Mick is whining again..

[xubball1993]

Some priceless quotes:

Justin Jackson, “the most improved player in the country,’’ in Cronin’s estimation. An overachieving program, in a region of giants.

“I’m at a huge disadvantage. People my fans want me to beat, those guys leave practice and get on private planes, whenever they need to,’’ he says. “Rick Pitino, Thad Matta, John Calipari, even Chris Mack.’’

Cronin says he has turned down “million-dollar raises’’ each of the last three years, from schools wanting to hire him. First was North Carolina State, then Illinois and Minnesota. He offers this as more of a plea than a boast: I want to be here awhile. Help me out.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20140111/SPT0101/301110043/Doc-Mick-Cronin-needs-UC-fans-step-up

[OTRMUSKIE]

I think Mick is a perfect fit for UC and their fans better start to embrace him because if he leaves I am not sure they will get a better coach. I am not a huge fan of Mick but he has turned that program around and if the fans can't support that program they are doing themselves a huge injustice. UC has a good team this year and I hate that freaking school so if I say they are good then they must be good.

[Muskie]

Even Chris Mack has a private plane for recruiting..... Sour grapes

[XU-PA]

just saw the headline and summary, Mick says if he had a better arena he could recruit better players. I'm think the brass at UC is thinking, if we just have a better coach who could recruit better players we might actually have a reason to improve the bball facilities.
He's averaging just over 6300 per game 11 home games into the season. That's less than half the capacity of 5/3 arena. LESS THAN HALF!!!
8 home games left, he all 8 of those are sold out that will still only be an average of 9200 in an arena seating over 13000, or about 70%.
If you were a business, would you reward that kind of performance with new facilities worth tens of millions of dollars???
Fans in Cincinnati are fickle, you have to give them something entertaining to watch, UC basketball is not it right now.

[gladdenguy]

The American conference is perfect for them. They will dominate the conference and get back to making the NCAA tourney every year.
They might not even lose a game in conference this year. In the Big East they always finished in the bottom half. They have to love their new conference.

[Always Learning]

Just read PD’s column in Enquirer, and I’m stunned by it all.
If you haven’t, you need to.

PD quotes MOR’s favorite coach (Mic) as going all in that he wants (kinda demands) a new area. He says 5/3rd has hindered his program’s ability to recruit against osu, UK, UL, and yes, even the little brother across town.

He brags on his high RPI, highest UC has been under his eight year tenure, built on a W-L of patsies, although he has a nice win over Memphis and Pitt.

But a new arena? Lets see, UC has announced a renovation of Nippert Stadium at a price tag of $80 million --- provided they can raise that from boosters. Can’t see a drive for say $50 million to build a new BB arena. And, UC announced this past summer a $12 million shortfall in their athletic budget. That also has students in a uproar over a, “athletic fee” being levied for all students, full time, part time, night time, graduate, whatever.

He b*tches about the lact of fan (alumni) support since the average attendance at 5/3rd is less that half of capacity to come see his “over schievers” play. He just might take a look of playing programs other than Kennesaw State, UMass @ Lowell, USC-Upstate, Campbell.

And their gate attractions won’t get any better with Rutgers, South Florida, SMU, and UH. That is just the CUSA re-do, but without Louisville and Rutgers after this year.

I have no solutions for them. Let ‘em drown. But having said that, if I were in charge, I’d crawl on hands an knees over acres of crushed glass naked and beg the Big 12 to take me in … and I’d pay them a lot to do it.

With that, home football and basketball games vs Texas, Oklahoma, West Virginia, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Baylor et al would sell tickets … lots of them!!!

[xudash]

AL, I'm not nitpicking your post, because I agree with virtually everything you wrote, but I doubt $50mm would do it for a new facility on UC's campus.

Firstly, it's not 2000, it's 2014: construction costs have certainly gone up. Secondly, and more importantly, UC would want to build something with a capacity that is at least equal to what they have now with the 5/3 Arena. That will take more money.

UC has found itself in a terrible place. The conference realignment spinning wheel stopped spinning with them left on the outside looking in. It may spin again, but the new play-off system is coming on-line with things fairly settled at this point, as far as the five major conferences are concerned.

They may or may not dominate the AAC from here, but, even if they do, they'll be toiling in what everyone will perceive to be a non-major conference.

If you were writing about this years from now, you may conclude that it was all about being too little too late for UC. They got their football program moving in the right direction way too late, from an historical point of view (i.e. while the BCS already was firmly in motion), and they never found a way to address the very real shortcomings of Nippert. Contrast that to how UL entered the arms race fully to make themselves attractive enough to the ACC.

[WCWIII]

I'm not one to say anything negative about another program - there have been many positive things going on at UC over the last years. Most impressive progress with football, campus improvements, even post-Huggie basketball. As others have said, just not quite enough for it all to come together and get them into the ACC.

With that said, I do find it just a tad humorous that their 1/2 off Deal Chicken has sold a total of 11 tickets since Jan 2 ... and now comes this PD article. Maybe they should try a buy "1 get 6 free" campaign like a certain Men's clothier.

[UCGRAD4X]

Until UC plays someplace other than Nippert, they will NEVER be more than an occasional flash-in-the-pan in football…if that. And as long as that black whole sucks $$$$ from the Usuck's Athletics Dept. teat, their basketball program will not get what YTG is asking for. And they are never going to abandon Nippert. They might throw more and more money at it, further drying up the udder, but as long as they are on the present footprint - it ain't gonna happen!

Yet another reason ALL Cincinnati college basketball fans should follow a REAL program with a REAL future in a REAL conference playing in a REAL arena.

[Masterofreality]

I've been to Fifth Rate Arena a few times and it is not the disaster pit that the Jaundiced Leprechaun makes it out to be. It has a little age on it, but it's certainly not Cincy Garden-esque. Just another way that YTG excuses his second class status in town.

BTW. SucKS has over 200,000 alumni. I suppose that maybe one or two of them, just by chance, are successful. No one has a private jet that Sippin Mick can use?

