Frontline: League of Denial

[LadyMuskie]

Is anyone watching?

To say it is unflattering to the NFL is an understatement.

[Cheesehead]

I saw a preview and I DVR'ed it and plan to watch it soon. The analogy to big tobacco and cancer thing looks to be more and more accurate. I really like football but as I have stated in previous posts, my 16 year old son has had 3 concussions; 2 were in the same football season. Needless to say, his football days ended after the 3rd concussion which actually happened in an open gym basketball game. He only plays basketball these days and will be on Varsity this year. I do miss watching him play football but I know we made the right call.

[LadyMuskie]

I would agree. And I think the problem is that it will be hard to get a large percentage of the public to care because there are no cases of second-hand CTE. I guess if more high school kids and younger die it might change things. Maybe.

[xavierj]

Yeah football is a rough sport but so is basketball, baseball, hockey and soccer. Did you know the mortality rate for retired baseball players is higher than retired football players? Dd you know the suicide rate for retired baseball players is higher than retired NFL players? When is the last time you saw a college or pro football player die on the field? There have been over 80 deaths during soccer matches in the last 50 years. Guys get concussions in all sports, yet people only focus on football. Why?

[LadyMuskie]

Yeah football is a rough sport but so is basketball, baseball, hockey and soccer. Did you know the mortality rate for retired baseball players is higher than retired football players? Dd you know the suicide rate for retired baseball players is higher than retired NFL players? When is the last time you saw a college or pro football player die on the field? There have been over 80 deaths during soccer matches in the last 50 years. Guys get concussions in all sports, yet people only focus on football. Why?

Did you watch the doc tonight?

For starters, no one on it, including several former players and Hall of Famers said football was more or less dangerous than any other sport. Second, I looked up your soccer facts and found that the large majority of the deaths you mentioned were caused by heart attacks or a heart related issue. These deaths caused FIFA to implement mandatory heart testin. The NFL on the other hand continues to deny that football causes permanent brain damage. Nonetheless some soccer players did die after "head on collisions" with other players or the ball. This, experts posit, is likely because soccer players do not wear padding and or helmets like football players do. If they did, the result of a head on collision in soccer would likely be a concussion as we see in the NFL. That said, more soccer players died of the heart issues and lightening strikes than head injuries.

As to the mortality rate of retired professional athletes, I can't find the data to support or refute your claim. Can you?

To me, the most jarring part of the documentary wasn't that getting hit by 275 pound men is dangerous to your health. Hearing that an 18 year old high school senior died after sustaining his 4th concussion was alarming, and learning that his brain at just 18 years of age was showing the same damage as Junior Seau's brain among others. Was disturbing. Learning that a 21 year old who killed himself showed the same ain abnormalities wasn't easy to swallow. Add to that the fact that the NFL has worked actively to discredit the doctors studying CTE and refuses to acknowledge a causation, while in some instances knowingly misleading the players is frightening.

As Hall of Fame LB said - there's a reason the NFL settled instead of going to court. He closed the doc by saying that settlement gives you 765 million reasons to not play football.

[Strange Brew]

Did you watch the doc tonight?

For starters, no one on it, including several former players and Hall of Famers said football was more or less dangerous than any other sport. Second, I looked up your soccer facts and found that the large majority of the deaths you mentioned were caused by heart attacks or a heart related issue. These deaths caused FIFA to implement mandatory heart testin. The NFL on the other hand continues to deny that football causes permanent brain damage. Nonetheless some soccer players did die after "head on collisions" with other players or the ball. This, experts posit, is likely because soccer players do not wear padding and or helmets like football players do. If they did, the result of a head on collision in soccer would likely be a concussion as we see in the NFL. That said, more soccer players died of the heart issues and lightening strikes than head injuries.

As to the mortality rate of retired professional athletes, I can't find the data to support or refute your claim. Can you?

To me, the most jarring part of the documentary wasn't that getting hit by 275 pound men is dangerous to your health. Hearing that an 18 year old high school senior died after sustaining his 4th concussion was alarming, and learning that his brain at just 18 years of age was showing the same damage as Junior Seau's brain among others. Was disturbing. Learning that a 21 year old who killed himself showed the same ain abnormalities wasn't easy to swallow. Add to that the fact that the NFL has worked actively to discredit the doctors studying CTE and refuses to acknowledge a causation, while in some instances knowingly misleading the players is frightening.

