Where will xavier finish in the Big East

[Blue Blobs Bro]

What are you thinking?

[LA Muskie]

I voted 4th (looks like I'm not the only one). I did that for a few reasons, the biggest of which is that there will be some degree of acclimation. I agree with others (PMI, DC maybe?) that the change will not be cataclysmic. I've said before that it will be incremental -- the middle will be stronger, and it will be even tougher to win on the road. But that incremental change shouldn't be underestimated. I don't see anyone running the table in this league. Teams that hold their own court and win a few on the road will lead the way. I think we're capable of that, but I could see a few stumbles at home and a difficulty on the road as we get used to new(ish) teams and venues. Plus, this year we will be depending on a slew of unproven players (basically all but one).

[waggy]

We could shock.

[GoMuskies]

I voted fourth mostly because I cannot see us climbing over Georgetown, Marquette or Creighton this year, but I think we are the best of the rest. If we were to somehow sneak into third, I'd guess it would be at the expense of Marquette. If we finish fifth, I'd give the nod to St. John's as most likely to skip us into fourth.

[LA Muskie]

We could shock.
I very much agree with this. We could.

[Masterofreality]

I said 5th....

....So we could sneak up on someone.

[DC Muskie]

I picked third. I think Creighton is going to have trouble adjusting. Plus I'm interested to see how they handle the extensive travel demands. It took awhile for SLU in the A10.

I don't think our adjustment will be all that big. We have some interesting new pieces to fit in. Nova does too, and many of them were targets of ours. Should be fun to see how everything shakes out.

[LA Muskie]

I picked third. I think Creighton is going to have trouble adjusting. Plus I'm interested to see how they handle the extensive travel demands. It took awhile for SLU in the A10.

I don't think our adjustment will be all that big. We have some interesting new pieces to fit in. Nova does too, and many of them were targets of ours. Should be fun to see how everything shakes out.
I think we can compete from the top down. None of our opponents scare me, although I think GTown and Creighton will be tough individual contests. I don't think it will be a HUGE adjustment for us, but I do think we have an adjustment and will see some growing pains that the "old" Big East teams won't.

[gladdenguy]

4th.
Same old story for me.
Georgetown, Marquette, and Creighton.
Of course anywhere below Villanova and St. Johns wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Milhouse]

I like the popular pick of 4th. Just a very young team with some questions at different positions. If the young guys are everything we thought and more there is absolutely no way we won't compete for first.

[PMI]

I picked first because I'm a Xavier homer and none of you others had the balls to do it! I do think it's a conference that's up for grabs this year though. Georgetown, Marquette and Creighton all have some question marks. I do think all three of them are sure-fire tournament teams (although Georgetown might as well just stay home instead of doing their embarrassing annual shitting of the britches in the first round.) But I don't see much reason to waste any time establishing ourselves as the Flagship, the Glove, the big swinging dicks of the Big East. All of our previous conferences felt the wrath, these bunch of doomed programs are next in line.

[bleedXblue]

We have lots of questions marks. I like the folowing year if Semaj returns. Any finish higher than 5th I will be happy with.

[muskiefan82]

First. We are XU. Aim high.

[Fireball]

My main goal for the team this year is a return to the tournament. Everything else is gravy, especially after last year. No doubt in my mind that they have the talent to do some damage, and I would not out a great season out of the frame of possibility, but the team feels like a 4th place finish in the Big East, which would be a great way to put last year behind them.

[hoyahooligan]

I think this is going to be the most interesting basketball season in a number of years. Major Conference fans love to diminish mid major schools and state that sure in a one off game in the NCAA tournament or OOC a mid major team can compete and win, but if they were in a major conference the daily grind would wear them down and they would not be able to compete. And now we get to put that theory to the test!

I for one think long term Xavier will be fine. I'm less sure about Butler and Creighton. This is mainly because Xavier has proven they can recruit at this level while the other two have not.

That being said for this year there are too many question marks for me concerning xavier and after a down year last year I'm defaulting to picking the teams I do know over teams I do not. I think on Paper Xavier is 7th right now in the BE. Semaj is a great talent and we recruited him heavily to come to Georgetown, but his lack of a jump shot is a real weakness and I can see how D'Vauntes Smith Rivera was a better fit for us.

[XUFan09]

Do keep in mind that last off-season was Xavier's worst in recent memory. The returning star player was kicked off the team, and two highly rated freshmen were ruled ineligible. This year's team has those freshmen back to go with their normal recruiting class, along with a stud transfer becoming eligible.

There are enough new players who will need to mesh together that this team will have some slip-ups in the early going, but by conference time they should be clicking well. Because of this, I bet they finish ahead of one or two teams who get a better seed in the tournament.

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[GIMMFD]

We have some good pieces, Semaj is well.. Semaj, and the additions of Reynolds and Myles will definitely help, Creighton will definitely be good, Marquette and Georgetown are always solid, I think we could be top three, but it depends on how quickly everyone gels, we finally have decent bench depth too, may not have to play Landon Amos extensive minutes!!

[Milhouse]

I think this is going to be the most interesting basketball season in a number of years. Major Conference fans love to diminish mid major schools and state that sure in a one off game in the NCAA tournament or OOC a mid major team can compete and win, but if they were in a major conference the daily grind would wear them down and they would not be able to compete. And now we get to put that theory to the test!



Not too surprising that a Georgetown fan brings up mid Majors and March :jig:

[casualfan]

Not too surprising that a Georgetown fan brings up mid Majors and March :jig:

"How many final fours do you have" rebuttal in 3..2..1...