What a baby.

[UCGRAD4X]

He could get a first class ticket on the WAMBULANCE to take him there.:lmao:

[X-band '01]

So Brad Johansen and Steve Wolf finally get to do a UC game together.

[Emp]

Hugs had a generous alum with a private turbo prop he could use about any time. I dated the pilot. It's very hard to believe Mick can't find one alum with a plane. Oh wait, that might require some charm and schmooze, which seemed to be in short supply.

MOR, with all due respect, half of the upper deck seats at 5/3 are behind the basket sideways, and you can't see shit.

Tearing down 5/3 in the middle of campus AND building a new facility would be a logistical and financial black hole. They,re stuck with it for the foreseeable.

[LA Muskie]

Just read PD’s column in Enquirer, and I’m stunned by it all.
If you haven’t, you need to.

PD quotes MOR’s favorite coach (Mic) as going all in that he wants (kinda demands) a new area. He says 5/3rd has hindered his program’s ability to recruit against osu, UK, UL, and yes, even the little brother across town.

He brags on his high RPI, highest UC has been under his eight year tenure, built on a W-L of patsies, although he has a nice win over Memphis and Pitt.

But a new arena? Lets see, UC has announced a renovation of Nippert Stadium at a price tag of $80 million --- provided they can raise that from boosters. Can’t see a drive for say $50 million to build a new BB arena. And, UC announced this past summer a $12 million shortfall in their athletic budget. That also has students in a uproar over a, “athletic fee” being levied for all students, full time, part time, night time, graduate, whatever.

He b*tches about the lact of fan (alumni) support since the average attendance at 5/3rd is less that half of capacity to come see his “over schievers” play. He just might take a look of playing programs other than Kennesaw State, UMass @ Lowell, USC-Upstate, Campbell.

And their gate attractions won’t get any better with Rutgers, South Florida, SMU, and UH. That is just the CUSA re-do, but without Louisville and Rutgers after this year.

I have no solutions for them. Let ‘em drown. But having said that, if I were in charge, I’d crawl on hands an knees over acres of crushed glass naked and beg the Big 12 to take me in … and I’d pay them a lot to do it.

With that, home football and basketball games vs Texas, Oklahoma, West Virginia, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Baylor et al would sell tickets … lots of them!!!
I agree with most of this except I don't think they need to increase (or even equal) 5/3's capacity. The trend is away from huge stadiums -- especially where the primary purpose is basketball. It's been so long since I've been in 5/3 (at least 17 years) that I don't remember it well. But I would imagine luxury boxes, concessions, amenities, and general fan experience improvement are far more important than adding seats to an arena they haven't consistently filled in over a decade.

[xudash]

I agree with most of this except I don't think they need to increase (or even equal) 5/3's capacity. The trend is away from huge stadiums -- especially where the primary purpose is basketball. It's been so long since I've been in 5/3 (at least 17 years) that I don't remember it well. But I would imagine luxury boxes, concessions, amenities, and general fan experience improvement are far more important than adding seats to an arena they haven't consistently filled in over a decade.

Fair point, but perception will play into it to some degree. To go from 13k to something smaller when you have over 35,000 students and aspirations for a bigger conference is somewhat of an admission about your appeal/fan base.

[OTRMUSKIE]

They have to have more than 200k alumni right? A school of 30k has had to graduated more than 200k, just asking. The only thing that sucks about 5/3 is sitting up high otherwise it's not that bad of place and it's only 25 years old. I am praying they can work with the city and get a deal,done to move basketball down to a renovated US Bank. I would think you could renovate that entire structure without tearing it down completely. Nothing a little red brick can't fix.

[Masterofreality]

They have to have more than 200k alumni right? A school of 30k has had to graduated more than 200k, just asking. The only thing that sucks about 5/3 is sitting up high otherwise it's not that bad of place and it's only 25 years old. I am praying they can work with the city and get a deal,done to move basketball down to a renovated US Bank. I would think you could renovate that entire structure without tearing it down completely. Nothing a little red brick can't fix.

If you Google The Borecat Alumni Association, they say 200,000. Of course, that may be all they will claim.....the rest are in jail.

[X-man]

I love how Mick the pr**k keeps talking about OSU, UK, and UofL as programs he could recruit against if he just had a consistent fan base and the use of a private jet, but then includes "even Chris Mack" with Matta, Calipari, and Pitino as coaches with access to said private plane. Does this mean that he believes that he can compete with Mack on the recruiting front even without a plane in spite of the ample evidence suggesting otherwise? Or is he just whining like he always does, while getting in a gratuitous slam of Xavier amidst his whining? No wonder he has no fan base. He is one dislikable SOB, and it is always someone else's fault for his many failings.

[Cheesehead]

I love how Mick the pr**k keeps talking about OSU, UK, and UofL as programs he could recruit against if he just had a consistent fan base and the use of a private jet, but then includes "even Chris Mack" with Matta, Calipari, and Pitino as coaches with access to said private plane. Does this mean that he believes that he can compete with Mack on the recruiting front even without a plane in spite of the ample evidence suggesting otherwise? Or is he just whining like he always does, while getting in a gratuitous slam of Xavier amidst his whining? No wonder he has no fan base. He is one dislikable SOB, and it is always someone else's fault for his many failings.

Yep...this.

[Juice]

I love how Mick the pr**k keeps talking about OSU, UK, and UofL as programs he could recruit against if he just had a consistent fan base and the use of a private jet, but then includes "even Chris Mack" with Matta, Calipari, and Pitino as coaches with access to said private plane. Does this mean that he believes that he can compete with Mack on the recruiting front even without a plane in spite of the ample evidence suggesting otherwise? Or is he just whining like he always does, while getting in a gratuitous slam of Xavier amidst his whining? No wonder he has no fan base. He is one dislikable SOB, and it is always someone else's fault for his many failings.

Even if he got a new arena and 10000 people a game, there is no way he is recruiting against OSU, UK, and Louisville. He's delusional.