As Hall of Fame LB said - there's a reason the NFL settled instead of going to court. He closed the doc by saying that settlement gives you 765 million reasons to not play football.

All I'll say is this. Football is a brutal game played by men who understand the risks and the rewards. Are you saying men can't do what they want with their bodies? It's their body, until you can play nose tackle at the middle school level, your opinion Lady, matters not.

[Juice]

All I'll say is this. Football is a brutal game played by men who understand the risks and the rewards. Are you saying men can't do what they want with their bodies? It's their body, until you can play nose tackle at the middle school level, your opinion Lady, matters not.

I didn't watch it but before the last few years the NFL wasn't exactly forthcoming about the effects of concussions nor did they really care. Guys just went back into games in fear they may lose their jobs. The NFL (and by that I mean the coaches, front offices, doctors, etc.) put pressure on the players to keep playing. And the NFL hierarchy (commissioner) did nothing to change this culture as they were more educated than the players.

[XUFan09]

All I'll say is this. Football is a brutal game played by men who understand the risks and the rewards. Are you saying men can't do what they want with their bodies? It's their body, until you can play nose tackle at the middle school level, your opinion Lady, matters not.

The documentary was done in the first place to better illuminate the risks, which actually weren't fully understood before, even by NFL athletes (and especially by middle schoolers and their parents, while we're at it).

[xavierj]

My issue is that people claim people commit suicide because they played football and got concussions. People kill themselves because they are depressed and at times have some mental illness. I am willing to bet the majority of people who have committed suicide did not play football and did not have concussion problems.

[GuyFawkes38]

Yeah football is a rough sport but so is basketball, baseball, hockey and soccer. Did you know the mortality rate for retired baseball players is higher than retired football players? Dd you know the suicide rate for retired baseball players is higher than retired NFL players? When is the last time you saw a college or pro football player die on the field? There have been over 80 deaths during soccer matches in the last 50 years. Guys get concussions in all sports, yet people only focus on football. Why?

I don't think basketball deserves to be on that list. By far it's the safest major sport. It's bad for the knees, but relatively safe for the head.

I'm not an expert, of course. But I don't think you can just casually claim that football is like any other sport. Like boxing, football separates itself from soccer, baseball, softball (but perhaps not hockey), because it exposes players to a high frequency of blows to the head. The research suggests that it's not the intensity but frequency which causes issues.

[Kahns Krazy]

Denial in the face of evidence is damning action if you are a cigarette maker, a Pinto maker or the head of a profitbale sports league. It really sounds like the league knew or should have known more and been more forthcoming with it. The solution is not to shut the game down, but to continue the research and make the game as safe as possible while maintaining the excitement level. Every major sport deals with it, some more than others. Sports like boxing and MMA continue to exist. Auto racing has dealt with death and safety in a very open way since Dale Earnhart's death.

I just hope this doesn't turn into some huge money grab by the NFLPA's lawyers. There isn't a reasonable person on earth that should believe that there is no negative effect to getting hit in the head repeatedly. Everyone knew what they were getting into.

[RealDeal]

Huge correlation between TBI and suicide and depression, look at the athletes and soldiers. Or just stick your head in the ground and ignore it.

[boozehound]

All I'll say is this. Football is a brutal game played by men who understand the risks and the rewards. Are you saying men can't do what they want with their bodies? It's their body, until you can play nose tackle at the middle school level, your opinion Lady, matters not.

Except for the part where she determines whether or not to let her middle school'er play football at all (assuming she has children either now or at some point in the future). I would say the opinions of concerned parents matters quite a bit for the overall proliferation of the sport, regardless of whether or not they can actually play the sport. Kids who start playing football are not exactly 'men who understand the the risks and rewards'.

My company is a big sponsor of an NFL team (not the Bengals) and we have NFL players at company functions with some regularity. A few years ago I was listening to a conversation in which several NFL players were talking about how they would not let their kids play football at all until they were 18. They were 'men who were aware of the risks', but they had decided that they would not allow their children to be subjected to those risks. They had also all determined that they would donate their brains to science. It was a very sobering conversation to be privvy to.

