The Streetcar Series

[paulxu]

I got an idea you idiots. Bring the game back on campus where it belongs.
And it's the Shootout...not some other name.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10001891/xavier-musketeers-cincinnati-bearcats-want-continue-basketball-rivalry

[coasterville95]

And on the tickets Xavier sent me yesterday it is called the "Crosstown Showdown".

[Seven Eighths]

There was a time when I would have hated to see the game discontinued. I love beating UC. Over the last 15 or so years, XU's program has become the better program and while UC can do well out of the AAC like they did out of the GMC and CUSA, they are now a mid major program with a coach that is no where near as good as Huggins. I would be okay if the series ended if XU replaces UC with a premier non conference annual game that would get us on national TV, like OSU, UK, Louisville or IU. Otherwise, I hope it is continued in the manner it was played for years successfully alternating on the program's on campus facilities.

[Milhouse]

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=661970&page=2

uc perspective, none of them want to come back to cintas.

I imagine they view it like we view UD arena. Fair maybe but ridiculous hyperbole. The moorehead state fan I sat next to the other night had nothing but great things to say about the atmosphere.

End of the day. They need this game more than us. Play us home and home or don't play us. We're in an elite conference now.

[Caveat]

Common sense is the first casualty on Bearcat Banter.

[xubrew]

There was a time when I would have hated to see the game discontinued. I love beating UC. Over the last 15 or so years, XU's program has become the better program and while UC can do well out of the AAC like they did out of the GMC and CUSA, they are now a mid major program with a coach that is no where near as good as Huggins. I would be okay if the series ended if XU replaces UC with a premier non conference annual game that would get us on national TV, like OSU, UK, Louisville or IU. Otherwise, I hope it is continued in the manner it was played for years successfully alternating on the program's on campus facilities.

So essentially you don't want the series to end, because none of those teams will play Xavier home and home. Louisville and Kentucky won't play Indiana home and home anymore. They sure as hell aren't going to play Xavier.

[Ledgewood]

Sanctimonious UC fans = the funniest thing I've heard in a long time, and I listen to a lot of funny podcasts.

[Juice]

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=661970&page=2

uc perspective, none of them want to come back to cintas.

I imagine they view it like we view UD arena. Fair maybe but ridiculous hyperbole. The moorehead state fan I sat next to the other night had nothing but great things to say about the atmosphere.

End of the day. They need this game more than us. Play us home and home or don't play us. We're in an elite conference now.

The difference between XU/UD and XU/UC though is that although UC is the "bigger" program in town, X has actually been the better program over the last 10-15 years. At least when X fans look down on UD's program it's based on actual results. UC fans are just butthurt.

[Seven Eighths]

So essentially you don't want the series to end, because none of those teams will play Xavier home and home. Louisville and Kentucky won't play Indiana home and home anymore. They sure as hell aren't going to play Xavier.

If and I know it's a big IF, XU could get one of the programs I mentioned (Duke, UNC would work as well) to replace UC, I wouldn't care if we ever played UC again, no matter where it was going to be played.

Otherwise, I want to continue the series in the manner it was played for the last 10 years prior to the brawl and not at any neutral sites.

[anXUfan]

I guess I don't really care that much anymore. I'm tired of the bitching and complaining surrounding the game. X has beaten UC so often it doesn't even feel like a special accomplishment. There would be more novelty to playing a team we rarely see.

I hate having this game outside the season ticket package.

[Titanxman04]

I'd rather play the Shockers of WSU than play UC. Play a program thats up and coming and provides good RPI. UC's RPI will tank in the AAC, and their program will begin to lose value year by year. No one wants them. We don't need a Duke or UK to play. It'd be nice, but no way we'd get a home and home and the occasional neutral site game with them would be welcome. There are plenty of schools out there that are worth a home-and-home series that would be beneficial to us.

Our banners and championships are already showing we're the better program in recent years. The past two decades, X has been on the serious upswing. UC has been muddling around on the island of misfit mascots, wishing someone would want them and begging to be recognized as one of the worthy.

They may have numbers. But even a large army with inferior tools will fall to the smaller army that has all the weapons.

If they won't play us at the Cintas, then those cowards across town need to find another tournament team to play them.

Also, I love how they think they are our Super Bowl. Yeah, we've moved on. They used to be, but they're so stuck on their island, that they don't realized we've moved on. Why even show legitimacy to their program by playing them? Allow their downward spiral to continue while we keep climbing.

[waggy]

I think it would be really really dumb to let this series end. It's X's truest rival. The rivalry cannot be replicated. It cannot be manufactured, or re-manufactured.