[Milhouse]

"How many final fours do you have" rebuttal in 3..2..1...

Have a friend that's a huge Georgetown Fan and would constantly hear these arguments.

Regardless glad to be in the same league with them now.

[casualfan]

Have a friend that's a huge Georgetown Fan and would constantly hear these arguments.

Regardless glad to be in the same league with them now.

Get ready to hear them a lot from opposing fan bases.

By my count us and Creighton are the only two conference members without a FF appearance on their resume.

Hopefully that doesn't last long.

[PMI]

Georgetown certainly has a very rich basketball history and plenty of banners to prove it. But man, there last few seasons have ended in embarrassing fashion. You would think they'd be prepared for the "sneak up on you" underdog by now, but it seems they're more hellbent on just outdoing themselves each year.

[hoyahooligan]

The NCAA is mostly about luck and for a while we've been extremely unlucky. For most of the upsets (Davidson, Ohio, VCU, NC State, FGCU) those teams have gone on to make decent runs to validate their upsets. We keep getting under seeded teams that we match up poorly with. We should still win those games despite that fact, but the match ups have a lot to do with it. If we play any other 15 seed last year i'm sure we win. But it's still embarrassing and I won't argue otherwise. That being said a lot of Programs would love to be in our position. To be able to to be upset in the tournament you have to earn a high seed with your regular season and we've done that and had very successful regular seasons. Sooner or later we will break this curse and all will be forgotten with a single deep run.

[GoMuskies]

The NCAA is mostly about luck

No.

[PMI]

The NCAA is mostly about luck and for a while we've been extremely unlucky. For most of the upsets (Davidson, Ohio, VCU, NC State, FGCU) those teams have gone on to make decent runs to validate their upsets. We keep getting under seeded teams that we match up poorly with. We should still win those games despite that fact, but the match ups have a lot to do with it. If we play any other 15 seed last year i'm sure we win. But it's still embarrassing and I won't argue otherwise. That being said a lot of Programs would love to be in our position. To be able to to be upset in the tournament you have to earn a high seed with your regular season and we've done that and had very successful regular seasons. Sooner or later we will break this curse and all will be forgotten with a single deep run.

Mostly about luck? I get that matchups can be huge, but at the end of the day, when you routinely lose to low seeded, double digit underdogs in the first round, and some of those games by a LOT to boot, it's probably not just bad luck. Personally, I think JT3 is a pretty poor in-game coach. He can recruit in his backyard and nationally, which means he'll always have really good players, but I'd have to imagine that at a place like Georgetown, at some point they're not going to tolerate losing in the first round year after year.

[Milhouse]

About Luck? Come on man. That's just not true. JT3 has a proven streak of being outcoached and not prepared enough in the NCAAs. Just because a team goes on a run after beating you still doesn't validate losing to a 15 seed...I get what you're saying but end of the day the NCAA tournament is not luck.

If it is then please explain to me the Mid Majors that have won a national championship in the past 30 years? How many have either not been high seeds or come from a major conference?

[hoyahooligan]

The first 2 rounds are pretty much the luck of the draw in terms of match ups. To win a championship it takes more than just luck because you have a larger sample size. I mean I think the Georgetown case proves this. Last year we won the BE regular season and earned the #1 seed in the BET. That's over the course of a season. So JT3 can't coach? Because he lost in the first round of the tournament? So how did he win all those regular season games? So losing 5 games proves he can't coach but winning 20 + doesn't show he can?

Everyone is being influenced by and extremely small sample size of 5 games. JT3 is a great coach and not just for recruiting. Not all those games were the same. 1) Davidson was a total hose job by the Refs 2) VCU we had lost our starting PG and were playing a team who's philosophy is built on creating turnovers 3) NC State was a very talented team that underachieved in the regular season got hot at the right time and we lost by one possession. The other two were unexcuseable, Ohio: We were a bad defensive team and got exploited. I honestly do not know what happened with FGCU I've never gone back to watch the game. I know we played probably our worst game of the season.

JT3 has an 8-7 record in the NCAA tournament at Georgetown. That's 15 games all his coaching skill is being evaluated on. So if Georgetown goes to the Sweet 16 or beyond this year does it mean JT3 can suddenly coach again. JT3 has won 3 BE regular season titles in 9 years and made the NCAA tournament 7 of 9 years won the BET once and made the finals 2 other times. Yes we've had talent during that time, but not more than other teams in the BE yet we still win games? How can that be happening if JT3 cannot coach?

Talent and coaching wins out over the course of a season, but in 1 game anything can happen. Sometimes a team is just off. Sometimes the Refs influence the game with a bad call that puts a star player on the bench, a million different things can happen. It's not 100% luck, but it's a lot bigger influence than many of us would like to admit.

[PMI]

The first 2 rounds are pretty much the luck of the draw in terms of match ups. To win a championship it takes more than just luck because you have a larger sample size. I mean I think the Georgetown case proves this. Last year we won the BE regular season and earned the #1 seed in the BET. That's over the course of a season. So JT3 can't coach? Because he lost in the first round of the tournament? So how did he win all those regular season games? So losing 5 games proves he can't coach but winning 20 + doesn't show he can?