[Fireball]

As much as Mick is a whiny little bitch, I do agree that he has some points. UC can't get more than 7,000 at a game, the Shoe is a dump, and the UC admin is very focused on football.

Mick has done one heck of a job re-building a problem that was left in shambled by the Huggins / Zimpher fiasco. One would think that he'd get a bit more more support from the school and fans.

[DC Muskie]

What an embarrassing article. He has to be the only coach on the planet who constantly bitches about everything. It's like he has no control over anything. If I had someone like that working for me, I'd fire their ass.

[X-man]

As much as Mick is a whiny little bitch, I do agree that he has some points. UC can't get more than 7,000 at a game, the Shoe is a dump, and the UC admin is very focused on football.

Mick has done one heck of a job re-building a problem that was left in shambled by the Huggins / Zimpher fiasco. One would think that he'd get a bit more more support from the school and fans.

Could part of the attendance problem be caused by the fact that Mick the d**k only schedules effectively HS-quality teams for the nonconference portion of uc's schedule?

[Fireball]

Could part of the attendance problem be caused by the fact that Mick the d**k only schedules effectively HS-quality teams for the nonconference portion of uc's schedule?

I would completely agree, but even some of the games against higher-quality opponents haven't drawn well.

In the past, though, the Big East conference schedule has drawn out a lot more fans than the pathetic non-conference, but that won't rescue their attendance this year.

[blobfan]

How many fundraising events and alumni schmoozing dinners does Mick attend? Is he involved in any community outreach programs or charitable work? Is he calling the Reds to do interviews in the offseason? What is he doing to build eminence off court aside from whining to the local media?

[LA Muskie]

I love how Mick the pr**k keeps talking about OSU, UK, and UofL as programs he could recruit against if he just had a consistent fan base and the use of a private jet, but then includes "even Chris Mack" with Matta, Calipari, and Pitino as coaches with access to said private plane. Does this mean that he believes that he can compete with Mack on the recruiting front even without a plane in spite of the ample evidence suggesting otherwise? Or is he just whining like he always does, while getting in a gratuitous slam of Xavier amidst his whining? No wonder he has no fan base. He is one dislikable SOB, and it is always someone else's fault for his many failings.
I don't think it was a "slam" on Xavier. I think it was the exact opposite in fact. Not sure how you could read it otherwise.

[blobfan]

I don't think it was a "slam" on Xavier. I think it was the exact opposite in fact. Not sure how you could read it otherwise.

I read it as "even the coach of that little school across town that isn't nearly as important as us gets to fly on private jets to recruit, even though he's nowhere near the caliber of UofL, et al." Or if you prefer "I'm more important than he is! **stomps foot** Why can't I get a private jet? WAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!"

[bleedXblue]

3 for sure things in life. Death, taxes and Cronin bitching.

[coasterville95]

Cronin is calculating when he whines. He can't come right out and say we out recruit him, as that would point the finger back at him for being a bad recruiter given he has the same pool of candidates, same geographic area, etc.

But he threw in "Even Chris Mack" as a way to incite the fan base (all 500 of them) to be outraged that his school isn't offering him near the perks that our school offers our coach. Not that if be upset if every recruiting trip to the east coast Cronin goes on changes planes in Newark, easily the worst airport east of the Mississippi.

From what I recall, the last time they were talking new arena (end of the Huggins era) they wanted something along the lines of Conseco Fieldhouse, which is like a triple deck Cintas Center. Thought I heard about 18,000 seats and all the modern fan amenities, like indoor restrooms!

Too bad for Cronin, football drives the bus at UC. They so desperately want, need actually, to get into a real football conference that he can forget about a new arena. If he's lucky they will continue to provide clean crying towels every game.

[LadyMuskie]

What an embarrassing article. He has to be the only coach on the planet who constantly bitches about everything. It's like he has no control over anything. If I had someone like that working for me, I'd fire their ass.

Definitely. He has some valid points (while The Shoe may not be falling down, it's a horrible place to watch anything, much less basketball and can't compete with modern, first-class arenas), but he bitches about every single little thing so he can't be taken seriously about the real complaints. He's like the boy who cried wolf, only he's just bitching. No one is paying attention anymore because he's just once again bitching and moaning.

The longer Mick is around the more he makes Huggins look like Ghandi.

[X-man]

I don't think it was a "slam" on Xavier. I think it was the exact opposite in fact. Not sure how you could read it otherwise.

I might read it otherwise if he had used the word "even" with respect to the other coaches he claims he can't recruit against. But using it the way he did is clearly a dig at the little school that has no business supplying its coach a private jet to help him (out)recruit poor little Mickey.

[XU '11]

I might read it otherwise if he had used the word "even" with respect to the other coaches he claims he can't recruit against. But using it the way he did is clearly a dig at the little school that has no business supplying its coach a private jet to help him (out)recruit poor little Mickey.

I think the only implication was that Xavier program is not on the same level as IU, UK and Ohio State. I'm a lifelong Xavier fan, but even I admit that is 100% true.

[bjf123]

I might read it otherwise if he had used the word "even" with respect to the other coaches he claims he can't recruit against. But using it the way he did is clearly a dig at the little school that has no business supplying its coach a private jet to help him (out)recruit poor little Mickey.

Or, it's a dig at his administration and fan base for not being able to provide the same recruiting "tools" as little ol' Xavier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[Kahns Krazy]

What an embarrassing article. He has to be the only coach on the planet who constantly bitches about everything. It's like he has no control over anything. If I had someone like that working for me, I'd fire their ass.

Honestly. The fans that used to be in those empty seats caught on to this a while ago.


Could part of the attendance problem be caused by the fact that Mick the d**k only schedules effectively HS-quality teams for the nonconference portion of uc's schedule?

Even the Big O got fed up with the schedule and stopped showing up for the non-conference portion.


I don't think it was a "slam" on Xavier. I think it was the exact opposite in fact. Not sure how you could read it otherwise.

