Rough Night in the Big East

[GoMuskies]

Aside from Xavier crushing a terrible opponent, things are not going well tonight. Marquette continued to struggle with a loss to Arizona State, DePaul is getting smoked by Wichita State in Kansas City, and Maryland has a big early lead on Provi.

Opportunities being missed. Hopefully Xavier will reverse that trend against the Hawkeyes on Thursday.

[casualfan]

Aside from Xavier crushing a terrible opponent, things are not going well tonight. Marquette continued to struggle with a loss to Arizona State, DePaul is getting smoked by Wichita State in Kansas City, and Maryland has a big early lead on Provi.

Opportunities being missed. Hopefully Xavier will reverse that trend against the Hawkeyes on Thursday.

Not only that but we looked pretty bad for 3/4's of the game. If we play like that against most of the teams on our schedule we'll get smoked.

[ammtd34]

Not only that but we looked pretty bad for 3/4's of the game. If we play like that against most of the teams on our schedule we'll get smoked.

I didn't think we really looked bad. On a bunch of their 3s, we had a hand in their face but they still went in. Sometimes, there's not much you can do. I wouldn't put any stock - good or bad - into that game. I'm glad it's over.

[casualfan]

I didn't think we really looked bad. On a bunch of their 3s, we had a hand in their face but they still went in. Sometimes, there's not much you can do. I wouldn't put any stock - good or bad - into that game. I'm glad it's over.

We must have seen different games. I thought our defense for most of the first half and the beginning of the second was pitiful.

I do agree I'm glad it is over.

[GoMuskies]

I figured nothing good could come from the ACU game. Getting a ho-hum 30 point win with no injuries means nothing bad came from it either.

[kyxu]

I didn't think we really looked bad. On a bunch of their 3s, we had a hand in their face but they still went in. Sometimes, there's not much you can do. I wouldn't put any stock - good or bad - into that game. I'm glad it's over.

I agree with this. ACU just hit their shots, some of which were either shot from Columbus, or were guarded. Really nothing you can do about that. As expected, their hot streak dwindled though (they even started airballing some) as the fatigue set in.

[boozehound]

We must have seen different games. I thought our defense for most of the first half and the beginning of the second was pitiful.

I do agree I'm glad it is over.

Mack saw a different game too. He seemed overall satisfied with the team's play on both sides of the ball.

[Titanxman04]

The defense typically lets up in the end of games when the margin is pretty wide and fatigue sets in. It showed on both sides. I wasn't pleased with those guys running into our lane and hitting jump shots like they were towards the end. Earlier, ACU just hit everything they put up. They hit like, eight shots ina row at one point in the first half. I was thrilled with Farr and of course, no injuries is a huge plus for a game like this.

These types of games will keep your guys sharp going into a tournament. Atlantis is the true test.

[bobbiemcgee]

Guess I missed the negatives too or just have blue colored glasses. Farr making his bid to start, Myles nailing 3's we didn't have last year, Reynolds getting some much needed time on the floor, Semaj running wild, Stain doing his thing, many blocks, low to's. Only negative to me was the 3 drives to the hoop unimpeded but that was quickly corrected. I didn't expect them to muster the same energy needed to beat Kansas.

[xudash]

Guess I missed the negatives too or just have blue colored glasses. Farr making his bid to start, Myles nailing 3's we didn't have last year, Reynolds getting some much needed time on the floor, Semaj running wild, Stain doing his thing, many blocks, low to's. Only negative to me was the 3 drives to the hoop unimpeded but that was quickly corrected. I didn't expect them to muster the same energy needed to beat Kansas.

Agree with you completely.

I don't know if ACU can shoot like that in every game they play, but kudos to them for putting up a fight for a little while.

Otherwise, Xavier is coming into good form early in the season, through multiple players.

Watching Stain is fun. Watching Farr and Reynolds on the floor together is a blast, and it should only get better.

