RPI Thread

[Muskie]

The official RPI of the NCAA debuted on Friday: 1-10-14

Villanova #6
Xavier #19
Creighton #26
Georgetown #54
St. John's #56
Providence #68
Butler #81
Marquette #102
DePaul #111
Seton Hall #129

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

Er . . .

I'd put Creighton a little higher.

[GoMuskies]

Er . . .

I'd put Creighton a little higher.

Yes, but it's RPI, which means it's kind of silly anyway. Sagarin Predictor has Creighton #13 and Xavier #38 rating Creighton 5 points better than Xavier on a neutral floor. That makes much more sense obviously.

[nuts4xu]

Er . . .

I'd put Creighton a little higher.

You can't "put" anyone higher in the RPI. There is a formula and you are what you are, this isn't the AP top 25 rankings Mel.

[Muskie]

Here's the formula if anyone cares:

The current and commonly used formula for determining the RPI of a college basketball team at any given time is as follows.
RPI = (WP * 0.25) + (OWP * 0.50) + (OOWP * 0.25)
where WP is Winning Percentage, OWP is Opponents' Winning Percentage and OOWP is Opponents' Opponents' Winning Percentage.
The WP is calculated by taking a team's wins divided by the number of games it has played (i.e. wins plus losses).

[paulxu]

Creighton and X should just about flip-flop from that 1/10 list if they published one today.

[XUFan09]

Here's the formula if anyone cares:

The current and commonly used formula for determining the RPI of a college basketball team at any given time is as follows.
RPI = (WP * 0.25) + (OWP * 0.50) + (OOWP * 0.25)
where WP is Winning Percentage, OWP is Opponents' Winning Percentage and OOWP is Opponents' Opponents' Winning Percentage.
The WP is calculated by taking a team's wins divided by the number of games it has played (i.e. wins plus losses).

And wins and losses have different values. A home win is worth 0.6 while a road win is worth 1.4 toward the total wins. A home loss is worth 1.4 while a road loss is worth 0.6. Neutral wins and losses are a 1 to 1 ratio.

So, Xavier's RPI record is actually 8.6-3.6.

[X-man]

Here's the formula if anyone cares:

The current and commonly used formula for determining the RPI of a college basketball team at any given time is as follows.
RPI = (WP * 0.25) + (OWP * 0.50) + (OOWP * 0.25)
where WP is Winning Percentage, OWP is Opponents' Winning Percentage and OOWP is Opponents' Opponents' Winning Percentage.
The WP is calculated by taking a team's wins divided by the number of games it has played (i.e. wins plus losses).

That is actually the old RPI formula, one that was tweaked when people decided where the game is played is also important. The new formula modifies the weights on that basis.

[gladdenguy]

www.live-rpi.com

[Muskie]

That is actually the old RPI formula, one that was tweaked when people decided where the game is played is also important. The new formula modifies the weights on that basis.
DO you know where I can find that formula? The above one I posted is the only one I can find.

[paulxu]

New NCAA RPI today:

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-rpi

[XU '11]

DO you know where I can find that formula? The above one I posted is the only one I can find.

This article is about baseball, but mentions the 1.4 - 0.6 adjustment for basketball.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/baseball/2011-08-03/rpi-formula-altering-2013-season

Full explanation on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rating_Percentage_Index

[UCGRAD4X]

This article is about baseball, but mentions the 1.4 - 0.6 adjustment for basketball.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/baseball/2011-08-03/rpi-formula-altering-2013-season

Full explanation on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rating_Percentage_Index

Well, there you go then.

[X Factor]

Rpi - 21

sos - 11

[Cheesehead]

Rpi - 21

sos - 11

Wow and UC is the locally ranked team?

[X Factor]

Updated:

RPI - 18

SOS - 9

[Xavier]

Where are you finding those numbers?

Scratch that, I should try reading thread first.

[bleedXblue]

There are just too many "RPI" polls. I don't know which one to follow and quite honestly I really don't think at this point it's a good idea. Just keep winning . Two big road games for this team coming up. Pocket a couple W's and this team will have put themselves in a great position for the balance of the year.

[Masterofreality]

There are just too many "RPI" polls. I don't know which one to follow and quite honestly I really don't think at this point it's a good idea. Just keep winning . Two big road games for this team coming up. Pocket a couple W's and this team will have put themselves in a great position for the balance of the year.

This, just win baby and everything takes care of itself.

[BMoreX]

Mario tweeted that SOS is at 9.

[waggy]

RPI numbers are great an all, except that they may or may not be accurate. Has X really played the 9th toughest schedule? Are they really the 18th best team?

[drudy23]

RPI numbers are great an all, except that they may or may not be accurate. Has X really played the 9th toughest schedule? Are they really the 18th best team?

1) Why wouldnt they be accurate?
2) The RPI's purpose isn't designed to list the "best" teams...it's one of many criteria to help determine who deserves to be in the NCAA tournament field

It's not the be all end all for selecting teams...it's one of MANY factors the committee looks at in selecting teams.

[waggy]

Not sure what you're trying to say. First you try to defend it, and then say it's not designed to rank the teams...

Look, we both understand what the RPI is and does. When Mario starts tweeting numbers... I don't know.

[drudy23]

I never said it wasn't designed to ranks teams...I said it wasn't designed to pick the "best" teams. It does rank teams...based on its formula. Doesn't mean they are the best teams. And how is getting a calculation right me defending it? The calculation is the calculation...has nothing to do with anyone's defense of it. Why would we assume it's wrong?

[waggy]

We (or at least I) would assume it's wrong when is says "9", and you've played all of two friggin road games.

[jdm2000]

I'm don't know whether the strength of schedule takes into account the "where" of the games that have been played (it may well), but if you're talking about the "who" of games that are played, a lineup of Tennesse (2x), UC, Wake, Iowa, at Bama, Georgetown, Creighton, etc. is a pretty strong lineup of games.

[waggy]

I think when the vamped the RPI to account for game location, they did not do the same for the SOS calc.

[blueblob06]

I'm don't know whether the strength of schedule takes into account the "where" of the games that have been played (it may well), but if you're talking about the "who" of games that are played, a lineup of Tennesse (2x), UC, Wake, Iowa, at Bama, Georgetown, Creighton, etc. is a pretty strong lineup of games.
Agreed! Live-Rpi.com list X's SOS as 7th! Wow.

And all but 1 Big East team is in the top 100 RPI. Seton Hall is at 140, not bad at all.

[muskiefan82]

Agreed! Live-Rpi.com list X's SOS as 7th! Wow.

And all but 1 Big East team is in the top 100 RPI. Seton Hall is at 140, not bad at all.

This is not the A-10. Bottom feeders are better here. Which brings another question. When will the logo of the court on the main page be changed to show Big East instead of the A-10?

[Burrcats]

Agreed! Live-Rpi.com list X's SOS as 7th! Wow.

And all but 1 Big East team is in the top 100 RPI. Seton Hall is at 140, not bad at all.

Xavier scheduled amazingly well this season. Looking at the OOC, Xavier has not played a team that's expected RPI is worse than 245.

Also, the Big East as a whole did a great job of scheduling the OOC, traditionally (at least the past few years) schools like DePaul, Seton Hall and St. Johns each had a horrible non-conference SOS. However this year only Seton Hall has played a bad non-league schedule. I do not think the disparity between the Big East and AAC is that big (currently no. 4 vs no. 8) but the American schools had really bad non-league schedules...which is why it appears so bad.

[xubrew]

I think when the vamped the RPI to account for game location, they did not do the same for the SOS calc.

It doesn't. it's just 2/3rds your OWP and 1/3rd your OOWP.

I also suspect that the committee values OOC SOS more than they value overall SOS. The reason I think this is that when you go back and look at the bubble over the past few years and look at who got in and who didn't, they seem to greatly favor teams who scheduled tough out of conference.

[drudy23]

Xavier scheduled amazingly well this season. Looking at the OOC, Xavier has not played a team that's expected RPI is worse than 245.

Also, the Big East as a whole did a great job of scheduling the OOC, traditionally (at least the past few years) schools like DePaul, Seton Hall and St. Johns each had a horrible non-conference SOS. However this year only Seton Hall has played a bad non-league schedule. I do not think the disparity between the Big East and AAC is that big (currently no. 4 vs no. 8) but the American schools had really bad non-league schedules...which is why it appears so bad.

Xavier has mastered the OOC scheduling the past 10 years...I'm guessing many ADs picked Bobo's brain on his scheduling philosophy as part of our move to the Big East.

UC, on the other hand, has not mastered this skill...they are sitting on a decade of dominace in that conference if they change their ways.

[xubrew]

I actually think the past two years the OOC schedule has been its weakest since the pre-Matta era.

This was our OOC schedule from two years ago: Georgia, Vandy, Purdue, Butler, Cincinnati, Oral Roberts (first team out of the NCAAs), Long Beach State (who would have gotten an at-large. This was when they had Casper Ware), Gonzaga, Memphis. That's nine games against teams that were either in the NCAAs, or expected to be very good.

That was a typical schedule.

Our schedule wasn't bad this year, but it wasn't nearly as tough as it typically was prior to last season. Not even close. I don't know what the overall SOS was, but we used to play a lot more OOC games against good teams.

[waggy]

If you're going to talk about a SOS ranking, you first have to agree on what is a good one.

There are lots of guys ranking teams, but not nearly as many doing SOS. And of those that are, the official NCAA SOS one is the likely the worse.

[XU '11]

Xavier scheduled amazingly well this season. Looking at the OOC, Xavier has not played a team that's expected RPI is worse than 245.

Also, the Big East as a whole did a great job of scheduling the OOC, traditionally (at least the past few years) schools like DePaul, Seton Hall and St. Johns each had a horrible non-conference SOS. However this year only Seton Hall has played a bad non-league schedule. I do not think the disparity between the Big East and AAC is that big (currently no. 4 vs no. 8) but the American schools had really bad non-league schedules...which is why it appears so bad.

No, the reason the difference is that big is because the worst team in the Big East (#125 DePaul) would be the 6th best team in the AAC (#136 Temple, #138 Houston, #165 UCF, #180 USF, #190 Rutgers).

When you average the whole conference, those schools will drop you like a rock.

[muskiefan82]

No, the reason the difference is that big is because the worst team in the Big East (#125 DePaul) would be the 6th best team in the AAC (#136 Temple, #138 Houston, #165 UCF, #180 USF, #190 Rutgers).

When you average the whole conference, those schools will drop you like a rock.

Welcome to the A-10, Cincinnati. Oops, I mean the ACK. Oops again. The AAC. Those bottom feeders will get ya! Better schedule better in the non-con.

[bleedXblue]

Its amazing how the conference thing has done a complete 180 with X and UC.

Just wait until they drop a game on the road to a 150 RPI team or higher (and they will). Their RPI will drop like a rock.

Can you hear him whining already?

[XUFan09]

One important thing to realize about RPI and SOS: They're designed to be accurate at the end of the season, not right now. Xavier, projected by Sagarin Ratings:

RPI 34
OOC SOS 59
SOS 24

I agree with Brew that OOC SOS probably matters more than overall SOS. The Committee was pretty explicit about the fact that OOC SOS was easily one of the most important metrics in distinguishing bubble teams.

[Burrcats]

No, the reason the difference is that big is because the worst team in the Big East (#125 DePaul) would be the 6th best team in the AAC (#136 Temple, #138 Houston, #165 UCF, #180 USF, #190 Rutgers).

When you average the whole conference, those schools will drop you like a rock.

True. There is definitely a huge drop off from top 5 and bottom 5 in the league. It is weird to not be playing an NCAA caliber team every week (something Cincinnati did in all but one week last year during conference play).

[Burrcats]

Its amazing how the conference thing has done a complete 180 with X and UC.

Just wait until they drop a game on the road to a 150 RPI team or higher (and they will). Their RPI will drop like a rock.

Can you hear him whining already?

Meh. The Big East is projected to get 4 teams in and the AAC is projected to get 5 teams in. The leagues are basically the same at the top...

[GoMuskies]

Until Louisville leaves. Next year the AAC will not be good.

[Burrcats]

Until Louisville leaves. Next year the AAC will not be good.

While I definitely agree with you, they currently have the lowest RPI of the 5...

[GoMuskies]

Who all is coming in next year? Just Tulane and Tulsa?