Bobinski understood this, and wouldn't permit it to end on his watch.

Neutral or home/home, just find a way to continue the series regardless.

[paulxu]

All you need to know is that UC's enrollment is 8-10X Xavier's, their arena seats 30% more butts....and their average attendance is less than Xavier's at their basketball games. Which makes sense as they are a lesser program. No other information necessary.

[xubrew]

They're not going to end the series. If neither side wants to end it, then they won't end it.

I don't think they'll move it back to campus, though. I don't have any proof of that. It's just a hunch. It's out of the hands of the coaches, administrators and athletic directors. It's going to be decided by the university presidents and boards of trustees members, and they'll have their own reasons for doing whatever it is they end up doing. Their outlooks on this are entirely different than what a fan's, a coach's, or an administrator's outlook would be.

Being cynical, I think the thought process will be this. What makes people at the university level feel the most good about themselves??

They moved it downtown because they were convinced that they had to fix a problem. They don't want to acknowledge that they were not able to fix a problem unless they have to. They sure as hell don't want to state that there was no problem in the first place because that would lessen their feelings of self importance. So, in their minds, they fixed a problem, it worked, and they need to keep doing it because they made it better than it was before.

[X-man]

Make it back on campus, or get rid of it. If both sides are entrenched in polar opposite positions here, the Shootout must be ended...period.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I think what people seem to be forgetting is that collegiate sports is a money driven thing. If it makes money, it makes sense. What we have right now is a 180 degree switch. XU has moved into a much better conference than UC is in right now. UC's conference will only get worse with departures and less than favorable additions. Fact is the value of each program are going in different directions regardless of what you see on the court.

[nuts4xu]

The shootout is not going to end. There is too much at stake for both schools, and too much drama to take place if they were to stop playing each other.

Neither school wants to end the series that I am aware. But both want it to take place their way....Xavier wants it back on campus, and I believe UC wants to play it downtown all the time.

They should play the game and donate the funds to the Streetcar project. They could call it the Streetcar Series and it would at least be a cause that people have a side to root for. No one cares about the Underground Museum, and it's pending doom. You want to talk about a terrible project that took place with a huge annual operating budget, the Underground Railroad museum was a far worse proposition than the streetcar. The only people that visit the museum are kids on field trips. Even the street car would see more action than that place.

[Milhouse]

Looks like they picked up my post over there. They are now on red alert and melting down. :) Can't wait to cheer on THE big east team of Cincinnati in a few weeks.

[SM#24]

If and I know it's a big IF, XU could get one of the programs I mentioned (Duke, UNC would work as well) to replace UC, I wouldn't care if we ever played UC again, no matter where it was going to be played.

Otherwise, I want to continue the series in the manner it was played for the last 10 years prior to the brawl and not at any neutral sites.

To echo Brew, the existence of UC on our schedule is not what's keeping us from having a h/h series with UK,UL,OSU,UNC,Duke,IU

[Bmuskie]

Me Personally I want the series to be cancelled. Aside from all the points made about the program direction and getting better teams on the schedule, nothing Good ever comes from this game. From an RPI standpoint it may be ok however when the selection committee sits down and looks at Xavier's schedule (& UC's) they throw this game and the results of it out as they chalk it up to "a rivalry game. Therefore anything can happen". As well, we have seen in the past that when Xavier wins the game the talking heads in this city consider the game to be "awful" and "An embarassing display of basketball in Cincinnati". We have also seen that any altercation that has happened in this game (whether it is the fight 2 years ago or the yelling matches 4 years ago or TJ johnson getting stepped on, or even Walt "TWA" McBride getting pucnhed in the face) is always construed to be Xavier's fault. nothing good ever comes of it . Cancel it.

[Seven Eighths]

To echo Brew, the existence of UC on our schedule is not what's keeping us from having a h/h series with UK,UL,OSU,UNC,Duke,IU

I realize that.

[MCXU]

From what I can tell it's X that wants it back on campus, and UC that wants it at US Bank... Correct?

This makes no sense to me. In a year, after Louisville leaves the AAC, UC will be left with an even poorer home schedule to offer their season ticket holders. Wouldn't they want a "rivalry game" every 2 years to help sell season tickets. The games at US bank do nothing to increase season ticket numbers as anyone can buy them.

What am I missing? There must be another reason they want it downtown, I just don't see it.

[boozehound]

From what I can tell it's X that wants it back on campus, and UC that wants it at US Bank... Correct?

This makes no sense to me. In a year, after Louisville leaves the AAC, UC will be left with an even poorer home schedule to offer their season ticket holders. Wouldn't they want a "rivalry game" every 2 years to help sell season tickets. The games at US bank do nothing to increase season ticket numbers as anyone can buy them.