[xubrew]

A conference cannot just rack up wins against cupcakes. It doesn't work. I know that's what everybody thinks the Big East used to do, but in reality they actually did put together a list of big OOC wins every year. Syracuse really didn't, but everyone else did. The BE needs some more out of conference wins against solid tournament teams. We beat Tennessee, Georgetown beat VCU, and that's about it up to this point.

Other notable wins appear to be Creighton at Saint Joseph's (maybe), and perhaps Providence over La Salle, but that's only if La Salle gets it together.

Xavier really needs to do well in this tournament.

[LA Muskie]

Not only that but we looked pretty bad for 3/4's of the game. If we play like that against most of the teams on our schedule we'll get smoked.
I'm not sure why you thought that. I thought we looked pretty good. Hell, for a about 12 minutes of the 1st half we looked downright unstoppable on offense (bearing in mind our opponent...). And that was BEFORE Myles caught fire in the second half.

If your concern was the made baskets and scoring, I think that had far less to do with bad defense than (i) they shot lights-out in the first half despite solid defense; and (ii) the game was played at a significantly faster pace than our prior games.

Let's put it this way -- when asked at halftime about their scoring, Mack didn't have a negative thing to say. If Mack was upset, I think we all know he wouldn't have pulled any punches; that's just not his style. Like he said, they made some really tough shots. Sometimes that happens.

Did we play perfect defense? Certainly not. Philmore in particular was out of position a few times, and our guards allowed more penetration than I would like. But to say we looked "pretty bad for 3/4 of the game"? Not the one I was watching...

[XUFan09]

From people's description (I had to leave home with seven minutes left in the first half), it reminds me of the Wake Forest game in the 2010-2011 season when Tu notched a triple-double. Xavier was destroying them but they were hitting some circus threes, particularly late in the game, that just happened to go in. Xavier only beat them by 8 or so, but the game was really much more lopsided than that.

[GIMMFD]

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing Marquette not make the tournament, mainly because Buzz Williams is a huge douche and I hate him. The rest of the conference however, needs to get it together, Georgetown is so hot and cold, Creighton is going to be pretty tough as well. Looks like we are going to have to be the flag ship again.

[Masterofreality]

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing Marquette not make the tournament, mainly because Buzz Williams is a huge douche and I hate him. The rest of the conference however, needs to get it together, Georgetown is so hot and cold, Creighton is going to be pretty tough as well. Looks like we are going to have to be the flag ship again.

Agree with Buzz Williams being a douche X 4

[GoMuskies]

I'm beginning to worry about our league this year. A lot.

I hate that we're part of the problem, too.

[GoMuskies]

I had no idea that Maurice Creek was at GW now. Good move for him. Score a bunch of points and get an excellent education.

[xsteve1]

I'm beginning to worry about our league this year. A lot.

I hate that we're part of the problem, too.

Looks like the Top 3 are the typical old BE teams, Nova, Georgetown and Marquette. Creighton looks fairly average and when McDermott graduates they may go into the tank.

I'd rank it now..
1. Nova 2. Georgetown 3. Marquette 4. Providence 5. Creighton 6. Butler 7. St. John's 8. X 9. DePaul 10. Seton Hall

[DC Muskie]

I had no idea that Maurice Creek was at GW now. Good move for him. Score a bunch of points and get an excellent education.

Is he going to Georgetown school at night?

[GoMuskies]

Sorry, he'll get a degree perceived as being prestigious.

[DC Muskie]

Sorry, he'll get a degree perceived as being prestigious.

By other people who also graduated from that ponzi scheme.

[Masterofreality]

I'm beginning to worry about our league this year. A lot.

I hate that we're part of the problem, too.

You know what? Everybody is focusing on the league now because they're comparing it to the old Big East that wasn't going to be around whether the Catholic 7 broke away or not. It's a Red herring. The league in any form is better than the A-10 or the AAAAAAAAAAAAAC

This is a long term deal. The league has more highly rated recruits than any other league but te ACC. Lets's see where we are in 3 years. Fox 1 is in it for the long term. As long as this league is in the Top 5, and MSG is sold out for the Tournament, there is no issue..