The bottom line (in my opinion) is that increased awareness of brain injury caused by football will absolutely hurt the sport. I love football so I'm hoping they can find a way to mitigate/eliminate those risks.

[RealDeal]

All I'll say is this. Football is a brutal game played by men who understand the risks and the rewards. Are you saying men can't do what they want with their bodies? It's their body, until you can play nose tackle at the middle school level, your opinion Lady, matters not.

Fans buy tickets, fans fund the sport. Fan's opinions matter. To say otherwise is silly.

[XUFan09]

My issue is that people claim people commit suicide because they played football and got concussions. People kill themselves because they are depressed and at times have some mental illness. I am willing to bet the majority of people who have committed suicide did not play football and did not have concussion problems.

I think you're missing the point. Repeated concussions correlate strongly with depression and mental illness, which leads to a higher rate of suicide. And is your last sentence even an argument? Of course most suicides aren't connected with football or concussion problems. The issue is over that higher RATE of suicide, as compared to the general populace.

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[bleedXblue]

The issue is whether or not every single athlete who plays sports understands the risks of concussions? Of course football players by the very nature of the sport are most likely to happen.

If the NFL has been withholding information and/or not communicating/warning/informing .....then there will be lots of $$$$ to pay.

If after you have been informed by a school, university, NFL etc and then elect to voluntarily put yourself at risk, then you and you alone are to blame.

[SlimKibbles]

I wish I would have watched this. I do like watching football on weekends this time of year but would not be heartbroken if the sport disappeared. I don't think it's worth the risk. Play soccer, baseball, or hoops instead.

[bleedXblue]

I wish I would have watched this. I do like watching football on weekends this time of year but would not be heartbroken if the sport disappeared. I don't think it's worth the risk. Play soccer, baseball, or hoops instead.

Womens soccer has a high rate of concussions as well......I dont know why, but it does.

[GoMuskies]

If we lose football, basketball season has to expand. As is, fall would just completely suck.

[Kahns Krazy]

The issue is whether or not every single athlete who plays sports understands the risks of concussions? Of course football players by the very nature of the sport are most likely to happen.

If the NFL has been withholding information and/or not communicating/warning/informing .....then there will be lots of $$$$ to pay.

If after you have been informed by a school, university, NFL etc and then elect to voluntarily put yourself at risk, then you and you alone are to blame.

I hate this mentality. The risk of injury in sports is self evident. Nobody needs to be warned that you might get hit in the head. Nobody needs to be told that concussions are bad. The increase studies of brain injuries are making more and more data available, but seriously, did anyone previously think that the human brain had unlimited rebound potential?

I damn near crushed myself under my garage door last weekend trying to get it back on the tracks while it was in the raised position. It was an idiotic thing to do on my part. Should I sue the garage door maker because they didn't warn me that standing under a garage door while attempting to repair it was a stupid idea? Or is it my duty as a normal person to be aware that gravity is always there.

People need to take some responsibility.

[nuts4xu]

I played offensive and defensive line for 8 years, and I know I had at least a few concussions in that time.

And look how great I turned out! Woo Hoo!

[GoMuskies]

I played offensive and defensive line for 8 years, and I know I had at least a few concussions in that time.

And look how great I turned out! Woo Hoo!

This post has eliminated the possibility of my two boys ever playing football.

[xavierj]

I think you're missing the point. Repeated concussions correlate strongly with depression and mental illness, which leads to a higher rate of suicide. And is your last sentence even an argument? Of course most suicides aren't connected with football or concussion problems. The issue is over that higher RATE of suicide, as compared to the general populace.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

That is fine but can we stop blaming the NFL? There have been 23 former NFL players in their history that have committed suicide. There have been over 60 former baseball players and over 30 former pro soccer players do the same thing. By comparison over 150 former actors and actresses have killed themselves. But yeah, it happens more in football because of concussions. Yeah whatever. Everyone gets depressed at times, some people find ways to deal with it, others do not. It's not a football problem, it's a life problem.

[XUFan09]

By saying that "everyone" gets depressed from "time to time," you revealed that you clearly don't know what depression really is. I blame the NFL for downplaying information about the seriousness of concussions, but now that the information is being put out there about the long-term ramifications of repeated concussions, players should be informed enough to make their own decisions.