[bleedXblue]

They will have a nice top 4 teams in the league still. UConn, UC, Memphis and Temple are usually pretty solid. Now, the rest of the league is way behind and is going drag the league down.

Let us all remember that we were in a league like this for almost 20 years........lets not get all high and mighty.

[GoMuskies]

Temple is bad right now, though. Not sure if they'll be back next year. Larry Brown might have a good team at SMU one year before he quits. I guess SMU's actually pretty good right now. About time for Larry to leave then.

[The_Mack_Pack]

SMU will be pretty good next season, probably will be picked to win the league. UC, UConn, and Memphis all lose a ton. Only SMU has a top 25 recruiting class in that conference for next season whereas the BE has 5 in the top 21 according to Scout.

[Burrcats]

Who all is coming in next year? Just Tulane and Tulsa?

ECU is also coming in next year. The AAC will be an 11 team all-sports league. Interesting how the scheduling will work, I'd guess for TV inventory they'll have UConn/Memphis/Cincinnati all play twice.

SMU will probably be picked to win the league next year, they are bringing a top 5 recruit to go with a team that will bring back all their main guys next year. I think Dunphy is a good coach, just Temple has zero depth this year, so they should be back around decent next year. The main problem is the huge gap between UC, UConn, Memphis, SMU and Temple with the rest of the league. It will be somewhere between the SEC and A10, probably consistently the 5th or 6th best league (top 5: B1G, ACC, Big 12, Pac12, Big East).

[xavierj]

The AAC is the 8th rated conference this year. Half of the league has RPI's over 150. The RPI is weird, I don't know how UC has such a high RPI. I guess the wins against Pitt and Memphis have really boosted them. Of their 16 wins, 9 are against teams with RPI's over 150 and 4 of those wins were against teams with RPI's over 270. They have 13 games left and 7 of those teams have an RPI over 150. Xavier on the other hand has only played 5 games against teams with an RPI over 150 and only have 2 more games against a team with higher than a 100 RPI. I think the AAC will probably get 4 teams in, I don't see SMU, they have 2 top 100 wins, UCONN and Wyoming. Not exactly a strong resume.

[xudash]

ECU is also coming in next year. The AAC will be an 11 team all-sports league. Interesting how the scheduling will work, I'd guess for TV inventory they'll have UConn/Memphis/Cincinnati all play twice.

SMU will probably be picked to win the league next year, they are bringing a top 5 recruit to go with a team that will bring back all their main guys next year. I think Dunphy is a good coach, just Temple has zero depth this year, so they should be back around decent next year. The main problem is the huge gap between UC, UConn, Memphis, SMU and Temple with the rest of the league. It will be somewhere between the SEC and A10, probably consistently the 5th or 6th best league (top 5: B1G, ACC, Big 12, Pac12, Big East).

Saw the current drawings for the new Nippert. Very nice. I frankly don't understand the 40k cap, but it's going to look nice. Congrats.

[xuwin]

Saw the current drawings for the new Nippert. Very nice. I frankly don't understand the 40k cap, but it's going to look nice. Congrats.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to spend 80 million to increase the seating capacity by 5000. Hard to believe that adding luxury boxes is worth that much to them. They won't get big time programs to play here with that kind of seating capacity.

[xuwin]

Saw the current drawings for the new Nippert. Very nice. I frankly don't understand the 40k cap, but it's going to look nice. Congrats.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to spend 80 million to increase the seating capacity by 5000. Hard to believe that adding luxury boxes is worth that much to them. They won't get big time programs to play here with that kind of seating capacity.

[bleedXblue]

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to spend 80 million to increase the seating capacity by 5000. Hard to believe that adding luxury boxes is worth that much to them. They won't get big time programs to play here with that kind of seating capacity.

Well the AAC is not big time, so I think they will be fine.

Until the school gets smart and realizes they should be playing in PBS for football and building a new basketball facility, they will never get the invite they really want.

Add to that, the campus could really use the room for more green space and addtional parking for its students.

[Milhouse]

I would say the top of both leagues is good. Comparable though?

I'd take X, Creighton, and Nova over UC, Louisville, and Memphis.

I would honestly take X over all 3 of them. and We are clearly not as good as Creighton/Nova.

UC struggled immensely last year with Creighton...I can't even imagine what it would be like this year if they played.

[UCGRAD4X]

I would say the top of both leagues is good. Comparable though?

I'd take X, Creighton, and Nova over UC, Louisville, and Memphis.

I would honestly take X over all 3 of them. and We are clearly not as good as Creighton/Nova.

UC struggled immensely last year with Creighton...I can't even imagine what it would be like this year if they played.

I'm not sure how clear that is….let's wait and see. We came back against Creighton at home…lost…but "clearly"?

As long as UC has Nippert - quaint and historic as it is - they will only sporadically experience modest success…if that.

Period.

[ammtd34]

The AAC is the 8th rated conference this year.

Not according to Jay Williams. The other day, he listed the AAC 5th and the Big East 6th. Maybe MOR has a point. Or maybe Williams is just an idiot.

[xudash]

Well the AAC is not big time, so I think they will be fine.

Until the school gets smart and realizes they should be playing in PBS for football and building a new basketball facility, they will never get the invite they really want.

Add to that, the campus could really use the room for more green space and addtional parking for its students.

Good thoughts. That's how Pitt is attempting to work it in the 'burgh. They ripped out their historic bowl years ago and committed the program to Heinz Field. That opened up room on campus for other stuff.

UC's problem now is brutally simple: they're committed. The $80mm train officially left the station this week. I suppose they could stop the construction, but what a mess that would be. The people who ponied up the $80mm for football aren't going to allow UC to keep the money to create a frisbee park with some new tree plantings to go along with a new parking garage.

[paulxu]

Is this sorta like the trolley deal? Spend a lot of money...then stop and use existing stuff?

[bleedXblue]

Good thoughts. That's how Pitt is attempting to work it in the 'burgh. They ripped out their historic bowl years ago and committed the program to Heinz Field. That opened up room on campus for other stuff.

UC's problem now is brutally simple: they're committed. The $80mm train officially left the station this week. I suppose they could stop the construction, but what a mess that would be. The people who ponied up the $80mm for football aren't going to allow UC to keep the money to create a frisbee park with some new tree plantings to go along with a new parking garage.

Agree its too late.

Whoever ponied up the money hoping that this will make them more attractive @ 40,000 seats was foolish.

I'd take the money and build a state of the art center for all indoor sports.

Move football down on the river, just like Mick wanted to do for BBALL. Now that would mean you would have to lock horns with Mike Brown......so then again maybe not a great idea.

[drudy23]

Does moving UC to PBS attract more fans? They can't fill a 35,00 seat stadium, but they can fill a 65,000 seat stadium? Additionally, there's no way you can convince me that 65k start showing up with a move to the Big 12 or the ACC either. Football is a completely different animal...UC being relevant in football in a conference like the Big 12 would take a decade, if they're lucky.

They are stuck in between...they had two years of "right place, right time" with Kelly in a weak conference that got them success in a couple BCS Bowls. They will never be a true blue chip football program...it can't be done, they don't have the resources.

They should have stuck with hoops. They had decades of success under Huggins where they competed with the big boys and had a true national reputation. The two years of football success was the worst thing that could have happened to them, because they abandoned their identity. Think of UC's brand 10 years ago, and it looks nothing like it does now. It used to be raw, and intimidating, and successful...they were noticed.

Nobody really cares about them anymore because they are an afterthought. They did it to themselves thinking they were big time football...they're not.

[nuts4xu]

UC won't get to a BCS bowl from the AAC either. The Big East was great for UC at the time, and allowed their football program to grab some headlines. The addition of Kelly came at the right time, and he left at the wrong time for UC.

For UC to sell out a 40k stadium every game, they would have needed a few more years of sustained success. The luxury boxes they are adding to Nippert will pay for the renovations in due time. They aren't renovating for the extra 5,000 seats, it is the corporate box revenue they were after. Now they just need to ensure none of them go empty for games or seasons at a time.

[bleedXblue]

Does moving UC to PBS attract more fans? They can't fill a 35,00 seat stadium, but they can fill a 65,000 seat stadium? Additionally, there's no way you can convince me that 65k start showing up with a move to the Big 12 or the ACC either. Football is a completely different animal...UC being relevant in football in a conference like the Big 12 would take a decade, if they're lucky.

They are stuck in between...they had two years of "right place, right time" with Kelly in a weak conference that got them success in a couple BCS Bowls. They will never be a true blue chip football program...it can't be done, they don't have the resources.

They should have stuck with hoops. They had decades of success under Huggins where they competed with the big boys and had a true national reputation. The two years of football success was the worst thing that could have happened to them, because they abandoned their identity. Think of UC's brand 10 years ago, and it looks nothing like it does now. It used to be raw, and intimidating, and successful...they were noticed.

Nobody really cares about them anymore because they are an afterthought. They did it to themselves thinking they were big time football...they're not.

But UC is not gonna give up. My only point in moving football to PBS is that the seating capacity should be more attractive to the ACC or Big 12. Im thinking more long term..... 5-10 years down the road. Now, can they get people to show up if the schedule improves and they continue to win? Dont know...they cant seem to figure it out with basketabll either.

Agree that they've lost their identity. I honestly hope they never find it.

[GoMuskies]

UC won't get to a BCS bowl from the AAC either.

Not sure what they're calling "BCS" bowls in the future, but one team from the "other" non-power leagues will get a bid to one of those bowls every year. UC will be in as good a position as anyone to get that bid. But it will be tough trying to be the best of the "other" 60-65 teams to try and grab that bid.

[Burrcats]

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to spend 80 million to increase the seating capacity by 5000. Hard to believe that adding luxury boxes is worth that much to them. They won't get big time programs to play here with that kind of seating capacity.

Cincinnati has signed home-and-homes with Miami (FL), Nebraska, Boise State and BYU for future series. They really seem to be pushing to keep games at Nippert no matter what, unlike the previous AD who was willing to move games to Paul Brown. It worked for the Oklahoma game (crowd was 58k), but not so much for UofL or WVU (40k and 45k respectively). I agree that a school like Oklahoma won't agree to play in Nippert, but UC can get the next tier.

They clearly fleshed out the numbers and they will make more revenue from the new model. Already, sold out most of the suites...

[Burrcats]

But UC is not gonna give up. My only point in moving football to PBS is that the seating capacity should be more attractive to the ACC or Big 12. Im thinking more long term..... 5-10 years down the road. Now, can they get people to show up if the schedule improves and they continue to win? Dont know...they cant seem to figure it out with basketabll either.

Agree that they've lost their identity. I honestly hope they never find it.

The Bengals own all the parking and advertising revenues. I don't even think they'll let UC put their own logos on the turf...

[blueblob06]

Cincinnati has signed home-and-homes with Miami (FL), Nebraska, Boise State and BYU for future series. They really seem to be pushing to keep games at Nippert no matter what, unlike the previous AD who was willing to move games to Paul Brown.

So, are those games gonna be at Nippert? That'd be kinda cool.

[Burrcats]

I would say the top of both leagues is good. Comparable though?

I'd take X, Creighton, and Nova over UC, Louisville, and Memphis.

I would honestly take X over all 3 of them. and We are clearly not as good as Creighton/Nova.

UC struggled immensely last year with Creighton...I can't even imagine what it would be like this year if they played.

Struggled? They lost by 4 and had a three pointer spin in and out down 3 points with 4 seconds left. UC's wasn't very good last year and still held Creighton under 70 points...

[Burrcats]

So, are those games gonna be at Nippert? That'd be kinda cool.

Yeah, all those will be at Nippert. UC is playing at Paul Brown next year while Nippert is renovated.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Don't give two shits about UC's mediocre football program. I just love the fact that after the last 10 years of UC fans talking down the A 10 they're now in a similar type of league. Can't wait to see their fans cry when they get seeded lower then they all think they should be

[jdm2000]

Nipper renovation is not about seating capacity as much as the luxury boxes, press facilities, and simply improving the stuff that makes a game there right now a pain in a lot of ways (concourses, bathrooms, concession areas, etc.).

[Burrcats]

Don't give two shits about UC's mediocre football program. I just love the fact that after the last 10 years of UC fans talking down the A 10 they're now in a similar type of league. Can't wait to see their fans cry when they get seeded lower then they all think they should be

The difference is the American is getting excellent TV coverage under the new TV contract. Every league game is being televised nationally including 3 "Gameday" sites. The A10 never had that good of a TV deal, which for better or worse, shapes the perception of the league. I would prefer that to Fox Sports, when I just read that 41 of their 48 FS1 games registered a 0.0 TV rating.