[xudash]

You know what? Everybody is focusing on the league now because they're comparing it to the old Big East that wasn't going to be around whether the Catholic 7 broke away or not. It's a Red herring. The league in any form is better than the A-10 or the AAAAAAAAAAAAAC

This is a long term deal. The league has more highly rated recruits than any other league but te ACC. Lets's see where we are in 3 years. Fox 1 is in it for the long term. As long as this league is in the Top 5, and MSG is sold out for the Tournament, there is no issue..

This is a long term deal. - - This.

The league has more highly rated recruits than any other league but the ACC. - - This.

Lets's see where we are in 3 years. Fox 1 is in it for the long term. - - This.

As long as this league is in the Top 5, and MSG is sold out for the Tournament, there is no issue. - - And this.

[xubrew]

Nova has some good wins.

Good for them.

Marquette, Butler, Providence, Seton Hall, and Creighton all lost today.

I'm growing increasingly concerned at the league's collective inability to win games against teams that are worth a shit.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Well here is the latest RPI. Big East is 4 and the A10 is 8th. Not sure if this is accurate because we moved up 40 spots.

18 Marquette 0-0 5-3 73.50 25 55.38
20 Creighton 0-0 5-2 71.79 73 53.04
22 Georgetown 0-0 4-2 70.97 23 55.51
34 Butler 0-0 5-2 63.08 20 55.65
39 Villanova 0-0 7-0 59.45 16 56.56
72 Providence 0-0 7-2 52.33 92 52.33
83 Xavier 0-0 5-3 50.96 80 52.75
84 St. John's 0-0 5-2 50.86 41 54.63
129 Seton Hall 0-0 4-3 47.50 54 53.87
164 DePaul 0-0 4-3 45.57 26 55.38
http://realtimerpi.com

21 Saint Louis 0-0 6-2 71.17 59 53.62
32 VA Commonwealth 0-0 6-2 64.79 28 55.34
33 Massachusetts 0-0 6-0 64.25 9 57.40
55 La Salle 0-0 3-4 55.95 48 54.14
66 Dayton 0-0 6-1 53.87 35 54.96
81 Richmond 0-0 6-2 51.00 116 51.47
95 George Mason 1-0 5-2 49.75 224 48.56
97 Geo. Washington 0-0 6-1 49.68 111 51.58
106 St. Joseph's 0-0 4-2 48.99 180 49.54
140 St. Bonaventure 0-0 5-2 46.86 253 47.76
213 Rhode Island 0-1 5-3 42.18 166 50.07
226 Fordham 0-0 3-2 41.65 99 52.10
243 Duquesne 0-0 2-3 39.97 96 52.18

[GoMuskies]

The good news is that half of the league is top 50 in the RPI!

[nuts4xu]

The good news is that half of the league is top 50 in the RPI!

In the old Big East, this would be the time their RPI was awful and propped up by wins over cupcakes. I am not saying the scheduling practices have changed this quickly, but it will be nice to see our RPI climb as we get into conference play.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Does ESPN use a little different formula bc they have Xavier at 123 and it's not their BPI it says RPI. I think the above RPI numbers are wrong because UMASS was #1

[casualfan]

Does ESPN use a little different formula bc they have Xavier at 123 and it's not their BPI it says RPI. I think the above RPI numbers are wrong because UMASS was #1

The one I use has us at 136. It is updated in realtime. (http://www.rpiforecast.com/live-rpi.html)

[xubrew]

In the old Big East, this would be the time their RPI was awful and propped up by wins over cupcakes. I am not saying the scheduling practices have changed this quickly, but it will be nice to see our RPI climb as we get into conference play.

Not necessarily.