You keep missing the point if you think the number of suicides in other sports or in Hollywood can be presented as a counter-point. There are A LOT of factors that can lead to suicide, and depression/mental illness resulting from repeated concussions is just one potential factor. It's a serious one, though.

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[RealDeal]

I hate it when the NFL gets blamed every time an actor commits suicide.

[nuts4xu]

Further evidence of the wussification of America.

We just called these "concussions" - "getting your bell rung" or a "slobber knocker" back in my day.

Bunch of pussies!

[blobfan]

Fans buy tickets, fans fund the sport. Fan's opinions matter. To say otherwise is silly.
Not to mention if we banned opinions from everyone that isn't directly affected by an issue we'd have much fewer things to talk about.

That is fine but can we stop blaming the NFL? There have been 23 former NFL players in their history that have committed suicide. There have been over 60 former baseball players and over 30 former pro soccer players do the same thing. By comparison over 150 former actors and actresses have killed themselves. But yeah, it happens more in football because of concussions. Yeah whatever. Everyone gets depressed at times, some people find ways to deal with it, others do not. It's not a football problem, it's a life problem.
You need to focus on population rates, not sheer numbers. 23 former NFL players since what date out of how many who actively played during that time? Need to do the same with your other stats before any conclusions can be drawn. Otherwise we need to start talking about the rate of menstrual problems among professional ball players cause there's like millions of people dealing with PMS every day!!!

[LA Muskie]

Womens soccer has a high rate of concussions as well......I dont know why, but it does.
At the youth levels, girls are not taught how to properly head the ball. At least not the same extent as boys. Head the ball with the forehead in an active motion (i.e., move your forehead into the ball) = generally OK. Allow the ball to strike your head passively (particularly on the top) = concussion risk.

[LA Muskie]

That is fine but can we stop blaming the NFL? There have been 23 former NFL players in their history that have committed suicide. There have been over 60 former baseball players and over 30 former pro soccer players do the same thing. By comparison over 150 former actors and actresses have killed themselves. But yeah, it happens more in football because of concussions. Yeah whatever. Everyone gets depressed at times, some people find ways to deal with it, others do not. It's not a football problem, it's a life problem.
With all due respect: (i) it's about more than suicide (which can have a host of root causes); and (ii) 23 former NFL players is probably significantly more, proportionately speaking, than 60 former pro baseball and 40 pro soccer players.

[xavierj]

[QUOTE=LA Muskie;407681]With all due respect: (i) it's about more than suicide (which can have a host of root causes); and (ii) 23 former NFL players is probably significantly more, proportionately speaking, than 60 former pro baseball and 40 pro soccer players.[

Maybe. My point is that football takes a beating because it is the most popular and successful sport in the US. People can get hurt in any sport but since most people could give a rat's ass about baseball and soccer they like to hammer football. This whole thing is mainly about money anyway, and the NFL has more than all of the other sports.

I also think the NFL can do a lot more for the former players but they are over playing the cuncussion deal. Players have a lot of debilitating injuries from football that cause them problems as well. Tell me how depressed you might get if you have a hard time walking due to an injury.

[Kahns Krazy]

Depression as a mental disorder is much different than being sad or angry, J. People do not enter a state of suicidal depression because it hurts to walk. Your opinion that "they are over playing" the effects of a concussion is rather baseless, and probably reflects your wishes more than any actual data.

[ammtd34]

At the youth levels, girls are not taught how to properly head the ball. At least not the same extent as boys. Head the ball with the forehead in an active motion (i.e., move your forehead into the ball) = generally OK. Allow the ball to strike your head passively (particularly on the top) = concussion risk.

Correct.

[LadyMuskie]

All I'll say is this. Football is a brutal game played by men who understand the risks and the rewards. Are you saying men can't do what they want with their bodies? It's their body, until you can play nose tackle at the middle school level, your opinion Lady, matters not.

