Fox sports ratings struggling big time

[OTRMUSKIE]

http://painttouches.com/2014/01/08/big-east-fox-sports-1-struggle-to-gain-tv-ratings/

[vee4xu]

Like most any other start-up, there's going to be bumps in the road. I'll take a long term horizon look at wait and see. My feeling is that adjustments will be made to programming and the league with develop new and strong rivalries. I am optimistic that all will be good in 3-5 years.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Other than overpaying I really don't see this being a loss for Fox. What other east coast league could they get? The AAC is terrible next year, The ACC, Sec, BIG, all have deals with other networks. Is it possible that The Big East will not have a TV contract in 10 years? I guess that's just too impossible to answer this early n the game. Who could Fox 1&2 get that would be better than the BE?

[vee4xu]

True enough, OTR. Your comments especially ring true when you think of the BE in terms of media markets. No other league that isn't already signed to a TV deal can deliver, Boston, NYC, Northern NJ, DC, Chicago and Philly. These markets deliver tens of millions of viewers.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Vee your right about the viewers but that article said a few games had a rating of ZERO so not sure being in these markets are helping. Obviously Fox Sports knows what it's doing and I look forward to a long relationship with them.

[Masterofreality]

It.....will.....be.....fine.

As long as advertisers are paying the freight with commercials, all is well.

And they are.

[RoseyMuskie]

I'm not a TV ratings expert and don't know exactly how they work. With that being said, how do bars affect ratings? Personally, I do my best to tune into FS1 when looking for a sports fix, but bars still pretty much only have ESPN on by default.

Fox isn't bleeding cash by any means. Last week's Packers/49ers had 47.1 million viewers, and was the highest rated Wild Card game in 25 years. The main network can subsidize FS1 for the time being.

When FS1 gets better football content (which it will) and starts broadcasting baseball this coming year, I'd anticipate sharp ratings increases. I'm not concerned at all at this stage of the game.

[Masterofreality]

The first commercial break on the SucKS game on CBSSN had NO, that's NO paid ads...only promos for CBS related content.

Obviously, the AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAC is a big draw.

[OTRMUSKIE]

My only concern is that Xavier will lose the money if FXSPorts doesn't become successful. The channel will never go away and they will probably always show BE basketball. However, when the contract runs out will X be able to get 5mill a year or will they fall back to A-10 status.

[xudash]

My only concern is that Xavier will lose the money if FXSPorts doesn't become successful. The channel will never go away and they will probably always show BE basketball. However, when the contract runs out will X be able to get 5mill a year or will they fall back to A-10 status.

We'll have to see how the brands are managed.

The good news is we have a long-term deal, reflecting their long-term commitment, and a deep-pockets broadcast partner.

The fact is that we couldn't ask for much more, in terms of how it was positioned out of the gate.

[Fireball]

The other thing that you have to keep in mind is that during the bulk of the non-conference season, with FS1 showing a TON of Big East games, you were getting Xavier vs. Abilene Christian, Villanova vs. Towson, etc. Not exactly things that are going to turn eyes to your channel besides fans of those schools, and maybe not even that many of those. ESPN is not showing games with high majors vs. low majors. They're showing good matchups of mainly some national interest.

So, you have to take the rating with a grain a salt. I would expect that the conference games are going to see a significant bump. Villanova vs. Georgetown, Marquette vs. Xavier, and Butler vs. Creighton are games of some national interest that will draw eyes to the channel.

[DC Muskie]

the biggest problem is no one knows that FS1 exists or what channel it is. That won't change overnight, but growth is something to look at. Next year should be slightly better. As long as there is growth, which I think will happen, it will be fine. I'm not overly concerned that FS1 is drawing a quarter of what ESPN2 does.

As for FS2? It will take about 100 years for that channel to gain any traction.

[xubrew]

The other thing that you have to keep in mind is that during the bulk of the non-conference season, with FS1 showing a TON of Big East games, you were getting Xavier vs. Abilene Christian, Villanova vs. Towson, etc. Not exactly things that are going to turn eyes to your channel besides fans of those schools, and maybe not even that many of those. ESPN is not showing games with high majors vs. low majors. They're showing good matchups of mainly some national interest.

So, you have to take the rating with a grain a salt. I would expect that the conference games are going to see a significant bump. Villanova vs. Georgetown, Marquette vs. Xavier, and Butler vs. Creighton are games of some national interest that will draw eyes to the channel.

This is a good point, but think about what you're saying. Fox forked out a huge amount of cash, and what you're saying is basically explaining why they should not have done it and likely won't do it again once this contract is up.

Fox overpaid for this. I think that's obvious now. They aren't likely to do that again because they're not going to be able to sell future advertising when the ratings have been that low. I think we'll be fine. I'm not panicking about it. But, once this contract is up, we're not going to get anything nearly as lucrative as we did this past time.