[Titanxman04]

The difference is the American is getting excellent TV coverage under the new TV contract. Every league game is being televised nationally including 3 "Gameday" sites. The A10 never had that good of a TV deal, which for better or worse, shapes the perception of the league. I would prefer that to Fox Sports, when I just read that 41 of their 48 FS1 games registered a 0.0 TV rating.

Gotta think that FS1 is at a disadvantage from ESPN though. Especially when one of the leagues is a west coast league (PAC-10), and thus you lose a bunch of east coast interest. ESPN is still the household name in sports broadcasting, for better or for worse, and it'll take some time for Fox Sports to compete with them. I even struggle to remember to watch Fox Sports Live, even though I like it better than Sportscenter...except for Gary Peyton's involvement.

[HoyaParanoia]

The difference is the American is getting excellent TV coverage under the new TV contract. Every league game is being televised nationally including 3 "Gameday" sites. The A10 never had that good of a TV deal, which for better or worse, shapes the perception of the league. I would prefer that to Fox Sports, when I just read that 41 of their 48 FS1 games registered a 0.0 TV rating.

As a Georgetown fan who hates this new league and Fox Sports, I would agree.

[HoyaParanoia]

Gotta think that FS1 is at a disadvantage from ESPN though. Especially when one of the leagues is a west coast league (PAC-10), and thus you lose a bunch of east coast interest. ESPN is still the household name in sports broadcasting, for better or for worse, and it'll take some time for Fox Sports to compete with them. I even struggle to remember to watch Fox Sports Live, even though I like it better than Sportscenter...except for Gary Peyton's involvement.

Agreed, Gary Payton and Donovan McNabb are dreadful.

[Muskie1000]

As a Georgetown fan who hates this new league and Fox Sports, I would agree.

So you would have rather stayed in the old Big East and stayed second fiddle to football?

[Smails]

The difference is the American is getting excellent TV coverage under the new TV contract. Every league game is being televised nationally including 3 "Gameday" sites. The A10 never had that good of a TV deal, which for better or worse, shapes the perception of the league. I would prefer that to Fox Sports, when I just read that 41 of their 48 FS1 games registered a 0.0 TV rating.

I think you are confusing the "TV deal" with ratings. The "deal" is what funnels money to the conference and the programs the conference. The BE got a great TV deal from FS1 and I personally like seeing Gus Johnson, Raftery and so on at the Cintas Center compared to Steve Wolf and Brad Johanssen...which now have homes in Clifton. This whole thing is one giant transition taking place at once..new league..new cable sports station..new venues. It's going to take a while for the dust to settle, but something tells me that the BE will be just fine and the TV deals will continue to be lucrative, regardless of where they come from.

I'm not going to argue that the ratings have been anything short of crappy, but the deal is the deal.

[Burrcats]

As a Georgetown fan who hates this new league and Fox Sports, I would agree.

Must be just as weird for you guys in the "new" Big East as for us in the American. How do most Georgetown fans feel? Maybe I am biased, but I really haven't even seen any Big East games other than the occasional OOC games. I feel like I don't really know the strengths of those teams outside of their computer numbers.

[Burrcats]

I think you are confusing the "TV deal" with ratings. The "deal" is what funnels money to the conference and the programs the conference. The BE got a great TV deal from FS1 and I personally like seeing Gus Johnson, Raftery and so on at the Cintas Center compared to Steve Wolf and Brad Johanssen...which now have homes in Clifton. This whole thing is one giant transition taking place at once..new league..new cable sports station..new venues. It's going to take a while for the dust to settle, but something tells me that the BE will be just fine and the TV deals will continue to be lucrative, regardless of where they come from.

I'm not going to argue that the ratings have been anything short of crappy, but the deal is the deal.

I agree. As a fan though, exposure is more important to me than money the university gets. Even in the Big East, we had ESPN3 games with announcers with the quality of Wolf & Jonanssen. Is it really fair to compare the worst announcers on CBSSports to the best FS1 has to offer?

[Milhouse]

TV doesn't really matter to me. They'll only play your replays if you're in the top 25. Everything else is rather moot I'd say.

I can't wait to see what it does for X from a recruiting perspective. A top 10 class in HIS FIRST YEAR in the league? Sky's the limit.

[paulxu]

As a Georgetown fan who hates this new league and Fox Sports, I would agree.


I feel like I don't really know the strengths of those teams outside of their computer numbers.

Here are a couple of numbers you guys should be able to relate to: 64-47 and 80-67. Maybe those numbers will help you "really know the strengths...."

[GoMuskies]

As a Georgetown fan who hates this new league and Fox Sports, I would agree.

Some Georgetown fans are starting to remind me a bit of Charlotte fans when they joined the A-10. They turned up their noses and felt like they were too good to be stuck in the "lowly" A-10 and felt there was no chance to be relevant inationally n the league, and soon enough they weren't even good enough to be a contender in the A-10. Meanwhile, Xavier was going to the Sweet 16 every year. Keep bitching about this league Hoya fans and watch what happens to your program while Xavier once again elevates its program. Best be careful.

[Backyard Champ]

The thing with the AAC that most UC fans fail to recognize? It's only going to get worse. With Louisville leaving, the AAC will be worse than the old A10 and the new A10. It doesn't even compare to this years Big East.

[bobbiemcgee]

As a Georgetown fan who hates this new league and Fox Sports, I would agree.


You can give back your share of the 500 million and try going Indy.

[RealDeal]

I would care a lot more about what hoya fans think if they could half fill their arena.

[xavierj]

Some Georgetown fans are starting to remind me a bit of Charlotte fans when they joined the A-10. They turned up their noses and felt like they were too good to be stuck in the "lowly" A-10 and felt there was no chance to be relevant inationally n the league, and soon enough they weren't even good enough to be a contender in the A-10. Meanwhile, Xavier was going to the Sweet 16 every year. Keep bitching about this league Hoya fans and watch what happens to your program while Xavier once again elevates its program. Best be careful.

I think Hoyaparanoia is just that and he is probably in the minority. I think this new league is the most unique in the country and all of the games have been very intense and exciting. What's not to like? All of the teams actually have something in common and are very similar in vision and goals. Georgetown has nothing in common with big state football schools and to be honest playing with them really wasn't doing anything for them. The new big east is a basketball conference for basketball schools. It's as simple as that. If Georgetown wants to play with football schools with nothing in common good luck. But I think the majority of Hoya fans get that. And to worry about ratings on a channel that is 5 months old is rather silly. It will take time and in the meantime the schools are getting paid big time.

[HoyaParanoia]

It is simple:

Gtown versus Cuse
Gtown versus UConn
Gtown versus Pitt


Games like that are better than anything offered in the new league (with the exception of Nova). Why would GTown fans get excited about playing in Omaha Nebraska. Terrible fit.

[HoyaParanoia]

Here are a couple of numbers you guys should be able to relate to: 64-47 and 80-67. Maybe those numbers will help you "really know the strengths...."

Why do Xavier fans only play 14 holes of golf?







They can't find the Final Four.

[waggy]

Maybe you can join Charlotte in whatever conference they ended up in? Or maybe you can go to the A10? I dunno. Maybe the ACC will call you guys? I kinda doubt it, but never say never I guess. But why you are here crying about it to X fans makes no sense at all. No one here is the reason you can't get what you want, and no one here can help you get it. And if you think you don't like us now, wait to you smell the glove. And you will smell the glove.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

The tourney selection committee doesn't give two shits about what channel teams play on. Having a tv contract with espn isn't going to help AAC get more teams in the tournament or improve any of their teams seeds

[Michigan Muskie]

It is simple:

Gtown versus Cuse
Gtown versus UConn
Gtown versus Pitt




Games like that are better than anything offered in the new league (with the exception of Nova). Why would GTown fans get excited about playing in Omaha Nebraska. Terrible fit.

Sure, those are all great games for Georgetown. Those three teams are a combined 47-4 at present and would absolutely punish Georgetown this year. Syracuse and Pitt landed in college basketball's premier conference. They don't feel the same way as Georgetown fans.

Want to continue playing Syracuse, UConn, and Pitt? Schedule them in the non-conference. 0-3 might not look great in the W-L column but I'm sure the selection committee will appreciate the SOS.

One last thing...you're right -- it is a terrible fit. The Hoyas might lose by 30 in Omaha, Nebraska.

[HoyaParanoia]

Maybe you can join Charlotte in whatever conference they ended up in? Or maybe you can go to the A10? I dunno. Maybe the ACC will call you guys? I kinda doubt it, but never say never I guess. But why you are here crying about it to X fans makes no sense at all. No one here is the reason you can't get what you want, and no one here can help you get it. And if you think you don't like us now, wait to you smell the glove. And you will smell the glove.

Based on this board:

Xavier = the best program in the country that's never won anything.

[Juice]

It is simple:

Gtown versus Cuse
Gtown versus UConn
Gtown versus Pitt


Games like that are better than anything offered in the new league (with the exception of Nova). Why would GTown fans get excited about playing in Omaha Nebraska. Terrible fit.

I'm not sure why everyone is so defensive. He's simply stating that the old Big East was better, and it was. It had better teams and a better tv deal. That being said, the current Big East should in no way prohibit Georgetown from trying to accomplish whatever it wants to.

[Muskie1000]

He is right about that... however that was long gone before the new Big East emerged. If they would have stayed both Pitt and Syracuse would have been gone. I guess he would have rather played UC and UConn and Memphis and gotten leftovers instead of having a chance to be one of top dogs in a new conference. I know for me, I don't want anyone's leftovers, but maybe that's what dogs (Hoyas) want.

[bleedXblue]

Yeah don't get it either. If I'm a Gtown fan, I'm happy I'm still in a good league with lots of really good programs. I'm also thinking that I should be at or near the top of this league every year.

I think part of what HoyaParanoia is going through is the realization that programs like X and Creighton ( which he is clearly devaluing b/c of his old BE snobbery attitude) are as good or better than GTown.

For so many years a lot of these programs have been hiding behind the Big East conference and the inflated value of it. Sure it was a really good league, but programs like Xavier have been consistently competing with several teams and consistently beating them for over a decade. I'm sure someone can go back and look at our record. There's UC, Pitt, Louisville that come to mind.

It's going to take them a few years to realize that they and their old league wasn't really all that it was cracked up to be.

[HoyaParanoia]

He is right about that... however that was long gone before the new Big East emerged. If they would have stayed both Pitt and Syracuse would have been gone. I guess he would have rather played UC and UConn and Memphis and gotten leftovers instead of having a chance to be one of top dogs in a new conference. I know for me, I don't want anyone's leftovers, but maybe that's what dogs (Hoyas) want.


How many national titles and Final Fours does the current Big East have?

Not many.
Also, I've followed this site for a couple of years (2 co-workers are Xavier guys so we go back and forth). In the past everyone on this board referred to the conference as the "Big Least" and talked about how it was overrated and just ESPN hype. Posters constantly talked about how St. John's, Providence, and DePaul sucked and how Nova was overrated.

So the Big East loses most of their top teams and elite programs.....replaces them with Xavier, Butler, and Creighton, and now somehow the conference is elite (and the above teams no longer suck)?

[GoMuskies]

St. John's, Provi and DePaul still suck. But much less than Fordham, URI and Duquesne.

If you guys keep focusing on the glorious past associations with Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt and UConn, you really will be Charlotte with a quickness. Best get over it.

[HoyaParanoia]

St. John's, Provi and DePaul still suck. But much less than Fordham, URI and Duquesne.

If you guys keep focusing on the glorious past associations with Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt and UConn, you really will be Charlotte with a quickness. Best get over it.

Charlotte has been to more Final Fours than Xavier and Creighton.

[GoMuskies]

Charlotte has been to more Final Fours than Xavier and Creighton.

So have San Francisco, Dayton and CCNY.

But Charlotte turned into a dumpster fire. Feel free to take the same path.

[xumuskies08]

Charlotte has been to more Final Fours than Xavier and Creighton.

You're welcome to form a new league with Charlotte if all you care about is Final 4s. Clearly you don't have a solid grasp on the current college athletics landscape. Georgetown (and Xavier and every team in the new BE) is lucky to have found 9 other programs to form a basketball centric league in a football centric world.