I completely agree with you that grown men should be allowed to make their own decisions regarding their bodies (as should women when it comes to things like pregnancy, but I think you already know I feel that way and that's why you posted what you did!). Anyway, if, after watching Frontline last night every NFL player goes out Sunday and plays like normal, that is their choice. Many of them, I am sure, believe that either it won't be like that for them or that making millions now is worth being dead by 50 or, worse, a vegetable by 50. However, for the NFL to have withheld information from the players who were concerned about concussions and for the NFL to have actively mislead the players (as they did in a brochure about Concussions and You!), that's an issue for me. It's like telling someone that setting yourself on fire doesn't really result in third degrees burns on your body, and even if you do get burned, don't worry about it. You'll be fine in no time!

As my husband and I discussed last night while we watched the documentary, we wouldn't let our son play if we had one, and my husband played football in grade school and high school. The brain of a child is still in development and since it flows more easily within the skull, even a light tackle would be more damaging to that child's brain than not. It's not a risk that I would want my son to take, and it is a risk that is easily avoidable because football is not a necessity in life.

That said, I love football. I've been a football fan all my life. But, the game can be barbaric. I've never liked the sound two helmets make when crashing into each other. It turns my stomach. Does this research mean the game should end? I really don't know. As I stated, grown men and women should be allowed to make their own choices in life, but what about the little kids and high school kids who idolize the pros for those big hits? Do we owe it to them to share the knowledge we've gained about long term brain issues because of concussions? Do we have a moral obligation to let parents and kids know that it isn't just the big hits that are a problem, but the 10 to 12 small hits that are sustained each game? Maybe what's needed is acceptance by the NFL that CTE is a reality and that the NFL should be putting some of those billions of dollars it makes each year into researching how to lessen the effects of tackling on the human brain. Rule changes, equipment changes, etc. are all steps in the right direction, and educating linemen and backs on how tackling effects them and their teammates and opponents would probably go a long way too. It would particularly help kids who have dreams of wearing a Redskin, Cowboy or Giants jersey because the research would trickle down and make changes that would impact lives immediately.

As one of the doctors said last night - the NFL didn't want this information to get out because they were afraid that mothers would stop letting their sons play football, and if just 10% of mothers said no more football, the NFL would collapse. To me, that's not a valid reason to keep life altering information from people. Like the cigarette companies, the mission statement of a company should never be to do business at any cost, especially the cost of human life (and I don't just mean quantity but also quality). Instead, why doesn't the NFL go on a PR crusade and tell people how they're going to be at the forefront of CTE research to save the men who rake in the billions?

[xavierj]

Depression as a mental disorder is much different than being sad or angry, J. People do not enter a state of suicidal depression because it hurts to walk. Your opinion that "they are over playing" the effects of a concussion is rather baseless, and probably reflects your wishes more than any actual data.

So says you. Ask Reggie williams, guy is fighting to keep his legs. If I couldnt walk I would be pretty depressed. As for concussions, just curious why they single out the NFL and not soccer and the NHL or skiing, horse back riding, nascar, rugby and other tough sports? I think parents need to tell their kids not to leave the house because a tree could fall on them. Look people can get hurt or even killed playing any sport and that is my point.

Also, I doubt any NFL or college players are going to quit because of this anytime soon. Most feel the reward is greater than the risk.

[RealDeal]

I think parents need to tell their kids not to leave the house because a tree could fall on them.

I agree, I don't let my kids leave the house. Both of my parents were killed by falling trees.

[LA Muskie]

So says you. Ask Reggie williams, guy is fighting to keep his legs. If I couldnt walk I would be pretty depressed. As for concussions, just curious why they single out the NFL and not soccer and the NHL or skiing, horse back riding, nascar, rugby and other tough sports? I think parents need to tell their kids not to leave the house because a tree could fall on them. Look people can get hurt or even killed playing any sport and that is my point.

Also, I doubt any NFL or college players are going to quit because of this anytime soon. Most feel the reward is greater than the risk.
There's a big difference between being sad and being (clinically) depressed. Sad is an emotion tied to events. It is rational -- for example, the loss of a family member or the inability to do something you loved to do. Depression is (among other things) the inability to enjoy even joyful events. You may want to review this video (<iframe src="http://embed.ted.com/talks/kevin_breel_confessions_of_a_depressed_comic.html" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>)

[sirthought]

This Frontline episode is just the beginning. Football as we know it isn't around in 15-20 years. All the injuries and danger, coupled with massive public investments for a greedy system that is currently not paying taxes...the NFL is scrambling to figure out how to not kill the golden goose. But it's not just the NFL, high schools programs are already starting to dwindle and the flow of talent to college and pro teams will decline. Parents are becoming educated and the risks just are not worth it. Communities and universities are seeing that the investment isn't worth it. Not when these athletes are going to be our future.