What am I missing? There must be another reason they want it downtown, I just don't see it.

Nobody goes to UC home games. Maybe that's why they don't want it back on campus.

[XULucho27]

Personally, I have been to ONE sporting event in my life where I felt unsafe: it was in Argentina for a game between to clubs who have one of the nastiest rivalries in the world (not hyperbole).

I really don't know what could have occurred at an X-UC game, absent a near beating in the stands or fans rushing the court, that leads a person to conclude that there is an inherit danger to rival fans and opposing players. Even crazier is the assertion that the behavior has been ongoing for years! Yet, time and again when talking about 'the Brawl' (cue horrified gasps) and referencing the future of the series many UC fans firmly believe they and they're players are in danger or at risk of grievous bodily harm. I just don't see it.

Oh well, to paraphrase Bryon: "[they're] just saying that because [they] lose every year. If I got my butt kicked, I'd say the same thing."

[Bmuskie]

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=661970&page=2

uc perspective, none of them want to come back to cintas.

I imagine they view it like we view UD arena. Fair maybe but ridiculous hyperbole. The moorehead state fan I sat next to the other night had nothing but great things to say about the atmosphere.

End of the day. They need this game more than us. Play us home and home or don't play us. We're in an elite conference now.

I have to say I don't want to go back to UC anytime soon either. From getting ice thrown at me, a beverage of some sort thrown at me, the F-bomb every 2 minutes, the "F%^& XU!" chant by the students, Seeing their students throw all sorts of things at the players as they try to leave, and having my car keyed, no way do I want to go back there. Talk to Pitino at Louisville. He talks about how classless their fans are every year after the game. (even Boeheim commented on it 2 years ago). The game is just filled with too much Negative Emotion and fans cheering against the other team not for their team.

[Caveat]

The game is good for both schools and the city.

Also, I can't get too worked up about what UC fans say on a message board. I'd be irrational too if my season tickets suddenly included games against Tulane, East Carolina, SMU and Houston.

[throwbackmuskie]

I am in the on campus or no series camp.

[Muskie]

I believe UC believes they will always be able to outsell us at USBANK. So it will always be home court advantage to them.

[LA Muskie]

I think that people on this board have a tendency to exaggerate (i) how amazing the new Big East is; (ii) how bad the AAC is; and (iii) how much better XU's program has been over UC in the recent past; and (iv) how much the "recent past" matters in the grand scheme of things.

I say that not because none of those things isn't true (they are all true), but rather because we have a tendency to blow things out of proportion in these parts.

The XU/UC rivalry is great. It was better on campus, but it can be great on a neutral local site. The notion that we should dump it because "now we can" is short-sighted and cocky. And it ignores all the good that comes of the game -- to the schools and to the city.

[paulxu]

What am I missing? There must be another reason they want it downtown, I just don't see it.

http://ohiopresspass.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/large_MickCroninCincinnatiNotreDame.jpg

[GoMuskies]

I think we should continue to play the game forever. But only if it goes back to campus. Playing downtown is stupid.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Sorry guys, but East Carolina/Tulsa/Houston/Tulane won't be better than Seton Hall/Providence/Depaul. You can even add UCF/USF in there as well. That is a lot of 100+ RPI teams to play twice a year. Not to mention Memphis having extreme difficulty beating top 25 teams, Louisville and Rutgers leaving for greener pasture, and that all adds up to a dramatically diminished conference. The one clear thing here though is that what UC might lack for TV and marketing revenue Ohio Taxpayers will make up the difference.

[xubrew]

The shootout is not going to end. There is too much at stake for both schools, and too much drama to take place if they were to stop playing each other.

Neither school wants to end the series that I am aware. But both want it to take place their way....Xavier wants it back on campus, and I believe UC wants to play it downtown all the time.

I understand that the Xavier fans want it on campus. I'm pretty sure the Xavier coaches would like it on campus as well (at least they've said as much). But, what makes you think Father Graham and the BOT want it on campus?? I'm not so sure that they do.

The conception is that UC forced us to go down there. I don't think they had to force us because once it was taken out of the hands of the athletic departments and put in the hands of people at the university level, I'm not so sure they wanted it on campus all that badly. I think they were more concerned about wanting to appear to be doing something necessary and important (in their minds) than anything else.

Now, I don't know any of this for certain, but that is the sense I get. For starters, there wasn't much of a standoff. Both camps came out and almost instantly were in support of it. I don't think our B.O.T. is going to take the approach of it being moved back to campus, or it not being played at all. That's just not how someone who sits on a Board of Trustees thinks, at least not in my experience. They probably don't really care if it ever returns to campus or not.