For starters, several conferences with lower RPI's have collectively won more games.

Secondly, in order for the league to get a boost once conference play begins, all of the teams that we've played out of conference would have to maintain or improve their current win/loss record. Otherwise, the boost you get in conference from everyone having a bloated record is offset. I think many of the teams that the league has collectively scheduled are going to struggle. Remember last year when the SEC had a pretty good overall record, but their collective RPI actually went down throughout conference play. The same thing happened to CUSA a few years back.

It's not even a reliable metric until the teams have played more than ten games. I'm not convinced that it is going to climb. I actually think that it may decline.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Does RPI for ast use the same formula as real time RPI?

[Kahns Krazy]

Secondly, in order for the league to get a boost once conference play begins, all of the teams that we've played out of conference would have to maintain or improve their current win/loss record. Otherwise, the boost you get in conference from everyone having a bloated record is offset. .

I don't think that is necessarily true because of the 50% weighting to opponents record as opposed to the 25% for opponents-opponents. Also, in conference play, you start compounding the effect of your conference opponents, because by the end of the season, they are half of your opponents-opponents as well.

In aggregate, how your conference does against non-conference opponents is the single biggest driver of your final RPI, since every conference has exactly 50% win rate in conference. How your non-conference opponents perform after that becomes less relevant, and it affects every other conference to a somewhat similar extent.

I will say this is all based on my knowledge of the RPI from years ago, so it's possible I've missed the effect of more recent changes to the formula.

[bleedXblue]

I think this Big East vs A-10 vs AAC discussion is pretty sillly. It is what it is. We arent going back. We have a much better deal $$ and TV exposure. We're 8 games into this thing that could last for 15-20 years. The conference overall will be strong year in and year out. Its not Top 3, but easily should be a Top 5 conference most years. We're joined with very similar minded institutions. Whats there not to be happy about? Get on with it and be happy we landed in a great spot even though things arent as rosey as we had hoped initially.

[xubrew]

I don't think that is necessarily true because of the 50% weighting to opponents record as opposed to the 25% for opponents-opponents. Also, in conference play, you start compounding the effect of your conference opponents, because by the end of the season, they are half of your opponents-opponents as well.

In aggregate, how your conference does against non-conference opponents is the single biggest driver of your final RPI, since every conference has exactly 50% win rate in conference. How your non-conference opponents perform after that becomes less relevant, and it affects every other conference to a somewhat similar extent.

I will say this is all based on my knowledge of the RPI from years ago, so it's possible I've missed the effect of more recent changes to the formula.

Your out of conference opponents factor into the fifty percent. If you look at Butler's RPI, Princeton (5-1), Vandy (4-2), Wazzu (3-4) and LSU (5-2) are all teams that are VERY likely to finish the season with an overall winning percentage that is far lower than what it currently is.

Oklahoma State is 7-1. their current winning percentage is .875. Even if it is higher than that at the end of the year (which it may be), it won't be significantly higher. it can't be.

Now I do think North Dakota is a good team, but they are the only team that Butler has played who's final winning percentage is likely to be significantly higher than what it currently is. All the rest will likely stay the same, or be worse. Their RPI will drop because those teams do factor in to the fifty percent you were mentioning.

I think that scenario is true with a lot of teams.

[xavierj]

Your out of conference opponents factor into the fifty percent. If you look at Butler's RPI, Princeton (5-1), Vandy (4-2), Wazzu (3-4) and LSU (5-2) are all teams that are VERY likely to finish the season with an overall winning percentage that is far lower than what it currently is.

Oklahoma State is 7-1. their current winning percentage is .875. Even if it is higher than that at the end of the year (which it may be), it won't be significantly higher. it can't be.

Now I do think North Dakota is a good team, but they are the only team that Butler has played who's final winning percentage is likely to be significantly higher than what it currently is. All the rest will likely stay the same, or be worse. Their RPI will drop because those teams do factor in to the fifty percent you were mentioning.