The issue is this. The teams in this conference can deliver the market they're in on the night they're playing. That's it. Creighton cannot deliver the Cincinnati market, or the Chicago market, or the Dallas market, or the Nashville market when they're playing Seton Hall. No team in the league can, so of course the ratings are low. It's not Kentucky, or Louisville, or Duke, or UNC, or UCLA (for whatever reason), or Michigan State, or programs that do draw nationally whenever they play for whatever reason. No Big East teams do. When you look at how it rates nationally, it is going to rate poorly. It will do well in markets when a team from that market is playing, but not nationally. There is a reason ESPN was not willing to pay nearly what Fox did for it.

[xsteve1]

Getting the games on the main Fox Network for weekend games should help generate interest and hopefully steer people to Fox Sports 1.

[DC Muskie]

Also remember college basketball rating in general are terrible.

[xavierj]

Getting the games on the main Fox Network for weekend games should help generate interest and hopefully steer people to Fox Sports 1.

Yes they are already doing that. Xavier vs. Marquette will be on the main Fox channel. They will need to pump up the ads promoting FS1 on those telecasts.

[xubrew]

Also remember college basketball rating in general are terrible.

Absolutely.

Which, again, makes you wonder why they paid as much as they did.

[DC Muskie]

Absolutely.

Which, again, makes you wonder why they paid as much as they did.

They needed content and there was some competition with NBCS and CBSS. Of course it helps that the guy from Fox who put together the deal is a St. John's grad.

[xubrew]

The thing about college basketball is this.....there is so much of it. There were 139 games yesterday, and over 100 were either on TV or streamed on the internet. You don't have two to three games each week of national appeal the way you do in football.

Xavier v Creighton is a big game, but so is SMU v Louisville. A win for SMU is a huge road win that may get them in reach of bubble, and Louisville is trying to avoid another league loss at home. There are so many games that mean something, and the only game people care about is the one that involves their team. During the tournament the ratings are through the roof, but not before that.

I think Fox should pool all of the hoops they have with Fox Sports 1, FS2, and all of the FSN networks, and have one or two featured games a week. All the other games will still be on, but only go national with the one or two that have national appeal. In other words, find the quality within the quantity. It would be a similar setup to what CBS and ESPN/ABC do with college football. Name the national games about six days in advance. That way, you could sell to advertisers on the basis that every week there would be two featured games of national interest from various conferences.

[paulxu]

I would guess most everyone is watching playoff NFL this afternoon.

[BlueGuy]

I would guess most everyone is watching playoff NFL this afternoon.

This is a good point. Did Fox sell the rights to today's game to CBS? The ratings for today's game are going to be garbage up against NFL playoffs. Only people watching today will be the die hard X and Creighton fane.

[Masterofreality]

Absolutely.

Which, again, makes you wonder why they paid as much as they did.

Content. If you are going to be taken to be a legitimate sports network, you HAVE to have live games.

The NFL, NBA, NHL are all spoken for as are the major conferences. Big East basketball delivers major, major markets and is the next best option, and while $50 million a year sounds like a ton, in the world of sports programming, it is reasonable. It will be important going down the road, that the league deliver at least 2nd and 3rd weekend NCAA Tournament teams on a consistent basis for credibility, but that is not critical THIS year.

[Masterofreality]

Frank the Tank had this little tidbit this morning. Apparently, the NFL is putting the Thursday night games up for bid.

@frankthetank111: To give you an idea of what the NFL is worth, they’ll likely get $100 million Per Game for those mediocre Thursday night games.

Fox is only paying $50 mil Per Season for the Big East. It's all relative, man. Meanwhile the Borecats and Cryers get less from TV than us. Ha!

[LA Muskie]

Regular season college basketball is filler. It's expensive filler, but filler nevertheless. I'm sure the ratings are disappointing, but up until now college basketball has been a solid 4th -- possibly 5th -- option on most sports fans' dialers (behind NFL, NBA, CFB, and -- depending on the region -- the NHL).

FS1 will be fine. This is just their "soft open". Did they overpay for their basketball product? Relatively against value, maybe. But they need programming and they need credibility. So it suits their needs. And while Rupert requires each of its divisions to be independently profitable, he also knows that it takes a while to make a foothold in a new market -- especially an monopolistic one. So he'll be patient. And in the meantime, the Fox Mother Ship ain't going anywhere.

[xubrew]

I like FS1. I think their coverage and quality is excellent.

I'm also not surprised by the low ratings. It is exactly what I expected. Actually, they're slightly lower than I thought they'd be, but I didn't think the ratings would be good. It has gone pretty much the way that I thought it would.

