A look at Shaka Smart's Contract (with an eye towards Compensation for Chris Mack)

[Muskie]

Link (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/20/shaka-smarts-new-contract-at-virginia-commonwealth/) to details about Shaka's new contract.

"In addition to his base salary (which is about $450k) and supplemental income, the contract states Smart will receive $25,000 per year for university sponsored radio and television appearances.
Smart can be required to speak at or attend events or functions sponsored by the university, the university development office and other affiliated organizations that benefit the university directly or indirectly.
He will receive $25,000 annually for such appearances.
Other potential compensation includes $6,500 for every VCU game broadcast nationally and $3,500 per game broadcast outside the VCU or Atlantic 10 package.
Smart will receive $5,000 for a victory over a member of the ACC — four are on VCU’s schedule this season — and $2,000 for defeating Old Dominion.
If the Rams miss the NCAA tournament but are selected for the NIT, Smart will receive $2,000. He can make as much as $31,000 if VCU wins the NIT.
If the Rams win 20 or more games in a season, Smart receives a $20,000 bonus.
There also are incentives for players’ academic performances. Smart receives $4,000 for each player who graduates by the summer of the completion of his athletic eligibility and $2,000 per player for any who graduate within one year of the completion of their eligibility."

[waggy]

One good thing about public records is it can stand to embarrass other parties. But this level of detail probably hurts VCU as a candidate for BE expansion.

[LA Muskie]

One good thing about public records is it can stand to embarrass other parties. But this level of detail probably hurts VCU as a candidate for BE expansion.
Why do you say that?

[waggy]

Because I think private institutions like to keep things private. If they can.

[Fireball]

Do we really think that Mack's compensation doesn't exceed a million dollars per year? He may or may not need to be given a raise considering our new conference, but I can't believe that he doesn't clear 7 figures in compensation. He wouldn't be able to afford that house he's in if he doesn't make a whole truckload of money.

[LA Muskie]

Because I think private institutions like to keep things private. If they can.
Ah... I was focused just on the terms of the contract. Makes sense now that you explain it to me.

[Kahns Krazy]

Im a little surprised there is a bonus for beating a specific team. That seems like it could drive some behavior that wouldn't be overall best for the school.

[Masterofreality]

Do we really think that Mack's compensation doesn't exceed a million dollars per year? He may or may not need to be given a raise considering our new conference, but I can't believe that he doesn't clear 7 figures in compensation. He wouldn't be able to afford that house he's in if he doesn't make a whole truckload of money.

I can assure you that CMack's total current compensation does not exceed $900k. If he makes the NCAA Tournament, depending on the total net payout received by the University, he can get a bonus. There were outside "special considerations" to help with the house, but he didn't get it for free.

He is woefully underpaid as compared to other coaches with similar resumes. His assistants need to be paid more too.

[Titanxman04]

I can assure you that CMack's total current compensation does not exceed $900k. If he makes the NCAA Tournament, depending on the total net payout received by the University, he can get a bonus. There were outside "special considerations" to help with the house, but he didn't get it for free.

He is woefully underpaid as compared to other coaches with similar resumes. His assistants need to be paid more too.

Agreed. Mack and Co. need make more. Perhaps the new deal with Fox Sprots 1 will lend itself to funding the staff some more?

[xubrew]

There also are incentives for players’ academic performances. Smart receives $4,000 for each player who graduates by the summer of the completion of his athletic eligibility and $2,000 per player for any who graduate within one year of the completion of their eligibility."

I really don't think this should be a part of any coach's contract. Two reasons. The coaches aren't the ones who go to class and do the work, and there are a lot of rules in place to restrict their involvement anyway, so why pay out a bonus for something that they're really not supposed to have direct involvement with?? They can't initiate contact with professors, for instance.

The idea of giving someone a bonus because someone else graduated seems silly. I bet the professors, tutors, and academic support staff don't get bonuses, and they shouldn't. The coach certainly shouldn't.

[GoMuskies]

The idea of giving someone a bonus because someone else graduated seems silly. I bet the professors, tutors, and academic support staff don't get bonuses, and they shouldn't.

Imagine the awesomely perverse incentives if professors got bonuses for every kid who graduates in their department!