[sgarcia]

Hoya,
How does Pitt get lumped in with Cuse and Uconn? I'm not joking when I ask this. They've made less elite 8's than Xavier in the past decade. Pitt is the Wisconsin of the East. They'll have a good regular season, get an inflated seed and flame out. Please stop lumping Pitt in with teams that have won National Titles and played in Final Fours.

[xsteve1]

I'm not sure why people take the opinion of one idiot and and generalize the entire fanbase. For all we know Hoya whatever may be a jealous UD or UC fan. Just ignore this loser and he or she will go away.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure why people take the opinion of one idiot and and generalize the entire fanbase. For all we know Hoya whatever may be a jealous UD or UC fan. Just ignore this loser and he or she will go away.

Fair point, but I've seen this attitude from more than one Georgetown fan. On one hand, I understand why they feel a bit disappointed. On the other hand, they'd best get the hell over it. And quick. Or those "lesser" programs they're now forced to associate with will leave them in the dust.

[MuskiePimp23]

Hoya,
How does Pitt get lumped in with Cuse and Uconn? I'm not joking when I ask this. They've made less elite 8's than Xavier in the past decade. Pitt is the Wisconsin of the East. They'll have a good regular season, get an inflated seed and flame out. Please stop lumping Pitt in with teams that have won National Titles and played in Final Fours.

Pitt has been to the Elite Eight the same # of times as Xavier. They have 0 Final Fours. They have only been more relevant in recent years, but they also have been a solid regular season team only to flame out in the NCAA tourney. They only went to the Elite Eight a few years ago at our expense when their guard hit a crazy 3, after Derrick Brown stepping on the end line from a full court pass would have virtually sealed the game and given us the win that year. We came back and beat Pitt the next year in the second round to advance back to the Sweet 16 ourselves.

[XUOHTX]

Look here are the current facts.

Old BE > New BE > AAC > A10

ESPN > FS1 > FSNet

The move was an upgrade for us and a downgrade for Georgetown. Yes we called it the Big Least and it was overrated by ESPN, but our argument was that Xavier would win in the BE and we were better than some of those teams. We were never dillusional enough to believe the A10 was better than the BE.

This is also just the beginning. Just look at our recruiting class. I imagine Creighton and Butler's recruiting will improve too. It's a paradigm shift but it's not immediate. In the coming years, if the new BE programs do what they should, the new BE could consistently be a top 3 conference and maybe HoyaParanoia will stop whining.

[danaandvictory]

Where else was Georgetown going to go? There is one non-FBS football school in a power basketball league, and that's Notre Dame, who operates in a different world.

I'm sorry you have to slum it here with the Xaviers and Creightons of the world but isn't the New Big East the least bad alternative?

[Smails]

Based on this board:

Xavier = the best program in the country that's never won anything.

Never won anything? How do you define that...national titles? So in your opinion a program that hasn't won an NCAA tournament has never won anything? Sounds rather short sighted to me.

[drudy23]

How many national titles and Final Fours does the current Big East have?

Not many.
Also, I've followed this site for a couple of years (2 co-workers are Xavier guys so we go back and forth). In the past everyone on this board referred to the conference as the "Big Least" and talked about how it was overrated and just ESPN hype. Posters constantly talked about how St. John's, Providence, and DePaul sucked and how Nova was overrated.

So the Big East loses most of their top teams and elite programs.....replaces them with Xavier, Butler, and Creighton, and now somehow the conference is elite (and the above teams no longer suck)?

The man does have a point.

In reality, without big-time football (which I hope Xavier never gets), this is likely the best conference we could have gotten into. It's not the old Big East, but it's good enough for Xavier to make Final Fours, without a doubt. We were on the cusp twice out of the A10. The level of player we will begin to receive will be slight upgrades....that coupled with they way it strategically places Xavier basketball at the top of the totem poll will get them there.

Regardless, whether its out of the A10 or the Big East, the level of success of this program being a small Catholic school in the middle of Cincinnati, during an era of big time football, is very impressive. They have it figured out, and will continue to improve, which is hard to do.

[bobbiemcgee]

It is simple:

Gtown versus Cuse
Gtown versus UConn
Gtown versus Pitt


Schedule them in the OOC. Who's stopping you.

[Muskie1000]

How many national titles and Final Fours does the current Big East have?

Not many.
Also, I've followed this site for a couple of years (2 co-workers are Xavier guys so we go back and forth). In the past everyone on this board referred to the conference as the "Big Least" and talked about how it was overrated and just ESPN hype. Posters constantly talked about how St. John's, Providence, and DePaul sucked and how Nova was overrated.

So the Big East loses most of their top teams and elite programs.....replaces them with Xavier, Butler, and Creighton, and now somehow the conference is elite (and the above teams no longer suck)?

Some of our distaste of the old Big East was stemming from a little troll across town who constantly compared his conference to ours and in not so many flattering ways. Plus coupled with the slobbering from ESPN, it was a little over the top. The question you haven't answered is - Cuse, Pitt and Louisville were already gone, so you can not use them. Would you have rather stayed in the Big East as it was going to be, with the football programs and take your scraps? I thought your presidents made a wise choice to break away and not just because it helped us. Your schools were being dictated by the almighty football dollar and it wasn't doing a damn thing for your basketball program. If this works the way all of the presidents of the schools hope, this could be the premier basketball conference in the country. Could it not work - of course it could, but now was the time to take a chance. I know last year when VCU and Butler joined the A-10, we were thrilled. Not because they were of the same level we were yet, but because of what they could help our conference to achieve to. They were so much better than Fordham and Duquesne and some of the other bottom feeders we were stuck with. If I were a Hoya fan that is how I would look at it. DePaul, Seton Hall and Providence haven't been the darlings of the conference so maybe some other rising programs would do that.

[XUFan09]

Some of our distaste of the old Big East was stemming from a little troll across town who constantly compared his conference to ours and in not so many flattering ways. Plus coupled with the slobbering from ESPN, it was a little over the top. The question you haven't answered is - Cuse, Pitt and Louisville were already gone, so you can not use them. Would you have rather stayed in the Big East as it was going to be, with the football programs and take your scraps? I thought your presidents made a wise choice to break away and not just because it helped us. Your schools were being dictated by the almighty football dollar and it wasn't doing a damn thing for your basketball program. If this works the way all of the presidents of the schools hope, this could be the premier basketball conference in the country. Could it not work - of course it could, but now was the time to take a chance. I know last year when VCU and Butler joined the A-10, we were thrilled. Not because they were of the same level we were yet, but because of what they could help our conference to achieve to. They were so much better than Fordham and Duquesne and some of the other bottom feeders we were stuck with. If I were a Hoya fan that is how I would look at it. DePaul, Seton Hall and Providence haven't been the darlings of the conference so maybe some other rising programs would do that.

This sums it up well. I get the frustration of not playing Syracuse, Pitt, and Louisville in conference anymore, but you weren't going to be able to anyway. Also, why come to our message board bitching about it? Were you actually looking for a sympathetic ear here or were you just trying to stir up shit? I just don't get the purpose.

[danaandvictory]

The Big East SUX - I want to play in the Unicorn Conference against teams of mythological beasts like griffins and dragons and space bears.

[BMoreX]

Troll.

[HoyaParanoia]

Never won anything? How do you define that...national titles? So in your opinion a program that hasn't won an NCAA tournament has never won anything? Sounds rather short sighted to me.


It takes 6 wins in the NCAA tournament to win a National Title.

Xavier has never made it more than halfway through (never won more than 3 games).

That is never winning anything.

[HoyaParanoia]

Troll? Doubtful.

Just wondering why you guys trashed the Big East for years.

The Big East gets considerably weaker and now its awesome.

[xudash]

Hey, floors weeper came back dressed as a different bulldog.

[danaandvictory]

Kind of odd that this person is trolling a Xavier board while his own school is playing a tight game on television, but whatever.

[xudash]

Kind of odd that this person is trolling a Xavier board while his own school is playing a tight game on television, but whatever.

Tight is presently heading towards a loss.

[xufan02]

Another poor performance by Georgetown in the second half. Seton Hall is not an easy team to play. They really play hard each game.

[HoyaParanoia]

Another poor performance by Georgetown in the second half. Seton Hall is not an easy team to play. They really play hard each game.

We are a 2 man team right now. Not very optimistic for the remainder of the year.

According to this board, Seton Hall has always sucked. Now that they are in the new Big East with Xavier, they must be a lot better.

[GoMuskies]

I didn't think Georgetown would become Charlotte quite this fast.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Lose at home to seton hall? Hahahaha. At least Georgetown won't be embarrassing the conference with yet another choke job in the tourney this year.

[HoyaParanoia]

Lose at home to seton hall? Hahahaha. At least Georgetown won't be embarrassing the conference with yet another choke job in the tourney this year.


The tourney Xavier didnt participate in.

[XUFan09]

Seton Hall is going to be a pain for the conference this year. They are finally fully healthy but so much damage has been done already. They have a respectable team (though by no means a tourney team) without the RPI/Kenpom numbers to show it, and they will probably count as a bad loss for whoever they beat.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

The tourney Xavier didnt participate in.

Have fun watching us play in it this year. Hopefully we don't pull a Georgetown

[xufan02]

We are a 2 man team right now. Not very optimistic for the remainder of the year.

According to this board, Seton Hall has always sucked. Now that they are in the new Big East with Xavier, they must be a lot better.

Yeah, its very difficult to get space for DSR and Starks when you do not have a post player that you can throw it in to. Hopefully Smith gets back soon, otherwise teams are just going to need to shut down the guards.

I know Georgetown has a very nice recruiting class coming in, any post players in the class; they need help.

[Strange Brew]

It takes 6 wins in the NCAA tournament to win a National Title.

Xavier has never made it more than halfway through (never won more than 3 games).

That is never winning anything.

Mutumbo and Mourning would disagree that Xavier has never won anything.

Further, I'm looking forward to having the opportunity to put GU in its place twice a year. One down one to go.

[xufan02]

I'm all for Xavier fans wanting to beat Georgetown, but we need them to win. Georgetown is a big time program and we need them to be a consistent top 4 team in the Big East for this thing to work.

[bleedXblue]

I don't recall EVER seeing a post where we thought the new Big East was " better" than the old. No one that I know of has ever posted anything remotely close to that opinion. Yes, Seton Hall, Providence, St John's have been consistent underperformers for the last 10-15 years. St. John's has sprinkled n a few decent seasons but that's it. We're in a better place than we were last year and GTown I guess isn't. The old Big East was a cluster F of a conference. It was not going to last and everyone knew that. Get over it and move on.

[paulxu]

We're in a better place than we were last year and GTown I guess isn't. The old Big East was a cluster F of a conference. It was not going to last and everyone knew that. Get over it and move on.

Exactly. If you were Georgetown, would you want to be in the AAACK once Louisville, Pitt and Syr have left for the ACC? Would you want to be there and have football schools like Tulane dictating how much $ you make and when you can go to the bathroom?

Of course not. That's why your president led the charge to form the new Big East, focus on basketball, make more money and control your own destiny.
I feel pretty sure you're not a real Georgetown fan. Nobody from there could be that dumb.

[waggy]

I'm all for Xavier fans wanting to beat Georgetown, but we need them to win. Georgetown is a big time program and we need them to be a consistent top 4 team in the Big East for this thing to work.

X can only control what it can control. The mood of the GTown fan base, and whether they care about winning, are not our problems. Seriously, coming here to whine is complete garbage. IDGAF, and neither should you or anyone else associated with X.

[waggy]

And GTown is killing our RPI right now. They need to pick it up.

[Strange Brew]

And GTown is killing our RPI right now. They need to pick it up.

Maybe the league should replace them with Richmond or VCU if they don't start pulling their weight. :)

[XU 87]

Troll? Doubtful.

Just wondering why you guys trashed the Big East for years.

The Big East gets considerably weaker and now its awesome.

I for one never trashed the old Big East. But now that your new big brother Xavier has joined, it's now an awesome conference. You need to understand something- Xavier has dominated the last 2 conferences it was in. And you're going to learn that this streak will continue in the Big East. So I suggest you start showing the proper respect to your new big brother.

[OH.X.MI]

It is simple:

Games like that are better than anything offered in the new league (with the exception of Nova). Why would GTown fans get excited about playing in Omaha Nebraska. Terrible fit.