The statement that got me was "This game doesn't belong to Xavier, and it doesn't belong to UC. It belongs to the city." That's paraphrase, but that's pretty much word for word what I heard during the TV broadcast last year, and it came from someone at Xavier. That doesn't sound like someone who is anxious to move the series back to campus, since the game belongs to the entire city.

[Ledgewood]

The statement that got me was "This game doesn't belong to Xavier, and it doesn't belong to UC. It belongs to the city."

God I hate that quote. I completely disagree with it. It belongs to Xavier and UC. Others may enjoy it, but it's ours. Rivalry games are for those that are passionate about it. How effing stupid.

[GoMuskies]

The statement that got me was "This game doesn't belong to Xavier, and it doesn't belong to UC. It belongs to the city." That's paraphrase, but that's pretty much word for word what I heard during the TV broadcast last year, and it came from someone at Xavier. That doesn't sound like someone who is anxious to move the series back to campus, since the game belongs to the entire city.

Something that fucking stupid must have come from Luther Smith.

[nuts4xu]

I haven't spoken to any of our BOT, but the sense I have received in speaking with Greg Christopher and others at the university, is that our preference is to play the game on campus if at all possible. I don't believe it would have been possible the past 2 years because of the brawl. Xavier and UC both wanted to put some distance between the game and those events.

I believe we will push to have it back on campus, but if it is downtown or no where....we will play it downtown.

[paulxu]

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that there was a fight at a sporting event, between two teams...and the response was to move the game to a different location.

Think about that for a second. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. There are fights all the time between teams at sporting events. Hell, in hockey some joker decided to make it an integral part of the sport. The next time a scrum breaks out in Cleveland between the Windians and some visiting team...are they moving the game to a neutral site the next year? Or a football game?

I understand Pussycat fans are stupid...but the rest of these people are idiots.

[xubrew]

I haven't spoken to any of our BOT, but the sense I have received in speaking with Greg Christopher and others at the university, is that our preference is to play the game on campus if at all possible. I don't believe it would have been possible the past 2 years because of the brawl. Xavier and UC both wanted to put some distance between the game and those events.

I believe we will push to have it back on campus, but if it is downtown or no where....we will play it downtown.

Okay, that makes sense.

As far as the quote about it belonging to the city, I watched the game on TV and I swear I heard the announcer say that. They mentioned what an ugly incident the brawl had been, how both sides got together to decide what to do about it, and that they even looked into cancelling it, but decided not to.

....and then, they dropped that quote on us about how the game belonged to the city, and they attributed it to someone from Xavier.

If no one else remembers that then I could be wrong, and I don't have it on tape or anything, but I could swear that's what I heard.

Then again, that was my last day of work before Christmas, so maybe I was in the spirit and confusing things.

[MuskieCinci]

I just get really annoyed by how both fanbases are trying to treat this game now by who needs it less.

Typical Xavier fan, "If they are too scared to play it on campus, let's just end the series. They are a mid-major now and we are in the Big East. They should need the home games."

Typical UC fan, "If they want to play it on the campuses instead of downtown then let's just end it. I don't want our players going into Cintas and getting injured. It is such a violent atmosphere!"

I don't give a crap if UC plays in the MAAC, they are still our truest rival and in the same city as us. Even during their down years they were still decent and while they haven't been making any Final Fours lately they haven't been slouches. This game is all about the rivalry and bragging rights within the city.

Both teams need this game, it would be incredibly stupid to end it because of the fight. It is one of the most intense rivalries in college basketball, and I think things like rivalries are what make college sports great. I would hate to see it end because both parties took a hard stance of, "The game needs to be played in this location or we'll walk away."

[waggy]

Exactly MuskieCinci. This is a big city urban rivalry between very good, sometimes great programs. There aren't a lot of these.

Cintas didn't even exist, what 11 years ago? The idea that the game is ruined because it isn't on campus is a joke of an argument.

[xubrew]

Exactly MuskieCinci. This is a big city urban rivalry between very good, sometimes great programs. There aren't a lot of these.

Cintas didn't even exist, what 11 years ago? The idea that the game is ruined because it isn't on campus is a joke of an argument.

Holy crap. I actually 100% agree with Waggy.

[LA Muskie]

Holy crap. I actually 100% agree with Waggy.

Ditto.

[xeus]

The idea that the game is ruined because it isn't on campus is a joke of an argument.

I agree that the Crosstown Shootout should continue, but I would prefer that it be a home and home series, alternating annually between each school's chosen home site - which may or may not be "on campus".