[paulxu]

Not too hard to imagine.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/85391/north-carolina-academics-scandal-still-simmering

[Muskie]

I really don't think this should be a part of any coach's contract. Two reasons. The coaches aren't the ones who go to class and do the work, and there are a lot of rules in place to restrict their involvement anyway, so why pay out a bonus for something that they're really not supposed to have direct involvement with?? They can't initiate contact with professors, for instance.

The idea of giving someone a bonus because someone else graduated seems silly. I bet the professors, tutors, and academic support staff don't get bonuses, and they shouldn't. The coach certainly shouldn't.

I do think this bonus system might encourage a coach to recruit less academically questionable players though. Does VCU have a problem graduating players? I've never bothered to look.

[GoMuskies]

Not too hard to imagine.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/85391/north-carolina-academics-scandal-still-simmering

Leave my alma mater alone!

[paulxu]

I do think this bonus system might encourage a coach to recruit less academically questionable players though. Does VCU have a problem graduating players? I've never bothered to look.

VCU's GSR is 75. XU's is 97.

[xubrew]

Imagine the awesomely perverse incentives if professors got bonuses for every kid who graduates in their department!


Not too hard to imagine.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/85391/north-carolina-academics-scandal-still-simmering

Exactly.


I do think this bonus system might encourage a coach to recruit less academically questionable players though. Does VCU have a problem graduating players? I've never bothered to look.

It won't. The bonuses for winning are bigger than the bonuses for graduating. All it does is encourage coaches to be more involved than they should in ways that are detrimental (IE, manipulating class schedules, demanding easy professors and majors, etc) so the kid can graduate.

That's really not my biggest gripe, though. It's a slap in the face to the kid to reward someone else to get a reward when they graduate. It basically gives credit to someone who had nothing to do with it. Who got a bonus when I graduated?? People graduate on their own. Coaches don't do it for them. If they do, then they shouldn't be doing it for them because there are rules against it.

[Muskie]

Exactly.



It won't. The bonuses for winning are bigger than the bonuses for graduating. All it does is encourage coaches to be more involved than they should in ways that are detrimental (IE, manipulating class schedules, demanding easy professors and majors, etc) so the kid can graduate.

That's really not my biggest gripe, though. It's a slap in the face to the kid to reward someone else to get a reward when they graduate. It basically gives credit to someone who had nothing to do with it. Who got a bonus when I graduated?? People graduate on their own. Coaches don't do it for them. If they do, then they shouldn't be doing it for them because there are rules against it.

That's true. I didn't do the math, but assumed winning the A-10 was of more value than graduating an entire class (I'll leave it for another thread what it says about society). My guess is that this is just a way to get Shaka or any other coach more money by dressing it up as an easy to earn incentive.

[xubrew]

Full disclosure, I'm almost certain that Shaka Smart gives a lot of that money back to the university and does share it with academic support. This isn't an attack on him or VCU specifically. It's just that in general coaches have that in their contracts now, and they really don't have much to with the academic side of things, nor should they. It seems crazy to me to have rules in place that restrict their involvement, but at the same time have bonuses written into their contracts for something where their involvement is supposed to be restricted. In general, that's the issue. Not specifically at VCU.

...and I still think that ultimately the players graduate on their own. They're the ones that deserve the credit. It may sound petty, but how would you feel if someone else was given congratulations for you graduating when you were the one that actually did it??

[GoMuskies]

Sr. Rose gets a lot of credit/congratulations for our players graduating, and I think she deserves that credit.

[xubrew]

Sr. Rose gets a lot of credit/congratulations for our players graduating, and I think she deserves that credit.

She's not the head coach. She'd probably also be the first one to tell you that the onus is on the players to graduate. I don't know if she gets a bonus or not, but at most places the person in that role does not, and I really don't think that they should. So, if I don't think she should get one, then I sure as hell don't think the coach should.

I don't know what her exact role is. Overseeing initial eligibility seems to be XU's shortfall.

[GoMuskies]

It may sound petty, but how would you feel if someone else was given congratulations for you graduating when you were the one that actually did it??

I was responding to this. Sr. Rose may not get a bonus, but she certainly gets a lot of kudos even though the players are the ones that actually did it.

And I think she deserves those kudos. Not all of the players could have graduated without the help she and her team provide.