I'm not sure what you thing the use of the word "even" was in there for. It was intended as a slam.

I can't stand Mick. I can't stand that the media gives him a pass for creating the exact situation he's bitching about. He whines about everything except his own ineptitude.

I also can't stand that they are playing good basketball this year. If Mick isn't in the sweet 16 this year, he underachieved with the team he has.

[gladdenguy]

sUCks is up to #19. They have a cake walk the next 2 weeks. I would think they get no less(5-12) than a 4 seed come tourney time because the AAC is so bad.
I wouldn't be surprised if they get to a 2 or 3 seed line. From a basketball standpoint the AAC is the best thing that could have happened to them.

[GoMuskies]

From a basketball standpoint the AAC is the best thing that could have happened to them.

Must feel like old times! Next year for UC the AAC will be C-USA minus all the other teams that used to be good in that league (Charlotte, Louisville, Marquette, SLU). Memphis had a few decent C-USA teams, but not too many.

[PM Thor]

UC is ranked #19, and the fans still don't show up. Hilarious. Little Mick has to come to the realization that his basketball program will ALWAYS play second fiddle to their football program. That's just the way it is, and he better figure out that bitchin' about his arena and travel budget isn't going to help him get those things upgraded.

[xudash]

UC is ranked #19, and the fans still don't show up. Hilarious. Little Mick has to come to the realization that his basketball program will ALWAYS play second fiddle to their football program. That's just the way it is, and he better figure out that bitchin' about his arena and travel budget isn't going to help him get those things upgraded.

When a basketball program plays second fiddle to a football program of that stature, the basketball program has serious, serious issues facing it.

UC was always a basketball school. They tried to get caught up in the BCS Currency Society and have found themselves in a rather fabulous train wreck as a result of trying to make the club.

And I still do not understand the nature of the Nippert renovation.

[Burrcats]

Honestly. The fans that used to be in those empty seats caught on to this a while ago.

Even the Big O got fed up with the schedule and stopped showing up for the non-conference portion.



This year Cincinnati's OOC SOS was #155, by comparison Xavier's was #117. I chalk up the difference in that Xavier had the opportunity to play in a pre-season tournament that afforded them 3 top 100 RPI games while Cincinnati did not. If UC was in a similar tournament this year, I would bet the OOC's would be similar. For the first time in Mick's tenure, he actually was able to come up with a good schedule that included the "top" mid-majors like USC-Upstate, Middle Tennessee St and NC Central all of whom are top 150ish RPI teams along with four well known teams in New Mexico, Xavier, Pittsburgh and NC State. To be honest, most UC fans are ignorant to this...



I also can't stand that they are playing good basketball this year. If Mick isn't in the sweet 16 this year, he underachieved with the team he has.

Coming into this season, I saw them as a bubble team probably around a 7-10 seed primarily because so many new faces were being counted on to score. I have been pleasantly surprised with how the younger players have looked. With how inefficient the offense can be, I would put the realistic ceiling as Sweet 16 but I will just enjoy the ride for now.
sUCks is up to #19. They have a cake walk the next 2 weeks. I would think they get no less(5-12) than a 4 seed come tourney time because the AAC is so bad.
I wouldn't be surprised if they get to a 2 or 3 seed line. From a basketball standpoint the AAC is the best thing that could have happened to them.

I think what is forgotten is the fact that Cronin had to rebuild the program in one of the most difficult college basketball leagues of all time. It isn't really fair to say the Big East was good or bad for Cincinnati because UC didn't get to full strength for the first 3 years. The last 4 years in the Big East Cincinnati went:

7-11; 11th place: Made NIT
11-7; 7th place: Made NCAA tournament
12-6; 4th place: Made NCAA tournament and Sweet 16
9-9; 9th place: Made NCAA tournament

It is fun to think what would have happened if Cincinnati entered the Big East with Bob Huggins as it's coach. I believe the program would have gotten much more media coverage,more "prime time" games (which they didn't get until last year) and more respect among the coaches. Let's face it, Mick Cronin is no where near the larger than life figure Huggins was and that certainly hurt the program early on in the Big East.

[Xavier]

Fun to think about? Why? I never understand UC fans love of Huggins...in his last 12 years at UC, he went to the sweet16 (or beyond) just two times. (one sweet 16, one elite 8). In his last 9 seasons at UC, he went to one sweet 16. Nothing about that screams success with huggins in the BE.

About the team this year- the fans showed up to the game against Rutgers. Saw a tweet saying they had 10,000+ at the game. I consider that showing up. However, this style, IMO, doesn't bode well for tournament success. Need to be able to score the ball more consistently. UC being ranked only helps Xavier...having said that, I don't see how UC fans think the game would be much different if played today. Xaviers game plan won the game and would again.

[GuyFawkes38]

This article is embarrassing for all involved (Mick, UC administration, UC boosters and alumni). Yikes. Just not very classy.

[xu2002]

This year Cincinnati's OOC SOS was #155, by comparison Xavier's was #117. I chalk up the difference in that Xavier had the opportunity to play in a pre-season tournament that afforded them 3 top 100 RPI games while Cincinnati did not. If UC was in a similar tournament this year, I would bet the OOC's would be similar. For the first time in Mick's tenure, he actually was able to come up with a good schedule that included the "top" mid-majors like USC-Upstate, Middle Tennessee St and NC Central all of whom are top 150ish RPI teams along with four well known teams in New Mexico, Xavier, Pittsburgh and NC State. To be honest, most UC fans are ignorant to this...

Not sure where those SOS #'s are coming from, but according to RPI forecast, they note the following:

XU - OOC SOS: 34 Overall: 17
UC - OOC SOS: 135 Overall: 82

[danaandvictory]

Ken Pom has X's OOC SOS as 155 and UC's as 314.

[Burrcats]

Fun to think about? Why? I never understand UC fans love of Huggins...in his last 12 years at UC, he went to the sweet16 (or beyond) just two times. (one sweet 16, one elite 8). In his last 9 seasons at UC, he went to one sweet 16. Nothing about that screams success with huggins in the BE.