Another force will effect college programs, as pay cable and satellite TV is slowly dying. Young adults aren't subscribing and the ESPNs of the world will find it harder and harder to pay the huge sums of money college conferences are demanding for programming. It won't go away completely, but the budgets will be smaller and smaller and the shine of big-time football programs will weaken. (And this may effect basketball too.)

But on the subject of concussions, more and more parents are starting to take their kids out of soccer, as evidence is mounting that while the concussion impacts may not always be as severe as we see in football, the rate of brain damage to every player out there is even higher than in football. When you are regularly hitting a ball with your head those multiple impacts effect your cognition. Studies have tested players after games and those who headed balls during games couldn't perform even close to those who had not headed balls.

[xavierj]

If that is the case Sunday afternoons will be boring as hell. As for the drop in players I don't see it. The youth programs still have a ton of kids and the high schools still have sidelines full. What needs to happen is education.teach kids to tackle correctly and stop using your head. When helmets were not around no one hit with their heads.

[LA Muskie]

This Frontline episode is just the beginning. Football as we know it isn't around in 15-20 years. All the injuries and danger, coupled with massive public investments for a greedy system that is currently not paying taxes...the NFL is scrambling to figure out how to not kill the golden goose. But it's not just the NFL, high schools programs are already starting to dwindle and the flow of talent to college and pro teams will decline. Parents are becoming educated and the risks just are not worth it. Communities and universities are seeing that the investment isn't worth it. Not when these athletes are going to be our future.

Another force will effect college programs, as pay cable and satellite TV is slowly dying. Young adults aren't subscribing and the ESPNs of the world will find it harder and harder to pay the huge sums of money college conferences are demanding for programming. It won't go away completely, but the budgets will be smaller and smaller and the shine of big-time football programs will weaken. (And this may effect basketball too.)

But on the subject of concussions, more and more parents are starting to take their kids out of soccer, as evidence is mounting that while the concussion impacts may not always be as severe as we see in football, the rate of brain damage to every player out there is even higher than in football. When you are regularly hitting a ball with your head those multiple impacts effect your cognition. Studies have tested players after games and those who headed balls during games couldn't perform even close to those who had not headed balls.
My brother is a collegiate mens's soccer head coach. He has lost at least 2 kids to concussions every year for about 4 years now. I was just talking to my mother about it last night -- I played competitively for about 14 years (and recreationally for another 18). My brother has played competitively (including at the professional level) for about 30 of his 37 years. It is scary how many concussions we likely had, and regardless of concussions how much damage we likely caused. My mother pulled me off the varsity hockey team at 15 because I suffered 3 concussions in the span of a week. Yet hockey may well have been the safer sport for my noggin.

[LA Muskie]

If that is the case Sunday afternoons will be boring as hell. As for the drop in players I don't see it. The youth programs still have a ton of kids and the high schools still have sidelines full. What needs to happen is education.teach kids to tackle correctly and stop using your head. When helmets were not around no one hit with their heads.
I don't know that it will disappear, but the number of youth and HS programs will likely decrease. 20 years from now I wouldn't be surprised to see flag-only until the varsity high school level.

[sirthought]

When helmets were not around players had health issues and died for kinds of unexplained reasons. It was just the state of medicine at that time. They still had their bell rung too often, thus the development of the helmet.

If you even suffer from one or two concussions you are creating potential problems down the road. I know all sports have risks and that why we enjoy them, but when every single play involves expected violence that causes such impact, that's when you have to ask why is this what we want?

[xavierj]

When helmets were not around players had health issues and died for kinds of unexplained reasons. It was just the state of medicine at that time. They still had their bell rung too often, thus the development of the helmet.

If you even suffer from one or two concussions you are creating potential problems down the road. I know all sports have risks and that why we enjoy them, but when every single play involves expected violence that causes such impact, that's when you have to ask why is this what we want?