When this contract is up, I do not think the Big East will get nearly as much money as they did this past go round. I don't think most of the other conferences who are locked in to contracts with other networks will either. The ratings just do not warrant spending that kind of money. No one else offered as much as Fox did, and next time Fox won't offer as much as Fox did. I've felt that way since before FS1 even launched.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. College basketball does well in individual media markets when a team from that market is playing. It does not do well nationally. The more games that are on TV, the more true that is. There were over 130 games on TV or internet stream in this past weekend alone. Fans watch the games that their teams are playing in, and pretty much just stick to that. When there are 100+ games on in a weekend, the viewership for any one particular game is going to be low. There aren't really any national conferences or programs.

So, because of that, I think the TV contracts for college basketball have topped out. The networks will lose money. Not just FS1, but all of them, and the contracts will be lower the next time around.

[Muskie]

Agree to some extent Brew. I barely have time to watch X games. Where as a few years ago I would watch the "Games of the Week" or have them on in the background. As I've gotten older, I've got less and and less time to watch college basketball (or football for that matter). I wonder how much streaming is factoring into the ratings drop? Do they have a way to account for it?

[casualfan]

http://deadspin.com/report-fox-sports-1-will-get-rid-of-the-good-parts-1792682261?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

[XUMIOH12]

http://deadspin.com/report-fox-sports-1-will-get-rid-of-the-good-parts-1792682261?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

i'm definitely good with that. those guys sucked and so did that show

[xu82]

For what (very little) it's worth, I've been noticing Fox Sports on more and more TV's in bars and restaurants. Even caught a nice Big East special at lunch lately.

[casualfan]

Not sure what else they can do to get people watching, but these numbers are staggering:

Sports TV Ratings
‏@SportsTVRatings

Weds college hoops on ESPN:

Louisville/North Carolina: 2.131M
Duke/Syracuse: 1.805M

Butler/Villanova on FS1: 284K

[fellahmuskie]

Not sure what else they can do to get people watching, but these numbers are staggering:

Sports TV Ratings
‏@SportsTVRatings

Weds college hoops on ESPN:

Louisville/North Carolina: 2.131M
Duke/Syracuse: 1.805M

Butler/Villanova on FS1: 284K

It's going to be really interesting to see how Big 10 basketball does on FS1. If that struggles to compete with ESPN/2 numbers, then I'll be concerned. For now, I think Big East numbers have been stable and gradually rising. Not sure about this season, but the first few months were decent.

[XUMIOH12]

Not sure what else they can do to get people watching, but these numbers are staggering:

Sports TV Ratings
‏@SportsTVRatings

Weds college hoops on ESPN:

Louisville/North Carolina: 2.131M
Duke/Syracuse: 1.805M

Butler/Villanova on FS1: 284K

that is a pretty big difference, but look at the teams playing on ESPN and the size of their followings. Generally, especially for casual fans, they check ESPN for sports to see what is on. I have even noticed this with several friends who are avid sports fans, yet rarely check FS1 just to see what is on.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I feel like FS1 also doesnt have enough everyday good games and sports on yet either that would make someone just flip it on to see what is on. They have a lot of niche stuff like Nascar and UFC (I know both have a lot of fans) but also just random UFC shows and dirt biking and other smaller attraction things. You can turn on ESPN at any given time any given night and there is a main stream game on of some sort. FS1 doesnt have that yet.

[drudy23]

If we're honest, let's admit the rest of the country doesn't look at Big East hoops the same way as they do the big boys (with the exception of maybe Villanova), at least not in terms of entertainment value.

Does the random college basketball fan know enough about Xavier to watch a random Wednesday night game against Creighton? Not really. We love our Muskies but the rest of the country isn't interested.

[Juice]

If we're honest, let's admit the rest of the country doesn't look at Big East hoops the same way as they do the big boys (with the exception of maybe Villanova), at least not in terms of entertainment value.

Does the random college basketball fan know enough about Xavier to watch a random Wednesday night game against Creighton? Not really. We love our Muskies but the rest of the country isn't interested.

Yeah for as good as our conference is, it is comprised of a lot of small, private schools that do not have huge fan bases and don't have huge followings. Continued success obviously helps with that.

[xu82]

Even if you hate him, guys like Colin Cowherd have a following. They are getting more and more exposure, and ESPN generally sucks. So........

[D-West & PO-Z]

Do you guys think its more the schools or the networks? If you switched those games with the number of viewers listed and made the BE game on ESPN and the ESPN games on FS1 do you think the numbers flip along with it?

I think its both but more the networks than schools. I think those teams would get more viewers than the BE game did on FS1 but I'd bet the viewers would have been significantly higher still on ESPN if the games were switched.