[paulxu]

I don't know what her exact role is. Overseeing initial eligibility seems to be XU's shortfall.

Graduating men's basketball players who compete through to their senior year at Xavier University.

She's undefeated since she first laced 'em up. Sort of like a female Jimmy Carter.

[xubrew]

Smart will receive $5,000 for a victory over a member of the ACC — four are on VCU’s schedule this season — and $2,000 for defeating Old Dominion]

I know it's a rivalry, and that ODU is traditionally a solid program, but given the current state of their team I don't think he should get twenty bucks for beating them....much less $2k.

[Masterofreality]

The idea of giving someone a bonus because someone else graduated seems silly. I bet the professors, tutors, and academic support staff don't get bonuses, and they shouldn't. The coach certainly shouldn't.

I wonder if Shaka gets a bonus for every concussion that his "havoc" causes on the opposition's heads?

[Masterofreality]

Not too hard to imagine.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/85391/north-carolina-academics-scandal-still-simmering

That article was from June 10.

That one sure "de-escalated" quickly. Way to put the hammer down NCAA.

[paulxu]

Money talks...Bullsh$t walks.

[vee4xu]

Alright, so let me take this angle. As someone who has negotiated large transactions for 25 years, I can see Xavier looking at this as waiting to see what the price is to keep Mack and if it is actually worth doing so. Let me explain. Let's use MOR's $900K number for the sake of discussion. That total in the A-10 probably feels pretty good. Now that X has made the leap to the Big East, an easy argument can be made that $900K is looking lean versus the other schools. Yet, the fact is that Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova have all advanced to high levels, having played in a more highly rated conference than the A-10. The thinking may be that X can now afford to take a wait and see attitude about Mack. If he excels and gets offered a job elsewhere, then X makes a counteroffer equal to or better to try and keep him. If they win the battle, Mack stays and X knows it is paying Mack pretty much market. The top of the market, maybe, but market nonetheless. If Mack says screw you alma mater, you had your chance to pay me and leaves, then X knows that being in the Big East makes them a very, very attractive place to coach. Basketball is king at X and the Big East has the potential to be likewise over the next 10 years, as it grows. The pool of coaches wanting to coach at X will be excellent and the school need not worry about getting a dud as much as it would have had Mack left while X was in the A-10. It could be that Mack made a tactical error by not testing the new job waters before X landed in the Big East, forcing X to decide to pay him more at that point.

Bottom line, X holds all the cards now and Mack will have to perform against much better competition to be paid at an elite level. Planned or not, it is good business by X. And lest we all forget, NCAA DI basketball is big business. And now it is as much so at X as anywhere else.

[vee4xu]

p.s. - rule #1 in negotiation: Never negotiate against yourself.

[LA Muskie]

I'm confused about the uproar over the graduation bonuses. As long as the APR exists, the ability of a coach to keep his team eligible will be relevant. And while he may not have control over graduation, he certainly has the power to set the program's priorities and ensure that players are taking their studies seriously.

[LA Muskie]

Alright, so let me take this angle. As someone who has negotiated large transactions for 25 years, I can see Xavier looking at this as waiting to see what the price is to keep Mack and if it is actually worth doing so. Let me explain. Let's use MOR's $900K number for the sake of discussion. That total in the A-10 probably feels pretty good. Now that X has made the leap to the Big East, an easy argument can be made that $900K is looking lean versus the other schools. Yet, the fact is that Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova have all advanced to high levels, having played in a more highly rated conference than the A-10. The thinking may be that X can now afford to take a wait and see attitude about Mack. If he excels and gets offered a job elsewhere, then X makes a counteroffer equal to or better to try and keep him. If they win the battle, Mack stays and X knows it is paying Mack pretty much market. The top of the market, maybe, but market nonetheless. If Mack says screw you alma mater, you had your chance to pay me and leaves, then X knows that being in the Big East makes them a very, very attractive place to coach. Basketball is king at X and the Big East has the potential to be likewise over the next 10 years, as it grows. The pool of coaches wanting to coach at X will be excellent and the school need not worry about getting a dud as much as it would have had Mack left while X was in the A-10. It could be that Mack made a tactical error by not testing the new job waters before X landed in the Big East, forcing X to decide to pay him more at that point.