About the team this year- the fans showed up to the game against Rutgers. Saw a tweet saying they had 10,000+ at the game. I consider that showing up. However, this style, IMO, doesn't bode well for tournament success. Need to be able to score the ball more consistently. UC being ranked only helps Xavier...having said that, I don't see how UC fans think the game would be much different if played today. Xaviers game plan won the game and would again.


Fun to think about? Why? I never understand UC fans love of Huggins...in his last 12 years at UC, he went to the sweet16 (or beyond) just two times. (one sweet 16, one elite 8). In his last 9 seasons at UC, he went to one sweet 16. Nothing about that screams success with huggins in the BE.

About the team this year- the fans showed up to the game against Rutgers. Saw a tweet saying they had 10,000+ at the game. I consider that showing up. However, this style, IMO, doesn't bode well for tournament success. Need to be able to score the ball more consistently. UC being ranked only helps Xavier...having said that, I don't see how UC fans think the game would be much different if played today. Xaviers game plan won the game and would again.

Hmm...comparing entering the second season in the Big East with 2 scholarship players vs having an established coach who was going to land both Bill Walker (was going where Huggins went) and Michael Beasley (he hired Beasley's AAU coach). Seems quite simple. Not to mention, he then went to WVU and made the Final Four and two Sweet 16's.

As for the match up between the two, there is no way of knowing if it would have been the same result. I just ran 100 simulations on this SITE (http://www.scacchoops.com/GameSimulator.asp) and here are the results:

Matchup Simulation Stats

This game has been simulated 100 times.
Cincinnati (2014) has won 34 times (34.0%), won by > 20 pts 4 times (4.0%)
Xavier (2014) has won 66 times (66.0%), won by > 20 pts 11 times (11.0%)
The average score is Cincinnati (2014): 65.4 - Xavier (2014): 70.4, decided by < 5 pts 32 times (32.0%)
The game has gone into overtime 4 times (4.0%)

[Burrcats]

Not sure where those SOS #'s are coming from, but according to RPI forecast, they note the following:

XU - OOC SOS: 34 Overall: 17
UC - OOC SOS: 135 Overall: 82

I got the numbers from ESPN's RPI page.

[paulxu]

I got the numbers from ESPN's RPI page.

They do some really weird stuff there, and even though they say they follow RPI, I don't believe it.
Plus, Lunardi runs it; and he has a column call "Lunardi's RPI."
And in that column, Wichita State has a Lunardi RPI of 332. So I'm sure this stuff is really valid.

[Burrcats]

They do some really weird stuff there, and even though they say they follow RPI, I don't believe it.
Plus, Lunardi runs it; and he has a column call "Lunardi's RPI."
And in that column, Wichita State has a Lunardi RPI of 332. So I'm sure this stuff is really valid.

RPI forecast uses the expected OOC SOS. For example NC Central (one of UC's opponents) currently has an RPI of 105 but RPI-forecast projects their RPI to be 153 at the end of the season. So currently, that nearly 50 spot difference is positively effecting UC's SOS which is why ESPN has a better number than Live-RPI.com. That is my guess at least.

[Kahns Krazy]

This year Cincinnati's OOC SOS was #155, by comparison Xavier's was #117..

Not sure where you got your numbers but CBS says UC is #135 and X is #34.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/sos/2013-14



Those numbers move as the teams continue their conference schedules. UC had the #168 in 12-13 #285 in 11-12. That is pathetic

Fans don't want to pay to watch a whole bought-win schedule.

I don't feel like spending the time to look it up, but my guess is the year UC was 13-18 they were putting more butts in seats because they were playing a good schedule.

[X-band '01]

Must feel like old times! Next year for UC the AAC will be C-USA minus all the other teams that used to be good in that league (Charlotte, Louisville, Marquette, SLU). Memphis had a few decent C-USA teams, but not too many.

I was thinking more of the Great Midwest (sans Louisville), but it's relatively the same.

[xubrew]

Abilene Christian not being counted as a div1 team has really boosted Xavier's schedule.

UC is perhaps the most unsupported top 25 team in basketball history. That's what kills me. The team IS good, and no one cares.

I don't blame Mick for being frustrated, but it still comes off as embarrassing.

[LA Muskie]

I might read it otherwise if he had used the word "even" with respect to the other coaches he claims he can't recruit against. But using it the way he did is clearly a dig at the little school that has no business supplying its coach a private jet to help him (out)recruit poor little Mickey.
Maybe this is just one of those glass half full/half empty situations. I didn't see it as a dig on Xavier. I saw him trying to get himself access to a private plane and noting that all of his primary competitors on the recruiting trail -- EVEN his crosstown rival -- have that access and therefore he is at a disadvantage.

Private jet travel is not universal in college basketball. Mick knows that and the UC Board knows that. So he was making his best case.

[MHettel]

I'm not sure where you get all of your SOS and RPI numbers, but on December 14, 2013 Xavier WHIPPED THAT ASS by a score of 64-47. Don't need to know much more beyond that.

[Kahns Krazy]

Abilene Christian not being counted as a div1 team has really boosted Xavier's schedule.

UC is perhaps the most unsupported top 25 team in basketball history. That's what kills me. The team IS good, and no one cares.

I don't blame Mick for being frustrated, but it still comes off as embarrassing.

I do blame Mick, because it is 100% Mick's fault that the fans don't come to the games. Yes, he has a good team this year, but he's run so many crappy teams out on the home floor that the fans got tired of it. Combine that with a different economic reality and tons of competing ways to spend money, and your fans have moved on.


Maybe this is just one of those glass half full/half empty situations. I didn't see it as a dig on Xavier. I saw him trying to get himself access to a private plane and noting that all of his primary competitors on the recruiting trail -- EVEN his crosstown rival -- have that access and therefore he is at a disadvantage.

Private jet travel is not universal in college basketball. Mick knows that and the UC Board knows that. So he was making his best case.