Snobs from the east coast really cannot stand it when teams from the Midwest beat them up can they? Keep living in your ivory tower idiot.

[BMoreX]

The tourney Xavier didnt participate in.

Nice loss today.

[Smails]

Troll? Doubtful.

Just wondering why you guys trashed the Big East for years.

The Big East gets considerably weaker and now its awesome.

God it would be nice to have some oppposing fans on this site who weren't complete fucksticks. Please go back and find evidence of people on this board saying that the old BE was not a good conference and that this current conference is better. Was there talk about it being overrated? Absolutely. That stems from getting 8 teams in the NCAAs and having half of them bounced on the first weekend. But there was never any real discussion that the BE sucked...it just wasn't as god-like as ESPN made it out to be.

Now you can cry like a little twat all you want, that's certainly your perogative. But your whining loses a lot of weight when your team is having trouble competing in this new weak ass conference against the new weak ass teams who have never won anything. See how silly you sound?

[xumuskies08]

The tourney Xavier didnt participate in.

Nope, you're definitely not trolling at all. Don't you have your own basketball team to worry about?

[DC Muskie]

The tourney Xavier didnt participate in.

GTown had a great year in 2007. They went to the Final Four. That was great.

Since then the Hoyas have won 2 tournament games. Two.

Since 2007, Xavier has won 10. Ten.

[DC Muskie]

It is simple:

Gtown versus Cuse
Gtown versus UConn
Gtown versus Pitt


Games like that are better than anything offered in the new league (with the exception of Nova). Why would GTown fans get excited about playing in Omaha Nebraska. Terrible fit.

What "GTown" fans are you talking about? They simply don't exist in large numbers. And I'm a fan of GTown. But these games you listed, (Not sure why Pitt is there, but whatever) Syracuse filled the Phone Booth. Duke fills the Phone Booth. With their fans, not excited Hoya fans who come out.

Omaha Nebraska has 18,000 fans who cheer for their team. That would never happen in DC because there is simply not 18,000 Hoya fans in this city.

Come on man you can't be serious with this idea that Hoya fans simply won't show up for games. They won't show up because they don't actually exist.

[kyxu]

What "GTown" fans are you talking about? They simply don't exist in large numbers. And I'm a fan of GTown. But these games you listed, (Not sure why Pitt is there, but whatever) Syracuse filled the Phone Booth. Duke fills the Phone Booth. With their fans, not excited Hoya fans who come out.

Omaha Nebraska has 18,000 fans who cheer for their team. That would never happen in DC because there is simply not 18,000 Hoya fans in this city.

Come on man you can't be serious with this idea that Hoya fans simply won't show up for games. They won't show up because they don't actually exist.

+1

[XU 87]

What "GTown" fans are you talking about? They simply don't exist in large numbers. And I'm a fan of GTown. But these games you listed, (Not sure why Pitt is there, but whatever) Syracuse filled the Phone Booth. Duke fills the Phone Booth. With their fans, not excited Hoya fans who come out.

Omaha Nebraska has 18,000 fans who cheer for their team. That would never happen in DC because there is simply not 18,000 Hoya fans in this city.

Come on man you can't be serious with this idea that Hoya fans simply won't show up for games. They won't show up because they don't actually exist.

I think this post is known as "Kicking a man while he's down" or "Piling on."

HoyaParanoia, care to respond to this beatdown?

[X-band '01]

Seton Hall is scary in that you don't know which team will show up. Will it be the one that wins at Providence and Georgetown or the one that loses at home to Fairleigh Dickinson (really?) and some other NJ rival?

[waggy]

Was on the Live-RPI website and realized they have X record wrong at only 13-4 instead of 14-4. Looks like they are missing the Abilene Christian game. D'oh!

[XUFan09]

Was on the Live-RPI website and realized they have X record wrong at only 13-4 instead of 14-4. Looks like they are missing the Abilene Christian game. D'oh!

They actually have it right then! The NCAA isn't going to count that game.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[LA Muskie]

They actually have it right then! The NCAA isn't going to count that game.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Only in the NCAA would a game count in our record but not in our RPI.

[Fireball]

Having read through this thread, I quite honestly am not surprised. I expected that Georgetown fans were going to have a bit of grief about the old Big East for a while. Basically, the old Big East was awesome, but didn't really work for anyone involved anymore. The new Big East is slightly less awesome, but ultimately is a much better match for them. It will take them some time, but they'll realize it.

[Juice]

Having read through this thread, I quite honestly am not surprised. I expected that Georgetown fans were going to have a bit of grief about the old Big East for a while. Basically, the old Big East was awesome, but didn't really work for anyone involved anymore. The new Big East is slightly less awesome, but ultimately is a much better match for them. It will take them some time, but they'll realize it.

How is it better to not have the better teams not in the conference and less possible money being paid? XU's situation is definitely improved but not Georgetown's.

[xubrew]

Some Georgetown fans are starting to remind me a bit of Charlotte fans when they joined the A-10. They turned up their noses and felt like they were too good to be stuck in the "lowly" A-10 and felt there was no chance to be relevant inationally n the league, and soon enough they weren't even good enough to be a contender in the A-10. Meanwhile, Xavier was going to the Sweet 16 every year. Keep bitching about this league Hoya fans and watch what happens to your program while Xavier once again elevates its program. Best be careful.

Hmmmm. This is a very good observation.


I think Hoyaparanoia is just that and he is probably in the minority. I think this new league is the most unique in the country and all of the games have been very intense and exciting. What's not to like? All of the teams actually have something in common and are very similar in vision and goals. Georgetown has nothing in common with big state football schools and to be honest playing with them really wasn't doing anything for them. The new big east is a basketball conference for basketball schools. It's as simple as that. If Georgetown wants to play with football schools with nothing in common good luck. But I think the majority of Hoya fans get that. And to worry about ratings on a channel that is 5 months old is rather silly. It will take time and in the meantime the schools are getting paid big time.

He's not in the minority. Georgetown hated this, for basically all the reasons he's given. They're not excited about Louisville, and Syracuse, and Pitt, and UConn being gone, XU, Creighton and Butler are in their place. You can call it arrogant if you want to, but anyone who thinks that Georgetown was excited because they were going to get to be in a league with Xavier is WAAAYY out of touch. They hated it. They fought it kicking and screaming. They really don't like anything about it, including the TV deal.

Now, having said that, it was by far still their best option, but that doesn't mean that they don't think it sucks.


I'm not sure why people take the opinion of one idiot and and generalize the entire fanbase. For all we know Hoya whatever may be a jealous UD or UC fan. Just ignore this loser and he or she will go away.

That's pretty much how all their fans feel.


Fair point, but I've seen this attitude from more than one Georgetown fan. On one hand, I understand why they feel a bit disappointed. On the other hand, they'd best get the hell over it. And quick. Or those "lesser" programs they're now forced to associate with will leave them in the dust.

So have I. Like, ALL of them. In fact, I have not heard from anyone at Georgetown that is actually happy about this.

I'm not saying that it's not arrogant, and that it doesn't deserve ridicule when they can't beat the teams that they feel are a downgrade, but that is pretty much how all of the people at Georgetown feel. They prefer playing Pitt, Louisville, UConn, Syracuse on ESPN in prime time slots and getting more money to playing us. I'm not shocked by that. I'm not the least bit sympathetic toward them, and I do feel that Georgetown has way too high an opinion of itself, but it's hardly shocking to me that they feel that way. It's Georgetown. It's not the type of fanbase that I would expect to be gracious about something like this. They're not happy.

[XU 87]

How is it better to not have the better teams not in the conference and less possible money being paid? XU's situation is definitely improved but not Georgetown's.

Given the circumstances, Georgetown's situation is much improved. Syracuse, Pitt, WVU and Louisville were all leaving the league. Georgetown wasn't looking forward to playing Tulane, SMU etc. Georgetown formed the new league because the new league did in fact improve their situation, given the circumstances.

So when HoyaParnoia says, "I hate this new league." What he is really saying is, "I wish many of our top teams wouldn't have left for different leagues." Well guess what? They did.

[DC Muskie]

He's not in the minority. Georgetown hated this, for basically all the reasons he's given. They're not excited about Louisville, and Syracuse, and Pitt, and UConn being gone, XU, Creighton and Butler are in their place. You can call it arrogant if you want to, but anyone who thinks that Georgetown was excited because they were going to get to be in a league with Xavier is WAAAYY out of touch. They hated it. They fought it kicking and screaming. They really don't like anything about it, including the TV deal.

So have I. Like, ALL of them. In fact, I have not heard from anyone at Georgetown that is actually happy about this.

I'm not saying that it's not arrogant, and that it doesn't deserve ridicule when they can't beat the teams that they feel are a downgrade, but that is pretty much how all of the people at Georgetown feel. They prefer playing Pitt, Louisville, UConn, Syracuse on ESPN in prime time slots and getting more money to playing us. I'm not shocked by that. I'm not the least bit sympathetic toward them, and I do feel that Georgetown has way too high an opinion of itself, but it's hardly shocking to me that they feel that way. It's Georgetown. It's not the type of fanbase that I would expect to be gracious about something like this. They're not happy.

Georgetown fans in general are pretty stupid. Of course they don't like this deal. But they fail to realize they are the only ones who can make their program, which 35 years ago, was nothing, matter again. Over the course of those 35 years they decided that their program was defined by who they played, not what they have won.

They don't understand that Syracuse is now using them. They signed a deal with Cuse just to keep that game alive when Cuse decided they would rather play football against Wake Forest then play basketball with them. Cuse's program is not defined by who they play, it's defined by what they do on the court. Actually it's defined by what their football program does, because their basketball program is a second class citizen at this point.

GTown is is just like Xavier. Just like Butler, just like Creighton. If GTown can't get excited about a program like Creighton being in the league, with the potential NPOY on the team, then their slow decline to nothing will only escalate.

GTown fans weren't excited playing UC, South Florida, Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, or any of those teams. They are excited to play Cuse because Cuse fans fill their arena.

If they begin to win, none of this will matter. If they don't, then we will continue to read how this conference is dragging them down. And despite me being an actual fan of the program, I will simply chuckle at their perspective place in the college basketball landscape. GTown is in the same position we are. Syracuse has a mediocre football program, but one that allows them to play and be paid on a completely different level. It would be wise for Hoya fans to quickly come to that conclusion, own their future, and move past the days when they played in a conference that they tied their identity to.

[xubrew]

Georgetown fans in general are pretty stupid. Of course they don't like this deal. But they fail to realize they are the only ones who can make their program, which 35 years ago, was nothing, matter again. Over the course of those 35 years they decided that their program was defined by who they played, not what they have won.

They don't understand that Syracuse is now using them. They signed a deal with Cuse just to keep that game alive when Cuse decided they would rather play football against Wake Forest then play basketball with them. Cuse's program is not defined by who they play, it's defined by what they do on the court. Actually it's defined by what their football program does, because their basketball program is a second class citizen at this point.

GTown is is just like Xavier. Just like Butler, just like Creighton. If GTown can't get excited about a program like Creighton being in the league, with the potential NPOY on the team, then their slow decline to nothing will only escalate.

GTown fans weren't excited playing UC, South Florida, Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, or any of those teams. They are excited to play Cuse because Cuse fans fill their arena.

If they begin to win, none of this will matter. If they don't, then we will continue to read how this conference is dragging them down. And despite me being an actual fan of the program, I will simply chuckle at their perspective place in the college basketball landscape. GTown is in the same position we are. Syracuse has a mediocre football program, but one that allows them to play and be paid on a completely different level. It would be wise for Hoya fans to quickly come to that conclusion, own their future, and move past the days when they played in a conference that they tied their identity to.

I agree with all of this.

So, with that in mind, it's no surprise at all that they're not happy. Their excitement level and enthusiasm toward the new league wasn't quite what our's was. I just find it funny that some of the posters here seem surprised at that.

[SemajParlor]

Not sure why people are surprised that Georgetown or any "old" Big East fans aren't thrilled with the new league.

[Juice]

Given the circumstances, Georgetown's situation is much improved. Syracuse, Pitt, WVU and Louisville were all leaving the league. Georgetown wasn't looking forward to playing Tulane, SMU etc. Georgetown formed the new league because the new league did in fact improve their situation, given the circumstances.