Everyone is being influenced by and extremely small sample size of 5 games. JT3 is a great coach and not just for recruiting. Not all those games were the same. 1) Davidson was a total hose job by the Refs 2) VCU we had lost our starting PG and were playing a team who's philosophy is built on creating turnovers 3) NC State was a very talented team that underachieved in the regular season got hot at the right time and we lost by one possession. The other two were unexcuseable, Ohio: We were a bad defensive team and got exploited. I honestly do not know what happened with FGCU I've never gone back to watch the game. I know we played probably our worst game of the season.

JT3 has an 8-7 record in the NCAA tournament at Georgetown. That's 15 games all his coaching skill is being evaluated on. So if Georgetown goes to the Sweet 16 or beyond this year does it mean JT3 can suddenly coach again. JT3 has won 3 BE regular season titles in 9 years and made the NCAA tournament 7 of 9 years won the BET once and made the finals 2 other times. Yes we've had talent during that time, but not more than other teams in the BE yet we still win games? How can that be happening if JT3 cannot coach?

Talent and coaching wins out over the course of a season, but in 1 game anything can happen. Sometimes a team is just off. Sometimes the Refs influence the game with a bad call that puts a star player on the bench, a million different things can happen. It's not 100% luck, but it's a lot bigger influence than many of us would like to admit.

There's a difference between "luck of the draw in terms of matchups" and just plain luck. Perhaps Georgetown was rewarded for their past several high seeds with an unfavorable matchup, but but if that's the case, then JT3 isn't earning his paycheck come March. You have to be prepared for the competition, and you can't afford to play one of your worst games at that time of the year. Trust me, I know that luck is a part of sports, and some people around here think they're above admitting that, but there's no way you can make a valid excuse that you got unlucky because the matchup wasn't favorable. Luck is hard to quantify but sometimes you can watch a game and see that a team is catching a lot of breaks. It happens. It is certainly not the only reason that Georgetown has been routinely getting upset in the first round.

As for JT3, I do think he's a good coach, generally, but he is not a great in-game adjuster. He has his system and he sticks to it. If things are going well, it works great. If things aren't going well, Georgetown usually can't make up for it by making the right adjustments, in my opinion. In March, it's certainly about the players stepping up and playing their best, but sometimes you run into a tough game that requires some in-game adjustments, and the best coaches are the ones who can respond it such circumstances. I don't feel like JT3 has proven he's great in that regard, and in fact has been anywhere from average to bad at times.

[GoMuskies]

Rick Pitino, Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self and John Calipari sure have been lucky a lot over the years. Bobby Knight and John Wooden were also a couple of lucky dudes. Denny Crum, too.

I'd mention Brad Stevens, but I don't want to trigger a PMI rant given his mental state what with the Redskins being even with the Jaguars and all.

[XUFan09]

Hooligan seems to be conflating the fact that the tournament involves a noticeable bit of luck with it being "mostly about luck." Those are huge differences in degree.

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[Milhouse]

That Final Four is great, and obviously we at Xavier would love that. But he's 2-5 in the last 5 years in the NCAA tournament. And This will be his what? 10th season? He's clearly got his system and guys in place. And lord knows he's had some great talent over the last 5 years (Hibbert, Porter, etc...).

I'm just saying from a personal stand point I wouldn't be too pleased, and with an institution as deeply entrenched with BBall history as Georgetown I gotta imagine his seat is getting a bit warm.

We live in a what have you done for me lately world of college athletics. Ben Howland was let go just 5 years after going to back to back TO back final fours....

Do you also consider Notre Dame unlucky in March? Or can Brey not coach in March? Honestly some people just can't....


As I said, nothing but respect for the Georgetown program and the great players that have come through it. That said it's certainly helped my personal bracket picking against them going to the 2nd weekend these last 3 years...

[GoMuskies]

Ben Howland had some other issues going on, and no one should EVER have UCLA teams as bad as his were.

I'm pretty sure JTIII is on about as rock solid a ground as a coach can be on at Georgetown.

[nuts4xu]

Everyone is being influenced by and extremely small sample size of 5 games. JT3 is a great coach and not just for recruiting. Not all those games were the same. 1) Davidson was a total hose job by the Refs 2) VCU we had lost our starting PG and were playing a team who's philosophy is built on creating turnovers 3) NC State was a very talented team that underachieved in the regular season got hot at the right time and we lost by one possession. The other two were unexcuseable, Ohio: We were a bad defensive team and got exploited. I honestly do not know what happened with FGCU I've never gone back to watch the game. I know we played probably our worst game of the season.



Welcome to the board! We are very glad to be in the Big East, and look forward to some great games against your Hoyas in the coming years.

The above comments scream of excuses. I believe luck plays a role in the tournament, but it is not ALL about luck. I think to win a NC you need to get a few breaks, some favorable match ups, and have the ball bounce your way a few extra times.

I recall the NCAA tournament game we played against Georgetown during Allen Iverson's freshman year. We had a team with basically no bench, and went about 7 deep. The weekend before the game, 2 of our regular players got into a fight in a bar, and the late Skip Prosser suspends the 2 seniors for the game against Georgetown. We had to play a walk on in the first half, yet we still only lost by less than 5 points. This was before JT3 was coaching, but it was still fortunate or "lucky" for the Hoyas. The next game, they played Weber State who upset a 2 or 3 seed, and blew them out on the way to the sweet 16.

You want to take a larger sample size, and I agree. Look at the history of Georgetown in the tournament and I think you will find some fortunate match ups and lucky breaks, in addition to the bad luck you cite above.

[GoMuskies]

Georgetown needed a tip-in at the buzzer to beat Weber State that year.