I think that scenario is true with a lot of teams.

I don't know all of the in' and outs but I guess the Big East of the past had guady RPI's because the cup cakes they loaded up on ended up winning a lot of games in their conference?

[OTRMUSKIE]

I think this Big East vs A-10 vs AAC discussion is pretty sillly. It is what it is. We arent going back. We have a much better deal $$ and TV .
I agree with you but its fun to look at other conferences and see where you stand. We did it when X was in the A10 and I am sure we will continue to do it for a few years in the Big East.

[xubrew]

I don't know all of the in' and outs but I guess the Big East of the past had guady RPI's because the cup cakes they loaded up on ended up winning a lot of games in their conference?

Not exactly.

Two years ago when they sent 11 teams they won 88% of their games against the fourth toughest overall OOC. The only leagues that played tougher OOC schedules were the SWAC, Southland, and one other league that simply loads up on buy games. No other major conference came close to their schedule. They beat more tournament teams out of conference on average than any other conference that year too.

Last year, six of the eight teams that made the tournament won games away from home against NCAA Tournament teams.

Syracuse and UC loaded up on cupcakes, and Pitt would on occasion as well, but really no one else did. They played their share, but they played their big games as well.

[xavierj]

Not exactly.

Two years ago when they sent 11 teams they won 88% of their games against the fourth toughest overall OOC. The only leagues that played tougher OOC schedules were the SWAC, Southland, and one other league that simply loads up on buy games. No other major conference came close to their schedule. They beat more tournament teams out of conference on average than any other conference that year too.

Last year, six of the eight teams that made the tournament won games away from home against NCAA Tournament teams.

Syracuse and UC loaded up on cupcakes, and Pitt would on occasion as well, but really no one else did. They played their share, but they played their big games as well.

Look back at georgetown, Marquette, ND AND Pitt last year. They may have played a couple of good teams but 90% of their schedules were comprised of teams with crap records that couldn't compete with DII teams.

[xubrew]

Look back at georgetown, Marquette, ND AND Pitt last year. They may have played a couple of good teams but 90% of their schedules were comprised of teams with crap records that couldn't compete with DII teams.

Georgetown played Florida (albiet, only for a half because the game was on a boat and it rained), UCLA, Indiana, Tennessee (NIT), and Texas, who was admittedly not good, but I'd rate them slightly higher than a cupcake. They beat UCLA and Tennessee. They played seven cupcakes and five real games.

Marquette also had a game rained out against Ohio State, but also played Butler, Wisconsin, Florida and LSU. They beat Wisconsin and LSU.

Notre Dame's was weak, but they did manage to beat BYU and Kentucky, who were bubble teams.

Pitt's was pathetic, but their seed reflected it.

Still, all but Pitt managed notable wins out of conference. That's important. When you have a multitude of teams that enter conference play and already have notable wins on their profile, that's how leagues get multiple teams in. If you think those schedules are weak, those four teams still managed more notable wins by themselves than what all ten current Big East teams are on pace to get.

I'm not saying they didn't play cupcakes. I'm saying that that's not all they played, and it's their notable OOC wins, not bloated records against cupcakes, that got the league as many bids as they received.

[xubrew]

....although, the college basketball ratings this year have been good. At least by regular season college basketball standards.

[DC Muskie]

....although, the college basketball ratings this year have been good. At least by regular season college basketball standards.

But not on FS1

[GoMuskies]

I appreciate Creighton taking out their frustrations out on their in-state rivals the Cornhuskers. 42-12 so far.

[Masterofreality]

They claim that the Seton Hall/Rutgers game is for bragging rights in New Jersey....but both teams lost to Fairly Ridiculous.

Looks like Seton Hall will win.

[xubrew]

Is being the best team in New Jersey really anything to brag about??

[X-band '01]

It would be if you're an NJIT or FDU alum, I guess.

[Masterofreality]

It would be if you're an NJIT or FDU alum, I guess.