Bottom line, X holds all the cards now and Mack will have to perform against much better competition to be paid at an elite level. Planned or not, it is good business by X. And lest we all forget, NCAA DI basketball is big business. And now it is as much so at X as anywhere else.

There is a big difference between negotiating a deal for a supply of widgets and negotiating a personal services contract for an organization's most high-profile employee. You want to keep that person happy and -- perhaps more importantly -- feeling respected and appreciated.

I also disagree that the mindset you have proposed is the mindset that an AD uses to approach the hiring and retention of a high-profile basketball coach in general, much less a successful, in-demand, rising star alumnus.

[boozehound]

There is a big difference between negotiating a deal for a supply of widgets and negotiating a personal services contract for an organization's most high-profile employee. You want to keep that person happy and -- perhaps more importantly -- feeling respected and appreciated.

I also disagree that the mindset you have proposed is the mindset that an AD uses to approach the hiring and retention of a high-profile basketball coach in general, much less a successful, in-demand, rising star alumnus.

I was going to post something along these lines. Once a person gets fed up with being underpaid and goes into 'F-you' mode, it is difficult to get them out of it. Ambitious and talented people are particularly vulnerable to this. Simply waiting until another company (or school) offers them more money and then matching that is a stupid idea if you actually want to keep him as a coach.

I know that on a personal level when I have decided I am 'done' with a company nothing they have done to try to keep me has ever been successful. Even if they match my competing offer, all they are doing is sending the message to me that I have to go out and find another job for them to pay me, and I don't want to work for a company with that compensation philosophy.

I believe that you are better off trying to keep that employee happy so that they don't even look at or entertain other offers if at all possible.

[vee4xu]

I was going to post something along these lines. Once a person gets fed up with being underpaid and goes into 'F-you' mode, it is difficult to get them out of it. Ambitious and talented people are particularly vulnerable to this. Simply waiting until another company (or school) offers them more money and then matching that is a stupid idea if you actually want to keep him as a coach.

I know that on a personal level when I have decided I am 'done' with a company nothing they have done to try to keep me has ever been successful. Even if they match my competing offer, all they are doing is sending the message to me that I have to go out and find another job for them to pay me, and I don't want to work for a company with that compensation philosophy.

I believe that you are better off trying to keep that employee happy so that they don't even look at or entertain other offers if at all possible.

Sure, assuming the new AD feels the same way. He's calling the shots now and it's up to Coach Mack to prove he's worth the price of being a next level coach. Being a good steward to Xavier's bank account includes not paying someone simply because you want someone happy or if he/she is an alum. Don't get me wrong. I love Coach Mack. But when it comes to making the right decision emotional elements must be stripped away from the process. Otherwise that can lead to making a potentially poor decision. Pay forward for anticipated results. With the A-10 that could be extrapolated for Coach Mack in some fashion. It isn't possible to do so in the BE. So back to my point. Coach Mack should have made his move after winning 40 straight home conference games and before Bobo left for GT. Now the stakes have changed.

[XUFan09]

There are no emotional elements involved when concluding that Mack deserves a serious pay raise, based off his performance so far and the amount of money Xavier will now have at its disposal. And yes, you can extrapolate future results from these past seasons as a member of the A10. Let's not act like Xavier is joining the NBA's Eastern Conference. Let's also keep in mind that only half the season is played against conference foes, and Mack has proven his teams' worth against some tough non-conference opponents.

Pay him more, not simply to keep him happy because it feels good. Pay him more because he is a financial asset worth keeping happy.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[boozehound]

Sure, assuming the new AD feels the same way. He's calling the shots now and it's up to Coach Mack to prove he's worth the price of being a next level coach. Being a good steward to Xavier's bank account includes not paying someone simply because you want someone happy or if he/she is an alum. Don't get me wrong. I love Coach Mack. But when it comes to making the right decision emotional elements must be stripped away from the process. Otherwise that can lead to making a potentially poor decision. Pay forward for anticipated results. With the A-10 that could be extrapolated for Coach Mack in some fashion. It isn't possible to do so in the BE. So back to my point. Coach Mack should have made his move after winning 40 straight home conference games and before Bobo left for GT. Now the stakes have changed.