I think a rivalry series like this deserves the element of a "home game" environment every other year. That's why I don't like the Shootout being at a neutral site. If UC wants their home site for this series to be US Bank Arena, fine - but they only get that option every other year.

[paulxu]

I'm with Xeus...we'll, at least until they move the Bengals to Nippert because a fight broke out at Paul Brown.

[LadyMuskie]

I love the Shootout. Someday, I hope and dream that it will be played again. Until such time as it is (which means UC plays at Cintas and X plays at whatever name happens to grace the box they call an arena), it is dead to me. Dead. It's less like a rivalry game now and more like when you (Xavier) let your kid (UC) win at a game to appease them, keep them from crying and whining, and help build their self esteem so that someday down the road they'll (UC) hopefully become well-adjusted, productive members of society (UC gets its collective head out of its ass, stops being a sore loser, and recognizes we own them and yes they are pathetic but that's no reason to punk out.)

[Ledgewood]

Exactly MuskieCinci. This is a big city urban rivalry between very good, sometimes great programs. There aren't a lot of these.

Cintas didn't even exist, what 11 years ago? The idea that the game is ruined because it isn't on campus is a joke of an argument.

But it was still played on home courts, right? I don't ever want it to end, but they are trying their best to water it down and make it not feel like a rivalry game cuz some people lost their cool. I really really don't want it to end, but just put it on campus. If something happens again, then scrap the whole thing. Now I'm gonna go youtube ESPN promos of UNC/Duke games highlighting a bloody Tyler Hansbrough and an altercation that happened in 2003. Everything's dumb. Let's run away. I'm going to Mexico and becoming a bullfighter.

[X-band '01]

Why stop there, You should also put together Andy Furman's interview with Sean Kilpatrick and Paul Daugherty's pre-Shootout column. Why should the media ever hold themselves accountable (except the esteemed Q)?

[Ledgewood]

Why stop there, You should also put together Andy Furman's interview with Sean Kilpatrick and Paul Daugherty's pre-Shootout column. Why should the media ever hold themselves accountable (except the esteemed Q)?

Why should the team who had a player start swinging fists widely for about 2 minutes be held accountable?

[X-man]

I haven't spoken to any of our BOT, but the sense I have received in speaking with Greg Christopher and others at the university, is that our preference is to play the game on campus if at all possible. I don't believe it would have been possible the past 2 years because of the brawl. Xavier and UC both wanted to put some distance between the game and those events.

I believe we will push to have it back on campus, but if it is downtown or no where....we will play it downtown.

Your hunch is correct. XU wants it back on campus, and uc doesn't. The (true) reason is obvious; uc, with its larger local alumni base, expects that every downtown game will be a home game for them. And Sippin' Mick clearly believes that as well, and he is tired of losing to his crosstown "little brother" (as uc fans like to call XU, for no reality-based reason). And frankly, I suspect that this is also the reason Xavier wants it back on campus as well. We have a much better chance of winning at the Cintas every other year than if the game is downtown every year.

If both schools are entrenched in their positions, which I also suspect is true, the series should be allowed to die. The Shootout was attractive for X fans when it was part of our season ticket package and played at home where we can be loud and proud; not so much at the dump known as USBank Arena.

[xumuskies08]

Compromise. XU wants it on campus and UC wants it downtown, correct? Let's alternate between Cintas and US Bank then. Everybody gets what they want!

Seriously though. Anybody who wants the series to end needs to have their head examined. UC is our biggest rival no matter what conference they're in and I'd like to think we are their biggest rival (despite what their fans claim). It is a marquee event for the city and there isn't another school XU (or UC) could schedule that could replace UC (and vice versa) short of KU, IU, UK, Duke which isn't going to happen.

I would like to see the Shootout return to campus for the greedy fact that every other year it would be included in XU's season ticket package. Paying extra to see a "home game" downtown makes no sense to me. Neither school has 8,000 season ticket holders. They could include tickets to the Shootout in each schools season ticket package and still be able to sell individual tickets.

[Muskie1000]

Your hunch is correct. XU wants it back on campus, and uc doesn't. The (true) reason is obvious; uc, with its larger local alumni base, expects that every downtown game will be a home game for them. And Sippin' Mick clearly believes that as well, and he is tired of losing to his crosstown "little brother" (as uc fans like to call XU, for no reality-based reason). And frankly, I suspect that this is also the reason Xavier wants it back on campus as well. We have a much better chance of winning at the Cintas every other year than if the game is downtown every year.

If both schools are entrenched in their positions, which I also suspect is true, the series should be allowed to die. The Shootout was attractive for X fans when it was part of our season ticket package and played at home where we can be loud and proud; not so much at the dump known as USBank Arena.