Well, to complete the Jersey Circle jerk, Seton Hall plays NJIT this week.

HUGE game!

[xubrew]

Saint Peter's is in New Jersey as well. I think they play Seton Hall regularly.

Seton Hall, Rutgers, NJIT, Fairleigh Dickinson and St. Peter's. The mythical Jersey Athletic Conference. Watch out Big Five!!

[X-band '01]

I appreciate Creighton taking out their frustrations out on their in-state rivals the Cornhuskers. 42-12 so far.

Evidently the Xavier Popes weren't watching the end of that game; a wrestling match (no punches thrown) broke out after a loose ball with a minute to go in the game. Gibbs for Creighton and his Nebraska counterpart both got Flagrant-2 fouls and an automatic ejection.

[Masterofreality]

Seton Hall, Rutgers, NJIT, Fairleigh Dickinson and St. Peter's. The mythical Jersey Athletic Conference. Watch out Big Five!!

So, would we call that the JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC!?

[Masterofreality]

Evidently the Xavier Popes weren't watching the end of that game; a wrestling match (no punches thrown) broke out after a loose ball with a minute to go in the game. Gibbs for Creighton and his Nebraska counterpart both got Flagrant-2 fouls and an automatic ejection.

OMG. A Brawl in a rivalry game. Holy Michigan-OSU!

[xubrew]

But not on FS1

WOW!!!

No, definitely not. Someone just told me that they haven't had a game rate above 0.05 yet. That is horrible.

Well, lets enjoy this while it lasts because I seriously doubt we'll ever get this much money again.

[Masterofreality]

WOW!!!

No, definitely not. Someone just told me that they haven't had a game rate above 0.05 yet. That is horrible.

Well, lets enjoy this while it lasts because I seriously doubt we'll ever get this much money again.

Depends on what other events on the network are drawing.

New venture. Let's give it some time.

[X-band '01]

That and the slate of games on the network aren't going to draw anyone outside of Big East diehards. Is it fair to expect games like Xavier-Abilene Christian, DePaul-Southern Miss and Butler-UND to draw lots of viewers?

The first real litmus test will be the opening day marathon on New Year's Eve going up against college bowl games.

[casualfan]

The first real litmus test will be the opening day marathon on New Year's Eve going up against college bowl games.

I hope that's not the real litmus test. No way they get decent ratings going up against decent football games.

[xsteve1]

Depends on what other events on the network are drawing.

New venture. Let's give it some time.

Exactly. We're a month into it and Brew's already calling it as a failure. He seems to bash the Big East any chance he gets. I get he likes UD (maybe sour grapes) but give the Big East some time. Next years recruiting by the league is extremely impressive and in the near future should pay big dividends. I wonder what ESPN's ratings were when they first launched?

[Masterofreality]

Exactly. We're a month into it and Brew's already calling it as a failure. He seems to bash the Big East any chance he gets. I get he likes UD (maybe sour grapes) but give the Big East some time. Next years recruiting by the league is extremely impressive and in the near future should pay big dividends. I wonder what ESPN's ratings were when they first launched?

Lousy. They were barely on the radar screen. They built their brand on college basketball, but really didn't get any eyeballs until they started televising conference tournament Championship Week in 1986. Even though they had NCAA Tournament games as early as 1980, no one watched them because they were played during working hours.

There was a lot of SportsCenter and novelty sports like roller derby, Australian Rules Football, shuffleboard and demolition derby..a sort of expanded "Wide World of Sports" if you will. I'll say this, though. I'll never forget that ESPN televised a Xavier/Oklahoma City U game from Schmidt Fieldhouse in 1982- the first time XU had been on a national TV broadcast since 1971. I'll give them that.

[X-band '01]

I hope that's not the real litmus test. No way they get decent ratings going up against decent football games.

There's going to be competition for ratings all the way from December 31 going up to March. From that standpoint, it's going to hurt in the short term while Villanova is the only team currently ranked in the Top 25.