[nuts4xu]

Georgetown needed a tip-in at the buzzer to beat Weber State that year.

Talk about lucky!

[GoMuskies]

It was Butler-esque.

[PMI]

I'm pretty sure JTIII is on about as rock solid a ground as a coach can be on at Georgetown.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I'm not suggesting his seat is burning hot, but knowing enough Georgetown people, I wouldn't expect them to tolerate too many more massive tournament disappointments, regardless of his recruiting and who his dad is. I think that when you make a habit of losing in the first round with high seeded teams, you get to the point where you're one sub-par regular season away from your seat getting hot. It's hard to justify firing a coach if his teams remain a consistent presence in the top 20 and earn good seeds (and you avoid serious issues), but if they have a rough down year like we just had on top of that, he doesn't have the cushion that Mack has to fall back on, which is a good tournament resume. Coaches at big time programs get hired and fired based on what their teams do in March. JT3 is not every Georgetown fan's favorite for sure.

[HuskyMuskie]

This is going to be worse than the 'firedupkaren' charade a few years back.

[HuskyMuskie]

It was Butler-esque.

If you ask a Butler fan, National Title game runs have ZERO to do with luck.

[XUFan09]

By the way, no amount of luck is enough to justify losing three straight years in the first round to teams seeded more than 10 spots lower. Do you know how rare that is? It has never happened in the history of the NCAA tournament.

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[hoyahooligan]

Rick Pitino, Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self and John Calipari sure have been lucky a lot over the years. Bobby Knight and John Wooden were also a couple of lucky dudes. Denny Crum, too.

I'd mention Brad Stevens, but I don't want to trigger a PMI rant given his mental state what with the Redskins being even with the Jaguars and all.

Bill Self has a number of early exits from the tournament and upsets by midmajors as well. But a run or two after those upsets. Puts them in the rear view. Hopefully this will happen for us.

I'm not trying to say JT3 is blameless and I agree that JT3's in game changes is one of his weaker areas, but I think Match ups and general sports luck combine to be the majority of why a higher seeded team loses to a lower seed team. That's what I'm trying to say not why a 1 seed beats a 16 seed, but when upsets happen I think it's fairly obvious that luck has a large part of it. I mean I think most people would agree that if Georgetown Played a best 2 our of 3 or a longer series against the teams that upset them that Georgetown would likely win.

[hoyahooligan]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I'm not suggesting his seat is burning hot, but knowing enough Georgetown people, I wouldn't expect them to tolerate too many more massive tournament disappointments, regardless of his recruiting and who his dad is. I think that when you make a habit of losing in the first round with high seeded teams, you get to the point where you're one sub-par regular season away from your seat getting hot. It's hard to justify firing a coach if his teams remain a consistent presence in the top 20 and earn good seeds (and you avoid serious issues), but if they have a rough down year like we just had on top of that, he doesn't have the cushion that Mack has to fall back on, which is a good tournament resume. Coaches at big time programs get hired and fired based on what their teams do in March. JT3 is not every Georgetown fan's favorite for sure.

I feel like most of the fan base are happy with JT3 and would not even think about replacing him. We're not satisfied with his tournament performance but we are happy with everything else in the program including those BE championships.

There is a minority that is much more unhappy and would like him fired but they seem to only appear in March and are silent the rest of the season when we're racking up wins.


By the way, no amount of luck is enough to justify losing three straight years in the first round to teams seeded more than 10 spots lower. Do you know how rare that is? It has never happened in the history of the NCAA tournament.

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Good thing we haven't done that. We lost in the round of 32 in 2012. :smile:

[XUFan09]

Lol.

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[casualfan]

The CBS writers weigh in.
(http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/23932001/college-basketball-preview-conference-predictions)


Matt Norlander has us 5th. Everyone else has us 6th.

[Juice]

The CBS writers weigh in.
(http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/23932001/college-basketball-preview-conference-predictions)


Matt Norlander has us 5th. Everyone else has us 6th.

I have no idea how Palm has Butler at 5th.

[blueblob06]

Wow. If somone has Butler at 5th, I refuse to even open the article.

[GoMuskies]

Butler has a shot at being the 5th best team....in Indiana.

[casualfan]

Other than the obvious will numbers guy Palm putting Butler 5th I was surprised everyone has Providence so low.

I think they have a great shot to finish in the top 5.

[More Cowbell]

ESPN: 1. Creighton | 2. Georgetown | 3. Marquette | 4. Villanova | 5. St. John's | 6. Butler | 7. Providence | 8. Xavier | 9. Seton Hall | 10. DePaul

Is ESPN's coverage really this bad?

[PMI]

ESPN: 1. Creighton | 2. Georgetown | 3. Marquette | 4. Villanova | 5. St. John's | 6. Butler | 7. Providence | 8. Xavier | 9. Seton Hall | 10. DePaul

Is ESPN's coverage really this bad?

Just lazy is all. I feel like anyone who still considers ESPN a reasonable source for sports news is beyond any repair I can help with. I use it for fantasy leagues and I watch it when there are games that I care about on. Oh, and the occasional 30 for 30. Everything else is total garbage.

[GoMuskies]

I like ESPN's gametrackers.

[JTG]

ESPN: 1. Creighton | 2. Georgetown | 3. Marquette | 4. Villanova | 5. St. John's | 6. Butler | 7. Providence | 8. Xavier | 9. Seton Hall | 10. DePaul

Is ESPN's coverage really this bad?