I'm not saying that other Xavier fans don't feel this way but I certainly don't. I want it back on campus for 2 reasons (1) I enjoyed it being part of my season ticket package. I buy my tickets every year and don't then want to have to shell out money for yet another game that should be a part of my package. (2) I have no desire to go to US Bank Arena. I don't think I've ever gone to any of the games that they've had there - whether it be UC or Illinois (I think that was one of the games we had there). Its a hole and not enjoyable for basketball.

[X-man]

I'm not saying that other Xavier fans don't feel this way but I certainly don't. I want it back on campus for 2 reasons (1) I enjoyed it being part of my season ticket package. I buy my tickets every year and don't then want to have to shell out money for yet another game that should be a part of my package. (2) I have no desire to go to US Bank Arena. I don't think I've ever gone to any of the games that they've had there - whether it be UC or Illinois (I think that was one of the games we had there). Its a hole and not enjoyable for basketball.

I agree with your point. The second paragraph of my post which you cite makes that abundantly clear.

[nuts4xu]

I don't think I've ever gone to any of the games that they've had there - whether it be UC or Illinois (I think that was one of the games we had there). Its a hole and not enjoyable for basketball.

If you haven't been to any of our games there, how do you know it is not enjoyable for basketball?

I understand why people don't want to pay extra money for home games played anywhere but Cintas Center, but I didn't have that big of a problem with US Bank Arena itself when we played there. They have cushioned seats, sell good beers, and it's right next to the Banks where there is great food and drinks for before and afterwards. The A-10 tournament played down there was great (especially when we won it) and I enjoyed Xavier Nation taking over entire bars downtown.

[Lamont Sanford]

I'm also in the camp of playing the game at "home arenas". If UC chooses to designate the US Bank Arena as their "home" for that game when they are the host, then so be it.

The fact that it is played at USB now is due to the chickenshits at UC who are now scared to enter the Cintas Center where they might get stomped on and/or sucker punched by their own student-athletes.

[paulxu]

If you haven't been to any of our games there, how do you know it is not enjoyable for basketball?

Are you saying things I read on the internet aren't true? You're not saying that...are you?

[outsideobserver11]

Are you saying things I read on the internet aren't true? You're not saying that...are you?

"Here comes my date. He's a French model."

[xufan2434]

If you haven't been to any of our games there, how do you know it is not enjoyable for basketball?

I understand why people don't want to pay extra money for home games played anywhere but Cintas Center, but I didn't have that big of a problem with US Bank Arena itself when we played there. They have cushioned seats, sell good beers, and it's right next to the Banks where there is great food and drinks for before and afterwards. The A-10 tournament played down there was great (especially when we won it) and I enjoyed Xavier Nation taking over entire bars downtown.

Completely agree.. I don't get the animosity towards playing the game down there. I agree that I love it in a home and home series. But the fact is that the fight caused a terrible spotlight on the series to which neither school was nowhere near ready for. Let a couple years pass and the fight disappear and enjoy the game all the same till it can return.

For those who hate games at US Bank, you clearly weren't there when X beat the crap out of Michael Beasley and K-State. As Nuts said as well, when X beat St Joes in the A-10 final and rushed the court, the atmosphere was nuts. Instead of crying about the game being there, how about X outnumbers UC fans there and takes the arena over. Have you ever heard UC take over an arena with a cheer like X's fight song or "Let's Go X"? Cause I haven't

[GoMuskies]

For those who hate games at US Bank, you clearly weren't there when X beat the crap out of Michael Beasley and K-State.

I was there. The atmosphere kind of blew. The joint was half empty, and the game was over by the first TV timeout of the first half.

[xufan2434]

I was there. The atmosphere kind of blew. The joint was half empty, and the game was over by the first TV timeout of the first half.

It was still a nationally televised game, and X beat a good team that was coached by Huggy Bear.. I don't know what's not to love. I'll take that over them not coming to Cincy at all.

[GoMuskies]

Huggy Bear was long gone. Frank Martin was coaching the Wildcats. And they weren't ranked. They sucked.

[GoMuskies]

Just checked the article, and it was worse than I thought. The crowd was 5,233. Big time!

[xufan2434]

Yeah realized right after I posted that it was after Huggins left. Still had 2 NBA players in their starting 5.

[casualfan]

I'm obviously in the minority, but I actually like the idea of the game downtown at least as much if not more than having it on campus.

Why you ask?

Because I'm selfish. Having the game downtown every year ensures I will be there. Could I get tix when they play at 5/3? Probably. Would I go through the trouble? Probably not.