I don't really think that the stakes have changed that much. He is still a valuable coach and other Universities would probably over him more than we are paying him. Tennessee and North Carolina were both prepared to make him a very wealthy man a few years ago. It's not like nobody outside of Xavier has expressed interest in Mack as a coach.

If we think Chris Mack is on par with the rest of the BE coaches we should be proactive about compensating him as such. If we don't, then why is he our coach?

People pay for anticipated performance all the time. Every time a company hires a new employee or promotes an existing employee they are paying for anticipated performance. If my company promotes me into a new role they are paying me based on anticipated future performance. They are using past performance as a guide when the offer me the job, but they are paying me based on the expectation of performance in my future role. They don't know what I am going to do in the new role, they are going to pay me what the position is worth and then they will fire me if I don't do a good job. That's how I think Xavier should pay their coaches. Pay at a rate comparable with the rest of the conference, then fire them if they don't perform.

[vee4xu]

There are no emotional elements involved when concluding that Mack deserves a serious pay raise, based off his performance so far and the amount of money Xavier will now have at its disposal. And yes, you can extrapolate future results from these past seasons as a member of the A10. Let's not act like Xavier is joining the NBA's Eastern Conference. Let's also keep in mind that only half the season is played against conference foes, and Mack has proven his teams' worth against some tough non-conference opponents.

Pay him more, not simply to keep him happy because it feels good. Pay him more because he is a financial asset worth keeping happy.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

I don't agree, but hey that's fine. We all have our opinions based on our own experiences. Mine lead me to my conclusions and those who disagree with it are doing likewise.

[vee4xu]

I don't really think that the stakes have changed that much. He is still a valuable coach and other Universities would probably over him more than we are paying him. Tennessee and North Carolina were both prepared to make him a very wealthy man a few years ago. It's not like nobody outside of Xavier has expressed interest in Mack as a coach.

If we think Chris Mack is on par with the rest of the BE coaches we should be proactive about compensating him as such. If we don't, then why is he our coach?

People pay for anticipated performance all the time. Every time a company hires a new employee or promotes an existing employee they are paying for anticipated performance. If my company promotes me into a new role they are paying me based on anticipated future performance. They are using past performance as a guide when the offer me the job, but they are paying me based on the expectation of performance in my future role. They don't know what I am going to do in the new role, they are going to pay me what the position is worth and then they will fire me if I don't do a good job. That's how I think Xavier should pay their coaches. Pay at a rate comparable with the rest of the conference, then fire them if they don't perform.

Cool. I appreciate the respectful discourse on the topic. We don't always get that around here.

[LadyMuskie]

I don't really think that the stakes have changed that much. He is still a valuable coach and other Universities would probably over him more than we are paying him. Tennessee and North Carolina were both prepared to make him a very wealthy man a few years ago. It's not like nobody outside of Xavier has expressed interest in Mack as a coach.

If we think Chris Mack is on par with the rest of the BE coaches we should be proactive about compensating him as such. If we don't, then why is he our coach?

People pay for anticipated performance all the time. Every time a company hires a new employee or promotes an existing employee they are paying for anticipated performance. If my company promotes me into a new role they are paying me based on anticipated future performance. They are using past performance as a guide when the offer me the job, but they are paying me based on the expectation of performance in my future role. They don't know what I am going to do in the new role, they are going to pay me what the position is worth and then they will fire me if I don't do a good job. That's how I think Xavier should pay their coaches. Pay at a rate comparable with the rest of the conference, then fire them if they don't perform.

I think this is pretty spot-on.

[boozehound]

Cool. I appreciate the respectful discourse on the topic. We don't always get that around here.

Likewise, Vee.

[Masterofreality]

Do we really think that Mack's compensation doesn't exceed a million dollars per year? He may or may not need to be given a raise considering our new conference, but I can't believe that he doesn't clear 7 figures in compensation. He wouldn't be able to afford that house he's in if he doesn't make a whole truckload of money.


I can assure you that CMack's total current compensation does not exceed $900k. If he makes the NCAA Tournament, depending on the total net payout received by the University, he can get a bonus. There were outside "special considerations" to help with the house, but he didn't get it for free.

He is woefully underpaid as compared to other coaches with similar resumes. His assistants need to be paid more too.

In answer to the question about the USA Today compensation figures, I merely want to once again point out what was posted last October.

Pay the Man.