Actually I think Nos. 1,2,3 are close, could finish in any order. 4 & 5 a toss up, V or SJU, in either order. That said I would have us and Prov. in a horse race for #6, and the rest wherever.

[casualfan]

ESPN: 1. Creighton | 2. Georgetown | 3. Marquette | 4. Villanova | 5. St. John's | 6. Butler | 7. Providence | 8. Xavier | 9. Seton Hall | 10. DePaul

Is ESPN's coverage really this bad?

do you have a link? i'd love to know who attached their name to this, but i can't seem to find it anywhere.

[More Cowbell]

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9682634/2013-14-college-basketball-preview-butler-bulldogs

[PMI]

Time for our annual beer betting. Anyone who doesn't think Xavier finishes in the top half of the Big East, place your wagers. This is going to be easy drinking.

[XavierGrad]

This league is going to be fun! Lots of schools that are used to being top of their conference every year...gonna be some dogfights!

[Mad_Ewok]

ESPN: 1. Creighton | 2. Georgetown | 3. Marquette | 4. Villanova | 5. St. John's | 6. Butler | 7. Providence | 8. Xavier | 9. Seton Hall | 10. DePaul

Is ESPN's coverage really this bad?

Seeing this poll drove me to post. I've followed the Valley closely for the last few years, and I can confidently say there is no way in hell Creighton will finish top 3. Greg McDermott takes the Mike D'antoni approach on defense, meaning NONE. They just try to outscore their opponents. That worked in the Valley where the scorers aren't as elite, but certainly not in the Big East. Furthermore, losing Gregory Echenique means they have no anchor in the middle, just a bunch of 3 point chucking softie bigs.

And I hope you're all ready for the whiney-bitch duo that is the McDermott family. Doug cries about every call because he lives at the free throw line and daddy backs him up.

[waggy]

I like the Mad Ewok.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

I voted 6th, but really believe you could make a case for them finishing anywhere from 4th to 7th. Above that is pie-in-the-sky and below that is illogical.

If I had to place a wager on predicted order of finish, it would be this:

1) Marquette
2) Georgetown
3) Creighton
4) St. John's
5) Villanova
6) Xavier
7) Providence
8) Seton Hall
9) Butler
10) DePaul

[Titanxman04]

I think our team is still young. I also think that it could take a bit for us to adjust to this new conference. Not a whole season by any means, but certainly there are some bumps along the way. There's a five game stretch where we play four road games against Georgetown, Marquette, and two others, broken up with the home game against DePaul. That is a nasty bit of games there.

I could see sixth place being where X ends up. The question would remain, how many bids does this conference bring with them?

[PMI]

I voted 6th, but really believe you could make a case for them finishing anywhere from 4th to 7th. Above that is pie-in-the-sky and below that is illogical.

If I had to place a wager on predicted order of finish, it would be this:

1) Marquette
2) Georgetown
3) Creighton
4) St. John's
5) Villanova
6) Xavier
7) Providence
8) Seton Hall
9) Butler
10) DePaul

If you think that Xavier finishing 3rd is pie in the sky, I would argue you're illogical. Some of you guys need to wake up and smell the glove.

Seriously, most of you guys are ready to concede that Creighton, St. John's, and Villanova are just hands down better than us? What a bunch of softies.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

I think our team is still young. I also think that it could take a bit for us to adjust to this new conference. Not a whole season by any means, but certainly there are some bumps along the way. There's a five game stretch where we play four road games against Georgetown, Marquette, and two others, broken up with the home game against DePaul. That is a nasty bit of games there.

I could see sixth place being where X ends up. The question would remain, how many bids does this conference bring with them?

It seems like the debate typically focuses on, while not absolute, needing to be .500 in your league for real consideration. 6th place in the league will be dangerously close to being under .500.

[casualfan]

I think our team is still young. I also think that it could take a bit for us to adjust to this new conference. Not a whole season by any means, but certainly there are some bumps along the way. There's a five game stretch where we play four road games against Georgetown, Marquette, and two others, broken up with the home game against DePaul. That is a nasty bit of games there.

I could see sixth place being where X ends up. The question would remain, how many bids does this conference bring with them?

I don't think 6th place would get it done.

Obviously a lot of factors, but I'm not sure 6th makes the dance.

[Milhouse]

I'm not sure 5th makes the dance...depends a lot on the strength of other conferences and how all the BE teams do in OOC play as well.

[Titanxman04]

All dpeends on how we play OOC then. If we have solid wins against G-Town or Nova and then drop the ball against a St. John's or a Seton Hall, then I could see us being 5th or 6th but still making the dance on the overall record. It's not likely but it is certainly possible.

[PMI]

I can't handle all this loser talk. Since when do we shoot for 5th or 6th? We have the best player in the league and a strong roster overall. You guys are ready to put teams like Creighton, Villanova and St. John's CLEARLY above us? You guys are not gangsters. Not by a long shot.

[Titanxman04]

"I can't handle all this loser talk. Since when do we shoot for 5th or 6th? We have the best player in the league and a strong roster overall. You guys are ready to put teams like Creighton, Villanova and St. John's CLEARLY above us? You guys are not gangsters. Not by a long shot." (This is what we do now, right?)

I'm all about us finishing in the top 3. You know I'd love for that to happen. But the team meshing together, the redshirts getting up to game speed, etc.. It could be a bit. I'm just trying to prepare myself for a less than stellar season. I eblieve we should win every game we play. I think we have a legitimate chance every night. However, shots miss, passed are dropped, assignments are lost and games end with the scoreboard not in our favor.

