believe the jackass in the stands gets a pass. If you do, please go back and read more carefully. I would be fine with banning him from the arena if the facts warrant it. I say no one gets a free pass. Everyone is responsible for their actions. A young kid with a heat of the moment quick shove isn't the end of the world. I don't know what the jerk in the stands had to say, but he should be held accountable too. The whole thing was unfortunate, but it seems to be getting blown up into "the brawl" proportions. No punches thrown. No open wounds. They finished the game. I think we all agree the fan was a jerk, and a player can't shove a fan. I am almost certain the player regrets the incident. I am skeptical about whether the fan regrets it or revels in it. The whole thing is unfortunate. Live and learn.

[xubrew]

Whenever I hear or read "It doesn't matter what the fan did," it's like nails on a chalkboard.

If people mean that Marcus Smart should be punished despite what the fan did, then I agree. But, you can't say what the fan did doesn't matter.

This might not be the best analogy, but I'll try it anyway. Two guys in a bar get into an argument. One guy gets mad and tells the other guy to get out of his face. Instead of getting out of his face, the other guy gets further in his face and starts screaming for him to go screw his mother and suck a donkey and all that good stuff. The guy then pushes him and/or decks him.

Shouldn't they both be thrown out??

It seems kind of stupid to just throw the guy out who threw the punch and say "well, it doesn't matter what the other guy did. He can stay. Especially if he shows up every night and does the same thing night after night after night. That's kind of like what these asshole fans are like.

Smart never should have pushed him. He should be in trouble. In fact, I think he should be in a little more trouble. My issue isn't that Smart got in trouble. My issue is that the fan didn't, and thousands others like him don't. They just keep coming back and acting like complete assholes over and over and over again, and then when something FINALLY happens to them, people say "well, it doesn't matter what he said."

The fan should have been thrown out too, but he wasn't. He probably should have been thrown out years ago, but he wasn't. I don't know why people don't think that what he did matters.

[NY44]

Wow, didn't see the "pointer" before my last post. I t bothers me even more now!

I completely agree. The point might be the most outrageous part actually. It perfectly shows a horrible mindset that you can say whatever you want in the stands and the players just have to take it.

Him being a grown man is essential to my view. I'm not sure how I would feel if Smart pushed a student.

[floorsweeper]

"If I'm a fan and heard that I would have went after him."

Oh yeah, Xavier fans are the classiest around. You would never see an X fan drunk, dropping F-Bombs, and looking for a fight.

[floorsweeper]

"Him being a grown man is essential to my view. I'm not sure how I would feel if Smart pushed a student."

Really....................Students aren't adults ? Is Marcus Smart an adult ? Thanks for the dumbest commentary of 2014.

[floorsweeper]

"If people mean that Marcus Smart should be punished despite what the fan did, then I agree."


Of course, if a Xavier player jumps on the scorers table and rips off his jersey while yelling at the crowd, and receives no punishment from Chris Mack that's okay as well.

[NY44]

"If I'm a fan and heard that I would have went after him."

Oh yeah, Xavier fans are the classiest around. You would never see an X fan drunk, dropping F-Bombs, and looking for a fight.

I think it's hilarious that you took the time to go back and edit this post.


"Him being a grown man is essential to my view. I'm not sure how I would feel if Smart pushed a student."

Really....................Students aren't adults ? Is Marcus Smart an adult ? Thanks for the dumbest commentary of 2014.

I don't think so and if you do they're definitely not as mature as the fan is.

[floorsweeper]

"I think it's hilarious that you took the time to go back and edit this post. "

Yeah I accidentally left out the word "fans". Thanks for another brilliant observation.

[ammtd34]

"I think it's hilarious that you took the time to go back and edit this post. "

Yeah I accidentally left out the word "fans". Thanks for another brilliant observation.

Well, that and another entire sentence.

[XUFan09]

If a troll makes a post and no one responds to it, is he really there? Something to consider, guys.

