Dee Davis and other topics.

[toledodan]

first off davis needs to be the last guard in the rotation. everytime mack put him into the game usc went on a run. if it wasn't a bad 3 point shot to a fast break it was a turnover leading to a fast break. i want to see myles, brandon and semaj in the backcourt starting the next game. the big stain and and farr/reynolds in the other spot.

another thing from the iowa game that really pi$$ed me off. when semaj left with cramps there was no stoppage in the game. when the player from iowa went down they stopped play for a good 10 mins even with him off the court.

if reports are true that players were in the casino until 2:00 am than heads should roll. even if the players are of age there is no reason for them to be there that late with an early game the next day.

i love xavier basketball but i would be one upset fan if i spent the dough to watch that crap for three days. i'm not talking the losses but the effort.

[xavierj]

Relax onmany points although I agree on Dee. Like the kid but he had a horrible tourney. As for the other stuff. They didn't stop for 10 minutes but it was a couple. Difference is Marble went down on the floor under the basket. As for heads rolling they stayed at a hotel with a casino in the middle. Maybe they should have stayed on a boat. What do you expect? No one was doing anything different than anyone else, no one got into trouble. Some people amaze with with the be perfect crap and do as I say not as I do.

[toledodan]

so if they were down in the casino till 2am that's ok??

[LA Muskie]

College kids up till 2 am? NFW. Seriously let's get a grip...

[toledodan]

College kids up till 2 am? NFW. Seriously let's get a grip...

i'm getting the grip that players were there to play basketball. staying in the casino till 2am with them playing the first game is crazy. it's not like they get to sleep till noon and play at one.

[GoMuskies]

I assume there was a curfew. If it was earlier than 2 am, players in the casino until 2 is a problem. If it was 2am or later, players in the casino until 2 am is not a problem.

[toledodan]

I assume there was a curfew. If it was earlier than 2 am, players in the casino until 2 is a problem. If it was 2am or later, players in the casino until 2 am is not a problem.

that's fair and with the shakeup in the starting five makes you wonder which one it was. i can't imagine a 2am curfew with a 1pm tip. then again who knows. something doesn't sound right.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Who cares these are kids who wanted to hang out at the casino. This isn't professional ball. We treat these kids like they are suppose to stop being kids bc they play basketball. Just because our lives revolve around Xavier doesn't mean theirs should.

[Cheesehead]

there are two different issues: being in a casino (which is fine w/ me) and missing curfew when a team travels thousands of miles for a tournament (NOT FINE w/me). If I am Mack, their PT is also altered for next game and perhaps 2-3 games to send a message.

[X-ROX]

They should've been shooting free throws til 2 AM.

[bleedXblue]

Dee is a good kid who usually plays really hard. He's not high level D1 talent though. He's purely a solid back up point guard. I think Martin and Philmore also fall into this category. And there you have the crux of the issue. 3 starters who are solid backups on most Top 25 teams. Sorry, but I think this is the issue for the most part. I'm not saying they can't help and I'm not saying you give up on them. As they say, it is what it is. This is going to be another lean year, but the young guys will get better and be able to fill some key roles for next year. All of this is fallout from poor recruiting the last 4-5 years and of course the Lyons and Wells situations.

[Juice]

there are two different issues: being in a casino (which is fine w/ me) and missing curfew when a team travels thousands of miles for a tournament (NOT FINE w/me). If I am Mack, their PT is also altered for next game and perhaps 2-3 games to send a message.

The Atlantis casino is located right off the lobby of the hotel. If they truly had a curfew, any member of the staff could have been downstairs in the casino within 2 minutes to check to make sure they were all following the curfew. I highly doubt that the players were violating a team rule in the casino in the hotel which is easy to be seen in.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

The Atlantis casino is located right off the lobby of the hotel. If they truly had a curfew, any member of the staff could have been downstairs in the casino within 2 minutes to check to make sure they were all following the curfew. I highly doubt that the players were violating a team rule in the casino in the hotel which is easy to be seen in.

If they weren't violating curfew at 2am on game night then that is a problem with the coaching staff setting the curfew. Obviously they couldn't handle that. Fact is, these guys are like 1980 USA hockey. They can't win on talent alone. 18-22 years will act as that, but it takes a firm handed coaching staff to keep them focused on game nights.

I still think this team has enough talent to win a lot of games. We will see if Mack reigns them in enough to get everyone on the same page.