And for the record, PMI...seeing as I know you, I wouldn't call you gangster either! Ha.

[GoMuskies]

Gangstas, people. Gangstas.

[Milhouse]

After sitting in the stands last year for all of those heart breaking losses I'm just trying to be cautiously optimistic.

PMI is right. Maj is the best player in the league. In a lot of circumstances in College BBall the team with the best player wins.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

I can't handle all this loser talk. Since when do we shoot for 5th or 6th? We have the best player in the league and a strong roster overall. You guys are ready to put teams like Creighton, Villanova and St. John's CLEARLY above us? You guys are not gangsters. Not by a long shot.

I know you are a self-proclaimed Homer, and I love that, but we most assuredly don't have the best player in the league. I fully believe Creighton will be an 8th place team next year, but for now, they (and their [arguably] Wooden Award Candidate) have to be predicted to be above us.

As I said in my initial post, before being called illogical, I think you could put 4-7 in a jar and pull them out in any order. I don't think we can crack the top 3 this year (too much newness, lack of depth beyond Reynolds in the front-court, etc.), but I think everything below that is possible.

While I think Creighton is "CLEARLY" better than we are this year, I certainly wouldn't say that about Villanova or St. John's (or Providence).

Hope I'm wrong and Chris is wearing a net necklace in March, but either way, I'll enjoy the journey.

[PMI]

Gangstas, people. Gangstas.

GangSTER. I'm Sicilian. We pronounce the word. And it's our word. I find it offensive that the African Americans have taken it as their own. Taking words from other cultures and using them in your own way is offensive.


I know you are a self-proclaimed Homer, and I love that, but we most assuredly don't have the best player in the league. I fully believe Creighton will be an 8th place team next year, but for now, they (and their [arguably] Wooden Award Candidate) have to be predicted to be above us.

As I said in my initial post, before being called illogical, I think you could put 4-7 in a jar and pull them out in any order. I don't think we can crack the top 3 this year (too much newness, lack of depth beyond Reynolds in the front-court, etc.), but I think everything below that is possible.

While I think Creighton is "CLEARLY" better than we are this year, I certainly wouldn't say that about Villanova or St. John's (or Providence).

Hope I'm wrong and Chris is wearing a net necklace in March, but either way, I'll enjoy the journey.

All I can say is that I'm jealous of you, because it's going to be a lot of fun to be as surprised as you're about to be. I can counter your assurance with an assurance of the opposite variety. Semaj by all means should be the best player on the floor every night. He's the best prospect in the league, and has a golden opportunity to be THE best player in the league. Of this I have no doubt. Mad Ewok makes a good point. Of the newcomers, Creighton has the most difficult transition to make. The idea that they're just going to seamlessly cruise in to the conference and contend for a title seems to be a reach to me. I think they will finish around 5th or 6th. To say they will be CLEARLY better than us seems very ESPNish, and I strongly disagree with it.

Yes, I am a Xavier homer, through and through. But I'm also pretty realistic. I thought we were going to suck last year at this time, and as it turned out, we were mediocre. I understand that we will take time to get the pieces in place, figure out our lineups, etc., but when Chris Mack has talent, his teams perform. The reason I'm able to be a homer is because we've been good for a long time, and that didn't just disappear with one down year. This team is talented and deep, especially in the back court. We have the horses, especially in comparison to some of these teams you're putting in the jar with us. I'm not guaranteeing anything, but I do find it very discouraging that all our fans are shooting for a middle of the pack finish. I thought this was Xavier! I thought this was America!

[X-band '01]

GangSTER. I'm Sicilian. We pronounce the word. And it's our word. I find it offensive that the African Americans have taken it as their own. Taking words from other cultures and using them in your own way is offensive.



Note to self: do not argue with PMI if death is on the line.

[X-band '01]

Nor argue with Muskieman - another famed Sicilian who rules MM with his own iron fist.

[paulxu]

GangSTER. I'm Sicilian. We pronounce the word. And it's our word. I find it offensive that the African Americans have taken it as their own. Taking words from other cultures and using them in your own way is offensive.

I'm down with the Washington Pellirossa

[NY44]

I really don't know where X will finish, but I'll go with 3rd. There's too many unknown factors on our team and even within the conference for me get my mind around. Most teams aren't going to have an answer for Semaj, but the real question is whether or not we have a back-up answer for when he's off. That really depends on the new guys.

I have full faith that Marquette will finish first and that Depaul will finish last. In between is a crapshoot. I really don't know what to expect from St. John's, Villanova and Providence. I will say that I am confident we can beat anyone in this conference any day. All and all, I like our team, I like our match ups, and I love the uncertainty. This is going to be a lot more fun then the A10 ever was.

[kyxu]

This is going to be a lot more fun then the A10 ever was.

Yes.

[Charlesbt4]

I'm with PMI - we're winning this conference.

Also, anyone that believes Doug McDermott is the best player in this conference should consider that he's feasted on teams like Indiana State and Evansville for the past three years. Hell, in 2009-2010, Xavier played him so tough that ESPN simply lists his stats for that game as "Did not play or did not accumulate any stats." We didn't even let that bitch to get off the bench.

[bleedXblue]

I'm with PMI - we're winning this conference.