As Nuts mentioned I thought the atmosphere was great last year with the split fan bases (other than our side not being close to full) and with the game being downtown it opens up a whole lot of easily accessible pre and postgame options.

[Ledgewood]

I think we're plenty far away from the incident to return to the way it was. Or maybe we should call it a "leaping field goal attempt" instead of a jump shot. Can't say shot! That's what a gun does!

It's Cintas or GTFO.

[SM#24]

How about a 3 year rotation, 5/3, Cintas, US Bank ?

I think they should add a new wrinkle, instead of the postgame handshake line, the losing team needs to lay on the floor in a row while the winning team players take out their weiners and piss on them.

[xufan2434]

I think we're plenty far away from the incident to return to the way it was. Or maybe we should call it a "leaping field goal attempt" instead of a jump shot. Can't say shot! That's what a gun does!

It's Cintas or GTFO.

I would love it to return to home and home, I just don't see it happening for at least another year. Is that going to stop you though from going to the game this year?

[Ledgewood]

I would love it to return to home and home, I just don't see it happening for at least another year. Is that going to stop you though from going to the game this year?

Oh I was sorta talking about next season, after this game I say bring it back.

Living in Cleveland is probably what is giong to stop me from going. Also being broke.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Move it back to campus or drop it. US Bank is a complete dump and has been for 10+ years

[X-man]

I was there. The atmosphere kind of blew. The joint was half empty, and the game was over by the first TV timeout of the first half.

I was there too, and the arena is horrible. But it was a great game regardless. Now why does that fact have anything to do with the question at hand?

[GoMuskies]

I was there too, and the arena is horrible. But it was a great game regardless. Now why does that fact have anything to do with the question at hand?

Because someone else brought up the K-State series.

DC Muskie was a HUGE fan of that series from day one if you recall. I'm surprised they didn't call it the DC Muskie Invitational.

By the way, when I Googled the Beasley game, this is the link I got. Stupid Kansans! http://cjonline.com/stories/010108/cat_230653781.shtml

[xubrew]

I think not including it in the season ticket package was a mistake. Both XU and UC could include the game in their season ticket package every year if they keep it at US Bank.

I liked the idea of playing it downtown. I liked the idea of moving it downtown long before the brawl because I like the idea of creating an NCAA Tournament atmosphere. A big rivalry game between two good teams, student sections behind each basket, season ticket holders from both schools getting tickets every year, and a bigger crowd which makes the game more accessible. It wasn't hard at all for me to imagine this being a huge success. There aren't many games like that, but the ones that do exist are great (Crossroads Series, Illinois v Missouri, the Big Five, etc).

But, it didn't work. They didn't even sell the game out. I can't believe that the Shootout didn't sell out. If Kentucky were playing Ohio State, I guarantee you the place would sell out in a nanosecond, and neither of those teams are local to Cincinnati.

So, it's hard to argue that it wasn't disappointing.

[X-man]

Because someone else brought up the K-State series.

DC Muskie was a HUGE fan of that series from day one if you recall. I'm surprised they didn't call it the DC Muskie Invitational.

By the way, when I Googled the Beasley game, this is the link I got. Stupid Kansans! http://cjonline.com/stories/010108/cat_230653781.shtml

The question really wasn't addressed to you, but was rather a rhetorical question. Sorry for the confusion. You and I seem to be on the same page in this one.

[paulxu]

I was there. The atmosphere kind of blew. The joint was half empty, and the game was over by the first TV timeout of the first half.

I always believe what Go writes on the intertubes.

[casualfan]

But, it didn't work. They didn't even sell the game out. I can't believe that the Shootout didn't sell out. If Kentucky were playing Ohio State, I guarantee you the place would sell out in a nanosecond, and neither of those teams are local to Cincinnati.

So, it's hard to argue that it wasn't disappointing.

That's because a lot of Xavier fans were still butthurt after the Wells situation and/or were dreading a bad season and didn't go.

With both teams off to a fast start this year I would imagine we will see a capacity crowd and I think it's going to be a lot of fun.

[xumuskies08]

I think not including it in the season ticket package was a mistake. Both XU and UC could include the game in their season ticket package every year if they keep it at US Bank.

Exactly. I'd imagine XU has around 8,000 season ticket holders. UC probably has less than 6,000 (as evidenced by their 6,011 attendance last night). If they included the Shootout in each schools season ticket package that still leaves well over 2,000 tickets for non season ticket members. Seems like a no-brainier to me.

[xubrew]

Do any of our Philadelphia people know how Villanova and Saint Joe's do this?? Nova plays at the Pavilion, but also plays games at the Wachovia Center (or whatever they're calling it these days). Saint Joe's plays at the Fieldhouse and at the Palestra.