[Muskie]

If they weren't violating curfew at 2am on game night then that is a problem with the coaching staff setting the curfew. Obviously they couldn't handle that. Fact is, these guys are like 1980 USA hockey. They can't win on talent alone. 18-22 years will act as that, but it takes a firm handed coaching staff to keep them focused on game nights.

I still think this team has enough talent to win a lot of games. We will see if Mack reigns them in enough to get everyone on the same page.

Are you suggesting something like this?

http://youtu.be/vwpTj_Z9v-c

[Muskie]

Or This


http://youtu.be/Bb-hWG3cHMQ

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Or This


http://youtu.be/Bb-hWG3cHMQ

Laugh all you want, but yes. That is exactly what I expect until the team gets it. I was never gifted athletically, but I had good success in both soccer and swimming because I had coaches who understood that I and the rest of the team would be going against kids who were more talented. We always did extremely well because we worked harder and we focused better.

[Muskie]

Not laughing at all. I think some sort of wake up call is in order on some level.

[ammtd34]

Are we even positive that they were in the casino at 2:00 AM?

[nuts4xu]

Are we even positive that they were in the casino at 2:00 AM?

Of course, it was posted on the internet. They can't just make stuff up and post it without absolute solid proof.

[Cheesehead]

again!!!!!!!

[toledodan]

Of course, it was posted on the internet. They can't just make stuff up and post it without absolute solid proof.

it would be interesting to know for sure.

[whiteyxu]

OK, I get the whole thing about how they're young and on vacation and can legally be in the casino, but I still have an issue with them being there late at night. Isn't it their responsibility to give their best effort and represent their school in a professional manner? If they want to go out after dinner for a couple hours and have some fun at the casino, whatever. But if they're out that late, it sure doesn't look like basketball was their first priority, and it doesn't really reflect well on the school/program. It looks even worse when you play like sh!t the next day. I assume most of our players came to Xavier at least in part because they wanted to play for a high-quality program and win games against high-quality teams. If that's what they signed up for, why aren't they putting the work in and preparing as well as they can?

[whiteyxu]

Of course, it was posted on the internet. They can't just make stuff up and post it without absolute solid proof.

This is a good point. However, call me a sucker, but the reports wouldn't surprise me.

[xeus]

If they want to go out after dinner for a couple hours and have some fun at the casino, whatever. But if they're out that late, it sure doesn't look like basketball was their first priority, and it doesn't really reflect well on the school/program. It looks even worse when you play like sh!t the next day.

This team, including Coach Mack, needs the "perception is reality" lecture.

[NY44]

Back to the original topic at hand, which is where Dee Davis stands in the guard rotation, I have him at #2. Semaj, Dee, Myles, and Randolph. At the moment him and Semaj are the most confident and able ball handlers. Randolph has the skill to be floor general, but his decision making isn't there yet, I say all of this because of the Iowa press. To be clear, none of them handled it well, but Randolph got caught in a trap every trip down the floor and Myles just flat out can't dribble. Dee was also the only guard who recognized the importance of getting the ball down to Stainbrook, which was essential. Myles is currently only as good as who's passing to him, and Randolph has developing to do. If Semaj is ever out of the cards, Dee is our next best point option.

[LA Muskie]

Back to the original topic at hand, which is where Dee Davis stands in the guard rotation, I have him at #2. Semaj, Dee, Myles, and Randolph. At the moment him and Semaj are the most confident and able ball handlers. Randolph has the skill to be floor general, but his decision making isn't there yet, I say all of this because of the Iowa press. To be clear, none of them handled it well, but Randolph got caught in a trap every trip down the floor and Myles just flat out can't dribble. Dee was also the only guard who recognized the importance of getting the ball down to Stainbrook, which was essential. Myles is currently only as good as who's passing to him, and Randolph has developing to do. If Semaj is ever out of the cards, Dee is our next best point option.
I agree. Dee had a horrendous tournament -- there's no sugar-coating that -- but I think he's still got to be our starting point guard. If you think Dee was bad at breaking the press against Iowa (and he was), just imagine what it would have looked like if Brandon was the lead ball-handler. If you need a mental image, go back and look at the first half of the Morehead St. game.

I guess theoretically we could start Semaj at the 1 and Myles at the 2. But Mack seems to want Semaj off the ball so that he can carry more of the offensive load, and Myles is not a particularly good ball-handler. Nor is he a particularly good defender. (Please don't read anything into any of that -- I really like Myles. It's just that he's a clear and solid SG to me.)