Also, anyone that believes Doug McDermott is the best player in this conference should consider that he's feasted on teams like Indiana State and Evansville for the past three years. Hell, in 2009-2010, Xavier played him so tough that ESPN simply lists his stats for that game as "Did not play or did not accumulate any stats." We didn't even let that bitch to get off the bench.

He's pretty darn good. I'd take him in a heartbeat on our team.

I expect his numbers to obviously be down from last year, but he'll still be in the running for BE POY.

[hoyahooligan]

He's pretty darn good. I'd take him in a heartbeat on our team.

I expect his numbers to obviously be down from last year, but he'll still be in the running for BE POY.

Remember Creighton has played a number of Major conference teams in the OOC and NCAA and his numbers have still impressed:

Last year: 30pts vs. Wisconsin, 29 pts vs. Arizona St, 34pts @ Cal, 27pts @ Nebraska, 27 vs. Cinci in NCAAs, 21pts vs. Duke in the NCAAs
the previous year: 25 vs. Iowa, 25 @ SanDiego St, 24 vs. Nebraska, 27 vs. Northwestern, 16 vs Alabama in NCAA, 20 vs. UNC in NCAA

[casualfan]

Here is one media member's poll:

Brendan Prunty ‏@BrendanPrunty 14m
My Big East preseason prediction: Marquette, Creighton, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Xavier, Providence, Seton Hall, Butler, DePaul.

This is about what I have, but i'd maybe flip G'town and Creighton (I think creighton will be better at the end of the year, but they will have some adjustments to make) and then I think us, st. john's and providence will finish 5-7, but what the order will be i have no idea. Each of us have young pieces to incorporate and a lot will ride on that.

[PMI]

Remember Creighton has played a number of Major conference teams in the OOC and NCAA and his numbers have still impressed:

Last year: 30pts vs. Wisconsin, 29 pts vs. Arizona St, 34pts @ Cal, 27pts @ Nebraska, 27 vs. Cinci in NCAAs, 21pts vs. Duke in the NCAAs
the previous year: 25 vs. Iowa, 25 @ SanDiego St, 24 vs. Nebraska, 27 vs. Northwestern, 16 vs Alabama in NCAA, 20 vs. UNC in NCAA

I have no doubt McDermott will get his numbers, but I do think that sometimes they're a little misleading. I'd be interested to see some of the more advanced stats for Creighton over the last couple years, particularly some sorts of defensive efficiency numbers. I don't think the style of trying to just outscore your opponent every night at the expense of tough, physical, lock down defense, is going to win the league. Granted, there are lots of additions/subtractions and it's a very different conference than before, but I think the Big East will continue to be a conference where toughness on the defensive end is required. I think Creighton is in for more of an adjustment than the other new teams in this regard. Creighton may be timing it right in the sense that they're entering the league in a year where their team is returning good players and appears strong, but they will also have the worst traveling schedule/distances by far, the biggest adjustment from league to league, and probably the biggest target on their backs among the new teams. I don't think it will be a seamless transition, and I think it's rather lazy that every single prediction just kind of tosses them into the 2-3 range because they're returning one very productive player on one end of the floor.

[casualfan]

I have no doubt McDermott will get his numbers, but I do think that sometimes they're a little misleading. I'd be interested to see some of the more advanced stats for Creighton over the last couple years, particularly some sorts of defensive efficiency numbers. I don't think the style of trying to just outscore your opponent every night at the expense of tough, physical, lock down defense, is going to win the league. Granted, there are lots of additions/subtractions and it's a very different conference than before, but I think the Big East will continue to be a conference where toughness on the defensive end is required. I think Creighton is in for more of an adjustment than the other new teams in this regard. Creighton may be timing it right in the sense that they're entering the league in a year where their team is returning good players and appears strong, but they will also have the worst traveling schedule/distances by far, the biggest adjustment from league to league, and probably the biggest target on their backs among the new teams. I don't think it will be a seamless transition, and I think it's rather lazy that every single prediction just kind of tosses them into the 2-3 range because they're returning one very productive player on one end of the floor.

Creighton was 59th in adjusted defense last year according to Ken Pomeroy. We were 76th.

If you go back further they have been much worse.

[PMI]

Creighton was 59th in adjusted defense last year according to Ken Pomeroy. We were 76th.

If you go back further they have been much worse.

59th is pretty average for a team that is supposed to be good. We all know what we went through last year, but we are a totally different roster now. Actually, I thought we played a bit over our heads defensively last year. No reason to think we shouldn't improve with the depth we have now. I'm willing to bet Mack puts a lot more focus on that end of the floor than McDermott does at CU, based on their histories.

[hoyahooligan]

I have no doubt McDermott will get his numbers, but I do think that sometimes they're a little misleading. I'd be interested to see some of the more advanced stats for Creighton over the last couple years, particularly some sorts of defensive efficiency numbers. I don't think the style of trying to just outscore your opponent every night at the expense of tough, physical, lock down defense, is going to win the league. Granted, there are lots of additions/subtractions and it's a very different conference than before, but I think the Big East will continue to be a conference where toughness on the defensive end is required. I think Creighton is in for more of an adjustment than the other new teams in this regard. Creighton may be timing it right in the sense that they're entering the league in a year where their team is returning good players and appears strong, but they will also have the worst traveling schedule/distances by far, the biggest adjustment from league to league, and probably the biggest target on their backs among the new teams. I don't think it will be a seamless transition, and I think it's rather lazy that every single prediction just kind of tosses them into the 2-3 range because they're returning one very productive player on one end of the floor.