So when HoyaParnoia says, "I hate this new league." What he is really saying is, "I wish many of our top teams wouldn't have left for different leagues." Well guess what? They did.

It's improved over its option of being in the AAC but not over what it was in.

I hate Georgetown as much as the next guy but comparing the old BE to its current form is not very close.

[UCGRAD4X]

Given the circumstances, Georgetown's situation is much improved. Syracuse, Pitt, WVU and Louisville were all leaving the league. Georgetown wasn't looking forward to playing Tulane, SMU etc. Georgetown formed the new league because the new league did in fact improve their situation, given the circumstances.

So when HoyaParnoia says, "I hate this new league." What he is really saying is, "I wish many of our top teams wouldn't have left for different leagues." Well guess what? They did.

So, let me see if I get this straight...the New Big East is not as good as the Old Big East but better that the New Old Big East that never was?

[xavierj]

This Big East conference is a meat grinder. There will be no nights off. Every team in this league will get stronger over the next few years because of the way it is setup. Even DePaul will get better because they are finally in a league that makes sense for them. DePaul had very little in common with the old big east teams and had zero advantages. The league is top 3 in RPI and I expect that to continue. The recruiting is awesome and it is the most unique conference in the country. They focus on one thing, basketball.

[RealDeal]

Not sure why people are surprised that Georgetown or any "old" Big East fans aren't thrilled with the new league.

Not sure why anyone should care.

[XU 87]

It's improved over its option of being in the AAC but not over what it was in.

I hate Georgetown as much as the next guy but comparing the old BE to its current form is not very close.

I'm not comparing them. I'm simply saying that the new BE was the best (only) option for Gtown and was their best situation, given the circumstances. So people like HoyaParanoia need to stop bitching.

[XU 87]

So, let me see if I get this straight...the New Big East is not as good as the Old Big East but better that the New Old Big East that never was?

Well said.

[fellahmuskie]

Not to be controversial or anything...but everyone knows football's a dying sport. That's why the Big East is positioned to dominate in 10-15 years.

[Burrcats]

This Big East conference is a meat grinder. There will be no nights off. Every team in this league will get stronger over the next few years because of the way it is setup. Even DePaul will get better because they are finally in a league that makes sense for them. DePaul had very little in common with the old big east teams and had zero advantages. The league is top 3 in RPI and I expect that to continue. The recruiting is awesome and it is the most unique conference in the country. They focus on one thing, basketball.

Been hearing about DePaul getting better because of the Big East since 2006. They had historical connections with Cincinnati, Louisville and Marquette along with the other C7 schools that are urban cities. Not sure where you came to that conclusion.

[GoMuskies]

Been hearing about DePaul getting better because of the Big East since 2006. They had historical connections with Cincinnati, Louisville and Marquette along with the other C7 schools that are urban cities. Not sure where you came to that conclusion.

I'm certainly not ccounting on anything from DePaul, but I think they have a much better chance of finding some success now that their league will me more manageable.

[HoyaParanoia]

New big brother that has never won anything. Right on.

[GoMuskies]

New big brother that has never won anything. Right on.

And neither has Georgetown since any current college basketball player has been alive.

[HoyaParanoia]

GTown had a great year in 2007. They went to the Final Four. That was great.

Since then the Hoyas have won 2 tournament games. Two.

Since 2007, Xavier has won 10. Ten.

Since the beginning of their program, Xavier has never been to the Final Four. Never. GTown 5x's

Catch Butler, George Mason, Wichita State, Dayton, and Charlotte before you talk about the Hoyas.

[GoMuskies]

This is why it's going to be so much fun to own this pissant league.

[HoyaParanoia]

This Big East conference is a meat grinder. There will be no nights off. Every team in this league will get stronger over the next few years because of the way it is setup. Even DePaul will get better because they are finally in a league that makes sense for them. DePaul had very little in common with the old big east teams and had zero advantages. The league is top 3 in RPI and I expect that to continue. The recruiting is awesome and it is the most unique conference in the country. They focus on one thing, basketball.

again you say this now. for years this board said DePaul, Seton Hall, and Providence sucked. funny how this changed now they are in the league with Xavier.

no one has explained why the above schools have been trashed for years on this board, but now they are "sleepers" and "on the rise"

[HoyaParanoia]

And neither has Georgetown since any current college basketball player has been alive.

Final four in 2007. Farther than X has ever made it.

[GoMuskies]

Congrats on that. Enjoy looking up at us in the standings and get used to it.

[danaandvictory]

again you say this now. for years this board said DePaul, Seton Hall, and Providence sucked. funny how this changed now they are in the league with Xavier.

no one has explained why the above schools have been trashed for years on this board, but now they are "sleepers" and "on the rise"

"For years"?

You've been trolling a Xavier message board "for years"?

[Nigel Tufnel]

again you say this now. for years this board said DePaul, Seton Hall, and Providence sucked. funny how this changed now they are in the league with Xavier.

no one has explained why the above schools have been trashed for years on this board, but now they are "sleepers" and "on the rise"

This poster isn't a Hoya fan. Why would a Hoya fan come to this board for years to read posts here? I'm smelling a UD troll. Plus, he is taking past comments on the bottom of the old Big East out of context. Posts here about the bottom of the old Big East were always in response to Cronin taking swipes at the A10. What was it? "Are you telling me DePaul wouldn't win the A10?"

And if you are actually a Hoya fan, get a D1 football team or STFU.

[GoMuskies]

I think people have tried to be optimistic about DePaul, Provi and Seton Hall since we've joined the conference. But most of the commentary has, I think, been along the lines of: at least they're not Fordham, St. Bonaventure and Duquesne.

[danaandvictory]

This poster isn't a Hoya fan. Why would a Hoya fan come to this board for years to read posts here? I'm smelling a UD troll.

His pathetic boner for the "Old Big East" - while never mentioning the actual classic period of Big East basketball with Thompson and Carnesecca and Massimino - tells me he's a discipline of Mick "Uriah Heep" Cronin. Perhaps a member of his family.

[Cheesehead]

Agreed.. not real G-Town. Why would a Hoya fan be on our message board years ago to go through our posts about other team? We rarely played each other and we are not in the same conference.

I smell a rat….or YTG.

[waggy]

They actually have it right then! The NCAA isn't going to count that game.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


Seriously? Why?

[HoyaParanoia]

This poster isn't a Hoya fan. Why would a Hoya fan come to this board for years to read posts here? I'm smelling a UD troll. Plus, he is taking past comments on the bottom of the old Big East out of context. Posts here about the bottom of the old Big East were always in response to Cronin taking swipes at the A10. What was it? "Are you telling me DePaul wouldn't win the A10?"

And if you are actually a Hoya fan, get a D1 football team or STFU.

Says the guy without a football team.

[XUFan09]

Seriously? Why?

First year of D1 transition, so they don't count toward any team's RPI.

[XUFan09]

Says the guy without a football team.

He can say that because he's not the one whining about no longer playing football schools that left his team behind.

[waggy]

First year of D1 transition, so they don't count toward any team's RPI.


Didn't realize that. Thanks.

[XU 87]

New big brother that has never won anything. Right on.

Hoya Paranoia (AKA Little Brother)- at least your acknowledging what's going to happen to your program. Don't get me wrong- I think you'll still be good, but not as good as your new Big Brother, Xavier. The fact that you're spending so much time on Big Brother's board says a lot.

But if you guys don't start playing a little better, we may have to ask to have Gtown removed for GW.

[bjf123]

So, let me see if I get this straight...the New Big East is not as good as the Old Big East but better that the New Old Big East that never was?

BINGO!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bjf123]

Posts here about the bottom of the old Big East were always in response to Cronin taking swipes at the A10. What was it? "Are you telling me DePaul wouldn't win the A10?"

I thought it was Seton Hall, not that it matters. Whoever it was had just beaten UC and Mick was whining about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fireball]

I don't blame any Georgetown fan for not being as happy with the new Big East as they were in the old Big East. However, they should be happy that they're in the Big East as it is now, because their alternative is not the new Big East...it's the AAC.

Eventually, Georgetown fan will realize that it landed in a pretty good spot post-realignment. Don't you think that UConn or Cincinnati basketball fan would prefer to be where we are now? Exactly.

[XU 87]

And I think X had just beaten UC a few weeks before his "Seton Hall would win the A-10" comments.

[xavierj]

Been hearing about DePaul getting better because of the Big East since 2006. They had historical connections with Cincinnati, Louisville and Marquette along with the other C7 schools that are urban cities. Not sure where you came to that conclusion.

I'm talking about size of school, mission and vision. DePaul had nothing in common with Louisville, syracuse, Pitt and UC other than playing in the same conference. DePaul will be in a better chance to compete due to the playing field being a little closer to the same dynamics they will deal with.

[X-band '01]

Been hearing about DePaul getting better because of the Big East since 2006. They had historical connections with Cincinnati, Louisville and Marquette along with the other C7 schools that are urban cities. Not sure where you came to that conclusion.

I think DePaul could have been more competitive had they been able to retain Dave Leitao, but he took the Virginia job once Gillen was canned. Even Jerry Wainwright managed an NIT bid in his 2nd season at DePaul (mostly with upperclassmen from the Leitao regime). For whatever reason, he could not recruit anybody to play there.

Even this year, they've been competitive in all but one game in the Big East. That says more about Villanova than in does about DePaul, I would think.

[DC Muskie]

Interesting but not surprising fact, Oliver Purnell has never won an NCAA tournament game. I wonder where he will land next.

[X-band '01]

Given that Purnell was at least able to get Dayton and Clemson back in the NCAAs after their programs were in complete ruins, it seemed like a good hire at least in terms of helping them rebuild. You'd think the DePaul fans would be calling for his head right about now, but I think fan apathy is a bigger problem for their program at this point.

[RoseyMuskie]

My criticism of the Old Big East stemmed from their OOC scheduling. ESPN and various other media outlets pumped up their pre-season rankings due to the name of the league alone. Many teams wouldn't play a single road game until conference season, and ran the table. Once conference play began, the league would have teams that had an inflated rank, so when you'd lose to that opponent, it didn't hurt your resume. UC was prime example number one. I personally thought Syracuse was a culprit as well.

I've always thought it was a Top 3 conference, but ESPN's power to drive the conference through the circle that I mention above was why I criticized the league. I just didn't think a television station should have that much influence on ranking, seeding, etc. when in actuality teams weren't playing anyone on the road OOC.

[xavierj]

My criticism of the Old Big East stemmed from their OOC scheduling. ESPN and various other media outlets pumped up their pre-season rankings due to the name of the league alone. Many teams wouldn't play a single road game until conference season, and ran the table. Once conference play began, the league would have teams that had an inflated rank, so when you'd lose to that opponent, it didn't hurt your resume. UC was prime example number one. I personally thought Syracuse was a culprit as well.

I've always thought it was a Top 3 conference, but ESPN's power to drive the conference through the circle that I mention above was why I criticized the league. I just didn't think a television station should have that much influence on ranking, seeding, etc. when in actuality teams weren't playing anyone on the road OOC.

The big east was a strong conference but never as tough as people wanted to make it. They have always had some great individual teams but had plenty of overrated patsies as well. Anyway I love the situation Xavier is in and aside from Georgetown I think most fans in the conference are happy with the setup. It is surely a better situation for Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul. Interesting that some of the Big East mainstays are the ones struggling with the new setup. Maybe because the new teams play basketball and not some sort of wrestling that I saw a lot of in the old big east.

[golfitup]

When FS1 aired that preseason show they asked Ed Cooley and Oliver Purnell what it would be like for the newcomers joining the conference. I'm paraphrasing, but they essentially said it'd be harder now for us (and Creighton and Butler, obviously) now because of the tougher league schedule but that we'd get use to it. Which i found hilarious. Uh, guys, your schools have been irrelevant for quite a while. You should be just as happy as us to be involved in this new league. We're already proving to be one of the better teams in the league. That 7th place league prediction always seems off to me. Thankfully, the team is backing that up.

[waggy]

I think it's obvious we are better than 7th, but we've played one road game.

[xudash]

I think it's obvious we are better than 7th, but we've played one road game.

Exactly. Obviously, it's about taking one game at a time. This is a key game for us, because we are about to play one of our new "Fordham's", even though Depaul is much better than Fordham. We have a culture of winning, and we know how to navigate a conference season. Most of the names have changed, but the path to our success is familiar enough.