If Mick had never made chippy comments in Mack's direction, I would give him the benefit of the doubt, but this is just part of the asshole that is Mick Cronin. He can't possibly ever speak to the media without a slight to Mack.

[gladdenguy]

If Mick had never made chippy comments in Mack's direction, I would give him the benefit of the doubt, but this is just part of the asshole that is Mick Cronin. He can't possibly ever speak to the media without a slight to Mack.

This is what pisses me off more than anything as well. He is so f*%ken insecure and tries to slight Xavier and Mack in every way he can. Meanwhile Xavier whoops his ass on the court, in the stands, and in the NCAA tournament. Gettin old Mickey.

Mack is a total professional about everything sUCks related. Mickey, on the other hand, is why most sUCks bandwagon jumpers don't come watch his teams. Another reason might be because his teams can't score the ball. Defense can only be so much fun.

[vee4xu]

It seems interesting to me that with X being in the middle of its first BE season, having just played Marquette and Creighton and getting ready to play Georgetown, that a Mick Cronin thread is running the hottest of any in the Men's Basketball Forum. I don't mean to make this point as criticism. More an observation. It doesn't matter, because people are going post on threads that most interest them. But, that this thread is so popular given midseason makes this pretty much a shoulder shrugger for me.

[GoMuskies]

I'm capable of discussing Creighton and Georgetown while laughing at Mick at the same time. I try to mix in a little bit of work, too.

[Kahns Krazy]

It was a front page story on Cincinnati.com over the weekend, not a huge surprise that it has created local discussion.

[OH.X.MI]

My two-cent's... Don't think Mick is totally in the wrong here. Not gonna go into arenas, cost of supporting athletic programs, or any of that stuff, just fan support. I grew up in Michigan surrounded by MSU and U of M fans. Attended a good amount of football and bball games at both Universities. Graduated from X last year and I am now at UC for some postgrad education. The first thing I noticed this fall semester around UC’s campus was the total lack of student enthusiasm about their athletics, which I think translates into the UC alumni community. Compared to X, MSU, and U of M it's startling how indifferent UC students are about their sports. I get lunch in UC’s Student Union nearly every day and not once have I heard undergrads talking about their basketball or football team. Go to Gallagher any day of the week and you’re bound to overhear kids talking endlessly about the basketball team… same goes for any popular student establishment at MSU or U of M.
As a Xavier fan I like to joke about UC as much as anyone, their joke of a conference, out of conference schedule, whiny coaches, and everything else. But objectively speaking, their basketball program is a relatively historic program. It shocks me how the student and alumni cannot fill a stadium. I mean for god sake they are ranked 19th in the AP. How are they not more excited? Maybe it’s something in the Clifton water? I don’t know. Anyway, my two-cents as someone who has experienced both UC and XU as a student.

[Masterofreality]

Maybe this is just one of those glass half full/half empty situations. I didn't see it as a dig on Xavier. I saw him trying to get himself access to a private plane and noting that all of his primary competitors on the recruiting trail -- EVEN his crosstown rival -- have that access and therefore he is at a disadvantage.

Private jet travel is not universal in college basketball. Mick knows that and the UC Board knows that. So he was making his best case.

It was a dig. Why didn't he just say "Thad Matta, Calapari, Chris Mack etc. and many other coaches" without the "even"?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! EVEN Xavier gets a private jet.......

[Kahns Krazy]

My two-cent's... Don't think Mick is totally in the wrong here. Not gonna go into arenas, cost of supporting athletic programs, or any of that stuff, just fan support. I grew up in Michigan surrounded by MSU and U of M fans. Attended a good amount of football and bball games at both Universities. Graduated from X last year and I am now at UC for some postgrad education. The first thing I noticed this fall semester around UC’s campus was the total lack of student enthusiasm about their athletics, which I think translates into the UC alumni community. Compared to X, MSU, and U of M it's startling how indifferent UC students are about their sports. I get lunch in UC’s Student Union nearly every day and not once have I heard undergrads talking about their basketball or football team. Go to Gallagher any day of the week and you’re bound to overhear kids talking endlessly about the basketball team… same goes for any popular student establishment at MSU or U of M.
As a Xavier fan I like to joke about UC as much as anyone, their joke of a conference, out of conference schedule, whiny coaches, and everything else. But objectively speaking, their basketball program is a relatively historic program. It shocks me how the student and alumni cannot fill a stadium. I mean for god sake they are ranked 19th in the AP. How are they not more excited? Maybe it’s something in the Clifton water? I don’t know. Anyway, my two-cents as someone who has experienced both UC and XU as a student.

When Huggins was there, that was not the case. What is the difference? (Hint: It rhymes with "Dick Foamin")

[danaandvictory]

You know, if Cronin wanted to leave UC and coach somewhere else I'm pretty sure he could. So why just continue bitching and moaning about your current job when you can apparently get another one?

[xu2002]

It was a dig. Why didn't he just say "Thad Matta, Calapari, Chris Mack etc. and many other coaches" without the "even"?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! EVEN Xavier gets a private jet.......

Let him take all the digs and bitch and moan all he wants. He can complain to the person next to him on his next Delta flight to go recruiting.

[danaandvictory]

Let him take all the digs and bitch and moan all he wants. He can complain to the person next to him on his next Delta flight to go recruiting.

I have some sympathy, the overhead compartment on commercial flights is pretty cramped.

[Kahns Krazy]

You know, if Cronin wanted to leave UC and coach somewhere else I'm pretty sure he could. So why just continue bitching and moaning about your current job when you can apparently get another one?

I don't believe that he can, at least not for the kind of money he claims he could.

[muskienick]

I have some sympathy, the overhead compartment on commercial flights is pretty cramped. And Mick has trouble reaching up that high!

I think you may have forgotten the part added to your quote.

[xubrew]

I said this in another thread, but Memphis and UC should have to swap programs.

UC is good and is grossly under-supported.

Memphis is overrated and over-supported.

The two should swap. It only seems fair.