I do think Creighton will have a big adjustment, but I think McDermott will be fine it's the rest of the players that are a concern.

Here are Doug's offensive efficiency from games last year against major conference foes:

Wisconsin: 104
Arizona St: 128
Nebraska: 107
California: 146
Cincinnati: 118
Duke: 93

Wichita St: 132, 174, 91 included since they did go to the final 4.

[casualfan]

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 4m
#Xavier men picked 7th in Big East preseason coaches' poll. Semaj Christon on preseason all-conf first team.

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 2m
Big East men's poll: 1. Marquette, 2. Georgetown, 3. Creighton, 4. Villanova, 5. St. John's, 6. Providence, 7. #Xavier.

Shannon Russell ‏@slrussell 1m
8. Seton Hall, 9. Butler. 10. DePaul. Marquette received 5 first-place votes; GT and SJU 2 each. Creighton 1.

[Masterofreality]

Yeah, 7th in the poll.

Obviously there is a discrepancy in this board and the coaches.

Time to "sneak up" on people.

[casualfan]

59th is pretty average for a team that is supposed to be good. We all know what we went through last year, but we are a totally different roster now. Actually, I thought we played a bit over our heads defensively last year. No reason to think we shouldn't improve with the depth we have now. I'm willing to bet Mack puts a lot more focus on that end of the floor than McDermott does at CU, based on their histories.

We've been a pretty average team defensively then the past few years.

2012- 56th
2011- 59th
2010- 39th

[Milhouse]

Welp there's motivaiton. Let's get it.

[bobbiemcgee]

BE Media Day pics. Semaj and Lainee looking sharp:

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/photo-gallery/big-east-media-day

[Mad_Ewok]

I would be more concerned about Grant Gibbs than Dougy. If you thought Cheik Mobdji (sp?) was dirty, just wait until you see this kid. Tries to get into his man's head by talking smack to provoke them into a T. Saw it firsthead 2 years ago when they played my Redbirds in Normal. And I'm sure you've all seen the famous wink after he took a swipe at John Henson's bad wrist in the NCAA tournament.

Very good passer, great at breaking down the D. Very cerebral player. Former Gonzaga player; bitched about Mark Few on Twitter before he transferred out.

Whoever brought Jahenns Manigat up, he is a non-issue.

[paulxu]

I'm not an insider, and I know there are rules for posting stuff from protected websites.
But can anyone who has access to this at least say "OK" for X, or "not OK?"

This guy looks like he has a lot of data that gets crunched to come up with his stuff.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9859613/projections-all-351-division-teams-college-basketball

[hoyahooligan]

http://kenpom.com/conf.php?c=BE

Here are kenpom's preseason BE ratings.

Here's a break down of how he calculates his ratings: http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/pre_season_ratings_2014

But any way has Xavier 8th in the BE finishing 8-10 in the league. He expects it to be very balanced foing form 12-6 in first and 6-12 in last place with all 10 teams in the top 85 of his ratings.

He also has the BE rated 2nd behind the B10 but ahead of the ACC and AAC.

[CinciX12]

BE Media Day pics. Semaj and Lainee looking sharp:

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/photo-gallery/big-east-media-day

Doug McDermott looks like a guy that if people in Nebraska had to take a poll on what they wanted their favorite basketball player to look like he would be the top 3 choices all rolled into one.

[RealDeal]

Doug McDermott looks like a guy that if people in Nebraska had to take a poll on what they wanted their favorite basketball player to look like he would be the top 3 choices all rolled into one.

Tall?

[CinciX12]

White, Tall, and White.

[GoMuskies]

White, Tall, and White.

That's not just Nebraska. That's white people everywhere.

[CinciX12]

I'm so white I'm transparent and I don't want any white people on my basketball team.

[casualfan]

I'm so white I'm transparent and I don't want any white people on my basketball team.

Good thing Bluiett is not white. Your head might explode.

Are you telling me that if Mcdermott wanted to take a post grad year and transfer to X you'd be against it?

[CinciX12]

I think we reached our quota of preppy white kids with Brian Walsh and Brad Redford for the next decade.

He could come say hey for a year though.

[Chalmers0]

That's not just Nebraska. That's white people everywhere.

The Xavier fans I sat near during Musketeer Madness certainly did love Stainbrook, who fits that criteria perfectly.

[XUFan09]

The Xavier fans I sat near during Musketeer Madness certainly did love Stainbrook, who fits that criteria perfectly.

And it definitely was a contributing factor to why Redford was so beloved.

[MADXSTER]

Hats off to the following who predicted the 3rd place finish in the Big East.

AleXavier, Blobbinupanddownthecourt, blueblob06, bobbiemcgee, brownlavender, DC Muskie, Jweinka, More Cowbell, Muskeagle, Pluto, Porkopolis, RealDeal, slysyl, TaipeiMuskie, UnCaged, sfldan, X-man, xu82, XUBT, xuflash, XUglow, XUOHTX

I predicted a 4th place finish.

[GoMuskies]

I predicted fourth. I also expected Georgetown and Marquette to suck a lot less (and Villanova to suck quite a bit more!).

[bourbonman]

I just voted. I think I got it right! :biggrin:

[LadyMuskie]

I didn't vote apparently. But knowing me, and knowing my propensity for voting with my heart in cases like this, I would have said 1st place.

[nokoolaid]

I am excited about the arrival of some SHOOTERS and if X had some of these this season the results would have been different. I am picking them to finish first if Christon comes back-third if not.