Well because people should be able to play football if they want to. It can be fun and lucrative and if the right techniques are used, injuries can be avoided. Look no one has died in the nfl on the playing football and many more retired players live the good life than the bad. Things can be worse. Lighten up. I don't see any players turning down the chance to make a great living anytime soon.

[sirthought]

Hey, I played football in high school. I enjoy watching the game. But my attitude about it is changing.

Lighten up, indeed. They don't talk about the players who choose to leave, as that doesn't hype the current game, naturally. :
- At least 50 high school or younger football players in more than 20 states since 1997 have been killed or have sustained serious head injuries on the field, according to research by The New York Times. Link (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2007/09/16/sports/20070916_CONCUSSION_GRAPHIC.html?ref=headinjuries&_r=0)

- Football players as young as 7 sustain hits comparable in magnitude to those absorbed by high school and adult players, and most of the hits are sustained in practices, not games. More than 25,000 football players from 8 to 19 years old are taken to emergency rooms seeking treatment for concussions every year, but most of the research on head injuries in football has focused on professional and college players. Link (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/25/sports/hits-to-the-head-dont-differ-with-age-research-indicates.html?ref=headinjuries)

- Montclair High School and the Montclair Board of Education have agreed to pay $2.8 million to the family of a football player who died after suffering a concussion. link (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/09/09/lawyer-2-8-million-settlement-reached-in-n-j-high-school-football-players-death/)

[xubrew]

Womens soccer has a high rate of concussions as well......I dont know why, but it does.

Synchronized swimming actually has the highest rate of concussions, but women's soccer is high as well.

Overall, though, football takes the biggest toll. The concussion rate is high, and up until recently football players were much more likely to return to the game and/or practice before they should. That is one of the things that needs to change. Football also takes a huge toll on peoples' knees, joints and fingers. Moreso than any other sport.

I don't think the game should be shut down. I really don't necessarily think it needs to be changed (although it wouldn't bother me at all if it were). For the most part, I think people should be able to do things that aren't healthy if they want to so long as they aren't hurting anyone else and that they're making an informed decision. That's the thing, though. I don't think most players realize the extent of the risks, and how long term they can be. There is almost nothing done to educate people on it. The documentary on Nightline is actually extremely abridged, but it is still more than what most players have ever seen about it or ever know about it.

Being a jockey is probably more dangerous, and has worse long term health effects than playing football does. But, those guys know what they're getting into. Race car drivers know what they're getting into. So do professional wrestlers (that's actually a lot worse than football from what I understand). So do pilots at an air show. I don't think football players have a full consciousness of how dangerous it can be for them long term. If they're made aware of that and they still want to play, then great. But, they do need to be educated, and that is something that really is not occurring, at least not nearly to the level that it needs to be.

[Strange Brew]

The documentary was done in the first place to better illuminate the risks, which actually weren't fully understood before, even by NFL athletes (and especially by middle schoolers and their parents, while we're at it).

Jeez really? As someone who sustained multiple concussions in high school in the 90's and was told I was not allowed to play football in college due to said injuries (among others), I can tell you the the risks were well known by players and Docs going back 20 years at a minimum.

[Snipe]

I love football, but I would never let my kids play. Not a chance in hell of that.

For the law of unintended consequences file, think of how the helmet has hurt the game. When people didn't have helmets, nobody tackled with their head. Once the helmet was invented and introduced, the head became the spear point or the leading edge of the missile. All the helmet did was add mass so that the effect would be worse on the brain. The helmet may protect your nose from being broken or your skin from being cut, but it doesn't protect your head from a concussion, it actually makes it worse by adding mass.

Same thing with boxing gloves. Hitting someone in the head without boxing gloves is a good way to break bones in your hand. Boxers avoided doing that. Once you put on the gloves you can batter someone's head all day long, and while the blocks protect the outside, they only add more mass to the punch to human brain.

It is counterintuitive, but football would be a safer sport if they got rid of the helmets.

Should people be allowed to play football even as we discover and document the high risks associated with it? I think so. I think the best we can do is just get the information out there and let people decide for themselves. I think riding motorcycles is stupid and dangerous too, and my kids aren't allowed to do that either.

[xubrew]

I agree with Snipe about the helmet. Helmets protect the skull. They don't protect the brain, and it actually increases the likelihood of concussions.