[casualfan]

There's going to be competition for ratings all the way from December 31 going up to March. From that standpoint, it's going to hurt in the short term while Villanova is the only team currently ranked in the Top 25.

I understand that and have made that point many times throughout the threads talking about FS1.

My point is that I don't understand why you'd make the day when they'll face the stiffest competition the litmus test. It makes 0 sense to look at a day where everyone traditionally watches football to say that is the litmus test.

[floorsweeper]

That and the slate of games on the network aren't going to draw anyone outside of Big East diehards. Is it fair to expect games like Xavier-Abilene Christian, DePaul-Southern Miss and Butler-UND to draw lots of viewers?

The first real litmus test will be the opening day marathon on New Year's Eve going up against college bowl games.


12:30 PM Arizona vs. Boston College*

2:00 PM Virginia Tech vs. No. 17 UCLA*

4:00 PM Rice vs. Mississippi State*

8:00 PM No. 24 Duke vs. No. 21 Texas A&M*

So which of those four outstanding Bowl Games will the sports nation be riveted on. I don't see a single game I would even watch or care about.

[Juice]

12:30 PM Arizona vs. Boston College*

2:00 PM Virginia Tech vs. No. 17 UCLA*

4:00 PM Rice vs. Mississippi State*

8:00 PM No. 24 Duke vs. No. 21 Texas A&M*

So which of those four outstanding Bowl Games will the sports nation be riveted on. I don't see a single game I would even watch or care about.

Americans will watch any football game over any basketball game. It doesn't matter if it's a good football game. They will watch it.

[X-band '01]

That and the slate of games on the network aren't going to draw anyone outside of Big East diehards. Is it fair to expect games like Xavier-Abilene Christian, DePaul-Southern Miss and Butler-UND to draw lots of viewers?

The first real litmus test will be the opening day marathon on New Year's Eve going up against college bowl games.


I understand that and have made that point many times throughout the threads talking about FS1.

My point is that I don't understand why you'd make the day when they'll face the stiffest competition the litmus test. It makes 0 sense to look at a day where everyone traditionally watches football to say that is the litmus test.

Look closer at what I originally said; December 31 isn't going to be the sole indicator of how well the network gets ratings (or doesn't). It will be the first day of league competition; that's when you start to get the better games on the tube for Fox Sports 1. Even when the bowl games are overwith, you're still going to be going up against other games (Big 10, ACC, Big 12, etc.) on the mothership along with the A-10 and C-USA on the CBS/NBC Sports Networks.

[xubrew]

Exactly. We're a month into it and Brew's already calling it as a failure. He seems to bash the Big East any chance he gets. I get he likes UD (maybe sour grapes) but give the Big East some time. Next years recruiting by the league is extremely impressive and in the near future should pay big dividends. I wonder what ESPN's ratings were when they first launched?

Does it seem that way??

Bashing the Big East, and saying that it was overrated, and saying that the media was biased toward it, and that the league played nothing but cupcakes which made it look better than what it really was, that's what the majority of this board did before we joined it. I do find it funny how much better everyone now seems to think the league is, but other than that it's the same critiques and concerns that I had about the Atlantic Ten each and every year when the league would collectively lack notable out of conference wins.

Now, what I have bashed for a lot more than just the past month, is how much money the networks have forked out for TV rights, and for basketball in particular. I love college basketball, but it typically does not rate well on a national level. It draws great market shares if a team from that market is playing, but that's it. Prior to the NCAA Tournament and the tail end of the conference tournament, individual games don't rate well nationally. Part of the reason is that there are so many games on TV. Xavier vs UC will score huge in the Cincinnati market. West Virginia vs Marshall will do great in the state of West Virginia. New Mexico vs Kansas will do tremendously well all throughout those two states, and maybe even parts of Missouri, but it won't get a huge national rating. BYU vs Utah will do great in Utah. That's just how college basketball typically works.