[XUFan09]

I thought Dee looked fine against the press when Semaj was in. It fell apart though without Semaj, because Dee doesn't handle a press well by himself. That's true to his standing as a role player, as it relates to his reliance on good players around him.

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[bigdiggins]

Back to the original topic at hand, which is where Dee Davis stands in the guard rotation, I have him at #2. Semaj, Dee, Myles, and Randolph. At the moment him and Semaj are the most confident and able ball handlers. Randolph has the skill to be floor general, but his decision making isn't there yet, I say all of this because of the Iowa press. To be clear, none of them handled it well, but Randolph got caught in a trap every trip down the floor and Myles just flat out can't dribble. Dee was also the only guard who recognized the importance of getting the ball down to Stainbrook, which was essential. Myles is currently only as good as who's passing to him, and Randolph has developing to do. If Semaj is ever out of the cards, Dee is our next best point option.

I'd put him at #5. Semaj, Randolph, Myles, Whelan, Dee.

[Juice]

OK, I get the whole thing about how they're young and on vacation and can legally be in the casino, but I still have an issue with them being there late at night. Isn't it their responsibility to give their best effort and represent their school in a professional manner? If they want to go out after dinner for a couple hours and have some fun at the casino, whatever. But if they're out that late, it sure doesn't look like basketball was their first priority, and it doesn't really reflect well on the school/program. It looks even worse when you play like sh!t the next day. I assume most of our players came to Xavier at least in part because they wanted to play for a high-quality program and win games against high-quality teams. If that's what they signed up for, why aren't they putting the work in and preparing as well as they can?

Have you ever shown up to work without getting your usual amount of sleep? That doesn't reflect well on your company/employer especially. I assume you wanted to work at your company to do a good job and be a good employee. Why didn't you stay an extra hour at work today? Why did decide to watch that TV show last night when you could have gone to bed earlier?

Everyone acts like all these guys should do is eat, drink, and sleep basketball. Let them live their lives. Did they play like shit last week? Sure. But an extra hour of sleep didn't make or break these games.

[whiteyxu]

Have you ever shown up to work without getting your usual amount of sleep? That doesn't reflect well on your company/employer especially. I assume you wanted to work at your company to do a good job and be a good employee. Why didn't you stay an extra hour at work today? Why did decide to watch that TV show last night when you could have gone to bed earlier?

Everyone acts like all these guys should do is eat, drink, and sleep basketball. Let them live their lives. Did they play like shit last week? Sure. But an extra hour of sleep didn't make or break these games.

I think Xeus's post is a pretty good response to this. It's not that they stayed up late and had a bad game on short sleep. It's the fact that now the perceptionis that our upper classmen would rather spend their time at a casino than resting up to have the best chance at salvaging what respect they could at the tournament. As I actually mentioned, I don't care that they were there, and I support them enjoying their trip. The fact remains, though, that being in a casino late may not have been the best choice to make at that time, and you can't get away with some of these more questionable behaviors when you're not winning games.

[Milhouse]

Looking at some stats and I don't see how you don't start Farr over Philmore.

Farr has a better FG % (24/40) than Philmore (22/38)

More Blocks (10) to Philmore's glaring ZERO

Better Free Throw Shooter

Ability to Shoot from outside 8 feet and space the defense.

And possibly the best stat:

Farr has nearly DOUBLED the amount of Rebounds Philmore has 50 vs. 27.

All this while playing about 25 less minutes on the season than Philmore. There's also an argument to be made for placing Philmore 4th on the rotation honestly behind Reynolds.

[Juice]

Looking at some stats and I don't see how you don't start Farr over Philmore.

Farr has a better FG % (24/40) than Philmore (22/38)

More Blocks (10) to Philmore's glaring ZERO

Better Free Throw Shooter

Ability to Shoot from outside 8 feet and space the defense.

And possibly the best stat:

Farr has nearly DOUBLED the amount of Rebounds Philmore has 50 vs. 27.

All this while playing about 25 less minutes on the season than Philmore. There's also an argument to be made for placing Philmore 4th on the rotation honestly behind Reynolds.

The numbers speak for themselves but I think Farr's problem is that he accumulates fouls too quickly in the amount of playing time he gets. Farr is 4th in personal fouls but 8th in minutes.

[XUFan09]

Reynolds averages 7.7 fouls per 40 minutes. Farr averages 6.3. Philmore averages 6.0. That's a stat that will affect all their minutes.

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[XU 87]

I thought Dee looked fine against the press when Semaj was in. It fell apart though without Semaj, because Dee doesn't handle a press well by himself. That's true to his standing as a role player, as it relates to his reliance on good players around him.