[Masterofreality]

Hmmmm. This is a very good observation.



He's not in the minority. Georgetown hated this, for basically all the reasons he's given. They're not excited about Louisville, and Syracuse, and Pitt, and UConn being gone, XU, Creighton and Butler are in their place. You can call it arrogant if you want to, but anyone who thinks that Georgetown was excited because they were going to get to be in a league with Xavier is WAAAYY out of touch. They hated it. They fought it kicking and screaming. They really don't like anything about it.

I'm not saying that it's not arrogant, and that it doesn't deserve ridicule when they can't beat the teams that they feel are a downgrade, but that is pretty much how all of the people at Georgetown feel. They prefer playing Pitt, Louisville, UConn, Syracuse on ESPN in prime time slots and getting more money to playing us. I'm not shocked by that. I'm not the least bit sympathetic toward them, and I do feel that Georgetown has way too high an opinion of itself, but it's hardly shocking to me that they feel that way. It's Georgetown. It's not the type of fanbase that I would expect to be gracious about something like this. They're not happy.


again you say this now. for years this board said DePaul, Seton Hall, and Providence sucked. funny how this changed now they are in the league with Xavier.

no one has explained why the above schools have been trashed for years on this board, but now they are "sleepers" and "on the rise"

Please allow me to point out a salient fact. One major reason why the old Big East broke up was because the Georgetown administration was dead against...and reportedly loudly lobbied against.....a new TV deal from ESPN a few years ago- in 2011- when ESPN had exclusive negotiating rights that would have given the league a ton of money, reportedly $1 billion over 9 years..almost 10 million per team. When that deal was trashed, Syracuse, West Virginia and Pitt started looking elsewhere and the dominos began to fall. If Georgetown would have been in favor of that deal, chances are, considering that the amount of money going to each school would have way outweighed the issues with football ruling the roost, the Big East would have probably stayed together. Whether the league would have remained relevant in football now, after the BCS is gone, is irrelevant because the money would be in the bank.

After the defections, the value of the league was lessened greatly to the point that a school like Tulane being offered membership, was the last straw. GTown then needed a place to land and, truly, the best alternative was found...along with a $500 million 10 year deal with Fox. It was the best outcome after the 2011 deal was trashed.

So, Hoya fan. Get off any high horse and enjoy your new partners, because you screwed up in 2011 and came out pretty well with solid additions. Now stop bitching, clean up your house and win some damn basketball games....especially against teams outside the league. As for what was said on this board in the past, Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul did all suck. It was all true. Now we are all one league and we want everyone to do well. Period. Nothing more.

[DC Muskie]

Since the beginning of their program, Xavier has never been to the Final Four. Never. GTown 5x's

Catch Butler, George Mason, Wichita State, Dayton, and Charlotte before you talk about the Hoyas.

We won a title in 1958. Same number of national titles as GTown.


Final four in 2007. Farther than X has ever made it.

2 wins since then. Biggest rival wanted to play football against Wake Forest than play you.


Says the guy without a football team.

Since the beginning of the program Xavier has won a bowl game. Catch us before you start talking about having a 2-9 football team.

[HoyaParanoia]

[QUOTE=DC Muskie;423968]We won a title in 1958. Same number of national titles as GTown.


NIT? Get serious.

[HoyaParanoia]

Please allow me to point out a salient fact. One major reason why the old Big East broke up was because the Georgetown administration was dead against...and reportedly loudly lobbied against.....a new TV deal from ESPN a few years ago- in 2011- when ESPN had exclusive negotiating rights that would have given the league a ton of money, reportedly $1 billion over 9 years..almost 10 million per team. When that deal was trashed, Syracuse, West Virginia and Pitt started looking elsewhere and the dominos began to fall. If Georgetown would have been in favor of that deal, chances are, considering that the amount of money going to each school would have way outweighed the issues with football ruling the roost, the Big East would have probably stayed together. Whether the league would have remained relevant in football now, after the BCS is gone, is irrelevant because the money would be in the bank.

After the defections, the value of the league was lessened greatly to the point that a school like Tulane being offered membership, was the last straw. GTown then needed a place to land and, truly, the best alternative was found...along with a $500 million 10 year deal with Fox. It was the best outcome after the 2011 deal was trashed.

So, Hoya fan. Get off any high horse and enjoy your new partners, because you screwed up in 2011 and came out pretty well with solid additions. Now stop bitching, clean up your house and win some damn basketball games....especially against teams outside the league. As for what was said on this board in the past, Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul did all suck. It was all true. Now we are all one league and we want everyone to do well. Period. Nothing more.

So do Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul still suck or not?

[BMoreX]

So do Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul still suck or not?

In all seriousness sir, why are you here?

[LA Muskie]

So do Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul still suck or not?
Yes. Yes they still do.

[LA Muskie]

NIT? Get serious.

Yes. But at a time when it meant something.

[dcfunk]

The best part about discussing hoops with the Georgetown fanbase is that their premier squad of all time, with Mutombo and Mourning in the frontcourt, was defeated by Xavier (Ohio) in 1990 when it mattered most.

Our mid-major front court at the time, who voluntarily decided to play for a small, Jesuit university, with limited basketball tradition, in the MCC, kicked their asses that day. That XU frontcourt featured 3 future NBA players (Hill, Strong, Williams), one of which would be an NBA All-Star a few years later.

I still cannot understand how Pete Gillen recruited players of that caliber, back when we played in an old circus barn, and boasted rivalries against Evansville and Loyola (IL). An XU frontcourt with 3 NBA players, today, would be incredible...let alone 25 years ago. So Georgetown....we beat your best then, we'll beat your best now, and we'll beat your best to come.

That is all.

[DC Muskie]

[QUOTE=DC Muskie;423968]We won a title in 1958. Same number of national titles as GTown.


NIT? Get serious.

Georgetown has a football program? Hilarious.

[Masterofreality]

Please allow me to point out a salient fact. One major reason why the old Big East broke up was because the Georgetown administration was dead against...and reportedly loudly lobbied against.....a new TV deal from ESPN a few years ago- in 2011- when ESPN had exclusive negotiating rights that would have given the league a ton of money, reportedly $1 billion over 9 years..almost 10 million per team. When that deal was trashed, Syracuse, West Virginia and Pitt started looking elsewhere and the dominos began to fall. If Georgetown would have been in favor of that deal, chances are, considering that the amount of money going to each school would have way outweighed the issues with football ruling the roost, the Big East would have probably stayed together. Whether the league would have remained relevant in football now, after the BCS is gone, is irrelevant because the money would be in the bank.

After the defections, the value of the league was lessened greatly to the point that a school like Tulane being offered membership, was the last straw. GTown then needed a place to land and, truly, the best alternative was found...along with a $500 million 10 year deal with Fox. It was the best outcome after the 2011 deal was trashed.

So, Hoya fan. Get off any high horse and enjoy your new partners, because you screwed up in 2011 and came out pretty well with solid additions. Now stop bitching, clean up your house and win some damn basketball games....especially against teams outside the league. As for what was said on this board in the past, Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul did all suck. It was all true. Now we are all one league and we want everyone to do well. Period. Nothing more.


So do Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul still suck or not?

So that's you're response? No comment or defense of GTown's past arrogance?

Of course not....arrogant pricks don't recognize arrogance. It's a new day, buddy. Accept your situation, be happy with how it turned out and make it better.

BTW. Why doesn't GTown have a rivalry intercity game with GW like Xavier does with SucKS, oh Arrogant One?

Finally, I prefer to get my GTown takes from Casual Hoya.

[Burrcats]

Please allow me to point out a salient fact. One major reason why the old Big East broke up was because the Georgetown administration was dead against...and reportedly loudly lobbied against.....a new TV deal from ESPN a few years ago- in 2011- when ESPN had exclusive negotiating rights that would have given the league a ton of money, reportedly $1 billion over 9 years..almost 10 million per team. When that deal was trashed, Syracuse, West Virginia and Pitt started looking elsewhere and the dominos began to fall. If Georgetown would have been in favor of that deal, chances are, considering that the amount of money going to each school would have way outweighed the issues with football ruling the roost, the Big East would have probably stayed together. Whether the league would have remained relevant in football now, after the BCS is gone, is irrelevant because the money would be in the bank.

After the defections, the value of the league was lessened greatly to the point that a school like Tulane being offered membership, was the last straw. GTown then needed a place to land and, truly, the best alternative was found...along with a $500 million 10 year deal with Fox. It was the best outcome after the 2011 deal was trashed.

So, Hoya fan. Get off any high horse and enjoy your new partners, because you screwed up in 2011 and came out pretty well with solid additions. Now stop bitching, clean up your house and win some damn basketball games....especially against teams outside the league. As for what was said on this board in the past, Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul did all suck. It was all true. Now we are all one league and we want everyone to do well. Period. Nothing more.

It was the Pittsburgh Chancellor who advised Big East commissioner to turn down the ESPN TV deal (worth about 13 million per school) because they felt the Big East would have been worth more on the open market. Then Syracuse was invited to join the ACC and the debate was between Pittsburgh and UConn for the second spot, because of some bad blood between UConn and other ACC schools, Pittsburgh was chosen. Sometimes it is better to be lucky then good.

[Burrcats]

The Atlantic 10 has more ranked teams than the Big East. I find that funny.

[xavierj]

The Atlantic 10 has more ranked teams than the Big East. I find that funny.

I think rankings seem kind of funny and mean nothing. The fact Xavier isnt ranked is sort of silly if you really compare teams. Xavier has 4 losses two to ranked teams, 1 in OT and drilled UC.

[bleedXblue]

UC being 15th is laughable. What do they have...at least 5 wins over 250+ RPI teams? They have two decent wins. Their conference is so bad they may only lose another 2-3 games. I predict a very early exit for them in the tourney. They cant score the ball consistently enough.

Creighton losing 5 spots b/c of a road Big East loss is not fair. They're easily a Top 15 team.

[bleedXblue]

Add to the above, UC will play 15 games against teams with an RPI above 150 this year.

X is slated to play 5.


8 of UC's 16 wins so far are against 150+ RPI teams.

Seriously, I think the only thing most voters look at is the record. How about doing some homework?

[Burrcats]

UC being 15th is laughable. What do they have...at least 5 wins over 250+ RPI teams? They have two decent wins. Their conference is so bad they may only lose another 2-3 games. I predict a very early exit for them in the tourney. They cant score the ball consistently enough.

Creighton losing 5 spots b/c of a road Big East loss is not fair. They're easily a Top 15 team.

The American has 5 teams either ranked or receiving votes out of 10 teams. That means Cincinnati is playing 8 games against top competition. The Big East has 3 teams either ranked or receiving votes. That means Xavier is playing 4 games against top competition.

[Burrcats]

Add to the above, UC will play 15 games against teams with an RPI above 150 this year.

X is slated to play 5.


8 of UC's 16 wins so far are against 150+ RPI teams.

Seriously, I think the only thing most voters look at is the record. How about doing some homework?

Official NCAA RPI: Cincinnati 21 vs Xavier 24
KenPom: Cincinnati 22 vs Xavier 31
Sagarin: Cincinnati 23 vs Xavier 28
Massey: Cincinnati 20 vs Xavier 30 (which is a composite of many rankings dropping the highest and lowest)

Is Cincinnati overranked at 15? I would say probably. However, once you get ranked they aren't moving you down without a loss. It looks like based on these metrics that Xavier is properly ranked.

[Milhouse]

Honestly UC fans need to embrace the American. They would NEVER be ranked 15th in the Old Big East this year.

[The_Mack_Pack]

I'm not sure why we're arguing UC's ranking.. They've won 10 straight with a neutral court win over Pitt and a road win against Memphis. Everyone knows that you keep moving up by default if you don't lose, it's happened in Xavier's favor before and now it's happening in UC's favor. Are they the 15th best team? Probably not but they're definitely a team that should be ranked. If anything, it makes X look a lot better with UC being that highly ranked.

[bleedXblue]

The American has 5 teams either ranked or receiving votes out of 10 teams. That means Cincinnati is playing 8 games against top competition. The Big East has 3 teams either ranked or receiving votes. That means Xavier is playing 4 games against top competition.

And you just side stepped my entire premise. UC has A LOT of complete dung on their schedule. A couple of nice wins does not make for a ranking of 15.

I never argued that X should be ranked. Did I ?