You can't compare Fox Sports 1 to ESPN when it first launched. Fox is not a new brand. ESPN struggled early, but ESPNU didn't, ESPN Classic didn't, and ESPN2 didn't. If they were to launch another ESPN network, I don't think it would struggle to do well.

So, Fox goes out and pays a half billion bucks for the Big East. When you fork out that kind of money, you don't want to hear about how the OOC games aren't interesting so the first two months of the season are a wash, or about how there are bowl games going on and that knocked the ratings down, or about how no teams were in the rankings and that hurt ratings. When networks pay that kind of money, they want a return on their investments, and they want the ratings to match at least what the lower tier bowls are drawing.

So, yes, I think Fox overpaid. I think a lot of networks overpaid. I don't think they'll pay nearly as much next time. Basketball just doesn't churn out huge national ratings. I think the biggest reason is that there are so many teams and so many games, and people really only care about their own game. Do you honestly care about Kansas vs New Mexico?? Will you watch it?? Probably not. That's how most people feel who aren't Kansas or New Mexico fans. That's how most feel about any of the Big East teams. That's the way it is with everything. Prior to the NCAA Tournament, college basketball draws well in markets when a team from that market is playing, and that's it. I don't think most of the networks considered that, I think they are going to feel that they overpaid big time for it, and I don't think they'll do it again.

.....and I've been saying that for a lot longer than just the past month.

[Masterofreality]

You can't compare Fox Sports 1 to ESPN when it first launched. Fox is not a new brand. ESPN struggled early, but ESPNU didn't, ESPN Classic didn't, and ESPN2 didn't. If they were to launch another ESPN network, I don't think it would struggle to do well.


With all due respect, Brew, the only thing that makes the main ESPN network rate is the NFL. Fully half of their total viewer for the week are from Monday Night Football. ESPN2, ESPNU and Classic still have low viewership. None of those are even close to the Top 25 in cable network rankings as to viewers.

What Fox has done is leverage their multi-network power to get advertisers. For example, since they have the Super Bowl this year, they can offer a multi-platform campaign that, while ads during the game itself stand on their own, advertisers can get priority exposure on the pre and post game shows if they agree to an enhanced package that would appear on FS1, FS2, Fox Soccer, and maybe even Fox News and Fox Business as well as the main network. What all of these networks need, however, is content, and college sports are much more economical than the huge rights that major pro leagues demand.

Don't worry, Fox is doing fine. However, if someone tried to start a new independent Sports Channel now, such as CSTV a few years ago, they would get destroyed. As it is, CSTV was acquired by CBS to form CBS Sports Network.

Trust me, these media companies know what they have..and what they're doing.

[GoMuskies]

St. Peters beat FDU AND Seton Hall, so I guess they are state champs of New Jersey.

[Masterofreality]

St. Peters beat FDU AND Seton Hall, so I guess they are state champs of New Jersey.

Seton Hall made a miracle 3 to tie the game in regulation, then played one of the stupidest OT periods ever. St. Peters had no one who could guard Teague, but Sina, their PG made bonehead play after bonehead play.

[xubrew]

Can we put Seton Hall and DePaul on waivers?? Please?? We don't even need a replacement. We'll just play with eight. I'd rather play four more OOC games than play those clowns.

[GoMuskies]

I know it's early, but our Big East buddies are making me a bit nervous tonight. Providence is tied with Yale at the half, and Georgetown is trailing Elon late in the first half. Elon!

Granted, not much room for Xavier fans to talk given our performances against BGSU and Evansville. As long as you get in the win column, alll is forgiven.

[XUFan09]

As long as you get in the win column, alll is forgiven.

Except by Kenpom, Sagarin, etc. ;-)

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[X-band '01]

In the words of announcer Gary Thorne, Providence set a new Hockey East record (I'm not making this up) with 32 straight non-conference wins at home.