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I think that's a pretty good analysis of Dee. Because he's so small, both in height and bulk, he needs to have superior quickness and dribbling to make up for his size. And while he is quick and has a good handle, I don't think either is superior as opposed to the 6'1" players he is up against. I also think Dee's shot takes some time to get off and while he is a good shooter, he certainly isn't a great shooter.

Compare Dee to Lavender. Lavender was almost always the quickest guy on the court and was a superior ball handler. Lavender also had a quick release. Those qualities more than made up for his lack of size.

[drudy23]

PS - I loved Drew Lavender...the one man press break.

In my opinion, the best "true" point guard we've had in the last 20 years. He made everyone better. Brad Redford would have broken the school's three point records with Drew as his point guard.

Dribble drive and kick to Duncan for 3...man, imagine if that was Redford. I loved that team.

[bleedXblue]

[QUOTE=drudy23;415621]PS - I loved Drew Lavender...the one man press break.

In my opinion, the best "true" point guard we've had in the last 20 years. He made everyone better. Brad Redford would have broken the school's three point records with Drew as his point guard.

Dribble drive and kick to Duncan for 3...man, imagine if that was Redford. I loved that team.[/QUOTE

Drew had the tear drop finish in the lane that you had to respect. With Dee, you dont have that....at least he hasnt figured it out yet. If Im an opposing coach I force X to make jump shots and 3 pointers. It just makes too much sense not to.

[southpawmuskie13]

I was at B4A and in the Casino about every night. I did not see any Xavier players past 11:00 pm in the casino and the players for the most part had a low profile. Did play blackjack with a USC starter till about 2 am who was throwing down some serious cash though.

[theleague]

First off, I was at the casino every night down there. I witnessed a couple players each night, but every team had players down there. No one was drinking or gambling, just taking in the sights. About the entire Tennessee team was down there every night. And I highly doubt the coaches were happy, but then again, I saw some there late as well.

What did disappoint me, besides the outcomes, was the fact the both Dee and Philmore appeared to be the two least engaged players. While everyone else was pissed they were getting their ass kicked, they looked like they were just going through the motions.

[GoMuskies]

Did play blackjack with a USC starter till about 2 am who was throwing down some serious cash though.

Was it the huge guy from Greece? He was either out at a casino until 2am or is just terrible. Possibly both.

[Juice]

I was at B4A and in the Casino about every night. I did not see any Xavier players past 11:00 pm in the casino and the players for the most part had a low profile. Did play blackjack with a USC starter till about 2 am who was throwing down some serious cash though.

New favorite player

[Xman95]

PS - I loved Drew Lavender...the one man press break.

In my opinion, the best "true" point guard we've had in the last 20 years. He made everyone better. Brad Redford would have broken the school's three point records with Drew as his point guard.

Dribble drive and kick to Duncan for 3...man, imagine if that was Redford. I loved that team.

In two more years I will let you say that without getting a protest from me. However, until 2015, Michael Hawkins will still be part of that 20-yr window and there's a reason my boy made it to the league. Hawk was an outstanding "true" PG.

[LA Muskie]

In two more years I will let you say that without getting a protest from me. However, until 2015, Michael Hawkins will still be part of that 20-yr window and there's a reason my boy made it to the league. Hawk was an outstanding "true" PG.
I'm with you. Plus Hawk is just an outstanding guy.

[Masterofreality]

In two more years I will let you say that without getting a protest from me. However, until 2015, Michael Hawkins will still be part of that 20-yr window and there's a reason my boy made it to the league. Hawk was an outstanding "true" PG.

This.

And LA is right too. Hawk is a good guy.

[Muskie in dayton]

This.

And LA is right too. Hawk is a good guy.

HAWK. IS. AWESOME!

Anyone out there live at the Village in '93-'94? Remember what I'm referring to?

[Nigel Tufnel]

Hawk was pure class. Friendly, humble guy. One of my all time favorites. Loved his game.....but was an even better person. Good call, Russ.

[Cheesehead]

HAWK. IS. AWESOME!

Anyone out there live at the Village in '93-'94? Remember what I'm referring to?

I was there for first year it opened in 1990 and we threw one hell of a kegger all the way in the back near the woods. Somehow XU-50 didn't bust it but I remember the grass had not come in yet and it was a muddy mess. Needless to say, didn't get our deposit back.

[nuts4xu]

Mike Hawkins was my roommate during the bridge program, and has always been a class act.