[chico]

Heck, if Amazon can ship packages by drone why doesn't UC just use them to fly little Mick around.

[Tardy Turtle]

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/513/mvhr.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/401/6zp9.jpg

[XUFan09]

I have some sympathy, the overhead compartment on commercial flights is pretty cramped.

Zing!

[LA Muskie]

It was a dig. Why didn't he just say "Thad Matta, Calapari, Chris Mack etc. and many other coaches" without the "even"?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! EVEN Xavier gets a private jet.......

If it was a dig it was a really really bad one. Sort of like saying "even Mack has a hot wife so why don't I?"

And if we take offense to such a bad dig then we are pretty damn thin-skinned in these parts.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not offended as I consider the source, but it's definitely a dig. Saying "even So and So has a hot wife" means you think So and So is not worthy of having a hot wife (outkicked coverage). Not exactly a stinging criticism, but it's generally not a compliment to So and So.

[Kahns Krazy]

If it was a dig it was a really really bad one. Sort of like saying "even Mack has a hot wife so why don't I?"

And if we take offense to such a bad dig then we are pretty damn thin-skinned in these parts.

It's because of the consistency with which Mick takes little pot shots at Xavier. It may be less obvious being out of market, but Mick has never missed an opportunity to slight Xavier or Mack, even when it is completely unrelated or unnecessary, like this one.

It also, in my opinion, is one of the contributing factors to the fight. You can't tell me that Mack wasn't loving beating the shit out of Cronin's team after all the shit Mick says in the media. It's why we still had starters on the floor at the end of that game.

[XUBBall644]

I agree that MC frequently tosses out digs at Xavier, some subtle and others more overt. Mack to his credit never does this. In fact in his press conference after the Marquette game he did the opposite. He mentioned that Semaj gained increased confidence in his teammates while sitting on the bench in the UC game and watching them increase the lead against a team as good as UC, thus complimenting rather than disparaging UC.

[RealDeal]

Mick is a massive douche, I would think that even posters like LA Muskie could see that.

[Titanxman04]

I agree that MC frequently tosses out digs at Xavier, some subtle and others more overt. Mack to his credit never does this. In fact in his press conference after the Marquette game he did the opposite. He mentioned that Semaj gained increased confidence in his teammates while sitting on the bench in the UC game and watching them increase the lead against a team as good as UC, thus complimenting rather than disparaging UC.

Some people have tact and others don't. I think Mack understands how words come out and how people can itnerpret how they are said a lot better than what Mick does. Mick Cronin doesn't get it. I have a co-worker who, while I know intends to be helpful, is incredibly condescending and disrespectful. She doesn't mean to be, but her tone and how she puts things is incredibly infuriating to work with. I think Mick and her should get together. They'd have a wonderful set of kids who do nothing but belittle and complain.

[paulxu]

Not only did I outkick the coverage...they still haven't caught the ball over 45 years later.

[chico]

If it was a dig it was a really really bad one. Sort of like saying "even Mack has a hot wife so why don't I?"

And if we take offense to such a bad dig then we are pretty damn thin-skinned in these parts.

I sincerely doubt anyone takes serious offense to anything that little guy says. It's more for entertainment value than anything.

[LA Muskie]

I'm not offended as I consider the source, but it's definitely a dig. Saying "even So and So has a hot wife" means you think So and So is not worthy of having a hot wife (outkicked coverage). Not exactly a stinging criticism, but it's generally not a compliment to So and So.
OK, well I retract my prior statement about inferring a dig. Clearly some (maybe most) read it that way. I see it as jealousy more than anything else. But maybe that's because I'm out of market and don't get a full flavor for the relationship. I'm not a Mick fan by any stretch. But honestly aside from the annual Crosstown tilt I don't give him a second thought.

[LA Muskie]

Mick is a massive douche, I would think that even posters like LA Muskie could see that.
I probably don't pay enough attention to the little leprechaun to notice. Or care. :)

[blobfan]

My two-cent's... Don't think Mick is totally in the wrong here. Not gonna go into arenas, cost of supporting athletic programs, or any of that stuff, just fan support. I grew up in Michigan surrounded by MSU and U of M fans. Attended a good amount of football and bball games at both Universities. Graduated from X last year and I am now at UC for some postgrad education. The first thing I noticed this fall semester around UC’s campus was the total lack of student enthusiasm about their athletics, which I think translates into the UC alumni community. Compared to X, MSU, and U of M it's startling how indifferent UC students are about their sports. I get lunch in UC’s Student Union nearly every day and not once have I heard undergrads talking about their basketball or football team. Go to Gallagher any day of the week and you’re bound to overhear kids talking endlessly about the basketball team… same goes for any popular student establishment at MSU or U of M.
As a Xavier fan I like to joke about UC as much as anyone, their joke of a conference, out of conference schedule, whiny coaches, and everything else. But objectively speaking, their basketball program is a relatively historic program. It shocks me how the student and alumni cannot fill a stadium. I mean for god sake they are ranked 19th in the AP. How are they not more excited? Maybe it’s something in the Clifton water? I don’t know. Anyway, my two-cents as someone who has experienced both UC and XU as a student.
From your standpoint on the ground, how much might that have to do with the coach? Winning isn't everything when it comes to getting people interested at the college level. Most people I hear talk about how much they love attending games also talk about loyalty to the coach. I seem to remember people getting fired up about Brian Kelly before he started winning. He made a lot of public appearances. Mack did that even before his first official day as coach and it made me more inclined to attend games. In the middle of a rough season Miller met with the XFans to try to engage them more and to an extant it worked.

How much is Mick whining about something he himself could change if he simply tried to engage the public?

I don't believe that he can, at least not for the kind of money he claims he could.

That struck me too. Did he turn down multi-million dollar offers or did he tell schools that might have sniffed in his direction that he was not interested before they even seriously considered him?