I'm pretty sure UConn's games that are in Hartford are included in the season ticket packages.

[xudash]

All you need to know is that UC's enrollment is 8-10X Xavier's, their arena seats 30% more butts....and their average attendance is less than Xavier's at their basketball games. Which makes sense as they are a lesser program. No other information necessary.

We've won 9 out of the last 15.

We beat them in terms of fan support, as evidenced by the attendance data for both programs.

Our NCAA Tournament success over the last decade dwarfs anything they've accomplished - last ten years seems reasonable for such a look, unless anyone wants to argue the value of a NC that took place before the Beetles got going.

They're dissing the Big East as it now exists, even though the conference just enjoyed a stellar recruiting outcome, including Xavier, which landed a Top 10 class. The agreement with Fox must really blow their minds.

Beyond that, from reading that board, you actually have some of their fans referring to Xavier as a back-up school relative to UC. That is priceless.

I can't imagine what it must be like to settle for a nondescript local public university that now has an athletic program stuck in the AAC. Somewhere there stands a nervous horse, wondering when it will get clocked by a UC grad or player.

UC: achieving small time in a big way.

[outsideobserver11]

As a UC fan the whole safety argument from a fan standpoint baffles me. I've been to several shootouts at Cintas and guess what? I had no issues at all. My life wasn't in jeopardy and was hardly even harrassed; all I got was people looking at me and my sweatshirt then acting like I was a walking case of herpes or something. However, my experience and tons of others I'm sure get over looked because they are positive and don't make for a good story. That fight was on the court between a bunch of players that are mostly gone at this point not the fans. All the fans have done is continue to puff out their chests and have a dick measuring contest like it's always been.

[Pete Delkus]

Wow,

I have to laugh. I am quite speechless about which direction the UC basketball program has chosen to follow. It's a shame, as in the past, I have been a fan of their 'Cats – I swear. As much as I always wanted to beat them at the Crosstown Shootout, I generally appreciated their toughness from a far.

Now, however, Mick has lead their team, and a portion of their fan base off the island. You have to wonder what the reasonable Bearcat clan thinks when they hear someone utter "Well, I have never been told to sit down in a game and hit with Blue and white confetti". Are you kidding me! " I think they are continuing a war on Bearcat Women"…just comical.

Seriously, I really, really, really want the game to continue. It's fun – but on campus only.

If it ends for a while, then it's Mick and crew's decision, period. This game is a campus game. However, in 7 years, when the music stops again, and UC realizes that the Big American conference is not quite the same when you replace L'vile with Georgia Southern and UCONN with Rider, the'll come back and say "Can we get that home and home again?!!?!?!"

[casualfan]

"Well, I have never been told to sit down in a game and hit with Blue and white confetti". Are you kidding me! " I think they are continuing a war on Bearcat Women"…just comical.
"

Wow, when did these happen?

Not doubting they did I just don't remember ever seeing them before.

[blobfan]

I've seen two people's lives at any risk during the shootout, once the first year it was at Cintas when a drunk UC fan tried to throw an X fan over the glass into the lower bowl but was fortunately stopped 2 rows up, and again during the brawl when a UC player attempted to stomp an X player's head while he was lying on the floor. I've considered those isolated instances of a$$ hattery but if I'm to believe the UC board, I'm wrong. Those are actually instances that should be used to vilify the entire fan base, the team in perpetuity, the administration, the university, etc, etc.

Hyperbole much?

Still, I don't like the downtown game. US Bank isn't the worse location but it is for the asking price. Give me a discount for being a season ticket holder. Give me the option to address the donated portion to a worthy cause of my choosing. I'm not really interested as it stands. I know some people like going to the Banks when restaurants are so crowded that people become pushing-line-jumping jerks (I'm talking to you middle-aged X sweatshirt wearing dude that jumped the line at Johnny Rockets last year with your 3 sons) but that's not my idea of fun.

Given how often UC fans are whining about the supposed Kenny Frease cell phone incident and the taunting of Mick's dad, I wonder if UC would agree to return to home and home if the student section were further removed from the UC bench. I think this mostly boils down to little Micky getting his feelings hurt and using the brawl as an excuse to not go back. If I were a conspiracy theorist I might suggest that the UC coaches were less aggressive at pulling their players back than they could have been primarily because they knew a fight would give them the excuse to change venues.

[Porkopolis]

Reasons I like playing the game Downtown:

1. I can walk to the arena from my apartment.

Reasons I dislike playing Downtown:

1. Everything else.