[HoyaParanoia]

So that's you're response? No comment or defense of GTown's past arrogance?

Of course not....arrogant pricks don't recognize arrogance. It's a new day, buddy. Accept your situation, be happy with how it turned out and make it better.

BTW. Why doesn't GTown have a rivalry intercity game with GW like Xavier does with SucKS, oh Arrogant One?

Finally, I prefer to get my GTown takes from Casual Hoya.


Xavier has the most arrogant fans ive ever encountered. The words "flagship" and "elite" are thrown around constantly on this board. very rarely are any other programs given credit. hell, you guys still claim butler sucks and theyve played for the title twice.

this all coming from a program that has never even sniffed a national title. never more than 3 wins in the ncaa tournament...thats terrible.

[ammtd34]

Xavier has the most arrogant fans ive ever encountered. The words "flagship" and "elite" are thrown around constantly on this board. very rarely are any other programs given credit. hell, you guys still claim butler sucks and theyve played for the title twice.

this all coming from a program that has never even sniffed a national title. never more than 3 wins in the ncaa tournament...thats terrible.

This is terrible trolling. Boring, boring stuff.

[xubrew]

Xavier has the most arrogant fans ive ever encountered. The words "flagship" and "elite" are thrown around constantly on this board. very rarely are any other programs given credit. hell, you guys still claim butler sucks and theyve played for the title twice.

this all coming from a program that has never even sniffed a national title. never more than 3 wins in the ncaa tournament...thats terrible.

I think we fit right in you guys, Nova, Marquette and Butler.

There are plenty of arrogant fan bases in this league.

EDIT: Butler is actually more smug than arrogant, but still. They fit right in with that motif of fan-bases who love their program and think anyone who is a fan of another program and thinks that program is better is a complete fool.

[bleedXblue]

I think we fit right in you guys, Nova, Marquette and Butler.

There are plenty of arrogant fan bases in this league.

I never come across anyone successful in life, sport, business etc that wasnt a little "arrogant". Call it sell confidence.....doesnt matter.

Its laughable to claim that we are the "most" arrogant. Come on now.

[DC Muskie]

There are plenty of arrogant fan bases in this league.

No doubt. The arrogance in this league is pretty impressive actually.

[GoMuskies]

We all think the Pope can be infallible. Except Butler. And that's fine, because they're all going to hell anyway.

[fellahmuskie]

Thanks for the compliment, hoyaparanoia. Yes, I do in fact think that Xavier has the best program in college basketball and thank my lucky stars every morning when I wake up and every night when I go to sleep that my older brother started rooting for X in 1990 when, oh, incidentally, Xavier knocked Georgetown out of the tournament.

[XU 87]

[QUOTE=DC Muskie;423968]We won a title in 1958. Same number of national titles as GTown.


NIT? Get serious.

Little Brother, it is rare that anyone here talks about the 1958 NIT championship. It happened almost 56 years ago. In any event, and although that was before my time, the NIT was a big deal back then and according to Xavier historian WKRQ59, it was as big if not bigger than the NCAA back then due to being played in NYC and therefore getting the NYC media coverage. Winning the NIT in 1958 was winning a big national title. You seemed to have limited basketball knowledge so I thought I'd just let you know that.

As for calling us arrogant, I would plead guilty. You're allowed some arrogance when you win as much as we do.

But what is more arrogant? Xavier people on a Xavier message board talking about how great the program is? Or a Georgetown fan on a Xavier message board telling us how he hates the new league? (Actually, I think your actions are more assholish than arrogant).

[fellahmuskie]

I think Xavier fans are more than aware of where the program was back in the 70s and 80s...especially many on this board who began supporting the team in those years. But has any program in the country risen more steadily than Xavier since the early 1980s, with the peak nowhere in sight? We dominate every conference we join and I don't think the Big East will be an exception. Based on the last 30 years, it's only a matter of time before Xavier officially joins the elite of college basketball.

This may not happen, nothing is guaranteed, but why wouldn't a Xavier fan like me who is 26 years old expect anything other than Final Fours and a national championship in the next 10 years?

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Like i said earlier in the thread, I'm going to greatly enjoy hearing UC fans bitch when they receive a seed that is lower then what their ranking suggests they should get. Voters are rewarding them for beating up on the patsies that make up the majority of the AAC. Sadly for them they tourney committee doesn't buy into that crap. If you're going to play in a weak league you need to make up for it with a strong non conference schedule, something that Mick has never even heard of.

[waggy]

I just wish Semaj hadn't cramped up against Iowa. Just all part of the sneaking up on people plan I guess.

[bleedXblue]

I'm not sure why we're arguing UC's ranking.. They've won 10 straight with a neutral court win over Pitt and a road win against Memphis. Everyone knows that you keep moving up by default if you don't lose, it's happened in Xavier's favor before and now it's happening in UC's favor. Are they the 15th best team? Probably not but they're definitely a team that should be ranked. If anything, it makes X look a lot better with UC being that highly ranked.

I dont think the selection committee looks at rankings. I think they look at your RPI, your SOS etc.

UC doesnt deserve the ranking they have. I think they should be more between 25-30......

[GoMuskies]

Sorry Burr, but I see your true thoughts are on the Louisville board. So I'm gonna have to neg ya.

Burrcats Starter
Rating: 2.7/5 this site
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Nominate | ReportPosted: Today 12:29 PM

RE: Louisville #12 in AP poll (1 vote)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AAC: 3 ranked teams (12 UofL, 15 UC, 23 UM), 2 getting votes (SMU, UConn)
SEC: 2 ranked teams (6 Florida, 14 UK), 1 getting votes (Mizzou)
A10: 2 ranked teams (13 UMass, 19 St. Lou), 1 getting votes (GWU)
Big East: 1 ranked team (4 Villanova), 2 getting votes (Creighton, XU)- HAHAHA

All I can do is LOL at the Big East...

[XUOHTX]

Xavier has the most arrogant fans ive ever encountered. The words "flagship" and "elite" are thrown around constantly on this board. very rarely are any other programs given credit. hell, you guys still claim butler sucks and theyve played for the title twice.

this all coming from a program that has never even sniffed a national title. never more than 3 wins in the ncaa tournament...thats terrible.

Dude, its a Xavier message board. We're not going to come on here and trash our own team. Who do you think we are, Dayton?

Also, the "flagship" thing is kind of an inside joke (clearly you would be on the outside) referring to our dominance of our past two conferences. But since you brought it up, here is an arrogant and elitist image I created. Enjoy.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/DFleck/x-ship_zps6fc53927.jpg

[Patrick Bateman]

I dont think the selection committee looks at rankings. I think they look at your RPI, your SOS etc.

UC doesnt deserve the ranking they have. I think they should be more between 25-30......

Coaches poll has UC as #16

2-0 vs. top 25 - 1 neutral - 1 away

[Xavier]

I actually think UC deserves to be ranked. They have beaten two top 25 teams. But, I also think Creighton deserves to be ranked, and they would smoke UC.

[Milhouse]

I don't seen Louisville, UC, Memphis making it to the second weekend of Madness.

That said I could see Creighton and Nova, heck even X could sneak in there with the right matchups.

[The_Mack_Pack]

I actually think UC deserves to be ranked. They have beaten two top 25 teams. But, I also think Creighton deserves to be ranked, and they would smoke UC.

I wouldn't mind seeing UC and Creighton play in the NCAA tournament again.

[Burrcats]

I don't seen Louisville, UC, Memphis making it to the second weekend of Madness.

That said I could see Creighton and Nova, heck even X could sneak in there with the right matchups.

This is based on what? Just your opinion?

[Burrcats]

Sorry Burr, but I see your true thoughts are on the Louisville board. So I'm gonna have to neg ya.

Burrcats Starter
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Nominate | ReportPosted: Today 12:29 PM

RE: Louisville #12 in AP poll (1 vote)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AAC: 3 ranked teams (12 UofL, 15 UC, 23 UM), 2 getting votes (SMU, UConn)
SEC: 2 ranked teams (6 Florida, 14 UK), 1 getting votes (Mizzou)
A10: 2 ranked teams (13 UMass, 19 St. Lou), 1 getting votes (GWU)
Big East: 1 ranked team (4 Villanova), 2 getting votes (Creighton, XU)- HAHAHA

All I can do is LOL at the Big East...

Sure. It is just trolling anyways...

[Xavier]

Big East has top 5 team, and a team that ran 1st place AAC team off the court. Interesting.

[xubrew]

I never come across anyone successful in life, sport, business etc that wasnt a little "arrogant". Call it sell confidence.....doesnt matter.

Its laughable to claim that we are the "most" arrogant. Come on now.

Are you saying that we are arrogant, and that's good, or that we're not arrogant??

Xavier fans, and Marquette fans, and Nova fans, and Georgetown fans, and Butler fans are all people who love to tell everyone else how great their programs are. They're also the first to talk about how over-inflated someone else thinks their program is.

I'm not the one that said we were the "most" arrogant. Hoya said that. I'm merely saying that we fit right in with everyone else. Look at this thread. A Georgetown fan feels that Georgetown is too good for the league, and our fans are taken back that Georgetown wouldn't be anything other than thrilled to be in a league with us.

I actually think Marquette is the worst, but since they're having such a piss poor year, they've been quiet.

[XUPhilly04]

I think the big difference for this year is that we are playing teams with
strong fanbases who follow the program as much as us.

[DC Muskie]

All five Georgetown fans are arrogant, yes.

[xubrew]

All five Georgetown fans are arrogant, yes.

I thought the tally was 27 GW fans, 81 Georgetown fans, and 100k+ Maryland fans. You would know better than me, I guess.

The league is full of fanbases that love them some them. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with that. If anything, it keeps things interesting. I predicted that by the end of the second year we'd pretty much hate every team's fans in the league. I'd say we're right on schedule.

[DC Muskie]

Can we really hate Creighton fans? The ones I know are so nice.

And how can one really hate DePaul fans? That just seems mean.

[XUFan09]

Can we really hate Creighton fans? The ones I know are so nice.

And how can one really hate DePaul fans? That just seems mean.

Lol yeah.

[LA Muskie]

This is based on what? Just your opinion?

Well, given that it is a hypothetical, yes. Yes I think it's based on his opinion.

[xumuskies08]

Xavier has the most arrogant fans ive ever encountered. The words "flagship" and "elite" are thrown around constantly on this board. very rarely are any other programs given credit. hell, you guys still claim butler sucks and theyve played for the title twice.

this all coming from a program that has never even sniffed a national title. never more than 3 wins in the ncaa tournament...thats terrible.

I don't understand how one ventures onto an opposing message board, attacks the league and the team 99.9% of the message board users support and then gets upset when the fans defend their team...but then again, I'm not an asshole.

P.S. How does it feel looking up the standings at a program who sucks as much as Xavier does? Get used to it. Flagship.

[xumuskies08]

Well, given that it is a hypothetical, yes. Yes I think it's based on his opinion.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/21/3u3e8egu.jpg

[Cheesehead]

X smoked UC and they are 15th? The polls are not accurate for another few weeks

[Burrcats]

X smoked UC and they are 15th? The polls are not accurate for another few weeks

USC smoked Xavier, shouldn't they be getting more votes? Tennessee smoked Xavier too. Shouldn't they be getting more votes as well?

[BMoreX]

Up to 21 on LIVE RPI

[Juice]

USC smoked Xavier, shouldn't they be getting more votes? Tennessee smoked Xavier too. Shouldn't they be getting more votes as well?

Well if you really want to play that game, X also beat Tennessee earlier in the season. Granted one was at Cintas and the other was on a neutral court, but it kind of evens outs.

[Cheesehead]

How does Burrcats have a positive rating?

[XUPhilly04]

Well if you really want to play that game, X also beat Tennessee earlier in the season. Granted one was at Cintas and the other was on a neutral court, but it kind of evens outs.

Then, South Dakota State should be ranked ahead of #3 Mich. St. as Mich. St. lost to UNC, who lost Belmont, who lost to South Dakota State.

[DC Muskie]

Xavier is 15-1 in the United States.

[xubrew]

Xavier is 15-1 in the United States.

We now have fewer losses in the United States than Villanova does.

[LadyMuskie]

How does Burrcats have a positive rating?

Because, not unlike Mick Cronin after the brawl, people bought into his BS in his first dozen or so posts. Maybe now people will catch on. Maybe.