[X-man]

OK, well I retract my prior statement about inferring a dig. Clearly some (maybe most) read it that way. I see it as jealousy more than anything else. But maybe that's because I'm out of market and don't get a full flavor for the relationship. I'm not a Mick fan by any stretch. But honestly aside from the annual Crosstown tilt I don't give him a second thought.

Neither do the rest of us, frankly. But we have to read what the local shills write about him periodically in that local rag that pretends to be newspaper, and his consistent petty small-mindedness tend to pop him back into people's thought on those occasions.

[blobfan]

Or when we get a recap of games UC played 3 days ago along with a preview of the game coming up in 5 days but nothing is mentioned of the X game yesterday or the one scheduled in 2 days. We get dismissed often enough by the local media that we don't need the little pisher across town adding to it.

[OH.X.MI]

From your standpoint on the ground, how much might that have to do with the coach?

Very good point. Didn't think of it that way. But then again, I don't exactly hear a lot of bearcat fans publicly complaining about Cronin... there just seems to be indifference. Guess the little man doesn't inspire anything be it excitement or dissatisfaction.

[Burrcats]

My two-cent's... Don't think Mick is totally in the wrong here. Not gonna go into arenas, cost of supporting athletic programs, or any of that stuff, just fan support. I grew up in Michigan surrounded by MSU and U of M fans. Attended a good amount of football and bball games at both Universities. Graduated from X last year and I am now at UC for some postgrad education. The first thing I noticed this fall semester around UC’s campus was the total lack of student enthusiasm about their athletics, which I think translates into the UC alumni community. Compared to X, MSU, and U of M it's startling how indifferent UC students are about their sports. I get lunch in UC’s Student Union nearly every day and not once have I heard undergrads talking about their basketball or football team. Go to Gallagher any day of the week and you’re bound to overhear kids talking endlessly about the basketball team… same goes for any popular student establishment at MSU or U of M.
As a Xavier fan I like to joke about UC as much as anyone, their joke of a conference, out of conference schedule, whiny coaches, and everything else. But objectively speaking, their basketball program is a relatively historic program. It shocks me how the student and alumni cannot fill a stadium. I mean for god sake they are ranked 19th in the AP. How are they not more excited? Maybe it’s something in the Clifton water? I don’t know. Anyway, my two-cents as someone who has experienced both UC and XU as a student.

Cincinnati fans have responded: 10,800 fans on Saturday against a 7-9 team and now 9,864 on a Tuesday at 9pm against a 5-10 team. Whatever he did it worked.

The truth is a lot of the students who entered starting around '07 and '08 who are from up north (either Columbus or Cleveland) think UC is a football school because of how putrid the basketball team while the football team was simultaneously 1 missed FG away from a National Title game. Hopefully the tide is turning back as I have little interest in UC football.

[Milhouse]

I'm sorry I'm tired of the UC is a football school argument. Have they even sold out 5 games since 2007?

Football schools sell out every single game. Also when they sell out a game they have to sell out about 80,000+ seats. Not 35,000.

I'm sure bball will be fine. I don't think cronins a very good coach but he will get them to the tournament every year in the aac, but i'd argue they still haven't been tested very much.

[Kahns Krazy]

Cincinnati fans have responded: 10,800 fans on Saturday against a 7-9 team and now 9,864 on a Tuesday at 9pm against a 5-10 team. Whatever he did it worked.

The truth is a lot of the students who entered starting around '07 and '08 who are from up north (either Columbus or Cleveland) think UC is a football school because of how putrid the basketball team while the football team was simultaneously 1 missed FG away from a National Title game. Hopefully the tide is turning back as I have little interest in UC football.

You are chest thumping about 75% capacity crowds for a top 20 team? That is sad.

I go to UC football games. The "football school" argument is dumber than Mick's fake inner city accent.

[XU '11]

Cincinnati fans have responded: 10,800 fans on Saturday against a 7-9 team and now 9,864 on a Tuesday at 9pm against a 5-10 team. Whatever he did it worked.

The truth is a lot of the students who entered starting around '07 and '08 who are from up north (either Columbus or Cleveland) think UC is a football school because of how putrid the basketball team while the football team was simultaneously 1 missed FG away from a National Title game. Hopefully the tide is turning back as I have little interest in UC football.

A+ for UC realizing the real market value of their tickets. Dirt cheap...

The University of Cincinnati Bearcats Men’s Basketball team has held 24 consecutive opponents to under 70 points, the longest current active streak in the country, and wants you to join them in Fifth Third Arena to keep the streak alive at home games this season. Do you believe in the Bearcats defense? From today until Saturday, February 1, purchase upper level bleacher seats to all of the Bearcats remaining home games for only $70. As long as the defensive streak continues at home, you will receive $10 per game in ticket credit each time the Bearcats hold their opponent under 70 points that can be applied to 2014-15 Men’s Basketball ticket packages.

So essentially if UC holds all of their remaining home opponents under 70 points this season, your tickets will have been free since you get $70 credited towards next year's tickets.

[GoMuskies]

So essentially if UC holds all of their remaining home opponents under 70 points this season, your tickets will have been free since you get $70 credited towards next year's tickets.

I think you still will have overpaid. Maybe if they threw in a few beers.

[golfitup]

The UC attendance woes continues to amaze me. UC has so many more fans than X and still can't come close to selling out their place with has proven to be a good team this season. Why aren't people going to the games?

[danaandvictory]

The UC attendance woes continues to amaze me. UC has so many more fans than X and still can't come close to selling out their place with has proven to be a good team this season. Why aren't people going to the games?

UC in the 90s was never about basketball, it was about the Huggins Cult of Personality.

[golfitup]

UC in the 90s was never about basketball, it was about the Huggins Cult of Personality.

Clearly

[Cheesehead]

Clearly

Cult of being a A-hole.

[Caveat]

The UC attendance woes continues to amaze me. UC has so many more fans than X and still can't come close to selling out their place with has proven to be a good team this season. Why aren't people going to the games?

It has a lot to do with the city -- Cincinnatians, as a group, are pretty crap about doing anything that requires reaching into their wallets.