[xu82]

If a troll makes a post and no one responds to it, is he really there? Something to consider, guys.

Deafening silence is the best result possible.... then eventually let them fade away. In the meantime, I learned how to use the ignore feature.

[RealDeal]

Floorsweeper is back, and he's still too stupid to use the "reply with quote" button. Hang with em.

[GoMuskies]

I learned how to use the ignore feature.

Unfortunately, too many have not learned NOT to use the reply with quote button with the trolls.

[NY44]

I added him to my list. I still see him though.

If Marcus Smart shoved him because of these posts I would totally be cool with it.

[Cheesehead]

"If people mean that Marcus Smart should be punished despite what the fan did, then I agree."


Of course, if a Xavier player jumps on the scorers table and rips off his jersey while yelling at the crowd, and receives no punishment from Chris Mack that's okay as well.

Matt Howard should have been thrown out of countless games for his illegal elbows and take downs. He made Bruce Bowen look saintly.

[Milhouse]

If a troll makes a post and no one responds to it, is he really there? Something to consider, guys.

Kind of like if Butler loses a home game and no one is there....did it really happen?

[nuts4xu]

Of course, if a Xavier player jumps on the scorers table and rips off his jersey while yelling at the crowd, and receives no punishment from Chris Mack that's okay as well.

I don't know about all that, but I do find it perfectly okay to rip down a faulty water fountain outside our lockerroom if we get jobbed by the refs at some airplane hanger like arena we may play in.

[Kahns Krazy]

I think there is a case to be made here questioning why we're expecting a 19 year old college kid to rise above when we can't expect the same from a 50 year old man. I don't think either was in the right, and both made really bad choices. That said, why does the 50 year old get a pass and the 19 year old doesn't? Because the 50 year old used words instead of hands? Verbal assault/verbal abuse is a thing. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

Maybe Marcus Smart should have known better. I know Jeff Orr should have. He's had a lot longer time on this earth to get his shit together than Smart has. Either way, antagonizing college basketball players is a sad way to live life.

1) I do expect more from Smart than from a 50 year old fat tub of obnoxious goo. Do you really not expect more of our players? College basketball players are in a position of privilege and representation of the university name and image. I hold them to a higher standard than I do 50 year old morons, or other 19 year old students.

2) Smart has more to lose. He has a career ahead of him he needs to consider. Orr is already a bottom feeder. I don't care if he wants to continue to be an asswipe for the rest of his life. No skin off my back. I just walk away from guys like that.

3) Hands are different than words. That is a fact of society and a fact of law. Smart needs to learn that.

[paulxu]

I don't know about all that, but I do find it perfectly okay to rip down a faulty water fountain outside our lockerroom if we get jobbed by the refs at some airplane hanger like arena we may play in.

Plus they're in the big boy league now...they should have a working clock. One can hope.

[bleedXblue]

1) I do expect more from Smart than from a 50 year old fat tub of obnoxious goo. Do you really not expect more of our players? College basketball players are in a position of privilege and representation of the university name and image. I hold them to a higher standard than I do 50 year old morons, or other 19 year old students.

2) Smart has more to lose. He has a career ahead of him he needs to consider. Orr is already a bottom feeder. I don't care if he wants to continue to be an asswipe for the rest of his life. No skin off my back. I just walk away from guys like that.

3) Hands are different than words. That is a fact of society and a fact of law. Smart needs to learn that.

And those 19-20-21 year olds are human. They make mistakes. Did we not learn anything from what Xavier went through?

[GoMuskies]

And those 19-20-21 year olds are human. They make mistakes. Did we not learn anything from what Xavier went through?

Yes, they're human and they make mistakes. Isn't that what everyone has said about Smart? He made a mistake? What were we supposed to learn from what Xavier went though?

Seems to me that we should have learned that it is human to err and that there are consequences for said errors.

[chico]

Speaking of whether he's a man:

It's too bad Smart doesn't play football at OSU because I'd love to see Mike Gundy 2.0.